Develop Bugs

Simplistic HTC Hero Kernel Question.

Hi All,
Running rooted Hero with Modaco 2.5.1 rom ( thanks Paul )
Was hoping someone could ( simplistically ) answer a few question for me.
As I understand it - one of the things holding back development of Hero ROMS is that HTC haven't released the kernel for the Hero.
1) What exactly IS the kernel in the greater scheme of things?
2) When are HTC likely to release it?
3) When it is released, what new things will it allow developers to do?
4) Anything else relevant to it worth knowing?
TIA

Look at these:
1. The kernel is the Operating System for the phone, it runs everything.
2. That is the magic question...
3. It'll allow more development in terms of mods. we'll be able to change alot more and get more out of the phones.
I'm sure others will have more detailed explanations.

Regarding question 2:
I've gotten response from HTC support the other day that the release is planned but no sure date could be given.
Date: 5th of October
My question:
Hello there, I realize that this might not be the normal kind of request you guys get, but here goes. This is probably not your average request and might require escalation. I was wondering when the source code for the Hero kernel was gonna be available at developer.htc.com?
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Answer:
Hello
This is quite a normal question we get here at HTC. The source code is something that will becoming soon. We have had contact with those far higher than my self or are planning on adding the source code as soon as possible. I have not been given a time scale but bases on the code for the two other handsets i should expect it in the next couple of weeks.
Hope this helps.
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So, educated guess would be around the release of the Hero in the US.

Some if I have this right -
The kernel is the basic underlying OS of the phone, and a ROM sits on top of this end gives us the end user experience ( and Sense UI is within the ROM ).
Am I right in thinking the kernel is linux based?
And a big magic question - when the kernel is released, will people be able to modify it and get the bluetooth working properly?
Sorry if it's a bit basic - but interesting to me....

The Kernel is not the OS (As most people understand an OS to be) (OS meaning Operating System)
It's at the core of the OS but is not the OS. You can keep the same build of an OS but update the kernel and vica versa. It is (put simply) what converts the hardware calls from the OS into something the hardware understands.
So (using current issues as explanation) The OS tries to load the GPS and the kernel isn't configured with the right settings the GPS won't load. Similarly if you try and use the trackball and it's not setup in the kernel then it won't do anything.
The OS will still work fine with other things but until the kernel has the right settings put into it it just won't see the parts of the phone it's not set up to.
Here is a technical description of a Kernel.
http://www.linfo.org/kernel.html
I'm sure I've just made it as clear as dishwater but if not I hope it's helped.

J-Zeus said:
Some if I have this right -
The kernel is the basic underlying OS of the phone, and a ROM sits on top of this end gives us the end user experience ( and Sense UI is within the ROM ).
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Click to collapse
Not exactly. To add to what akirainblack has said already...ROM stands for Read Only Memory. In this context it is a bit different as it is the complete package that makes up the Kernel, the OS and anything that is pre-installed to the phone. When you run the RUU (Rom Update Utilitiy) on your PC is completely refreshes the system software in your phone - Kernel, OS and any pre-installed apps - just as if you had bought it from the shop like that.
J-Zeus said:
Am I right in thinking the kernel is linux based?
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Yes.

Hmmm...
simple question... when the kernel is available... would we be able to get a white taskbar on the Hero?
//Nik

When the kernel source is available, we should be able to rebuild Android completely from the source code repositories and do practically whatever you want.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
When the kernel source is available, we should be able to rebuild Android completely from the source code repositories and do practically whatever you want.
Regards,
Dave
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Including getting Bluetooth working?

J-Zeus said:
Including getting Bluetooth working?
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Click to collapse
In theory, yes. In practice, the situation is a little more complicated, but at the very least I'd imagine it would be possible to get BlueX, or something like it, working on rooted Heros fairly quickly.
Regards,
Dave

Given that this is a Linux kernel, aren't HTC required by the GPL to make the source available to all Hero owners?

This is covering the same ground, but is another way to look at things regarding the kernel and the OS. The kernel abstracts the specifics of the hardware from the Android system. For example, when the Android system requests that the bluetooth hardware be enabled, the kernel can translate that request so that it works with the particular hardware of the phone - as the bluetooth hardware of the Magic may be different from the bluetooth hardware of the Hero. So the kernel, is an interface that translates and Android call to the specific hardware level controls necessary. The kernel sits between the hardware and the Android system.
It also means that releasing the kernel will not allow us to make changes to the Hero Android user interfaces. If we want to change colours, icons and so on in the Hero ROM, we would need the source code for their "tweaked" Android and maybe to some degree their TouchFlo software. I doubt they would give that away. It would allows us however, to tweak the kernel, or transplant the driver code for specific hardware pieces in the Hero, to a newer version kernel.

