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one sided promise from microsoft (re:updates) is pure fail. all parties should be brought onboard and each held accountable
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-partners-with-oems-and-carriers-to-guarantee-android-upda/
Wow, I saw AT&T on the picture, I must relook at it.
It will never happen because all the OEM's and carriers involved seem to want Microsoft and WP7 to fail.
Look at the Zune hardware. My brother had a Zune since Day 1 and he got every update and new release from Microsoft, no problem. I don't think it's a Microsoft issue, I think it's a carrier issue.
Well, that announcement says Android phones will be supported for 18 months. It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
vangrieg said:
It doesn't say updates will be instant, OEMs won't take weeks to develop ROMs and carriers won't take weeks "testing" them.
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Click to collapse
if you read the live update, it says:
"12:34PM New guidelines! Man, this is going to be huge. Google's laying out a timeline for how long it'll take a device to get updated once a new build is let loose, as well as how long it'll be updated beyond that."
Google and Apple are both more powerful and influential in the mobile space than Microsoft right now. I don't think Microsoft is really in the position to dictate anything to anyone right now.
And what exactly are these guidelines? Three days for a new ROM from HTC with a new Sense on it?
I mean, this is great news for Android, but there's nothing so far that says anything real about what the update experience will be.
I know it's trendy to bash MS, but WP7 has seen four updates already. And the last one was cumulative, by the way.
I don't know, I have been receiving my updates when MS release them; other than the first one that took one or two weeks every other have been the same day (but I’m not in USA).
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-clarifies-18-month-android-upgrade-program-details-far-f/
When pressed about how long it'd take updates to flow to phones after given the thumbs-up by Google itself, there's no hard news to report. In fact, the details there are still being hashed out.
To quote Google, "It's a logistics problem." We can only imagine. Trying to get every Android partner to follow a timeline for releases has to be a complete and utter nightmare, but the company seems certain that these stipulations won't cripple anyone's ability to innovate on their skins (or have too little time to make the needed changes).
We would've loved to hear a specific figure that we could start holding phone manufacturers to, but alas, it isn't to be. The only hard number thrown out today is 18 months. That's how long future hardware will be in the support cycle (at least, anyway), so you'll "soon" be able to count on your next Android device receiving all applicable updates for 1.5 years after purchase.
The guideline is yet to be hashed out. That's why they practically included everyone in the group to come up with a guide line. The only reason AT&T is included is because AT&T wants to make sure the final guideline doesn't put it in the spotlight again, like must release updates within 6 months of Google release That will never happen. I'm pretty sure the final guide line will be 12-month (from Google release the code and you see it on your phone), i.e. totally worthless and waste of time. Android is an open source platform, Google has no say about who can use the code and when they need to release the updates. The only thing Google can do is withheld Android market support.
And if they take longer than the set time frame? What happens?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Nothing would happen. It is called guide line, not rules.
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
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munkeyphyst said:
Well then, that'll really be a game changer then... /sarcasm
Where is the news in this?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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There is none. FWIW MS has "guidelines" on updates as well, i.e. that carriers cannot block two consecutive updates.
-R
I smell a publicity fail from Google.
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
Also, it depends on whether the device's hardware supports the update and knowing Andorid manufacturers like HTC they'll just put a ROM chip too small to take any major updates in the phone, etc. Your Evo 4.0 can't support Sense 3.0? Good luck getting that update! HTC will not "downgrade" an Evo 4G from Sense 2 to Stock Android...
They are still trying to get the details panned out, but I'm not getting my hopes up. There are still phones out there sending SMS/MMS to the wrong contacts because the manufacturers don't even prioritize security updates for their phones (which, IMO, is a MUCH bigger issues than even large feature updates...). Android is a huge, hot mess when it comes to updates.
bill.g said:
Well I have a wp7 and an android phone, I have to say there is no reason the OEMs cannot make their addtions such as the sense UI to be a replacement, that can be removed and updated seperately from the core OS. If they did that then it would allow for quicker updates.
In the past there were almost no updates done to phone other than small ones that were carrier specific (ie settings or patches) but major upgrades did not really happen. I would not be surprised if eventually updates to the phones to start costing money, much like a new version of OS X or a new version of windows does on a PC.
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Are you a developer?
Those aren't themes. They're deep customizations many of which have access to parts of the system that would require a "normal" app to run with Super User permissions. You can't release much of that as an App in the marketplace... Not to mention, they would just end up getting pirated by everyone and at worse breaking a bunch of phones that weren't designed to run the software (freezing them, reboot loops, making them unbootable, etc.).
There's also the issue of drivers, because different manufacturers use dispirate hardware configurations with screens, SoCs, cameras, etc. from dispirate sources. Getting all of that to work on an update is MUCH harder than getting the skins functional.
You people (generally speaking) really think the skins are the issue? They are not. Android (specifically, Linux) is the issue. The skins are easy as hell. The latest Epic 4G Gingerbread Leak has a working TouchWiz, but most of the phone/smartphone functionality is broken. That's a great example on just how easy porting the skins form version to version is. Skins typically aren't that sensitive to kernal ABI changes - device drivers ARE.
