Hi guys ,
It's possible to make this custom rom for Doogee X5 Max Pro?
Spec: 1.3ghz 64bit mt6763
2GB RAM
8mp rear camera
5mp front
4000mha
fingerprint
Miravision
Other specs : http://www.devicespecifications.com/en/model/66853cab
Any developer , can try to make custom for this?
Trimis de pe al meu X5max_PRO folosind Tapatalk
Please read the rules. Do not ask for support for your specific devices - it is pointless, and not the way it works. A dev won't support a device they don't own.
If a dev buys the phone, and decides to create a build they will post it. You should first look at the forum for your phone to see if it exists.
Thanks and sorry for bad post!
Trimis de pe al meu X5max_PRO folosind Tapatalk
adbuser said:
Thanks and sorry for bad post!
Trimis de pe al meu X5max_PRO folosind Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to Needrom(dot)com if you're looking for Roms just search your device, so far it has Cyanogen Mod 13, and TWRP for Doogee X5 Max Pro
Hello guys, i just found a nice offer for this phone in my country, brand new 360$ from shop, is it worth the price at this time?
Should i get it or not?
Garkan said:
Hello guys, i just found a nice offer for this phone in my country, brand new 360$ from shop, is it worth the price at this time?
Should i get it or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better off going for mix 2s as it won't cost much more
Its 300$ more, how its not much more??)
And on aliexpres its 200$ more with 0 warranty and 1 month shipping time.
I am asking the question just strictly for the phone/price.
Garkan said:
Its 300$ more, how its not much more??)
And on aliexpres its 200$ more with 0 warranty and 1 month shipping time.
I am asking the question just strictly for the phone/price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://s.aliexpress.com/zUj2E3q6 $346
Garkan said:
Its 300$ more, how its not much more??)
And on aliexpres its 200$ more with 0 warranty and 1 month shipping time.
I am asking the question just strictly for the phone/price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
eBay has it cheap for about $500, for the extra 150 its better value.
Mix 2 Is still decent for the price offered.
The guy was talking about the mi mix 2s, not simple.
1. Its 346$ on aliexpres with 0 warranty in Romania.
2. EU has tva+other taxes for this orders, aprox 25%. So it will be for me +90$ =440$.
Add 25% at those 500, or add some other dhl taxes.
The Mi Mix 2 is worth $360. I paid $430 a month ago for mine and think it's easily worth that. The MI Mix 2S wasn't an option for me though because I live in the United States. The only MI Mix 2S that is fully compatible with US carriers is the version with 256GB of storage which costs $700-$800. The Mix 2 was a way better value for me. Since the Mix 2S has the same display and battery as the Mix 2 and only a marginally faster processor paying all that money for a better camera is too much. It would be cool to have so much storage but not something I need. The MI Mix 3 will likely be a better upgrade from the MI Mix 2 because it will presumably have a full AMOLED display.
Finaly a on question answer. Thats what i was thinking, at 360 with warranty and no other costs, its a good deal.
I dont want/have 200$+ more for mi mix 2s.
In Romania you pay at customs 19% vat + 5 customs fee.
So at a 500 mi mix 2s i will have to pay like 100-150$ more when i pick it up + no warranty.
jhs39 said:
The Mi Mix 2 is worth $360. I paid $430 a month ago for mine and think it's easily worth that. The MI Mix 2S wasn't an option for me though because I live in the United States. The only MI Mix 2S that is fully compatible with US carriers is the version with 256GB of storage which costs $700-$800. The Mix 2 was a way better value for me. Since the Mix 2S has the same display and battery as the Mix 2 and only a marginally faster processor paying all that money for a better camera is too much. It would be cool to have so much storage but not something I need. The MI Mix 3 will likely be a better upgrade from the MI Mix 2 because it will presumably have a full AMOLED display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the camera front/back and SOT?
Garkan said:
Finaly a on question answer. Thats what i was thinking, at 360 with warranty and no other costs, its a good deal.
