Related
I decided to share this commentary here from my WP7 fansite http://www.L337ware.com because I wanted to see how you all felt about the subject and honestly my site doesn't get alot of traffic being a homegrown effort.
"First off I have to admit I may be a victim of my own self imposed hype. Now that I got that out of the way I can’t help being a little bit dissapointed at the Windows Phone 7 news coming out of CES 2011. For example where is the promise of new blockbuster applications such as Pandora, Skype, Hulu, and many more key fixtures available of other platforms? How bout some cool new phones to compete with the flood of amazing Android powered hardware on the way? Maybe some new XBox live features like voice support? Instead we get the somewhat creepy rantings from the queen of the butterfly cult and a lackluster list of future game titles. I don’t really need it to justify my purchase but while Microsoft was all over Kinect sales numbers they seem to shy away from talking about the market performance of their now heavily discounted Windows Phones. Honestly most people are well aware of the features of the more immediate update but talking more about the plans for the later half of the year would have giving early adopters quite a bit of comfort. I’m a pretty avid fan of Microsoft and their products but even I can’t help feeling slightly underwhelmed. While I know Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have seen many times how quickly they can refocus a brand to please it’s users I have to say that CES 2011 is not really get me excited for Windows Phone 7."
L337Ware said:
I don’t really need tit to justify my purchase...
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If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase
i like your site! if i can remember , i'll read it!
zukа said:
If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase
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Thank you so much for catching the random tit. Now that we all know what thoughts I'm surpressing while i'm on the internet we can carry on with our evening.
good thing i didnt jump on the wp7 at first site. i rather had wait to see how the developers would or would not embrace it. also the current phones seem to be outdated after reading the new android phones show cased at ces. the dell venue pro did peak my interest for its portrait slider and large screen but i wanted a front facing camera also. guess ill have to keep waiting for the next best thing
yes no new news for wp7 at ces was dissapointing. they did seem to avoid talking about their phones
c_legaspi said:
good thing i didnt jump on the wp7 at first site. i rather had wait to see how the developers would or would not embrace it. also the current phones seem to be outdated after reading the new android phones show cased at ces. the dell venue pro did peak my interest for its portrait slider and large screen but i wanted a front facing camera also. guess ill have to keep waiting for the next best thing
yes no new news for wp7 at ces was dissapointing. they did seem to avoid talking about their phones
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Honestly passed the geek **** fight that occurs when we start talking about our toys the Windows Phone has been a great experience so while I won't try to change your mind I will say it's been one of the most comfortable platforms I've used for a mobile device in my lifetime. I have no regrets from picking it up over iOS or Android but like a greedy child I want more and I want it from Microsoft yesterday.
zukа said:
If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase
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ok, LMFAO...heh
That was good...anyway back on topic..
As quoted here....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10393777#post10393777
Maybe we are waiting for the Mobile World Congress starting on February 14th for new models to hit ?
Reflexx1 said:
Nothing really new.
When an MS rep was questioned, he did say something like (I'm paraphrasing), "We're saving some news for a later date. Only if there was an event coming up dedicated to mobile devices in Barcelona, Spain where we could talk about this..."
Making a not so thinly veiled reference to the Mobile World Congress starting on February 14th.
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Another site for my favs...I'll read it as long as it's updated
Nice site. If you need any casual contributers, give me a holler.
Reflexx1 said:
Nice site. If you need any casual contributers, give me a holler.
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I may definately take you up on that. It's a bit daunting doing all of this by myself and the few Android users I have now as casual contributors act like they will get struck with lightening if they post anything productive on the site.
L337Ware said:
... we get the somewhat creepy rantings from the queen of the butterfly cult and a lackluster list of future game titles.."
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sad but true they need to pick up the pace and satisfy us, their community and costumers. Both the iOS and Android, their competitors, are growing really fast, adding a lot more for our beloved WP7 to catch up with
heh
now that I've cooled down from the shock I can say that most of us put too much of expectation into yesterday announcement, and when it not satisfy our needs most of us (like me) felt like being cheated or thrown out
as for the new models, I just really don't think that it would make difference, since what we want is the change in software, not a 4.5" with Tigra and half-day battery to go along with it
i really like the l337ware site, definitely one for the bookmarks
hassler said:
as for the new models, I just really don't think that it would make difference, since what we want is the change in software, not a 4.5" with Tigra and half-day battery to go along with it
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Says who ??? Out of all the specs of ALL the WP7 phones, nothing is like WOW. Really, everything on every model has been done already by another maker or platform. I don't think anyone wants a 4.5" display, unless it's a tablet, it does not fit in the pocket too well. MS needs a show stopper, a really HOT WP7 phones, they don't have one. There is nice phones don't get me wrong but, no WOW phones.
