Develop Bugs

OOS 3.2.2 and Safetynet

Hi developers!
Since the OOS 3.2.2 update, systemless root is now failing to pass googled safetynet checks, meaning Android pay no longer works :/ if I roll back to 3.2.1 then it works fine. I'm using the safetynet helped app from the play store to test this. I wondered if any developers or knowledgeable people would know if this is a change in the rom causing this, or just a SuperSU incompatibility?

OOS 3.2.2 validates with no root. I just flash SuperSU when needed and then unroot when finished. (TWRP as recovery) Some of my banking apps will not work with root installed.
Google made server side change that somehow now detects systemless root around 25th July.

spetrie said:
OOS 3.2.2 validates with no root. I just flash SuperSU when needed and then unroot when finished. (TWRP as recovery) Some of my banking apps will not work with root installed.
Google made server side change that somehow now detects systemless root around 25th July.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That might have been why then. Worked momentarily before the 3.2.2 update. Cheers for the info

manor7777 said:
Hi developers!
Since the OOS 3.2.2 update, systemless root is now failing to pass googled safetynet checks, meaning Android pay no longer works :/ if I roll back to 3.2.1 then it works fine. I'm using the safetynet helped app from the play store to test this. I wondered if any developers or knowledgeable people would know if this is a change in the rom causing this, or just a SuperSU incompatibility?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's working for you on 3.2.1.? It stopped working for me on that version just prior to 3.2.2. coming out.

Google made changes sever side to prevent it from working. IT is getting to the point of having to pick. Root or android pay. We all knew this was coming.

Mit Hipster said:
It's working for you on 3.2.1.? It stopped working for me on that version just prior to 3.2.2. coming out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It did momentarily but not for long. might have been a glitch or a slow-rollout on googles part. It's not working now!

zelendel said:
Google made changes sever side to prevent it from working. IT is getting to the point of having to pick. Root or android pay. We all knew this was coming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah we were waiting. Someone on XDA will find a way round at some point i bet, but we all knew it was coming!

manor7777 said:
Yeah we were waiting. Someone on XDA will find a way round at some point i bet, but we all knew it was coming!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it was done server side there will be no work around. Plus with the new security measures in the linux kernel (XDA portal post) Things like this will be even harder if not impossible.

zelendel said:
If it was done server side there will be no work around. Plus with the new security measures in the linux kernel (XDA portal post) Things like this will be even harder if not impossible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a fair point. Someone made a workaround before that worked for about 6 months through xposed, but to be honest I have twrp so I can flash what I need anyway, no biggie.

manor7777 said:
That's a fair point. Someone made a workaround before that worked for about 6 months through xposed, but to be honest I have twrp so I can flash what I need anyway, no biggie.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah that will be the next thing they start looking for. Agreed doesnt really matter to me either. Mobile payments are banned everywhere I go and since I have to legally carry my ID around I also have my cards so even if it wasnt banned I still wouldnt use it.

zelendel said:
Yeah that will be the next thing they start looking for. Agreed doesnt really matter to me either. Mobile payments are banned everywhere I go and since I have to legally carry my ID around I also have my cards so even if it wasnt banned I still wouldnt use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a shame! Where are you based? Its EVERYWHERE in the UK!

manor7777 said:
That's a shame! Where are you based? Its EVERYWHERE in the UK!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in the US. It is available in most places just not in my town. After it was proven that it could be intercepted and the fact that stores are making their own alt to the pay apps, they decided to just block them.Even my Credit union has removed the chip from their cards due security concerns.
Like I said even if it was I still wouldnt use it. I am smarter then keeping things like my credit card info stored on a device that is always sending data everywhere. Mainly when you think about the fact that keyboards can record every keystroke.
Also I have to keep my ID on me at all times so it is just faster to take my card out and hand it to the cashier.

zelendel said:
I am in the US. It is available in most places just not in my town. After it was proven that it could be intercepted and the fact that stores are making their own alt to the pay apps, they decided to just block them.Even my Credit union has removed the chip from their cards due security concerns.
Like I said even if it was I still wouldnt use it. I am smarter then keeping things like my credit card info stored on a device that is always sending data everywhere. Mainly when you think about the fact that keyboards can record every keystroke.
Also I have to keep my ID on me at all times so it is just faster to take my card out and hand it to the cashier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's only stealable (like with card skimming) whilst the screen is on, at least on a phone. I have a card that I transfer money too whenever I use it (its actually my PayPal card) so I don't have too much of a risk there. They have done a few things like that over here in the UK too but I'm still cautious about it. I have a few measures in place to prevent some of that

manor7777 said:
It's only stealable (like with card skimming) whilst the screen is on, at least on a phone. I have a card that I transfer money too whenever I use it (its actually my PayPal card) so I don't have too much of a risk there. They have done a few things like that over here in the UK too but I'm still cautious about it. I have a few measures in place to prevent some of that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats all it really takes. When checked they found that the majority of the card readers had some sort of extra device installed on it. Like I said it is not a big deal for me as I wouldn't use it if it was available.