I dont want/have 200$+ more for mi mix 2s.
In Romania you pay at customs 19% vat + 5 customs fee.
So at a 500 mi mix 2s i will have to pay like 100-150$ more when i pick it up + no warranty.
How is the camera front/back and SOT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cameras are ok, its a cheap phone so don't expect amazing results.
SOT is OK, would expect anywhere between 4-8 hours. Might not even get that depending on your usage.
Garkan said:
Finaly a on question answer. Thats what i was thinking, at 360 with warranty and no other costs, its a good deal.
I dont want/have 200$+ more for mi mix 2s.
In Romania you pay at customs 19% vat + 5 customs fee.
So at a 500 mi mix 2s i will have to pay like 100-150$ more when i pick it up + no warranty.
How is the camera front/back and SOT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The camera is noticably better in the Global Developer ROM than in the Global Stable ROM--probably because it includes an early version of the AI feature that will turn up in MIUI 10. I wouldn't buy this phone if you need a great camera but it is pretty good in the current Global Developer ROM.
jhs39 said:
The camera is noticably better in the Global Developer ROM than in the Global Stable ROM--probably because it includes an early version of the AI feature that will turn up in MIUI 10. I wouldn't buy this phone if you need a great camera but it is pretty good in the current Global Developer ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I need a decent camera, not a great one. I have at this moment U ultra and it has a great camera for my needs.
And the battery? how much SOT and time between charges?
Garkan said:
Finaly a on question answer. Thats what i was thinking, at 360 with warranty and no other costs, its a good deal.
I dont want/have 200$+ more for mi mix 2s.
In Romania you pay at customs 19% vat + 5 customs fee.
So at a 500 mi mix 2s i will have to pay like 100-150$ more when i pick it up + no warranty.
How is the camera front/back and SOT?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stai liniștit în legătură cu taxele de import. Daca cumperi de pe AliExpress, ei automat vor trece pe pachet că valoarea e doar de 30-40 dolari. Ceea ce însemna că o să plătești taxe mici.
You don't have to worry about customs charges. If you buy from AliExpress sellers, they will declare a much lower value for the phone like 30-40$, which means you'll pay very little in taxes.
XDRdaniel said:
Stai liniștit în legătură cu taxele de import. Daca cumperi de pe AliExpress, ei automat vor trece pe pachet că valoarea e doar de 30-40 dolari. Ceea ce însemna că o să plătești taxe mici.
You don't have to worry about customs charges. If you buy from AliExpress sellers, they will declare a much lower value for the phone like 30-40$, which means you'll pay very little in taxes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nu mai merge asa, ultimele 3 pachete le am ridicat de la posta vamala si le a deschis in fata mea si m a pus sa ii arat factura/site ul de unde l am cumparat si extras de cont. Daca deschide si vede un telefon frumusel si pe pachet 30-40, dau in altele.
Garkan said:
Nu mai merge asa, ultimele 3 pachete le am ridicat de la posta vamala si le a deschis in fata mea si m a pus sa ii arat factura/site ul de unde l am cumparat si extras de cont. Daca deschide si vede un telefon frumusel si pe pachet 30-40, dau in altele.
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Ce golani.... Eu l-am comandat din Anglia.. am dat 12 lire dintre care doar 4 lire au fost taxele de import, iar 8 lire taxa serviciului poștal. Dar nu am mai auzit de așa ceva.... România ))....
XDRdaniel said:
Ce golani.... Eu l-am comandat din Anglia.. am dat 12 lire dintre care doar 4 lire au fost taxele de import, iar 8 lire taxa serviciului poștal. Dar nu am mai auzit de așa ceva.... România ))....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pai din U.E. nu se plateste tva, d-aia ai platit asa putin. Ai platit doar taxa de importa si serviciul postal. Tva care e cea mai mare dintre ele, 19%, ai scapat )
Daca comandai din China, America era alta treaba.
ce parere ai despre telefon?
