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Has anyone else been having a problem with their newly purchased Sprint S6 where the signal shows as 1 bar LTE on the s6 while other phones activated on sprint show better LTE signal at the same location? Even though the s6 and other phone's downloads speeds are the same, it always shows as 1, max 2 bars lte on the S6, although when placing a call the LTE indicator shows more bars for some reason. My family has two new S6's on our plan, and their both experiencing this issue. That and a few calls that didn't go through are making my dad freak out and wanna go back to his GS4.
pearsonpsh said:
Has anyone else been having a problem with their newly purchased Sprint S6 where the signal shows as 1 bar LTE on the s6 while other phones activated on sprint show better LTE signal at the same location? Even though the s6 and other phone's downloads speeds are the same, it always shows as 1, max 2 bars lte on the S6, although when placing a call the LTE indicator shows more bars for some reason. My family has two new S6's on our plan, and their both experiencing this issue. That and a few calls that didn't go through are making my dad freak out and wanna go back to his GS4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bars don't matter, what matters is Settings-->About Device-->Status--->Signal Strength.
I know, but I think there may be an error with the LTE indicator in the notification bar, and my dad says its driving him crazy.
pearsonpsh said:
I know, but I think there may be an error with the LTE indicator in the notification bar, and my dad says its driving him crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is the same.
i have the same problem. i updated my prl and profile to see if it would help and it didn't. then contacted sprint and they did a manual provision refresh. that seemed to solve the problem for now.
Mine is at one damn bar of LTE everywhere... doesnt seem to affect my speed of data usage... its fast... but it does have to search for that signal allot...
OK I think I see what ya'll are saying now. Just curious, what's your software version, OCF?? Also, anyone got a good fix?
Same here, on OCF
I noticed that as soon as the call connects, the bars shoot up.
I also have this issue on OCF. Question, has anyone rooted OCF yet? If so, which method did you use?
I am in exactly the same boat. I just changed from the S4, and at work we tested our phones side by side an S4, S5, and S6 and mine was the worst. I had to turn my LTE totally off in order to do anything. Please tell me this is something that Samsung can fix because I love this phone and don't know what to do.
Ya know,, 2 days ago I did changed my mobile network settings from Automatic to lte/CDMA. ALSO DID run an PRL update a d such but my signal had great actually, and my battery actually has improved alot since the change. Very well could be an Radio issue. That's what I'm guessing it is
Is it me or does this phone have a issue with making calls example tons of dropped calls, or do I need to get another phone
Guys, Samsung knows about this.... Supposedly will be rolling out an OTA soon to fix it,
Lets hope so. I'm convinced all of this poor battery life is from the modem / signal.
JoeFCaputo113 said:
Guys, Samsung knows about this.... Supposedly will be rolling out an OTA soon to fix it,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was messing around if you just select CDMA you will not drop calls until a fix if you guys want to do that
The signal display mainly looks bad because it's a Tri Band phone. On your s4 it would display the voice strength even though you were connected to LTE. On the tri band phones it only connects to LTE, and the switches to voice when making or receiving calls that's why you see the signal jump up when making a call. LTE does not travel/penetrate as well as voice and CDMA, but good news is that it does not have too to get good speeds.
Check out an app called Signal Check. It's cool to actually see your real signal and it just some bars. It will also tell you what band of LTE you are on.
sethmcmichael said:
The signal display mainly looks bad because it's a Tri Band phone. On your s4 it would display the voice strength even though you were connected to LTE. On the tri band phones it only connects to LTE, and the switches to voice when making or receiving calls that's why you see the signal jump up when making a call. LTE does not travel/penetrate as well as voice and CDMA, but good news is that it does not have too to get good speeds.
Check out an app called Signal Check. It's cool to actually see your real signal and it just some bars. It will also tell you what band of LTE you are on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that but doesn't help the people that are getting tons of dropped calls like myself
JoeFCaputo113 said:
Guys, Samsung knows about this.... Supposedly will be rolling out an OTA soon to fix it,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any info on a update I can't take all the dropped calls driving me crazy now
Even on OC9, we were experiencing the dropped calls. Finally, updated to OCF today, to see if it helped, but actually feel it may have gotten worse, seem to be experiencing more dropped calls.
