Related
Hey, I'm new here, and just got a HTC Desire recently, I mistakenly updated to Froyo before I knew that I couldn't root and now I want to try downgrading my HBoot to 0.8 so that I can root.
I want to follow this:
htcpedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2934
But I need a RUU (No idea what it is really) to do that, so I'm looking at this list:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=695667 but I honestly have no idea how I can see which one I need to download, so can anyone help me out there? Where can I see it on my phone? I believe it's unbranded and all that.
You can't. You're stuffed until someone breaks the new HBoot, which may be never.
mate, i understand you're new, but please read forum rules.
hboot 0.92 is not downgradeable at the moment, as explained on some already opened threads...
unfortunately, you'll have 2 wait.
Well, it looks like someone succeeded in downgrading from 0.75 to 0.66 without doing any such breaking? I'd like to try it just to confirm, what harm can it do? Haven't seen anyone actually having tried that way?
I also did read forum rules, I'm not asking for a way to downgrade it, just asking for some information in how I choose what RUU I need? >.<
no, the rule was to search before posting a new topic.
there's another thread with discussions about this subject: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=741672
Aye mate, I did search before, I've been browsing around for most of the day, what I'm asking is how do I see what RUU I need to download for my phone, not how do I downgrade HBoot.
but mate, whichever RUU you get won't fit because you have updated your HBOOT to 0.92. that's what's being discussed in the thread I pointed you...
if you dare reading...
Yeah, I'm reading, and I saw that the method was tried, I'm still interested in what a RUU is
And sorry about that, I only read like around the latest pages, not the first 2, which was the one it was on >.<
jomik said:
But I need a RUU (No idea what it is really)that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RUU stands for ROM Upgrade Utility and it checks your HBoot version prior to installing any ROM.
Hope this helps! )
off topic off topic off topic off topic off topic
there's no point in having rules and manuals if people are lazy enough to bypass them every time they have a doubt.
anyway, feeling better now andrea? relieved maybe?
enjoy your week.
lol !
yes dmpwd, I was already feeling quite well, waiting for Paul's rom as many others...i came to delete my post because it was going to be taken negatively, but I like the kindness that comes between the lines of your answers....FYI I am now quite amused, thanks!
dmpwd said:
there's no point in having rules and manuals if people are lazy enough to bypass them every time they have a doubt.
anyway, feeling better now andrea? relieved maybe?
enjoy your week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THE GUY SAID HE WAS NEW!
Forums were designed as a community where likeminded people can SHARE knowledge, WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE IN HERE nOT GET? If someone asks for genuine help, help them with useful information not Nazi rule keeping or say nothing and move along. we dont need idiots.
OT. Sry.
rodzt37 said:
THE GUY SAID HE WAS NEW!
Forums were designed as a community where likeminded people can SHARE knowledge, WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE IN HERE nOT GET? If someone asks for genuine help, help them with useful information not Nazi rule keeping or say nothing and move along. we dont need idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jup and as he just registered this would be the first thing he saw and agreed to...
Forum Rules
Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.
Although the administrators and moderators of xda-developers will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of xda-developers, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of xda-developers reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
I have read, and agree to abide by the xda-developers rules.
Forum & Marketplace Rules
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
Rule #1 and Rule #2.6... end debate.
charon72 said:
OT. Sry.
Jup and as he just registered this would be the first thing he saw and agreed to...
Forum Rules
Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.
Although the administrators and moderators of xda-developers will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of xda-developers, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of xda-developers reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
I have read, and agree to abide by the xda-developers rules.
Forum & Marketplace Rules
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
Rule #1 and Rule #2.6... end debate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there not also a rule about flaming?
Would hardly call a copy paste of the rules for flaming..
But if you saw it as that, then i apologize.
Just getting tired of post after post asking the same things by newly registered users.
I wish that reading and searching had first priority, instead of spamming the board with countless new topics.
charon72 said:
Just getting tired of post after post asking the same things by newly registered users.
I wish that reading and searching had first priority, instead of spamming the board with countless new topics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
++++++1
The rules are there for a reason, let's not forget that! To be honest, these forums are starting to get less and less useful, because of the amount of redundant threads that are being started.
If we had more robust/regular moderation, this would be less of an issue, but it seems we don't have a Desire-owning mod!
Regards,
Dave
charon72 said:
I wish that reading and searching had first priority, instead of spamming the board with countless new topics.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is my point of view and what I was trying to explain, but some people even called me a nazi/idiot for that. that's another rule-breaking activity, but anyway...
hope the OP is happy now.
I wish that reading and searching had first priority, as well as newbie help, instead of producing 2 full pages on newbie behavior, but anyway...
charon72 said:
OT. Sry.