Garkan said:
Pai din U.E. nu se plateste tva, d-aia ai platit asa putin. Ai platit doar taxa de importa si serviciul postal. Tva care e cea mai mare dintre ele, 19%, ai scapat )
Daca comandai din China, America era alta treaba.
ce parere ai despre telefon?
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Click to collapse
M-am exprimat greșit... Eu locuiesc in Anglia dar am dat comanda de telefon de pe AliExpress și a fost livrat din Singapore, deci nu a fost spațiu UE. Aici e 20% tva.
Sunt impresionat de telefon, design-ul e super premium, mereu mi-a plăcut interfața miui. Bateria e surprinzător de longevivă, am cam 6 ore SOT. Vin de la oneplus 3 și consider că e un upgrade semnificativ. Un singur lucru, care probabil e tine doar de gusturi. Mi-ar fi plăcut daca era ecranul amoled, atât. Cititorul de amprente e bine amplasat și foarte rapid. Eu am dat pe telefon 269£ plus taxe de 12£ și îl am de 2 săptămâni
XDRdaniel said:
M-am exprimat greșit... Eu locuiesc in Anglia dar am dat comanda de telefon de pe AliExpress și a fost livrat din Singapore, deci nu a fost spațiu UE. Aici e 20% tva.
Sunt impresionat de telefon, design-ul e super premium, mereu mi-a plăcut interfața miui. Bateria e surprinzător de longevivă, am cam 6 ore SOT. Vin de la oneplus 3 și consider că e un upgrade semnificativ. Un singur lucru, care probabil e tine doar de gusturi. Mi-ar fi plăcut daca era ecranul amoled, atât. Cititorul de amprente e bine amplasat și foarte rapid. Eu am dat pe telefon 269£ plus taxe de 12£ și îl am de 2 săptămâni
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aa, am inteles, da, probabil ca pe aia din Anglia nu ii intereseaza, dar cei de la noi se preocupa ))
Da, cam atat e si pe aliexpres.
Merci pentru opinie
Cum e camera?ecranul nu ma intereseaza atat de mult, mai bine IPS fara burn in decat Amoled cu burn in si service,etc
Garkan said:
Aa, am inteles, da, probabil ca pe aia din Anglia nu ii intereseaza, dar cei de la noi se preocupa ))
Da, cam atat e si pe aliexpres.
Merci pentru opinie
Cum e camera?ecranul nu ma intereseaza atat de mult, mai bine IPS fara burn in decat Amoled cu burn in si service,etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Camera e bunicică, e cea mai buna pe care am avut-o ) comparând cu oneplus 3. Camera frontala e amplasata jos, si arăți cam ciudat într-un apel video, dar poți întoarce telefonul invers. Recepția e foarte buna. Bluetooth 5.0 are raza mare, wireless-ul la fel. Deocamdată astept să primesc aprobare pentru a debloca bootloader pentru a instala magisk și mai apoi miui 10 care o să apară săptămâna asta cel mai probabil.
XDRdaniel said:
Camera e bunicică, e cea mai buna pe care am avut-o ) comparând cu oneplus 3. Camera frontala e amplasata jos, si arăți cam ciudat într-un apel video, dar poți întoarce telefonul invers. Recepția e foarte buna. Bluetooth 5.0 are raza mare, wireless-ul la fel. Deocamdată astept să primesc aprobare pentru a debloca bootloader pentru a instala magisk și mai apoi miui 10 care o să apară săptămâna asta cel mai probabil.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Din pacate eu l am prins desigilat la PcGarage cu 1400lei si deci nu pot face interventii software pentru ca o sa pierd garantia
D-aia am si deschis thread ul asta, sa vad daca merita sa dau banii astia pe el.
Da, camera frontala e cam ciudata, dar cred ca te obisnuiesti repde si atat timp cat nu esti selfie addict, nu cred ca vor fi probleme.
