Develop Bugs

Wipe to update/reflash...or ODIN.

I posted a thread a while back but I apparently posted the wrong type of thread. This one should be the right of the right type and in the right place.
On the Samsung devices I've had in the past, the boot loader was always a big deal when flashing new versions of android. I've had this tablet for a while now and haven't updated it since I bought it...and Odin flashed/rooted/installed TWRP on it.
From reading the megathreads, from threads, flashing threads, etc...it's not very clear if this is like the other Samsung devices I've had, or if this is like the EEEpad Transformer and Nexus 7 I had...and could move freely between android versions, stock roms...and nonstock ROMs, etc.
I'm running 5.0.2 and I play hearthstone competitively. I bought this for the display mainly, and now that I've loaded it with some crap, I'd like to flash a custom from/update. It seems my crap+samsungs crap saturates the ram quite well. Can I pretty much flash what I'd like? Or do I have to ODIN from stock to the latest build and then worry about number versions.
Also...I used to run an all that kept my TWRP version up to date. Goomanager I believe...but there are dozens of apps that claim to do this now...can I get a trusted suggestion?
Rooted on stock.
Android Version: 5.0.2
Kernel: 3.4.106 IronKernel V2.0 (mainly for s tweaks to boost audio)
Build LRX22G.T800XXU1BOC3

Forget about using an app to flash twrp.
Do it manually and be safe. Plus the official updates are lacking in features compared to the unofficial builds. Just check out the dev section and you'll see what I mean.

Thanks for the advice. And as far as flashing roms...can I pretty much flash what I'd like? Ex: go back and forth between Cm and stock builds...and between version builds while ignoring the boot loader? I'm basically trying to see if I've missed something critical since I rooted and flashed so long ago.

Jamesyboy said:
Thanks for the advice. And as far as flashing roms...can I pretty much flash what I'd like? Ex: go back and forth between Cm and stock builds...and between version builds while ignoring the boot loader? I'm basically trying to see if I've missed something critical since I rooted and flashed so long ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as you don't flash a firmware build that is incompatible with your current bootloader you can flash what you want back and forth.

ashyx said:
As long as you don't flash a firmware build that is incompatible with your current bootloader you can flash what you want back and forth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats what I figured. I'm running the stock rom rooted. I don't know what boot loader I'm on, or how to get to the latest one. I have all the access in the world-- recovery, root. But there isn't a place here...or anywhere that clearly says what am going on. I have a charging issue and would like to foahh a new Kernel, and I might as well update in the process,...by there is no "Upgrade from Xxx while on the stock rooted ROM" guide. Plus my laptop has a crappy USB port, so If I need to Odin something on here, itd be quite the process.
Ive asked around for months, literally. I've never been in this position before. Have always kept up to date. But once you fall behind, in forums like these (especially given the fact hat there are multiple devices in this section), you need something explicit to get back where you need to be.
Last time I looked, there weren't any instructions. Ill look against today to see if I can just download the latest..zip of a 10.5 stock ROM from somewhere in the dev section and then wipe, and flash that. If you know if its alright to just wipe and flash a new ROM, lemme know. Or if I have to Odin to a new one in order to get a new boot loader before I flash the latest Kernel, which I think then one I'm trying to use his BOJ. IRONKernel. I use it for S Tweaks, the sound, and a few performance tweaks.

You have to flash the bootloader with Odin they are posted in the bootloader thread.
You can flash the stock firmware with flashfire.

OTA Update? How shall I do it when rooted and unlocked?

So I have a Verizon Pixel XL that has been unlocked, TWRP alpha installed, and rooted....
How shall I update my build? Should I even update the build?
My goal is to have the latest update running on my system (manually flashing or OTA I don't care) with an unlocked rooted Pixel XL that can broadcast wifi natively.
I have everthing down except the update piece. Any advice?

You have TWRP and root? How is that working? I was reading that SuperSu needs an update to work with it. Also many people who have taken the OTA (or even flash full system image) are getting stuck in the bouncing balls boot loop. I would hold off on updating. No real major changes as of yet.