The fact that Android is based on Linux by default ensures that updates will have issues because it inherits many of Linux's issues. A Windows Mobile 6.0 update could in many cases just reuse drivers developed for Windows Mobile 5.0the same way Windows 7 can use many Windows XP drivers without any issues.
Linux doesn't have this type of backward/forward compatibility. That's why those leaked updates often have close to nothing working on them (No Wifi, no calls, no this, no that, etc.). Linux doesn't have a stable ABI for driver developers. Kernel updates can break any and/or everything. This means that the turnaround for updates is much longer than it will be for something like WP7.
The biggest issue with Android is the fact that Manufacturers and Carriers do not even prioritize critical security updates, and Google seems intent on not patching and quickly propagating patches for exploits used to root devices. Which is nice for tinkerers, but can be an issue when a malware uses that exploit on someone's device to perform malicious actions...
N8ter said:
It's not a timeline.
It's just enforcing devices to be supported for 18 months.
It doesn't mean the manufacturers/carriers will have x amount of days after an android update to release said update. They can still release a phone with FroYo, and take 17 months to release gingerbread for that phone.
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I'm pretty sure they said timely updates. Which means they are going to work out some sort of guidelines on how long it takes for the updates to get pushed out. What that actually is remains to be seen though.
So we all know Nodo was a bit of a mess and a lot of people got the update at different times, some had to wait months.
What confuses me is that with the Mango beta it works on any device, regardless of country or carrier... So why does the official updates need to be sent to the carrier first for them to release?
Why can't Microsoft just release 1 update, like they did for the beta, to go on all phones at the same time.. Or is that what they plan on doing this time round?
Because the carriers have MS by the short and curlies.
The carriers do (semi-legitimately) need to test the phone + OS combo on their networks. This is, generally, for the customers' benefit.
The beta was delivered direct from MS because it was a beta. There are probably clauses in contracts allowing this.
Also although the beta works on our devices, it still has to go to the hardware manufacturers, even before the carriers, to build/improve the custom drivers. This hopefully should improve the experience for end users (even further than what we've currently got).
Casey
The reason the OEMs and carriers need it is that when something goes wrong or when people ask about something, they wouldn't have any time to prepare for it - which they do now. Learn about new features and such.
Well, WP7 will be officially released in my region with Mango, and one of my largest fear is that people wont reject it because there is about 10 good apps in total, due to developers give about zero ****s about the new regions.
OndraSter said:
The reason the OEMs and carriers need it is that when something goes wrong or when people ask about something, they wouldn't have any time to prepare for it - which they do now. Learn about new features and such.
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In which case it would have been better for OEMs and Carriers to work with the betas like normal developers have so that when the official release is ready there's not much delay... I hope this has been the case.
Im here at work and got me thinking bout the rumoured news bout Google releasing the JB 5.0 sometime this fall or workingnto release Q1 2013. News from AndroidPolice...too lazy to link it.
Im just thinking that these updates are happening way to fast. Some phones are yet to receive their ICS and yet JB is just around the corner. Also, new phones with quad will be released early/late spring..? with ICS and for some they will have to wait for another good amount of time for JB. We know that Samsung etc are never on the dot when releasing updates.
I kinda miss the days of Windows OS when they actually make you wait 2/3yrs for a new OS release. Just kinda makes it worthwhile.
All im saying is, that Google should wait until the supported phones have been updated to ICS and give them time to enjoy it. For others they will have to spend an extra money to buy the latest phone with ICS. Not really fair.
Ok im goin back to working...lol...sorta
Until we start seeing apps that don't work on somewhat new OS's I don't see it as a problem. For the most part, apps being put out now are still compatible with Froyo so why should people on Froyo care? Yes it sucks to get a new phone and not have the newest OS but what do you expect Google to do? With apple releasing yearly releases as well they need to keep up.
Google has been releasing yearly OS updates for a while now. Why the concern all of a sudden? Also, probably not worth getting worked up over unreliable rumors.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
I think one release a year is fair. With all thats evolving in the mobile landscape, an update interval any more than that will risk falling behind the competition.
A yearly update is not just to change things around for the heck of it, but to aim to improve the user experience. If the Android team has good work ready to be released, I don't see why they should hold it back because manufacturers can't get their act together. This is why we have the Nexus phones.
I completely disagree. Google's yearly release cycle means that they are always working on making Android better. Since a new major OS release comes every year, I am guaranteed to have a modern phone with a modern OS every year if I continue buying Nexii.
In my opinion it is certainly a good thing.
I dont agree with this. Wait 2-3 years for new features and fixes while other OS's (iOS and Windows Mobile) continue to have yearly updates? No thank you.
For the majority of people, whatever current Android they are on is more than enough for them. If you want to stay on the bleeding edge, you get a Nexus device.
JB probably will not be as big as an upgrade as it was from GB to Honeycomb or ICS.
How is Fall of 2012 or Q1 of 2013 too fast? It's not even spring yet. ICS was announced and released in November, I think. That is a full year, at least, in between OS changes. I think that 1 year in between OS updates is perfect. Why would you want to be stuck on an old OS when new, better features are always a good thing?
You're pretty much saying that you wouldn't mind still being on Eclair or Froyo right now. I don't know about you, but I think ICS is light years ahead of both of those OS's.