I can honestly say CES had some Android phones that were faster and nicer displays, still not WOW but, a very strong Hmmmm. If they were WP7 models, I might get a happy about them.
Still dreaming for a Verizon WP7 phone...and not the Trophy
Agreed. Wp7 still doesn't have a superphone that can compete with you-know-iWho.
i am not sure what ppl were hoping from the CES and microsoft, WP7 was just launched in Oct 2010 and we are still waiting for the first update... adding on new things to the OS before the update will be not a wise thing to do...
come on guys this is CES not Mobile world Forum, and i hope some of you were not hoping for more hardware to be launched 3 months after the initial launch of the OS and 6 devices..
i was only hoping for the update date or week only... any way MS was tight liped with the WP7 and i think they will be tight liped for the update as well...
Here's a bit more info extracted by mobilitydigest:
http://mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-updates-from-ces-2011/
efjay said:
Here's a bit more info extracted by mobilitydigest:
http://mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-updates-from-ces-2011/
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The indecision on the Skydrive stuff is beginning to p*ss me off.
Well I have to say, that it's probably better off to wait for the MWC in February for phone news, I will wait for that to see whether I should wait for some decent spec'd wp7 devices, or just jump on the android ship.
WP7 is impressive OS but there is no killer WP7 device on the market. Dell Venur pro is one worth buying but I don't like its portrait keyboard. I'll wait for Nokia WP7 phone later this year.
adesonic said:
The indecision on the Skydrive stuff is beginning to p*ss me off.
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Well me too.....
Sadly this project is no more. We were a dev team of 3 people who had about 3 months into Appaloosa. However, the slow build of the WP7 platform and some reported low sales numbers in the App Marketplace made it hard to justify the additional time needed to bring this title to market.
Was very hard to let go of so much work and creative energy.
Here is a walk thru of an alpha build. It definately shows what that phone is capable of pushing (forum is perventing the url, sorry first post).
img816.imageshack.us/img816/3521/32430348.mp4
You're kidding, right?
The WP7 platform has had a faster uptake than both iOS and Android when they were first launched. As for marketplace sales, I don't know what numbers you have seen, but games is what generally sells well, especially ones with great graphics as they are not only used as a game but also as a "look at what my phone can do" kinda thing amongst the owners friends.
From the video, and with no background information available, it doesn't look like a game for me, but if it was performing well and priced correctly I would still probably pick it up.
Anyway, that's my $0.02.
Hi there
lard666 said:
However, the slow build of the WP7 platform and some reported low sales numbers in the App Marketplace[...]
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I don't know exactly what numbers you are referring to, but I guess you mean LG's statement. Isn't LG maybe just part of the picture? There are Samsung and HTC that are currently the main sellers of WP7. (for the shares, look here: http://wmpoweruser.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/wp7oem.png)
Although I can't exactly be sure why LG is doing that bad (it might have to do something with the phone they offer...) - that's up for speculation.
I'd like to add that T-Mobile Germany just stated that they are ahead of their plans regarding WP7 sales (source: http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/201...-windows-phone-7-sales-are-ahead-of-schedule/ along with several other sites)
Personally, I don't get the impression that WP7 is doing badly.
lard666 said:
Was very hard to let go of so much work and creative energy.
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Judging from what is shown in the trailer, I'd say it's a great thing you did so far.
And I'd like to buy a version as soon as it is out (I know that I am just one person - but there might be others who think the same)
lard666 said:
Here is a walk thru of an alpha build. It definately shows what that phone is capable of pushing (forum is perventing the url, sorry first post).
img816.imageshack.us/img816/3521/32430348.mp4
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Like stated above, it looks fantastic up 'till now.
I'd like you to continue your work and take this project all the way to the Marketplace.
Wow! That looks absolutely amazing.
Maybe this is a stupid suggestion but if you get it to be an xbox live game (they seem to do well) then it has every chance of being a success. Not sure how much Microsoft will take but worth consdering.
Good job!
I'm with you guys. I don't even know what this game is about but from the alpha build the 3D graphics look slick as hell. If you look at a game like Zombies!!! MS took it under its wing, gave it XBox Live integration and now it'll get a sh!tload of sales because of that. And that seems to be what they're donig with high performance games so it's worth pursuing...
