Related
Just got home with it and it's 1.54...
EDIT: I see HTC DEV unlock works trying now.
EDIT: HTC DEV works!!!
This is good news....what steps did you take specifically....or can you provide a link?
emplox said:
This is good news....what steps did you take specifically....or can you provide a link?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just went to HTC DEV unlock and chose "other supported devices" and did what the site said at htc dev unlock. Easy as heck.
I suspect that will be locked down in the next few days....maybe i'll bite the bullet and just buy a new one instead of waiting for used to start showing up.
For those who have unlocked already.. Want to test a recovery???... DO NOT FLASH!!. do a fastboot boot recovery-clockwork-touch-6.0.3.6-m7vzw.img
It will not harm your phone in any way if you boot. If you do happen to flash it. You better hope the recovery boots. Or you'll have to wait for a working recovery to flash
http://d-h.st/Txd
Thanks
@cstrife999 maybe you? lol
Flyhalf205 said:
For those who have unlocked already.. Want to test a recovery???... DO NOT FLASH!!. do a fastboot boot recovery-clockwork-touch-6.0.3.6-m7vzw.img
http://d-h.st/Txd
Thanks
@cstrife999 maybe you? lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No thank you sir
cstrife999 said:
No thank you sir
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may wish to reconsider. Fly is a Recovery Guru on top of nearly single handed bringing Android 4.3 to a device that would otherwise NEVER support it Then fixed everything that wasn't working with 4.2/4.3
That was fast. Nice work!
IAmTheOneTheyCallNeo said:
You may wish to reconsider. Fly is a Recovery Guru on top of nearly single handed bringing Android 4.3 to a device that would otherwise NEVER support it Then fixed everything that wasn't working with 4.2/4.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh? I think perhaps I worded that wrong. He thanked me I meant no as in thank you don't thank me lol.
Has anyone tested moonshine yet?
emplox said:
Has anyone tested moonshine yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Considering they are trying a root method something tells me it may be dangerous to just use moonshine right now. Wow though day one and we have alot done already . Well sleepy time soon.
My device is frozen in bootloader after booting the file...
EDIT: Crap... Umm it won't reboot...
EDIT: Got it to boot up. Doesn't look like it works yet (recovery that is.)
cstrife999 said:
My device is frozen in bootloader after booting the file...
EDIT: Crap... Umm it won't reboot...
EDIT: Got it to boot up. Doesn't look like it works yet (recovery that is.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. for the HTC One. If you fastboot boot the recovery. If it doesn't like it. It will freeze for ~20seconds then reboot just fine.
I have another if you want to test for me also. If this one does work. I have a pretty big surprise. haha
http://vp-zp.com/snuzzo/roms/flyhalf205/cm10.2/m7vzw/recovery.img
Flyhalf205 said:
Thanks. for the HTC One. If you fastboot boot the recovery. If it doesn't like it. It will freeze for ~20seconds then reboot just fine.
I have another if you want to test for me also. If this one does work. I have a pretty big surprise. haha
http://vp-zp.com/snuzzo/roms/flyhalf205/cm10.2/m7vzw/recovery.img
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same as before boot instead of flash?
cstrife999 said:
same as before boot instead of flash?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct.
Flyhalf205 said:
Correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope same issue. Unless am I supposed to be doing something else after?
cstrife999 said:
nope same issue. Unless am I supposed to be doing something else after?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing it right. Guess we'll have to wait for Indirect to get the boot.img or recovery.img out before we get a custom recovery. But if those don't work still. Then we'll have to flash instead of boot.
This is amazing! Just unlocked my bootloader with HTCDev. I didn't think that would be possible! Thanks!
....Deleted....
Hi guys. I have a problem with my M8 (international).
Start topic was here http://forum.xda-developers.com/att...-boots-fastboot-factory-t2952954#post57042833 but I took an advice and open the same topic in general theme.
Hi everyone. I got a problem with my HTC M8.
First of all, I didn't make with it any changes (as unlock bootloader, root or installing any custom OS or recovery etc.) Week ago I left device, connected to PC for all night, and, I gess, with "bad" micro-USB cable.
