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Hi Kyphur,
Happy easter all of you!
hope you have nice easter .
Will 0.3 will be released this weekend?
AdoMad
STOP This at once!
If you only READ before you post, stop posting questions repeatedly!
0.3 Will be ready when it's ready and thats it!
yea man just have some patience.
it will some come and we will have some fun ;-)
happy easter to you all.
Okay, this thread is going to go no-where but to some possible bashing.
Could it be closed?
He asked a question... He got his answer, I dont see any reason to argue or cause any grief on this matter whatsoever.
STOP it at once !
I suggest to close this and to ban the noobs who ask this dummies questions !
This Forum
I've been a long time visitor and active member of many forums. However, I only recently have had the fortune of discovering this wonderful forum where unbelievable things are being done. This forum is beneficial to me via my Cingular 8525 and I greatly appreciate the plethora of knowledge contained within this forum and those that help by graciously making this knowledge available to others.
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
In my opinion, everyone here would benefit from a dramatic shift in the level of tolerance of this behavior. Furthermore, the moderators should reevaluate their policies and consider changing their stance on this issue.
dallen said:
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
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I don't think the people here are elitists. I believe they are tired. Tired of the same questions being posted over and over. This thread would have been answered with the search function.
This is by far one of the best technical forums around. These forums were created to support development, not for the average phone hobbyists. Everything here should be considered "beta". Unfortunately people think everything is going to work 100% of the time. This will not be the case.
I think the moderators are doing a pretty good job. I do believe that more posts should get removed before the flame job starts.
Long story short....XDA is a great resource...give it a chance. I believe you would have really liked XDA a couple of months ago before "Hofo migration" started aka the "8525 effect". I hope the forums will return to the concise and straight forward technical and developmental forums that they were a couple of months ago.
tco said:
I don't think the people here are elitists. I believe they are tired. Tired of the same questions being posted over and over. This thread would have been answered with the search function.
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tco,
Thanks for replying. I agree with everything that you said. The reason that I highlighted the above is because I take issue with a portion of what you say. If people are tired of answering "simple" questions that they feel could be answered with a simple seach, then why don't they show their diapproval by not answering and allow these types of questions to either go unanswered, where they will quickly fall to the bottom of the message board, or better yet, allow someone that doesn't mind answering these types of question to answer them?
I've sifted through 70 pages of posting after posting just to find the answers to some relatively simple questions that I've had (this in spite of utilizing the advanced searching features). I could have saved a bunch of my time if I weren't so afraid of being chastised for asking a question that has already been answered in some 80-page thread.
I think people should be free to ask questions without fear of being criticized. Maybe a special section of the forum ought to either be dedicated to these types of questions, or a section of the forum ought to be restricted to "senior members." Either way, I strongly feel that the ones that deserve to be harassed are not those with questions, but those that feel that they are too good to simply offer an answer and choose to belittle the asker.
dallen said:
tco,
Thanks for replying. I agree with everything that you said. The reason that I highlighted the above is because I take issue with a portion of what you say. If people are tired of answering "simple" questions that they feel could be answered with a simple seach, then why don't they show their diapproval by not answering and allow these types of questions to either go unanswered, where they will quickly fall to the bottom of the message board, or better yet, allow someone that doesn't mind answering these types of question to answer them?
I've sifted through 70 pages of posting after posting just to find the answers to some relatively simple questions that I've had (this in spite of utilizing the advanced searching features). I could have saved a bunch of my time if I weren't so afraid of being chastised for asking a question that has already been answered in some 80-page thread.
I think people should be free to ask questions without fear of being criticized. Maybe a special section of the forum ought to either be dedicated to these types of questions, or a section of the forum ought to be restricted to "senior members." Either way, I strongly feel that the ones that deserve to be harassed are not those with questions, but those that feel that they are too good to simply offer an answer and choose to belittle the asker.
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Keep in mind you sifted through 70 or 80 pages of posting because they were so many of the same questions being asked. The truth is I am also tired of going through 80 pages to stay of the up to date. In the past 24hrs things have improved compare to the past 4-8 weeks (less postings and more reading, testing and reporting).
dallen said:
I've been a long time visitor and active member of many forums. However, I only recently have had the fortune of discovering this wonderful forum where unbelievable things are being done. This forum is beneficial to me via my Cingular 8525 and I greatly appreciate the plethora of knowledge contained within this forum and those that help by graciously making this knowledge available to others.