I was wondering why my phone always displayed the 3G logo next to signal bar so decided to investigate further. Despite living in the centre of town the 4G around here is quite patchy so I put an identical "Three(3UK)" 4G sim in my old Moto G 4G phone and went outside to compare...sure enough, the Moto G was showing 4G while the P8000 showed 3G. As far as I know I have never seen 4G in the display. The phone will be going back if I can't get 4G!
Anyone else experienced this or am I the odd one out?
4G is selected under preferred network type.
Have you tried Editting the APN settings to that for Three?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Free mobile app
Go to dial pad and type:
*#*#4636#*#* that should take you to phone info. then on nework mode choose LTE only and see if it works...
APN seems fine, thanks for that hashcode @ferreinf - I will try that when I'm definitely in a 4g area near my flat
My brother has just got one and is having exactly the same issue on Three. Any joy?
Lol
I will Rek u after u read this
-OCv ReckeR
Wilbatron said:
My brother has just got one and is having exactly the same issue on Three. Any joy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I drove to a 4g area nearby today and force enabled LTE only as described(you can also d/l MTK engineering app from playstore to do this) - I did manage to get the 4g symbol above the signal bars but a speedtest didn't really produce what you might expect from a 4g connection...the symbol did change back by itself to H about a minute later so I'm not quite sure what's going on here....I might have an old Vodafone PAYG sim somewhere so my next move might be to try it instead. Haven't got access to EE or O2/giffgaff cards to test. APN settings seem to be correct and 3g data does work quite well so it's interesting that your bro has the same issues, where did he buy his phone and what colour is it(does his have the blue notification led in home button?)
Wilbatron said:
My brother has just got one and is having exactly the same issue on Three. Any joy?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use 3 4G I have no problem
I will Rek u after u read this
-OCv ReckeR
charliepie said:
where did he buy his phone and what colour is it(does his have the blue notification led in home button?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it might have been geekbuying, it only came today. Black one with blue LED. I got him to try switching to LTE only and he said he got a 4g signal but lost ability to make calls. I'm also on 3 but with a Honor 6 and I'm due to see him tomorrow so I'll have a tinker myself and see how his signal is compared to mine in the same location.
That will indeed be a good test, I was out again in another location tonight and noticed the 4g come on by itself so perhaps that's a good sign - I'll have to test the calls function when on 4g tomorrow but it should automatically revert to 3g for that surely. I am using the flyme rom by the way...my area is supposed to have 4g according to the coverage checker but it's bloody useless around here!
That Honor 6 better be good for $300 though you probably paid more at the time(did you get single or dual sim?),
I actually bought the P8000 for my wife but she finds it too heavy and the screen too big so I'm stuck with the big gold brick - at least the battery life is pretty good!
Tested the 4g again and it seems to be working better now that I forced it to LTE through the engineering menu and when you make a call it reverts to 3g then cycles back to H then 4g when you end call. Didn't test d/l speed as I had my payg card in and running a 4g speedtest burns quite a lot of data!
So how do you rate your Honor 6 against your bros phone?
4g just popped up on mine, got 25.3 down and 2.2 up. Not sure if that's good or bad to he honest.
Sent from my Elephone P8000 using XDA Free mobile app
That's pretty good I'd say, I would be happy with that! I flashed the stock ROM back today and forced phone to LTE and your bro is right about the calls not working as the phone doesn't revert to 3g for voice automatically so I might have to go back to flyme...hope cm ROM is here soon and that it works well!
Tried again today on stock rom not forced to 4G and the phone did pick up 4g automatically as I was driving around, calls worked too so it seems that problem has magically fixed itself as it wasn't showing 4g at all the first week I had it! Still getting the annoying random wifi hangs and camera crashes when trying to use with other apps(waze in my case).
there's an firmware update adressing this issue, dated august 15th. it should fix this.
http://bbs.elephone.hk/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=7096
Sorry, not been back to this thread since contributing before.