If you write for Android you won't make money. No one buys anything on that platform. if you write for iOS no one will see your game in the sea of apps. WP7 still has potential.
Moving this to SW development since this is an ongoing project. Once its in the "its an app" stage I will move it back to the release section.
~~Tito~~
With regard to the kind words about the looks of the project, thank you.
The environment for level one (which was shown in the video in it's incomplete form) was 210K polygons.
Appaloosa is an old school western pistol pack'n arcade style shooter. It's based in a fantastic, toony, world centered loosely around America's late 1800's Old West. It's a rail shooter with shorter action-areas that can be completed in a single mobile time wasting session. So think western popup shooter crossed with Time Crisis; and add tumble-weed bonus rounds ala Galaga. It also had direct Face Book integration for quick posting of achievements. The game was to be priced at $.99 for each level (we were toying with the idea of releasing one level at a time, episodic style) or $2.99 for the complete game.
About WP7 being viable (currently, say this year 2011) to develop apps for... I don't see the indicators or hard data that proves so. And I'm not saying this with a confrontational tone, I just haven't seen any. I keep hearing lazy statistics (which are easily manipulated like, "fastest sales", "highest rate of apps", "most devs to date", etc.) and praise ("performing better then expected")... but the hard numbers are being held for some reason. I would bet no one had recovered their time investment for WP7 development yet, let along make a living from it.
Regardless, the numbers of phones sold is something to be mindful of, but more important is how the paid apps are selling. And the short answer is they aren't.
Games sell more then any other app and 'LIVE' games sell the most. We knew we would be dead in the water without 'LIVE' support, but when we spoke to a MSFT rep in Belgium we got the answer, "oh LIVE... yes yes, that is tricky. Probably can't get you LIVE status; that is reserved for the big guys. Let me know when your game is done, and I will see what I can do to push it up the list."
We were also in contact with a dev studio who's game has always been in the top 10 and has "LIVE" certification. Their game has sold in the tens of thousands; which doesn't even cover dev costs. Maybe the costs will be recovered over the next year. But that 'maybe' was a risk I couldn't take; not with a self-funded (sweat equity) game.
We weren't looking to make big bucks. Just wanted to be able to exercise our craft and make a living. Everyone on the team was willing to live on 1/3 a typical studio salary in exchange for creative freedom and a chance to gain from their own sweat equity. We all brought senior experience to the table (I've worked on Tomb Raider, Half-Life, Tribes, Tony Hawk, and others). Sadly, the numbers aren't there. Punch in some basic math numbers on keeping 3 people alive for a 9 month dev cycle; plus additional time for sales and payment, and it's just not an equation that balances yet. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I'm bound by the realities of the real world, so at the New Year we had to evaluate the project progress and platform landscape.
If anyone has direct access to a MSFT rep, I would be happy to chat with them about bringing the game to market; Or point them to this post.
I guess the point of this post is that the phone is capable of pushing some great graphics and supporting original, mobile specific, titles of very high quality. But if a tiny 3 person team can't justify a 9 months development risk... then I see a chicken-n-egg scenario formed.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=902681
the person that posted this works for Microsoft... send him a message.
@lard666 One thing you have not accounted for in your numbers are Xbox sales. I am assuming this is written in XNA which means you can release it on the Xbox with it's 30 million users and $1 billion revenue last year almost at the flick of a switch.
I'm not saying this means you would definitely recoup your costs, but I know quite a few people who have high-selling titles on XBL, so it is possible.
I'd also like to point out that regional MS reps are nowhere near as helpful as their US counterparts. We had more luck contacting US people directly than we did liaising with the Swedish reps. I cannot say for certain that this is the same everywhere, but I have had similar experience in two other European countries in the past.
I'll forward this to Brandon Watson right now.
Guess you didn't hear about the Nokia deal. Too bad you quit.
lard666 said:
With regard to the kind words about the looks of the project, thank you.
The environment for level one (which was shown in the video in it's incomplete form) was 210K polygons.
Appaloosa is an old school western pistol pack'n arcade style shooter. It's based in a fantastic, toony, world centered loosely around America's late 1800's Old West. It's a rail shooter with shorter action-areas that can be completed in a single mobile time wasting session. So think western popup shooter crossed with Time Crisis; and add tumble-weed bonus rounds ala Galaga. It also had direct Face Book integration for quick posting of achievements. The game was to be priced at $.99 for each level (we were toying with the idea of releasing one level at a time, episodic style) or $2.99 for the complete game.
