Develop Bugs

Gotta love Microsoft...BUT

I wouldn't say I love Microsoft, but they do have the market for computer software and I do have quite a bit of their hardware, the MS stearing wheel been a fine bit of kit.
I have used Windows operating systems since Windows 3.1 to the present XP (Vista any day now). I have been using a PocketPC for the past few years with software ranging from Windows Mobile 2003 to the 2005 version, all under licence from the vendor I bourght the phone from.
Whilst the pre packaged software on my PDA is all good and well I have had a much more productive and fun time using my device since I stumbled across XDA-developers.com website, usefull information, people who are in the same boat and development on the software to only increese the usabillity of it.
This is the reason I started this thread.
Everyone that own's a PocketPC/PDA has bourght it. This means that once the device has been bourght you have paid for the Microsoft licence of the installed software.
When you buy a copy of Windows for your home or business computer you have a few differnet ways you can install the software, there are lots of third party bits of software you can install, so you can customize the way your computer is setup.
Microsoft are gonna make xda-developers.com to take down the files that are posted on this site.
I believe that as we have all payed to have the software on our PDA's we have the right to have any version that we want, modified or not. Yes, we shouldn't have versions that haven't been "officially" realeased on our PDA's but even with those there are people who have got the ROM's and made them better.
Microsoft should be quite gratefull that there are people out there to make a bit of software they have developed even better, why should it be any skin of there noses for a bit of software they have allready been paid for!!!
Microsoft can't stop new ROM's been realesed on the internet, if Vista is on all the torrent sites there's no way they are gonna stop a new Windows Mobile ROM appearing.
To conclude...Microsoft should know a good thing when they see it. XDA-Developers.com is that!

Well laid out. I totally agree with you. What M$ doesn't understand is that more roms will start to fly around on un-monitored sites. These sites will lack the support provided at xda-developers and customer complains will sky rocket through the roofs.

Like jack bauer say... "Damn it M$", we need our own Chloe O'brian (a mean betatester)... YOU GUYS!
LONG LIFE XDA-DEVELOPERS!!!

You are right !
M$ have a basic problem in their buisness concept ... not letting people have the freedom that they need and want to upgrade and evolve their OS
And that's why (i believe) people are starting to switch to other OS like OSX or linux.
I am very much afraid that it will also start happening in our mobile decives with symbian and others ...
because although WM5 (and 6) tend to .... crash, hang, or just not work, in my opinion it is the most versitile OS there is .... plenty of programs for it ... and plenty of programmers making new stuff as they go, and that's without including ROM maker which are a whole highly respectable group on their own.
I believe that it is our decision to upgrade, as well as our legal right(for the OS' price is no doubt included in the device's retail price) BUT people must have no right to complain after screwing with their device or worse (bricking it).
And in that respect i agree with M$.
So i propose the middle ground, asking M$ if writing a diclaimer here on XDA that users must go through before downloading and/or upgrading their device will do, and hope that they accept.
if not ...
find a legal loophole, because I for one am not willing to give XDA up just yet !
sorry if i bored you guys, but that's just the way i feel about this whole thing.
UPGRADE ON !
heh.

I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.

They'll have to face't!
columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them. Two things I would like to say in response to this.
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with, unlike my SPV M5000 which was crashing on a daily basis, even with their latest ROM, until I updated it with a ROM from this forum. Had I not been saved by this this amazing forum, I would have demanded a refund, Orange would have lost money and I would have moved to a different company.
2) People who update their phones with ROM images from this forum should know better than to seek support from their mobile operator after having updated their ROM. They should have known that they would not like this.
Now we all have to suffer.
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I have never gone to my mobile operator nor the phone support service center! I have not a single doubt in my mind that I know better than the "technician" sitting behind his desk claiming to fix my PDA whenever it hicks up!
This forum and only THIS FORUM, helped 100K of people to fix their own PDAs and even created a wide knowledge to those beginners who knew nada about roms or tweaking pdas!
But sorry to say that OS developers have gone too far this time and as it was rightly said, the tighter and tougher they become the more roms ther will be out there even more than they can imagine, since it is a challenge they've started, they'll have to face't.

columbo said:
I have never been one to defend Microsoft, but from reading their letter carefully, it would appear it has more to do with the mobile operators putting pressure on them.
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I think that, in this case, M$ is hiding itself behind the mobile operators. Bit too easy, ain't it...

In the end
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends

bastiaanoskam said:
In the end it all comes down to this:
We ALL get F*CKED in the (*) by Bill Gates and his friends
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What an amazingly constructive comment you made there...... I would say that this is just a part of life and there is nothing we can do about it. To be honest we all knew this course of action was inevitable.
This action is corporate companies trying to protect there product - can you really blame them for that....... Money makes the world go round and all that...

columbo said:
1) If the mobile operators and manufacturers would employ developers who were even half as quick and resourceful as the developers here, they might actually have sold me a phone that worked properly to start with...
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Well why don't they employ US
I am unemployed atm...