Next day I couldn't boot this phone. I connected it to charger and after little time it was loaded to fastboot. But up today I can't do anything with phone: I can't unlock it, can't factory reset, can't boot to recovery etc...
I tried to find any same simptomes in google, but found nothing
As you can see on screenshots, I made steps for unlock bootloader but on device I didn't see notification about unlocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you help me with advices? Thanks.
I'm taking a bit of a guess but some how system has got wipe but that seems a bit off for a locked phone but since it's locked I would take it back to where you got it from and get them to sort it.
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Darknites said:
since it's locked I would take it back to where you got it from and get them to sort it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would normally say the same. But the OP mentioned in another thread posted in the wrong forum section (linked in his post) that he bought from Canada but lives in Ukraine, so I think warranty is not valid. It would have been helpful for the OP to give all the relevant details in this new post.
I agree, it looks like his OS and possibly recovery have somehow become wiped, corrupted, or damaged. Not common for a stock device, but not unheard of, either.
MaggiMag363 said:
Hi guys. I have a problem with my M8 (international).
Start topic was here http://forum.xda-developers.com/att...-boots-fastboot-factory-t2952954#post57042833 but I took an advice and open the same topic in general theme.
Could you help me with advices? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
I had a similar problem to you where I was stuck in fastboot mode and the only command it would execute was POWER DOWN and when switched back on it returned to fastboot mode. However I ended up in that state due to making a mistake in trying to unlock and root my phone. Also I believe my display showed the RADIO and OpenDSP details rather than the INVALID_VER_INFO that your's is showing.
I thought I had deleted the rom and recovery on my device and I had bricked my phone however I was able to recover my phone by getting a new unlocktoken from HTC and flashing it.
Once I had successfully unlocked my phone I had access to my rom and recovery.
I see from your first image that you tried to unlock your phone and it shows that 'unlock token check successful' but images 2 and 3 show that the phone is still 'LOCKED' so it may be worth going to the HTC site, get a new unlock token and try again.
If it doesn't work, it shouldn't do anymore harm either!
Best of luck.
I see from your first image that you tried to unlock your phone and it shows that 'unlock token check successful' but images 2 and 3 show that the phone is still 'LOCKED' so it may be worth going to the HTC site, get a new unlock token and try again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I did this And in consol I saw that everything was fine, but on device I didn't see standart notification about unlocking.
A found some topics about "INVALID_VER_INFO" - and they said that it can be ok for some devices (guys checked this on their worked devices, booted to fastboot and saw the same).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2715056 here is the topic about "INVALID...".
btw - I tried unlock phone after another man. He did the same - receive .bin from dev. HTC site etc. I did the same, but from another HTC dev. account and result was the same Phone didn't unlock.
It could be that the recovery has got messed up because I believe recovery is used to do it since unlocking will wipe data. The only things I can think of is a real ruu as in it full rom and firmware exe (good luck with that) or you could try just firmware ruu, riff box or HTC themselves.
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Darknites said:
It could be that the recovery has got messed up because I believe recovery is used to do it since unlocking will wipe data. The only things I can think of is a real ruu as in it full rom and firmware exe (good luck with that) or you could try just firmware ruu, riff box or HTC themselves.
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the riff box but without needed pin-outs (http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/...x-Flex-font-b-cable-b-font-for-Samsumg-LG.jpg I'm talking about these pin-outs). And my previous experience with riff box and Samsung S3 was not very good)))) I had been fixing it during 2 months
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqygsy7ku7o37j5/M8-DEBUG.doc?dl=0
Pin out.
i have the same problem my device is htc m8_TL
and it still in fastboot
but i have cwm
can anyone help me ?
elawady.2014 said:
i have the same problem my device is htc m8_TL
and it still in fastboot
but i have cwm
can anyone help me ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does cwm boot?
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
[/COLOR]
Darknites said:
Does cwm boot?
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes it's boot
and now i install stock rom via it
i think it's for inernational
so camera not work and wifi not work ??
please help me i can't find any solve
elawady.2014 said:
yes it's boot
and now i install stock rom via it
i think it's for inernational
so camera not work and wifi not work ??
please help me i can't find any solve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure of good place for stock roms sorry.