Garkan said:
Din pacate eu l am prins desigilat la PcGarage cu 1400lei si deci nu pot face interventii software pentru ca o sa pierd garantia
D-aia am si deschis thread ul asta, sa vad daca merita sa dau banii astia pe el.
Da, camera frontala e cam ciudata, dar cred ca te obisnuiesti repde si atat timp cat nu esti selfie addict, nu cred ca vor fi probleme.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Poți face intervenții daca vrei. Nu are Knox precum Samsung, și daca instalezi softul original din fastboot, nu o să știe nimeni că te-ai jucat cu el... In plus ) ce e și cu garanția asta? Sunt tot felul de tutoriale acum cum să îl flash-uiesti singur in caz de se întâmplă ceva..
Good morning faithful and unfaithful
I have been thinking about it for 4 hours and I don't know what to do but it corrodes my desire to tell my faithful and infidels.
It is not clean because with the two apks that I have worked to investigate and polish are not mine, the phone with which I worked for it is the barbarian note 10 plus.
I have discovered after 20 days working many hours of full dedication as how to do what no one in the world has achieved and it is neither more nor less what notifications are maintained until you Unfaithful unlock the screen and look at the notifications.
And if this seems little to you, I have also managed to see only the notification around the selfie camera without having the annoying ODA on the screen off.
The problem is very fat because I do not know how to manage all this, apart from that regardless of the achievements someone has to polish it so that it is automatic because when I turn off the phone when I restart it I have to show the phone how to do it, come on I have
You have to do it manually and it works until you turn off the phone again.
Speaking clearly, it is unconfigured and not saved.
I hope someone advises me, you must forgive me but I share it for now.
Why very legal is not if I use apks not developed by me.
I see this case as the medicine that through some medicine of its derivatives, properties or formulas have been able to use them or have discovered other uses, I don't know if I explain myself.
Or another example with the same platform that Peugeot citroen and Ford use to make their cars.
Well, I'm going to sleep, it's not hours.
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
tha fuq? someone get this infidel a translator. "Hey Google Translate this gibberish"
Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk
mentathf said:
tha fuq? someone get this infidel a translator. "Hey Google Translate this gibberish"
Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
Is this a question?....a statement?....a psychological experiment?....
The Confusing Manifesto
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
No idea what any of this means. [emoji23]
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Unus, Annus
Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk
mentathf said:
tha fuq? someone get this infidel a translator. "Hey Google Translate this gibberish"
Sent from my SM-N9600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good morning faithful and unfaithful
The barbarian uses a web translator, sorry but it translates well.
What do you not understand in the translation Unfaithful ???
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
patrick_1 said:
Is this a question?....a statement?....a psychological experiment?....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good morning faithful and unfaithful
Unfaithful
Pakonan at your feet
Is this a question? .... a statement? .... a psychological experiment ?.
It is not a question, it is a mission accomplished statement.
It can be an experiment but the result has been fantastic.
I had been since I bought the mobile not happy with the notifications.
And Pakonan has opened the light to his Barbarian note 10 plus.
And now he is happy with the notifications around the selfie camera with the screen turned off without the ODA illuminated and without the notifications being turned off until the barbarian sees them.
That for a sociologist is an abysmal achievement and for an infidel like me happiness.
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
what tha pak
shaunydub said:
No idea what any of this means. [emoji23]
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfaithful
Pakonan at your feet
I hope you now understand what result I give in my last intervention.
The achievement is not easy seeing that no expert has made this result for my perfect.
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
Send me a message and I will translate for you.
Enviarme un mensaje y yo te traduzco
fkofilee said:
Send me a message and I will translate for you.
Enviarme un mensaje y yo te traduzco
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buenas madrugadas fieles e infieles
Llevo como 4h dándole vueltas a la cabeza y no se que hacer pero me corroe las ganas de contarlo a mis fieles e infieles.
