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Does anyone know why there are only eight devices (seven phones and the Nexus 7) that support Google wallet? Shouldn't any phone with NFC be able to support the ability to pay anywhere? I really wish there was a way to contact Google about this, I want to know why my HTC One X isn't supported by Google Wallet. It isn't even the AT&T one, so it can't be AT&T requesting it doesn't work. Thoughts?
I'm guessing NFC Secure Element.
Secure Element
j2cool2012 said:
I'm guessing NFC Secure Element.
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Click to collapse
That's probably correct. Having the keys to the secure element gives you control over what goes in there. Google (via First Data) controls the keys to their hardware secure element (attached to the NFC controller, as opposed to a SIM/UICC secure element attached to the baseband controller). This means they don't need carrier approval to push payment applets to their secure element (the carriers only control the keys to the SIM/UICC SE).
I thought that this new update didn't need the secure element because of the cloud wallet stuff.
Sent from my HTC One X
mibikin said:
I thought that this new update didn't need the secure element because of the cloud wallet stuff.
Sent from my HTC One X
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Click to collapse
The secure element is still necessary for card emulation. The SE connects directly to the NFC controller and allows the device to "emulate" a payment card. Also, there is one CC # for all of your credit cards in the "cloud" Google Wallet. That number is transmitted via NFC to the PoS terminal, and then Google magically knows which of your credit cards to charge.
__multiplex said:
The secure element is still necessary for card emulation. The SE connects directly to the NFC controller and allows the device to "emulate" a payment card. Also, there is one CC # for all of your credit cards in the "cloud" Google Wallet. That number is transmitted via NFC to the PoS terminal, and then Google magically knows which of your credit cards to charge.
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So what about those SD cards that come with NFC?
In theory if they were to be deployed in the market, they could not use Google Wallet, due to the "secure element" missing?
I dont see many uses to NFC but this and data sharing. If you cut half of the "important" uses, the technology is kinda DOA?
mibikin said:
Does anyone know why there are only eight devices (seven phones and the Nexus 7) that support Google wallet? Shouldn't any phone with NFC be able to support the ability to pay anywhere? I really wish there was a way to contact Google about this, I want to know why my HTC One X isn't supported by Google Wallet. It isn't even the AT&T one, so it can't be AT&T requesting it doesn't work. Thoughts?
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Click to collapse
You can Install and use Google Wallet on any phone with my original guide here! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1810282 Best of luck.
HeroKhar said:
You can Install and use Google Wallet on any phone with my original guide here! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1810282 Best of luck.
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Click to collapse
I thanked you, but I haven't rooted my One X yet, so I couldn't actually try this. Thanks for the response though.
Sent from my HTC One X
Shadow89 said:
So what about those SD cards that come with NFC?
In theory if they were to be deployed in the market, they could not use Google Wallet, due to the "secure element" missing?
I dont see many uses to NFC but this and data sharing. If you cut half of the "important" uses, the technology is kinda DOA?
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Click to collapse
The SD cards are an NFC antenna, secure element, and some standard storage, all wrapped into one. See: (apparently I can't post links, but look around for IN2PAY_MICROSD_V2.1.pdf)
I still think the Google Wallet issue comes down to who has the keys to the Secure Element. Google needs to load one card into the SE to do card emulation. I could be wrong here, but I'm assuming that if they don't have the keys (or permission from whoever has they keys), they can't load their initial card in there and Wallet can't be installed on the device.
mibikin said:
I thanked you, but I haven't rooted my One X yet, so I couldn't actually try this. Thanks for the response though.
Sent from my HTC One X
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Click to collapse
Haha, anytime I glad I could help you! Thanks for the +Thanks also, I greatly appreciate it!
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium HD app
HeroKhar said:
You can Install and use Google Wallet on any phone with my original guide here! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1810282 Best of luck.
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Click to collapse
Sadly, it doesnt't work on all devices. Since The att One X is missing the secure library files needed to run Google Wallet, it stays stuck on the activating account screen...trust me, I have tried 4 different methods and none have worked...
HTCFAN0923 said:
Sadly, it doesnt't work on all devices. Since The att One X is missing the secure library files needed to run Google Wallet, it stays stuck on the activating account screen...trust me, I have tried 4 different methods and none have worked...
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Oh Okay, thatnks for the reply! I can add that to my Guide! +Thanked you too
HTCFAN0923 said:
Sadly, it doesnt't work on all devices. Since The att One X is missing the secure library files needed to run Google Wallet, it stays stuck on the activating account screen...trust me, I have tried 4 different methods and none have worked...