Re: This Place Goes to Dogs Because of Microsoft

Re: This Place Goes to Dogs Because of Microsoft
Now no more cooking up Roms and OS's and no place to go.
I'm upset to see this.
There has got to be a way to carry on?
What were these guys afraid of? Oh if you want the new OS and it's capabilities you got to go to carrier and get ripped off!
I wonder who complained the most? I bet i-Mate was at the top of the list. HTC?
I want to run the newest OS without purchasing a new unit period and if I can't I will not be purchasing any more from the likes of Cingular, T-Mobile.
You know here in the good old USA you can't even get a decent phone from T-Mobile they are in the Stone Age. Cingular is a little better you can get a stripped down Tytn as the 8525 that of course is locked to their network and they almost always strong arm you into a 2 year contract! What are these guys Dictators?
You know why cant we develop our own like Sony's UX Micro series?
These thing would put these guys out of business. After all I always build my own PC's b uy the operating system. I can build these to suit me.
Well the End is near the Commies are taking over, lets hug a tree and sing some Kumbaiya.
Ok Ranted

amen brother
Me too! Tired of buying $650 phones with crummy ROMS and no support. It's absurd!! I left the board for a week and a half and came back today to upgrade to the Dopod ROM with GPS (I have the p3600) - whoops! - it's gone - Screwed!
Everyone can pat microsoft on the back for being so lenient for so long but I've been doing Windows since the first version and have watched them illegally put Netscape, Ecco Pro, Wordperfect (almost), Firefox (soon) and hundreds of other great software companies out of business through bullying and bribing - this makes me not give a flying you know what about respecting their rights. They even bullied the feds - more power there than the Vanderbilts and the Rockerfellers (sp?) ever had!!
I have spent a fortune on their products, and I have done almost everything totally legally (which is why I have spent a fortune). But they are not satisfied with that. They have to run all the experimenters and the innovators out of business, and when theirown products suck, they have to buy the competition out of business. I will buy and use the first good open source OS that comes along for these excellent PDA phones - I am so tired of throwing dollar after dollar on systems that don't work (don't get me started on Active sync, duplicates everywhere, increasingly limited abilities to sync, Outlook and the inability to have one PIM on more than one computer at home without 3rd party software at home, and so on).
It makes a good man want to cry. At least Apple is up front about it. And, altho there is no opportunity for innovation there, at least their products work. Microsoft is in business just to blow everybody else out of the water. Tiring to say the least. Deserving of a consumer revolt at best!
Yes they are within their legal rights. Legal rights these days are like political rights in the past MIGHT MAKES RIGHT. Thank you again, Bill Gates.

We're still cooking up ROMs. In fact I posted one just today. The location has simply changed. FTTB everything's on RapidShare. We no longer host this location however, so the care we took in ensuring that pre-production ROMs not yet sent to Operators were removed is now gone.
What has m$ really done here other than just make a lot of people really mad (the petition has around 6,000 signatures currently)? Oh, I know. They've hurt their sales.
... go figure...

as if MSFT cares much about sales they would only care if their $$$ go to competitors like Apple iPhone for example... then Bill would go bananas but a few billion less in sales that's peanuts for him ))
on another point, rapidshare is not searchable (for obvious reasons)... will then the sharing and testing be done through PM only???

I have been told (smile) that emule has a search function.

Yeah but really, would you install a rom that came from e-mule?

Exactly. Did anyone 'mirrored' the ftp before it was taken down?
I can't believe, BTW, that xdad being scared by M$FT -without any reason, let me add - did not give us some time to mirror it. This is clearly pathetic, I think.

there is a mirror!!,,, search this forum carefully for the word "gurus"

dim4x4 said:
there is a mirror!!,,, search this forum carefully for the word "gurus"
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So are we not meant to tell anyone the web address?
:gulp:

Will Microsoft kill XDA?

I had been used to then making roms for my Windows Mobile phone to download the language packs for the rom. But found that a socalled MS Internet Investigator had threatend the poster of these packages to remove them.
I wonder do you thinks that Microsoft will kill this site one day?

Well, certainly, the site will live as there is a lot of free (copyrighted ) software here, developed by XDA members. It is not only about WM6.5.
As for it, you still have China . ROMBeta for example. Or probably the takedown was a hoax.
IMHO MS just used us . They read the thread to get to know about bugs of their recent builds. All we were their free testers. And now, as WM6.5 is officially out, it is a copyrighted product, and we don't have permission to do smth unless we buy it.
I do not like when I am used in such a rude manner, so I will continue using my Diamond, and when it breaks, make sure to buy an Android phone from HTC .
Of course all these words are rubbish, if it was a hoax and we will continue experiencing WM6.5 .