Jup and as he just registered this would be the first thing he saw and agreed to...
Forum Rules
Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.
Although the administrators and moderators of xda-developers will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of xda-developers, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of xda-developers reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
I have read, and agree to abide by the xda-developers rules.
Forum & Marketplace Rules
FORUM RULES
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
Rule #1 and Rule #2.6... end debate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, and I did search before posting, I think people just got the question "How do I downgrade from 0.92" instead of my original question that asked what RUU I'd need to get for my phone, if it was possible. Lol.
And also, I wonder how the hell this topic got onto rules and stuff like that, so lets just leave it at this
So I have been a member on here for a while and have observed the changing trends in devices and users. But something has gotten much worse in last year and I think we need to address it in proper XDA fashion. I am not the type to complain without trying develop a solution and I am looking for some feedback from mods and users of all types, shapes and sizes here.
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections, about the wrong topics and while I think the mods do a great job they clearly can't keep up. I am no saint and will admit my own guilt on one or two occasions but some users just post meaningless post after meaningless post and really great threads are being destroyed as a result. This problem has clearly gotten out of hand and it isn't limited to just the devices I follow. A review of the forum shows this behavior in just about every device category. Just my observation...
My proposed solution to this problem I perceive is a "No thanks" button that will function in exactly the opposite way the "Thank you" button works with a few caveats I see as a huge value add.
1. If a certain post is given X amount of no thanks clicks it is automatically sent to a mod for review or perhaps even automatically deleted.
2. 1 Thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks. This would keep trolls from using it in destructive ways if you are just someone that has a few enemies. Hopefully...
3. One thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks.
4. After a user receives X amount of no thanks clicks they are redirected to the forums rules page for a period of 24 hours. No matter what link they click or how they access the site they will just be redirected to a page with the forum rules so they can study them.
I could go on listing things but I want to see what you guys think about something like this. It would allow all of us to some degree the ability to moderate our favorite threads and keep the BS posts to a minimum. User that continue to post things off topic or in the wrong threads will find themselves spending a lot of time studying the forum rules. Even if we don't add the enhanced features the no thanks button is long overdue. These people can wear their lack of respect for forum rules like a badge of shame the same way devs wear the thanks button like a badge of honor. It will give them more incentive to think about the things they post and will help ensure that good threads are not destroyed by the same question asked 100 times.
Moved to About xda-developers.com section
i agree it would bring alot of excitement to the forum , and the automatic mod contact would be a great idea for members who are a constant problem , also total negative points could show up in the profile and maybe have a forum top list for easy overview of troublemakers
also it has to be understood that it would bring a massive amount of work as ive never seen 2 types of thanks (or positive-negative)buttons in a vBulletin system
jnutz said:
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moved to About xda-developers.com section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, that just made me chuckle..
This has two ways it could go.
one way:
A bury down system, if there is a post that is irrelevant or off topic and not needed in that thread users could bury it (IE: Hide for themselves) and enough votes hides it for all members of that thread.
other way:
Exactly like thanks button but instead has no thanks. Thing is this serves really no purpose as if Post A was useful and then Post B wasn't very helpful and one got "thanked", the other "no thanked" then it would balance out to zero. In the end this means nothing as XDA is about sharing, not who has the best thanks ratio.
I dont think this is the best route for XDA as we move on and mature as there are much more important issues to focus on at the moment
Bury down system seems like a good idea, since inevitably people may reply to the poster before he recives enough -1 to bury the post and if that post is then deleted it will just make the forum read flow badly
Let me suggest that not everyone should be entitled to the -1 button to bury a post, only lets say 60-70% of the members either deicded apon by join date/thanks recived andor post count.
Another problem I've seen in regards to the new 10 post rule is that people are just trolling on other forums typing random useless things in just to increase their post count to 10.
Persistant offenders that have had their posts buried should get some sort of mail to warn them if things dont improve their account will be looked at by a moderator.
arielc said:
Bury down system seems like a good idea, since inevitably people may reply to the poster before he recives enough -1 to bury the post and if that post is then deleted it will just make the forum read flow badly
Let me suggest that not everyone should be entitled to the -1 button to bury a post, only lets say 60-70% of the members either deicded apon by join date/thanks recived andor post count.
Another problem I've seen in regards to the new 10 post rule is that people are just trolling on other forums typing random useless things in just to increase their post count to 10.
Persistant offenders that have had their posts buried should get some sort of mail to warn them if things dont improve their account will be looked at by a moderator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Report the posts of anyone who is spamming other areas, as I'll simply ban them for spamming the board. The limit is there for good reason, and people trying to get round it will be dealt with severely.