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That isn't my issue. I have the international One X, not the AT&T one.
Sent from my HTC One X
what are the chances of getting a secured element emulator?
waiters said:
what are the chances of getting a secured element emulator?
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Very little unfortunately :'(
Sent from my Xoom using xda app-developers app
HeroKhar said:
Very little unfortunately :'(
Sent from my Xoom using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
Someone had a patch to emulate a secure element ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1832499 )- the problem is we cannot emulate the secure element *as programmed by Google*, which Wallet expects.
The problem is:
To use the SE of devices that support GW, you need Google's keys
To use Google's SE cardlets on a device, the SE must be programmed with the correct keys
Entropy512 said:
Someone had a patch to emulate a secure element ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1832499 )- the problem is we cannot emulate the secure element *as programmed by Google*, which Wallet expects.
The problem is:
To use the SE of devices that support GW, you need Google's keys
To use Google's SE cardlets on a device, the SE must be programmed with the correct keys
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Click to collapse
Exactly, Google DOESN'T want Wallet on other devices and variants, but there may be a Dev who can extract the keys from a compatible device...
Sent from my Nexus S using xda app-developers app
Is Google doesn't want it on all android devices and will try to keep it to Google branded phones only, it will fail.
Soon ios will have the passbook, carriers will have isis, and Google will have Wallet but only on 3 devices??
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
I want Google Wallet on my S3... Google should create or addapt Google Wallet forma all devices...
Enviado desde Tapatalk 2
I'm trying to create a method to get wallet working on the htc incredible 4g on verizon. But it gets stuck on the adding account screen. What exactly is the secure element? Is there any way to get it on a phone that's missing it? Is there anything I can do? Thanks
From http://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html#44-hce
New NFC capabilities through Host Card Emulation
Android 4.4 introduces new platform support for secure NFC-based transactions through Host Card Emulation (HCE), for payments, loyalty programs, card access, transit passes, and other custom services. With HCE, any app on an Android device can emulate an NFC smart card, letting users tap to initiate transactions with an app of their choice — no provisioned secure element (SE) in the device is needed. Apps can also use a new Reader Mode to act as readers for HCE cards and other NFC-based transactions.
Android HCE emulates ISO/IEC 7816 based smart cards that use the contactless ISO/IEC 14443-4 (ISO-DEP) protocol for transmission. These cards are used by many systems today, including the existing EMVCO NFC payment infrastructure. Android uses Application Identifiers (AIDs) as defined in ISO/IEC 7816-4 as the basis for routing transactions to the correct Android applications.
Apps declare the AIDs they support in their manifest files, along with a category identifier that indicates the type of support available (for example, "payments"). In cases where multiple apps support the same AID in the same category, Android displays a dialog that lets the user choose which app to use.
When the user taps to pay at a point-of-sale terminal, the system extracts the preferred AID and routes the transaction to the correct application. The app reads the transaction data and can use any local or network-based services to verify and then complete the transaction.
Android HCE requires an NFC controller to be present in the device. Support for HCE is already widely available on most NFC controllers, which offer dynamic support for both HCE and SE transactions. Android 4.4 devices that support NFC will include Tap & Pay for easy payments using HCE.
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Shouldn't this mean devices like the nexus 7 (2013) without a secure element should be able use Google wallet for NFC payments? I heard somewhere that the nexus 5 uses the same chip as the nexus 7 (2013)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Big_Red77 said:
Shouldn't this mean devices like the nexus 7 (2013) without a secure element should be able use Google wallet for NFC payments? I heard somewhere that the nexus 5 uses the same chip as the nexus 7 (2013)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
It does indeed.
What about the AT&T HTC One?
From some general research I did earlier this year with NFC being used for contactless payments, there were three different means of implementation; a) the Secure Element on the NFC chipset itself (Google Wallet), b) The secure element on the SIM card with a SWP link (used by ISIS Mobile wallet) and c) Secure Element Emulation via the cloud (Simply Tapp)
for a) the problem dealt with the fact that for some reason(s) three of the four major United States Cellular Carriers (AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon) would not provide Google with the required TSM (Trusted service management) credentials to access the protected memory of the secure element. It was suggested that because of the time invested prior to actual availability, the above carriers elected to adopt their own standard to implementing the secure element.
for b) The sim cards used by GSM carriers were developed with the secure element onboard. The problem that was experienced dealt with the limited availability of special sim cards (only two markets had them, Salt Lake City and Austin) as well as the poor support and backbone to the system, leaving most users calling foul on the carriers abuse of power (a personal attempt at contacting the FTC about a possible obligopy resulted in that is not).
the concept of c) was approached by Doug Yeager and Ted Fifelski, both of whom are more than knowledgeable with the POS and NFC markets. Instead of requiring the secure element hardware on the device, emulate it by using the cloud. As previously mentioned the libraries in the Android operating system did not include smart/host card emulation. Doug Yeager then created and had merged into the CyangenmodRom builds 9.1 + the open source IsoPCDA and IsoPCDB libraries.
