Develop Bugs

WTF!!!!!!!

I recently sold my Wildfire S, and because of that I wanted to wipe the phone out. So, I went to install a ROM, the same m1 mix I have been using for months, and I tried to install it again.
> Stays at HTC white screen and will forever if I let it.
> Tried installing another ROM to see if it was just corrupt. No go.
> I can get to the HBoot screen and move around but I can't get past HTC screen after installation is complete!!!
> Tried installing CWM again to see if it was an issue there, but now I get a "Install Fail" message because the ID is incorrect (I assume it has to do with the golf card)
I just want the damn thing to boot and work, I don't even care if it goes back to stock, I just need it to work. What are my options here? Any help would be great. An important factor I should mention is that I am on a Mac, and only have access to a Mac.
Thanks!

I have an evo so I'm not sure how things work on your phone but have you tried an ruu? It should help
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

Are you wiping data/factory reset, cache and dalvik? You need to do this in cwm

Yes, I always wipe both system and cache, as well as dalvik.
I will try a RUU, see where that gets me. Thanks. And if anyone else has suggestions please let me know!

I think you can only run an ruu under windows.
I could be wrong though.

I can't just have the ZIP on my SD Card and install it from there?

You can but I think it will give you the same issue.
Try it though, its worth a shot

I just want the easiest way to get this back to functioning. I don't need any of the data on the phone or the SD card. I just wanted it to work. Period.

Easiest and safest is ruu
Do you not know anyone that will let you run it on their windows machine?
It would take 10 mins topps and is almost guaranteed to get you back up and running.
By the way are you a GSM or cdma user?
Edit: is that rom overclocked by default? The reason I ask is a lot of people have been having issues like you when installing Rom's that are pre overclocked.
Check if there's a default clock speed kernel on his op

GSM Virgin Mobile Canada.

nootered said:
GSM Virgin Mobile Canada.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also your bootloader must be locked in order for the ruu to work.
{
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
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I am unlocked currently. I have been running it just fine with the m1xd ROM, all the stats are in my sig.
I just want this facking thing to function!!!!!!!!!!!! :O

nootered said:
I recently sold my Wildfire S, and because of that I wanted to wipe the phone out. So, I went to install a ROM, the same m1 mix I have been using for months, and I tried to install it again.
> Stays at HTC white screen and will forever if I let it.
> Tried installing another ROM to see if it was just corrupt. No go.
> I can get to the HBoot screen and move around but I can't get past HTC screen after installation is complete!!!
> Tried installing CWM again to see if it was an issue there, but now I get a "Install Fail" message because the ID is incorrect (I assume it has to do with the golf card)
I just want the damn thing to boot and work, I don't even care if it goes back to stock, I just need it to work. What are my options here? Any help would be great. An important factor I should mention is that I am on a Mac, and only have access to a Mac.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello ,
this will return your phone to stock state (means that you will no longer have CWM recovery and you will have to install it again after this. If unlocked with XTC Clip YOU WILL STAY S-OFF ,I didn`t tried it with device unlocked via HTC Dev)
STEP BY STEP instructions what you should do :
1. go to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1432474
2. download http://www.mediafire.com/?ksa9k8dmxexdkdo
3. follow the instructions from 1
4. click thanks button
credits to Gig11gs & Ping192
P.S. I`m not responsible if you do any damage to your device.

if you have a backup or something then flash it through hboot
or if you have a extracted zip file from an ruu (rom.zip file in c:/temp when you run the installer) then extract it to desktop and flash it through hboot(if the file name of system is system.yaffs2.img then change it to system.img , you require only two files boot.img and system.img so no need to extract everything just extract these two)
the codes for both are
(locate the adb files first.)
in my case i have copied fastboot file from tools folder of sdk on desktop and also adb and adbbin.dll on desktop.. if you also copy these files on desktop then run the following exact commands when you are on bootloader the fastboot option will be highligted press power buton to select it .. when you in fastboot menu connect phone to pc and then write these command in dos prompt (go to start menu , run then write cmd and press enter you will have a dos prompt open)
Code:
cd desktop
fastboot flash boot boot.img
fastboot flash system system.img
when done go to recovery and now do all format data , clear chache and dalvik chace your phone will be un rooted total stock
It worked for me.. credits to EOgan

Or you can go to this tutorial that will downgrade everything even hboot and radio at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1540952 and remember o thank me

Just a thought but have you wiped everything before flashing the ROM? I've had a weird experience once with pretty much the same issue (stuck on splash screen). Wiping everything (system, data, cache, boot AND SD Card) seemed to have resolved the issue. If you're using an already partitioned card, I'd recommend powering off after CWM flashing, unmounting the SD and then turning it on.
This should work actually (don't see a reason not to). Also, if you've modified the ROM.zip file in any way after downloading it, I'd advise flashing one which is freshly downloaded rather (would eliminate any user tweaks causing the issue).
PS. I've attached a flashable superwipe script which you can run before flashing the ROM. Let me know how it worked out for you.

