Develop Bugs

Nexus 5X poor video stabilization. Something we have to live with? Can it be fixed?

Hello,
Im looking to upgrade my Nexus 5 and ive been going through lots and lots of reviews, videos, pictures of many of the new phones out right now. Z5, S6, Nexus 5X.
I really like the Nexus 5X despite some of it shortcomings but one thing i REALLY have a hard time accepting is how shaky the picture is when recording video compared to iphone 6s, Sony Z5 and others.
Here is a video showing it against the Moto X pure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_zth08zFLw
The Nexus 5x i horrible Is that something we will just have to accept because it lacks OIS or is it possible to fix software wise in a camera update or using a 3rd party camera app. I must say that in its current form its unusable.
Regards
Jacob

indeed it is shaky...
haven't tried it but this one has video stabilization - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sourceforge.opencamera

Maybe someone with a nexus 5x could try opencamera to record a video and post the result?

Yeah I was hoping 1080p would at least get decent software stability. It has enough pixels for it. ?
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S5.

Does anyone know? Anyone tried opencamera?

Just my $.02. It was my understanding from the Launch event that it doesn't have image stabilization. Something about how it didn't need it with the upgraded light gathering capability of the camera.

The Moto X pure doesn't have OIS either, it's done in software

I'll just splurge for a gimbal. LOL
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S5.

gomylle said:
Does anyone know? Anyone tried opencamera?
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Just tried it and it seems decent. Good thing is that OpenCamera properly implements the sensor orientation detection, so the preview and resulting files are correct. It has experimental support for Camera 2 API, which needs to be enabled in order to expose the EIS setting.
At high resolution (4k), there's significant lag that's recorded in the videos with the EIS enabled. Google did say the 808 couldn't handle it; maybe they weren't just blowing smoke?
At 1080p, it seems to help reduce the shakiness by a fair amount; it's no OIS replacement for sure, but I'd say better than not having anything.

Funny how google said larger pixels negated the need for OIS. Did anyone really believe them? Did HTC not try the super mega sized pixels before?

Evo_Shift said:
Funny how google said larger pixels negated the need for OIS. Did anyone really believe them? Did HTC not try the super mega sized pixels before?
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From pics I saw it does fine without OIS. But videos would have benefited. And yes they coined it as "ultra-pixels".
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S5.

Look at this. Amazing:
http://www.frequency.com/video/nexus-5x-stabilized-4k-footage-using/244831773?cid=5-9852

Hi
Evo_Shift said:
Funny how google said larger pixels negated the need for OIS. Did anyone really believe them? Did HTC not try the super mega sized pixels before?
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OIS is only really of benefit for photos at shutter speeds less than 1/60th second, unless you have a zoom lens, where it is helpful at higher shutter speeds, as the more you are zoomed, the more amplified any body shake is. For smartphones with their wide angle view, camera shake is not too much of a problem for most typical situations, and any daytime scene OIS is completely pointless as the shutter speed is plenty high enough to freeze out any camera shake. The larger pixels help as the ISO can be higher without too much noise meaning a faster shutter speed can be used.
For video the situation is different as images are taken over time, so it's the movement in camera position between each picture that needs to smoothed, although the fashion these days on most documentaries and TV shows is to deliberately shake the camera around until it's a nauseating mess with whip zooms into the mix Still it's a good indicator I find for knowing the program is trash and not worth watching :victory:
OIS in smart phones helps a little with video, but the tiny lens optics and limited movement means they don't do nearly as well as a dedicated camcorder with OIS, which gives some amazing results. The link to the stablised 5X video is using a $300 device, so if anyone is that serious about their smart phone video, then for that money we might as well take a much bigger step in image quality and convenience and features and get a dedicated camcorder.
The elephant in the room with the Nexus 6P is EIS, this is the poor mans image stabilizer, yes it does help stabilize the video to a certain degree, but to do this it has to crop the image. It appears to be doing this the cheap way in software (hence needing the powerful chip), taking a 1080P video, then zooming into so it can have a window of view to pan around in, this means the resulting video has less resolution, see the clips here https://youtu.be/HV4rcFuUlUc?t=246 and compare the detail between the two, there is a drop in resolution on the 6P. Better EIS systems capture a larger image at the sensor, then would track and pan a 1920x1080 window across it so no resolution drop, but that requires more low level work with the camera hardware and dedicated chips to do a good job.
Record a 1080P video with the 5X, upload to YouTube and get it to apply stabilization and it will do the same thing, may even turn out better than the 6P EIS as it doesn't need to be done in real time so a bit more care can be taken.
Will the 6P stabilize 4K video? I somehow doubt it has the power to do that, so for 4K it's an even playing field between the two.
Regards
Phil

PhilipL said:
Hi
Record a 1080P video with the 5X, upload to YouTube and get it to apply stabilization and it will do the same thing, may even turn out better than the 6P EIS as it doesn't need to be done in real time so a bit more care can be taken.
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Hmm, aren't those phones using the much higher resolution of the sensor (at least about 4k) to stabilize the video by changing the captured frame on the sensor corresponding to the phones movement? At least i thought that's the reasoning why this works only up to 1080p (which would be preserved, in that case).