Sensitive material: the xda-developers point of view.
Quote taken from here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1104604&postcount=1
"However with increased popularity comes an increased amount of legal complaints when sensitive material is found on our servers. Which is the reason why we have been more careful lately. Recently some sensitive material has shown up on the servers and we received legal complaints from companies who have the copyrights for this material, although we all feel this is very interesting and valuable material we cannot risk the future of xda-developers by ignoring the legal requests we receive, therefore this material has been taken offline."

yeah, they care more about keeping their cashcrop site up than the actual users. there aint no reason they couldnt rapidshare them files and post the new links in the thread, see the entire blueangel/wallaby sections. its all ftp links that are dead.
i'm sure i'll catch heat for my pro-user point of view here, but the fact remains they make more than enough money on this site to buy a decent server that doesnt take 30seconds to load, and maybe not removing the only link to a file leaving people completely SOL.
ms won't do anything to xda. xda sells more WM phones than ms could ever do alone, i know this because its 90% of the reason why i own as many HTCs as i do.
i love xda, but the management irks me. and the disorganization of it.

Not this garbage again!!
Are we sure that this "internet investigator" is real now? The last time it was some punk saying that they represented M$ and because of him, a bunch of roms ended up being taken down (even if they were not hosted in the xda servers.
I am so tired of this crap it isn't even funny...
@OneSman,
M$ isn't really using you since they are not offering you anything for free. You just happen to see it and use it. If you happen to report bugs, it is for the Chefs and not for M$ (however, they get to read your comments/reports as well). Don't expect any developer to give you any freebies simply because you are beta testing something. I still have to see the dev who does that.
@cerjam,
The management of XDA irks you? Why? If you are sent a letter from a company that has enough lawyers to sue you till the middle of next week, you will take corrective action. End of story... I think XDA's management is superb considering the amount of flow of information and users in this site.
Please lets not make another epic thread(s) for this "investigator" until we know it is a real M$ as$h0l3.

i own a few shady sites. i don't bend over for dmca or supposed emails from maybe some idiot from some company.
there is no reason they have to piss on the userbase like they do.
sure, i can see a problem hosting the **** in the xda-dev ftp. but it is irresponsible to the community to not have backups and to not make the files obtainable elsewhere.
point is they put ms and other pricks over their users. the people who make them money, who keep their site alive. there is no legal reason for them to bend over and just go OK /DELETE. specially without warning.

cerjam said:
i own a few shady sites. i don't bend over for dmca or supposed emails from maybe some idiot from some company.
there is no reason they have to piss on the userbase like they do.
sure, i can see a problem hosting the **** in the xda-dev ftp. but it is irresponsible to the community to not have backups and to not make the files obtainable elsewhere.
point is they put ms and other pricks over their users. the people who make them money, who keep their site alive. there is no legal reason for them to bend over and just go OK /DELETE. specially without warning.
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Don't get me wrong, I hate them as much as I can (and then some), but the site admins have to play it safe... because they have such a large user base, they have to ensure that the site will keep on going and that it won't be taken down. I do agree about the back ups though...

playing it safe is fine. im just pissed off to no goddamn end, i buy any phone older than 2years? WELP SORRY MAN OUT OF LUCK BECAUSE MS EMAILED US =D
which is very very irksome, you have a blueangel you should understand lmfao

cerjam said:
yeah, they care more about keeping their cashcrop site up than the actual users. there aint no reason they couldnt rapidshare them files and post the new links in the thread, see the entire blueangel/wallaby sections. its all ftp links that are dead.
i'm sure i'll catch heat for my pro-user point of view here, but the fact remains they make more than enough money on this site to buy a decent server that doesnt take 30seconds to load, and maybe not removing the only link to a file leaving people completely SOL.
ms won't do anything to xda. xda sells more WM phones than ms could ever do alone, i know this because its 90% of the reason why i own as many HTCs as i do.
i love xda, but the management irks me. and the disorganization of it.
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Yeah, I suppose they could use RapidShare or something, but if they upload all their files all at once to RapidShare, that could lead a suspicious trail, and what are they gonna say? "MS E-mailed us, so we put all of our illegal files on RapidShare." Lighten up a bit. It's FAR better to have a website with all the tools to learn how to mod your own device and to try and find the files yourself (which I'm sure are out there), than to have the files for at most a few months or a year or so and then have this site, probably the best WM site in existence, completely go under. Besides, if people have to work to find the files, it'll make the end product feel that much nicer.