About WP7 being viable (currently, say this year 2011) to develop apps for... I don't see the indicators or hard data that proves so. And I'm not saying this with a confrontational tone, I just haven't seen any. I keep hearing lazy statistics (which are easily manipulated like, "fastest sales", "highest rate of apps", "most devs to date", etc.) and praise ("performing better then expected")... but the hard numbers are being held for some reason. I would bet no one had recovered their time investment for WP7 development yet, let along make a living from it.
Regardless, the numbers of phones sold is something to be mindful of, but more important is how the paid apps are selling. And the short answer is they aren't.
Games sell more then any other app and 'LIVE' games sell the most. We knew we would be dead in the water without 'LIVE' support, but when we spoke to a MSFT rep in Belgium we got the answer, "oh LIVE... yes yes, that is tricky. Probably can't get you LIVE status; that is reserved for the big guys. Let me know when your game is done, and I will see what I can do to push it up the list."
We were also in contact with a dev studio who's game has always been in the top 10 and has "LIVE" certification. Their game has sold in the tens of thousands; which doesn't even cover dev costs. Maybe the costs will be recovered over the next year. But that 'maybe' was a risk I couldn't take; not with a self-funded (sweat equity) game.
We weren't looking to make big bucks. Just wanted to be able to exercise our craft and make a living. Everyone on the team was willing to live on 1/3 a typical studio salary in exchange for creative freedom and a chance to gain from their own sweat equity. We all brought senior experience to the table (I've worked on Tomb Raider, Half-Life, Tribes, Tony Hawk, and others). Sadly, the numbers aren't there. Punch in some basic math numbers on keeping 3 people alive for a 9 month dev cycle; plus additional time for sales and payment, and it's just not an equation that balances yet. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I'm bound by the realities of the real world, so at the New Year we had to evaluate the project progress and platform landscape.
If anyone has direct access to a MSFT rep, I would be happy to chat with them about bringing the game to market; Or point them to this post.
I guess the point of this post is that the phone is capable of pushing some great graphics and supporting original, mobile specific, titles of very high quality. But if a tiny 3 person team can't justify a 9 months development risk... then I see a chicken-n-egg scenario formed.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I know some will say it's immature but as someone who has jumped in front of a train of android fanboys time and time again defending all of my WP7 devices is getting harder and harder when it seems that not even Microsoft wants to take themselves seriously. If they don't begin to take themselves and us, the more intelligent userbase, seriously then I won't be taking them seriously and my 8 WP7 devices will be traded/sold off on craigslist for another unfortunate soul to pick up. I love the WP7 UI, absolutely love it. I don't know where to go after this to get a UI that's even 1/10th as good as the WP7 UI but this phone that microsoft more or less promised the world on is looking less and less so on a daily basis. If Microsoft doesn't stop taking us seriously... I don't know where I'll go for a phone OS because android is now too slow for me and Iphone screens are too tiny, but I will certainly take my rather spendy business elsewhere. I know the meager 2100 dollars I've spent on WP7 devices may not seem like much to a corporate giant like microsoft but that's more than most people are willing to pay in WP7's current form.
I don't blame you dude. Its getting ridiculous! Microsoft stated that the future updates for Windows Phone 7 would blow the Iphone and Android out the water... I was really excited by this as I had just picked up my Mozart, now 6 months on, no updates at all, nothing, zip! I have also been reading that NoDo will be the only update this year!?!?!
Yes I'm excited to have copy and paste on my device (something that should have been present in the first place) but Microsoft are missing a trick here! Yes this phone has a great UI but without getting the simple things right I can see it flopping. I'm also struggling with the accuracy of many of the Microsoft built in features such as Bing Maps, which can't seem to get me anywhere at all!
SORT IT OUT MICROSOFT!
z33dev33l said:
Yeah, I know some will say it's immature but as someone who has jumped in front of a train of android fanboys time and time again defending all of my WP7 devices is getting harder and harder when it seems that not even Microsoft wants to take themselves seriously. If they don't begin to take themselves and us, the more intelligent userbase, seriously then I won't be taking them seriously and my 8 WP7 devices will be traded/sold off on craigslist for another unfortunate soul to pick up. I love the WP7 UI, absolutely love it. I don't know where to go after this to get a UI that's even 1/10th as good as the WP7 UI but this phone that microsoft more or less promised the world on is looking less and less so on a daily basis. If Microsoft doesn't stop taking us seriously... I don't know where I'll go for a phone OS because android is now too slow for me and Iphone screens are too tiny, but I will certainly take my rather spendy business elsewhere. I know the meager 2100 dollars I've spent on WP7 devices may not seem like much to a corporate giant like microsoft but that's more than most people are willing to pay in WP7's current form.