Looking up on NFC World, Google collaborated with Simply Tapp to officially bring HCE into the 4.4 http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/10/31/326619/google-gets-around-carriers-host-card-emulation-nfc-payments/
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
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Click to collapse
This is what I was wondering as well... tried endlessly searching apps or even figuring out how to do it on my own.Everything was a dead-end, always returning to that damned secure element. Does anyone know if there's any hope?
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
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Click to collapse
+1 for TJ's question, I'd love to ditch the corporate RFID tag and use my phone. I mean if it's really going to be a wallet replacement, that's one of the things in my wallet.
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
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Click to collapse
Ya I'm wondering that same. My senior project is due in 3 weeks and I build a "door unlocker" based off NFC tags. The NFC shield on an Arduino reads a tag and unlocks a door. I have a Nexus 5 and would love to be able to emulate a tag and use it to open a door.
Android 4.4 NFC HCE demo app
Please have a look at this article: blog.opendatalab.de/hack/2013/11/07/android-host-card-emulation-with-acr122/
An Android sample project that use NFC HCE is available here: github.com/grundid/host-card-emulation-sample
Any updates for this? Really looking forward to using my phone as a replacement for transit cards.
Bump? I would really like an emulation app.
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Host card emulation is not to emulate NFC tags but make payment through NFC possible with Google Wallet even without a secure element chip. The devices technically could be a NFC tags (think about it, android beam can go both directions so the device beams to the other devices which acts KIND of like a tag).
NFC tags are cheap anyway so what's the need to try to emulate them? You can program them from the phone.
tiny4579 said:
Host card emulation is not to emulate NFC tags but make payment through NFC possible with Google Wallet even without a secure element chip. The devices technically could be a NFC tags (think about it, android beam can go both directions so the device beams to the other devices which acts KIND of like a tag).
NFC tags are cheap anyway so what's the need to try to emulate them? You can program them from the phone.
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I thought hce allows for the phone to emulate a NFC card, for example, a transit card.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Sfkn2 said:
I thought hce allows for the phone to emulate a NFC card, for example, a transit card.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
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It's for payments strictly. It emulates a payment card and I think the android implementation is strictly for Google wallet. I'm not sure the transit systems would use Google wallet or not. Maybe they do.
tiny4579 said:
It's for payments strictly. It emulates a payment card and I think the android implementation is strictly for Google wallet. I'm not sure the transit systems would use Google wallet or not. Maybe they do.
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Nope, KitKat "supports emulating cards that are based on the NFC-Forum ISO-DEP specification (based on ISO/IEC 14443-4)...". This is a standard for Identification cards used for payments but also could be used for other use cases. Android 4.4 also supports different HCE service groups "Category_PAYMENT" and "Category_OTHER" , so I wouldn´t say it´s strictly for payments! (Although, I think, your right, that´s the main purpose Google had in mind by implementing this emulation feature ...)
Doesn´t mean that you could "clone" your (or your neighbors) company badge or transit card and use your android device instead, but that´s a completely different story.
-Psycho- said:
This is what I was wondering as well... tried endlessly searching apps or even figuring out how to do it on my own.Everything was a dead-end, always returning to that damned secure element. Does anyone know if there's any hope?
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Click to collapse
No hope, secure elements are secure by design. You can't download them wihout hacking the card. In most cases, this is just as complicated as hacking into someone's bank account.
Sorry but that is the reason why we trust these cards in the first place.
ascsa said:
Doesn´t mean that you could "clone" your (or your neighbors) company badge or transit card and use your android device instead, but that´s a completely different story.
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Click to collapse
Although that would be awesome..
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Stupid question, but if the secure element isn't necessary anmyore, is Google wallet now secure enough?
I mean, Google kind of used this for a reason I presume before, I know why they got rid of it, but is this risky or not? Because I haven't heard people discussing this side yet.
Also, what other payment services may work with this once they support it (if ever), ISIS? Paypass?