I understand that the release of the hero kernel, could help me with my cause (getting 1.5/1.6 'clean' android on my hero without any htc apps/front ends).
Somebody suggested contacting HTC and asking for it to be released.
I have a few questions regarding that:
1) Has this happened before? That HTC released an android kernel?
2) Did this happen after the request?
3) Who should we contact to get it? (which HTC division)
4) Is there a possibility that they don't want to release it, because it would allow people to copy parts of the proprietary interface?

E2K said:
1) Has this happened before? That HTC released an android kernel?
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Take a look at http://developer.htc.com/
The Dream and Magic sources are available.
E2K said:
4) Is there a possibility that they don't want to release it, because it would allow people to copy parts of the proprietary interface?
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The HTC Sense UI won't be included in the kernel source.
They dont have to release the source of them.
New question
Is it possible to create a new donut kernel (2.6.29) with the changes they made to the 1.5 kernel (2.6.27)?
Looks like they send you the hole kernel, not just some patches and new drivers...

mopodo said:
Take a look at http://developer.htc.com/
The Dream and Magic sources are available.
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Click to collapse
So this means that we could compile or 'cook' a working vanilla android 1.5 for the HTC hero, with everything working fully?

HTC HAS to release the kernel source as required under the GPL license that the kernel was released under. It is indeed a linux kernel and it contains the necessary parts to work the hardware along with extra drivers and modules (stupid monolithic kernels).
Here's what I don't get (and hopefully somebody will clarify this for me). Why hasn't anybody tried building android with the current kernel available? Android has the ability to be built around a pre-compiled kernel (it does this if you do a straight make right after repo sync with the pre-compiled dream kernel). You'd only need to re-build the wlan.ko module for the new kernel and the gps module would be compiled against the specified kernel, so it should work.
If I had Hero, I'd test it (if you want to trade your Hero for my G1, hit me up ), but there's no reason it shouldn't work.
Up to now, I've only seen ports, and those are hard to make work because of the pre-compiled files, so that leads to loads of file-swapping and finger-crossing, but an AOSP make should still work. Anybody wanna try it (or post me a hero kernel and I'll compile you a stock donut build to test).

jubeh said:
HTC HAS to release the kernel source as required under the GPL license that the kernel was released under. It is indeed a linux kernel and it contains the necessary parts to work the hardware along with extra drivers and modules (stupid monolithic kernels).
Here's what I don't get (and hopefully somebody will clarify this for me). Why hasn't anybody tried building android with the current kernel available? Android has the ability to be built around a pre-compiled kernel (it does this if you do a straight make right after repo sync with the pre-compiled dream kernel). You'd only need to re-build the wlan.ko module for the new kernel and the gps module would be compiled against the specified kernel, so it should work.
If I had Hero, I'd test it (if you want to trade your Hero for my G1, hit me up ), but there's no reason it shouldn't work.
Up to now, I've only seen ports, and those are hard to make work because of the pre-compiled files, so that leads to loads of file-swapping and finger-crossing, but an AOSP make should still work. Anybody wanna try it (or post me a hero kernel and I'll compile you a stock donut build to test).
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Hi, thank you for this information. You make it sound like it's possible
I tried searching for the Hero Kernel, but I could only find this:
http://developer.htc.com/
The hero is not listed (maybe it shares a lot with the magic kernel?).
edit: this post dating from september 10 stated that HTC would "release the kernel source soon".
This was more than a month ago though..
edit2: calling HTC Netherlands right now..
edit3: after explainig the need for the kernel, I've been on hold for 10 minutes now..
edit4: more than 18 minutes now
edit5: after 26 minutes I hang up

Well I have a Hero running Modaco 2.2. I could post this kernel (where?) Or it surely could be extracted from one of the ROMs available on this very site

SquiffSquiff said:
Well I have a Hero running Modaco 2.2. I could post this kernel (where?) Or it surely could be extracted from one of the ROMs available on this very site
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I could be wrong, but I believe there is a difference between the 'kernel', and the 'kernel source'. The second one is needed when you want to compile the kernel.

Speaking as one who has compiled kernels in the past there are three components required here:
The kernel source- this is typically available from http://kernel.org/ If HTC have made any changes to the source of the kernel itself then these should be apparent in their distribution of the kernel source
The relevant configuration file '.config' which should accompany their distribution of the kernel source and permit you to compile any other kernel as a drop in replacement.
Source code and makefiles for any custom kernel modules ('drivers' in windows terminology) In Linux these have to be compiled together with the kernel.
To use a cookery analogy:
The kernel source is the raw ingredients. It can be set up for anything from a supercomputer to a DVD player depending on how you use it. The kernel config is the method which will allow you to bake the type of cake you intend. The modules sources are any of HTC’s own custom ingredients required for everything to work. THe kernel is the finished cake which you eat.