I think this could be quite useful for the next Nexus http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/09/imint-wants-to-bring-real-time-video-stabilization-to-android/

what is the difference between eis 2.0 in pixel camera and old one in nexus 6p ?

i saw in google pixel specs that include EIS 2.0 " electronic image stabilizer " , and does not include OIS " optical image stabilizer " , so i have nexus 6p is it mean that i have old version of EIS ?
what is the version of EIS in nexus 6p and what is the deference between two and can recorde 4k with EIS ?
the answer will decide to buy pixel or not , because video recording important to me .
thank you in advance

ali8383 said:
i saw in google pixel specs that include EIS 2.0 " electronic image stabilizer " , and does not include OIS " optical image stabilizer " , so i have nexus 6p is it mean that i have old version of EIS ?
what is the version of EIS in nexus 6p and what is the deference between two and can recorde 4k with EIS ?
the answer will decide to buy pixel or not , because video recording important to me .
thank you in advance
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From what I've gathered the stabilization in the 6p is purely software based.
On the pixel however, Google has tied the camera to the gyroscope. The gyroscope polls 200 times a second to stabilize the image. So while it doesn't have Ois, it's not just software on the pixel.

scandalousk said:
From what I've gathered the stabilization in the 6p is purely software based.
On the pixel however, Google has tied the camera to the gyroscope. The gyroscope polls 200 times a second to stabilize the image. So while it doesn't have Ois, it's not just software on the pixel.
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tigercranestyle said:
^^^ what this guy said, though i thought i heard it polled the gyroscope 2000/second. looked around, but can't remember where i read/heard it. but yeah, @ali8383, 6p is strictly software based while pixel is sw/hw.
also the nexus 6p couldn't use eis to record 4k. the pixel can.
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Thank you for explaination

Could the 6P not poll its gyro also given the software?

B3501 said:
Could the 6P not poll its gyro also given the software?
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Probably doesn't have the CPU power to handle everything needed... kind of how HDR+ is way better on the Pixels. That, or Google is pulling shady moves and purposely hindering past devices to push new product.

I don't know what they are using for stability, but I did notice the pictures from the Pixel phones were much more sharper and detailed. Check out this video I made of a real world camera test on youtube. I got to play with the actual phones a few days before they came out and this was the first things i checked out. Just google techplughd. Thanks

This might help (go to minute 28)
https://www.dpreview.com/news/9782565306/google-launches-pixel-and-pixel-xl-smartphones
EDIT...the video in the link isn't set to the right time, I will tell you what time the video stabilization is shown.

4redstars said:
This might help (go to minute 28)
https://www.dpreview.com/news/9782565306/google-launches-pixel-and-pixel-xl-smartphones
EDIT...the video in the link isn't set to the right time, I will tell you what time the video stabilization is shown.
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thank you i watched the video again and understand now how it works .

Even when it seems a nice feature, the lack of OIS is still a sin in 2016 and for the price they pretend to charge.
Besides this, pinging the gyroscope 200 times per second is still more expensive (in terms of processing) than just add the proper hardware.
I don't believe this kind of stabilization could be better than normal EIS, so I'm staying skeptical until I see real conditions videos.

Here's a really good explanation of OIS vs EIS and being a current Nexus 6p user lowlight has been phenomenal so I'm excited about the Gyroscope and don't even care about not having OIS really.
https://9to5google.com/2016/10/10/g...firms-that-eis-will-still-work-with-4k-video/

I have a guess why no OIS, think this , without a OIS Gyroscope data perfectly match how camera lens moves, and software can pull the data out to correct the image, with OIS, the data from Gyroscope doesn't match the lens move any more, the EIS can only use the data from the camera to do stabilization which is less effective (cost more CPU and worse result). Some prople may argue OIS hardware can do the work, to be honest, OIS can offset some hand shake during low light taking pics, but during video recording, that little OIS can offer very little help smooth out the image, which actually not worth losing the ability to actually use Gyroscope to correct the image which can create more stable image. and Consider the pixel size of the camera is very large, much larger than even note 7, the low light shutter speed is actually fast enough so OIS really can't make much difference here. I use GS7 and I do notice taking low light pics take longer expose time, but google claim the pixel phone doesn't, which proves what I am guessing here. Let's see some real life test before jump to a conclusion, OIS is good, unless it is a big rig or on a big camera. On a phone, we just pick whatever works.

Does the Pixel have any sort of non-software based image stabilization for photos? (Gyroscope stabilization has only been mentioned for videos).

4redstars said:
Here's a really good explanation of OIS vs EIS and being a current Nexus 6p user lowlight has been phenomenal so I'm excited about the Gyroscope and don't even care about not having OIS really.
https://9to5google.com/2016/10/10/g...firms-that-eis-will-still-work-with-4k-video/
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jeffonion said:
I have a guess why no OIS, think this , without a OIS Gyroscope data perfectly match how camera lens moves, and software can pull the data out to correct the image, with OIS, the data from Gyroscope doesn't match the lens move any more, the EIS can only use the data from the camera to do stabilization which is less effective (cost more CPU and worse result). Some prople may argue OIS hardware can do the work, to be honest, OIS can offset some hand shake during low light taking pics, but during video recording, that little OIS can offer very little help smooth out the image, which actually not worth losing the ability to actually use Gyroscope to correct the image which can create more stable image. and Consider the pixel size of the camera is very large, much larger than even note 7, the low light shutter speed is actually fast enough so OIS really can't make much difference here. I use GS7 and I do notice taking low light pics take longer expose time, but google claim the pixel phone doesn't, which proves what I am guessing here. Let's see some real life test before jump to a conclusion, OIS is good, unless it is a big rig or on a big camera. On a phone, we just pick whatever works.
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There is no "data" from OIS, is just a mechanical system in order to compensate any movement made bu the user. The compensation is immediately and there is no need to process anything, and that's why is the preferred for most of the people. Besides, OIS help a lot with low light pictures and even when the Nexus 6P was really capable, the addition of OIS could have make a formidable experience in camera.
https://youtu.be/l5d2F6nP5MY?t=25s
EIS can't help with pictures, is only used for video, and even when it does somehow the job, the results are not so good, and it tends to have a lot of jelly effect. When you have OIS available, you can also make it work in conjunction with EIS and the results are awesome. Another point for the OIS is that it works with all resolutions, while EIS is dependant on the resolution and the processing power.
You can think this: best smartphone's cameras are the ones which include OIS, and they present really decent results even in low light. OIS helps you both in photo and video, while EIS is only for video.
I changed some months ago from a phone with OIS to one that doesn't have it, and I can say it's a world of difference in detail, even when the second one has better camera in paper, and when you mix the OIS and EIS, you get a really nice stabilized video without having to sacrifice much.
sabesh said:
Does the Pixel have any sort of non-software based image stabilization for photos? (Gyroscope stabilization has only been mentioned for videos).
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Exactly my point, Google is presuming about its new camera and its new stabilization, but most of the people take more photos than videos the whole time, and as far as I know, OIS is the only way to proper "stabilize" when taking pictures. Besides this, I would love to see manual controls and long exposure in this camera to see how good it does considering the lack of OIS and see if it's on pair with other smartphones.