I was using systemless root for a while, it passed system checks just fine. But the funs over now, they've patched it. :/

Magisk or SuperSU for HTC ONE M9 7.0 NOUGAT? (VODAP100)

Hi,
I'm wondering what your experiences are with
Magisk or SuperSU for HTC ONE M9 7.0 NOUGAT?
(I'm on CID: VODAP100) :silly:
Which was better for you personally, and have you experienced any any issues with updates to their binaries or problems during installation, or perhaps problems with Google Pay and NFC beam for example?
Thanks for your input. :highfive:

I'm using Magisk 14.0 and NFC is working fine. I stopped using SuperSU when ViperOne M9 6.0 got released (1st February 2017).
I can't say anything about android pay since it's not supported in my country. Pokémon Go (which is relying on safety-net, too) is working fine, though.

Flippy498 said:
I'm using Magisk 14.0 and NFC is working fine. I stopped using SuperSU when ViperOne M9 6.0 got released (1st February 2017).
I can't say anything about android pay since it's not supported in my country. Pokémon Go (which is relying on safety-net, too) is working fine, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see, so Magisk is pre-installed with ViperOne M9 6.0.
I've read that Google Pay won't work with Custom ROMs, which is a shame because it sounds like a good ROM from what I have heard.
Perhaps Google allows rooting in Germany as Germany doesn't use Google Pay. In the UK Google Pay is very popular, and so is using NFC on the transport system. Hmmm, so it could be country specific as to whether NFC gets turned off after rooting. Maybe there is a workaround. :good:
Having said that, I've read that Google Play lists devices with unlocked bootloaders as "Uncertified", yet, I have an unlocked bootloader (via HTCdev/not sure if that makes a difference) and Google Play says "Certified", and as you say, Pokémon is working for you (which uses SafetyNet) so perhaps there won't be an issue but it's rather hit and miss as to what will happen it seems.
Maybe it will say "Not Certified" after Google Pay is opened and granted permission to scan device though, who can say for sure, I don't know. One thing I do know is that my software version has been reported by many to have encryption problems pertaining to the reading of the IMEI after rooting. I've read that in a few places on the internet, that's why I'm trying to get as much info as possible beforehand.
Do you think Magisk 14 is okay for me to flash via TWRP with my current Android version?
I'd really like to get rid of the Vodafone bloatware on my HTC, and more importantly try some battery tweaks but I'd really like to use all phone feature if possible after rooting. (Such as NFC and Google Pay. I'm surprised Google hasn't made a public list of what will work and what will not). Google!

It's actually the first time that I ever hear of NFC not working on a rooted M9 and I highly doubt that that's true.
There are no country-specific differences in regard to root and the hardware of your phone. It might be that the app doesn't allow you to activate NFC (that's an assumption I don't know that for sure since I've never used the app) but the NFC chip itself doesn't get affected by rooting this phone.
Edit: And I haven't heard of phones that lose their IMEI due to root, either. You can create problems by flashing incompatible roms but not by rooting the device.
Edit2: You need to be aware that not all SuperSU versions are compatible with this phone, though. However, the incompatible ones only create a bootloop.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using XDA Labs

Flippy498 said:
It's actually the first time that I ever hear of NFC not working on a rooted M9 and I highly doubt that that's true
There are no country-specific differences in regard to root and the hardware of your phone. It might be that the app doesn't allow you to activate NFC (that's an assumption I don't know that for sure since I've never used the app) but the NFC chip itself doesn't get affected by rooting this phone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I agree, I don't think the NFC chip itself is affected either.
From what I've read, the NFC option ends up "Greyed Out" in some cases. What I meant when I said "Country Specific" was, that perhaps in cases where it does get "Greyed Out", that maybe it happens if a user roots their phone in a country where Google Pay is available to use. (Just a hypothesis).
Flippy498 said:
Edit: And I haven't heard of phones that lose their IMEI due to root, either. You can create problems by flashing incompatible roms but not by rooting the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I trust your knowledge. In my case though, it happened to me and I had not introduced any new ROM ever. I simply unlocked the bootloader on HTCdev. The phone reset to its own recovery factory image after bootloader unlock, but with missing radio and IMEI. It had never been unlocked before, no new image. Others on the internet said it's something to do with the capabilities encryption reading of some versions of SuperSU on this exact phone Software – Nougat 7.0 CID: VODAP100. A bit of a mystery. I'm not an expert but I know I didn't download or backup any image or ROM of any kind. It was already on it, I just unlocked it. Fixed now though thanks to the info here. Great forum. :good:
Flippy498 said:
Edit2: You need to be aware that not all SuperSU versions are compatible with this phone, though. However, the incompatible ones only create a bootloop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I've heard that too. I think this one in the screenshot is OK for my version, would you ever use Kingroot yourself? I'm having a slight issue with SuperSU though as you can see. :silly: LOL :laugh: hmmm I'm really tempted to use Magisk 14 now.
↓
I think it should be 5.67 MB, not "KB" and because of that it's saying 16000+ % downloaded and it wouldn't stop downloading. (screenshot).