I don't know American Law (XDA is an American Site?)
But lets say it was in Denmark. But anyway. Here Microsoft would have to go to court and get a courtorder to make a website remove links that MS or any other feelt threatened their business.
Is the law different in the US?
/Fred
p.s. How does one become a payed Internet Investigator? I would love to have such a job insteed my current one

Euroman28 said:
I don't know American Law (XDA is an American Site?)
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Thanks no!
I think XDA is Neederlands

Microsoft kills Windows Mobile ?
It is possible that Windows Mobile 6.5 is the last and final Windows Mobile release from Microsoft.

In what you base for saying that?
WM7.................

sleurhut said:
It is possible that Windows Mobile 6.5 is the last and final Windows Mobile release from Microsoft.
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Click to collapse
Well, Many rumors are milling around for a WM7 and then WM7.1, I don't know the authenticity of this rumors, but couple of years back I heard a rumor that WM 6.5 is coming out.... so let's hope we get more upgrades, unless MS decided not to cash on WM mobiles. Will they?!
Shiv

sleurhut said:
It is possible that Windows Mobile 6.5 is the last and final Windows Mobile release from Microsoft.
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Click to collapse
Im pretty sure Steve Ballmer talked about windows mobile 7 in an interview so its kinda official just no time for release or anything yet

kaptix said:
Im pretty sure Steve Ballmer talked about windows mobile 7 in an interview so its kinda official just no time for release or anything yet
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There he is.

..i closed the tab without posting. damnit.
a) wm7s been confirmed. it's going to be ms's version of the iphones OS, the last decent WM was 5 before ms went all change-happy.
and b) ms couldnt prove anything. xda couldve setup a good data-hosting service that couldnt be traced. i imagine they make enough money off this site that they could do alot of things to make this site better.
and on that note, does anyone have any idea as to why whoever owns xda is too damn cheap to buy a decent server for xda. it's constantly slow and dead, i know damnwell they make massive money off donations and adcash. a decent server is maybe 1k a month, you're telling me theseguys are so broke they cant even put alittle of the community cash back into it?

sleurhut said:
It is possible that Windows Mobile 6.5 is the last and final Windows Mobile release from Microsoft.
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Microsoft confirms multi-touch, designates WM7 to high-end, while keeping WM 6.5 for mass market
http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/08/...igh-end-while-keeping-wm-6-5-for-mass-market/

cerjam said:
i imagine they make enough money off this site that they could do alot of things to make this site better.
and on that note, does anyone have any idea as to why whoever owns xda is too damn cheap to buy a decent server for xda. it's constantly slow and dead, i know damnwell they make massive money off donations and adcash. a decent server is maybe 1k a month, you're telling me theseguys are so broke they cant even put alittle of the community cash back into it?
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How much money do you think the owners make off of a site that runs on donations?
Most of the money is going to the developers on the site and not the owners I'm sure.

they have ads. with thousands of people per day. they make massive cash, i don't care what anyone says. at least enough to pay for a decent server.

Is there a new official ROM comming up?

Hi all,
I have a question, does anyone know if there will be a new official rom for the TP2? The last ROM update, as we all know, had the SOD problem and it would be nice of HTC to patch that up with a new ROM.
Or HTC maybe declared WM6.5 dead and already moved on to WP7.
Maybe someone knows
Grtz FeareX

Not likely, since the phone has been discontinued.

Miami_Son said:
Not likely, since the phone has been discontinued.
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What do you mean by discontinued?

Jackos said:
What do you mean by discontinued?
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As in no longer in production. AT$T is the only carrier still offering it and replacements through Asurion are refurbished units, not new. Development is pretty much over as it has reached its end of life.

Miami_Son said:
As in no longer in production. AT$T is the only carrier still offering it and replacements through Asurion are refurbished units, not new. Development is pretty much over as it has reached its end of life.
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Right, but it still has HTC tech-support.

Jackos said:
Right, but it still has HTC tech-support.
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Yeah, but don't expect any more ROM upgrades from HTC. They've moved on.

Wouldn't be so sure. They just released a rom update for Leo, a fix for corrupted microphone in speakerphone mode for Rhodium and People application update for Rhodium too.

Those were to fix issues that needed fixing. There is nothing on our phones that doesn't work properly with the stock ROM. This last AT$T ROM update was an enhancement (Sense 2.5) and will probably be the last official Rhodium ROM to come from HTC. We might see a hotfix or two, but not another complete ROM update.

What about SoD and performance problems?
Also some users are reporting problems with droped calls. We just need HTC's attention.

Those aren't necessarily ROM issues. I've had a total of one unexplained SOD in the first month I owned the phone. The rest have been related to my overclocking it. Dropped calls are more a carrier issue, not a device issue. My Tilt 2 runs great on WinMo 6.5 and TF3D 2.1. That's why I skipped the latest update to Sense 2.5, which seems to have caused more problems than it fixed. No company keeps fixing problem in perpetuity. This phone is already 18 months old, which is ancient in terms of cell phones, and most are near or beyond the end of their factory warranty period. Unless there is still a problem that affects all or a large percentage of users and isn't related to user mods, don't expect HTC to throw any more of their resources at trying to fix it. They would much rather concentrate on newer phones that are still in the retail channel. Now that M$ is done with WinMo 6.5, there isn't much incentive for HTC to waste any more time with it. That's just the ugly truth.

