Develop Bugs

lowsy memory management

Problem:
Certain apps that must remain in memory (e.g. PhotoContacts) get knocked out by WinCE's wonderful memory management mechanisms, after other programs are loaded.
What's even more hilarious, Program Memory (RAM) never goes below
~45MB (I have 77.57MB in total dedicated to RAM), yet apps do get terminated.
1. How can all that memory be utilized fully? Is there a way to descrease the threshold? E.g. terminate apps when only 10MB remains
2. Is there a way to "lock" an app in memory? Or mark it as "system" so it's not touched by memory manager under any circumstances.
P.S. My device is PDA2k
thanks

Applications mysteriously keep exiting?

I don't get it, at first I was thinking maybe I had exited programs that I didn't recall having done so, but now I'm convinced that something is killing programs on my Tilt 2. For instance I'll download something in PIE, open it in Resco Explorer and go back to PIE and it's closed, I have to re-open it.. or I'll browse somewhere in Resco, launch a program, and when I go back to Resco it's closed..
Unfortunately things like Flexmail this is happening on as well.. It's running for a while then I look and it's no longer running.
Anyone have any guesses? The thing has 70M+ of ram free, often more! My Tilt never had more than 30M free and it never did this crap unless I ran something really big like iGO.

khaytsus said:
I don't get it, at first I was thinking maybe I had exited programs that I didn't recall having done so, but now I'm convinced that something is killing programs on my Tilt 2. For instance I'll download something in PIE, open it in Resco Explorer and go back to PIE and it's closed, I have to re-open it.. or I'll browse somewhere in Resco, launch a program, and when I go back to Resco it's closed..
Unfortunately things like Flexmail this is happening on as well.. It's running for a while then I look and it's no longer running.
Anyone have any guesses? The thing has 70M+ of ram free, often more! My Tilt never had more than 30M free and it never did this crap unless I ran something really big like iGO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Load up Schap's Advanced Config and go to HTC Task Manager --> Memory Threshold. Mine is defaulted to 9.5MB which seems a little high (at least coming from my Hermes). Not sure if that's it or not, because as you say there's usually quite a bit of free memory. Might have a leaky program though which is causing the closures.

Toleraen said:
Load up Schap's Advanced Config and go to HTC Task Manager --> Memory Threshold. Mine is defaulted to 9.5MB which seems a little high (at least coming from my Hermes). Not sure if that's it or not, because as you say there's usually quite a bit of free memory. Might have a leaky program though which is causing the closures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't think so, as I'm not seeing any memory creep or anything like that, seeminly for zero reason programs are being killed. I agree it's likely a memory threshold, etc..
I run a memory monitor that draws a bar at the top of the screen called qwertymemory so I see how much ram is in use all the time. I HAVE seen nasty programs where the bar will start dropping in the past, but I have yet to see that on my Tilt 2. And as you say, why would this happen with 60-70M free?
Yeah, my memory is also (near, odd number...) 9M. I'm half tempted to turn off "Auto Kill" and see if the problem goes away.

I've been having a similar problem but only with Opera so not sure if it's connected.
When multiple tabs are open and I go into the start menu or such like (Opera is never on screen) it exits without notification. Didn't used to.

dik23 said:
I've been having a similar problem but only with Opera so not sure if it's connected.
When multiple tabs are open and I go into the start menu or such like (Opera is never on screen) it exits without notification. Didn't used to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like Opera to browse, but I wish it wouldn't run at boot, I haven't yet figured out what starts it up after a reset. I need to at least do the registry tweak to be able to kill it I guess.. Lots of ram there.
But I haven't used it that much to notice that.. but it makes me wonder if there isn't some kind of crazy problem that's either killing or crashing programs.

I have had the problem with messenger, with no other programs running - I thought it was me going mad (again)

khaytsus - I have prevented Opera from running at start using
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=532948

dik23 said:
khaytsus - I have prevented Opera from running at start using
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=532948
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet, thanks! I wonder if this matters since I'm not using TF3D but I'm going to try it regardless.

Okay, this is totally pissing me off. Today I went out geocaching, and with my Tilt here's what I typically did:
With 35-40M free ram: Ran GeoNiche in Styletap, ran TrackMe, and Tom Tom. Tracked my progress, navigated via car from cache to cache, then zeroed in on the cache with Styletap. I didn't have to do anything kludgy, this was on top of my normal load of programs, including some fairly large things like S2U2, KaiserNotify, lots of Today plugins, etc.. Again, 35-40M free ram typically.
Same exact scenario with my Tilt 2 with 75-90M of free ram I could not run all three programs at once without one of them exiting. Never did my ram go below 50M free. I disabled the HTC Task autokill thing in Advanced Config (and soft reset) and it didn't change things.. This is driving me batty.
Anyone have any other suggestions? I wouldn't think so, but is it a possible max programs limitation I'm running into?