Hardware obsolescence will eventually halt fragmentation on its own. Most consumers roll over their device at the end of a contract anyway, that's just 2 years or 3 in some markets. Anyone that holds on to a phone for over three years either doesn't care about bleeding edge updates, they're happy with an old device anyway, or they've extended their device's life via custom roms. In other words, If it is January 2013 and you're still on Eclair then a) you probably don't know what 'Eclair's is and b) you're not losing any sleep over being excluded from updates.
I don't see a huge problem with the android market being 'fragmented' over 2-3 versions. It's all just optics: Android haters trumpet the fragmented platform while advocates brush it off. It shouldn't halt or slow down progress, and if it does then Google risks stagnation.
Its not that Google is going too fast, its that the other manufacturers are going too slow. 1 OS release a year shouldn't be a crazy schedule.
Am I reading this right - so you think technology advances too fast and wants it to slow down because YOU can't catch up?!
OP, please tell me that you are kidding.
Edit: I'm not flaming but simply shocked by the logic and argument.
Yes please get back to work already, sorry but I don't agree with your opinion, blame the carrier's and manufacturers as well.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
ragnarokx said:
Google has been releasing yearly OS updates for a while now. Why the concern all of a sudden? Also, probably not worth getting worked up over unreliable rumors.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
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The problem with these "hard and fast" Android updates is that is accelerates device obsolescence. Of the hundreds of Android handsets out there, only a dozen or two actually get these new OS'.
This isn't a problem you see in iOS devices, but it's certainly an issue with android.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
EP2008 said:
The problem with these "hard and fast" Android updates is that is accelerates device obsolescence.
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Obsolescence? So which Gingerbread device can't make calls/text/access the market/use apps after ICS is released?
Just because some other devices do things faster/different doesn't make your device obsolete. And please, look up the word 'obsolete' first before tossing it around.
I think I partially understand and agree with OP's point.
It is not the yearly update that causes concerns, but it is the rate that creates so much hardware junk that counts.
For example, Apple's 3GS still can use recent iOS, at least it is upgradable, though you wont enjoy the speed or new features etc, but you still can use your old hardware with new iOS.
For Android, one year later you phone/tablet may already be "NOT ABLE TO UPGRADE TO NEW OS" , ICS, in this case.
Too many Device Spamming there. I think it is not Google's issue, it is , somewhat the Manufacturer's issue.
Because Nexus S still able to upgrade to ICS, Nexus One , sorts of (please correct me if I am wrong!)
But thanks to million android phone manufacturers, they locked down the system and make it proprietary in certain sense. and not upgradable to future OS because they don't know their current "Feature" will or will not be shoot down by Google's future updates.
Im actually coming from the Atrix which had an announcement from Motorola that ICS release would be sometime Q3 but that would depends if there is a delay or not. I decided to put myself into a contract and decided to get the Gnex since it had the latest offering of ICS. The Atrix ICS is still running on beta.
I agree that yearly updates will improve the user experience/fixes but then again we are but a small community here on XDA that are keen into rom/mod our phones. That is even if we have Devs willing to give time and effort in regards to leak updates. If ever we dont then we are sol. Im just thinking more about the general public who has no idea or would careless bout having a modified rom but are just interested in receiving the updates in a timely manner. Also, wat if ur current phone will not be included for any more OS release? the easiest way would be to purchase the latest and up to date phones.
If lets say that my collegues are getting the ICS for their SGS2 this Q2/Q3. Then JB will be released Q4/Q1 2013. The Google phones will be updated by either official or leak. Also i cant find the link but there was a stat released i few weeks ago stating that there are only 1% or 2% of phones that are currently running ICS.
Its frustrating for an average user having to sit next to a person with the latest OS release and wondering when they will get theirs.
For me, since im on ICS i dont care but when i was using my Atrix i had to settle for a mediocre beta ICS. :banghead:
@jiwengang - Thank you! Im glad someone here at least partially gets my point.
...now to get back to doin some real work.
I agree with others in that it's the hardware manufactures that are the problem, not Google.
1 year OS updates are fine. We just don't need 20 damn variations of the same phone from the same manufacture within that same year. The manufactures can't support all the different hardware configurations they are spewing out in a timely manner, so it takes ages to get updates, if you get them at all.
Dang manufactures need to focus more, stop trying to one up each other every 2 weeks. And support what they release more timely.
MilkPudding said:
Am I reading this right - so you think technology advances too fast and wants it to slow down because YOU can't catch up?!
OP, please tell me that you are kidding.
Edit: I'm not flaming but simply shocked by the logic and argument.
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Not everyone has either the same knowledge or bottomless pocket that they can sport the latest and greatest phones. I still have a friend who I recently just flashed his SE X10 with GB 2.3.5. Though SE mentioned bout an ICS upgrade sometime in the future of who knows when.
Similar to the PC industry. A gamer will build a pc gamer rig with i9/FX with crossfire/sli etc...If you look at it now, the hardware has reached its peak. You can pretty much play any games these software companies throw at you. It is now the software ie: Games, trying to play catch up and entice gamers with more 'extra' dazzling features or effects to maximize ur hardwares potential. Back then, it was the other way around
If u use a console then its a different story.
