Hi guys
I'm not a programmer by any means, nor do I know anything about developing software, so take this idea with a grain of salt.
The issue I notice from time to time with my PPC6800 is slowdown from lack of ram (or that I haven't closed the apps and they're hogging the ram). My phone only has 64mb....so this got me thinking.... Vista has a feature called Readyboost which uses any flash based USB key to act like virtual ram (or a pagefile).
SO, how feasable would it be to create software that would coule read/write off the microSD card as if it were ram? Basically a MobileReadyboost as it were.
Discuss amongst yourselves =)
PS: Forgive me if something like this already exists for our platforms...but I haven't seen it.
SD cards read and write slow...
What if deleating the extended rom partition (located in ram, right?) and using that for a pagefile instead?
most people don't seem to use the extended rom when cooking. why not just make it usefull?????!!!!!
S.V.I said:
SD cards read and write slow...
What if deleating the extended rom partition (located in ram, right?) and using that for a pagefile instead?
most people don't seem to use the extended rom when cooking. why not just make it usefull?????!!!!!
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SD cards can be slow, but there are some models that are faster. Granted they cost more and are a little harder to find, because they are aimed photo people. But yeah.
extended rom in cooked roms is generally used for extra storage anyway so it isnt like it isnt being used
"SD cards can be slow, but there are some models that are faster. Granted they cost more and are a little harder to find, because they are aimed photo people. But yeah."
problem is that today it's not just sdcards which is the bottleneck the sd interface itself on the cpu is slow too
Related
I'm currently using a TP2 and I don't have enough RAM. Part of the reason and I know it's my fault is the customization of the phone with different toys and apps. This is my fault not the phone. So far the phone is working flawlessly.
What I have is over a gig and a half of a 2 gig memory card in my phone completely free. What I would like to do is use the spare memory as RAM, allowing the phone all the necessary space it needs.
If I keep going on this thought, would rebuilding the OS with the sd card as the primary install location work as well. This would give us gigs of space to install and gigs or RAM to work with esp if you have a 6 or 8 gig sd card.
Any thoughts?
slight22 said:
I'm currently using a TP2 and I don't have enough RAM. Part of the reason and I know it's my fault is the customization of the phone with different toys and apps. This is my fault not the phone. So far the phone is working flawlessly.
What I have is over a gig and a half of a 2 gig memory card in my phone completely free. What I would like to do is use the spare memory as RAM, allowing the phone all the necessary space it needs.
If I keep going on this thought, would rebuilding the OS with the sd card as the primary install location work as well. This would give us gigs of space to install and gigs or RAM to work with esp if you have a 6 or 8 gig sd card.
Any thoughts?
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Click to collapse
You can't (as the end-user) use a storage card as Virtual RAM.
However, I believe that WinMo 6.5 does allow for virtual RAM to be used through the internal storage, but that will require you cooking the ROM yourself, etc. I've never messed around with that though, since the device I cooked for didn't have a native nk.exe. The TP2 does, however, so you can experiment away.
And remember, RAM = Program Memory, the space where currently running programs temporarily store their information for quick read access (Random Access Module).
Don't confuse it with Storage Space, which is where data is permanently stored. I think you understand the difference.
Thank you for the benefit of the doubt lol. Yes I do understand the difference thats why i was thinking if the SD memory could in essence be used to build the OS, because it is no different that the ROM in the sole exception that it's easier to remove.
But also in that same sense (and this might be a stretch) Vista is capable of using a removable memory stick as virtual ram to speed up your PC's functionality. If that is possible there, and you've got a 8 gig SD card in your phone, splitting it off for virtual RAM is hopefully possible.
Maybe even think of it this was. 9 gig SD card, almost like partitioning a hard drive. 3 setup for virtual RAM, 3 setup as storage, 3 setup for ROM access to load the OS.
Or am i thinking WAY to far outside the box of possibilities?
slight22 said:
Thank you for the benefit of the doubt lol. Yes I do understand the difference thats why i was thinking if the SD memory could in essence be used to build the OS, because it is no different that the ROM in the sole exception that it's easier to remove.
But also in that same sense (and this might be a stretch) Vista is capable of using a removable memory stick as virtual ram to speed up your PC's functionality. If that is possible there, and you've got a 8 gig SD card in your phone, splitting it off for virtual RAM is hopefully possible.
Maybe even think of it this was. 9 gig SD card, almost like partitioning a hard drive. 3 setup for virtual RAM, 3 setup as storage, 3 setup for ROM access to load the OS.
Or am i thinking WAY to far outside the box of possibilities?