No es limpio porque con las dos apks que he trabajado para investigar y pulirlo no son mías, el tfl con el cual he trabajado para ello es el bárbaro note 10 plus.
He descubierto después de 20 días trabajando muchas horas de dedicacion plena como poder como hacer lo que nadie en el mundo ha logrado y es ni más ni menos lo de las notificaciones se mantengan hasta que tú Infiel desbloquees la pantalla y mires las notificaciones. Y si esto os parece poco, también he conseguido que solo se vea la notificación alrededor de la cámara del selfie sin que tengamos el molestoso AOD en la pantalla apagada.
El problema es muy gordo por que no se como administrar todo esto, a parte de que independiente de los logros tiene pulirlo alguien para que sea automático por que cuando apago el móvil al reiniciarlo tengo que volver a enseñarle al teléfono como hacerlo, vamos que tengo que hacerlo manual y ya funciona hasta que vuelva a apagar el móvil.
Espero que alguien me asesore, me deberéis de perdonar sino lo comparto de momento.
Por qué muy legal no es si utilizo apk no desarrolladas por mi.
Este caso lo veo como la medicina que a través de algún medicamento de sus derivados, propiedades o fórmulas las han podido utilizar o han descubierto otros usos, no se si me explico. O otro ejemplo con la misma plataforma que usan Peugeot citroen y Ford para hacer sus coches.
Bueno me voy a dormir que no son horas.
Salu2 de vuestro más fiel Infiel Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
What problem are you facing exactly because I understand that you have issues with notifications / issue with something that should be exclusive?
Que problemas exactamente sufres? Yo entiendo que tienes problemas con notificaciones en el movil / que algo deberia de esta exclusiva?
fkofilee said:
What problem are you facing exactly because I understand that you have issues with notifications / issue with something that should be exclusive?
Que problemas exactamente sufres? Yo entiendo que tienes problemas con notificaciones en el movil / que algo deberia de esta exclusiva?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good afternoon faithful and unfaithful
Unfaithful I see that I do not know how to explain myself or someone does not understand what I am trying to communicate, simply that I have discovered that with the screen turned off if notifications arrive, the fixed warning remains not like other apks that will only say a few moments.
And without needing to be connected ODA.
Is an achievement.
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
PAKONAN666 said:
Buenas madrugadas fieles e infieles
Llevo como 4h dándole vueltas a la cabeza y no se que hacer pero me corroe las ganas de contarlo a mis fieles e infieles.
No es limpio porque con las dos apks que he trabajado para investigar y pulirlo no son m
---------- Post added at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 AM ----------
PAKONAN666 said:
Buenas madrugadas fieles e infieles
Llevo como 4h dándole vueltas a la cabeza y no se que hacer pero me corroe las ganas de contarlo a mis fieles e infieles.
No es limpio porque con las dos apks que he trabajado para investigar y pulirlo no son mías, el tfl con el cual he trabajado para ello es el bárbaro note 10 plus.
He descubierto después de 20 días trabajando muchas horas de dedicacion plena como poder como hacer lo que nadie en el mundo ha logrado y es ni más ni menos lo de las notificaciones se mantengan hasta que tú Infiel desbloquees la pantalla y mires las notificaciones. Y si esto os parece poco, también he conseguido que solo se vea la notificación alrededor de la cámara del selfie sin que tengamos el molestoso AOD en la pantalla apagada.
El problema es muy gordo por que no se como administrar todo esto, a parte de que independiente de los logros tiene pulirlo alguien para que sea automático por que cuando apago el móvil al reiniciarlo tengo que volver a enseñarle al teléfono como hacerlo, vamos que tengo que hacerlo manual y ya funciona hasta que vuelva a apagar el móvil.
Espero que alguien me asesore, me deberéis de perdonar sino lo comparto de momento.
Por qué muy legal no es si utilizo apk no desarrolladas por mi.