Yes, it is shocking. Not everything works as smoothly as butter like ICS.
Yearly release / change of Android OS makes really senses to me.
I don't think I can wait for 2-3 years for an update / release.
that's why I got a nexus!
sent from my Nexus Prime
You are really losing focus as to what Jellybean actually is. All it is is an updated Ice Cream Sandwich. Yes, ICS was a huge jump from Gingerbread, because of the tablet/phone unification so there were major changes with the UI. That probably won't be the case with the next update. But if you remember the jump from froyo to gingerbread that wasn't a big deal huh? Googles cute little names cause too much confusion with consumers that don't understand software updates. 4.0.1, 4.0.2, 4.0.3...just updates.
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
hurricurry said:
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
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Multi touch bug is a complete killer. Really can't wait for 4.0.4 AOSP hopefully soon
The news is that not everyone is on 4.0.2 yet. If you can't wait then grab a custom rom, otherwise a whole lot of patience may be necessary.
virtualcertainty said:
The news is that not everyone is on 4.0.2 yet. If you can't wait then grab a custom rom, otherwise a whole lot of patience may be necessary.
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Totally true.
Google is not really considering Galaxy Nexus a Nexus device it seems. Some other systems have gotten newer version of Android already.
At least my Galaxy Nexus runs bloatware-free official Android, even if the build is totally outdated by now. The only real benefit of having a Galaxy Nexus it seems.
Well, I actually don't think it is all that bad. The oldest ISC version out there is still only around 3 months old and better than 99% of Android's entire installation base.
The fact that a few manufacturers jumped on AOSP so soon is great and I'm happy for those users. I don't see the need to be 'first' and it doesn't sour my experience any. Google obviously thought the GN would re-fork with 4.0.3 by now but sometimes bugs get in the way of developer's best intentions.
virtualcertainty said:
Well, I actually don't think it is all that bad. The oldest ISC version out there is still only around 3 months old and better than 99% of Android's entire installation base.
The fact that a few manufacturers jumped on AOSP so soon is great and I'm happy for those users. I don't see the need to be 'first' and it doesn't sour my experience any. Google obviously thought the GN would re-fork with 4.0.3 by now but sometimes bugs get in the way of developer's best intentions.
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Well yeah, but the things that annoy me are the bugs that are present in 4.0.2 and have been fixed in 4.0.4. And not only that, but also the API features of 4.0.3+ that was supposed to be the 'base' version of Android 4.0.
I don't mind how long major releases would take, but this is a small incremental update. I am just surprised that it takes so long to serve it to 'Google phone'.
kristovaher said:
Totally true.
Google is not really considering Galaxy Nexus a Nexus device it seems. Some other systems have gotten newer version of Android already.
At least my Galaxy Nexus runs bloatware-free official Android, even if the build is totally outdated by now. The only real benefit of having a Galaxy Nexus it seems.
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Newer versions such as what? The latest aosp is 4.0.3 and not 4.0.4. It's quite obvious that 4.0.4 is not ready.
The Galaxy nexus is a Google supported device and is a nexus.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Well, if you look from it from the other side. Google might actually spare us from the still-bugged 4.0.3 version wich is AOSP. Also, JBQ already confirmed that the 4.0.4 version contained a "nasty bug" and wasn't ready for release.
If you look at it that way, new devices with 4.0.3 is still bugged in a way. And Google wants to keep those versions away from their current Nexus.
Just my way of being patient
Oddly enough, some of the tablets shown at MWC (on 4.0.3) had multi touch issues. This brings in a whole new strand of questions...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
In regards to the latest os .... can anyone tell me what phone has ics update already???? And I've said phone ohh and it has to be released now announced
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hurricurry said:
Multi touch bug ftl and slow multitasking.
Was really hoping Google would solve these problems earler
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
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I was really hoping people would stop *****ing about OTAs.
Sorry, but you all sound like a bunch of whiney kids. You'll never be satisfied because the OTAs will never be quick enough to satisfy people. Google is not going to give you nightly builds of ICS. So just calm down and wait for it to be finished and pushed out.
martonikaj said:
I was really hoping people would stop *****ing about OTAs.
Sorry, but you all sound like a bunch of whiney kids. You'll never be satisfied because the OTAs will never be quick enough to satisfy people. Google is not going to give you nightly builds of ICS. So just calm down and wait for it to be finished and pushed out.
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You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version. We are pissed because of the overwhelming silence from Google.
It would take them 15 minutes to post a blog on where things are at.
Scottatron said:
You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version.
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Yes I do. And people deserve to be given some perspective.
What do you mean? ~1% of Android devices have ICS. How is that not leading the way in terms of OS version when we're the only phone with it? Nothing has a higher OS (and don't say "omg the NS has 4.0.3!"). The Galaxy Nexus launched Android 4.
Why are you crying about not having 4.0.3/4.0.4 over 4.0.2. If its not ready, its not ready. That's why we don't have it officially yet. For all you know Google is holding off till 4.0.5, 4.0.6, or 4.1... no one knows.
Like your phone for what it is. You're like a dog chasing his tail when you get something great and always look for the next best thing. You'll spend your entire time with the device wanting more, and you'll never enjoy what you have.