Only use Kingroot or any other one-click-root method if you need some nasty malware on your PC and/or smartphone (depending on the version you use).
The latest SuperSU version I've flashed myself was 2.79 SR3.

Flippy498 said:
Only use Kingroot or any other one-click-root method if you need some nasty malware on your PC and/or smartphone (depending on the version you use).
The latest SuperSU version I've flashed myself was 2.79 SR3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard that too. Thanks for confirming.
May I ask, what in your experience is the best app to use to extend battery life on the HTC One M9?
I'm torn between not rooting and trying Naptime via "Dump" or trying Magisk 14 with a Magisk Module but then the other side of me says, ah to hell with it just root and Greenify then you can install Adaway too. :silly:
These are the Devs instructions to use DUMP in case anyone is wondering:
"To use Naptime's features without Root you need to grant it DUMP permission via ADB on your computer by executing this command:
adb -d shell pm grant com.franco.doze android.permission.DUMP
You also need to grant WRITE_SECURE_SETTINGS permission:
adb -d shell pm grant com.franco.doze android.permission.WRITE_SECURE_SETTINGS".
(Edit: The app should be force closed either manually or by running this command from adb after the others commands mentioned above. Originally just the two commands above were at the Google Play description, but the app notified (on opening it) that it needs the force close command :
adb -d shell am force-stop com.franco.doze )
What do you think? I'd also be interested to know what your favourite apps are in general. You seem like you probably know some great ones.

Titanium Backup.
I actually don't think that battery saver apps are worth installing. When an app gets started the battery usage is higher than during the normal usage of the app. Therefore, keeping an app active and re-opening it needs less battery capacity than always killing the app (e.g. with greenify) and restarting it at a later point. In general android is capable enough to handle its ram and the battery on its own.
The best advice I can give you is uninstalling all apps that you don't need and stay away from YouTube, Facebook and all those other bad developed social media apps that drain your battery. That's why I mentioned TiBa at the beginning of the post.
On the other hand this device's release date lies more than 2 years in the past. You mustn't expect any great usage times per battery cycle, anymore, due to the age of the hardware. Batteries don't last forever.
I don't use any fancy apps. Only adaway, TiBa, solid explorer and the venom tweaks of ViperOne M9 require root.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using XDA Labs

Flippy498 said:
Only use Kingroot or any other one-click-root method if you need some nasty malware on your PC and/or smartphone (depending on the version you use).
The latest SuperSU version I've flashed myself was 2.79 SR3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flippy498 said:
Titanium Backup.
I actually don't think that battery saver apps are worth installing. When an app gets started the battery usage is higher than during the normal usage of the app. Therefore, keeping an app active and re-opening it needs less battery capacity than always killing the app (e.g. with greenify) and restarting it at a later point. In general android is capable enough to handle its ram and the battery on its own.
The best advice I can give you is uninstalling all apps that you don't need and stay away from YouTube, Facebook and all those other bad developed social media apps that drain your battery. That's why I mentioned TiBa at the beginning of the post.
On the other hand this device's release date lies more than 2 years in the past. You mustn't expect any great usage times per battery cycle, anymore, due to the age of the hardware. Batteries don't last forever.
I don't use any fancy apps. Only adaway, TiBa, solid explorer and the venom tweaks of ViperOne M9 require root.
Sent from my HTC One M9 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those are excellent apps.
I wish I could install hosts via adb or Adaway itself via that command on NOUGAT but I can't I don't think.
I use Adaway on my Moto G and it is brilliant.
I prefer an old version of ES File explorer as I'm just familiar with it, but that one you have is great too. Titanium Backup I've always found a little complex.
I'm going to give Naptime a go, I agree force closing apps that are restarted often uses a lot of resources but I'd like an option to turn the phone to a high sleep mode, but still recieve some push notifications I've installed Naptime (before I seen your response) and I gave it permissions with adb.
I'll see how it goes and perhaps report back here if anyone is interested. Also, there's quite a nice article about uninstalling bloat via adb without root that I'm reading here on XDA at the moment. I've already manually force closed apps like ZOE, perhaps I can squeeze a bit more out of the system here and there with that.
Google Services is really killing it, and I don't even have an option for uninstalling Chrome. lol Hello Google!!