Este caso lo veo como la medicina que a través de algún medicamento de sus derivados, propiedades o fórmulas las han podido utilizar o han descubierto otros usos, no se si me explico. O otro ejemplo con la misma plataforma que usan Peugeot citroen y Ford para hacer sus coches.
Bueno me voy a dormir que no son horas.
Salu2 de vuestro más fiel Infiel Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll try my best to translate with context. The app didn't post my full translation in the comment before.
Begin translation
I've been thinking on something for about 4 hours know and I don't know how to handle it. But this is killing me so I'll share with you anyways.
It is no clean yet because the 2 apps I used to research and develop aren't mine. This is for the note 10 plus.
After working hard for over 20 hours with dedication I've been able to achieve what no one else in the world has. I've been able to make notifications stay active until you unlock the screen and either see them or dismiss and if this isn't enough I've been able to activate the light around the selfie camera without the annoying AOD being active.
The problem I'm having is that the two apps I used aren't mine and I can't share them and the method needs to be polished because in the current state you need to do this manually every time the phones boots. Once you do this it will stay active until the next reboot, a way to do it automatically needs to be found.
I really hope someone more knowledgeable can help me to develop because I don't want to breach any legal terms by using proprietary apps
END my translation. The he tries to give an example of how you can develop generic meds based off the original recipe.
Buena suerte bro / good luck bro!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do we have to be Faithful and Unfaithful. What the hell does this have to do with a damn phone? Faithful to who? God, Allah, budda, Samsung? ? I believe in one God, father of the almighty, maker of heaven and earth,... Android. ?
DesertEagleSlim said:
Why do we have to be Faithful and Unfaithful. What the hell does this have to do with a damn phone? Faithful to who? God, Allah, budda, Samsung? [emoji1787] I believe in one God, father of the almighty, maker of heaven and earth,... Android. [emoji1787]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good night faithful and unfaithful
Unfaithful
Pakonan at your feet hahaha
Thank you for your comment, don't burn in hell.
Pakonan is a character based on the movie of Conan the Barbarian, the rest I leave to your imagination.
I will make a video with the achievements to see if you see it interesting and give your opinion.
Keep in touch.
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
Good morning faithful and unfaithful
Here I put the video and tell me if your note does that or is an Unfaithful note hahaha.
https://youtu.be/JBA74tw8yfY
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
¿Update OP?
PAKONAN666 said:
Good morning faithful and unfaithful
Here I put the video and tell me if your note does that or is an Unfaithful note hahaha.
https://youtu.be/JBA74tw8yfY
Salu2 of your most faithful Unfaithful Pako
Enviado desde mi SM-N975F mediante Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dear Pakonan, maybe you should update the OP with your results (a link to the video or images demonstrating your results). Since those apps were not developed by you (or at least that's what I understood on your previous posts), you can not post links to those apps, however I do think you can mention which app you are using with the proper credits to the developers.
The ring around the camera does not seem new at all, however on this thread the charging thing may be of some interest.
Cheers from Mexico my friend
Hey guys, just wondering if the Google GCAM was available for the Fold 3?
The stock samsung camera lags alot and I would like to switch back to the GCAM if it is available. TIA.
Should be available soon if not you can try the Z Fold 2's GCam (if any) it should work as the hardware is nearly identical.
DaGalaxySheep said:
Debería estar disponible pronto, de lo contrario, puede probar el GCam del Z Fold 2 (si lo hay), debería funcionar ya que el hardware es casi idéntico.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Download Google Camera for Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 2 (GCam 8.2 APK) - NaldoTech
If you have a Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 2, you can now download and install the latest working port of Google Camera (GCam). The Google Camera (GCam 8.1) has been
www.naldotech.com
The logic indicates that it should be so, in practice, it seems that it is not.
In some reviews, the Z Fold 3 cameras are said to be those of the regular S21, but the GCam doesn't work either
The Bootloader, the Gcam and the blocking of cameras will have something to do with the Unlock of the device, otherwise this image freezing is not understood