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
In my opinion, everyone here would benefit from a dramatic shift in the level of tolerance of this behavior. Furthermore, the moderators should reevaluate their policies and consider changing their stance on this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their responses are in line and they behold the ability to react however they would like. How would you like it if you put xxx hours building and testing for 100 people to come in and ask the same question over and over, they don't appreciate it 1 bit. don't blame jas for saying **** it and not wanting to publicly release any more, yeah that means I won't see any of his roms, but I would have done the same with the reactions that were seen with 2.0. The site is called xda DEVELOPERS for a reason. this isn't the site for someone that knows **** about their phone but wants to "look cool to their friends" the sooner this is realized the sooner the forum can get back to a civilized manner.
CUSTEL said:
Their responses are in line and they behold the ability to react however they would like.
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Then that means that we are also free to "react however [we] like" to their reactions. I, for one, see these "reactions" as immature, unjustified, and despicable. From now on, I will exercise my "ability to react however like" by calling people out for acting childish.
CUSTEL said:
The site is called xda DEVELOPERS for a reason. this isn't the site for someone that knows **** about their phone but wants to "look cool to their friends" the sooner this is realized the sooner the forum can get back to a civilized manner.
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If this site were intended to be solely for "developers," then registrations would be limited only to that class of members.
dallen said:
Then that means that we are also free to "react however [we] like" to their reactions. I, for one, see these "reactions" as immature, unjustified, and despicable. From now on, I will exercise my "ability to react however like" by calling people out for acting childish.
If this site were intended to be solely for "developers," then registrations would be limited only to that class of members.
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That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read.
First thing... this thread is being locked because the original poster did NOT need to start a thread like this.. This is something he could have read in another thread or pm'd kyphur for...
2nd thing is how the thread was hijacked yet again by people complaining, whining, sharing there opinions on something that wasnt related to the topic... there is already a topic for this that is open to everyone... the mods are taking our stance and working on what we feel should be acceptable.. This sub-fora has done a complete 180 from what it was like earlier this week...
@dallen ... your choice to speak out on the matter here in this thread where it wasnt appropriate and doesnt make it any better than the ones before you.. like i mentioned above there is a thread for this, so before you quickly tell others they were out of line maybe you should look at yourself...
@custel yes this was designed to be a developers forum, however due to the growth of HTC popularity the site has transformed into more than that... just read whats on the homepage of xda-developers.com
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a secretive firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
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quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...
I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.
djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.
Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
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I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...
I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?
I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.
I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents
hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev
djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!
people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.
As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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that man said it better than i ever could.
l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
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i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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Click to collapse
djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.
It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
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Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.
All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe
"In a perfect world..."
github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.
C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
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Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.
It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
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Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
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cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
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What he said
Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
BretonGirl said:
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
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even though ive given you a thanks or this, i do believe its set correctly. This forum has soooooo many existing users plus the new ones joining everyday its very suprising how little advertising,spamming goes on here and i do think its contributed by the new user rules.
I myself have only ever been a mod for a 200+ forum and the amount of spam we had to delete each day was a joke, imagine how many links around the web lead to xda....the amount of spam this site would be suffering had they not placed these rules the xda maybe not what we all cherish today
edit "NOTE", lol just wait until you accidentally post in the wrong section
I understand your situation, considering that you have been a forum moderator in other forums
But when I was a new user i never got to enter any captcha or so !
I have no clue that Captcha was being used on XDA to be honest!
But one thing that can help you is that you can answer others's questions in the Q and A forum of the device(s) you own. Helps to get that 10 post thing done early, especially if you know enough to help someone else out
Anyways all the best and you can PM me if you need any more help or you may contact a senior admin
just my 2 (+1) cents p) and Peace!
I've never been a moderator for any forum and even I know the effect spammers can have if the proper procedures don't take place.
But you gotta know, it's only for a few posts...it's not like you'll be entering captcha codes in forever and never be able to share weblinks or screen shots.
Just ride it out, we all had to
Well, this is a touchy subject.
Being such a high traffic forum we really do need aggressive anti spam measures.
As for the restrictions on the development sections.... We'll that's also a touchy subject but for entirely different reasons.
Once upon a time XDA was populated solely by developers, developers who developed for no other reason than the love of developing. Then the smartphone became accessible to more and more people, which led to more and more members who weren't developers. This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development forums.....