Axe Homeless said:
Stupid question, but if the secure element isn't necessary anmyore, is Google wallet now secure enough?
I mean, Google kind of used this for a reason I presume before, I know why they got rid of it, but is this risky or not? Because I haven't heard people discussing this side yet.
Also, what other payment services may work with this once they support it (if ever), ISIS? Paypass?
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Click to collapse
A few months ago, a Google patent application surfaced that explains some details of how they did it.
1) Previously, PIN entry to GW did not require a network connection - it only unlocked the SE. Now, you cannot unlock Wallet without a network connection. Also, PINs used to be device-specific but are now common to all devices on your Wallet account
2) The patent application references creation of a virtual card that is geographically and time-restricted
So pretty much, I think what happens is that when you unlock Wallet now, it creates a "virtual" card that is restricted to the unlock timeout in time and to some sort of geographic limitations.
I installed GW app, but in its settings it says "Tap and Pay Not available" ... Why is this? How can I pay with NFC using this phone through GW?
raddatt said:
I installed GW app, but in its settings it says "Tap and Pay Not available" ... Why is this? How can I pay with NFC using this phone through GW?
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Click to collapse
After researching a lot, I've found some pertinent info:
Our N1 uses the PN544 NFC chip made by NXP. PN544 doesn't have Host Card Emulation (HCE) support right now (at least not for AOSP Roms). HCE is the technology used by Google Wallet to Tap and Pay.
Some hardcore devs are attempting to bring HCE to AOSP Roms. Also, there's been some unsubstantiated rumors of HCE being worked on by the Google Wallet team, possibly may be seen with 4.4.3. Fingers crossed!
Hi,
I'm trying to use the nfc contactless payment... The app of my bank says that the installed OpenMobile API is out of date.. it's calling for a version between 2.0-4.0.. the Services used is called "SmartcardService" and says version L310.0.13
anyone of you guys has a clue about that? Can I upgrade it on my own? - Is it maybe just a typo in the version number?
Greeings,
Fold
anyone?
Hi, I'm having the same issue. I came across http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-3/how-to/openmobile-api-maybe-devs-to-include-t3414801 that tells a way to upgrade it, but that didn't work for me. Open Mobile API got upgraded, but that still doesn't work with my app. It's worth a try after a proper backup.
Edit: sorry, I just saw, that you already replied on that thread, but maybe new visitors will still find it useful.
I have the Fold with the Chinese ROM, but I need the Google services support for some of my apps (German Corona app and a phone app - they need some special Google/Apple functions for Bluetooth and the Google notifications). Does anybody have a step-by-step guide to get the Google services including all GAPPs working on the Fold? There is so much outdated (and some maybe even wrong) information on the Internet that such a guide would set the record straight for MiUI 12.5...Thanks!
All google services are already baked into the mi mix fold.
Go into their own app store app, search for Google play, it'll come up as an update. After that it'll show up in the app drawer, sign in and use like any Google android phone
Thanks! I'll try it.
oherzog said:
Thanks! I'll try it.
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Click to collapse
Worked?
It worked mostly, but two weak items are left:
1. I didn't get Google maps work with the Mi Fit app in Germany - it just doesn't display the map but tracks the run.
2. The German Corona Warn App doesn't connect to the corresponding Google services:
com.google.android.gms.common.api.ApiException: 17: API: Nearby.EXPOSURE_NOTIFICATION_API is not available on this device. Connection failed with: ConnectionResult{statusCode=UNKNOWN_ERROR_CODE(39501), resolution=null, message=null}
com.google.android.gms.common.api.ApiException: 17: API: Nearby.EXPOSURE_NOTIFICATION_API is not available on this device. Connection failed with: ConnectionResult{statusCode=UNKNOWN_ERROR_CODE(39501), resolution=null, message=null}
at androidx.transition.ViewGroupUtilsApi14.trySetResultOrApiException(ViewGroupUtilsApi14.java:3)
at com.google.android.gms.internal.nearby.zzan.onResult(com.google.android.gms[email protected]@18.0.3:1)
at com.google.android.gms.common.api.internal.IStatusCallback$Stub.zaa(com.google.android.gms[email protected]@17.5.0:2)
at com.google.android.gms.internal.base.zaa.onTransact(com.google.android.gms[email protected]@17.5.0:3)
at android.os.Binder.execTransactInternal(Binder.java:1162)
at android.os.Binder.execTransact(Binder.java:1126)
Any hints would be welcome!
Otherwise, the Fold works great!