Cheers
P
jnutz said:
So I have been a member on here for a while and have observed the changing trends in devices and users. But something has gotten much worse in last year and I think we need to address it in proper XDA fashion. I am not the type to complain without trying develop a solution and I am looking for some feedback from mods and users of all types, shapes and sizes here.
This forum has a real problem with people making useless posts in the wrong sections, about the wrong topics and while I think the mods do a great job they clearly can't keep up. I am no saint and will admit my own guilt on one or two occasions but some users just post meaningless post after meaningless post and really great threads are being destroyed as a result. This problem has clearly gotten out of hand and it isn't limited to just the devices I follow. A review of the forum shows this behavior in just about every device category. Just my observation...
My proposed solution to this problem I perceive is a "No thanks" button that will function in exactly the opposite way the "Thank you" button works with a few caveats I see as a huge value add.
1. If a certain post is given X amount of no thanks clicks it is automatically sent to a mod for review or perhaps even automatically deleted.
2. 1 Thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks. This would keep trolls from using it in destructive ways if you are just someone that has a few enemies. Hopefully...
3. One thanks click cancels out X no thanks clicks.
4. After a user receives X amount of no thanks clicks they are redirected to the forums rules page for a period of 24 hours. No matter what link they click or how they access the site they will just be redirected to a page with the forum rules so they can study them.
I could go on listing things but I want to see what you guys think about something like this. It would allow all of us to some degree the ability to moderate our favorite threads and keep the BS posts to a minimum. User that continue to post things off topic or in the wrong threads will find themselves spending a lot of time studying the forum rules. Even if we don't add the enhanced features the no thanks button is long overdue. These people can wear their lack of respect for forum rules like a badge of shame the same way devs wear the thanks button like a badge of honor. It will give them more incentive to think about the things they post and will help ensure that good threads are not destroyed by the same question asked 100 times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
djgromit said:
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, seeing battery related and other FAQ can be frustrating, but they are not exactly spam, and XDA is growing and new users are discovering the world of custom ROMs and flashing because of which certain excitement and stupidity at the same time.
It's in the right spirit to welcome and be good to new members, but indeed if you notice a particular member getting out of hand or a little to n00bish please do report and we the MODs will do the needful.
We all need to strive for a balance between the developers and old school XDA members part and the new members, it can be tough; but i'm sure it can be done
JM2C's.
Hola, I would have liked to quote all of you, since you all have pro´s but there are also plenty of con´s and so I´ll only quote this last ones as reference...
djgromit said:
I love this idea. I came in to this section, getting ready to request a 'No Thanks' button myself, when I found your post. Some of the completely frustrating examples are:
1) Posting the message 'Thanks' instead of just clicking the thanks button
2) Asking what the battery life on a new ROM is, 2 minutes after the ROM has been posted
3) Asking questions that have been asked 20 times in the current thread
This problem gets exacerbated by other members posting to tell them that they're post is not useful, in the wrong place, or redundant.
If we had a way to flag these posts, maybe by adding more options to the 'report' functionality, without further polluting the thread, it would go a long way towards keeping threads clean.
Thx,
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think and welcome the idea of "flagging" certain posts after it is totally clear (I know, sometimes it seems obvious) that the post is "trash" or BS (by the way, my initials). But there are also plenty of drawbacks to the way this can be done, so no hard/personal feelings get "hurt" und thus agrrevate the situation and lead to more discontent and "wrong" behaviour. Maybe anonymously after a poll? But then again, this would also mean more work for the admins or further involucration and responsibility for the OPs (which is my opinion, that they should be held more responsible for their threads and given more authoroty with that rensponsability - but that´s a different thing and not the point here).
As for your "frustrating" examples:
1.) When the "thanks" button got introduced (again), like in so many other boards, for some it´s enough just to push that button to show their appreciation, but others "need" to write a "thank you" post (which used to be the way before) - call it education, need to get the post count up, what ever... I personally think, there is nothing wrong with either method, hitting the button, or writing a thanks post. Doesn´t harm anybody, and btw, to bad the limit is 5 per day, cause a lot of times I find very usefull posts for me (mostly more than 5 per day) and I can´t thank the users for it, unless writting a thanks post. Both of these methods are positive and encouraging...
Now to the "no thanks".... It´s neither encouraging, nor positive, nor really constructive and could lead to further discussions within a thread instead of the intended result.