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Click to collapse
Eh, this thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=544445) will have all and enough information for you
Post 2 discusses Virtual Memory. Yea, I don't know what all that mumbo-jumbo means, since I never cooked for one of the newer, nk.exe WM6.5 compatible devices. But you'll find all the info on the new WM6.5 ROM's and cooking it, etc, on that thread. Enjoy the hefty reading!
According to the specs the phone comes with 576mb of ram, yet when I got my new phone it only had 140mb available, which seems to me that you lose around 75% of the memory advertised before you actually get the phone.
Anyone know what is using up all this memory
walkerx said:
According to the specs the phone comes with 576mb of ram, yet when I got my new phone it only had 140mb available, which seems to me that you lose around 75% of the memory advertised before you actually get the phone.
Anyone know what is using up all this memory
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Android is using it. It doesn't RUN from ROM, no modern OS does that. ROM is merely where it's stored, it run's in RAM.
thanks for the response, i understand it doesn't run from ROM but just couldn't believe that you lose 75% of the ram.
walkerx said:
thanks for the response, i understand it doesn't run from ROM but just couldn't believe that you lose 75% of the ram.
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You don't lose 75% of anything, it's still there. You're using 75% of it!. A phone that uses 0% of it's RAM would be a real-fancy paper weight after all.
If you try to open an app and you don't have enough RAM to run it Android will close activities and apps until there is enough. Any half way decent modern OS acts this way.
75% usage is fine and normal, don't worry about.
Perhaps your phone is developing Alzheimer's?
Actually you guys are confusing a lot here!
The 140MB that are available are ROM memory. The rest of the 512MB is used by the system and Sense etc.
That's not much available, since apps can only be installed into those 140MB.
Of the 576MB RAM, the system also uses some of it. But there's more than 140MB available.
it is indeed the rom, however, being that a massive majority of android apps are less than 1.5 mb in size, and if programmed properly use the SD card for storage means, the likelyhood of most people ever having a problem is minute.
I've read people on these forums with 70 odd apps on their desire and they have no issues whatsoever.
it really is not an issue.
after upgrading from the G1 with only 70mb-80mb available for installing apps unless you used the sdcard for storage was just a shock to only see 140mb available on the desire.
Agreed, it definitely is a problem if you install an app like Google Earth (22meg) and a few large games you will soon run out. On my G1 with apps2sd I had over 200meg of apps installed.
Meh, and HTC put 8GB of internal memory in the Droid Incredible (basicly the US desire), really don't understand why they don't put some internal storage in all of these devices..
Guys is there a tool where I could see how many rom and ram memory is available to install apps.
rhedgehog said:
it is indeed the rom, however, being that a massive majority of android apps are less than 1.5 mb in size, and if programmed properly use the SD card for storage means, the likelyhood of most people ever having a problem is minute.
I've read people on these forums with 70 odd apps on their desire and they have no issues whatsoever.
it really is not an issue.
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I'd have to disagree with you I'm afraid - it really is an issue.
My Desire has about 80 apps installed, including Google Earth, Navigon satnav, and about 5 games. I have literally less than 10mb of ROM space left - not even enough for another game.
The space supplied on the ROM for apps is pathetic, and the sooner the Desire gets rooted (to enable apps2sd) the better.
EDIT: I've just realised I've repeated what other people said, and also may have come off like a douche - no offence intended!
Adding SD Storage does not help!
abats said:
Meh, and HTC put 8GB of internal memory in the Droid Incredible (basicly the US desire), really don't understand why they don't put some internal storage in all of these devices..
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When you think about it, this will make the new HTC Incredible (coming this year) with 8GB on board a big seller for HTC, do feel a little bit let down by HTC on this
I have to admit up until today when I got an "out of space" message I assumed apps were going on the SD Card, I'm really gutted about this. But in my heart I knew at some point went rooting was possible I would do it anyway.
sdemmery said:
When you think about it, this will make the new HTC Incredible (coming this year) with 8GB on board a big seller for HTC, do feel a little bit let down by HTC on this
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Afaik the 8GB onboard is as storage, not as ROM. So if android is still like today (only allowed application to be installed in ROM) those 8 GB can't be used as well. The main reason of this limitation is to prevent the piracy, but I read somewhere that there is a plan to add a function to store the encrypted application in the external storage. Hopefully that can be realized soon.
setspeed said:
EDIT: I've just realised I've repeated what other people said, and also may have come off like a douche - no offence intended!
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No worries. I probably sound like a douche most of the time, but after doing my job for as long as i have, i no longer really care. but no offence intended from my end either. i may be a grumpy sod, but i'm not an a-hole.
anyhoo, most people will get nowhere near 80 apps.