Crap, I just noticed that without any extra programs running, MemMaid said there were 27 processes. As I understand it, Windows Mobile has a limit of 32, so I bet that's what was causing me trouble earlier.
I've just killed a few non-essential things (qwertymemory, arialbattery, ms voice control, opera9, tmail) and left the rest (including s2u2) and launched TomTom, GeoNiche (in styletap), GCzII, TrackMe.. All running fine now, at least for the moment.
I guess I need to optimize what's running at boot.. Meh.
Yep, I'm getting pretty convinced that's what's going on. I've just booted my Kaiser and it has 23 processes at bootup, gives a lot more headroom for new processes. I have my Tilt 2 down to 23 now, with some sacrifices.

WM has a limit of 32 processes ?! Why ?!
What's the point of all that RAM then ? The likely hood of me ever video editing on my phone is rather low since I own a real computer to do that stuff.
Microsoft will never cease to confuse me with their strange ways

dik23 said:
WM has a limit of 32 processes ?! Why ?!
What's the point of all that RAM then ? The likely hood of me ever video editing on my phone is rather low since I own a real computer to do that stuff.
Microsoft will never cease to confuse me with their strange ways
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the link I put in there, it explains it... The next base of WinCE fixes it, but traditionally it's 32. Why? Who knows... It's not a big deal until you find that with a normal installation with a few programs you're sitting at around 28-29.
I've still found it blowing away apps sometimes, I think sometimes there's just one or two more things that happen in the background (weather updates, maybe gpstoday, who knows) and one of my apps goes poof. I have it down to 24 at startup now too. But after a while various other things sneak into it and I find it around 27-28 again.

Just had another look and can't see a link. Sorry if I'm being dumb

dik23 said:
Just had another look and can't see a link. Sorry if I'm being dumb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Must have been in another thread I posted it.. Search the whole forum for windows mobile 32 processes and you'll find several references, although I can't find the thread I found with concrete info.. It's clearly 32....

take from storage mem and use for program ram?
I have had the same things going on I have although been at times idling from 59% to 79% this is if I clean ram 3 do not open any programs and check the phone after 15 min or so. I have been searching for a way to increase the program ram size from 173.3mb to over 200mb taking from storages 266.3 if need be. as of now I have "reg edit hklm/software/htc/resproxy/sharememsize=0" and that has helped a lot but I install only what I really need to in phone storage so I would really like to make more use of it by dedicating it to program ram. p

jinx1 said:
I have had the same things going on I have although been at times idling from 59% to 79% this is if I clean ram 3 do not open any programs and check the phone after 15 min or so. I have been searching for a way to increase the program ram size from 173.3mb to over 200mb taking from storages 266.3 if need be. as of now I have "reg edit hklm/software/htc/resproxy/sharememsize=0" and that has helped a lot but I install only what I really need to in phone storage so I would really like to make more use of it by dedicating it to program ram. p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My issue, as far as I know, really had nothing to do with ram.. It was processes.
I still have this problem sometimes, but it's NOWHERE as bad as it was before I removed a few things I really didn't need and have my 'typical' process load down to around 25.
BTW, I've heard of people having problems after changing the shared mem size to 0, one I think was related to multiple tabs in Opera.. Just keep it in mind.
Do you really have that much problem with free ram? I never had any problem with my Tilt and I typically had 25-30m at any time, and on my Tilt 2 I generally have 60-70m... Accounting (guestimating) for additional space for WVGA graphics I'd think that's more than equivalent..

More threads on this..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600210
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600356

this always happens to phones that have been flashed to much there no fixing this. Your just plain fu?k*d sorry.

zarpy said:
this always happens to phones that have been flashed to much there no fixing this. Your just plain fu?k*d sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's really all I can say..

Need Help. How do I get to the Internal Storage area

OK, I got my Sprint TP2 yesterday and was playing around with it. I installed my SD card that had some files on it and when I tapped on one document file by mistake it "unzipped" it to the internal storage completely filling it.
I've looked all over but cannot seem to locate the internal storage memeory on the phone.
HELP!
Thanks in Advance.