Twrp is working fine but I have nothing to flash to test...????

networx2002 said:
Twrp is working fine but I have nothing to flash to test...????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah that is what I'm hinting at.... There is no updated ROM to work with TWRP yet that is updated to the latest Google Build

Root is working. I have twrp alpha 2. Root and elementalx 8 all installed. Although, im getting my daydream headset tomm. And when you install the app it tells you to check for updates. It says I have one. But if you look at the OTA updates NDE63 is the newest. Which im on. So I dn at this point. I guess i'll just roll with it for now. The dev that made purenexus that I ran on my nexus 6. Says hes working on it already and gets his on the 21st. So i'll just stick with what I have for now. I'm sure we'll see roms pretty soon

So, what is the proper/safe way to install an update without breaking anything? Losing root is not a concern since we can just reflash TWRP and SuperSU, but what's the process? Searching is not resulting in a guide that I can be 100% confident in.

I am rooted in my pixel XL. Can I accept OTA updates without losing root? If not, is there a developer/thread that has a safe update to flash? I am not on a custom ROM, I'm stock. Thanks

s1dest3pnate said:
So, what is the proper/safe way to install an update without breaking anything? Losing root is not a concern since we can just reflash TWRP and SuperSU, but what's the process? Searching is not resulting in a guide that I can be 100% confident in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jreink01 said:
I am rooted in my pixel XL. Can I accept OTA updates without losing root? If not, is there a developer/thread that has a safe update to flash? I am not on a custom ROM, I'm stock. Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hit Google's Android OTA page, the file and directions are there to ADB sideload it. You will have to reroot and install TWRP if tou want that.

What i did was download the latest factory image from here from there I used this guide on post two section 8, installed the latest update, restored from cloud back up logged into all my apps (important if you use snapchat), reinstalled TWRP + Root + ElementalX and i was good to go, might seem like a little bit of work, but I've done it so many times I can get it done quickly now.

DeathSentinels said:
What i did was download the latest factory image from here from there I used this guide on post two section 8, installed the latest update, restored from cloud back up logged into all my apps (important if you use snapchat), reinstalled TWRP + Root + ElementalX and i was good to go, might seem like a little bit of work, but I've done it so many times I can get it done quickly now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you edit the flash-all.bat file and take out the -w near the end you wont flash user data. So you can skip restoring your cloud backup and apps. Backup just to be safe though.

TonikJDK said:
Hit Google's Android OTA page, the file and directions are there to ADB sideload it. You will have to reroot and install TWRP if tou want that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have a few more questions. If I do this procedure, is there the possibility that I won't be able to reroot with each update? If I do reroot and reinstall TWRP, is that like a factory reset where I will lose all my data? Back years ago when I would flash Roms, you could install a update without having to factory reset each time, Is this possible with the pixel with being stock? I would love to get the updates each month but don't want to do it if each time I have to reroot, reinstall TWRP and having all my data wiped. Thanks

jreink01 said:
Have a few more questions. If I do this procedure, is there the possibility that I won't be able to reroot with each update? If I do reroot and reinstall TWRP, is that like a factory reset where I will lose all my data? Back years ago when I would flash Roms, you could install a update without having to factory reset each time, Is this possible with the pixel with being stock? I would love to get the updates each month but don't want to do it if each time I have to reroot, reinstall TWRP and having all my data wiped. Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it won't stop you from re-rooting and it will not factory reset your phone. So each month you will not lose your data but you will have to reinstall TWRP and root.

TonikJDK said:
No, it won't stop you from re-rooting and it will not factory reset your phone. So each month you will not lose your data but you will have to reinstall TWRP and root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, thanks, that's good to know. When I lose root, will that mess with any of my apps that need root to work like titanium backup? Or will I just need to grant it user privileges again? I have never done this particular process before so I am a little weiry. Do you know of a step by step guide to do this? Sorry but I would feel more comfortable that way. Thanks for all you help and feedback, it's been years since I last went through the rooting, flashing process so, I guess I am being extra cautious. I have/am learning by the feedback you have given me.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I am rooted with TWRP RC1
i never sideloaded an OTA before, alway applied factory images. Too lazy, but tired of all the rework.
i folllowed,
https://9to5google.com/2016/12/05/how-to-sideload-android-7-1-1-nmf26o-onto-the-pixel/
no data loss.
just had to use fastboot to reinstall TWRP and reflash SUPERSU.
All is well.