My brother is still complaining about internet speeds. When I sat with him I was getting H+ but his phone was just showing 3G. Tried to force to 4G only but that resulted in no signal (we were in a weak 4G area). So my main concern at the mo is that he might not be getting H+ and is only either getting standard 3G.
It's difficult to debug from afar, but I did all the usual engineering menu stuff when I was with him and none of that seemed to help. I'm seeing him again on Saturday and we'll both be in a 4G area so I'll at least be able to do some more comparisons...
Regarding my Honor, it's a lovely phone. I paid about £200 for the single SIM European version of it back in January. I had a Lenovo A830 prior to that so I'm a big Chinaphone fan, but didn't want anything bigger than 5" which is what made me go for the Honor. The P8000 seems very nice too though!
---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 PM ----------
I remember on my A830 having to flash a different modem / radio image to get the correct bands and I notice a similar issue with some import OPOs detailed here forums.oneplus.net/threads/modem-hack-for-chinese-opo-to-enable-3g.46696 - I suspect a similar issue might be at play here.
Might flash the FlyMe ROM for him at the weekend seeing as people have had success with that...
Hi,
I have 4G issue too but have yet to see 4G display once and I"m in a strong signal area.
I have configured my APN for giffgaff, data is enabled, 4g is "preferred" in options and LTE is forced in Eng menu as above *#*#4636#*#*
But still no 4g from my sim which is working as tried in another phone any ideas please?
what does the 3g with a smaller 3g behind it mean?
Regards
We know how much you like to stream, ahem, "videos", and so cellular data is mega-important. Rate this thread to express how you think the Samsung Galaxy S8+'s LTE performs. A higher rating indicates that it's fantastic: throughput is excellent and signal strength is top-notch.
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add.
I get a low 4g signal at work whereas on my s7 edge I didn't get anything
Mine is a lot better than any phone I've had before. Usually at home on all my other phones I have 1-2 bars and on the S8+ I have at least 4 bars.
Bars are no indication of true signal strength. My S8+ doesn't get nearly as strong of a signal as my Pixel XL. I drop signal a lot more often now. I was rather disappointed with the performance of the cell radio actually.
For me, the signal is about the same at home. But at work, the S8+ performs much better than the Note5 that I had... Must be an extra band or something. The Note5 would hang on to an unusable LTE signal or drop to 3G/1x inside my job. The S8+ stays on on LTE with a usable signal.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
It's worst Then S8 as I used that before shifting to S8 plus. But download speed is great.
My S7 was better. The S7 ised a new duel antenna tech, I am not sure the S8 used it or not.
My AT&T Note 4 and my new S8+ get about the same signal, which is really disappointing
I generally see around 5-8dbm better then I did with my pixel xl at home..notice the s8+ does drop signal little easier tho then my pixel in fringe areas
Tested right outside my house. Never had these speeds on my Note 5.
Comming from a S6, the signals and speeds are far better, also my s6 was missing a few bands so never ever got speeds like this on my Jio 4G Network in India
At work on LTE Im getting 31 Mbps down and 6 Mbps up. Not bad! Faster than our company wifi!
webtech9 said:
At work on LTE Im getting 31 Mbps down and 6 Mbps up. Not bad! Faster than our company wifi!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used to get 54Mbps which WAS faster than the company wifi. Then we bumped up to 500Mb.
Poor Reception in Canada on Bell Mobility
I just got an unlocked S8+ that was apparently originally from Sprint (because that is where the home page goes in Samsung Internet).
I do not get very good reception on it – even in urban/suburban areas. Sometimes, when I am inside a building, it disappears altogether. I often get 1 or 2 bars on the reception indicator. If I check the “Sim Card Status” screen under settings I get -105 dBm 3 asu. I don’t really know what those numbers mean.
Is there anything I can do to improve reception? Should I be calling Bell and maybe they need to know what kind of phone I have? Should I expect an S8+ purchased directly from Bell (they also carry this phone) to have better reception? Or is the reception of “105 dBm 3 asu” fine and it’s just the indicator showing low levels?
As much as I like this phone I cannot be missing calls randomly. I have a business to run.
Thanks.