Like I said in the other thread: OTA's will never come fast enough for people. If Google started pushing one every month (regardless of how what it did or didn't include/fix), it still wouldn't be fast enough because people would prefer it was 3 weeks instead, then 2 weeks, then 1 week, then nightlies. And guess what? Google isn't going to do nightly OTAs of ICS (not even close!). If you want nightlies, go build a ROM from CM source and change things for yourself. Or better yet, build straight from AOSP source and fix the bugs yourself. Make a thread for it and let people ***** at you for not fixing them faster.
maybe this is why apple is having better success in the mobile world then google and all the others.
while all i have is an old ipod touch from apple, and have GN and ACER tablet, the fact is that google ANNOUNCED 4.0.3 as THE LASTEST STABLE release, however, even on the official supported hardware i still have 4.0.2
this is why i personally compare android to the old windows mobile system.
on the old windows mobile system, if you wanted to upgrade to the latest, you had to hack the device and upgrade yourself, and even then not all devices could be upgraded to all OSs. when i talk to people about android, i still find mayself telling them that even on the official hardware you need to hack the device to get the official upgrade.
if google and all the open source will learn a little from old mistake they will build a better test environments and stop calling any buggy version an official release, or make sure that all devices be able to get the latest version when it is announced (ipod/iphone 3rd gen can still be updated to ios5 even if it can barely work with it) .
the simple fact is, the android is repeating all of the mistakes that even microsoft with WP7 have learned, and am not showing even the slightest inclinations to make a change to this inadequate system of multiversioning....
PCHelper said:
maybe this is why apple is having better success in the mobile world then google and all the others.
while all i have is an old ipod touch from apple, and have GN and ACER tablet, the fact is that google ANNOUNCED 4.0.3 as THE LASTEST STABLE release, however, even on the official supported hardware i still have 4.0.2
this is why i personally compare android to the old windows mobile system.
on the old windows mobile system, if you wanted to upgrade to the latest, you had to hack the device and upgrade yourself, and even then not all devices could be upgraded to all OSs. when i talk to people about android, i still find mayself telling them that even on the official hardware you need to hack the device to get the official upgrade.
if google and all the open source will learn a little from old mistake they will build a better test environments and stop calling any buggy version an official release, or make sure that all devices be able to get the latest version when it is announced (ipod/iphone 3rd gen can still be updated to ios5 even if it can barely work with it) .
the simple fact is, the android is repeating all of the mistakes that even microsoft with WP7 have learned, and am not showing even the slightest inclinations to make a change to this inadequate system of multiversioning....
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I'll tend to agree with most of what you said.... Apple has this down to a T with releasing OS versions. Everyone with the previous 2 versions of the hardware is completely guaranteed to get the update the day that it comes out. Models 3 years ago may or may not get a full update, but they'll at least get a partial update (with some features pulled). You know what you're getting and you know when you're getting it. You'll never be in limbo. When Apple announces a new iOS version, they explicitly say which models will get it. The consistency is good.
WP7 is a bit better analogy of what Android has to strive for IMO. Android covers tons of carriers, devices, etc. but still needs to be able to handle pushing OTAs to everyone in a timely matter. This is a huge logistical hurdle for MS (or Google) to try jump. MS is handling it by putting very strict guidelines on what hardware can be used and what you can/can't do to the software (which is pretty much nothing). This makes the OTA process a 1000 times easier for MS to implement. What it leads to is basically knowing that the OTA update will work on all of these different devices because they're about 90% identical in hardware, and 99% identical in software. The only hurdle for them is pretty much getting carriers to accept the terms of pushing the OTA.
While Google could implement a system like this, it'd be at least a year out. Because in order for this MS-style system to work, Android would have to have specific hardware and software guidelines. The problem being that Android is open source and free, and manufacturers can really do whatever they want. They only have to follow some very relaxed "guidelines" to get GAPPS. Even if Google wanted to push OTAs to all of these phones in their current state they couldn't. Google doesn't hold the code from Samsung, HTC, LG, Huawei, and others because they're each doing it in house. There is no unifying OTA that can be pushed. Ultimately Google has no say in what happens after they certify it for GAPPS support. At that point, its between the manufacturers and carriers what is going to happen.
Google needs to start hitting manufacturers where they can, with GAPPS. Its the only closed-source part of Android and its a really really important one. They need to start forcing UI guidelines and skinning policies that let OTAs flow smoother. On the carrier side, they need to start pushing carriers to allow manufacturers to push them when its ready. Google can only do so much to carriers though. At that point they can threaten, but again its not up to Google what happens with those devices once the licenses go out. Its not a Google sale to the carrier, its a manufacturer sale. Until every phone Google sells is a Nexus, they won't be able to tell carriers what to do. Although the market share is huge for Android, it doesn't have the same unified push to bully carriers like Apple has.
....but I've got a couple other points as well on your post. You're making it sound like the Galaxy Nexus is running 4.0.2, and the rest of devices are running/being sold with 4.0.3 (the "stable" build). This is not the case. Whether its running the most "stable" build or not, the GNex is the most up to date of all Android phones out there right now. And we'll be getting stock 4.0.3 before anyone, and all of those phones being sold from this point w/ 4.0.3 will have skins attached as well.
martonikaj said:
the GNex is the most up to date of all Android phones out there right now. And we'll be getting stock 4.0.3 before anyone
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Why doesn't the Nexus S factor into your argument?