I've been on android since the magic and got nowhere near that yet. most people won't. but yeah, lets hope either HTC start putting more memory in the phones, or google just add pss2sd capability as standard.
either would solve this for those few people that it does effect.
abats said:
Meh, and HTC put 8GB of internal memory in the Droid Incredible (basicly the US desire), really don't understand why they don't put some internal storage in all of these devices..
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Click to collapse
but u cant use them as system memory so its like a 8gb SD
Yeah, perhaps I'm spoilt from having apps2sd on my Dream - I've got used to installing whatever the hell I like, and leaving it there!
Let's hope Paul from MoDaCo finishes rooting/getting write access to the system partition soon. Or indeed, any other dev who can manage it
How do you guys get so many apps? I have installed around 20 apps and it's telling me I'm running low on space.......quite annoying. Having to remove apps to instal others.
boge said:
Afaik the 8GB onboard is as storage, not as ROM. So if android is still like today (only allowed application to be installed in ROM) those 8 GB can't be used as well. The main reason of this limitation is to prevent the piracy, but I read somewhere that there is a plan to add a function to store the encrypted application in the external storage. Hopefully that can be realized soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL that was pretty much what I wrote originally & thought I was talking nonsense so I edited the post, should have left it I guess
For me its not the number of apps its that some are large. Anyone have copilot installed, im thinking of getting it but im worried the maps are going to fill the memory up & leave me room for no other apps! The Desire is a cutting edge device & we just shouldn't have to contend with this issue, Heck I never had this with Windows Mobile. Then again I never had any apps for Windows Mobile
OnlinePredator said:
How do you guys get so many apps? I have installed around 20 apps and it's telling me I'm running low on space.......quite annoying. Having to remove apps to instal others.
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It's not only the issue with the number apps you can install. This issue is also limiting developers. There are a couple of reasons iPhone applications/games are usualy higher quality then the android counterparts. Storage problems is one of those issues sadly.
Hi just out of interest would it be possible to let android run from RAM on the desire as a dev made it possible on the HD2? I mean that would really improve performance as RAM is quite a bit faster than NAND and SD and on the HD2 it seems to work well and not even run out of ram (which is quite awesome IMO).
quad2012 said:
Hi just out of interest would it be possible to let android run from RAM on the desire as a dev made it possible on the HD2? I mean that would really improve performance as RAM is quite a bit faster than NAND and SD and on the HD2 it seems to work well and not even run out of ram (which is quite awesome IMO).
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Click to collapse
its only the fs that gets stored on the ram before boot not data, so I/O improvements would be minimal as the device rarely need to R/W from system compared to /data, also HD roms need to run totally from sd card witch is slower than nand obviously, so you gotta ask yourself would you be prepared to loose 150-250mb of ram, just from a minor speed improvement?
Ahh ok makes sense only one noob question xD on HD2 lot's of people experienced quite a performance boost is that because of the different devices?
quad2012 said:
Ahh ok makes sense only one noob question xD on HD2 lot's of people experienced quite a performance boost is that because of the different devices?
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its prob because the whole rom is booted from the sd card, if you notice, when Multiple process try to access a sd card, each process after the first one gets lower and lower R/W speed, try it with a sd card reader on your pc, if you try to copy 10 seperate files to your sd card at once, the first one coppies at normal speed but the others will be gradually slower and slower, the same thing happens when Multiple android processes would try to access the sd card, leading to obvious lag, a nand chip, and ram dosent have this problem all processes have the same R/W speed.
Can I use a part of the 1.5gb of rom in the desire z/ G2 to make a swap partition?!
It's dangerous to the eeprom life?
Performance would be much better than microSD I think..
nagash91 said:
Can I use a part of the 1.5gb of rom in the desire z/ G2 to make a swap partition?!
It's dangerous to the eeprom life?
Performance would be much better than microSD I think..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know such a thing does not exist, though like you suggested it may be dangerous due to data corruption (though if properly partitioned you can fix it)
On the other hand using microSD for swap has been nothing but good for me, it has significantly improved speed, cause it is only a couple hundred Mbs of data on the swap partition so it can transfer quickly and smoothly, also it's only used when absolutely necessary.
What class microSD do you have?
noneabove said:
As far as I know such a thing does not exist, though like you suggested it may be dangerous due to data corruption (though if properly partitioned you can fix it)
On the other hand using microSD for swap has been nothing but good for me, it has significantly improved speed, cause it is only a couple hundred Mbs of data on the swap partition so it can transfer quickly and smoothly, also it's only used when absolutely necessary.
What class microSD do you have?
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Click to collapse
I have class 6 microSD, but I think it's fake (trasfering speed is 2 - 3 mbps).
I think that the most important propriety for a good swap is the access time.. but the problem is that I can't find a site where I can see the access time of microSD tested by someone.