[Q] Is my Gnex motherboard faulty?

Hi guys,
I can't flash any ROM/Kernel/whatever file via Bootloader/ODIN & Recovery. Worst still I can't access Recovery now.
My Nexus can goto Bootloader or ODIN mode but once i started to push files to it, it will just freeze. Please refer below for photos:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
BEFORE
AFTER
My Gnex was on the latest Paranoid ROM and Franco kernel.
Timeline:
1. It just went into bootloop when I am just browsing the internet.
2. Went to Recovery to clear cache. (that's my mistake, should have waited longer for my device to boot :crying
3. Still bootloop.
4. Went to recovery to flash stock kernel as I suspect it's kernel fault.
5. Kernel flash failed as it the operation was aborted and restarted. Bootloop again.
6. Done battery pull and went to Recovery to Restore my backup Nandroid.
7. Flashing halfway and it frooze.
8. Can't access Recovery anymore.
9. Tried to restore stock rom using ODIN. Failed at NandWrite as the screen froze as the above image.
10. Tried WugfFresh to restore back to stock rom and failed again as the screen froze.
So guys, can i conclude that my motherboard is the culprit here?
Thanks in advance.

Are you able to get into the bootloader? Have you tried manual fastboot flash of factory images?

ual4720 said:
Are you able to get into the bootloader? Have you tried manual fastboot flash of factory images?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Yes, I am able to get to bootloader.. the problem is when i start to do fastboot flash the factory images (using WugFresh).. the screen will start to freeze with double image as per my 1st post...
:crying:

d3vils said:
Hi,
Yes, I am able to get to bootloader.. the problem is when i start to do fastboot flash the factory images (using WugFresh).. the screen will start to freeze with double image as per my 1st post...
:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sound like there is a possibility of corrupt nand partition .... though that is usually unlikely unless you are an extreme flashaholic ... but still possible
but the guy above is suggesting use the fastboot commands manually rather than using the toolkit as it sometimes makes a difference
As in manually flash the recovery in the bootloader then see if you can get into recovery, but there are many avenues that you can take to see where you can get with this. There are many places that explain how to do this step by step on the web.
Also you should always try switching usb ports and usb cables as sometimes it will cause issues
I know i used the same usb port with the same usb cable to flash my n7 and gnex multiple time then one day it just stopped working switched the port and cable then it started working again.
But other than that I don't know much about is a possible JTAG but I really doubt that will help at all since the device does does get into bootloader and odin just freezes....

cmaag said:
Sound like there is a possibility of corrupt nand partition .... though that is usually unlikely unless you are an extreme flashaholic ... but still possible
but the guy above is suggesting use the fastboot commands manually rather than using the toolkit as it sometimes makes a difference
As in manually flash the recovery in the bootloader then see if you can get into recovery, but there are many avenues that you can take to see where you can get with this. There are many places that explain how to do this step by step on the web.
Also you should always try switching usb ports and usb cables as sometimes it will cause issues
I know i used the same usb port with the same usb cable to flash my n7 and gnex multiple time then one day it just stopped working switched the port and cable then it started working again.
But other than that I don't know much about is a possible JTAG but I really doubt that will help at all since the device does does get into bootloader and odin just freezes....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
corrupt nand partition... that's an interesting theory... will explore on the solutions on the manual fastboot commands...
thanks!!

[Q] stuck on splash screen, can't enter recovery or unlock boot loader

The title says it all.
It was fine yesterday, I came home today and it was stuck on the splash screen. Cant enter the recovery to factory reset, and it wont let me unlock the boot loader. But I can still access the fastboot mode. Any tips?

Anyone have any ideas what might be wrong?

fielddb said:
Anyone have any ideas what might be wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
use fastboot to restore a stock image.