OK, never mind. But.....
OK, after I opened it back up today I started looking at it like my old PDA and found the file and deleted it.
But..
I'd like to free up more internal memory as it shows I only have 158MB free. And only 59MB free for program memory. I'll be getting a 16GB card soon to replace my 2GB I have but I'd like to have more internal memory.
What programs/files can I delete safely from my Sprint TP2 to free up more space?

JohnMcD348 said:
I'd like to free up more internal memory as it shows I only have 158MB free. And only 59MB free for program memory. I'll be getting a 16GB card soon to replace my 2GB I have but I'd like to have more internal memory.
What programs/files can I delete safely from my Sprint TP2 to free up more space?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
158MB of "Storage" memory is actually quite a bit -- it's 60% open/empty. Considering that a lot of applications are less than a 1 MB, and a huge one is 5MB -- you still have room to install dozens directly to the device. To minimize use of Storage, install as many apps as possible to your card. And, wherever possible, configure settings on apps to store their data to the card...and set the camera to save to the card, etc. Even a 2GB card is a lot of space -- unless you're carrying full-length, high-quality movies.
Program memory gets filled up by stuff that's currently running, so deleting installed programs won't free up more of that -- unless these programs run automatically/all-the-time.

MCbrian said:
158MB of "Storage" memory is actually quite a bit -- it's 60% open/empty. Considering that a lot of applications are less than a 1 MB, and a huge one is 5MB -- you still have room to install dozens directly to the device. To minimize use of Storage, install as many apps as possible to your card. And, wherever possible, configure settings on apps to store their data to the card...and set the camera to save to the card, etc. Even a 2GB card is a lot of space -- unless you're carrying full-length, high-quality movies.
Program memory gets filled up by stuff that's currently running, so deleting installed programs won't free up more of that -- unless these programs run automatically/all-the-time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, if you have 158MB storage free on the phone right now, be sure to take a screenshot if it so you can look back later and remember "back when" you had still had that much free space
MCBrian is right, moving stuff to your memory card is the best way to free up space on the phone's memory and keep it from filling up unneccesarily. Like he said, first change the camera settings to always save to the card, otherwise that will always eat into your available on-board storage, and quickly. I would also suggest going into the current album of pics on the phone, deleting anything you don't want to save, and move whatever you do want to save into a "pics" folder on your card (HTC's photo album can include pics saved there as well). Same for music...store any and all of it on the card, not the phone's memory. The one caveat with that is that the HTC music player (the music tab in touchflo) doesn't always find music on the card, not for me anyway, but I never liked that player anyway.
Managing my memory that way has given me enough space that even with dozens of programs on the phone, all of them installed to the phone's memory, I still have 95MB free space for programs on there. In fact, I still have a fair amount of junk (stuff I tried but don't use, etc) in there that I need to go clear out. Installing some of your programs to the memory card can help too, but if you're careful you can keep enough storage memory on there available to be able to avoid ever needing to do that (and the hassle that comes with trying to figure out which programs are ok with being installed on the card, as well as managing/maintaining separate install locations).
If you're going to start using file explorer to dig around in your directories, I highly recommend you first install File Explorer Extension. It simply adds a lot of the stock destop file explorer functionality that's missing in the mobile version ("open with>" in the context menu, for example!)...makes a HUGE difference in ease of use when digging through your file structure. I attachted it below, "fexploreext v2.05.CAB"
For keeping your RAM ("running" memory) from growing too fast, I also suggest running the other 2 cabs I have attached below (SSK TP2 Dynamic Resource Proxy.cab and nopushinternet.cab), they make a big difference in the active memory management on the TP2, you'll probably see a noticable difference right after soft-reset.

Thanks for those CABs. I'm pretty good at managing the storage on things like this, I just couldn' find the files/folder on the newer phone using the options available in WinMo6+. I've been using an Axim for years runnign WinMo5 and earlier versions. Storage cards are pretty easy for me as I'm use to running stuff between the Main/CF/SD cards that I had on the Axim. I just have alot to learn about the newer 6.1 OS. Probably, by the time I get used to 6.1, Sprint will come out with 6.5(6,7,whatever) and I'll get to relearn everything all over again.
If there are any other programs you'd recommend to help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.