Evangelion01 said:
Why doesn't the Nexus S factor into your argument?
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First off, the Nexus S update has yet to be pushed to everyone. Its still halted because of bugs (and the NS4G doesn't have it officially, either). Second, simply because it's 4.0.3 doesn't mean that it's "better" than 4.0.2 on the Galaxy Nexus. For all intents and purposes, it's the same update... look at the NS4G and NS on Gingerbread. One was on 2.3.5, the other on 2.3.7... doesn't mean one was better than the other, but simply the NS4G needed specific build # because its a different device.
If you're splitting hairs of 4.0.3 vs. 4.0.2 to try and win this argument, it's not going to work.
now here is where we can start the argument... 4.0.3 is better then 4.0.2 if only due to the codex hardware fix.
But that is not the question. The issue is it was officially released as latest stable, however only after official release somehow all of a sudden the official Google phones are full of bugs and it is not good for them. If it is not developed and tested on the official hardware, then why put the official stamp on everything? Where is Google QA? Why buy Google official devices if we cannot even get the minimum we expect from the name? Pay attention, I am not talking about vendor devices, only on official stamped device/software....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Scottatron said:
You just love calling everyone whiney kids don't you?
People are pissed because we have a Nexus that for the first time, is NOT leading the way in terms of OS version. We are pissed because of the overwhelming silence from Google.
It would take them 15 minutes to post a blog on where things are at.
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+1
Couldn't have put it better myself. Google really needs to pull its **** together and give us some of that 4.0.4 goodness!
Thank god for unlockable bootloaders and XDA devs, huh. Oh, wait......
From my point of view (and mine only) I knew the nexus would have an unlockable boot loader, I knew there would be a root exploit before I even brought the device and I knew the devs here would provide better then Google themselves, that's why I personally, brought the phone. Fortunately you didn't choose HTC. The delays are longer and the devices more secure. What I'm trying to say is, make the most the the nexus and this community and get a custom ROM or makesure you choose devices in the future for the right reasons. Let's face it, very few of us brought it for the specs....
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Before you all scream heresy, hear me out.
Today marked Verizon officially announcing 4.2.2 for the Galaxy Nexus, thus marking the end of the VZW model being 4 updates behind the GSM models. Here's the thing...every time there's been an update in testing, El Madhatter has informed us because of his testing phone. He never got a 4.1.2, 4.2, or 4.2.1 build. His device went straight from 4.1.1/JRO03O to 4.2.2/JDQ39. Because of that, one can logically deduce that Google never actually released a 4.1.2, 4.2, or 4.2.1 build to Verizon for testing on the device.
There is historical precedent for this. Let's go back to December, 2011 when Android 4.0.3/Ice Cream Sandwich was released to the Nexus S and Motorola Xoom. Only two variants ever got Android 4.0.3:
1. The 900 MHz carrier-unlocked Nexus S (I9020T/I9023 - Got build IML74K)
2. The Wi-Fi Motorola Xoom (MZ604 - Got build IML77)
Here's a list of devices that never saw an update until Android 4.0.4/IMM76(X) was released in late March, 2012:
1. The 850 MHz carrier-unlocked Nexus S (I9020A - Updated directly by Google with no carrier approvals just like I9020T)
2. The Sprint Nexus S 4G (D720)
3. The Korean Nexus S (M200)
4. The Verizon Motorola Xoom (MZ600/MZ602)
5. The carrier-unlocked Galaxy Nexus running yakju firmware (I9250)
6. The Verizon Galaxy Nexus (I515)
The I9250 Play Store (running takju) model was not available yet.
So as you can see, clearly Google picks and chooses which devices get which updates in the event of brand new Android versions sometimes. Some builds (like 4.0.3) were clearly designed to be limited rollouts to test on a more limited scale. Then once they fix bugs, they do a more massive rollout (like they did with 4.0.4). Something tells me that 4.2 was the same thing.
4.2 and 4.2.1 had exactly one difference...the fixing of the December event bug. So, I think it's clear that Google probably intended the 4.2/4.2.1 JOP40(X) builds to be the test builds that they used to gauge the major problems. Now that the major issues with those builds are fixed, 4.2.2 is their "mass rollout" build that they're releasing to absolutely everything.
I think this is actually smart on Google's part, given that Verizon requires testing and approval of all updates to phones they sell.
Also, within that parameter, 4.2.2/JDQ39 hit GSM Galaxy Nexus models on February 12. We on Verizon got the official OTA rollout beginning March 19. That's a little over a month. That's the fastest update the VZW Galaxy Nexus has ever received.
Discuss.
i think its a little of both.
verizon does slow down the update process, but google is the one that releases the update itself.
Good thoughts. I also think it is likely that Verizon started testing and rejected those builds. 4.2 and 4.2.1 had some serious issues and I'm sure big red didn't want to support them.