The Fish
thefish123 said:
I just got an unlocked S8+ that was apparently originally from Sprint (because that is where the home page goes in Samsung Internet).
I do not get very good reception on it – even in urban/suburban areas. Sometimes, when I am inside a building, it disappears altogether. I often get 1 or 2 bars on the reception indicator. If I check the “Sim Card Status” screen under settings I get -105 dBm 3 asu. I don’t really know what those numbers mean.
Is there anything I can do to improve reception? Should I be calling Bell and maybe they need to know what kind of phone I have? Should I expect an S8+ purchased directly from Bell (they also carry this phone) to have better reception? Or is the reception of “105 dBm 3 asu” fine and it’s just the indicator showing low levels?
As much as I like this phone I cannot be missing calls randomly. I have a business to run.
Thanks.
The Fish
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey fish you want it down, the dBm i mean. Here's a quote "-50 dBm is great signal or full bars. -120 dBm is very poor signal or a dead zone." you at 105 dBm is garbage, no wonder your missing calls.. Since you are experiencing network issues, you could get a replacement, but i don’t think it will make much difference. as it's all same hardware. Why not get a Google Pixel XL i heard they got awesome reception! Or if you’re at home a lot, purchase an lte repeater booster ? Problem Solved!
Drop in signal & Block sign
Im living in UAE - and my service provider is etisalat, and my 4G signal is dropping and sometimes i get block sign, i tried my sim in different device it working.
i have started a thread on the subject if anyone could help me please.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...block-sign-t3851575/post77823171#post77823171
N1NJATH3ORY said:
Hey fish you want it down, the dBm i mean. Here's a quote "-50 dBm is great signal or full bars. -120 dBm is very poor signal or a dead zone." you at 105 dBm is garbage, no wonder your missing calls.. Since you are experiencing network issues, you could get a replacement, but i don’t think it will make much difference. as it's all same hardware. Why not get a Google Pixel XL i heard they got awesome reception! Or if you’re at home a lot, purchase an lte repeater booster ? Problem Solved!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went through a whole “carrier switching” routine (details found somewhere on these forums) and after changing the CSC to Canadian I flashed Bell Mobility's firmware. The phone now shows that it’s an SM-G955W which is the Canadian model. And apparently now supports additional LTE bands 29(700) and 30(2300) which were missing from the SM-G955U (I determined this by dialing *#2263#).
I have no idea if it *really* supports these bands or just *says* that it does but my gut tells me that it really does support them. I suspect that the hardware for the SM-G955U and SM-G955W is 100% identical and any differences are controlled through software only.
And I seem to have better reception now. I am getting 4 to 5 bars in most places and under -100 dBm in most places. Plus Wi-Fi calling works now so I have reception in my basement at my house.
The true test will be when we go camping next summer.
The Fish
thefish123 said:
I went through a whole “carrier switching” routine (details found somewhere on these forums) and after changing the CSC to Canadian I flashed Bell Mobility's firmware. The phone now shows that it’s an SM-G955W which is the Canadian model. And apparently now supports additional LTE bands 29(700) and 30(2300) which were missing from the SM-G955U (I determined this by dialing *#2263#).
I have no idea if it *really* supports these bands or just *says* that it does but my gut tells me that it really does support them. I suspect that the hardware for the SM-G955U and SM-G955W is 100% identical and any differences are controlled through software only.
And I seem to have better reception now. I am getting 4 to 5 bars in most places and under -100 dBm in most places. Plus Wi-Fi calling works now so I have reception in my basement at my house.
The true test will be when we go camping next summer.
The Fish
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy days for you i do suffer poor signal in my house:crying: i'll see if i can flash the CSC to fix it, thanks for the update!
s7 does lot better than 8+ in the same room
Hi,
Bought S10+ in INDIA yesterday however i saw low/less network bars hence i checked the signal strength for comparison.
To my surprise, this was a known bug on "some" S10+ hence i should request for a replacement from Samsung but i need to be sure before Samsung acknowledges. No call drops recorded as of now.