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No blame here, either. In my case, I have an iPhone an HD2 and soon the Android equivalent of the iPhone: Nexus S, to keep my tech veins fixed.
In all honesty I don't know where to go from here though. May have to pick up another HD2. Android is too choppy for me and as much as I like the iphone with the WP7 theme the keyboard is too small.
z33dev33l said:
In all honesty I don't know where to go from here though. May have to pick up another HD2. Android is too choppy for me and as much as I like the iphone with the WP7 theme the keyboard is too small.
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Well I mean I'll be angry too, but wp7 as is, is still a fantastic device. You could just stay with it, and understand that it's just unsupported now.
Or would you bail because of the principle of it all?
I think it's utterly pathetic the way Microsoft is handling this. They came out a strong contender, but now are returning to what they were: a joke.
sure haven't said:
Well I mean I'll be angry too, but wp7 as is, is still a fantastic device. You could just stay with it, and understand that it's just unsupported now.
Or would you bail because of the principle of it all?
I think it's utterly pathetic the way Microsoft is handling this. They came out a strong contender, but now are returning to what they were: a joke.
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Primarily the principle... and as much as I hate to admit it I would like multi-tasking... if I am playing ilomilo and I sit my phone down for a minute I have to start the level over again... it's pretty lame. If tombstoning apps worked as it should it wouldn't be an issue.
M$? Seriously? You think they're delaying the update as some sort of diabolical scheme to make money? Or is it just because they want to taunt their users? I'm sorry so much of your self worth is tied up in a phone that you can't bear someone making fun of it.
I think it's pretty obvious it's not out yet because Samsung's firmware is garbage and they're trying to work around it. After this first one future updates should go much more smoothly.
Well I am pretty sure I am picking up a HTC 7 Pro/Arrive from Sprint on March 20th, and it comes pre-installed with the NoDo update. Obviously the update already works and is out if HTC is manufacturing the Arrive and will have them in stores on the 20th.
I would say that the issue of update is falling just on Microsoft.
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
jeffgeno said:
M$? Seriously? You think they're delaying the update as some sort of diabolical scheme to make money? Or is it just because they want to taunt their users? I'm sorry so much of your self worth is tied up in a phone that you can't bear someone making fun of it.
I think it's pretty obvious it's not out yet because Samsung's firmware is garbage and they're trying to work around it. After this first one future updates should go much more smoothly.
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Eh, they've had 6 months to do this. We are not children, they should've tested it on two of their most popular devices much before the release that bricked some devices with 0 benefits. The corporate world is not something you procrastinate in if you want to succeed in whatever market. I have no doubt given the support WP7 will be the best out there but it truly doesn't seem microsoft is taking it seriously. Samsung is garbage when it comes to drivers. That is and will continue to be their weak point for whatever reason.
vetvito said:
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
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And even more recent word was first two weeks of March. I'm not one of those people who acts as though the update should've been out in January. I went solely on Microsoft's word and it does get annoying when not only are the rumors incorrect but also the official word.
vetvito said:
Dude STFU! Official word was 90 days after CES. Officially they are right on time.
Its like you guys dismissed official word and believed bull**** rumors.
Damn I usually criticize this mediocre OS, but you guys are going too far.
Realistically, no profit minded business gives a **** about pushing updates to old hardware. It doesn't make money! Get over it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When did they ever officially say "90 days after CES" ? At first it was the "January Update." Then February. Then Early March. Now it's late March. I won't be surprised if it dips into ****ing April.
WP7 is a solid OS, there's nothing mediocre about it. It makes iOS look like an archaic toy in terms of UI.
But with all that said, Microsoft is taking WAY too long to bring the OS up to feature parity with Android and iOS, and it's starting to get a little ****ing ridiculous. what we SHOULD be getting this month is Mango, not NoDo. Microsoft is dragging their damned feet, and the more they do it the further they'll fall behind.
They CANNOT afford to take their sweet damn time like this. If they do, the platform will die.
jasongw said:
When did they ever officially say "90 days after CES" ? At first it was the "January Update." Then February. Then Early March. Now it's late March. I won't be surprised if it dips into ****ing April.
WP7 is a solid OS, there's nothing mediocre about it. It makes iOS look like an archaic toy in terms of UI.
