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Hi all.
Last night I accidentally discovered the burnt pixels on my one year old Focus screen The sights of high contrasts Metro-style icons (such as IE, phone and marketplace) are visible on the white background as a darker "shadows" (actual color is like a light-light yellow, close to white). These "shadows" are visible on the white background in the dark only.
It's not a big deal but I'm kinda disappointed
So, my conclusions are:
- high contrasts Metro-style tiles on the home screen are evil, at least for AMOLED screens. However live tiles (probably) can solve the issue (he-he, just thought - may be it's a real reason why MS implemented and pushing live tiles? Kidding );
- periodical changing of tile location on the home screen also can help;
- using AMOLED handsets for development is not so good. The best practice is to keep AMOLED screens off all the time (what is not acceptable for development).
My Focus is one year old, but I don't have any burn in problems some reported. Granted, I don't leave my phone screen on for extended periods, but my live tile arrangement really never changed.
Now that I have the HTC Titan, I have no regrets with the SLCD screen. The colors seem more natural to me. While AMOLED screens certainly have a "pop" factor, it's not a must-have for me.
This is a well known issue that you have to live with: AMOLED will get screen burn-in if it is use for an extend period of time.
I know most of the Android Galaxy phones also have screen burn-in especially on the status bar.
My own Samsung Focus developed screen burn-in (esp. Metro buttons) after only three months of use.
day2die said:
This is a well known issue that you have to live with: AMOLED will get screen burn-in if it is use for an extend period of time.
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How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
I notice things on my Omnia 7. Normally if i've had a menu open for a minute or more and i switch to a black background i can see a kind of greyish imprint of the last displayed icons.
sensboston said:
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
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SAMOLED has it as well. I'm sure it was a big issue in the focus forums last year
The biggest disadvantage of an amoled screen is when you move to another type of screen, and notice just how gray blacks can be. Using my old focus and having the blacks blend with the bezel was so visually pleasing, and the colors had so much pop. I hear that the colors aren't as accurate, but what does that mean really? 90% of what I look at on a phone is arbitrary colors anyway; how would I ever know that the blue tiles are really supposed to be one shade vs. another, and why would I care?
(btw yes, I had the same screen burn-in problem on my focus)
Yeah i had a major burn in problem with my Omnia 7, I think it was something to do with the bright blue theme i used, i have pictures here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=973337
use a screen saver?
Oh ya.. nevermind
Wow... I had no idea of this...
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Is this a really wide spread problem?
renatofontes said:
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
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Try to look at your screen in darkness (set white background on the fullscreen first), then say "luckily"
sensboston said:
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
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Click to collapse
The problem is particularly bad on Super AMOLED screens.
Super AMOLED is still AMOLED.
My Vibrant, if I turn my screen on to the home screen and let it sit there for 10 seconds and then open another app, I can see the shadows on the home screen superimposed onto the app that's running. It's very noticeable, and gets irksome after a while. You won't see that on LCD screens.
The status bar is burnt in, which is noticeable when the phone is used in landscape mode because you can always see that faint strip where the status bar is (in portrait) on the side of the screen.
I set my screen timeout to 30 seconds to "preserve" the screen.
---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------
renatofontes said:
Wow... I had no idea of this...
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Is this a really wide spread problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of Samsung's displays have this issue. Perhaps you just haven't noticed it, or are just fortunate
Not really widespread, and not really a "problem" per se. Just a component of the screen tech. It burns in and shadows easily.
However they have better power management than LCD screens and better brightness, viewing angles, and outdoor visibility - as well as better color saturation and reproduction. For example, I increase my Vibrant's stock battery life by like 4+ hours doing absolutely nothing but putting a true black background on the launcher...
It's a trade-off. It's worth it for someone like you who doesn't notice it, though. It's worth it even for some people who do. It really depends on how long you keep your phone, Lol. If you upgrade yearly it's not that big a deal. I can't see myself going 2 years with the Vibrant as my primary device and dealing with it, though. It's too startling to look at at times, especially after you spend a significant amount of time in one app with static UI elements and move to something else...
If you look at the AMOLED technology, it's understandable really. All the colours displayed on the screen are composed of green, red and blue sub-pixels.