A buddy of mine from high school works for Verizon corporate. I've asked him why VzW always seems to lag on updates. A lot of it comes down to VzW: It's not that Google never sent the updates to VzW, it's that VzW tests everything and what they don't like doesn't get pushed out to VzW customers.
Makes since to me, but I think Vzw miss handled the public relations aspects of it. I'm mean with all those jelly bean builds being released. They could've let their customers know that they're not interested in those builds but will update our phones with a build that meets their standards
I for one was ready you shout heresy at the top of my lungs, but then I saw it was written by Oldblue and had to give it a chance. I'm halfway convinced. Another peculiarity is the build numbers of late - in the past, each AOSP device typically had a slightly different build number (IMM76K, D, Q, JRO03C, R, O) due to small changes made to the final build for each unique piece of hardware. With 4.1.2 the build was JZO54K across all AOSP platforms, which continued with JOP40C,D and JDQ39. Something has changed in the build process to make Android more universal, and in the case of JDQ39 made it through Verizon testing in record time.
Now, do I believe that Google didn't send 4.2 or 4.2.1 to Verizon? Not sure, but it's worth pondering in absence of knowing what internal conversations occurred.
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It just wasn't a good idea for Verizon to take on the nexus. Nexus devices shouldn't be controlled by a carrier at all. Carrier's don't want to deal with the problems that the nexus devices bring.
Google doesn't release perfect builds to the nexus because that isn't the purpose of nexus phones. In order to be on the cutting edge of android development you have to deal with some things not working perfectly. I think everyone can agree that 4.2 and 4.2.1 had some pretty significant issues and Verizon customer support may not know what to do if a customer calls in needing help with something not working.
Winesnob said:
I for one was ready you shout heresy at the top of my lungs, but then I saw it was written by Oldblue and had to give it a chance. I'm halfway convinced. Another peculiarity is the build numbers of late - in the past, each AOSP device typically had a slightly different build number (IMM76K, D, Q, JRO03C, R, O) due to small changes made to the final build for each unique piece of hardware. With 4.1.2 the build was JZO54K across all AOSP platforms, which continued with JOP40C,D and JDQ39. Something has changed in the build process to make Android more universal, and in the case of JDQ39 made it through Verizon testing in record time.
Now, do I believe that Google didn't send 4.2 or 4.2.1 to Verizon? Not sure, but it's worth pondering in absence of knowing what internal conversations occurred.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
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Well there were past examples of all platforms having the same build number. All Galaxy Nexus devices launched with 4.0.1/ITL41D and 4.0.2 was ICL53F across the board.
On the Xoom, the Wi-Fi and Verizon models shared build numbers sometimes.
For the Nexus S, all variants ran 2.3.4/GRJ22. All except Sprint ran 2.3.6/GRK39F. Also, the Nexus One's Gingerbread builds always matched the GSM Nexus S variants...GRI40, GRJ22 and GRK39F.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
oldblue910 said:
Well there were past examples of all platforms having the same build number. All Galaxy Nexus devices launched with 4.0.1/ITL41D and 4.0.2 was ICL53F across the board.
On the Xoom, the Wi-Fi and Verizon models shared build numbers sometimes.
For the Nexus S, all variants ran 2.3.4/GRJ22. All except Sprint ran 2.3.6/GRK39F. Also, the Nexus One's Gingerbread builds always matched the GSM Nexus S variants...GRI40, GRJ22 and GRK39F.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
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True, but the most striking thing to me is that JDQ39 is on the N4,N7,N10, and GNex. Crossing that many platforms with the same AOSP core seems a bit unusual.
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I don't necessarily think Google has anything to do with the update process of the VZ variant. Android is an open source API. Carriers adopt that API and add any features they deem worthy (TouchWiz, Motoblur, Sense). The carriers also hold proprietary drivers for their devices, which they have to update with progressing versions of the Android platform.
iLeopard said:
I don't necessarily think Google has anything to do with the update process of the VZ variant. Android is an open source API. Carriers adopt that API and add any features they deem worthy (TouchWiz, Motoblur, Sense). The carriers also hold proprietary drivers for their devices, which they have to update with progressing versions of the Android platform.
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In the case of the Verizon Galaxy Nexus variant, Verizon's only role is testing of any update. Beyond that, updates for that device come direct from Google. So Google submits the updates to Verizon, Verizon signs off, Google rolls it out. My point was, I don't think step one (Google submitting the update for testing) ever happened for 4.1.2, 4.2, or 4.2.1.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
iLeopard said:
I don't necessarily think Google has anything to do with the update process of the VZ variant. Android is an open source API. Carriers adopt that API and add any features they deem worthy (TouchWiz, Motoblur, Sense). The carriers also hold proprietary drivers for their devices, which they have to update with progressing versions of the Android platform.
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You are confusing carriers with manufacturers. TouchWiz is Samsung, Motoblur is Motorola, Sense is HTC. Carriers don't request these features, they come from the makers as a branding mark on top of the Android API. Carriers do on frqeuent occasion have the manufacturers presinstall bloatware from which the carrier receives advertising revenue or promotes its own services. The Nexus (despite being on Verizon) is a Google device, does not come with bloatware, and has no manufacturer skin stuck on top of Android. The vast majority of proprietary drivers for Nexus devices are posted on Googles open source pages as they have licensed them for distribution as intact binary files, aiding third party developers in building AOSP for Nexus devices. The Galaxy Nexus software update battle is between Google and Verizon - Verizon doesn't continue developing the platform, they simply test and decide if they are going to push it out. If not, they notify Google with specific issues and move forward from there.