Anyone go back to stock from rooted?

I have been finding myself only using Magisk for EmojiOne, but noticing I don't use Emoji like I used to anymore and am thinking since I only use Substratum with a Center Clock mod and have stopped using it for Dark theming, maybe going back to a stock based setup would be fine. I can use the Andromeda thing with Substratum which is an extra step but can do my center clock and possibly emoji one via substratum... not sure what else I would want root for... Updating is a touch of a pain for me. What do yo guys think, and have any of you gone back to stock?

I went back to stock just because I didn't want to have the uncertainty of being rooted.
Nothing wrong with rooting but I love this phone the way it is.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

For myself Rooting was a necessity. The devices sold in the past had so much Crapware.
It was nice to get the latest and greatest ROM and tweak the device to run faster because at that time they were just plain old slow.
Today, depending on where you bought a device devices are very fast. It seems to me that every ROM has an issue that influences the character of the device.
If your device comes from a carrier such as Verizon you should Root it to get rid of their crapware.
It seems their attitude is you only have the right to buy their device not the ability to control, I mean really you think you own it or something? ( yes I'm a VZW hater)
What was the question?

kdkinc said:
For myself Rooting was a necessity. The devices sold in the past had so much Crapware.
It was nice to get the latest and greatest ROM and tweak the device to run faster because at that time they were just plain old slow.
Today, depending on where you bought a device devices are very fast. It seems to me that every ROM has an issue that influences the character of the device.
If your device comes from a carrier such as Verizon you should Root it to get rid of their crapware.
It seems their attitude is you only have the right to buy their device not the ability to control, I mean really you think you own it or something? ( yes I'm a VZW hater)
What was the question?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, I agree 100%. I can simply disable gMail and Calculator, the only 2 APPs pre-installed on my Pixel 2 XL that I don't need. I use Inbox by Google for eMails and a Calculator Widget for that. Aside from the EmojiOne and CenterClock, I don't even dark-theme anymore, especially not on this device with the "black crush" all the OLEDs have an issue with. I was rooted fro KCal, but am finding the Boosted setting works just fine and oddly my Blue Tint has weakened since my first few days where it was really bad. Almost like the display is wearing in and getting better? It's still there, but just not as much as that first fresh opening, so warming up the display isn't needed much for me now either.
I like to see where people's heads are at with each device, and this is one the extra input is nice to read.

I'm actually on the fence about rooting. Just received my phone this weekend and I can't decide. Going to unlock bootloader before fully setting up, but I have been playing with it a little. I've always rooted and ran custom ROMs as well as adaway. With PureNexus on my N6 I stopped flashing for over a year except the occasional ROM update. I simply like Android in it's simplest form.

I will always root, no matter what. The only downside is like you said, having to mess with getting OTAs in an unnatural way. However, seeing as how I flash all factory images, I get them sooner than those waiting on an OTA to hit their phone. Plus once you have all the tools ready to go, it literally only takes a few minutes to flash an update.
I always root because I usually run stock. And while stock on a Pixel 2 XL is damn near close to perfection, it will never be what "I" consider perfect. Which means I have to mess with the /system files to get things "perfect." I've modded the stock launcher, which I couldn't do if I was rooted. I've switched out fonts. I've changed the navbar, status bar, and quick settings. And of course, there's always AdAway which requires root. Granted some of those things can be achieved with third party apps, but I'd rather get it done "internally" whenever possible.

I used to have it for years, then more and more companies (Google and banks) made their apps check for root, and I tired of the cat and mouse game with SuperSU and Magisk. So I unrooted over a year ago. Didn't miss it at all until yesterday, when I wanted to do something with Tasker that requires root. But what I wanted to do falls into the category of "it would be nice" as opposed to "I have/need to do this", so I remain unrooted. I haven't really missed it much.

I am stuck without root since I have the Verizon model which was given to me free from work so I cannot complain too much. I have always rooted and messed with ROMs. The only thing I would need root for with the 2 XL is ad blocking with Chrome. I am trying the Samsung browser and ABP which work pretty well together.
If I didn't have the noise cancellation mic issue on my 6P I think I would have given up root a long time ago...

I rotate between stock and rooted daily lol
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I am sort of glad I found this thread. I'm not a XDA regular but I've been following root guides from here since my Razr Mazz HD. I chose the Pixel in part for the ease of getting root and for Project Fi. Now that I have the phone, I'm not sure I want to root. I've never had a phone with quick updates before. I LOVE AdAway, but is it really worth the tradeoff? AdGuard is just as good if you don't use your VPN slot but if you DO use a VPN and need it.... not rooting forces me to choose between PIA and AdGuard. But do I even need a VPN anymore with Project Fi? Probably... Firefox with uBlock works pretty well too but doesn't work on apps. Oh the decisions.