In an AMOLED screen, there is no backlighting. The sub-pixels themselves generate the visible light, hence why the blacks are so black, because the black pixels are not powered on. (Think of an AMOLED screen as having thousands of tiny tiny LED's)
However the problem with AMOLED is the manufacturers could not produce a specific chemical compound for each colour that would wear evenly. For example, the blue sub pixel has a shorter lifespan than the green. When the AMOLED sub-pixels gets used, the intensity of light produced decreases, hence there is uneven wear. The pentile arrangement was to actually arrange the pixels in a way, which as the display wears, the colours look normal. When there are static pixels displayed, a certain portion of sub pixels gets used more than others, hence why you can notice it.
In an LCD, each sub-pixel is a polarizing filter, which filters out either red/blue/green and displays it or blocks it, so an LCD doesn't suffer from screen burn in as much as AMOLED and PLASMA displays.
From day one I have only ever used my phone on the lowest setting and I have alternated every few days from red/green tiles. I have never used blue due to the low lifespan of blues!!
I don't think it's a huge problem if you are smart. I made the mistake of leaving my screen on as often as possible when I first got my focus. Once I started noticing the burn in, I moved my tiles around, put my screen on 2 minute timeout, and didn't notice any more of the burn in. Just the original images.
As Big K mentions, blue pixels are the quickest to degrade, that is why you never use a blue theme with an AMOLED display. Also, displaying white actually activates some blue pixels and draws more power, so the black system theme should always be used over white.
Every AMOLED owner should know these 2 things and it is a shame that Samsung and the carriers don't do a better job of informing their customers of these simple facts.
I cringe every time I see an AMOLED phone with a white background and blue theme.
This is why I still stick to Super LCD.
I saw an S2 get a burn in within 2 months of use. Lawl.
ohgood said:
use a screen saver?
Oh ya.. nevermind
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The solution is ridiculously obvious: turn off your screen when you're done using the phone. Duh. That's obvious from a simple battery life perspective.
Of course, I see people *constantly* who just set their phones down with the screen on and walk away. Idiots.
jasongw said:
The solution is ridiculously obvious: turn off your screen when you're done using the phone. Duh. That's obvious from a simple battery life perspective.
Of course, I see people *constantly* who just set their phones down with the screen on and walk away. Idiots.
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The solution is not ridiculously obvious because other screen types do not suffer from thsi issue, therefor the user who moves from an LCD screen to an AMOLED has absolutely no clue that this screen type has these deficiencies. They simply assume their screen will always look the way it does as long as they take care of their phone.
That is not a bad assumption. It just doesn't jive with this display tech.
I love the deep blacks and color saturation on Samsung's AMOLED screens, but I don't think I can ever convince myself to get another one.
The issue isn't just keeping the screen on. I've always used a 30 second screen time-out on all my phones, so they aren't just sitting there a ton with an image on them. Even when you have something on the screen for like 10 seconds and move to another app you can see the image shadows on the screen. Yes, it gets pretty noticeable after a while to the point where it's constantly drawing your attention.
It's actually worse than the PenTile they use in the 1st gen SAMOLED screens, TBH.
N8ter said:
The solution is not ridiculously obvious because other screen types do not suffer from thsi issue, therefor the user who moves from an LCD screen to an AMOLED has absolutely no clue that this screen type has these deficiencies. They simply assume their screen will always look the way it does as long as they take care of their phone.
That is not a bad assumption. It just doesn't jive with this display tech.
I love the deep blacks and color saturation on Samsung's AMOLED screens, but I don't think I can ever convince myself to get another one.
The issue isn't just keeping the screen on. I've always used a 30 second screen time-out on all my phones, so they aren't just sitting there a ton with an image on them. Even when you have something on the screen for like 10 seconds and move to another app you can see the image shadows on the screen. Yes, it gets pretty noticeable after a while to the point where it's constantly drawing your attention.
It's actually worse than the PenTile they use in the 1st gen SAMOLED screens, TBH.