SoD and performance are rom problems for sure.
Dropped calls is a radio rom issue for me, because if you use another phone with this same sim card the problem disappears (in this same area). However this might be a hardware antenna problem.

Dude, why do you keep arguing with me? Unless everyone or a large majority of users are having the exact same issue, it isn't a ROM problem. The SODs could very well be a hardware and/or a software issue, but it is still not one that everyone is suffering from. Almost every PC running Windows has had a freeze at one time or another, you think M$ is going to continue trying to fix every version of Windows it's ever made? A phone that drops calls easier than another isn't necessarily defective, either. When I had my RAZR V3 I hardly ever dropped calls. When I moved to a Smartphone I started dropping calls like crazy. Put simply, the Smartphone was less powerful because of the space needed for so many other components that the radio section suffered. Places I easily got 4-5 bars on my RAZR I now get 2-3 bars on my Tilt 2. Can't be helped other than by HTC coming out with another model with a better radio. They aren't going to improve the TP2/Tilt 2 to make it better. They're done with it.

Miami_Son said:
Dude, why do you keep arguing with me?
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Because it's a forum? I don't agree with your opinion, so why should I stay quiet? Do you feel offended or what? It's a crime to disagree or point other arguments? Sometimes I really feel that this forum lost its soul.
Miami_Son said:
Unless everyone or a large majority of users are having the exact same issue, it isn't a ROM problem.
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Not true at all?
Miami_Son said:
The SODs could very well be a hardware and/or a software issue, but it is still not one that everyone is suffering from.
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Click to collapse
Hardware? So why it doesn't occur on S0 or S1 roms? Only on S2?
Miami_Son said:
They aren't going to improve the TP2/Tilt 2 to make it better. They're done with it.
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Any arguments for that? Their last update was on 12-th November, not even a month ago (for other countries even later).

Whatever, man. I never told you to shut up, I just don't see why you have such a hard time accepting the truth. I pointed out the reality that once a product has reached its end-of-life and is no longer being manufactured, much, if not all, development comes to a halt. This is true of almost any consumer electronic item you can think of. The Tilt2 had a total of one updated ROM released by HTC for it recently and a couple of hotfixes back in February and a couple after the release of this latest ROM. I would bet money that is the last we'll see from HTC on this phone. There are just too many other newer phones they need to concentrate on and support instead of a nearly 2 year old model. For the most part, the carriers would have to be bugging them for an update and most of them are more interested in selling you a new phone to replace it and extending your plan another 2 years. I've been around the retail electronics business (family store) for over 30 years and that's just the way it works, only today, with such short product cycles, it is even worse. You have a much better shot at some developer on XDA fixing these issues, but even many of them haved moved on to other phones. Life goes on.
And not to make you feel bad, but I have had very few issues with my Tilt2 and most were caused by something *I* did, not the phone or the software. I hate to say it, but I think a lot of the SODs and performance issues are related to poor quality control and user error and tweaking, not the phone or software itself. And then there's just some things in WinMo that have been ongoing issues for years. trust me, I know. I've been a WinMo user since 2003 and I'm amazed at some of the things I see still causing problems.

Miami_Son said:
Whatever, man. I never told you to shut up, I just don't see why you have such a hard time accepting the truth. I pointed out the reality that once a product has reached its end-of-life and is no longer being manufactured, much, if not all, development comes to a halt. This is true of almost any consumer electronic item you can think of. The Tilt2 had a total of one updated ROM released by HTC for it recently and a couple of hotfixes back in February and a couple after the release of this latest ROM. I would bet money that is the last we'll see from HTC on this phone. There are just too many other newer phones they need to concentrate on and support instead of a nearly 2 year old model. For the most part, the carriers would have to be bugging them for an update and most of them are more interested in selling you a new phone to replace it and extending your plan another 2 years. I've been around the retail electronics business (family store) for over 30 years and that's just the way it works, only today, with such short product cycles, it is even worse. You have a much better shot at some developer on XDA fixing these issues, but even many of them haved moved on to other phones. Life goes on.
And not to make you feel bad, but I have had very few issues with my Tilt2 and most were caused by something *I* did, not the phone or the software. I hate to say it, but I think a lot of the SODs and performance issues are related to poor quality control and user error and tweaking, not the phone or software itself. And then there's just some things in WinMo that have been ongoing issues for years. trust me, I know. I've been a WinMo user since 2003 and I'm amazed at some of the things I see still causing problems.
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1) I had just one issue, it's already fixed by HTC. No more issues at all
2) Poor quality control? Software just should be prepared for all situation. For all those years I have been a developer, I never called an user action stupid or poor. I always tried to predict all situations. That's how software should work.
3) WinMo user since 2003 - glad to read your references... Shall I show mine?
I agree with this opinion, WM never was even close to perfection. From the other side, it always was a step ahead in customization and features.