Ruraltech said:
I am sort of glad I found this thread. I'm not a XDA regular but I've been following root guides from here since my Razr Mazz HD. I chose the Pixel in part for the ease of getting root and for Project Fi. Now that I have the phone, I'm not sure I want to root. I've never had a phone with quick updates before. I LOVE AdAway, but is it really worth the tradeoff? AdGuard is just as good if you don't use your VPN slot but if you DO use a VPN and need it.... not rooting forces me to choose between PIA and AdGuard. But do I even need a VPN anymore with Project Fi? Probably... Firefox with uBlock works pretty well too but doesn't work on apps. Oh the decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like it the way it is, then I'd just leave it. It's a great device on stock. However, having root, AdAway, TiBu, kernels, and mods, is a lot of fun as well. As long as you know adb and fastboot fairly well, rooting and flashing monthly updates is pretty easy :good:

I was rooted from the get go!!

I'm going to try to live without root for a bit but already hating not having AdAway. I just know I won't keep up with updates if I have to do them. I sure wish AdAway didn't need root

Ruraltech said:
I am sort of glad I found this thread. I'm not a XDA regular but I've been following root guides from here since my Razr Mazz HD. I chose the Pixel in part for the ease of getting root and for Project Fi. Now that I have the phone, I'm not sure I want to root. I've never had a phone with quick updates before. I LOVE AdAway, but is it really worth the tradeoff? AdGuard is just as good if you don't use your VPN slot but if you DO use a VPN and need it.... not rooting forces me to choose between PIA and AdGuard. But do I even need a VPN anymore with Project Fi? Probably... Firefox with uBlock works pretty well too but doesn't work on apps. Oh the decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not regretting going back to stock from rooted as the only things I no longer have is center clock and emojione, which I 'could' get using Andromeda / Substratum but heard you have to reconnect to the computer anytime you reboot the phone and decided that's just not worth it for me. I am interested in ad blocking if possible without Root for Chrome. Only Ads that get in my way are via "News" and articles I touch from the Google Feed. Sadly many lately are blatant click-bait, page-hopping crap and slideshows that I refuse to go past the first page on.
Edit: Well, just ran across something known as DNS66 and have that up and running without Root and sure enough, it's blocking Ads on everything, even in Chrome without issue.

sharkie405 said:
I will always root, no matter what. The only downside is like you said, having to mess with getting OTAs in an unnatural way. However, seeing as how I flash all factory images, I get them sooner than those waiting on an OTA to hit their phone. Plus once you have all the tools ready to go, it literally only takes a few minutes to flash an update.
I always root because I usually run stock. And while stock on a Pixel 2 XL is damn near close to perfection, it will never be what "I" consider perfect. Which means I have to mess with the /system files to get things "perfect." I've modded the stock launcher, which I couldn't do if I was rooted. I've switched out fonts. I've changed the navbar, status bar, and quick settings. And of course, there's always AdAway which requires root. Granted some of those things can be achieved with third party apps, but I'd rather get it done "internally" whenever possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whats your few minute process? Do you only have a few apps to restore with data?

plisskenn said:
Whats your few minute process? Do you only have a few apps to restore with data?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash without wiping data.

plisskenn said:
Whats your few minute process? Do you only have a few apps to restore with data?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See below. ?
jrbxx7 said:
Flash without wiping data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using XDA Labs

First thing I did with my unlocked XL 2 was to unlock the bootloader. I then rooted once Magisk was available. I root so I can do pain-free full TiBu of my apps and for AdAway. Even though I have corporate email on my phone, the Magisk Hide bypasses their restrictions in the email app.
I'm actually kind of shocked we don't have more ROMs for this phone, though I'm not a Dev and don't know how complex it may be. If more Devs release custom ROMs, I'll be trying some out for sure.

I never buy android phone unless it's bootloader-unlockable and root-able
Too many handicap applied without root.
I hate dns/vpn based adblock, it cluttering my status bar and notification. So, yes, i need root for adaway,
Google limit Tethering frequency option for my country (No 5Ghz) so, yes, i need root to enable it,
I like the ability to background play youtube, and see youtube without ads, so yes, i root my phone for that. Sure, no root option is available, but lot of problem with google account cant sign in, and this and that.
I like the ability to use Brevent, Edge Sense Plus, Greenify etc without the need of plugging my phone to PC and do adb command. So, yes, i rooted my phone for that.
The phone will never be 100% yours, unless you have total control over anything inside it
So,
There's no way am back to stock. Especially with xposed working so well right now.

otonieru said:
I like the ability to background play youtube, and see youtube without ads, so yes, i root my phone for that. Sure, no root option is available, but lot of problem with google account cant sign in, and this and that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming you are using Magisk, how did you get YouTube Red without subscribing? (You can PM me if you don't want to hijack this thread...)