Galaxo60 said:
Even when it seems a nice feature, the lack of OIS is still a sin in 2016 and for the price they pretend to charge.
Besides this, pinging the gyroscope 200 times per second is still more expensive (in terms of processing) than just add the proper hardware.
I don't believe this kind of stabilization could be better than normal EIS, so I'm staying skeptical until I see real conditions videos.
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But think about it. OIS is usually requested due to it performing better in low light conditions and stabilize the video (it's not to prevent blurry pictures). Google opted to go with a larger sensor that has a larger pixels, which in turn offer much better performance in low light. They then stabilized the camera with the gyroscope to prevent the jelly effect during recording. It's just a different take on the camera that will probably work just as well. Even better maybe.
Google has stated that the camera has a special core dedicated to it. Meaning processing power isn't lost at all.

scandalousk said:
But think about it. OIS is usually requested due to it performing better in low light conditions and stabilize the video (it's not to prevent blurry pictures).
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Wrong, OIS help you a lot by taking pictures in low light condition with a long exposure and prevent the blurry pictures, and that's why is a really nice adition to have.

Galaxo60 said:
Wrong, OIS help you a lot by taking pictures in low light condition with a long exposure and prevent the blurry pictures, and that's why is a really nice adition to have.
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Longer exposure time means that the camera is able to capture more light... Guess what else captures a lot more light? The large 1.55 micron pixels that the pixel phone has.
Taking pictures in the dark results in more noise, not blurred pictures perse.

With the f2.0 aperture, the pictures will have less depth vs a f1.7/1.8 aperture. Is that correct?
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

scandalousk said:
Longer exposure time means that the camera is able to capture more light... Guess what else captures a lot more light? The large 1.55 micron pixels that the pixel phone has.
Taking pictures in the dark results in more noise, not blurred pictures perse.
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I agree with you in these points, but the Nexus 6P has the same camera and still produces some unexpected results time to time, so if Google nailed it with this, I think many people would be happy.
This is some test in low light, and it seems focus is still messed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbLZq52fVQM

Galaxo60 said:
I agree with you in these points, but the Nexus 6P has the same camera and still produces some unexpected results time to time, so if Google nailed it with this, I think many people would be happy.
This is some test in low light, and it seems focus is still messed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbLZq52fVQM
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The Nexus 6P does not use the same camera as the Pixel phones. It's a different sensor. Although both phones have 1.55 micron pixels. The Nexus 6P also doesn't use any hardware based stabilization like the Pixel phone either.
And while focusing didn't happen in that videos. It's a single instance where OIS wouldn't have made a difference since the Nexus 6P did focus.
The best thing to do is just wait and see. I'm sure Google will give us something stellar.

scandalousk said:
The Nexus 6P does not use the same camera as the Pixel phones. It's a different sensor. Although both phones have 1.55 micron pixels. The Nexus 6P also doesn't use any hardware based stabilization like the Pixel phone either.
And while focusing didn't happen in that videos. It's a single instance where OIS wouldn't have made a difference since the Nexus 6P did focus.
The best thing to do is just wait and see. I'm sure Google will give us something stellar.
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This looks pretty nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oftbNhz8fU