If I choose to side load it, do I root and install TWRP the same way I did when I first did this, with ADB on my windows PC? And side loading will work with a new operating system (when it comes out) along with the monthly security updates? I just checked and my latest security update is from January. If I updated March's update, would that automatically have the February one with it?
---------- Post added at 02:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 AM ----------
TonikJDK said:
Hit Google's Android OTA page, the file and directions are there to ADB sideload it. You will have to reroot and install TWRP if tou want that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went to the Google page but all of the links are to 7.1.1 which I am currently on 7.1.2. Plus I am just looking for the security update that just dropped for March.

jreink01 said:
I went to the Google page but all of the links are to 7.1.1 which I am currently on 7.1.2. Plus I am just looking for the security update that just dropped for March.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, didn't know that.
You are on a different path. You wait on Google for updates. There might be, there might not be. Certainly 7.1.2 will go live and we will all be on the same path and then 7.1.2 will get monthly updates, but when that is we don't know.
So for now you stay where you are, or you flash back to 7.1.1. we can do that without data loss if you want.

TonikJDK said:
Ok, didn't know that.
You are on a different path. You wait on Google for updates. There might be, there might not be. Certainly 7.1.2 will go live and we will all be on the same path and then 7.1.2 will get monthly updates, but when that is we don't know.
So for now you stay where you are, or you flash back to 7.1.1. we can do that without data loss if you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I am in the beta program, that's why I am on this version. So, I'm assuming the beta's don't get updates then? I have turned off automatic updates since I'm rooted. Would you recommend I turn that back on or no? If I'm correct, I can't take a OTA since I'm rooted so I was correct in turning off automatic updates then? I will probably stay on this version since the difference is improvement and bug fixes. So, when 7.1.2 rolls out to everyone, then I would assume that that version would show up on the Google page then?
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Best method for taking updates?

So I might have gotten a nice stroke of luck here. Got a Pixel XL from Verizon with no intentions to do any modifying of any kind. I took the OTA update to 7.1.1. A few weeks later, I finally dove into the forums to see what kinda development we got going for this phone. I read that the bootloader is forever locked. Since buying the phone, I had tons of freezes, crashes, and reboots. I sent the phone in to Verizon and got my replacement with 7.1! I unlocked the bootloader and I couldn't hold true to my initial plans of not modifying it. Currently I have a Verizon Pixel XL, bootloader is unlocked, twrp, franco r6 kernel, root. On build NMF26O. What is the best/quickest method for updating with these monthly security patches and such?

https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-xl/how-to/guide-how-to-unlock-root-flash-pixel-xl-t3507886
Step 9

joooe said:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-xl/how-to/guide-how-to-unlock-root-flash-pixel-xl-t3507886
Step 9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Either I'm going crazy or just plain dumb, but there's only 8 steps when I go to that link

jdpro22 said:
Either I'm going crazy or just plain dumb, but there's only 8 steps when I go to that link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right LOL. There is no Step 9 :laugh:
I myself am not clear yet, but I think you need to flash stock recovery and kernel and then you could take the OTA update and install it. That will be the easiest. But I always like to do it clean, so I download the OTA and then sideload it via ADB. Obviously I take a backup before and then restore it.
But just make sure that there is a way to restore stock recovery, I am not clear about that part, stock boot.img is easy to find and flash, I don't know whether that restores the stock recovery too or not.

Start at step 4 here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/pixel-xl/how-to/info-how-restored-to-stock-soft-t3494478
Just remember to delete "-w" from flash-all.bat so your data is not wiped!

Safe STOCK Oreo by Fastboot FULL flash!

