Its takes like over 5 mins (probably longer)to lock on to the gps and thats when you stay still dont know if you can get a lock while moving, i put the setting on other gps device on tomtom itself and com 4 as the gps programme port is on com4 on the gps menu settings.
Question is do i have to live with that or is their some way of speeding it up. Any help given will be very appreaciative.
Another question is will it help if i put the programme on the device itself or leave it on the sorage card and then some how tell the programme the maps are on the memory card.
badman112 said:
Another question is will it help if i put the programme on the device itself or leave it on the sorage card and then some how tell the programme the maps are on the memory card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest you install the program itself on the device rather than on the storage card. I don't know whether or not does this affect the time it will take to lock to some satellites though. Five minutes or more seems to be on the long side, on average it takes about 1-3 minutes in my experience. There is an application called QuickGPS which claimes to speed up things, however, I have to admit that I didn't notice any difference, to be honest.
grun said:
There is an application called QuickGPS which claimes to speed up things, however, I have to admit that I didn't notice any difference, to be honest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im using TomTom from StorageCard (not for the first time...) and with default settings it don't takes long time to find satellites. i would suggest running QuickGPS could help you...or a faster SDcard....not all of the storage cards are equal in speed....
petervbeck said:
Im using TomTom from StorageCard (not for the first time...) and with default settings it don't takes long time to find satellites. i would suggest running QuickGPS could help you...or a faster SDcard....not all of the storage cards are equal in speed....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Guys,
i have this problem a few times and all i had done was to re-write the filepackedephemeris file to the windows directory, do one time update for Quick gps and your problems will go away, there is a thread here about the file.
trust me download it and throw it at the windows folder.
Do you have the link to that thread Neil?
Cheers
I have had this problem before sometimes where it is very difficult to pick up a gps signal. I attributed it to bad gps signal strength as it works fine at other times.
Sometimes resetting tom tom made a difference but not enough that I would do it all the time though.
iamholam said:
I have had this problem before sometimes where it is very difficult to pick up a gps signal. I attributed it to bad gps signal strength as it works fine at other times.
Sometimes resetting tom tom made a difference but not enough that I would do it all the time though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also had long connection times and also a week signal, Got TMO-UK to swap the phone will see if this makes for a better reception
Same problem to me... but now I update QuickGPS every day....
now with an actuall QuickGPS it takes about 15-20 seconds to get a gps signal...
So I think an updated QuickGPS is the right way...
Can someone tell me how to do quickgps method, I dont know how to reg edit and not sure what programe does it and please can someone give me a noobs guide to doing quickgps. I have read a couple of threads and cant seem to make heads and tails it either says that does not work anymore this one does and the method just changes a few times. Can someone give me the correct way in here to do it as i am majorly confused.
quickgps is a program that is installed on b&b 4.0, and some other roms too.
Click: Start-Programs-Connections and click on quickgps.
Connect to the web either via wifi or through activesync and then click download button in quickgps and the data will update.
What does it mean by valid time?? on the quick gps..
Have to admit it is quite faster.
thats just how long the gps data is valid for, when you update it, it lasts for about 3 days. Be careful with the quickgps options, if you're not on an unlimited gprs data tariff then uncheck the box labelled autodownload when data expires, otherwise you could be in for some hefty bills mate.
The best is to disable the automatic update in QuickGPS.
You only have to sync your Artemis every second day... so the QuickGPS data will always be valid...
Have you tried to change the transmission rate in Parameter/System/GPS/Hardware?
I do not use QuickGPS.
I set the transmission rate to 33600 bauds and my PDA needs less than 2 minutes to lock on.