Initial Camera Observations

Had my first day out with the V30 yesterday and just imported the photos and videos from it to my laptop for a closer look to make some initial evaluations. With some very interesting things to note and a lot to dig into further. There's definitely some realities that need to be addressed to better manage expectations.
1) I have no f'n clue what the HDR setting is doing other than making crappy photos. Which is about the same as it was on the V20. It's completely the opposite of what it was on the Nexus 6. On the Nexus 6, if you wanted the best photos out of the Google Camera you could get, you turned on HDR and forgot about it. With LG's Camera app, it's the exact opposite. Turn it off and forget it was ever there.
I still need to figure out the mess that the Google Camera app port has become and DL a copy and see how it does with this sensor.
2) If you shoot manual, there's a noise reduction on/off switch now. Unless you have some decent NR software though or know what you want to do with grainy photos (and I think it will have its uses, I just have to find the right subject), leave it on in very low light conditions. Not only does it tame grainy noise, it also tames a bit of purple fringe that will show up in high gain (high ISO) photos once the electronics start heating up around it.
3) As to that last part of #2: We have to be realistic here. This is a tiny cellphone camera packed in with A LOT of other electronics. If you're shooting several shots in a row or long exposures, either in dark conditions at high ISO, you will see amp glow or purple fringing. It's just a reality. Even DSLRs see it.
4) Digital zoom is digital zoom. If you aren't using just the standard view of each sensor, then you are going to see the limitations of a small sensor. I don't care what cellphone you're using. None of my larger/dedicated cameras have it for many good reasons. You shouldn't expect miracles from a smaller camera.
5) The wide angle sensor actually takes pretty good shots now in most conditions! The wide angle camera on the V20 was full of so many compromises that I avoided it at all costs. If I wanted a wider view than the standard lens, I would use the pano setting on the standard lens. Which is still a great option if everything in the frame is going to sit still but it takes time and patience. It still has distortion though, just not as much as before. You can't focus the wide angle in manual mode but you can in auto. Weird. It doesn't like to focus pointing directly overhead. That was hit or miss. Same rules about the NR and HDR apply here.
6) Video AF in low low light does miss sometimes. Again, just remember this phone doesn't have all the high end AF sensors that some DSLRs have to make sure focus is nailed every single time. Somewhere there's an article about the useful range of all the AF systems on the V20, I assume it still applies to the V30. I'll dig it up if I can to help manage expectations. If I remember right, laser AF is short range, maybe 7 feet.
7) During my import of files from my phone to my laptop, some of my videos lost their audio tracks. Not sure what that's about. I don't remember which ones were auto and which ones were manual but I suspect that's the problem. All videos have sound on my phone though.
8) I suck at video. Kinda hoping to kick myself in the rear with this phone and learn more about it. There's a lot more to manage and I probably won't be happy until I figure out the whole color grading thing and get the look I want. So the log file option ought to be a nice addition.
9) I remember telling someone that I swear I saw a video somewhere of a pre-unit that had the directional mics settings in manual video. Well, I can tell you that I must have imagined that because the unit I have does not have that setting. Just sliders and windcut.
10) And I don't know where LG is hiding it but I don't see 240 fps in any settings anywhere. The fastest video setting I see is 120fps. (Remember, only at 720p) I'm guessing 240 fps is reserved for the slo-mo mode and not available in manual or auto video modes.
11) Selfie camera. Yeah, I've seen the complaints. Are you sure your ugly mugs aren't breaking the camera? I posted this in the first impressions thread and I'll post it here. First thing I suggest doing is turning down the "skin toning" and skin lighting settings. Whoever renamed skin smoothing to skin toning should be shot as that's not what I thought that setting was at all. My first thought is that it adjusted the white balance of the skin to give you a rosier glow. Nope. Skin toning will butter face the heck out of you even on basics settings. Set it to zero. After that, the image held up well to some post processing and consistently gave me selfies I actually like. They actually remind me of something that might come from..... film.
I'm going to do some more shooting today and I'll try to figure out how to post examples without making you all click through to some other site. I also need to figure out how to get the videos over sound and all so I can give them honest assessments.

Ah, I just remembered something else to look out for.
12) If you shoot in manual and have the RAW option turned on, it isn't like on a real camera where you get the RAW file and a processed version of the RAW file. It shoots two photos. This does two things. One, it means you will see lag as it is shooting two photos for each press. This gets worse with longer shutter speeds. Two, this means unless you're shooting a still life that the RAW and JPG will not match. If you're shooting action like I was last night, you will get two completely different photos.

Interesting. Thanks for you observations.
I'm a pixel owner and I love the camera. It's ace. I really want to like the v30, but so far the real world observations and initial reviews haven't sung the praises of the camera. Are you happy with the camera or is it not worth the hype?

The camera is better than the V20 and I liked that a lot. Here's the issue in a nut shell. This phone is for those that aren't happy to just let the device to everything for you like an Apple product would. If that's what you want, that's what Pixels are about. Pixel is Google's iPhone. If you want control over the creative process, that's why the V's exist. The V series is more akin to using a DSLR and Pixels are more like a point and shoot. The Pixel series they're kinda hoping you're ok with whatever the phone spits out. The V series you tweak the initial settings and decide what the phone is even going to shoot so you can tweak it more to your liking later. The V30 gives us even more control than the V20 does.

CHH2 said:
The camera is better than the V20 and I liked that a lot. Here's the issue in a nut shell. This phone is for those that aren't happy to just let the device to everything for you like an Apple product would. If that's what you want, that's what Pixels are about. Pixel is Google's iPhone. If you want control over the creative process, that's why the V's exist. The V series is more akin to using a DSLR and Pixels are more like a point and shoot. The Pixel series they're kinda hoping you're ok with whatever the phone spits out. The V series you tweak the initial settings and decide what the phone is even going to shoot so you can tweak it more to your liking later. The V30 gives us even more control than the V20 does.
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Interesting. Thanks for the summary

I would like to but V30, all because camera. But I don't know is this camera one of the best in 2017 or it is just average camera. I see many bad comments on internet. And is front face camera really bad?

isko01 said:
I would like to but V30, all because camera. But I don't know is this camera one of the best in 2017 or it is just average camera. I see many bad comments on internet. And is front face camera really bad?
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I probably still have a few more days of testing but just based off of what I've seen in my standardized shooting at the museum, LG has pulled off a miracle with this tiny little sensor.
Like I said above, you have to have realistic expectations and know what the limits are of your gear. That's what a really good photographer does though. They know how the gear works and how to use what it does but also know when it's time to use something else or accept not getting a shot.
This is a tiny sensor. The largest sensor on this whole phone is only 1/3.09". It's smaller than the main one on the V20 but it looks better. That in itself is amazing but I'm not expecting a sensor that's 1/3 the size of the sensor of my smallest camera to match it. Yet that's what some people seem to expect . Which is asinine.
Really the only "failing" I had yesterday was trying to shoot overhead in extremely dark conditions with the wide angle camera and shooting performers wearing all black on an outdoor stage in the dark with just stage lighting (which was changing colors constantly) while moving around quickly. Neither of those surprised me at all. The second condition really is the realm of DSLRs still. The first one, I'm ok with too. That said, what I did get from the second condition, I'm still surprised with.
I've only had one day with it but I think I'm going to get some surprising images out of this camera. Now to teach myself more about video editing.
And again, about the front camera. Once you set those stupid settings to the bottom, you can get more skin detail out of a photo than most people would like to see. Every crease and furrow in my brow line and forehead ,pock mark in my nose, and hairs on my head and beard. From shooting models, I can tell you a lot of people wouldn't want to see that level of detail on their face. So I have no idea what people are complaining about. It's an f'n vanity camera that most people wouldn't want to use to its full potential.