But with all that said, Microsoft is taking WAY too long to bring the OS up to feature parity with Android and iOS, and it's starting to get a little ****ing ridiculous. what we SHOULD be getting this month is Mango, not NoDo. Microsoft is dragging their damned feet, and the more they do it the further they'll fall behind.
They CANNOT afford to take their sweet damn time like this. If they do, the platform will die.
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January and February were tech blog rumors. Android reallly doesnt have much further to advance so that's not a concern. With them it's pretty much a hardware battle from here on out.
Oh my gosh, AT CES THEY SAID 60-90 DAYS! NO TECH BLOG, NO RUMOR. FACT.
I think you should calm the fsk down and stop treating your phone like a football team. You *threw* yourself in front of android fanboys? the chivalry lol!
vetvito said:
Oh my gosh, AT CES THEY SAID 60-90 DAYS! NO TECH BLOG, NO RUMOR. FACT.
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Ballmer himself said first two weeks of March
z33dev33l said:
Android reallly doesnt have much further to advance so that's not a concern. With them it's pretty much a hardware battle from here on out.
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You sound like the Guy that made a living selling oil lamps in the early 1800s. "There is nothing else they can invent, this is the best technology can get". Yeah right.
pillsburydoughman said:
I think you should calm the fsk down and stop treating your phone like a football team. You *threw* yourself in front of android fanboys? the chivalry lol!
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Yup, that added something to the thread.
vetvito said:
You sound like the Guy that made a living selling oil lamps in the early 1800s. "There is nothing else they can invent, this is the best technology can get". Yeah right.
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Honestly cant think of a good addition thats been added to android since... I don't know... multi-tasking?
I hate to say it, but the OP is right and the defenders are wrong. And I'm throwing down the gauntlet, too: if NoDo doesn't hit in March, I'm DONE.
As a rule I am not an early adopter anymore, in large part thanks to experiences in the gaming tech area. In that area, it's never, EVER a good idea to buy anything at launch because early adopters get screwed, 100% of the time. By the time the platform has matured to a level where there is a nice library of games and the hardware bugs have been worked out, there's usually a price drop or addition of features--or both. Whatever else is true, adopting later is more satisfying than adopting sooner, because you get more and better quality stuff for a lower price.
When I went to go buy a new iPhone, I fell head over heels for WP7 on the Samsung Focus. The UI is brilliant and I don't give a **** what anybody says to the contrary, Super AMOLED makes Retina display look like ****. It's not even a contest, and whenever I've shown my Focus to someone, side by side, with their iPhone 4--they've agreed unilaterally that the Focus has a better screen.
But the fact is, Microsoft launched WP7 too soon. It's missing basic, OBVIOUS features that should have been there from the outset. Custom ringtones, copy & paste, multitasking, sending SMS videos--all I can say about those features is "****ing DUH." Of COURSE those are obvious and should have been there from the outset. Any moron realizes that, and the fact that Microsoft dropped the ball on them is just ridiculous. That we're now almost FIVE MONTHS past launch and are still waiting for what amounts to a MINOR update is simply pathetic, and as a consumer I am starting to feel a little ripped off. Microsoft should not have launched WP7 in 2010. They should have waited until they at least got the obvious, ground level features that every dumb-phone for the last half a decade has had standard, out of the box, to say nothing of what Smartphones have had since at least iPhone 3GS hit.
I've been an ardent supporter of WP7 from the outset. I love the UI--it's head and shoulders above the rest. I'm patient with the small marketplace because it's growing fast and I enjoy the excitement of seeing what new goodie comes out next.
But I'm losing patience with how Microsoft has been handling the updates, and the absurd length of their release cycles. If this idiotically named NoDo update, which evidently should have been called "NoGo" instead, doesn't hit in March--then I'm done with the platform and Microsoft can suck it.
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
lekki said:
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
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Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
It is odd how the OP says so much good for the phone. Reasons upon reasons why the phone was purchased and how great it was.
Then... because of no recent updates it must be a trash phone.
Get over it or buy a new phone. Stop complaining.
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
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I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
lekki said:
I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
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My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Waiting a year is all well and good, and that's what I should have done--waited a year. I'd have had better hardware (not that there's anything wrong with the Focus--it's great hardware, but by the end of the year we'll see dual, if not quad-core phones) running a superior version of WP7.
Buying in early was a foolish mistake on my part.
stackover said:
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
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By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
I feel where you are coming from. Its a bit frustrating when they release a new phone system into a highly competitive, quick paced mobile race, and seem to (from a consumers point of view) barely be working on it. Or putting few resources into it.