2.) Answered by madnish below
3.) It´s a pitty, but it´s human lazyness, sometimes not to read the posts from others (not the questions and not the answers to those questions), or simply call it egoism, wanting a personal solution, lack of time... or simply not having payed attention. I´ve answered quite some questions asked over and over again, just like a lot of other members. You can either try to help people, and remind them to use the search and/or read the thread thoroughly before posting a question...., or you can tell them their post is BS, not usefull, has been answered a million times, etc, or you can simply ignore them. All of these lead to the same result. After a while, these users tend to read, search and think before posting, so it has a positive and beneficial effect on the mid/long term...
So YES, "flagging" would be OK, depending on how it´s put into practice.
madnish30 said:
I understand, seeing battery related and other FAQ can be frustrating, but they are not exactly spam, and XDA is growing and new users are discovering the world of custom ROMs and flashing because of which certain excitement and stupidity at the same time.
It's in the right spirit to welcome and be good to new members, but indeed if you notice a particular member getting out of hand or a little to n00bish please do report and we the MODs will do the needful.
We all need to strive for a balance between the developers and old school XDA members part and the new members, it can be tough; but i'm sure it can be done
JM2C's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I´m kinda representing the noob´s side. I´m only a simple and yes, stupid user. No dev, no technical background, but lot´s of questions... Maybe xda used to be different and only for developers, as the name states, but times have changed and also the "kind" of members. The profile is no longer only dev´s and tec´s, but also a lot of users with different expertice (less), skills (other), background, knowledge, age, education, culture, language, etc.
All users should me more responsible, but hey, we are all human and act according to different standards, believes, etc. The only way to solve this problem is by all enforcing and encouraging the rules, "helping" out the OPs, Moderatrors & Admins to keep the threads as integer, clean and "on topic" as possible. I know there are times when some posts are interpreted (and actually are) off topic, but sometimes this is also beneficial for the users and thus for the thread itself.
Basically all this is just to say, it´s not about all that can or needs to be done by rules, limitations, mods and admins - it´s about what WE can ACTIVELY do to improve the situation and avoid it becoming worse...
Btw, I would have pushed the "no thanks" button for this request. Not because I don´t think that it´s a good thing, simply because I don´t agree with it. Very good innitiative, but in my honest and humble opinion, bad judgement, so YES, thank you, but no thanks
Hello, i wonder if you can grant with moderation priviledges to Recognized devs???
I come from LG Optimus One forum, and as im reading here theres not even a moderator for our forum...
(I wont apply to become a moderator since i dont have time and i've never been a moderator before, so, next...)
Anyway, devs threads are flooded with spam and users askin the same questions again and again and spamming again and again... Old moderator "Zecanilis" performance wasnt good as well (forum was the same with/ without him)...
So i wanted to know if you can grant recognized devs from my forum (like francisco.franco, ciaox, mik_os, andy...) the power to moderate at least his threads...
thx in advance
PS: crap posts are increasing!! --> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1231440
There was recently a recruitment drive for new mods and if that forum currently does not have an fsm assigned then I'm sure one will be shortly.
Check the link in my sig for a comprehensive list of forum mods to see whether one is assigned to your devices forum.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......
And spam strikes back..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16949645&postcount=5921
They keep spamming spamming all day, and theres no one there to put order ,, whats the problem on giving some power to recognized devs??
A hero???
Hello??? someone reads this??? is conantroutman the only one there?? hello????
In the meantime:
Striking news: SPAM BEAST TOOK OUR FORUM AND THREATENS WITH EATING IT!!!... Wheres is the hero when we need one (or a bunch [i.e Recognized Devs])
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1233991
Please, we need an active moderator . It is becoming unbearable amount of post about questions that were answered many times, other fights and other spam among other things is in the section of the P500
There is a discussion about that between recognized devs and xda staff... However, conclusion is that RDs can't have these permissions because the abuse is possible - e.g. devs removing bad comments and leave only the glorifying comments and make his work a masterpiece. I can't speak in name of xda staff but I hope it'll be solved somehow, but the problem is that it's hard to find acceptable solution for everyone.
Blagus said:
conclusion is that RDs can't have these permissions because the abuse is possible - e.g. devs removing bad comments and leave only the glorifying comments and make his work a masterpiece.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, its that or spamming... and certainly not all RD's have this glorifying attitude...
Also if they r granted w/ powers just to manage their threads that would not be an issue since general forum exist, reports functions exist, and it would be easy to track a bad developer and bring his work down...
Also the fact that spam users are in a much bigger proportion than RD's...
IMHO...
Garuxa said:
Please, we need an active moderator . It is becoming unbearable amount of post about questions that were answered many times, other fights and other spam among other things is in the section of the P500
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. The lack of an active moderator is the real problem. Giving the RD this responsibility would cause more harm than good.