Safe STOCK Oreo by Fastboot FULL flash:
download file from my gdrive: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XWoaudSHAhQMWi3Au4wmtf2QaCrhugoD
Now to what matters...
Important!!! Only for RETAIL versions AMERICAS with working band base ending in ¨R¨, also for people who DID NOT mess up with persist and EFS...otherwise it is likely to loose IMEI...also....working for previous BRICKED devices that need to use Moto Z bootloader, but only RETAIL AMERICAS versions.
Anything else, please read and follow this post here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/g5-plus/how-to/moto-g5-plus-fastboot-flash-stock-oreo-t3848433
download and unzip file.
extract ROM folder and copy within very same folder the adb fastboot oreo g5+ folder and content extracted in same folder all together.
before going on, make sure you have motorola latest drivers installed, found in ADDONS, adbz folder, motorola device manager.
restart phone in bootloader, connect to laptop.
run file with name OREO G5 PLUS DE CERO.bat (spanish whatever), once done, unplug and restart phone.
should delay a few moments and go into setup.
additionally, you may want to install latest TWRP 3231 found in RECOVERIEZ folder.
additionally, you may want to flash motorola boot logo found in BOOT LOGOZ folder, to prevent the unlocked phone boring screen.
additionally, you may want to flash Magisk 17.1 in ROOTZ folder, only Magisk file, nothing else.
additionally, you may want to flash Kernels like Extended or EX found in KERNELZ folder.
some apps in APPZ folder that I use.
in REVIVALZ you may find files to bring bricked phone to life, but that is another history you may need to find out by reading posts.
in ADBz you can find extra folders for CMD commands.
This tuto is for knowledgeable people.
I have my device working fine in official stock again, however........BOOTLOADER STAYS FOR MOTOZ, meaning, you cannot take OTAS, reason for which locking Bootloader is unnecesary, recommended that once TWRP3231 is flashed, you may backup averything, all partitions, remember this is the last backup for official STOCK we will have from Motonovo.
For further updated official releases, just flash as regular in adb-cmd.
Ciao Babies!!!

Iam uploading my special Bricked moto Z Loader Stock Oreo TWRP Moto G5+ for those who may need it, ciao!!!

Thank you very much, I just followed your method, very fast and clean, thank you I got Oreo on my phone!

SowilM said:
Thank you very much, I just followed your method, very fast and clean, thank you I got Oreo on my phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy to help brother!

So this will work for european users who did not break their persist?

Fabiuz99 said:
So this will work for european users who did not break their persist?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as i Know only for retail americas but you can try on your own and let us know

Battery performance is for fully happy and satisfied OVERWHELMING

will it work for indian version
will it work for indian version
---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------
prnv1312 said:
will it work for indian version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thnks alot man

can i update my moto g5 plus build number NPNS25.137-93-14 rooted with this?
LLegion said:
Safe STOCK Oreo by Fastboot FULL flash:
download file from my gdrive: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XWoaudSHAhQMWi3Au4wmtf2QaCrhugoD
Now to what matters...
Important!!! Only for RETAIL versions AMERICAS with working band base ending in ¨R¨, also for people who DID NOT mess up with persist and EFS...otherwise it is likely to loose IMEI...also....working for previous BRICKED devices that need to use Moto Z bootloader, but only RETAIL AMERICAS versions.
Anything else, please read and follow this post here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/g5-plus/how-to/moto-g5-plus-fastboot-flash-stock-oreo-t3848433
download and unzip file.
extract ROM folder and copy within very same folder the adb fastboot oreo g5+ folder and content extracted in same folder all together.
before going on, make sure you have motorola latest drivers installed, found in ADDONS, adbz folder, motorola device manager.
restart phone in bootloader, connect to laptop.
run file with name OREO G5 PLUS DE CERO.bat (spanish whatever), once done, unplug and restart phone.
should delay a few moments and go into setup.
additionally, you may want to install latest TWRP 3231 found in RECOVERIEZ folder.
additionally, you may want to flash motorola boot logo found in BOOT LOGOZ folder, to prevent the unlocked phone boring screen.
additionally, you may want to flash Magisk 17.1 in ROOTZ folder, only Magisk file, nothing else.
additionally, you may want to flash Kernels like Extended or EX found in KERNELZ folder.
some apps in APPZ folder that I use.
in REVIVALZ you may find files to bring bricked phone to life, but that is another history you may need to find out by reading posts.
in ADBz you can find extra folders for CMD commands.
This tuto is for knowledgeable people.
I have my device working fine in official stock again, however........BOOTLOADER STAYS FOR MOTOZ, meaning, you cannot take OTAS, reason for which locking Bootloader is unnecesary, recommended that once TWRP3231 is flashed, you may backup averything, all partitions, remember this is the last backup for official STOCK we will have from Motonovo.
For further updated official releases, just flash as regular in adb-cmd.
Ciao Babies!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can i update my moto g5 plus build number NPNS25.137-93-14 rooted with this? june security update