Inexplicable autonomous app update behavior when plugged in & wifi on. A real puzzle.

Inexplicable autonomous app update behavior when plugged in & wifi on. A real puzzle.
Facts:
1) Two phones, Pixel 3 and 3 XL, latest patches. Both rooted, running ElementalX and Magisk. Both have same apps installed and settings.
2) Playstore "Auto-update" is disabled, set to "Don't auto-update apps".
3) Play Protect is fully disabled.
4) TiBu has no scheduled jobs
5) No threat/system scanner running
Behavior background:
1) Started noticing a few months ago (so not a patch update issue).
2) Happens only when phone is charging and wifi on (I have wifi set to turn on when plugged in, I have not isolated whether it is caused by one or the other, or both).
3) Seems to happen around/between 10:20 PM and 11:20 PM PST, based on file timestamp.
4) Does not happen every night. I charge the phone (therefore wifi turns on during charge) every night). I have not been able to find a pattern.
The strange behavior I cannot explain:
1) When it happens, a few (can be 1, 2, or 5) apps are found to have been updated on their own.
2) However, these apps are not shown updated in the Playstore and their version remained the same.
3) When I go to data/app, these apps look like they are updated based on time/date stamp (from the night before).
4) However, their version number has not changed, Playstore does not show a recent update.
5) It does not matter when the app was last truly updated or installed. Even disabled app will get this "ghost re-install/update". Apps seem to be picked randomly.
In sum, I find a few apps that get randomly self-updated, but they were really not updated. The version has changed and Playstore does not know anything about it (not on update list). Also, version has not changed. In fact, though, their timestamp show that it was updated.
Here is the kicker--I see the behavior in both phones. AND, they are the same (at least about the same list of) apps that get the "ghost update". If I don't plug in one phone to charge (and wifi not on), that phone does not get the update until the next time it is plugged in.
W-T-F???

What are the apps? Is it always the same ones?

Seemingly random apps, both user-installed and system (e.g., Chrome, Data Transfer Tool). I have not been able to detect a pattern on which app gets this ghost update. I started noticing this late December, best guess.

I almost don't want to even bring this issue back up since I haven't noticed it in a couple of months. I was noticing it a lot on all 6 of my devices (including Pixel 3XL and Pixel 3) because I would go to Titanium Backup and see apps showing as due for backup of a new version. Nothing showed in Play Store, and the App description on Play showed the same version as before with the old last updated date. Either they have fixed it or hidden it better, but it seamed to be some sort of security patch at an app level. Here are a couple of old threads including my Google thread and a couple of reddit threads. I still have an open support case on it, but since it stopped happening and different folks at Google kept ignoring my replies to the man suggesting stupid-a$$ things (like factory resetting my devices and signing off and on with a new user on different devices) I just dropped it.
P.S. I never did notice the plugged in thing, but that is not to say it wasn't happening. I was asleep when it happened as far as I know.
https://productforums.google.com/fo...rce=footer#!msg/play/Pgzokc69Qt8/9V1n27ONBwAJ
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/co...lently_updating_some_apps_even_when/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/co...lently_updating_some_apps_even_when/?sort=new

Found this, too, but it's from 2013: https://arstechnica.com/information...ng-android-apps-possibly-including-facebooks/

sliding_billy said:
I almost don't want to even bring this issue back up since I haven't noticed it in a couple of months. I was noticing it a lot on all 6 of my devices (including Pixel 3XL and Pixel 3) because I would go to Titanium Backup and see apps showing as due for backup of a new version. Nothing showed in Play Store, and the App description on Play showed the same version as before with the old last updated date. Either they have fixed it or hidden it better, but it seamed to be some sort of security patch at an app level. Here are a couple of old threads including my Google thread and a couple of reddit threads. I still have an open support case on it, but since it stopped happening and different folks at Google kept ignoring my replies to the man suggesting stupid-a$$ things (like factory resetting my devices and signing off and on with a new user on different devices) I just dropped it.
P.S. I never did notice the plugged in thing, but that is not to say it wasn't happening. I was asleep when it happened as far as I know.
https://productforums.google.com/fo...rce=footer#!msg/play/Pgzokc69Qt8/9V1n27ONBwAJ
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/co...lently_updating_some_apps_even_when/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/co...lently_updating_some_apps_even_when/?sort=new
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fury683 said:
Found this, too, but it's from 2013: https://arstechnica.com/information...ng-android-apps-possibly-including-facebooks/
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Many thanks for the links. This is exactly what I am seeing. One of the posts in the link described the install as exact same apk and version. It is also what I see. It still does not explain what is going on behind the scenes, but at least it is good to know that I am not the only one seeing this. For most people, they are not aware. I see it because I use a backup app for newly installed apps. As such, everytime an app installed or updated, I get a notification.