I want to buy a 32gb microSD class 10 or class 6, but if I can't find the access time..
I find that mustang and samsung microSD class 10 are cheap..
BTW I would love to know if I can make the swap file in /data or in /temp.
Access time in ROM is a lot faster that in microSD.
I don't think that rom can be damaged by a lot of writing, so why I can't use that support for swap. It would not faster as RAM, but absolutely faster than microSD class 10.
PS: I tried to make swap file on microSD with swapper2 and cyanomod 7.1. I get an error on swapon.. does cyanomod kernel support swap!? Thanks
nagash91 said:
I have class 6 microSD, but I think it's fake (trasfering speed is 2 - 3 mbps).
I think that the most important propriety for a good swap is the access time.. but the problem is that I can't find a site where I can see the access time of microSD tested by someone.
I want to buy a 32gb microSD class 10 or class 6, but if I can't find the access time..
I find that mustang and samsung microSD class 10 are cheap..
BTW I would love to know if I can make the swap file in /data or in /temp.
Access time in ROM is a lot faster that in microSD.
I don't think that rom can be damaged by a lot of writing, so why I can't use that support for swap. It would not faster as RAM, but absolutely faster than microSD class 10.
PS: I tried to make swap file on microSD with swapper2 and cyanomod 7.1. I get an error on swapon.. does cyanomod kernel support swap!? Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It should but for the life of me I have no idea why, I'm assuming you were just testing it out but if not, swap is NOT needed for most AOSP ROMs and could in fact slow down your phone and kill your battery.
Also swapper is not the most recommended way of doing it as if something gets corrupted there goes your whole SD Card.. :/ safer to make a partition on it.
As for speeds, the speed from the phone to the SD Card compared to the SD Card to the computer (through the phone/data cable) will vary significantly, and so will read/write times. For me through my phone I can read at around 15 Mb/s (class 10) and write at 3 Mb/s, but if I take it out and put it in a Micro SD Card converter then I can write at speeds of at least 10 Mb/s.
As for access time.. If I'm not mistaken, after RAM, SD storage is one of the fastest digital reading and writing in terms of access time. I have noticed no discrepancies in speed where it would have to read or write to my SD Card's swap so I think that'll be okay.
As for finding out if the ROM can be used... Quite frankly, not a clue, but I would tread lightly there if you want to start experimenting
i am thinking about the same question... Maybe it 's to be safe to use your sd card and make a swap partition. However i am on miui which doesn't require a swap so i don't have to use a swap partition. And the sense 3.5 and 3.0 are to slow and to heavy for me for the old desire z with a such amount of ram memory ..
Hi,
I just got a brand new Galaxy Nexus and I wanted to ask about the internal SD card.
It is to my understanding that normal SD cards die over time with use (if you keep copying files on and off it).
I want to watch heaps of videos on GNex and I was wondering if the internal SD would 'die' quicker if I kept on copying video files onto it over and over again.
Thanks for any help.
-FireStampler
Its not an internal SDcard, its a virtual path on the internal storage that's an "SDcard". I highly doubt you'll ever read/write enough on the flash storage to negatively affect it in the phone's lifecycle.
martonikaj said:
Its not an internal SDcard, its a virtual path on the internal storage that's an "SDcard". I highly doubt you'll ever read/write enough on the flash storage to negatively affect it in the phone's lifecycle.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Challenge Accepted... just kidding,
Thanks
Theoretically, yes.
And I actually posed the same question about Swap and Zram to my Kernel Developer.
I got a fairly long post about how (again, theoretically, yes) it may impact after years of use...but not to the extend that I shouldn't be able to complete my two year contract or anything similar.
While this was my original assumption, the reassurance felt nice.
That...and have you ever had an SDcard **** out on you?
I never have. Nor have I heard of it happening to anyone I know (aside from 1/100000000 people online...you know).
Tl;DR
Writing constantly to the internal storage CAN impact performance negatively.
But it'd be an extreme case to have this impact you during the years that you own the device.
If I'm not mistaken, current generation MLC NAND starts to degrade after around 10,000 writes cycles, so that should last you quite a while .
Jubakuba said:
...That...and have you ever had an SDcard **** out on you?
...
Tl;DR
Writing constantly to the internal storage CAN impact performance negatively.
But it'd be an extreme case to have this impact you during the years that you own the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No but a friend who does photography has had a 2gb one die a while back and I've had a mechanical hard drive (although this is totally different to flash storage ) crap out on me just a few days ago.
This is my first smartphone so I want to be cautious but I also didn't buy it just so it would sit there doing nothing
Thanks for your advice, hope I can make this phone last a few years.