This is what I get when I try to wipe the device.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Bump
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

Someone must know something

I saw this on one tablet. My guess is there is some emmc corruption. I was able to get around it by doing the factory flash over and over until it eventually went away, possibly because the emmc firmware locked some bad sectors out.

so my best bet would be to download the factory image from Google and spam the flash-all.bat file?

Looking back at my notes, the error was like yours and prevented unlock, which made flashing factory impossible. According to my notes I booted into recovery and wiped a few times.
Can you be more specific with the part about not being able to enter recovery?
What buttons did you press and what were the results?
Also have you rebooted your PC?

When I press enter recovery. The device goes to the Google splash screen and freezes.
And I have rebooted my PC, as well as trying two different PC with different OS's

fielddb said:
When I press enter recovery. The device goes to the Google splash screen and freezes.
And I have rebooted my PC, as well as trying two different PC with different OS's
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you try
fastboot erase userdata
fastboot erase cache
fastboot oem unlock

D:\Program Files\Android\android-sdk\platform-tools>fastboot erase cache
erasing 'cache'...
FAILED (status read failed (Too many links))
finished. total time: 411.474s
D:\Program Files\Android\android-sdk\platform-tools>fastboot erase userdata
erasing 'userdata'...
FAILED (status read failed (Too many links))
finished. total time: 541.982s
D:\Program Files\Android\android-sdk\platform-tools>fastboot oem unlock
...
(bootloader) Unlocking bootloader...
(bootloader) erasing userdata...
FAILED (status read failed (Too many links))
finished. total time: 315.871s
D:\Program Files\Android\android-sdk\platform-tools>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device gets locked up here

I think your emmc is corrupted, possibly affecting the partition info.
There isn't a whole lot of info on how to recover from this.

sfhub said:
I think your emmc is corrupted, possibly affecting the partition info.
There isn't a whole lot of info on how to recover from this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll just send it through RMA. Since it's not unlocked or rooted.

I just ran into the same issue. I think my memory is dead but I am in slightly deeper poop. I posted on another forum since XDA was down for a bit but here is what I wrote.
Hi everyone! My device just ran into some trouble and I couldn't find any other thread on here to help out so I am starting a new one. Here is what happened:
I was sitting on the computer and at the corner of my eye I saw my Nexus 7 (2013) reboot. After which it got stuck on the Google logo. Tried rebooting multiple times but still stuck at the logo (not the X screen but the screen that says Google in white letters). I had flashed TWRP so i decided to just factory reset the device. That was a no go as TWRP hangs on TEAMWIN screen.
At this point i said 'fuggit' and decided to restore factory images. I downloaded the two available images from google and both fail to restore as the flash-all throws up an error saying that it can't write to flash memory. I tried manually flashing with fastboot boot, recovery and system and got the same message.
Then I remembered that locking and unlocking the bootloader forces the factory reset so I decided to do that. While locking was successful I was unable to unlock the device as it tried to erase user data but it gets stuck with the message: 'erasing userdata...' and it doesn't go any further.
At this point I am out of ideas. I called a Google rep and tried to talk to a person but the representative I got was strictly working by the script and after I explained the issue I had (pretty much verbatim on whats above) she asked me if I had tried to reboot the device and then proceeded to ask me to reboot again. After we went through all the steps she was stumped and told me to contact manufacturer. Given that I had flashed a custom recovery and my bootloader is now locked and I can't flash stock recovery what are my options? Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I called Asus and spoke to a rep that seemed to know of this issue and told me that the memory module might be bad. I am sending the unit in to be serviced or replaced. I'll post when I have any more info on this.

h77ps said:
I called Asus and spoke to a rep that seemed to know of this issue and told me that the memory module might be bad. I am sending the unit in to be serviced or replaced. I'll post when I have any more info on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey I have the same issue here... did you fix the problem or what happened?

h77ps said:
I called Asus and spoke to a rep that seemed to know of this issue and told me that the memory module might be bad. I am sending the unit in to be serviced or replaced. I'll post when I have any more info on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the same problem! just made a "ticket" about it on their website. unable to call support bc they're closed at the moment. did they replace your device?

Same problems for me now
Yesterday, touchscreen stopped responding, then a reboot and now it is stuck @ "Google Logo"
I tried flashing the factory image without wipe, then with wipe, then with erase + update + wipe. But i had no luck. Device seems to be dead. I will try to get a new N7 from the shop I bought it.