GPS Slow Startup solved
garymeg said:
I also had long connection times and also a week signal, Got TMO-UK to swap the phone will see if this makes for a better reception
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK Got my new phone friday had change to test, Now first power up of tomtom (on sd card) took about 2.5 mins, i did not use quickGPS this morning i fired it up, it took 25 seconds to get signal closed down gps reciver, fired back up, 15 seconds, off for about 3.5 - 4 hours signal in 30 seconds so i would say that the GPS was defernetly faulty on my phone, ps my phone is a stock Rom customized to hell (only about 7mb of storage space left on device
Just loaded Tomtom6 on my Orbit after WM6 upgrade and it took an absolute age to lock-onto a GPS signal here too. I did run QuickGPS yeaterday. I think it's an issue with WM6 rather than a fault with your GPS receiver.
HTC Touch HD Seems to have a problem with the way this device is handling GPS.
I have Tom Tom 7 installed and when I try to use Tom Tom 7 it looks for a valid GPS signal and then shows "No GPS Device" It will then find a valid signal and then again shows "No GPS Device" this changes every 10 or 20 seconds.......
If I use quick GPS first before I start Tom Tom (even though Quick GPS hadn't expired) it works fine!!!
Confused!!!
Please help!
Thank you
bit odd, mines fine, the only thing that is probably different is i turned off A-GPS, try turning that off, im assuming you havent been playing with its settings?
try a different GPS enabled program and see if that has the same issues.
dazza9075 said:
bit odd, mines fine, the only thing that is probably different is i turned off A-GPS, try turning that off, im assuming you havent been playing with its settings?
try a different GPS enabled program and see if that has the same issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have turned A-GPS off and it has locked on almost immediately and seems to be keeping the signal so far - There's a first!
I'll give it a bit of a test drive tomorrow and keep my fingers crossed...
Can you give me a quick understanding of how A-GPS is supposed to work (or not)
Thank you for your help.
Andy-- said:
Can you give me a quick understanding of how A-GPS is supposed to work (or not)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's supposed to logon to a server provided by your ISP, then use celltower co-ordinates to help make GPS more accurate.
It's basically totally broken on the HD.
To get a fix the GPS receiver needs Ephemeris data. This can be acquired in several ways.
1. Direct from the satellites to the GPS receiver.
2. From a data file (QuickGPS).
3. Transmitted from a cell tower (AGPS).
1. The receiver will get a fix without any assistance but will take a while to acquire sufficient data from at least three satellites to do so.
2. The receiver has much of the positioning data stored in a file so will resolve a fix quickly.
3. The data transmitted from the cell tower will take time to be received so will take slightly longer than 2.
If both (2) and (3) are supplying Ephemeris data, then that data may be similar but not identical. At this point the receiver will have a WTF moment while trying to resolve the fix from differing data, and so will rely more on (1).
Throw into the mix a weak cell signal and possibly a weak GPS signal / reflections and the problem is compounded.
Clearly there is no need for all three, and in many cases it is problematic. Keep the QuickGPS data up to date and switch off the AGPS.
Fully understood,, thanks for making it so understandable.
I dont believe A-GPS has anything to do with it, and I have mine always disabled to avoid any potential network charges for using it.
I did have some initial teething problems with getting GPs working but once I got up-to-date s/w and configured everything correctly, things improved dramatically.
Now GPS synchronisation is usually very quick indeed, with lots of satellites visible. Occasionally it wont synchronise but I find a soft reset of the device always puts this right.
gotta love that WTF moment wen it spazzs out.
Hi,
I have an unbranded UK TP2, ROM 1.19.401.1, Radio 3.46.25.30 (The latest ROM and the radio with the GPS fix) however I cannot get quick GPS to work.
On the surface quick GPS seems to work correcly, it will connect and download the required data, it will then show that data is valid for seven days, however it has no effect on the time to first fix from a cold start.
I have tried the following experement, hard reset and install only HTC GPS tool, (no tweaks). Then go outside to get a clear view of the whole sky. Then use HTC GPS tool to perform a Cold start. GPS lock takes 5 mins 40 sec without QGPS, Then exit GPS tool and update QGPS and perform GPS cold start again, again GPS fix then takes 5 min 30 sec.