LLegion said:
Safe STOCK Oreo by Fastboot FULL flash:
download file from my gdrive: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XWoaudSHAhQMWi3Au4wmtf2QaCrhugoD
Now to what matters...
Important!!! Only for RETAIL versions AMERICAS with working band base ending in ¨R¨, also for people who DID NOT mess up with persist and EFS...otherwise it is likely to loose IMEI...also....working for previous BRICKED devices that need to use Moto Z bootloader, but only RETAIL AMERICAS versions.
Anything else, please read and follow this post here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/g5-plus/how-to/moto-g5-plus-fastboot-flash-stock-oreo-t3848433
download and unzip file.
extract ROM folder and copy within very same folder the adb fastboot oreo g5+ folder and content extracted in same folder all together.
before going on, make sure you have motorola latest drivers installed, found in ADDONS, adbz folder, motorola device manager.
restart phone in bootloader, connect to laptop.
run file with name OREO G5 PLUS DE CERO.bat (spanish whatever), once done, unplug and restart phone.
should delay a few moments and go into setup.
additionally, you may want to install latest TWRP 3231 found in RECOVERIEZ folder.
additionally, you may want to flash motorola boot logo found in BOOT LOGOZ folder, to prevent the unlocked phone boring screen.
additionally, you may want to flash Magisk 17.1 in ROOTZ folder, only Magisk file, nothing else.
additionally, you may want to flash Kernels like Extended or EX found in KERNELZ folder.
some apps in APPZ folder that I use.
in REVIVALZ you may find files to bring bricked phone to life, but that is another history you may need to find out by reading posts.
in ADBz you can find extra folders for CMD commands.
This tuto is for knowledgeable people.
I have my device working fine in official stock again, however........BOOTLOADER STAYS FOR MOTOZ, meaning, you cannot take OTAS, reason for which locking Bootloader is unnecesary, recommended that once TWRP3231 is flashed, you may backup averything, all partitions, remember this is the last backup for official STOCK we will have from Motonovo.
For further updated official releases, just flash as regular in adb-cmd.
Ciao Babies!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
will it work on a latin american one? xt1680 currently on npn25.137-92 november patch unlocked bootloader. This is not my daily driver. If the flash of this oreo rom doesnt work, can i just reflash my npn25.137-92 firmware back? or will that not work?

carloandreaguilar said:
will it work on a latin american one? xt1680 currently on npn25.137-92 november patch unlocked bootloader. This is not my daily driver. If the flash of this oreo rom doesnt work, can i just reflash my npn25.137-92 firmware back? or will that not work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am friom mexico and my phone is working perfect...is your question anserred alwearu...can not go back to nouhat

will it work for indian version XT1686

LLegion said:
Safe STOCK Oreo by Fastboot FULL flash:
I have my device working fine in official stock again, however........BOOTLOADER STAYS FOR MOTOZ, meaning, you cannot take OTAS, reason for which locking Bootloader is unnecesary, recommended that once TWRP3231 is flashed, you may backup averything, all partitions, remember this is the last backup for official STOCK we will have from Motonovo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please clarify the above info. I have a U.S. x1687 that is still stock nougat that I'd like to upgrade to Oreo (since Motonovo screwed everyone with the August security update and lots of us are experiencing major battery drain issues!) . I'd like to remain completely stock if at all possible. Any way to update with the Moto G5+ bootloader?