I found out in the Mods list that we can PM the Senior Mods for reporting for problems, as there is no one assigned. Let´s do so then.
kbzona said:
Well, its that or spamming... and certainly not all RD's have this glorifying attitude...
Also if they r granted w/ powers just to manage their threads that would not be an issue since general forum exist, reports functions exist, and it would be easy to track a bad developer and bring his work down...
Also the fact that spam users are in a much bigger proportion than RD's...
IMHO...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has always been the case that moderators who are also developers are not allowed to moderate their own threads.
This is a clear cut conflict of interest.
Bottom line is that RD's will probably never be given such priviledges as that would contradict long standing forum rules.
In other news.....
I'm going to PM MikeChannon (forum admin extraordinaire) and volunteer to help you guys out.
Watch this space.
Thank you Conan, yes, we are hoping to fill Moderator vacancies in a week, maybe two. The Committee that sifts through Moderator Applicants has had an unprecedented number to look through in the last round. Normally we get maybe 20 applicants, but in the last round we got 270 and it's not surprising it's taking longer to process.
Each applicant's posting history, helpfulness and other more general abilities have to be examined carefully and although we know some forums are having to be watched by Senior Mods at present, we think this is better than rushing in Mods who have not been checked thoroughly.
In addition some improvements to help Users report problems more easily will be rolled out soon, so please don't feel we aren't interested or don't care. In the meantime, you can still use the existing reporting system and it will still be seen by Senior Mods even if no Forum Mod is allocated.
Hello fellow XDA-Users,
I have been a member of this forum for quite some time now, and currently spend my time in the Optimus 2X section.
People from there might recognize me from my guide on how to build cyanogenmod7 from source and some bits and pieces
from the O2X section.
Some of you might know, that LG delayed the update for this phone quite a bit, which brings me to the purpose of this
thread: The amount of spam and Off-Topic in the general section as well as the development section has blown up
insanely over the last 2-3 months, and this has caused a lot of tension between users and mods, among users and of course
users and devs. While, in case of the general section, this might be bearable, it is not for the dev section, since the real
devs can't work properly because all the useful information gets buried under the same questions and off-topic again and again.
Just recently, a mod was required to close a thread containing bleeding edge information and made it clear that he had no
intention of reopening it again.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this, and I want to dump my thoughts for a solution in this thread. While
I don't know to which degree these can be implemented or if they might contradict the philosphy or user-rights of XDA,
I still want to post them. These ideas apply first and foremost to the dev section. I see the dev section as a read-only
section for anyone that doesn't have anything to contribute towards the development, no matter how long he has been
here or how many posts he already made. Therefore I propose the following mechanics to keep the dev sections clear of Spam.
Allow only recognized developers, contributors and the other verified ranks in the forums to start threads in the dev section.
This prevents off topic threads from being created in the first place. If someone new really wants to start a new thread because
he really has something useful to share, I imagine some sort of verification process where users can submit their threads and
moderators, or maybe even the parties allowed to post already, to review and approve the topics. This will create additional workload
on the moderators, but I believe it won't be that much more compared to the endless reports they are receiving right now. Also, allowing
a larger base of users (recognized contributors/developers) to approve the topics will reduce the workload even further.
To prevent the spamming of existing threads, apply the same strategy as mentioned above with the following changes:
For a specific threads, the thread starter (and possibly a list of users defined by the thread starter) can either approve single
posts or users in general to being able to post in the thread. The user, after being approved, will be able to post freely in the
thread, or maybe even in all threads by the approving thread starter.
I know these are very strict rules, but since they are only applied to the dev sections, I think they are worth considering, since it
will reduce all posts made in this section to those really dealing with dev stuff. Like I already mentioned, it may increase the workload
on whatever mods/users will have to approve. This gave life to my idea of expanding this userbase to the recognized developers/contributors
as well.
I see that my concept is anything but precisely laid out, but I think it represents a good base to create a system, that will make the
dev sections of this forum what they used to be: A place where developers can develop without having to read through pages of spam and
off topic and thus be more productive and less pissed off. The approval also puts another step into the process of thread/post creation
that might make users reconsider if they really want to post or perform a simple search first.
Thanks for your time!
Also, in order for this thread to be recognized, please give it a good rating. Thank you.
aMpeX
edit: Just to make myself clear again, this approach is far from perfect, but I believe with some input and discussion, we can make it so.
Please feel free to post your opinions, corrections or extensions to this idea.
I will try to collect some ideas from the discussion to summarize it here:
Inspired by anasdcool71's post:
Give OPs the opportunity to decide whether they want to moderate their thread, or accept any comment that is made during thread creation
by ticking a checkbox for example.