Uploaded a couple of shots. All shots are my normal workflow with a cellphone camera. Shot with the V30 and the jpegs processed in Snapseed. First one is shot with the main camera overhead in a room not known for being well lit at the museum I used to work at. In fact the only real lighting is from some LEDs in the pearl at center. The LEDs are designed to be very soft so they don't degrade the paint and woodwork. The other two shots are selfies taken with indirect sunlight being the only light source indoors. The one with back background is indirect sun through clear glass. The one with the light background is indirect sunlight through very milky glass.
Main camera: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/36870848874/
Dark background selfie cam: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/37322765870/
Light background selfie cam: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/23728950428/
Seriously, I'm not sure I'd really want more detail than that. I'm actually quite please with how all of these images turned out so far. I'll try to work up some more shots from the main and wides.

Can you post some pics in a room at night with just a lamp on or something in auto mode?

EVOme said:
Can you post some pics in a room at night with just a lamp on or something in auto mode?
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I'll have to see what I can set up. That's not really a normal shot I have set-up or sitting around. I might be able to do something at work tomorrow before everyone else gets in and the whole place is blasted with light. Unfortunately, I no longer work at the museum but I might be able to make something work.

isko01 said:
I would like to but V30, all because camera. But I don't know is this camera one of the best in 2017 or it is just average camera. I see many bad comments on internet.
And is front face camera really bad?
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I'm not hijacking this thread, but you asked a specific question. There's another thread where the camera is discussed, along with other features, and @keithleger took all his in "auto" mode, to compare the two V30 back cameras, and he also compared it to the Note 8 camera which he's decided to sell.
Camera
-Excellent camera but not on par with Pixel line or Samsung. Don't get me wrong, it is a great camera and in the sunlight it is fantastic but low light it does not do as well as Note 8. Video or Stills. But it is very adequate for my needs and I prefer having the wide-angle lens over the zoom lens any day.
-The one thing that really bothered me was shutter lag at times. Sometimes when I snapped a photo it was almost instant and others I had to wait a second or so. Long enough to think I might not of pressed the button. Not sure if others have had this issue but it is troublesome. It was not isolated to taking multiple photos fairly quickly either. Sometimes first shot.
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However, he's selling the Note 8 to keep the LG V30.
He posted an album of his first weekend pictures, as well as the comparison shots to the Note 8. The V30 outside shots look FANTASTIC, and even though the Note 8seemed to do better indoors the LG V30 won at least one of the indoor shots, in my opinion.
As for selfies, he gives the same advice as @CHH2.. Turn off the enhancemet crap on the selfie camera.
keithleger said:
For selfies, if you set the skin tone and lighting effects to 0 then it is ok.
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CHH2 said:
Selfie camera. . First thing I suggest doing is turning down the "skin toning" and skin lighting settings.
Skin toning will butter face the heck out of you even on basics settings. Set it to zero.
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See, they say the same thing. The only reason I'm mentioning the other thread -- and I do not mean to hijack @CHH2 camera thread -- is because @keithleger has direct comparisons to the Note 8 camera was well as the f/1.6 and wide angle cameras on the V30. Plus he only shot in auto, and didn't do any post processing (to my knowledge).
I appreciate all the work @CHH2 has put into this thread!

CHH2 said:
I'll have to see what I can set up. That's not really a normal shot I have set-up or sitting around. I might be able to do something at work tomorrow before everyone else gets in and the whole place is blasted with light. Unfortunately, I no longer work at the museum but I might be able to make something work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! You don't have to go out of your way. I will have my phone tomorrow.

EVOme said:
Thanks! You don't have to go out of your way. I will have my phone tomorrow.
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Click to collapse
I shot this real quick this morning. It's completely SOOC. Yes, you might notice something rather odd and be asking yourself, "Why didn't he rotate the image?" Well, I didn't rotate it because on my phone the image is upright and correct. Somewhere between the phone and Flickr, it got rotated. I'll be deleting this one at the end of today as it's not really something I'd normally shoot even as a reminder or novelty.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/36882784984/
And just because I got lucky this morning, a little close up:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/37593620881/

Going to add one more photo. This one shot in probably one of the most challenging places to shoot, a jazz club. This is probably the cleanest shot I've taken in there with a cellphone. I'm impressed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/36883443574/

CHH2 said:
I shot this real quick this morning. It's completely SOOC. Yes, you might notice something rather odd and be asking yourself, "Why didn't he rotate the image?" Well, I didn't rotate it because on my phone the image is upright and correct. Somewhere between the phone and Flickr, it got rotated. I'll be deleting this one at the end of today as it's not really something I'd normally shoot even as a reminder or novelty.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/36882784984/
And just because I got lucky this morning, a little close up:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/37593620881/
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Click to collapse
Wow man! I have restored faith in the camera. That office shot is very sharp. For the grasshopper, are you using one of the installed filters or is a post render?
Thank you for taking those.