JohnMcD348 said:
Thanks for those CABs. I'm pretty good at managing the storage on things like this, I just couldn' find the files/folder on the newer phone using the options available in WinMo6+. I've been using an Axim for years runnign WinMo5 and earlier versions. Storage cards are pretty easy for me as I'm use to running stuff between the Main/CF/SD cards that I had on the Axim. I just have alot to learn about the newer 6.1 OS. Probably, by the time I get used to 6.1, Sprint will come out with 6.5(6,7,whatever) and I'll get to relearn everything all over again.
If there are any other programs you'd recommend to help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the file structure is obviously still pretty much the same windows-standard, just some locations moved around. The bad news is that none of the programs installed by default in the stock rom are removable through the normal remove programs dialog, or any 3rd-party app I've seen. However you can just go perform the same steps manually by deleting any folders matching the program/publisher's name in these locations:
<root>/program files
<root>/application data
<root>/windows/start menu
...and then searching in the registry to delete any keys in there for the program as well. You'll need a registry editor to do that, I've attached my favorite free one, PHM Regedit...just search your registry by the name of the program you're removing. If you're not familiar with messing around in the registry, there's guides available here, let me know if you need me to point you in that direction. And, as always, be SURE to make a backup copy of your registry (PHM can handle that for you) before making any changes.
Here's a couple of other utilites I've found useful:
Advanced_Configuration_Tool_v3.3.cab -Gives you acccess to all sorts of advanced UI and system configuration options, a favorite and often-referenced tool here at xda.
Extra Camera Modes.cab -unlocks some capture modes that the TP2 camera is capable of, but aren't enabled from the factory on US models. New modes include MMS video, Burst, Sport, and geotagged images
SDK certs.cab -windows authentification certifcates necessary for installing many hacks/apps/cabs/etc that are available here
DivXPlayer_PPC.cab -a lean, mean .avi player from the people who came up with DivX (the codec standard, not the movie rental crap lol). I rip my DVD's at home to ~700MB DivX files, save them on my memory card, and use this app to play them...it gives far better performance and quality than any of the other players I've tried.

Very Much appreciated.
Now, I seem to have another probelm and I don't know if it's my unfamiliarirty with the newer Sync Center or am I just doing something wrong, or if it's an issue with the programs I've got.
I'm new to both Win7 and WinMo6+(and touch flo, etc). Up to now I had XP(w/ ActiveSync) and my WinMo5 Axim.
I can't seem to get my programs installed onto my TP2. I use a prgram for work called Tarascon. It's a medical reference program. I tried to install it yesterday and I never got the repsonse on the TP2 to request permission to install it. Today, I tried to install SOTI's Pocket Controller and this time I did get the request and I installed it to the device but I can't find it anywhere on it. It didn't install an Icon on the device and I've looked through every place I could think and can't even find an installation file for it. I didn't get an install error or failure notice and my memory size dcreased 2MB so something happened.

Glad to help
Since I don't really know anything about the medical reference software you're using, my first suggestion would be to check with the publisher and make sure that the version you have is compatible with Win7 and WM6.x...often software that worked on WM5 won't work just right on 6.
As for SOTI Pocket Controller, the latest version available on the site should be compatible with your setup. When you install it, are you doing that by running a .exe file on your PC and then letting Mobile Device Center (the new generation of ActiveSync) handle the install from there? It might be advisable to just moving the .cab file for the program straight to your phone (device memory or storage card is fine), and run it from there to install...bypasses the MDC, and ends up doing the same thing in the long run. In fact, it might be worth trying the same thing (running the .cab straight from your phone) with the medial software you've got.

It might just be that I'm using Ver4 and it doesn't want to run right with the newer install setup(MDC).
It worked fine when I installed it on my Axim(WinMo5) and using WinXP(ActiveSync).
Another odd thing, every time I plug in my TP2 and MDC starts to Sync, I get the request from Win7 for the Tarascon program to initialize. So that tells me something, somewhere set a pointer to my TP2 to update the program. I think.

Max 2GB storage access for app !

There you go!
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=15451
Techticker.co.uk have published this summary of the recently held UK TechDays seminar held by Microsoft to introduce developers to their new mobile OS.
While the 9 minute video by and large cover information we have heard earlier, one issue of note is that apparently each application will only have access to 2 GB of storage on the device, irrespective of the actual size of storage.

Don't really see that as a problem; the main storage hogs are going to be music/videos/pictures, which are handled through accesible libraries without this 2GB limit. Maps for GPS apps could hit the limit, although I think I see the envisaged scenario being more on streamed data with caching.