The UI and general experience is absolutely amazing. And you see so much potential with the OS, and know if they were to go full speed ahead it would not only compete, but overtake a large portion of market share. But they need to act quicker. Android is enormous and moving quickly, and the iPhone/iPad already has a huge portion of the consumer market locked into Apples ecosystem. You can't take your time adding necessary features. A great looking interface, and some great games only go so far. The phone needs to function, and function well. There are many missing 'standard' features right now, and those need to be addressed.
They do need to do things quicker, and we'll see how things go over the next 6-9 months, but if they want this to succeed, they need to start showing it. And be a little more proactive and transparent. The early adopters / fans are important for any new system to grow by recommending it to friends/family ect, so making everybody angry with the lack of basic features, slow/non existent updates, and lack of official announcements ect will only hurt their chances.
However, I am still a optimist. I see the OS for what it is, and can be. I see apps that are higher quality than anything on any other platform already, and the real kicker for me was the Nokia announcement. I think Nokia's upper end releases of wp7 will be huge, as will their services like ovi maps & navigation ect. Nokia makes great quality hardware, and if this is going to be their # 1 focus, then they will have some really nice handsets, which will also force the other manufacturers to compete within the platform like on Android. I think developers and others who make necessary platform apps also saw this as a sign to take wp7 more seriously.
But it is frustrating. I anxiously await the first update, and just hope that there will be some incremental updates as well before mango.
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
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Click to collapse
You could do that with products that are failures - but you won't get much of your money back unless it's something somebody else wants.
The best outcome is if you simply bought something that didn't fit you (apparently without doing enough research), so you can make quite a bit on it if you find someone it will fit.
Of course, the latter approach would require some research, which seems to be the problem in the first place.
lekki said:
By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
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Sure it is. When iPhone came out we *****ed within months and then for 2 years before they finally got C&P
Perezbah said:
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
You're exactly right--they DID pull an Apple. The problem with that strategy is that Apple did it 4 years ago--Microsoft doesn't have 4 years to play catch up. If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
kdj67f said:
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
jasongw said:
My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see it that way. I'm an early adopter because I want some time to get to know the device, explore it's features and such before the masses get their hands on it.
I also enjoy Alpha and Beta testing products of interest to me because in the past when I've done this, I've seen improvements made to the product that started with bugs I've reported.
I guess it just depends on what you want out of the experience. I like to be part of the community that shapes new technology - not someone suckling at some kind of techno-teat all "Me! Me! Me! Boo-hoo where's my update? I'm taking my toys and going home."
If, in any part of your life, you're getting "the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time" then you're doing something wrong. Once you figure out what that is, things will go better.
Heck, most of the software I run is alpha or beta - if it's not I feel like it's old!
Beta OS are just that, despite what the uber microites believe, the King in this case MS, definitely has no clothes and very little in the way of useful apps, live with it. My HD7 is in the best place for it just now, its box.
jasongw said:
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
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Your app? Which one?
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
jasongw said:
If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
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Click to collapse
Based on what exactly? Anyone who has watched the history of MS has seen them slowly constrict their competitors with relentless product improvement.
We saw it with mobile OS's when WinMo slowly eroded Palm to the point that Palm Inc. started putting WinMo on their own devices - who would have guessed that in 1999 when Pocket PC was just a year old?
MS has stormed into the gaming console world in a short amount of time.
Phones/mobile devices are a cool space because so many companies have changed the space in short spans of time. Palm, Handspring, MS, Apple, RIM, Google - they've all had earth-shaking moments that changed the entire industry in the past 20 years.
For those willing to try it, WM7 at least has the design to appeal to the massive segment of the mobile market who's buying a device to support what they want to do instead of what the device can be made to do.
mikeeam said:
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
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I can deny it.
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
So far been pretty good reviews out there, really like how Gizmodo shows off the features in the video.
keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
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It's very nice they like it. But this "unless there's a a radical "Android redesign" is equally silly and shows they're not really serious.
Reading such positive reviews is great, normally Gizmodo has been very critical of the OS.
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
Didn't gizmodo originally like WP7? I remember a billboard here in the UK with the Gizmodo quote "This changes everything"... Then after launch they proceeded to slag it off at any opportunity.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/
Everything looks good except for the multi-tasking feature...
It looks like iOS... it'll be nicer if its vert-scrolling like the main screen.
ryude said:
Doesn't matter how good the reviews are or how good mango is. As soon as you go into a best buy or an AT&T store the sales rep will tell you not to buy a windows phone. I really hate the bias against microsoft.