snovvman said:
Many thanks for the links. This is exactly what I am seeing. One of the posts in the link described the install as exact same apk and version. It is also what I see. It still does not explain what is going on behind the scenes, but at least it is good to know that I am not the only one seeing this. For most people, they are not aware. I see it because I use a backup app for newly installed apps. As such, everytime an app installed or updated, I get a notification.
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No problem. I do wonder if your devices are new. As I mentioned, I have not seen this behavior in months on any of my devices. I do think it was an in place Google side security patch to the actual app installer or something that they can control from Play without modifying the app code itself, and if yours have not been modified yet it will catch up when it finishes all of the apps that need it.

sliding_billy said:
No problem. I do wonder if your devices are new. As I mentioned, I have not seen this behavior in months on any of my devices. I do think it was an in place Google side security patch to the actual app installer or something that they can control from Play without modifying the app code itself, and if yours have not been modified yet it will catch up when it finishes all of the apps that need it.
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Both of my devices were pre-order (from last year) and were activated as soon as I received them. Some of the newer apps that were updated this way were newer, like Pixel Tips and Data Transfer Tool. Apps like SmartThings, Lutron, and Pushover were recently updated normally through Playstore, but they were ghost updated a few days ago. If the theory were true, on these basis, it is unclear why Google would need to/want to update/re-update the apps this way.

snovvman said:
Both of my devices were pre-order (from last year) and were activated as soon as I received them. Some of the newer apps that were updated this way were newer, like Pixel Tips and Data Transfer Tool. Apps like SmartThings, Lutron, and Pushover were recently updated normally through Playstore, but they were ghost updated a few days ago. If the theory were true, on these basis, it is unclear why Google would need to/want to update/re-update the apps this way.
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Well the fact that your devices are a hair older than mine (I got my 3XL and 3 very shortly after public release) does quash that argument. The one thing I can think of that is still different is the detection method each of us has used. TB has been updated a few times in the past couple of months to start, and even if not Google could still be making changes that are not seen by TB. What backup app/notification process are you using?

Are these all Google apps or services? Many of them update outside of the app store on their own.

TonikJDK said:
Are these all Google apps or services? Many of them update outside of the app store on their own.
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No, it has happened to plenty of 3rd party apps both root apps and not.

sliding_billy said:
Well the fact that your devices are a hair older than mine (I got my 3XL and 3 very shortly after public release) does quash that argument. The one thing I can think of that is still different is the detection method each of us has used. TB has been updated a few times in the past couple of months to start, and even if not Google could still be making changes that are not seen by TB. What backup app/notification process are you using?
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Click to collapse
Two apps I use that tells me when an app was installed/updated:
App Monster Pro ** "old version" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.think_android.apps.appmonster.cloud
The current PS version, based on reviews, does not do what the old version does. The old version, which I continue to use, and works well, will make a backup of the installed apk any time an app is updated or installed. I can decide the number of revisions to keep. This allows me to roll back if I need to. The most helpful part, as it turns out, is knowing when an app is updated--even Playstore or other non-Playstore-installed apps will spawn a notification. The backup is in a plain apk, which makes it easy to transport and share.
The other tool is My Android Tools Pro -- https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/general/guide-android-toolspro-one-fav-apps-t3262150
This app allows me to cut off broadcast receivers, disable services, manifest apk activities and content providers. It also includes a logcat viewer, process explorers, and more. Root is required. This app refined over time but was taken off of the Playstore. It does not appear to be maintained anymore, but still works well. I sort the app list based on newly installed apps and it clearly shows me what was truly and recently installed. I use the app to cut off broadcast receivers and services that relate to app measurement, install referrer, etc. For some apps, I cut off the startup receiver. They help to keep occasionally used apps from launching needlessly. Other may have opinions, but these methods work well for me.
Lastly, I used Root Explorer to verify the app install dates (per post 1).
TonikJDK said:
Are these all Google apps or services? Many of them update outside of the app store on their own.
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Adding to post #3, they are both Google and 3rd-party apps. The publisher of the app does not appear to matter.