EVOme said:
Wow man! I have restored faith in the camera. That office shot is very sharp. For the grasshopper, are you using one of the installed filters or is a post render?
Thank you for taking those.
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Click to collapse
You're welcome. For photos, I never use the filters in the camera apps. I always use Snapseed. It has a lot more control and much more power once you learn how to apply the various filters in combination. The grasshopper only had typical post processing that most photographers would apply; a tad sharpening that is only really noticeable when zoomed in, B&W conversion, bump in contrast, and a bump in shadows to make them a tad darker. Oh, and a crop, maybe threw away a little more than half the overall pixels from the frame as I didn't want to scare it off.
And yeah, for being such a tiny sensor, I'm impressed with the low light shooting. I still want to try shooting in the basement of the jazz club. That's usually territory that I need at least my smaller dedicated camera if not my DSLR. I won't get to try that again until this next weekend.

Decided to try something a little different. This isn't final by any means but this shows what playing around for a couple of minutes in Snapseed with just a couple quick shots can get you: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/37605204891/
Looking forward to showing this to my curator friend and watching him fall off of his barstool when I tell him it was all done on one cellphone in under five minutes. (He's pretty much a film guy as is the guy who is the inspiration for this photo. Bonus points if you can name the photographer I'm copying for this photo.)

Main camera: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/36870848874/
Dark background selfie cam: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/37322765870/
Light background selfie cam: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/23728950428/
.[/QUOTE]
What camera was used for those selfies? I'm not a fan of selfies but love the ones you've taken. I'd like to experiment with it and my fiance would too.thank you. Btw love you test album. Talent for sure

lg3FTW said:
Main camera: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/36870848874/
Dark background selfie cam: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/37322765870/
Light background selfie cam: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chimphappyhour/23728950428/
.
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Click to collapse
What camera was used for those selfies? I'm not a fan of selfies but love the ones you've taken. I'd like to experiment with it and my fiance would too.thank you. Btw love you test album. Talent for sure[/QUOTE]
I used the front selfie camera with all of those silly settings at the bottom of the frame turned off, set to zero, whatever their values are. Then I just did some quick processing in Snapseed. That's pretty much it. I don't get too complex. And thank you.

Finally figured out a work around so I can hear the audio on the videos I'm importing from the phone to my laptop and can't believe I didn't think of this before. Pulled the videos from their folder over into an empty Chrome browser window and Voila! they played complete with their soundtrack!
So the following is from shooting in a dark jazz club. (Notes, not footage yet. I'll try uploading something to youtube when I figure out what, when, and how.)
Probably the most important observation I see about video from the V30 (and this actually applied to the V20 too) is that loud music can end up jostling the OIS and introduce more shake than it removes.
Another observation is that recording video while in Auto mode, you better make sure you have plenty of somewhat decent light. Tonight while playing around, the screen would be plenty bright all the way up until I hit that little red record button. Then the screen squeezes down and went dark enough that the footage was unusable. Shooting in manual video mode, I was able to get some footage. It wasn't exactly ideal settings that I was shooting with though so the footage is so-so. (Best settings I could get were ISO 3200 and a shutter speed of 1/25. My understanding is that since I had my frame rate at 24fps, I should have had a shutter speed of 1/50 but that just wasn't happening inside that place.)
In manual video mode, it really doesn't like ISO 3200 for some reason. I'd play with a setting and come back and the ISO would be set to 3150 for some reason. I'd bump it back up to 3200, go do something else, come back to 3150. I would have to make sure that's the last thing I tweaked before hitting the record button.
The audio picks up pretty much all the sounds I'm hearing. I need to sit down with headphones and see if there's extra noise being introduced. I suspect dragging the videos into the Chrome browser is exactly the best quality test. It just lets me know the audio tracks are intact in the file which I was a little worried about at first.
I still have a lot more playing around with the video as most of it is new to me.

Camera/Photography thread - tips, apps, advice

Hi, guys,
I'm coming from an Xperia Z3C, which had a camera that was pretty bad. Even though some bash the XZ1C camera, it's a lot better than what I used.
I'm no photographer and I dont' know the apps, so I'd like everyone to share what they know and use.

doriandiaconu said:
Hi, guys,
I'm coming from an Xperia Z3C, which had a camera that was pretty bad. Even though some bash the XZ1C camera, it's a lot better than what I used.
I'm no photographer and I dont' know the apps, so I'd like everyone to share what they know and use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Despite people putting down the stock camera, I find it does take good a picture, although using a small tripod gets the best results. This is far from idea for a phone, but just resting the phone on something solid dramtically imporves the picture.
The focusing seems to be better if you turn off 'object tracking' and although HDR is supposed to be automatic in the auto mode, I tend to shoot in manual with HDR enabled. The predictive capture is a good & useful tool. I wasn't sure when I first saw it introduced, but it does a burst shot when it gets triggered by a smile and dramtically increases your chances of getting a great picture.
My favorite post proccessing app is SKRWT. I love taking landscapes and this is great for straightening things or there are some funky mirror effects.

Didgesteve said:
Despite people putting down the stock camera, I find it does take good a picture, although using a small tripod gets the best results. This is far from idea for a phone, but just resting the phone on something solid dramtically imporves the picture.
The focusing seems to be better if you turn off 'object tracking' and although HDR is supposed to be automatic in the auto mode, I tend to shoot in manual with HDR enabled. The predictive capture is a good & useful tool. I wasn't sure when I first saw it introduced, but it does a burst shot when it gets triggered by a smile and dramtically increases your chances of getting a great picture.
My favorite post proccessing app is SKRWT. I love taking landscapes and this is great for straightening things or there are some funky mirror effects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the resolution? Many people avoid the 19MP resolution for different reasons.

doriandiaconu said:
What about the resolution? Many people avoid the 19MP resolution for different reasons.
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Click to collapse
19MP is the only resolution. It's the native size of the sensor, meaning you get one=one. Anything else is derived from a software interpretation.
People seem to be obsessed by letterbox, perhaps because that's the way they watch TV. If you don't like the square shape of a 19MP picture, then edit it afterwards, but a least get the best quality you can to start with.