Hear, hear. I have said almost exactly the same thing myself before now and couldn't agree more with your thoughts. It's not an ideal solution, but maybe XDA need to take an uber-strict approach to stop this destruction by its own users.
this topic needs ofc a lot of discussion, expecially since i know neither about the capabilities of the code nor how the owners of XDA want to approach it.
I feel by starting this discussion we can iron out a system that works.
I feel that there is simply no other solution than being a little strict on the dev sections. Users still have enough room to post in the other sections, but in the dev sections, where all the magic happens, this is not helping at all, so I think it makes sense restricting these sections in that manner.
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval. And as far as the case for spam goes, the OP may inform the particular mod to remove the posts.
anasdcool71 said:
The 2 features are quite good, but still there are certain restrictions.
For the 1st point :-
You said that RCs, RDs and other verified ranks should be allowed to create a thread. Well, most RCs have been given the rank because of their polite and courteous nature throughout the site, and some of their work on guides, ROMs and kernels. RDs are kinda the same, just that their work is an expert one. So basically Senior Members or Members create threads for their ROMs and kernels in the dev section, and then if their work is good enough, they are appointed as RCs and RDs as per the requirement. So this feature cannot extend to only RCs and RDs as it may block the opportunities of other members to become one. Even if a Senior Member is allowed in this feature to create a thread, many good rom devs, who might be new to XDA, may feel the frustration to complete not 10, but 100 posts!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know this approach wasn't the best. My chain of thaught was simply to try to restrict the userbase that can start a thread. To enable non RDs and RCs to start threads, I included the idea of an approval by either MODs and/or RDs and RCs. After a user has been approved once, he retains the right to start threads and post in the dev section.
I guess my bigger picture is to build a welldefined group of users allowed to post in the dev section, and also easen the way for this group to include new members, since I believe creating a new verified group and manage applications is just too much work.
anasdcool71 said:
For the 2nd point :-
The OP of the thread might not know the user himself so he might not choose users correctly. Some users holding only the Junior Member or Member title might know a lot of info about that particular rom/kernel. Furthermore, this feature will really prove tiresome for the OP as there will be a lot of users waiting for his/her approval.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is also a weak point of my proposition, my idea was to provide some sort of inbox where OPs can see the posts submitted and simply approve the ones he deems fit, thereby weeding out the useless information and SPAM. It is a lot of work ofc, but I, for one, would prefer a clean and moderated dev thread over one bloated with Spam.
Maybe one could let the OP decide which model he wants his thread to follow by, by simply ticking a checkbox during thread creation.
Interesting idea.
I believe I've brought up all of the above suggestions at some point or another (not dismissing or anything, just I have looked into this for a long period of time, several years now in fact!)
I'll try to summarise the benefits and disadvantages of each key suggestion:
1) Allow only "Recognized *" and above to make new threads in dev.
I'd love nothing more than this... The trouble is users wouldn't want it! They will complain if we implement this, since not every developer on XDA is an RD... Some may not have applied, some may have applied but not had it processed yet. Others may have applied and been accepted (but we only add the users to the RD group once per month to reduce time spent on it), and some may have been rejected for not meeting the criteria.
This would end up upsetting more people than it would benefit, causing more arguing and bickering from them
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
We've got a team of mods who are impartial and can deal with issues without considering if a post is "beneficial" to user perception of the developer or not (like a dev would do if he was approving posts).
We do constantly try to think of new ways to solve these problems, and you've given me a few new ones to think about
Thanks
maybe then we should focus on the part of my idea that easens the entry into the group of users that are allowed to posts, not necesarily tieing it to the RC RD status, but unblocking the restrictions individually and extending the committee to administer these admissions from MODs and Admins to RD/RCs.
This would require a one-time effort by new devs, submitting their new ROM/thread to the dev sections, and having it approved by aforementioned group.
pulser_g2 said:
2) Restrict who can post in a thread.
This is what we already aim to do with the 10 post rule. The trouble is that if we raise it, it keeps out genuine contributors. If we lower it, we get crap through. Right now, we think 10 is about the optimum, but that's not to say we're not adverse to ever changing it if needed.
The issue with giving the OP control over who can post is that some people would abuse this. For example, I don't imagine many devs who would "approve" posts critical of their ROM, or giving negative feedback on it. Part of the way XDA works is it ensures that every thread is outwith the control of its owner, so feedback isn't being hidden or removed because it isn't agreed with by the OP of the thread. That's why XDA doesn't follow the trend of a few other sites to give thread owners moderator abilities in their own threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree totally about the 10 post limit.. As i have seen many examples of the spam/useless post by newbies/noobs who post in dev section... As our samsung galaxy y duos dev section when created had not got this restriction on it (just an accidental miss i feel).. but its corrected now.. so i have seen how worse it may get if this limit is revoked.. and i have been thinking of an idea as many times i have come across new users complaining that they know about android stuff and they wanted to help dev in development and by the time they complete 10 useful post routine valuable time will be wasted etc... So i thought of this idea when i read the op's message in this thread...