carloandreaguilar said:
will it work on a latin american one? xt1680 currently on npn25.137-92 november patch unlocked bootloader. This is not my daily driver. If the flash of this oreo rom doesnt work, can i just reflash my npn25.137-92 firmware back? or will that not work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nvrpayretail said:
Can you please clarify the above info. I have a U.S. x1687 that is still stock nougat that I'd like to upgrade to Oreo (since Motonovo screwed everyone with the August security update and lots of us are experiencing major battery drain issues!) . I'd like to remain completely stock if at all possible. Any way to update with the Moto G5+ bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need bootloader open and yess you can flash safely it ks stock and battery is workimg awesome

LLegion said:
You need bootloader open and yess you can flash safely it ks stock and battery is workimg awesome
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I still a bit confused. The text I quoted says "bootloader stays MotoZ". If I install this update, as is, will my bootloader be MotoZ or remain Moto G5+?
Thanks...

I have the US version (retus), bootloader unlocked, nougat 7.0 with August patch (NPNS25. 137-93-18). Can I use this method safely? Thanks

I do not know what else to say...just flash as edpalined if phone breaks then unbrick it reading other tutos sorry pals but seems you are not reading enough

No risk no Win buddies

Hi, great write up! I like how your zip is a one stop shop. I used the included Moto G5+ toolkit to flash the stock Oreo zip which worked perfectly. I down graded to stock 7.1 from custom 9.0 however I'm noticing while on official Oreo whenever I reboot the device it will TWRP loop back into recovery and the only way to get back in the system is to go to bootloader and boot to system. Anyone else had this happen and fix it?
XT1867
OC.92 bootloader (unlocked)
TWRP 3.2.3.1

JohnSmith8786 said:
Hi, great write up! I like how your zip is a one stop shop. I used the included Moto G5+ toolkit to flash the stock Oreo zip which worked perfectly. I down graded to stock 7.1 from custom 9.0 however I'm noticing while on official Oreo whenever I reboot the device it will TWRP loop back into recovery and the only way to get back in the system is to go to bootloader and boot to system. Anyone else had this happen and fix it?
XT1867
OC.92 bootloader (unlocked)
TWRP 3.2.3.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do no flash from twrp but from runnimg the batch file oreo desde cero and it will flash the recobery as well to the oreo stock and thats it.buddie

Question Should I upgrade before rooting my Pixel 6 Pro?

Hey, I'm on 210817.036 (Nov. 2021) on an unlocked Pixel 6 Pro.
I was finally able to unlock it today from AT&T and wondering if I should update to the latest Android update before rooting.
Thanks for any advice!

I wouldn't bother, because OTAs take longer than flashing full firmware. i.e. As part of the rooting process, I would go ahead and flash the latest full firmware instead.
SDK Platform Tools
Get the Google USB Driver
Official Google Android Flash Tool

Oh OK! I didn't realize I could flash the full image of a higher version directly over an older version as part of this process. Thank you!
Oh and also I didn't know if patches above Nov. 2021 made things worse or not.

DevanteWeary said:
Oh OK! I didn't realize I could flash the full image of a higher version directly over an older version as part of this process. Thank you!
Oh and also I didn't know if patches above Nov. 2021 made things worse or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome!
I never had any issues at all, even with the fingerprint reader, from the end of October when I received mine through the second February patch. Hopefully, yours will be the same way.
At worst, once you unlock the bootloader if you have any issues with how things run, you can always flash any firmware you like. Be careful. You can also accidentally flash the wrong firmware. Coincidentally, I accidentally gave you a link to the official flashing site, which is good for staying stock unrooted, but if you're going to be rooted, I actually recommend the Pixel 6 Pro Factory Images. Just only ever use images that have Raven in the name as flashing the wrong thing can make it so that your phone would be unrecoverable.
Forgive me if I'm repeating anything you already know.