Jackos said:
1) I had just one issue, it's already fixed by HTC. No more issues at all Then what are you waiting for an updated ROM for?
2) Poor quality control? Software just should be prepared for all situation. For all those years I have been a developer, I never called an user action stupid or poor. I always tried to predict all situations. That's how software should work. You're living in a fantasy world. I'm glad that you have that attitude towards the code YOU write, but M$ has never thought that way. Not with Windows 3.0 (what I started on) and not on Windows7, which still suffers from niggling issues carried forward from several versions back. Despite there still being a large XP user base, do you think they are still putting much effort into fixing its problems? They did, it's called Windows Vista, which Windows 7 was created to fix after that. What I meant about stupid user action is the many things we do ourselves that break our phones. I mean, we're on XDA because we aren't satisfied, right? So we mod and fix and customize and sometimes mess things up. How many times have you installed a cab or regedit and reboot with your fingers crossed?
3) WinMo user since 2003 - glad to read your references... Shall I show mine?
I agree with this opinion, WM never was even close to perfection. From the other side, it always was a step ahead in customization and features. Sure is, and that's what we love about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much of the problem with our phones is that they were compromised from the start. The hardware, while cutting edge at introduction, wasn't really designed for the things that our mods and updated ROMs are trying to do on it. A TP2 running WinMo 6.1 is actually a pretty fast, reliable machine. Then AT$T decided that to compete they wanted their version to run WinMo 6.5 with TF3D. Still, not so bad, performance remained acceptable. Then they put Sense 2.5 on it and the shortcoming and issues multiplied ad infinitum. The phone itself didn't change, but in trying to keep up with the iPhoneses we asked more and more of it and, well, it wasn't quite up to the task. At least not for real power users, anyway. That being the case, do you think HTC will keep trying to squeeze more performance out of a discontinued device just to make a small cadre of XDA and PPCGeeks users happy with their totally underpowered, by comparison to what's available today, TP2s and Tilt 2s? Not likely. I'm just a pragmatist that way. I love my Tilt 2 and it does all I want right now. I'm eligible for an upgrade already, but I'm in no hurry. If something really worthy comes along or the Tilt 2 no longer meets my needs, I'm gone. I just hope that it offers me near or better the same level of personalization that my Tilt 2 does. From what I've seen of XDAndroid, I'm happy to wait awhile longer. Good talking to you and although I don't use one of your ROMs, I appreciate that you're here and have been helping the community all these years.

Hehe, I think that anything has been said here already
Just to clarify - I do not run into troubles, because I'm creating my own roms - something that in my opinion works like it should right out of the factory. I demand HTC to fix performance/sod/radio issues in their latest stock S2 rom.
It's a flagship, business and high-end device. How the **** did they released such a trashy ROM for it?
About the MS Vista example, MS still does publish fixes and updated software for it. Hah, even XP is still supported. "In an unprecedented move, Microsoft has committed to providing support services for its soon to be retired Windows XP through 2014 -- a full 13 years after the operating system was originally released."@InformationWeek
Why doesn't HTC act same? TP2 is still a very popular device.

Jackos said:
It's a flagship, business and high-end device. How the **** did they released such a trashy ROM for it?
Why doesn't HTC act same? TP2 is still a very popular device.
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Click to collapse
Simple answer for both questions is, because HTC doesn't make the base software their devices run on. They are saddled with the problems they inherit from Microsoft. They would be wasting time and money to try and fix the things in WinMo that don't work right, which is why so many manufacturers and developers are abandoning the platform. Years of trying to work with M$ and still too many disgruntled customers to show for it. WinPho7 is a perfect example. How can you come to market with a new OS that doesn't support something as simple as cut-and-paste, a feature the previous OS has had for years? It seems like a small thing, but it just shows how M$ is constantly missing the mark on functionality and user experience. And why something like Android was able to garner so much market share in such a short period of time.