How about providing OP a option to exclude a newbie member who has not made a single post yet to make posts in dev section..? So that if the dev feels/knows the user will be good for his thread and he can contribute to development?
and lets also put another rule to keep spammers away.. as there is a loop hole in my suggestion.. which is when a spammer may create 2 accounts and in one account he will obtain 10 posts and create a thread in dev section.. then spam the thread with another account by making him exception..
So we can add this option to OP of the thread only if the thread has been say one month / one week old... as this will make sure that the thread is not created for spamming and thus it also ensures actual development is going on in the thread and the dev is known.. this exclusion is only for that thread on dev sub forum.. i dont know this may be a too much workload on server..
I was suggesting this exclusion method because i have seen around 5-10 members who PM me whenever they have some issue with my kernel or any other rom related to my device for that matter... i am happy and i have no issues to help them at all.. i have also kindly suggested them to make 10 valuable/useful posts in Q & A section and post in my threads instead of M as it might help other users too who may have same issue/doubt.. but i really cant say it directly into their faces and they may not understand my point ... so i have been interacting with such users through PM and i feel they should have interacted more with forums instead of just one person.. and there might be many others who might have contacting through PM only..
So please consider this..
Also this really is a great suggestion too...
anasdcool71 said:
@pulser_g2 - The if-else statement in your sig is really great. :good:
And I've come up with a request. I've seen that many new users don't actually know/get the reason behind the 10-post limit. I'm not talking anything particularly about spammers, but there are some good users who just don't know the reason. I've just seen so many posts in so many threads saying "this 10-post limit is so frustrating","i have to PM the dev","i can't even report a bug",etc. Not one or two or 10, but many posts like this. So my request was that they'd be directed to that thread "10-post count limit in development fora", after they register. I'm sure many of them will understand. After all, it isn't that hard to get to 10 posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an eternal problem than,us, Admins,Mods and all Recognized Tribe against which we are constantly fighting.
In the RC'stribe, we try to think and are trying to find solutions that would enable to reduce the number of useless posts.
I says reduce, cause we can't delete all of these posts.
But the real problem, it's a mentality problem due to Internet.
Actually, with Internet, people can and wanting all, now and quickly. I'm writing a question, I want my answer now!
A large majority of users don't take the time for read and seek. They want everything quickly and now.
And against this fact, we cannot fight!!
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
pulser_g2 said:
For whoever mentioned it, the ten post message does link and explain why... But nobody reads it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think he means the 10 post limit sticky thread is already linked and also its explained why its there but still no new user reads it..
philos64 said:
Why ? I don't understand what you mean exactly
I have wrote a post on RC chat about this problem and send the link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
pulser_g2 said:
I mean that someone mentioned perhaps making it clearer to users why they can't post etc...
I replied to say that the message already explains this and links them to a thread with information
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry @pulser_g2
But I understand what you mean
It's better clear. Thanks
Sorry, I'm not so sure if I should post here or the Q/A section.
From the Q&A (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=916775), only the moderators can delete threads. But since my thread hasn't been followed by anyone, I think I deserve the right to modify or delete it. Especially the article isn't finished yet and I'm not satisfied with that article.
Now that the moderator clearly refused to delete that post, I'm kind of disappointed.
XDA is a top-notch technology forum, and at the same time I hope a moderator should be educated more than a tech student. XDA should pay attention to author's right, especially not to do something against author's will. I'm not asking for deleting all my posts, which may cause troubles for the forum, I'm asking deleting ONE article.
Anyone can help me or support this issue?
Did you actually ask the moderator to delete the thread after it was closed OR are you just assuming that it won't be deleted?
A little context would help here.
Regarding deletion of posts/threads, we only generally delete them if it's spam (either commercial or a member spamming rubbish posts in order to get posting access to a development thread). The only other possible exception would be if the post/thread served no purpose whatsoever. That isn't the case with your thread though.
A member may be browsing through that forum at some point and stumble across your thread. Although your post isn't completed, they may still have some thoughts on something you've written and may choose to discuss it with others in the relevant thread (the one which was linked to in the closing message).
If you wish for other members to see your completed post, I'd suggest posting it in the relevant thread so that even if a member finds your current closed thread, they'll be able to click the link and find your full post there anyway.
You're, of course, free to ask that moderator if they'll reconsider deleting your post but I doubt it due to the reasoning above.