I get -78 to -84 dBM on Pixel while i am getting -81 to -91dBM on S10+. (using same location for comparison)
Also, i used to get LTE on my PIXEL XL and now i get 4G sign on S10+
Does anyone compared the network strength with their old phones or am i the only one facing this network issue on S10+?
kanav1234 said:
Hi,
Bought S10+ in INDIA yesterday however i saw low/less network bars hence i checked the signal strength for comparison.
To my surprise, this was a known bug on "some" S10+ hence i should request for a replacement from Samsung but i need to be sure before Samsung acknowledges. No call drops recorded as of now.
I get -78 to -84 dBM on Pixel while i am getting -81 to -91dBM on S10+. (using same location for comparison)
Also, i used to get LTE on my PIXEL XL and now i get 4G sign on S10+
Does anyone compared the network strength with their old phones or am i the only one facing this network issue on S10+?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also have a problem
maharshi8 said:
I also have a problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nevermind
Huigie said:
nevermind
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you see any improvements post updates?
Regarding the LTE and 4G symbol, that's probably because India doesn't have real LTE yet. It's basically glorified HSPA+ and carriers are bsing everyone.
Here in the US I get LTE, but when I took this phone to New Delhi, India and popped in my Vodafone Sim card, I only received LTE in parts of New Delhi (speeds up to 40mbps/40mbps), other parts it was 4G (speeds up to 10mbps/2mbps). So that's that regarding the symbols, pixel probably didn't have a differentiation between either connections and labeled it as LTE.
Download LTE Discovery, it will tell you which exact bands you are connected to, you can pop your sim card back into the Pixel for comparison.
Hi all, I just recently bought this pixel 6 pro a few weeks ago and I've been having horrible connection issues. The main one that plagues me is when all of a sudden, for no reason, I lose mobile data connection. I have some bars of signal with the LTE or 5G icon but with an exclamation point in it. Or sometimes it just loses signal randomly like in the screenshot below. Both screenshots were taken minutes apart.
I've noticed this was an issue for most people and have posted about this here, but I haven't seen anyone complain about it recently. Is there a fix for this problem?
Unfortunately for a great manu people, myself included this phone has garbage reception. There is no known fix.
Me to
My troubles began after I updated the phone to A13 enrolling to Beta and then leaving it.
The problem was that the phone will be stuck to H+ all day although weI have good coverage of 4G and 5G in town. Sometimes the connection would just drop and I had to engage flight mode to reset it.
Yesterday I decided that I had enough and did the reset of network settings. Today I have noticed that the problem was solved. Now I have 4g and 5g as in the past. But the problem now is that the Internet just would not work from time to time although it shows full bars. Had to use aeroplane mode again today about 3 times.
It's very annoying to say the least. Had thoughts of changing the phone. Not even speaking about heating issues when on mobile. Horrible.
leafar1606 said:
My troubles began after I updated the phone to A13 enrolling to Beta and then leaving it.
The problem was that the phone will be stuck to H+ all day although weI have good coverage of 4G and 5G in town. Sometimes the connection would just drop and I had to engage flight mode to reset it.
Yesterday I decided that I had enough and did the reset of network settings. Today I have noticed that the problem was solved. Now I have 4g and 5g as in the past. But the problem now is that the Internet just would not work from time to time although it shows full bars. Had to use aeroplane mode again today about 3 times.
It's very annoying to say the least. Had thoughts of changing the phone. Not even speaking about heating issues when on mobile. Horrible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also have to occasionally switch on/off airplane mode when the phone cannot connect to the internet from time to time
i agree, terrible signal problems, all time. I`ll try to reset all network settings
for me it`s a disrespect from google to treat all final user like beta tester
Same here. Super slow connection even in areas with towers close by.
Been having this issue ever since I updated to Android 13.
Having only had the phone for 2 weeks, I took it to my provider who said all they can do is return it to Google. With both my eSIM and my physical sim dropping out together, apparently its an RIL problem. They did say that if it's just an issue with one SIM card, replacing it will fix it.
I think this can be solved downgrading to android 12.1 dev you can downgrade to android 12.1 without downgrade bootloader it's safe and don't brick your device because it's a android 12 that runs over android 13 bootloader. Keep in mind that this will erase your data permanently! Do a backup before do it
This has been happening since the phone came out. This is due to the old modem they are using from Samsung. There is no fix.