Hot start performance is fine, sub 10 second and warm start is also satisfactory 30 sec(ish)
Does Quick GPS make any difference to a cold start for anyone else? (after all it main purpose is to speed up cold starts.)
Cheers
Tom
When i looked at the reg settings for GPS, A-GPS is disabled by default so quickgps data isnt used - my ROM is same as yours.
ag_woodward said:
When i looked at the reg settings for GPS, A-GPS is disabled by default so quickgps data isnt used - my ROM is same as yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quick GPS is different to A-GPS, I agree A-GPS is disabled by default in the ROM (it also has a dummy ip address in the settings so would never work if enabled). However Quick GPS is a separate entity, it seems like the GPS driver is not utilising the ephemeris data from the xtra.bin file downloaded by the QuickGPS app.
Can anyone confirm that Quick GPS is working on their TP2 (Cold start only)
Cheers
Tom
ag_woodward said:
When i looked at the reg settings for GPS, A-GPS is disabled by default so quickgps data isnt used - my ROM is same as yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's rather scary. Is there any way to get A-GPS to actually work?
Although I see what you mean about it's scary, I really dont experience any lengthy delays in getting a fix, even on a poor weather day I get a fix in around 1 min (never timed it but I am impatient so it would be obvious )
I use Copilot - which I must say v8 is a bargain compared with other offerings.
The only irritation I do have with HTC is their inability to get rid of the GPS lag....so sick of trying things but you learn to live with it - specially as the new BT stack prevents connection to external GPS receivers (they can be paired but CP7 and TOMTOM7 wouldn't communicate with them). 1 step forward, 2 back!
Anyone know why my GPS fix is so slow? It takes at least 10 minutes to get a fix..
I'm running - VaniljEclair RLS6
TW,
It really depends on the weather. If you look up and see clouds, it's going to be a while. If it's raining then it may never connect.
It also helps the have the best tools for the job. Use kallt_kaffe's latest kernel, and download and use "GPS Test" for connecting your GPS.
Dukenukemx said:
It really depends on the weather. If you look up and see clouds, it's going to be a while. If it's raining then it may never connect.
It also helps the have the best tools for the job. Use kallt_kaffe's latest kernel, and download and use "GPS Test" for connecting your GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's clear outside so its not weather related.
I'm curious what the"GPS Test" tool actually does? and just exactly what the phone is doing causing it to take so long.
Thanks,
The way GPS works is as follows.
In order to know your position on a 2 dimensional plane, you need 2 coordinates, X and Y, however in order to know your position on a 3 dimensional object, you need 3 coordinates, X, Y and Z, what we need to know is our position in a 4 dimensional space, which requires not only X, Y Z and V, so that's a lot of data right there, and to further complicate things, the satellites themselves are in motion, also in 4 dimensions.
Ok if that hasn't messed with your head, consider this, your phone only receives GPS data from the satellites, it does not transmit anything, so how does your phone know where the satellites are? simple, the satellites transmit their position, the time, their velocity and heading, ( actually it's slightly more complicated, but I'm not getting into orbital mechanics, lol).
So in order to be able to fix a position, your phone must download this data from each satellite in view, process and compare it with all the other data in order to get an initial fix.
As if this was not complicated enough, you must also realise that the satellite data is continually transmitting in an updating loop, so if the receiver gets bad data from one sat, it must discard that set and start again.
Once the initial fix is made, it's a simple matter to continually update the devices position, but once the gps is turned off, it may take some time to resynchronise, especially if the user has moved to another location before restarting gps.
To operate with reasonable accuracy, (within a few tens of metres), you must have a good signal from at least 4 satellites, more just refines the accuracy.
So why ten minutes? Well there are a number of factors, weather does play a part, but not as much as some think, typically you will lose lock on the weaker satellites, giving less accuracy.