Future (kernel/userspace dev questions, no FUD plz)

UPDATE: All sources are available from Samsung now!!! Even the video drivers! And the bootloader indeed accepts unsigned images
Hi guys!
I heard lots of contradicting stuff on the future-proofness of SgS...
The most disturbed(sic) being "encrypted drivers"
Therefore I really-really would like to know:
Is the source for the video module available somewhere?
Are any of the (other) kernel modules closed source?
Are any of the (for full hardware functionality) essential userspace components closed source?
Are any of (1) (2) (3) encrypted/protected against reverse engineering?
Does the bootloader accept unsigned kernels? (As far as I could google, it does, but you never know...)
Thank you very much! It is really hard to find definite info on these subjects.
UPDATE: All sources are available from Samsung now!!! Even the video drivers! And the bootloader indeed accepts unsigned images

I researched myself, and...
1. Is the source for the video module available somewhere?
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There are 3 separate kernel modules (base, lcd, 3d) for video. NEITHER of these are open source. AFAIC google, no open source alternatives exists.

2. Are any of the (other) kernel modules closed source?
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AFAIK the rest of the kernel, and its modules are open source.

I would love to know this too.

The best I could find is some (older) Nokia PowerVR SGX drivers, but - since only the architecture is licensed from ImgTec, and not the hardware - these are not likely to work without any heavy tweaking... even in 2D.

Phones with only open drivers

So I'm back to Android after a few years, and I read that the stock ROM is now the most stable choice on most phones due to closed source proprietary drivers being used.
This sucks. Stock sucks. Are there any phones that are all open source drivers, so one can flash ROMs without immediately sacrificing stability no matter how well the ROM is designed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_mobile_phones ?

Alexandre-P said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_mobile_phones ?
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Thanks I didn't see you had responded. It says in that article that android devices aren't included because of heavy use of proprietary drivers and applications so I'm guessing that an android phone shipping with open source drivers doesn't actually exist?

An Android phone that can only rely on open-source drivers? not that I know of. From what I've quickly read, the main obstacles to a full open-source Android phone are the radio and the graphic drivers, which are not opensorced and only available as binary blobs.

Alexandre-P said:
An Android phone that can only rely on open-source drivers? not that I know of. From what I've quickly read, the main obstacles to a full open-source Android phone are the radio and the graphic drivers, which are not opensorced and only available as binary blobs.
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Yeah that's all I've seen too, was hoping there was a manufacturer making one somewhere that I hadn't found

Resurrection Remix and Oreo

Ive been enjoying Resurrection Remix [Unofficial] rom and was wondering if they or any other rom for the Xperia Z5 P will support Oreo?

There is no kernel so unfortunately no

tset351 said:
There is no kernel so unfortunately no
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???

zacharias.maladroit said:
???
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Well there are no kernel sources nor binaries, blobs etc. so I guess there will no custom rom be available anytime soon but please correct me if I'm wrong. I would be glad to have Oreo on my Z5P.

tset351 said:
Well there are no kernel sources nor binaries, blobs etc. so I guess there will no custom rom be available anytime soon but please correct me if I'm wrong. I would be glad to have Oreo on my Z5P.
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The developer seems to be busy so allow me to answer (though I'm not that experienced). I'm pretty sure that Sony always releases it's phone's kernel sources. Phone hardware doesn't change from an update so when the sources are released they can be used to create a kernel for any android version (basically developers need access to unique hardware). Blobs are like closed-source kernel modules. They're provided with the kernel source but the manufacturer doesn't want them to be copyrighted or tampered with. So I'm sure that Oreo will be available on your device, just give the developers some time. And please don't answer questions if you don't know what you're talking about (at least write that you're inexperienced).