I've taken some decent shots with Open Camera. I like its DRO mode (dynamic range optimization). Haven't had much luck with stock camera app, although I'm a fan of the wide angle selfie camera.

the camera is good not more... not a lot of choices in creative mode, iA can't be customized, "macro" focus at 10 cm... at least it's pretty fast

I use the stock app, mainly in manual mode without object tracking (with that setting on I find the focus is a little inaccurate, maybe just an impression).
Overall i would say the app has all you need to take a photo plus a couple of nice features (like autofocus burst mode and predictive capture).

Any tips on what kind of exposure and ISO to use in manual mode? My pics always come out blurry.
Edit: For example, would the tips here apply? https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-xz/how-to/xperia-xz-camera-how-to-optimize-manual-t3534640
Sounds like most people are saying choose a low ISO and EV a little below 1.
I'm particularly interested in tips or settings that don't require a tripod, because I don't own one. And I think it's unrealistic to expect people to use a tripod to take decent phone pics.

I had a big night shootout in Frankfurt with XZ1c and Galaxy s8. Im not good in photography and all shoots are in Auto mode. Couple of shoots are manipulated in Adobe Lightroom in Auto light and color corections. They names started with LLR....
What You think?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YUQIYsKXGg5tGugK2

propov said:
I had a big night shootout in Frankfurt with XZ1c and Galaxy s8. Im not good in photography and all shoots are in Auto mode. Couple of shoots are manipulated in Adobe Lightroom in Auto light and color corections. They names started with LLR....
What You think?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YUQIYsKXGg5tGugK2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm no photography expert, but I could see the difference instantly on most of these. The XZ1c photos were blurry and seemed improperly exposed. The S8 wasn't perfect, but it was generally a lot sharper. This basically mirrors my experience with the XZ1c and my previous phone that had a better camera, HTC 10.

Has anyone installed AOSP and got the Pixel's camera apk working on the xz1c? This is my main motivation for going the root -> rom route.

Take a picture of a green lawn or of leafy trees, and there's often an unpleasant, slightly smeary watercolor-like effect. Is it possible that using another camera application would prevent this processing effect?

Hello,
I am sorry in case this has been covered so far. I did not find it.
I have a custom ROM (RR6), but would like to use the stock Camera mainly for the slow motion 960fps video recording. It seems to be possible via this topic:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/cr...-apps/app-xperia-xzs-panorama-camera-t3577514
But even if it worked, it would replace the custom ROM's Camera, which I'd like to keep. Is there a way to run these two Cameras side by side?
Or should I use another 3rd party app that does the slo-mo job?
Thanks a lot for anz advidce!

vhatp said:
Hello,
I am sorry in case this has been covered so far. I did not find it.
I have a custom ROM (RR6), but would like to use the stock Camera mainly for the slow motion 960fps video recording. It seems to be possible via this topic:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/cr...-apps/app-xperia-xzs-panorama-camera-t3577514
But even if it worked, it would replace the custom ROM's Camera, which I'd like to keep. Is there a way to run these two Cameras side by side?
Or should I use another 3rd party app that does the slo-mo job?
Thanks a lot for anz advidce!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea thats my concern as well. I am not sure if drm fix can re-enable the 960fps slow mo or is it gone for good after unlocking bootloader. If only we can get gcam and stock camera run together

Question No zoom lens until 5x

So I noticed that the zoom lens only activates at 5x zoom. You can see this by covering the lens with your finger and zooming in.
I gather this must mean that the optical 4x lens is fixed at 4x, but as it only kicks in at 5x zoom you can never get 4x optical zoom shots as it is cropped to 5x ?
This would also mean that up to 5x zoom you are just getting a digital crop of the main lens?
Am I missing something here? Seems a little weird that you cant get a 4x optical shot with a 4x optical lens fitted.

rosso22 said:
So I noticed that the zoom lens only activates at 5x zoom. You can see this by covering the lens with your finger and zooming in.
I gather this must mean that the optical 4x lens is fixed at 4x, but as it only kicks in at 5x zoom you can never get 4x optical zoom shots as it is cropped to 5x ?
This would also mean that up to 5x zoom you are just getting a digital crop of the main lens?
Am I missing something here? Seems a little weird that you cant get a 4x optical shot with a 4x optical lens fitted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Googles periscope lens doesn't kick in a "fixed" manner, it uses an algorithm (ambient light, shaking, distance to object etc) to decide "on its own" when to kick in the dedicated zoom lens. You can easily test this out/replicate this by lowering the light in your room/and or change your distance to your desired object and see that the point where periscope lens kicks in, changes.
Best just try to focus on the amount of details you can see, if you play around with it, you can quickly see through the Preview when periscope kicks in, since that will improve the amount of details in your preview window significantly.
Many people here want "fixed" values, but as of now, Google doesn't offer that.
This is also a big problem in reviews, since those people don't know about this limitation and you can often see a "here, 4x shot, not looking good" and my eyes tell me "jea, that's a digital crop, you m*ron" and none are the wiser.

So your saying you never know whether you will get a crop or an optical zoom shot at 4x, this makes the 4x lens pointless imho.
Google are basically stopping you using a feature of the phone whenever you want. If every zoom shot is a gamble on cropped or optical, decided by the phone, surely they are stopping you from getting the best performance from the camera every shot/zoom length.
If I choose a 4x shot I want optical every time or I may as well have bought the 6 instead of the pro and saved some money.