Surrounding buildings and trees are actually great at blocking GPS signals, so in wooded or built up areas, expect slower fixes, less accuracy, and dropped locks.
Movement, this is actually the biggest problem, if you are in motion during the initial fix period, there is a high probability that your own motion will cause problems, since the gps data may be changing too fast for the device to cope with, which will cause it to continually discard data that may be valid.
All in all, the best practice is to find somewhere stationary, away from buildings and trees, turn on GPS, and just wait for it to lock, it will usually take 5 minutes from cold start, perhaps up to 10 minutes in some cases.
Once the initial fix is established, it takes less time to refix after gps is turned off, since the last data is kept in the device for future reference, (which is why it can take more time to fix if you turn off gps and then move 10K or so before turning it on again).
Winmo has a few advantages over Android for gps, since on WM you can download a 'snapshot' of the satellite data in order to 'jump start' the gps to get a faster fix, that plus cell location and agps make it much faster to get up and running compared to Android on our hardware, which lacks cell location and agps.
What GPS Test does is simply show you a lot more data than you would normally see, satellite positions, signal strengths, number of sats visible, number in use by you. Basically it lets you see that some data is actually being received by your device, how strong the signal is, and if the device has locked to a satellite. I highly recommend getting GPS Test from market if you use gps, used it on WM, and the Android port is just as good, ( I got the paid version, but the free one is excellent too).
Any questions?
zenity said:
The way GPS works is as follows.
...
Winmo has a few advantages over Android for gps, since on WM you can download a 'snapshot' of the satellite data in order to 'jump start' the gps to get a faster fix, that plus cell location and agps make it much faster to get up and running compared to Android on our hardware, which lacks cell location and agps.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Terrific write up!
So, GPS Test won't help speed up the positioning so therefore there isn't a need to download it unless your curious about any of the other settings, thanks.
Since the WM version was a bit quicker in getting the position by downloading a file is there something in the works to try and incorporate this process into Droid?
After it finds a fix, if the handset suspends is there a need to re-aquire the sats or wait again for the same process?
Thanks,
Well GPS Test won't speed up the initial or subsequent fixes, but it does give a good indication that gps is actually working, and receiving/processing the data, and once fixed, you just close that and start your preferred gps app, which will fix almost instantly since the data is current.
I don't think we have anything for android that does the same as the WM gps app, could be wrong, but have not seen anything yet.
The slowest is the initial fix, after that it usually fixes faster, suspended or powered down, only reinstall/wipe data will usually require such a long fix time again, however as I said, there are a number of factors, movement being perhaps the biggest cause of delay.
However once fixed, Android is comparable to WM, even better in some cases, since I never could get my all time favourite GPS software (trekbuddy), to work in WM, it is great in Android though
I don't think we have anything for android that does the same as the WM gps app, could be wrong, but have not seen anything yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i also looked and found nothing
The slowest is the initial fix, after that it usually fixes faster, suspended or powered down, only reinstall/wipe data will usually require such a long fix time again, however as I said, there are a number of factors, movement being perhaps the biggest cause of delay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mine also takes forever every time unless i havnt moved and switch apps within 10 minutes.
However once fixed, Android is comparable to WM, even better in some cases, since I never could get my all time favourite GPS software (trekbuddy), to work in WM, it is great in Android though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i lose gps on the highway, unlike when i had wimo
i still think its odd that i can see 6, 7, 8 sats for 2 or 3 minutes before getting a lock
Thinking about trying this on a friends Eris, but other android devices get a lock very quickly. The other devices have working tower location, so does the android gps system use the tower location to speed up gps lock?
I'm going to take my friends Eris and turn off all radio functions, then run GPS test to see what happens and how long a lock takes...
Ok, tried a few things on the Eris. In airplane mode, launched GPS test in a lock in under 10 seconds. Restarted the phone, still in airplane mode, and immediatly launch gps test and a lock in under 10 seconds.