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1st gen? It's being used in the Galaxy Nexus, too
It's a really useful point to raise, and something to think about for people using their phones for development. Automatic screen time-outs can be an annoyance when you're testing features (against a real device), and wanting to stay connected (in visual studio) to the phone for debugging info and deployment. I know I have my current phone on most of the day to test tile and page updates etc. so there's bound to be large areas of the screen remaining static for long periods of time.
It's made me think twice about getting a Lumia (which I assume would be prone too) for this reason
I'm surprised manufactures don't include info on it bundled with the phones (e.g. on not having a white background) - that's pretty irresponsible.
It's a shame really, since I love EVERYTHING else about this watch - good price, snappy processor, GPS, WiFi (not even sure what that will bring eventually), NFC.
But with this thing serving primarily as a watch on my wrist, I just can't stand the ambient screen. From pretty much any angle it is a low-contrast, mustard-y yellow.
I'm looking at the LG R watch now. It's $50 more, and is missing a bunch of features, but the screen is GREAT. :'-(
I really wanted to like this watch! Please XDA, talk me into keeping it!!
** Delete **
loneBoat said:
It's a shame really, since I love EVERYTHING else about this watch - good price, snappy processor, GPS, WiFi (not even sure what that will bring eventually), NFC.
But with this thing serving primarily as a watch on my wrist, I just can't stand the ambient screen. From pretty much any angle it is a low-contrast, mustard-y yellow.
I'm looking at the LG R watch now. It's $50 more, and is missing a bunch of features, but the screen is GREAT. :'-(
I really wanted to like this watch! Please XDA, talk me into keeping it!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The LG P-OLED screen can burn in... Otherwise I possibly had bought it aswell.
I love the sw3 and especially the ambient mode screen and GPS. Its looks like a compromise between a e-ink and LCD..
But maybe it's a kind of different tastes.
Send with Tapatalk on Sony Z2
djgodlike said:
The LG P-OLED screen can burn in... Otherwise I possibly had bought it aswell
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Good point about the burn-in. I just searched over on the LG R watch forums and there's some horror stories of burn-in after just a week. :-o That may be a deal-breaker for me.
Hah! You may have talked me into staying on SW3 just as I requested - thanks! :highfive:
It's a garbage screen on a first-gen looking product. I returned mine for the same reason.
foxfire235 said:
It's a garbage screen on a first-gen looking product. I returned mine for the same reason.
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I haven't gotten mine yet but have played with it in store. I wouldn't say it's garbage. Is it on par with other android wear devices? Probably not. However, just as another user stated above, its sort of a mix between e ink and color. It seems to be helping to deliver great battery life with it too. Also, with the update it seems you guys can turn off the feature of activating the screen arm movement. So with this screen you can leave it on always on mode and still be able to see the screen without killing battery. All the android wear devices are first gen tech, but the Sony SW 3 still offers so much more than any of the other watches. For that, I can certainly deal with the screen negatives. Even though it does offer positives so its not completely bad, therefore back to my point that I wouldn't call it garbage.
I like the screen...in my office or while outdoor, I can look at it at any time and almost any angle and can see the time w/o artifiially tilting my arm, or pressing a button. The screen is always on and I get easly 2 days...that is worth a lot to me. My 2 cents....
No matter how you look at it the pro's outweigh the con's.And if you can't live with then just return it and I'll keep mine.
techrider6262 said:
No matter how you look at it the pro's outweigh the con's.And if you can't live with then just return it and I'll keep mine.
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Click to collapse
+1 :good:
---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
djgodlike said:
The LG P-OLED screen can burn in... Otherwise I possibly had bought it aswell.
I love the sw3 and especially the ambient mode screen and GPS. Its looks like a compromise between a e-ink and LCD..
But maybe it's a kind of different tastes.
Send with Tapatalk on Sony Z2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. It's a major flaw of OLED screen. SW3's transflective screen is the perfect choice for ambient mode. It's more readable in bright sunlight. Honestly, transflective LCD is born for outside activities.
I got my first SW3. The screen is too yellow with a small dark spot at the bottom of the screen. I returned it immediately and now the 2nd one is really good.