snovvman said:
Two apps I use that tells me when an app was installed/updated:
App Monster Pro ** "old version" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.think_android.apps.appmonster.cloud
The current PS version, based on reviews, does not do what the old version does. The old version, which I continue to use, and works well, will make a backup of the installed apk any time an app is updated or installed. I can decide the number of revisions to keep. This allows me to roll back if I need to. The most helpful part, as it turns out, is knowing when an app is updated--even Playstore or other non-Playstore-installed apps will spawn a notification. The backup is in a plain apk, which makes it easy to transport and share.
The other tool is My Android Tools Pro -- https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/general/guide-android-toolspro-one-fav-apps-t3262150
This app allows me to cut off broadcast receivers, disable services, manifest apk activities and content providers. It also includes a logcat viewer, process explorers, and more. Root is required. This app refined over time but was taken off of the Playstore. It does not appear to be maintained anymore, but still works well. I sort the app list based on newly installed apps and it clearly shows me what was truly and recently installed. I use the app to cut off broadcast receivers and services that relate to app measurement, install referrer, etc. For some apps, I cut off the startup receiver. They help to keep occasionally used apps from launching needlessly. Other may have opinions, but these methods work well for me.
Lastly, I used Root Explorer to verify the app install dates (per post 1).
Adding to post #3, they are both Google and 3rd-party apps. The publisher of the app does not appear to matter.
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Starting to look more and more like Google is still making changes in the background but it is not being detected by any current backup apps. Since the two you were using have either been deprecated or abandoned, it's hard to say if Google has actually changed what was being updated or just the possibility of detection. Short of someone getting into the app code for a hard comparison between pre/post versions (beyond my skill set for sure), my guess is this is going to go unanswered since Google is clearly still making changes but not releasing the "why" or "what."

sliding_billy said:
Starting to look more and more like Google is still making changes in the background but it is not being detected by any current backup apps. Since the two you were using have either been deprecated or abandoned, it's hard to say if Google has actually changed what was being updated or just the possibility of detection. Short of someone getting into the app code for a hard comparison between pre/post versions (beyond my skill set for sure), my guess is this is going to go unanswered since Google is clearly still making changes but not releasing the "why" or "what."
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I agree. What I can say with certainty is that those apps were at least "reinstalled" because of the folder/file dates. Also, my two phones are seeing the same apps being updated. This suggests that there are some logic behind it.

snovvman said:
I agree. What I can say with certainty is that those apps were at least "reinstalled" because of the folder/file dates. Also, my two phones are seeing the same apps being updated. This suggests that there are some logic behind it.
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Yeah, the "updates" my not have happened at the same time (or even the same day) but eventually the apps that are shared on various devices would end up modified for me as well.

FSTRIM?
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

pkelly517 said:
FSTRIM?
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
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I am not using the FSTRIM app, and the fact that eventually all of the same apps (6 devices on various Android versions) would end up getting updated but not all apps makes it unlikely that native trimming is causing it.

Not being able to convert app to system app on Pixel 3xl

I rooted my phone recently using Magisk and when I'm trying to convert an app to system app I'm getting an error of no space. The system space is 816mb and is full. Please guide me on how to increase it.

Aayushgoel001 said:
I rooted my phone recently using Magisk and when I'm trying to convert an app to system app I'm getting an error of no space. The system space is 816mb and is full. Please guide me on how to increase it.
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The system partition partition is locked out as of Android 10 (the out of space error is misleading). There are ways to make systemless changes that mirror system changes with Magisk Modules. You'll need to do some research.

Same here search everywhere for a magisk mod to fix. I hit a wall lol

This is just another way of Google giving the modding community the middle finger. I for one will be getting a 1 plus phone on my next device. Not sure exactly why everything seems to be different from them but I don't hear any complaints from anybody using their phones.
Google is literally doing everything they can to smash the modding community. Personally, and I know I'm going to catch flack for this, but if they ever totally get rid of root I am gone. There is no point in putting up with all the third-party BS and all of Google's broken apps malware-filled Play store and sub-par performance if it's not for root

Shaftamle said:
...........and I know I'm going to catch flack for this, but if they ever totally get rid of root I am gone. There is no point in putting up with all the third-party BS and all of Google's broken apps malware-filled Play store and sub-par performance if it's not for root
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Why would you think you'd catch flack?? Your 100% spot on! The only reason I got this phone is to be able to strip out as much google as I possibly could. I have 95% of google apps disabled with TB (don't trust googles 'disable' nonsense) and use alternate apps from alternate sources. I also use AdGuard to disable most google IP's and tracking and a VPN to further my privacy effort. Not that I'm a 'tin hat' guy but to me the challenge to eradicate google is a fun hobby of sorts. So I agree, not being able to write to system and lack of TWRP support will most likely have me going OnePlus 8 next time. The only reason I chose 3XL over OnePlus 7 was lack of wireless charging, that was a deal breaker for me but would have tolerated it if I knew there would (looks like) never be TWRP.