Jackos said:
Hehe, I think that anything has been said here already
Just to clarify - I do not run into troubles, because I'm creating my own roms - something that in my opinion works like it should right out of the factory. I demand HTC to fix performance/sod/radio issues in their latest stock S2 rom.
It's a flagship, business and high-end device. How the **** did they released such a trashy ROM for it?
About the MS Vista example, MS still does publish fixes and updated software for it. Hah, even XP is still supported. "In an unprecedented move, Microsoft has committed to providing support services for its soon to be retired Windows XP through 2014 -- a full 13 years after the operating system was originally released."@InformationWeek
Why doesn't HTC act same? TP2 is still a very popular device.
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Click to collapse
I completely agree with you... I'm tired of using tp2 with the problems that it has...
I mean, before ending with HTC tP2, they must make a final ROM version of content which all fixed and upgrades for HTC's faith real customers.
It's not everyone who wants to use WP7... I do not know about you but I will never buy a mobile with WP7 or iPhone...

I'm also having SOD about every day.
Started after the upgrade from WM6.5 to WM6.5.5
So I downgraded to WM6.5 again, but the problems stayed.
I don't have changed anything on the ROM, and I'm using the official ROM's of HTC.
I even ran a week with WM6.5 out of the box, and the problems still occurred.
So blaiming the users is quite short sighted...
And after complaining for 6-9months at HTC, I gave it up.
PS:
I don't think the TP2 is out of live over here (the Netherlands), or it's just stock they are emptying.
It's fully available in many stores, and online.

Wp7 update

There may already be several threads in other sections discussing this anticipated update, but I thought why not. Happy New Years Ladies and Gentlemen.
Microsoft has stuck to their slogan "Early 2011".
The little blue birdy however flew a little closer to sources and overheard "January".
As of now, the update has not yet been released obviously so this gives us all the opportunity to discuss some of our individual expectations from this upcoming update. You may have heard, there may be several updates, not only one.
Let's try not to get too loony but in all seriousness, when I first purchased my HTC MOZART with WP7 I did so without much research and maybe too much faith in Microsoft.
I thought MAC - PC, IPhone - WP7
I can tell you all now, I was severely traumatized by my experience when I first discovered I couldn't customise my ring-tone. With tears still pouring down my face, and Chevron still non existent, I went to Copy and Paste something. It was then that I learnt that the World had already ended.
Now like I said, we can't expect too much but I just want to state what I personally believe and after some scrutiny of my opinion wisely believe I'm in the position to state several of the most 'CRUCIAL' changes that need to take place ASAP on WP7. The severity of leaving these features out has already taken on another dimension. Some features were intentionally left out for future profiteering and others simply because the potential of such features could be exploited in unexpected ways.
Taking this path however has led some of Microsoft's most loyal customers questioning the developmental plans and reasoning's behind a number of decisions.
You have to think, these phones aren't toys. These phones (due to the mandatory specifications Microsoft has set) pack quite a powerful punch in terms of processing capabilities. The true capabilities of these technologies seriously can be quite dazzling. For one reason or another, unfortunately such open technology will probably never fall into the hands of the masses.
However, they seem to have gone a bit too far with the intentional tampering of functionality and the unprecedented level of scrutiny has left Microsoft scrambling to find the excuses, and forced them to re-think their relationship with their customers.
Julian Assange is here questioning which governments are responsible for all these dead civilians and we need to seriously point exactly at the people in charge (Governments - Developers all the same) and demand why, with the level of power they hold, the technology, funds and potential they have access too, are there basic features missing on these GOD DAM PHONES!?
One might state, "If you don't like it, then go somewhere else!"
Well "NO!" is what I would say. Why am I being forced to use outdated technology just to enable me to change my ring-tone! It seems the more we human beings accomplish technologically, the less we are able to utilize it with some common sense. One step forward, two steps back!
It is these corporations that hold the responsibility and have the obligation to set a standard with technological advancements. They are the leading manufacturers, researchers and developers enabling the wonderful standard of life we all possess today. BUT, you have to remember, the people at the front end of these achievements need to be held accountable when a phone shows up on the market that doesn't allow one to change their ring-tone! We as a group of human beings are able to discuss and elaborate. If we are standing here in 2011 with a phone that doesn't allow one to change their ring-tone, we need to stop and start wondering what the hell is going on.
"Yes, I just payed top dollar for one of the most advanced phones out there! So advanced you don't need to change your ring-tone, you just select one out of a list! HOW INGENIUS! "
"Yes, I just payed two million pounds for a luxurious house! It's so freakin high class and luxurious it doesn't even have any DOORS OR WINDOWS!"
See the similarity?
Please Microsoft, give me my Ring-tone back. Give me the Flash Player I deserve. Give me my Landscape Address Bar in MIE. Give me my Multitasking. Give me my Copy/Cut & Paste. Give me my Media player that allows me to Fast Forward/Rewind with my own fingers. YOUTUBE BY HTC DID! Give my USB storage functionality! After all, there is a memory card in there! Give me a voice on my Maps to let me know when I have to turn. Do something about this 'SEARCH' button please. It keeps interrupting me on practically everything I try to do on the phone. At least create a locking mechanism or even give me the option to use it for something more USEFUL! BING IT OFF. Get it?
Anybody else with any realistic functions they believe is a basic requirement? If so please name them.
When the Update is finally released, we can further elaborate on the improvements. I'm sure there will be improvements. WP7 can do better!
Best Regards, Dontworry

Man if only Bluetooth file transfers could be added in the update..