My coworker has this happen with his 6 Pro, while my 6 is perfect ironically. He has verizon, I got tmobile. He has to leave the store to make a call, but I don't. This has been for the last 6 months though
Teet1 said:
Hi all, I just recently bought this pixel 6 pro a few weeks ago and I've been having horrible connection issues. The main one that plagues me is when all of a sudden, for no reason, I lose mobile data connection. I have some bars of signal with the LTE or 5G icon but with an exclamation point in it. Or sometimes it just loses signal randomly like in the screenshot below. Both screenshots were taken minutes apart.
I've noticed this was an issue for most people and have posted about this here, but I haven't seen anyone complain about it recently. Is there a fix for this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weird because this phone has better signal than my gf s22U IV never had trouble with it dropping like at all, hope use get a fix
TonikJDK said:
Unfortunately for a great manu people, myself included this phone has garbage reception. There is no known fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup! It's crazy and makes me wary of staying with the Pixel line
kevinireland11 said:
Weird because this phone has better signal than my gf s22U IV never had trouble with it dropping like at all, hope use get a fix
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
P6P has better signal than the S22 Ultra? lol #troll
Visera said:
Been having this issue ever since I updated to Android 13.
Having only had the phone for 2 weeks, I took it to my provider who said all they can do is return it to Google. With both my eSIM and my physical sim dropping out together, apparently its an RIL problem. They did say that if it's just an issue with one SIM card, replacing it will fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Had the phone sent away to Google for repairs as the issue ended up happening when I was showing my provider. Got it back and Google said there were "no issues" with it and they couldn't replicate it with either SIM type. Either they put out a hotfix or it magically went away, but I'll see how it goes after using it again.
Teet1 said:
Hi all, I just recently bought this pixel 6 pro a few weeks ago and I've been having horrible connection issues. The main one that plagues me is when all of a sudden, for no reason, I lose mobile data connection. I have some bars of signal with the LTE or 5G icon but with an exclamation point in it. Or sometimes it just loses signal randomly like in the screenshot below. Both screenshots were taken minutes apart.
I've noticed this was an issue for most people and have posted about this here, but I haven't seen anyone complain about it recently. Is there a fix for this problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you've got another phone (5G compatible), you can try to see if the problem is the phone, or the actual network coverage.
Also, something else you could do is switch to 4G and see if the problem persists.
The thing with 5G is that the coverage is really spotty. That's in general. I don't live in the US, so I don't know what the actual coverage is over there. But that's a general thing with 5G. It cannot penetrate as well as 4G, and even worse than 3G or 2G. When you increase frequency, you lose distance (coverage). So basically 5G needs a lot more repeaters to get proper coverage.
But you could try another phone in the exact same area. Oor..try to switch to 4G and see if the issue still occurs. You could also call the carrier and ask if they have any idea why is this happening.
arsradu said:
If you've got another phone (5G compatible), you can try to see if the problem is the phone, or the actual network coverage.
Also, something else you could do is switch to 4G and see if the problem persists.
The thing with 5G is that the coverage is really spotty. That's in general. I don't live in the US, so I don't know what the actual coverage is over there. But that's a general thing with 5G. It cannot penetrate as well as 4G, and even worse than 3G or 2G. When you increase frequency, you lose distance (coverage). So basically 5G needs a lot more repeaters to get proper coverage.
But you could try another phone in the exact same area. Oor..try to switch to 4G and see if the issue still occurs. You could also call the carrier and ask if they have any idea why is this happening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Facts, I changed from 5G to LTE as my preferred Network and have much better connectivity
HipKat said:
Facts, I changed from 5G to LTE as my preferred Network and have much better connectivity
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same with me. I keep 5G turned off for a couple reasons.
1, battery life.
2. 4G is fast enough for me.
3. Better signal.
p51d007 said:
Same with me. I keep 5G turned off for a couple reasons.
1, battery life.
2. 4G is fast enough for me.
3. Better signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh Battery life for sure. HUGE difference!