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If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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So by recommending Android basically they are saying no other phone is worth buying? I find that to be biased, since I have used and even developed for Android in the past. I happen to like WP7 more now, I would have never figured that out by asking sales reps I had to learn that myself.
keyboardP said:
Gizmodo has just posted an article on WP7 (early Mango build) and they really seem to like it. Apparently the choice this fall is between iPhone and WP7 (unless there's a "killer Nokia" or a radical "Android redesign"). Not bad
Edit: Windows Phone Sauce has compiled a list of previews which you can see here - they all seem generally positive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
ohgood said:
500,000 android devices activated daily worldwide, increasing 4% each month.
apparently people are choosing something... a whole lot.
positive is positive.
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Click to collapse
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
I have seen some pretty piss poor analogies but this one takes the cake. The correlation makes absolutely no sense, and assigning a "brand" to bananas is crazy. But congrats Dole, people believe a sticker make your product better than Chiquita, or any other "generic" banana (what exactly is a generic banana?) which could have very well been picked off the same tree (since they also import bananas as well).
By the way, you walk in Best Buy and they are pushing Playbooks at you. That means they are the best option available?
There are more than a handful of customer associates that recommend what is in their best interests.
keyboardP said:
I didn't say it's not, I was just showing that the press are becoming more positive towards Windows Phone. Engadget, who are notoriously anti-MS, even had good things to say about Mango (as doministry linked). Lets not forget the fact that Android doesn't suffer from the same retail bias, so it's nice to see some objective balance being brought in.
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excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
ohgood said:
excellent response ! yes, the biased reviews are nice filtering mechanisms for folks (like you) that can see through them, and find better sources.
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
htc just stated they sold 1 out of 2 new wp7 devices, unfortunately, that's still not much to go with.
seeing reviews that show the hardwares weak points along with the softwares' is really nice. the bias makes it meh.
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Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that WP7 should be praised and others condemned. Every platform has its pros and cons (and it would be nice to not have any obvious bias in articles), but there's been, IMO, some unjust biased against WP7 in many mainstream articles simply because it has the MS tag on it.
I agree about the hard numbers as it's what's keeping a lot of developers away. There are some big names coming through though (Amazon, Angry Birds, PopCap etc..), so there may be something. I think a lot of devs, including myself, are getting some apps out there for now, hoping that Mango really delivers.
iPhone certainly has a market, but with a Mac required to develop for it, it seems a bit too much of a barrier for me. Android is okay to develop for, and I loved the openness of pretty much being able to do what you wanted. However, despite the market share of Android, there's still not much evidence that developers can make any real money either. There are too many free apps which do the same as paid apps and when users are conditioned to believe everything should be free on your platform, that's not great for devs. I thought it was interesting that Angry Birds went for a free, ad-based model rather than a paid model considering they had already had a following. Any new IPs trying to do something similar probably won't have the same large following, thus making the ad revenue pretty low.
ohgood said:
I'm still waiting for hard numbers of wp7 device sales. id imagine developers would flock to it -if- there was proof it was a viable 3rd place in handset sales. obviousely there is money in developing ios, some in android, but without numbers, are devs supposed to believe marketers ?
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Click to collapse
Isn't the Windows Marketplace growing at an unprecedented rate? Fact or fiction? So why do poor sales matter to you? It seems like it is only for bragging rights since Windows Phone has had no shortage of app development or software updates.
I understand all the good reasons why strong sales are desireous. But at this point in time it does not matter to you if your neighbour did not buy a Windows Phone. The phone is still progressing at a positive rate.
Currently 24,447 apps in the window phone marketplace. That's huge considering it's only been out since October/November of last year? We could see 50,000 apps by the end of this year. With Mango's 1500 new API's and better live tile support/multi-tasking I see apps only becoming better and better.
xsteven77x said:
If you go into a grocery store and they try to get you to buy a nice dole banana or some generic rotten trash, is that being bias? No that's reccommending the correct item. Same premise.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen some pretty stupid things posted in this forum, but this has to be the dumbest. You're basically saying that Android is the "nice Dole banana" and WP is the "trash," and therefore, all sales reps are just doing their job by offering Android only and pushing you away from WP? Some of you people man... If you don't like the platform, just shut up... Touching on the actual topic, not only have I seen good reviews, but extensive ones, which I prefer much more... Whether the opinion is good or bad, I appreciate them taking a great deal of time outlining the platform...