That's about it really.. Check out the sticky in this section for a more detailed explanation
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I appreciate everyone's replies. I have no problem with the 10 posts before getting access to the developer's section. You certainly don't want anything but quality in a section like that.
I also understand the spam issue. One of my day jobs is as a staff writer for a blog hosted by a company that makes anti-spam software. I know more than I ever wanted to on the subject!
This is a great forum!
I agree
The forum is very anti-noob. I hate entering capta images that I can hardly read, can only post every 5 minutes, this really sucks. I hope when I hit 10 posts this crap goes away
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
i kind of like the idea of captcha on the first few post i may use it on my site. i have a xbox modding site and it generates a bit of spam from time to time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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Yep, and at the same time most new users don't understand the concept of searching the forums so their first 10 posts which are asking rather than helping would probably have already been asked previously. i.e. forum gets cluttered up, which is pretty much a form of spam.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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Yeah exactly! And making ten posts isn't that time consuming either at the same time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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This is true as well. But if they need help they should be posting in the Q&A sections of their device not the development section.
I think the rules are there for a reason and the MODs and Admin have thought a lot on this issue and its only for first 10 posts.
It's not too bad, it's worth it.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------
I think if people were able to sign in with their google accounts though there wouldn't be need for all this...
conantroutman said:
This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development
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And now they post Questions in the general forums =.=
Sent from my E15i using Tapatalk
We're always trying to make things better on the forums. This means we have to try stuff to see if it works. It's basically trial & error for the most part.
The spamming has decreased alot the past couple of months with the new captchas and 10 post rule. Still, we need to find a way to make it less difficult to join our forums and more difficult to post spam. Ideas are always welcome of course.
Annoying for non noobs
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
Slotty_AU said:
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
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Is it so much to ask that you read for a bit first, pick up some knowledge and experience, help a few people in the 90+% of the site which is completely open to you such as your devices General or Q&A forums or any of the General discussion forums, to participate with quality posts instead of BS posts, in return for being able to post into any of the ROM threads from any dev on this site?
I've had the immense privilege of watching this site grow since just a couple months after it introduced a few new phone models to the original O2 XDA. I actually get my soap opera fix and tech fix all in one! I'm hooked.
It's not just spam. I was a horrendous new user, posting in the wrong forum, responding to emotional posts enough to encourage them, I even chewed out a guy for blasting a noob. The problem is organic, and though spam has become part of that (probably the hugest part, now) it's that organic nature of this forum that makes it so great. Really tough problem to grow something cleanly without squelching it.
I was wondering if XDA could track a user's searches, or forums "read" for more than a minute, and after 30 or so, then stop the captchas. It seems like over the years it's folks who don't search & read (spammers or otherwise) that are the detraction. Maybe something like being in "reader" status as a step to becoming a new user & able to post at all.
1. I could have used it.
2. I'm putting this here, in the weird forum for this topic it's in, to see what people think. Wanting to have input as a developer is definitely a magnification of the problem. I'm glad it's here.
(ThinkPad Tablet:Tapatalk 2)
In the time that I've been here, and had several phones while here, I've noticed that moderators can sometimes use the same rules very differently. With some of my older phones (and so in those forums) I noticed that if someone 'tried to act like a moderator' they could be lobbied with an infraction pretty easily. With my current phone (and in that thread) that's not an issue - people frequently make directions based on the rules. Why is that? How can a rule be invented or ignored like that? That's two completely different reactions to the same situation.
Another issue that I've noticed is the level of tolerance in different forums for attacks on other people. In some forums, people would be shooting each other with attacking comments and dripping sarcasm all day, in the next, one slap and it's an infraction.
Some moderators I've found very easy to talk to and their approach is simple and clear. Others, can't seem to communicate without fury. You cannont reason with an angry person and I'm surprised that that can come from a moderator. Like many others I'm sure, I use many forums and this is the only one where I've seen moderators be allowed act this way.
I find that confusing and I'm also convinced that 'convenience' rules are created sometimes, and other times rules are flouted. Like a lot of people, I just want to come to talk about my phone, mod it etc. but the above makes it an unhappy trip on here sometimes. If it becomes a place where these issues are occuring, it feels to me like an 'anything goes' territory.
One other thing, is that I'm convinced that a thanks meter (which we know is also used as an 'I like you or your comment' meter is currency. Do we each have to notch up 1,000 posts and 300 thanks to become equal?