Yeah I don't see what's the problem here. Just more BS drama from WMPoweruser to generate traffic.

Tito662 said:
Yeah I don't see what's the problem here. Just more BS drama from WMPoweruser to generate traffic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is that it's just heuristic restrictions on the usage of the operating system.
Why would you limit the size of the space an application can use? Is the underlying OS FAT32 and Microsoft is worried that stupid app developers will store everything as one monolithic file and therefore break their app when the store reaches 2GB?
It doesn't make sense, and restrictions that don't make sense -- regardless of what they are -- are a problem.

Yea, this is pretty restrictive, but you guys make it sound like 512MBs. How many apps do you have installed on your device as of now?

Spike15 said:
The problem is that it's just heuristic restrictions on the usage of the operating system.
Why would you limit the size of the space an application can use? Is the underlying OS FAT32 and Microsoft is worried that stupid app developers will store everything as one monolithic file and therefore break their app when the store reaches 2GB?
It doesn't make sense, and restrictions that don't make sense -- regardless of what they are -- are a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's Silverlight Isolated Storage for saving stuff 'on disk'. SIS stores have specificed, finite sizes. Who knows, it might be fat32, might be exfat.

Spike15 said:
The problem is that it's just heuristic restrictions on the usage of the operating system.
Why would you limit the size of the space an application can use? Is the underlying OS FAT32 and Microsoft is worried that stupid app developers will store everything as one monolithic file and therefore break their app when the store reaches 2GB?
It doesn't make sense, and restrictions that don't make sense -- regardless of what they are -- are a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is limited by Silvelight...
but i don't think this is a big problem,this limitation can easy change by update

This isn't really accurate. They haven't fully decided on a max space. WP7 uses exFAT and isn't limited to a single file size. I believe this can be configured per app and developers will be able to request more than 2GB if their app needs it for whatever reason. 2GB is just the 'default' and isn't even enforced in the CTP. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff402541(v=VS.92).aspx

My bigger problem with this isolated storage is that for no reason at all other than bad engineering it's incredibly slow. sviluppomobile.blogspot.com/2010/04/wp7-isolatedstorage-speed.html about 127x slower.
When I posted about this on the msdn forum, some MVP just basically told me to "use a webservice" and if i don't than this is not the platform for me.

I had issues with that when i was making some silverlight apps some time ago. But i figured them out. What microsoft is doing here with windows phone 7 is that they are using the phone to marry apps with their cloud counterparts. Apps like netflix ap mobile nytimes will use if at most 10 mb of local storage on the device. anyone that need more than 512 mb of local storage for their app, is doing something really wrong. in regards to speed of the local storage i have realised that each local storage created is essential a true isolated storage area. meaning its essentially a small partiton formatted in some format (might be fat) and all the process of reading from that and storing to it really gets some painful io problems. But it seems with windows phone 7 the unified storage engine seems to fix that. Essential from my views of the way my programs are working. when an app is launched. all other apps are essentialy frozen in their last state, so only essential apps and stacks are running. during this process the local storage is put into ram and the application access the program at close to the native speed of the ram. when a user hits the back button it essential takes the local storage and saves back to the slower storage medium and saves the state of the application..
hope this makes sense.

What do you plan on installing on your WP7? World of Warcraft?
Imho, you don't need more than 2 gigs per app, hell, even my Tomtom with all Europe installed on it fits on my 2 gigs microSD card.
Remember, it's a freaking phone!

Difference with Internal Storage and Whats Shown on Device

I am not sure where the deal is here, nor do I know what would be proper search values to mull through XDA. But why is it when I look to see what my phone storage is at, it first shows the picture where the memory says loading, but in the bar there seems to be about 2/3rds of the memory used up. Then once the data has loaded, the memory storage goes down quite a bit, but down at the bottom, it says available storage to only be like 3 GB?

adamhlj said:
I am not sure where the deal is here, nor do I know what would be proper search values to mull through XDA. But why is it when I look to see what my phone storage is at, it first shows the picture where the memory says loading, but in the bar there seems to be about 2/3rds of the memory used up. Then once the data has loaded, the memory storage goes down quite a bit, but down at the bottom, it says available storage to only be like 3 GB?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine does this as well. The amount of space used by the different categories listed + the free space isn't any way near the capacity of the internal storage (13.33GB). For some reason the 'misc' category is gone once calculating the space used by the categories has finished (you can see the misc category while it's calculating). I prefer to use an app for more accurate readings: Storage Analyser