I disagree. Try taking your smartphone and let the sun shine on the screen (or a bright lamp) and lower the brightness. The whites and blacks will be very similar in color to the SW3's screen. I'm currently using the Odyssey watchface and sometimes it takes a while for the full watchface to turn on so I get the opportunity to seen the ambient screen with the backlight on. Whites are white on it. What I would like is for the ambient light sensor to turn on the backlight at minimal brightness in low light conditions.
my device is very white. It is of course no OLED screen that are over saturated mostly but i definetly see no yellow tint there on white (maybe a really tiny bit more yellowish but really nothing i notice at all in normal use).
And having the watch always on is such a huge + in my opinion. Yes you can't see the screen in low light situations. But honestly.
People are never happy. When the backlight would be always on some people would complain that the watch is always making light in the dark.
(which would annoy me probably more)
If you want correctly displayed colors you would need to calibrate your screens.
Who does that for home usage here?
It's definitely not first gen. I had first gen smartwatch from Sony, this one is ten times better
I would like the option for a low backlight on low light (current low backlight settings are too bright to begin with). I suppose that's what custom ROMs/root apps are for.
I like it on mine. The default faces are pretty bad on it in ambient mode, but I built ones for it on Facer that make it really easy to read.
vitaminxero said:
I would like the option for a low backlight on low light (current low backlight settings are too bright to begin with). I suppose that's what custom ROMs/root apps are for.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure if you had something like this in mind ( http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=57615301 ) ...but I'm using this app and it lets me lower the brightness down to where it's much more comfortable for using my watch in bed at night. The developer is letting us try it out for free until 12/21... but I went ahead and bought it for a buck from the Play Store.
Grown to love ambient mode, except for complete darkness I can read the watch fine.
I have a Gear Live, try to go out in the sun and read the time, this watch no problem.
I purchased Facer, made myself a digital watch face with huge numbers that makes the watch even more visible in direct sun
vitaminxero said:
I disagree. Try taking your smartphone and let the sun shine on the screen (or a bright lamp) and lower the brightness. The whites and blacks will be very similar in color to the SW3's screen. I'm currently using the Odyssey watchface and sometimes it takes a while for the full watchface to turn on so I get the opportunity to seen the ambient screen with the backlight on. Whites are white on it. What I would like is for the ambient light sensor to turn on the backlight at minimal brightness in low light conditions.
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Agreed! I live in Florida (the sunshine state) and spend lots of time outdoors. Our days are long, it's almost always sunny, and the sun is INTENSE! I got this watch specifically because of this display. Try reading an OLED display outdoors in Florida sun. Even my Note4 with its high-brightness outdoor mode is barely readable. Yet my SW3 is clear as day, with or without the backlight. Yes, it definitely doesn't look as pretty indoors as the OLED screens, but for my use its perfect. Not like I'm watching movies on it or anything. I'm glad Sony decided to carry over the transflective tech from the SW2...it was a bold move but it's one of the things that sets this product apart. If you don't like it, there are plenty of competing products on the market.
I just wish there was a way to disable the backlight under any ambient light conditions, like my SW2. One of the firmware updates for the SW2 introduced a smarter backlight that stayed off, even when in use, when there was enough ambient light, like outdoors. While it makes no difference in appearance, it helps conserve battery.
Calvin Gross said:
+1 :good:
---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
Good point. It's a major flaw of OLED screen. SW3's transflective screen is the perfect choice for ambient mode. It's more readable in bright sunlight. Honestly, transflective LCD is born for outside activities.
I got my first SW3. The screen is too yellow with a small dark spot at the bottom of the screen. I returned it immediately and now the 2nd one is really good.
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Click to collapse
Transflective screens are also installed on all Garmin outdoor standalone GPS: if you want a well readable screen on EVERY situation you need a transfective.... NOT a AMOLED.
Amoled is much contrasted and wonderful on artificial light or on low natural light, but is a pain during summer outdoor activity (and need maximum power consumption to be barely readable)
heavyhms said:
Transflective screens are also installed on all Garmin outdoor standalone GPS: if you want a well readable screen on EVERY situation you need a transfective.... NOT a AMOLED.