The deciding factor on whether it's digital zoom or the telephoto lens is the distance of the object. I estimate the telephoto lens minimum focus distance is around 4 feet. As you go between close and far objects, you can see the stutter between the digital 4x and telephoto 4x. You could always cover the either the main lens or telephoto and figure it out too. What they really need to do is add an icon in the camera app that lets you know it's 4x digital zoom or 4x telephoto.
This isn't something that's only unique to the 6 Pro.

EeZeEpEe said:
What they really need to do is add an icon in the camera app that lets you know it's 4x digital zoom or 4x telephoto.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I think that's the best solution for now, let people know what they have at the moment.

rosso22 said:
So your saying you never know whether you will get a crop or an optical zoom shot at 4x, this makes the 4x lens pointless imho.
Google are basically stopping you using a feature of the phone whenever you want. If every zoom shot is a gamble on cropped or optical, decided by the phone, surely they are stopping you from getting the best performance from the camera every shot/zoom length.
If I choose a 4x shot I want optical every time or I may as well have bought the 6 instead of the pro and saved some money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The threshold in the HAL is at about 4.3x provided that all the other requirements for the switch are met. You can see the image "jump" slightly when it crosses the threshold because the image characteristics do not match perfectly. So yes, you can definitely tell which sensor it is using.
The reason why they don't alert you to which sensor it is using is because they (gooble) think they're smarter than you and better able to pick the right sensor.

Another thing to keep in mind is if the 4x telephoto was the default, anything too close would be immediately blurry. Then how do you switch to a digital zoom?

They could just give us a way of selecting the lens in use manually. Instead of treating us all like idiots.

rosso22 said:
They could just give us a way of selecting the lens in use manually. Instead of treating us all like idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck with that. Truly given the way the entire world is being run right now, its pretty clear that the vast majority of people *ARE* idiots. And that is putting it mildly. So best way to make money is to sell to the majority, who are stupid enough to trust government -- those people clearly can't think for themselves.

rosso22 said:
So your saying you never know whether you will get a crop or an optical zoom shot at 4x, this makes the 4x lens pointless imho.
Google are basically stopping you using a feature of the phone whenever you want. If every zoom shot is a gamble on cropped or optical, decided by the phone, surely they are stopping you from getting the best performance from the camera every shot/zoom length.
If I choose a 4x shot I want optical every time or I may as well have bought the 6 instead of the pro and saved some money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, return your pro and get the 6. be happier.

It's worse on video. I took a supposedly 4x video of my dog and it looks terrible. Pixelated, oversharpened and unusable.

MacGuy2006 said:
It's worse on video. I took a supposedly 4x video of my dog and it looks terrible. Pixelated, oversharpened and unusable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have 4k60fps enabled?
For some odd reason, Google only allows the dedicated sensors to kick in if you use 30fps, since both the ultrawide and Tele module do not support 4k60fps.
So if you zoom in whilst having 4k60fps enabled, it will always be a digital zoom.

This is one of the most annoying features. The 4x lense can focus as reasonably close range but the "ai" deciding to either crop and main lense or switch to the periscope is crap.
You can trick it by switching to 4x and focusing on a distant object and back again and hope it's just within range.
People ask why use it so close, but the 4x can really aid in composing a shot without the wide distortions.
Another issue is if you adjust anything like HDR or temperature on the main lense and switch focal length to other options it doesn't switch to the actual lense you want anymore!!

MacGuy2006 said:
It's worse on video. I took a supposedly 4x video of my dog and it looks terrible. Pixelated, oversharpened and unusable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't use the telephoto sensor for video. Only the other two.

86rickard said:
This is one of the most annoying features. The 4x lense can focus as reasonably close range but the "ai" deciding to either crop and main lense or switch to the periscope is crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my book, that's an idiotic "feature" and is in fact a bug.
It makes zooming in day-to-day use unusable in most common cases.
When I zoomed to 4x and took a video, the result (1080) was not usable. It's a joke.

I think the conclusion here is the entire camera system really needs work. The hardware is better but the software is letting it down. Jerky transitions, bugs and a processing algorithm left over from the lower quality sensor days that actually over works the 50mp images.

96carboard said:
You can't use the telephoto sensor for video. Only the other two.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you can. I just tested it by setting it to 4x, making sure I'm focused on something far enough, and blocking the telephoto lens does block the picture.

Just discussing this elsewhere, with regard to the MWP GCam mod. This is a *serious* improvement over the stock app; the one thing they could do to make it perfect is give you control over when the periscope kicks in. If anyone here knows the people working on this, please mention this. The mod is here, btw — you really should try it! The version you want is 8.3.252-V1c_MWP:
MWP GCam APKs - Google Camera Port
Modified Google Camera app by MWP.
www.celsoazevedo.com

Gnaius said:
Just discussing this elsewhere, with regard to the MWP GCam mod. This is a *serious* improvement over the stock app; the one thing they could do to make it perfect is give you control over when the periscope kicks in. If anyone here knows the people working on this, please mention this. The mod is here, btw — you really should try it! The version you want is 8.3.252-V1c_MWP:
MWP GCam APKs - Google Camera Port
Modified Google Camera app by MWP.
www.celsoazevedo.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That may not actually be an option. The hal only presents one logical camera on that side of the phone and transparently switches between the sensors based on the level of zoom requested, and an assortment of other data.
I haven't looked into what the hal looks like, is it open source? If it is, presumably it could be modified to present 3 or 4 logical cameras (I.e. 3 individual + 1 combined).

Gnaius said:
Just discussing this elsewhere, with regard to the MWP GCam mod. This is a *serious* improvement over the stock app;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is it an improvement?
Testing zoom, it still uses the main lens on 1x, 2x ad 4x. Just like the stock camera does.
This is another reason to dislike this phone and to recommend against buying it.