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
SharpnShiny said:
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
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Having received an infraction and a ban in the past, the irony being that I received the second for discussing by P.M that the first was given incorrectly by a moderator who didn't seem to know what an "affiliate" link was, so I do have a few frustrations with how some things are dealt with around here :silly:, but no matter how good your intentions are, how good an idea is or how in the long run something might improve the site, nothings going to change around here, and expect this thread to be locked as criticism even if constructive of how things are done around here doesn't usually go down well with TPTB. :angel:
SharpnShiny said:
In the time that I've been here, and had several phones while here, I've noticed that moderators can sometimes use the same rules very differently. With some of my older phones (and so in those forums) I noticed that if someone 'tried to act like a moderator' they could be lobbied with an infraction pretty easily.
<SNIP>
Anyone noticed similar? Any other frustrations?
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There's a big difference between trying to act like a moderator and aiding the moderators in what they do by referring people to the relevant links etc.
If someone is pushing their weight around, being all high and mighty and trying to enforce the rules as if they're more important - that is trying to act like a moderator.
However, directing people to the right place or making someone aware of the rules, without acting like the Big I Am - this is aiding the moderators and helping xda out.
Another thing that needs to be taken into account is that mods are only human and different mods will find some things acceptable whereas some others won't.
So if there are posts that you think should be actioned, simply report it and it will get the relevant mods attention. If you don't agree with a mods decision then you can politely PM them and ask why they made the decision they did and if you're still not happy with it, get in touch with a senior mod about it.
Where did the idea about posts and thanks come from? I don't agree with that at all, to be honest with you.
XperienceD said:
Having received an infraction and a ban in the past, the irony being that I received the second for discussing by P.M that the first was given incorrectly by a moderator who didn't seem to know what an "affiliate" link was, so I do have a few frustrations with how some things are dealt with around here :silly:, but no matter how good your intentions are, how good an idea is or how in the long run something might improve the site, nothings going to change around here, and expect this thread to be locked as criticism even if constructive of how things are done around here doesn't usually go down well with TPTB. :angel:
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If you think that we're not allowed to discuss the way the site is, then I can assure you that's not the case at all.
The fact is, there's a time and a place for everything.
If you're not happy with how the site is run, or how a moderator/admin acts around the site then creating a thread to bring these issues to the forefront isn't the way to do it.
If you contact the relevant mods etc via PM and want to discuss something relevant I'm sure they'll be more than happy to speak to you about it and sort out any problems you may have.
Nothing is perfect. The moderators can't be. But the comittee chooses them as they do appear close to 'perfect'. If at all you think any unfair decision has been taken upon you or any other member, you can always contact the moderator liasion admins or any one of the admins.
Sent from my GT-S5360 using xda premium
If you have concerns about a specific moderator or forum then I'd be happy to hear them. As would any member of the moderator committee. Feel free to drop us a pm if you wish.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I've posted a couple of threads on GENERAL news topics which were curiously moved to the section belonging to my current phone. I can't believe it. It's so biased it's unbelieveable. I calmly messaged the mod who moved it and got no response. I really have no respect for a system that has no respect for it's users. That will be the last news piece that I post, I'll add and contribute to mods and that's it.
Not all of us are 16 year olds still learning, some of us are adults that have education and experience and can tell the difference between the sections. The bias and lack of communication is poor reflection of the site.
conantroutman said:
If you have concerns about a specific moderator or forum then I'd be happy to hear them. As would any member of the moderator committee. Feel free to drop us a pm if you wish.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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Thank you very much, I didn't see this until today. I'm afraid that on a few issues I have tried this and got no where. I can guarantee I communicate in these messages calmly, reasonable - and open to being wrong. I just can't believe it goes no where.
SharpnShiny said:
Thank you very much, I didn't see this until today. I'm afraid that on a few issues I have tried this and got no where. I can guarantee I communicate in these messages calmly, reasonable - and open to being wrong. I just can't believe it goes no where.
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I can only apologise for that, I'd hope that any enquiry made would be met with a response. I must say though that it may well be a simple mistake as we can often get quite a lot of messages to respond to and it's easy to one miss one, I'm certainly guilty of that myself (more than once)
As I said though, if you have specific concerns please feel free to get in touch with either myself or any mod committee member and we'll try to make sure the issue is resolved.