I hope this helps
I asked the moderator for real. His answer is like yours. But I don't think you answered anything.
You missed the point. I prefer to discuss this issue from aspects apart from what you (moderators) will do.
The point is: if your method (what you're doing) is proper or legitimate?
You should consider to open the deleting privilege for all users limitedly. Or to inform all users that 'we moderator' have the right to deprive your right of editing your articles, and then get their agreement. Please have a serious conversation with whom ever really runs this forum and the users in this forum.
At least now, I can't find a dedicated rule, so you should 'always' allow people to delete their articles.
It's odd for me that I have to ask moderator's permission for deleting my own work. especially it is not going to effect the running of the forum.
KidCarter93 said:
Did you actually ask the moderator to delete the thread after it was closed OR are you just assuming that it won't be deleted?
A little context would help here.
Regarding deletion of posts/threads, we only generally delete them if it's spam (either commercial or a member spamming rubbish posts in order to get posting access to a development thread). The only other possible exception would be if the post/thread served no purpose whatsoever. That isn't the case with your thread though.
A member may be browsing through that forum at some point and stumble across your thread. Although your post isn't completed, they may still have some thoughts on something you've written and may choose to discuss it with others in the relevant thread (the one which was linked to in the closing message).
If you wish for other members to see your completed post, I'd suggest posting it in the relevant thread so that even if a member finds your current closed thread, they'll be able to click the link and find your full post there anyway.
You're, of course, free to ask that moderator if they'll reconsider deleting your post but I doubt it due to the reasoning above.
I hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may not think I answered anything but I did the best I could given the information you provided in the first post.
You stated that a moderator wouldn't delete your post and then said that you'd like to be able to do so by yourself.
I then explained why we hardly ever delete posts and gave examples of when we do delete posts and a possible exception to deletions.
Post deletion is moderation, therefore only moderators are able to do so.
There's probably quite a few reasons (which I can't think of, off the top of my head) as to why members can't simply delete their own posts.
One main reason I can think of has already been mentioned by yourself. "I'm not asking for deleting all my posts, which may cause troubles for the forum..."
If the admins were to change the permissions to allow anyone to delete their own posts, it could very easily cause trouble for the forum, not to mention a huge nonsensical mess.
I know you did your best. If it sounds any rude to you I got to say sorry. I didn' t mean it. I was trying to point out that we have to discuss reasonably. You have to think further.
If your main reason is 'very easily cause trouble for the forum', then I have to say some sites do support post deletion, and it doesn't cause trouble at all. Any as I said, I recommend enable this function limitedly, at least allowing people to delete their article if that article isn't followed. Besides, the moderators are not robots, you can tell if the deletion is dangerous. If it is not, you moderators shouldn't refuse to do so, because it is against author's right. In other words, it is wrong you moderators refuse such requests if you moderators have no good reason.
You see, I refute your argument. That is discussion I'm talking about.
KidCarter93 said:
You may not think I answered anything but I did the best I could given the information you provided in the first post.
You stated that a moderator wouldn't delete your post and then said that you'd like to be able to do so by yourself.
I then explained why we hardly ever delete posts and gave examples of when we do delete posts and a possible exception to deletions.
Post deletion is moderation, therefore only moderators are able to do so.
There's probably quite a few reasons (which I can't think of, off the top of my head) as to why members can't simply delete their own posts.
One main reason I can think of has already been mentioned by yourself. "I'm not asking for deleting all my posts, which may cause troubles for the forum..."
If the admins were to change the permissions to allow anyone to delete their own posts, it could very easily cause trouble for the forum, not to mention a huge nonsensical mess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
abnoob said:
I know you did your best. If it sounds any rude to you I got to say sorry. I didn' t mean it. I was trying to point out that we have to discuss reasonably. You have to think further.
If your main reason is 'very easily cause trouble for the forum', then I have to say some sites do support post deletion, and it doesn't cause trouble at all. Any as I said, I recommend enable this function limitedly, at least allowing people to delete their article if that article isn't followed. Besides, the moderators are not robots, you can tell if the deletion is dangerous. If it is not, you moderators shouldn't refuse to do so, because it is against author's right. In other words, it is wrong you moderators refuse such requests if you moderators have no good reason.
You see, I refute your argument. That is discussion I'm talking about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure what rights you are talking about as you are posting thing on a privately owned forum. What is posted here us at the moderators discretion. If it is not harmful then we close it and let it be. You can edit your post after it is closed and say remove any links in said post if I remember right. Or you can ask a mod to do it for you. Users will not be allowed any deletion powers at all. This is for many reasons including keeping issues down with post count requirements and thanks meters.