I've been battling this same issue for a couple days. Weird, have had mine since last August(!) with no real problems. Rooted but pretty much running stock since day one. Suddenly started being unresponsive after flashing CleanRom (not that I blame ROM), was able to get to TWRP to restore a stock backup, but then again no touchscreen response. Tried to reboot and now all I ever get is GOOGLE screen with unlocked bootloader symbol. I can boot to bootloader screen and have tried every imaginable way to wipe and flash stock again to no avail. Can't boot to recovery, nothing. Its ridiculous, but I'm screwed so far. No way I can return it now...unless maybe I relock bootloader and ASUS will do something for me. Please keep us posted any of you who resolve this!

Screwed up Google Pixel need some help.

So things pretty much went from bad to worse. I downloaded Google's .img file and ran the Universal Android Utility and thought that by running it it would do what it says by putting a fresh image on the phone and relock everything down and I would have to start all over. Nope my phone gave me the middle finger and the Utility turned around and failed 98% on its way through saying you might want to reboot your phone and go back into bootloader mode and try again and that its possible it was the USB. Tried twice, but the 2nd time it left me with a suprise, it rebooted the phone stayed locked on the Google Splash screen forcing me to reboot in to bootloader mode then I noticed it locked the bootloader, and I cannot run the unlock bootloader the classic way or the new VZ one that I used in the first place and when an attempt is made it will say device not found, I am assuming after running the system image from google it turned off USB debugging again. So all my phone can do is go into bootloader mode or if I try to start it up it says "this device is corrupt and cannot be trusted, hit power to to pause boot" and then the phone shuts down. So Flar2 suggested that I create this QA for assistance and said people here would be able to help me out in here. "If you still have the bootloader, you can flash the factory images and it'll be fine". So if anyone can tell me how with instructions on how to specifically flash the factory image and has a link to it I would be most grateful and gladly tip. Google's site explanation on how to do is absolute trash. Its the Verizon Pixel XL
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"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

Im amusing you unlocked your bootloader already
Did you down load the updated tools from here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69239012&postcount=27
And the fresh factory image from
https://developers.google.com/android/images#marlin
I've seen a few people running into trouble flashing the factory image using the wrong ADB/Fastboot tools . I have not flashed the factory image yet so dont know the exact steps. the page with the image files directions say something about a flash-all script, I think you have to put all the file into the directory with the updated tools

@razor237 The bootloader was unlocked but after running the stock google image, the bootloader locked itself and I am confused as how to even flash anything when the bootloader is locked. The I did download from you second link, thats the image that started all this trouble. I keep getting device not found because I know usb debugging isnt turned on and I have no idea how to get around this.

Thats Odd , so when you boot into the bootloader and read all the text i think is says Device is UNLOCKED does yours say LOCKED?
Do you get the first boot screen saying your device cant be verified press power button to pause boot?
Did you use the other ADB/FastBoot tools ....the minimal tools are not the correct ones for image flash i think

I used the ADB/Fastboot tools you had linked. The bootloader does say LOCKED. If I try to just power on the device it will say "Your device is corrupt. It cant be trusted and may not work properly." So Flar2 said that as long as you can get into fastboot you are fine, but if you try and flash anything at all, everything kicks back saying FAILED because the bootloader is locked. In one way shape or form it says that I need to unlock the OEM. Apparently and I am guessing here, that Devs definitley know a way to push a factory image even when the bootloader is locked, I just dont know how.

So your bootloader is locked , you don't see the little unlock symbol on the Google screen ( or can't you even get this far ? ), if you don't even have an unlocked BL your royally screwed
Seems like your in RMA land now, but more interestingly that whatever ADB tookit you used does not support the new partitions of the new images for pixel this could very well be the root cause of the issue.
Frankly i'd not use any ADB tools to flash an image unless its downloaded via the SDK for that API and device considering this conundrum, but then hindsight is a wonderful thing

I was able to flash the Stock Image on my Pixel last night "Unlocked International Model"
My steps:
Download and install the Minimal ADB and Fastboot
Download the correct Image file from Google "from link above"
Extract the Image Zip file to my Minimal ADB and Fastboot directory
Put my phone into bootloader mode
Ran the "flash-all" command with Minimal ADB and Fastboot
Took like 5min for it to finish
Pretty weird how yours relocked bootloader. Mine didn't

Have you tried sideloading an ota with adb from https://developers.google.com/android/ota ?