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Winesnob said:
You are confusing carriers with manufacturers. TouchWiz is Samsung, Motoblur is Motorola, Sense is HTC. Carriers don't request these features, they come from the makers as a branding mark on top of the Android API. Carriers do on frqeuent occasion have the manufacturers presinstall bloatware from which the carrier receives advertising revenue or promotes its own services. The Nexus (despite being on Verizon) is a Google device, does not come with bloatware, and has no manufacturer skin stuck on top of Android. The vast majority of proprietary drivers for Nexus devices are posted on Googles open source pages as they have licensed them for distribution as intact binary files, aiding third party developers in building AOSP for Nexus devices. The Galaxy Nexus software update battle is between Google and Verizon - Verizon doesn't continue developing the platform, they simply test and decide if they are going to push it out. If not, they notify Google with specific issues and move forward from there.
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Right, I did in fact confuse those two. Thank you.
The VZ variant complies with LTE standards though which does imply driver differences between the GSM and CDMA version?
iLeopard said:
Right, I did in fact confuse those two. Thank you.
The VZ variant complies with LTE standards though which does imply driver differences between the GSM and CDMA version?
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Yes but Google and Samsung control that. The CDMA and LTE drivers for the VZW Galaxy Nexus are available on the AOSP driver page on Google's developer site.
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Didn't the Sprint Galaxy Nexus get more updates though?
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Yuhfhrh said:
Didn't the Sprint Galaxy Nexus get more updates though?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Toroplus (mysidspr) is maintained by Samsung, and that device bumped from 4.1.1 to 4.2.1. So no, it didn't get more updates and is actually an update behind the Google maintained Galaxy Nexi (takju, takju, mysid)
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My curse is that every thing reminds me of South Park, so I immediately thought "What's important right now, is figuring out whose fault this is."
Maybe you're right, but that answer only welcomes more questions. Could be Google thinks of VZW users as helpless children that can't handle the potential bugs present in the newest firmware. Maybe the opposite: Google thinks of VZW users as elitists who only deserve stable updates?. Or maybe they think, "We are VZW/Google, you know those AT&T jokers don't have service in the more rural areas of the country, you'll pay for it and then wait longer for updates. F you." Or maybe, VZW and/or Google were actually genuinely testing the firmware on the VZW LTE device before releasing it. I imagine it takes a while for the can-you-hear-me-now guy to make his rounds.
If anyone is to blame for lagging updates it's people like you who create threads like these. There has been a whacked sense of entitlement going on these past years and it's easier to find someone to blame rather than demonstrate patience. I would wager people are already asking when the next update is coming out. People call and harass Verizon or whoever and then tell the whole internet about how no one at Verizon knows anything or they are giving you conflicting dates. You're not forced to sign a contract with a particular cell phone carrier...are you? Oh and then the update finally comes and people rush to find and post the latest bugs and then call and harass Verizon or google again and ask them when the next update is coming. Has anyone ever called Verizon after an update and thanked them? Hmmm probably not, too busy asking for more and more. Android updates have become like crack for people and it's time to step away from the white mountains and just relax. They are just phones people!! Call your grandmothers instead of checking for updates everyday!
The op shows no sense of entitlement nor is requesting another update. Simply pondering on why various versions of nexus have updated differently. Fact is, to an extent your right, a lot of people are constantly crying for updates, but this thread is not one of those situations.
I, for one, bought a nexus for the purpose of being at the forefront of updates, but I'm not crying for any. As long as googles follows through with the promise of keeping my bought from Google devices up to date with the latest release I'm happy. That's not a sense of entitlement, its called buying a nexus for a specific reason.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
hlaalu said:
If anyone is to blame for lagging updates it's people like you who create threads like these. There has been a whacked sense of entitlement going on these past years and it's easier to find someone to blame rather than demonstrate patience. I would wager people are already asking when the next update is coming out. People call and harass Verizon or whoever and then tell the whole internet about how no one at Verizon knows anything or they are giving you conflicting dates. You're not forced to sign a contract with a particular cell phone carrier...are you? Oh and then the update finally comes and people rush to find and post the latest bugs and then call and harass Verizon or google again and ask them when the next update is coming. Has anyone ever called Verizon after an update and thanked them? Hmmm probably not, too busy asking for more and more. Android updates have become like crack for people and it's time to step away from the white mountains and just relax. They are just phones people!! Call your grandmothers instead of checking for updates everyday!
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Seriously? Wow. I never EVER hinted at a sense of entitlement. I agree with you that there is definitely a lot of that in this community, but that was not the point of this thread. If you look at any of the work I do around here, my entire purpose on XDA is to catalog stock OTA updates for Nexus devices and help the community with reverting to stock if necessary. Thus, a thread like this would be logical for me to start as this topic is basically at the crux of what I do here.
I should tell you, sir, to go back under your rock and stay there.