Nik0laTesla said:
The developer seems to be busy so allow me to answer (though I'm not that experienced). I'm pretty sure that Sony always releases it's phone's kernel sources. Phone hardware doesn't change from an update so when the sources are released they can be used to create a kernel for any android version (basically developers need access to unique hardware). Blobs are like closed-source kernel modules. They're provided with the kernel source but the manufacturer doesn't want them to be copyrighted or tampered with. So I'm sure that Oreo will be available on your device, just give the developers some time. And please don't answer questions if you don't know what you're talking about (at least write that you're inexperienced).
Click to expand...
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I am a very inexperienced person.
For MSM8994 platform there is only 3.10 kernel sources available, at least on sony's developer page. On open devices resource list, there are binaries for Z5 premium for 5.1, 6.0, 6.0.1, 7.0 and 7.1 but unfortunately no 8.0 or 8.1. And well, developers can take their time - as long as they want because I don't use that cell phone anymore and I won't expect any custom Rom changes anytime soon especially for a 2015 Device which had very less development going on since its launch.
But once again, I am very inexperienced.

Nik0laTesla said:
The developer seems to be busy so allow me to answer (though I'm not that experienced). I'm pretty sure that Sony always releases it's phone's kernel sources. Phone hardware doesn't change from an update so when the sources are released they can be used to create a kernel for any android version (basically developers need access to unique hardware). Blobs are like closed-source kernel modules. They're provided with the kernel source but the manufacturer doesn't want them to be copyrighted or tampered with. So I'm sure that Oreo will be available on your device, just give the developers some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, sorry I got a bit mixed up in the devices :laugh:. Either way Snapdragon provides up to date documentation on their SOC's (which is the most important hardware component on the device) so developers should still be able to provide Oreo. And you are right the Z5 premium is an old device and support usually drops as soon as the developer gets rid of that device. But it's weird how much attention different devices get. For example I have a Oneplus X (SD801, I know it's ancient) (didn't even get Nougat) and there are multiple Oreo 8.1 ROMs available.

Any custom kernels in the works?

Hey, is anyone working on porting custom kernels that will allow the use of google camera at full 23 MP, well 20.5MP?

davidhozic said:
Hey, is anyone working on porting custom kernels that will allow the use of google camera at full 23 MP, well 20.5MP?
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Not yet as far as we know

I have a xa2 ultra and I'm looking forward to building a unified custom kernel for the xa2(ultra), but there are no kernel sources yet for the latest 10.51 release. I've already asked jerpelea for them and he told me that they will come soon.

dani020110 said:
I have a xa2 ultra and I'm looking forward to building a unified custom kernel for the xa2(ultra), but there are no kernel sources yet for the latest 10.51 release. I've already asked jerpelea for them and he told me that they will come soon.
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Any updates?

davidhozic said:
Any updates?
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Nope, no kernel sources yet
If you want to know if the kernel sources are released straight from the Sony webpages, check here, in both look for the ones starting in 50 (that's the number for nile)
This one first, it's more important
https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/downloads/open-source-archives/
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/kernel-copyleft/branches
There are already some kernel sources for nile, but they are older ones, you should check for the newer ones that match our latest firmware releases

dani020110 said:
Nope, no kernel sources yet
If you want to know if the kernel sources are released straight from the Sony webpages, check here, in both look for the ones starting in 50 (that's the number for nile)
This one first, it's more important
https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/downloads/open-source-archives/
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/kernel-copyleft/branches
There are already some kernel sources for nile, but they are older ones, you should check for the newer ones that match our latest firmware releases
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you need the latest sources to updste the kernel when you make it for example? Like does it become incompatible?

davidhozic said:
Hey, is anyone working on porting custom kernels that will allow the use of google camera at full 23 MP, well 20.5MP?
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Click to collapse
23MP works with HedgeCam 2 on LineageOS.

davidhozic said:
Do you need the latest sources to updste the kernel when you make it for example? Like does it become incompatible?
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Well, while it might even boot, it's definitely better to use the latest one, because incompatibility issues might arise and it wouldn't pretty much make sense to run different versions
Finally, it will make it harder to update or add the security patches due to its age, when a kernel from a newer release likely have them.

schmatzler said:
23MP works with HedgeCam 2 on LineageOS.
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Yeah i know but i'm like looking for sth that could utilize google's hdr cam without 95% of quality loss like on AOSP

dani020110 said:
Nope, no kernel sources yet
If you want to know if the kernel sources are released straight from the Sony webpages, check here, in both look for the ones starting in 50 (that's the number for nile)
This one first, it's more important
https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/downloads/open-source-archives/
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/kernel-copyleft/branches
There are already some kernel sources for nile, but they are older ones, you should check for the newer ones that match our latest firmware releases
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey would this work? It's for xa2 plus but it is new i guess.
https://developer.sony.com/file/download/open-source-archive-for-50-1-a-11-40/

davidhozic said:
Hey would this work? It's for xa2 plus but it is new i guess.
https://developer.sony.com/file/download/open-source-archive-for-50-1-a-11-40/
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Click to collapse
This one may work
I'll take a look at it