Flash protocol/files because of bootloop : soft brick :(

What I've got:
T800 (wifi) updated by mfg. NOT rooted, all is stock (new in 2015 and I've never messed with the OS) and last version was marshmallow 6.0.1 (def marshmallow but version is strictly from memory).
Problem:
Couple of days ago, tab went into endless boot. It would show the android screen then samsung screen then it would load and all looked ok. This would last for maybe 30 seconds then rebooted into the android screen then samsung screen etc. : endless loop.
What I did:
Did some research and booted into recovery mode. Only cleared the cache then rebooted/or shutdown several times. Same looping. Tried cache clear 3-4x with no success. Once I got into the desktop, it lasted ~30 seconds and then booted me out again.
Alright, I bit the bullet and did a factory reset. Well, now it only gives me the android screen and then the samsung screen. Then cycles over again. I cannot get to the desktop anymore, at all.
Found a thread regarding looping but then the threads about upgrading to nougat by @Schischu --> https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-s/development/rom-android-7-nougat-t3449078 then part 2 https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-s/development/rom-t3498956 and then another one by someone else in regards to upgrading past 7.0 (which I'm not ready to do).
The instructions as posted
INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS
Cleaning System
This step is only necessary on the initial installation.
Reboot into recovery. Go into wipe menu. Select "Advanced Wipe". Check
Dalvik Cache
System
Cache
Data
and wipe them. Don't reboot just yet.
Install this ROM
Go into Install
Flash aosp-XXX.zip
On initial installation it is necessary to Reboot to Recovery. Don't skip this step!
(E:unknown command [log] messages can be ignored.)
Install Google Apps and SuperSU
Go into Install
Flash GAPPS.zip
Flash SuperSU.zip
Reboot to System
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a few questions as I am a TOTAL newb at this.
1)I've got the following files:
a) aosp_chagallwifi-userdebug-20161116.zip
b) open_gapps-arm-7.0-nano-20191002.zip
c) SuperSU-v2.82-20170528234214-TEST-1.zip
d)twrp_3.0.3-1_sm-t800_10217.tar
Are these the correct files? Do I need any more?
2)when I start the process, do I need to put the ZIP file on an SD card then insert that in the tab?
OR do I unzip the file and put that on the SD card?
OR can I just leave them in a folder (on PC desktop) and access them from there?
3)do I put ALL those files at the same time on the SD card or are they accessed one at a time?
Because I can get the android/samsung splash screen I assume I've still got the correct (ie 6.0) bootloader in place. Correct?
If thats true, then again (q.1): am I ready to start the process?
I figure I should do this to get nougat rather than going through the same procedure to just re-load marshmallow.
Any thing else I should know or have missed?

First some pessimism: when a factory reset doesn't work, it's very likely to be a hardware problem.
But let's assume flashing a new rom can do the trick.
I haven't played around with this tablet, or even another Samsung device, so I'm no expert either, but I think I can guide you a bit.
You'll have to start by installing a custom recovery like TWRP. The one you've found is very old, I would assume that you can find a newer one.
People talk about using a PC program called Odin for flashing recovery, maybe you can search for that. Or read here:
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/chagallwifi/install
where they use an equivalent program called Heimdall.

Thanks for the info and link.
Started to look at odin but not having any experience or sure of the files needed, I thought I'd wait and see who might respond.

Interesting times. Was able to find the correct file for odin to use. Appears to be successful but I don't know.
This screen shot is what I got after trying to install gapps.zip
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
It says chagall BUT that was b4 I was successful with odin. The error message is the same for Gapps flash. Also, same
error message for SUPERSU
The previously posted instruction said to reboot to recovery. I can only do that if I power down then back to recovery. I do have
an option "reboot to bootloader". Is that the same??

I should mention that I tried the AOSP file (first post) and odin wouldn't accept it. Per instructions I found for odin, the file should end .tar.md5 which I did find
T800XXU1CPK2.tar.md5
Both gave me the same error message though.
+++++++++++++++
I can't install twrp on the tab as its not accepting input so I'm installing android studio on my PC and trying that way.

Well, it must be something else. Although I couldnt load the nougat version with odin, I successfully loaded marshmallow ("PASS" in odin).
https://samfrew.com/download/Galaxy__Tab__S__10.5__-WiFi-__/3klk/XAC/T800XXS1CRI5/T800XAC1CRI5/
BUT I still have the endless boot loop. Plugging in the power cord shuts it off/puts into charging mode.
Do you think it's still a hardware issue?

If you've got an SD card installed, try removing that.
But really, you've reached the end of my knowledge, so let's hope someone else chips in.