Amoled is much contrasted and wonderful on artificial light or on low natural light, but is a pain during summer outdoor activity (and need maximum power consumption to be barely readable)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The transflective display is one of the big selling points of this watch if you ask me. It's visible in pretty much any light except very low. I don't have to turn the backlight on to see it (saves battery) and it's viewable in direct sunlight. This is a huge plus for anyone taking this thing out for runs or bike rides. I'm a long distance runner and use this watch exclusively for tracking and music, it works great!
The screen on the Sony Smartwatch 3 is the best, hands the fak down!! Always on and viewable, just as watch suppose to be.
Its comical sporting a watch thats turned off until you put it up in front of your grill to turn ON...gayness to the fullest.
So I tend to use both the LG G R watch as a daily driver and my Samsung Neo when I go joggin since I can easily just attach it to my computer and just drag and drop music. Before this I use to use the Sony SW2 which was okay for it's time.
My question is, can I expect anything crazy from this SW3? I know it has the GPS and decent enough screen that I can see in daylight but is there anything else?
I also bought a Pebble Steel yesterday and that's going straight back.
Comfortable to wear, excellent screen for viewing just about whenever except dark, with the screen "off". So it's perfect for being a watch and easily lasts 48 hours with always displaying the time. Screen will look dull compared to your GWR but its visibility outweighs that flaw. GPS can be sometimes erratic but no solid evidence about that. Getting the USB cover out can be tricky but not that bad, but it's awesome knowing you can charge it wherever without an accessory. Best waterproof rating of any android wear smart watch. Other than nothing to crazy. It's a solid watch that stands out cause its GPS, and its pretty futureproof with that, wifi, and a big one being NFC. Just need google to open that up.
Nothing more to add but I really like mine and feel I made the right choice, It was either the G watch R, Asus Zenwatch and this one. Got this one and haven't regretted it at all, I find it really useful and battery life is great.
Out of interest why are you leaving the G Watch R behind? I'm in the middle of writting an app and struggling with just the Sony with it being square and was thinking of picking up the G Watch R so I could test on a round device (and have another toy)
better screen, better mic, better battery
Also band is better, plus its lighter.
I have both the SW3 and the GWR. The GWR is a prettier watch, the SW3 is a more useful gadget. I use my GWR as a dress watch and the SW3 for everything else. The main reason is the trans- reflective display, I can live with it being duller because I can read it in daylight, even with sunglasses on. I got over it not looking like a watch a long time ago. In fact most of the watch faces I use don't even look like a traditional watch. I would also rate it even higher if the light sensor was a bit more effective in dimming the screen at night.
I don't think the light sensor is needed at all on the SW3. I always keep mine at the lowest brightness level, and it is very readable anyway. In fact, the more ambient light, the better.
When I was dating my ex, I always kept our text conversation open on my Note 4, and my Note 4's screen was set to never sleep/dim while plugged in. I had the screen on with our text messages for probably 8-10 hours a day for months.
Now her name, phone #, the keyboard, texting app, everything is burned into my Note 4 screen. It's really bad and noticeable in every app.
I tried running the screen burn-in fixer (that flashes different colors every 2-3 seconds) for over 18 hours and it did not seem to help the problem.
Does anybody know of a fix? Could I perhaps open a pure white screen for two days and hope that burns in?
There's really no fixing it. OLED screen burn-in is a brutal thing. If you're lucky, you might be able to get it replaced under a warranty.
The important thing to do is to learn from the experience. I mean that sincerely, and I hope it doesn't come across as at all condescending in tone. Going forward, if you get an OLED device, you'll want to make sure to avoid letting things like the status bar stay the same color for very long periods of time, and shorten the time before the screen shuts off.
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Your idea to potentially resolve it with a pure white image for an extended time, as I understand, is generally effective with LCD technology, but not OLED.
To understand why running the screen burn-in fixer for 18 hours will not fix it, you must understand how OLED, and plasma display panels, and even old-school CRTs work.
All 3 display technologies have self-illuminating phosphors. OLED panels use organic LEDs. Plasma display panels use tiny cells filled with, well, plasma. CRTs use phosphors which are illuminated by being bombarded with electrons. These phosphors slowly degrade over the life of the display, and as they do so they grow dimmer over time. By the end of their long production run, CRT phosphors reached the point where they would not noticeably dim during a human lifetime. Plasma phosphors never did, which is why burn-in was possible on the very last Panasonic plasma TVs that were manufactured before the whole thing was scuttled by the nearly bankrupt company.