Do these other phones have GPS chips have almanac caching or does the OS have some way of storing almanac data to assit the GPS.
As far as I am aware, from previous experience of GPS devices, the last ephemeris data is cached in the device chipset, allowing a faster start up, provided the user has not moved too far, or left gps off long enough to make the data too old. However I do not have enough information to make more than guess that it is hardware based rather than OS based caching.
Cell tower location allows GPS to establish a 3 dimensional fix, (remember gps needs more than 3 dimensions to establish a true fix), not enough to be totally accurate, but within 20-50 Metres, which is ideal for 'seeding' the incoming gps data from satellite, allowing even faster start up, since the gps chipset does not have to do nearly as much calculation and correlation on the data, since it already knows roughly where it is.
So the delay we experience in getting a gps fix with Android on our devices has one main cause, lack of cell tower location, and it's possible that the ephemeris data cache may not be getting processed, if this is indeed cached by the hardware, and not by the OS.
Some of you may have noticed a file called gps.conf in /system/etc
It looks like this:
Code:
NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
SUPL_HOST=supl.google.com
SUPL_PORT=7276
NTP is a protocol for getting accurate time from servers on the internet.
xtra.bin is asfaik the satellite almanac.
SUPL_HOST is for AGPS.
My guess is that a "real" android libgps uses this information to do a few things to help the GPS out.
1. Give it the current time
2. Prime it with the almanac
3. Use the AGPS data to provide it with correction data etc.
We could do some HaRET magic to monitor what the QuickGPS software send to the GPS chip and make our own QuickGPS tool for android or even build that into libgps.so. It's possible but is it worth the time? I don't know. I would give it a go if I wasn't allready lacking time to do everything I want to do.
kallt_kaffe said:
Some of you may have noticed a file called gps.conf in /system/etc
It looks like this:
Code:
NTP_SERVER=north-america.pool.ntp.org
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_2=http://xtra2.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_3=http://xtra3.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin
SUPL_HOST=supl.google.com
SUPL_PORT=7276
NTP is a protocol for getting accurate time from servers on the internet.
xtra.bin is asfaik the satellite almanac.
SUPL_HOST is for AGPS.
My guess is that a "real" android libgps uses this information to do a few things to help the GPS out.
1. Give it the current time
2. Prime it with the almanac
3. Use the AGPS data to provide it with correction data etc.
We could do some HaRET magic to monitor what the QuickGPS software send to the GPS chip and make our own QuickGPS tool for android or even build that into libgps.so. It's possible but is it worth the time? I don't know. I would give it a go if I wasn't allready lacking time to do everything I want to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, that makes sense, since Agps uses an internet server to prime the gps chipset, and if I recall correctly QuickGPS is similar, but provides the weeks Ephemeris data. Ephemeris, Almanac and Time are the three main data components of GPS, ( almanac being the one I tend to forget about....).
Perhaps changing a few server addresses in gps.conf may provide us with some aggps functionality, but I am now wondering if perhaps agps is 'broken' in our builds, or perhaps I have never noticed any data activity.
Just had a look at the website address http://xtra1.gpsonextra.net/xtra.bin, which allows me to download what I assume is the data file, so what we need to complete the puzzle is, what uses gps.conf, and where does it put the data file?, Also does anything use that data file if present?
GPS is currently pretty much useless in that it just never gets a fix, today I waited 10 minutes and still nothing - I went back to WM to use GPS, so any development in this area would be sweet!
TW,
Not sure exactly what is going on there, last night I installed the latest nbh from kallt, plus his RLS7b eclair build, this morning I started gps for the first time, using gpstest I got a first fix in under 3 minutes, which is faster than average.