I have a samsung i780 for 2 years already
I lost my mind and bought one HTC HD7 without researching
Please microsoft, do not make me regret more than I already am
it's sad that I feel better with my old i780 with a fake copy of WM6.5
listen to this man, makes us happy.

Guys you must not compare it with the win 6.x phones. Please jsut think about the potential and look at what you do with this phone instead of what it can't.

I jumped from my beloved pimped qtek 9000 to HD7 and i must say.....even if the qtek is so yesterday .... but the WM 6,5 with working bluetooth-Garmin XT and other cool features was untill today way better than WM7.
I Understand that the 7 software is still in developement, but it is not yet worth the money, the time that i invested just to find out why the bluetooth wouldnt work and so on and so on.
I honestly believed that it would be a realy woooooow phone but it is not. So far it is an overpriced not so usefull dissapoitement.

llejk said:
Guys you must not compare it with the win 6.x phones. Please jsut think about the potential and look at what you do with this phone instead of what it can't.
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Click to collapse
Well 4 starters........it would be very usefull if it "could" establish a bluetooth connection with my qtek or for that mater with my hp laptop. That would be wooooooow. On the other hand it cant do much more than a HD2 with a pimped WM 6,5.

Search key really annoy my Mozart
Double click or confirm or somethings for HOME (Start) key in running applications
I want Proximity sensor to disable all key when cover with somethings else
(in running applications)
sorry for my poor ENGLISH

guys u are wasting time and space on XDA by creating those use less threads.... there are so many out there...
i feel so sorry for those ppl who buy things with out knowing what they are getting and then B#%@& about it like a girl... no one put a gun to your head to buy a WP7, u did it with the free will...
and come on i gave up on the Samsung i780 in 6 months as it was a mistake i made buying, which i corrected by getting a HTC Touch Pro. the screen was crap as the touch penal never work... the screen size did not allow me to run so many apps, it was so slow... so if u have used i780 for 2 years u should be glad that u bought a WP7 device as its smooth and fast..
CES is around the corner and i think the update will be launched there....

Peter V8 said:
Well 4 starters........it would be very usefull if it "could" establish a bluetooth connection with my qtek or for that mater with my hp laptop. That would be wooooooow. On the other hand it cant do much more than a HD2 with a pimped WM 6,5.
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Click to collapse
come on u want to compare WP7 devices with your qtek..... u must be kidding me... is that company still making PDA???
i am using HD7 since the frist week of its launch... and as i have unlimited data plan i can send all the files by email, so no need to file transfer, my photos are sent to my sky drive so any one with access can view or download it.

a house so luxurious it has no windows..... wow great place to throw stones huh... just sayin... plus i agree nobody twisted anyones arm to buy one.... the fanboys need to stop cryin like girls... and i can say that... im a girl...

truffle1234 said:
come on u want to compare WP7 devices with your qtek..... u must be kidding me... is that company still making PDA???
i am using HD7 since the frist week of its launch... and as i have unlimited data plan i can send all the files by email, so no need to file transfer, my photos are sent to my sky drive so any one with access can view or download it.
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Click to collapse
I dont want to compare anything and it wouldnt be fair, but on the qtek the bluetooth worked and with WIMO 6,5 by Tomal it was fast.
Oh and i dont need a phone for sending some pics to a sky drive to show them to other people. A working bluetooth would be fine.
Oh and changing ringtones too.
Get the point?
Adobe reader also.....more for a job thing than sending photos. The qtek made a hell of a job there regarding my buisiness.
So the post with the lux house....is not so far fetched after all :-D:-D:-D

cut it off guys
if you dont like it, you can just find more suitable phone for you
but be sure that you do some research on that phone before you buy
and stop whinning about this is not good compare to that...blah blah

hassler said:
cut it off guys
if you dont like it, you can just find more suitable phone for you
...
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Click to collapse
Yeah, you are right. And it seems that soon many people will do so as downgrading mobile computer (which was any WM6.x device) to just fancy phone is not what the people doing real job with the phone are expecting. I'm just waiting for the WP7 update and if it does not contain the mandatory tethering ... bye-bye WP7. Too expensive toy ... that does nothing

prr said:
Too expensive toy ... that does nothing
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Well it does everything a Phone should.... your expectations are obviously higher then this.
Mine does everything I need, after coming from iPhone 4 and Desire HD there isn't anything in particular that I miss. Yes, it doesn't have all the same features but that's the same with any platform you choose.