Now we come to OLEDs. OLEDs are still a very immature technology and the problem of phosphors dimming rapidly and having a short lifetime has not been solved. There is a reason why LG is purposely using white OLEDs with an overlaid color filter on their OLED TVs. Samsung attempted to make OLED TVs for mass production using RGB OLEDs but withdrew from the market while they worked to improve the effective lifetime of the OLEDs, especially the blue ones.
So what actually is burn-in? It's simple. If you leave something showing statically on the OLED panel forever, such as your text message window, the illuminated OLEDs will drastically dim relative to the ones which are dark. What you're seeing is uneven wear of your OLED panel. Some pixels are worn out a lot, others are mostly unused.
Now you understand why your burn-in fixer will not do anything. Because the burn-in fixer shows static, full screen colors, it will wear down all your OLED phosphors evenly. This will never fix burn-in because you have some which are worn down unevenly, so wearing all of them down more does nothing!
Some people have attempted clever solutions, like taking a color-inverted screenshot of their burn-in and displaying that for a long time to try and wear the non burned-in pixels more to match the wear on the burned-in ones. This may theoretically work, but you must leave this image displaying for as long as you displayed the original screen that caused the burn-in. In your case, since you left your ex's text window on the screen for months, you will need to display the color-inverted image for months to wear the non burned-in pixels enough to match the burned-in ones.
My point is that you should just throw your phone away and buy a new one. You have basically destroyed your phone's OLED panel, chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on. Turn the damn screen off when you're not using your phone!
Colton127 said:
Now her name, phone #, the keyboard, texting app, everything is burned into my Note 4 screen. It's really bad and noticeable in every app.
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Click to collapse
This thread is now over a year old, and I don't know if you've thrown away the phone by now/had the screen replaced under a warranty as user Bicknasty suggested/something else, but here's a relatively simple solution I'm surprised no one else has mentioned:
While you can't actually get rid of AMOLED screen burn-in per se, you can certainly burn in other parts of the screen to the point where everything is burnt in about the same and the difference isn't really noticeable. You would do this by first pulling up the exact image that's burnt in (go to screen you had open for so much time that it burned in; you might want to take a screenshot and edit out all the dynamic elements of the user interface like the stuff on the notification bar and individual messages, so that you don't end up with those burnt in when you're done), then inverting the colors (you can find an option to do this in the settings application), and then leaving that image open 24/7 until the burn in of the inverted image has canceled out the original burn-in (you should check on this periodically by pulling up a white image that fills the screen). Remember, this won't technically get rid of the burn-in, but it'll make it impossible to notice. Good luck
Hey all,
I was looking at my phone, the Samsung Galaxy S20 Ultra, and I noticed some kind of ghosting or burn in or something. It looks like the image of icons that were on the screen, and are burned in. Any ideas? I included a pic I hope will explain better.
Running it in sunlight and/or brightness over 50%?
The pixels are wearing out from use. Blues go first, reds last generally from wear.
Use manual brightness control. Avoid use in direct sunlight. Keep brightness no higher than needs. Use dark mode and dark wallpapers.
Rotate widgets and icons.
My homepage and settings tweaked to minimize premature display wear.
Test it and see what you got:
Thanks for the insight. Is there any way to fix what has already happened?
Negative. It's a normal wear thing.
It's possible the manufacturing quality of that display wasn't good. See if you can badger Samsung into a warranty repair or reduced repair price. There have been a lot of issues across the board with variable refresh rate displays. One reason I stayed with the N10+.
Using dark mode and dark wallpapers will make less noticeable.
In the future take steps to prevent this with a new display. Yeah they get very bright but organic LEDs aren't as robust as their thicker non organic counterparts. Limit max or near max brightness to seconds not minutes. Avoid using in sunlight whenever possible. A 50% max limit except for some vids is sensible and helps a lot. Use lower levels in dimmer light, don't burn your retinas or display out.