Sent from my HTC Kaiser using Tapatalk
zenity said:
Not sure exactly what is going on there, last night I installed the latest nbh from kallt, plus his RLS7b eclair build, this morning I started gps for the first time, using gpstest I got a first fix in under 3 minutes, which is faster than average.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using the same setup at the minute, tried GPS this morning and it got a fix on the move in about 5mins which isn't bad, my girlfriends HTC Hero got a fix in under a minute though and it's the first time it has connected and it's true that WM is much faster when quickGPS is updated. Any improvements here are very welcome, maybe i'll have a look into it too.
you could edit gps.conf according to your own pool server
a list of these servers can be found here. May make a small difference for some people.
Please post if this helped getting a quicker fix
http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/
Update:
i used the appropriate time server for my country (netherlands),
i used a fresh device (android had never ran on it, though the android on sdcard has been used on other devices)
i went to the toilet very quick, when i came back there was a fix.
So please go see if this makes a difference for you, and post your experiences in here
I seriously don't think it will matter what you put in gps.conf at the moment. What we need to know is how this is used on a "real" android phone.
I've tried to find some GPS code in the Hero kernel source in the past but found almost nothing and the libgps for HTC devices are asfaik closed source so I guess it's in libgps all the "magic" takes place. (I fact, for Kaisers the it would be more "right" to do our NMEA parsing in libgps instead of doing it in the kernel but since libgps evolved around the Vogue it was made in the kernel to make it appear just like the vogue gps data to libgps.so.)
So I'm guessing that a "real" libgps.so reads gps.conf, get's some data and feeds it to the GPS. Likely with AT-commands. It is possible though that it is the ril interface that does it. We have the source for our ril lib and our gpslib and I know for sure we don't do any prime:ing in the our libgps. (The sources are here: http://androidhtc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb-index.cgi?p=gitroot/androidhtc/bootenv/)
It is possible to do dump stuff with HaRET when you for example enable the GPS (I've done it in the past following instructions from dzo) and also when you run QuickGPS and try to match the information sent with the information in xtra.bin. I also expect we should find it sending the current UTC time which by it self propably could speed up fix times.
Once we know what to do we either build it into libgps or we make an Android app similar to QuickGPS.
In fact, I found some dumps laying around....
At boot WinMo sends the system time to the Radio with this command:
[email protected]=2,21,43,2010,5,12
I would say the format is H,M,S,YYYY,M,D even though values are a bit strange because the files are dated 2010-05-11 but it's possible that the WinMo clock was a bit f*cked up at the moment.
Perhaps our rild is allready sending this (someone should check the source)
Otherwise you could try this and se if it helps:
echo -e "[email protected]=x\r" > /dev/smd0
(replaceing the x with the current time and date of course)
Just tried and it was going on 10 minutes with no fix...
TW,
Have you tried gpstest to see if it's actually receiving a signal at all? It is possible that you have a hardware issue, perhaps a broken antenna connection?
If that were the case then it shouldn't work in Windows and it does... ???
Strange...
Does Android require a data connection when getting a GPS fix?
TW,
Hi, i'm trying to use my gps, but i cannot find any satellite, i've already tried iGO and iGO Primo, Google Maps, i had tested with HTC GPS TOOLS and no sattelite was fixed, what I have to do?
Thanks
even i use igo(NDRIVE) it does but it take time to connect, go in an open space..
Have you updated the GPS data with QuickGPS on the phone?
phatestcat said:
Have you updated the GPS data with QuickGPS on the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just wanted to ask that
Are you outdoors, with a clear view of most of the sky? Is this a new phone? If brand new, it might take several minutes for initial lock, but then will find satellites much faster after that.
Have you messed with the settings at all? Or fresh out of the box?
Make sure your HTC GPS tool is set to port COM4.
Hi there,
I use this tool: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=571266
With this "GPS mod" my device will find satellites even when i'm indoors and reletively close to a window. The fix will usually happen within 10 seconds and it will fix on 6-12 sats (even when it's extremely cloudy/rainy).
I useTomTom 7 and it works extremely fast with almost no lag at all.
Read the instructions in the first post, they are easy and well documented.
Good luck!