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Darknites said:
Not sure of good place for stock roms sorry.
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but how can i work wifi and camera ?
elawady.2014 said:
but how can i work wifi and camera ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure but you could give twrp a try to wipe and flash.
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Darknites said:
Not sure but you could give twrp a try to wipe and flash.
Sent from my One M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok thanks but i can't install other custom recovery
i have 3 backup by cwm and nandroid to my old rom
but when i restore it it not restore
do u know why ?
if other way to restore backup ?
elawady.2014 said:
i have the same problem my device is htc m8_TL
and it still in fastboot
but i have cwm
can anyone help me ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey man. Sorry but your problem not the same. You installed custom OS and it could be the reason of this. I install nothing. I have full stock device. And my problem not the same with your problem. Could you create new topic please?
Venomtester said:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqygsy7ku7o37j5/M8-DEBUG.doc?dl=0
Pin out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. But my skill too low for soldering these small parts I talked about completed pin-out connectors for JTAG. I tried to find them on EBAY and other JTAG stores, and failed (look at screenshot with these pin-outs higher).
Could anyone help with RUU process? What information I should have for correct RUU update? I found this post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2729173 but I'm not sure that I have SPRINT device.
I need an information, how I can be sure, that I use correct file for RUU my HTC? Is it bootloader version, or operator version (Sprint, Verison etc.) or something else? As I wrote, I can open information about my phone in Fastboot (I can check my SN, CID, bootloader version etc.)
MaggiMag363 said:
Could anyone help with RUU process? What information I should have for correct RUU update? I found this post http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2729173 but I'm not sure that I have SPRINT device.
I need an information, how I can be sure, that I use correct file for RUU my HTC? Is it bootloader version, or operator version (Sprint, Verison etc.) or something else? As I wrote, I can open information about my phone in Fastboot (I can check my SN, CID, bootloader version etc.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a ruu to work it needs to have matching cid, guess mid and has to be same version or higher than what's on the phone. You can't flash the wrong one it won't let you.
Edit, also the one you linked to won't work.
Darknites said:
For a ruu to work it needs to have matching cid, guess mid and has to be same version or higher than what's on the phone. You can't flash the wrong one it won't let you.
Edit, also the one you linked to won't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. And Can I flash version with unlocked bootloader and custom recovery, for example? (I said that there are a lot of recovery but they are custom. Is it ok for me or I should find pack with all stock?)
guess mid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's unknown letters for me. Would you describe what did you mean? Thanks.
[SOLVED] I followed this thread to get everything updated and make sure I was all stock, and then went to bootloader and ran fastboot flashing lock to relock the bootloader. Everything working great now.
I'm trading my Verizon Pixel XL for a normal Pixel, and need to relock the bootloader first. I haven't installed a custom kernal or ROMs or anything, so can I just lock via fastboot safely?
I don't want to do something that will brick it!
I'm aware this is stupid and I'd rather just leave it, but dude is sketched out by warning on startup and won't trade till it's gone :/
Thanks!
[Edit] it should maybe be noted that I haven't installed any updates since rooting, and I'm not sure if those are important first or not?
burnface said:
[SOLVED] I followed this thread to get everything updated and make sure I was all stock, and then went to bootloader and ran fastboot flashing lock to relock the bootloader. Everything working great now.
I'm trading my Verizon Pixel XL for a normal Pixel, and need to relock the bootloader first. I haven't installed a custom kernal or ROMs or anything, so can I just lock via fastboot safely?
I don't want to do something that will brick it!
I'm aware this is stupid and I'd rather just leave it, but dude is sketched out by warning on startup and won't trade till it's gone :/
Thanks!
[Edit] it should maybe be noted that I haven't installed any updates since rooting, and I'm not sure if those are important first or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey man, do you remember which FW built were you on ? NDE63X ?
andrep182 said:
Hey man, do you remember which FW built were you on ? NDE63X ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes if you are stock you can safely lock the bootloader.
run
fastboot flashing lock
phone will factory reset and appear frozen on that screen 30seconds or so.
milan187 said:
Yes if you are stock you can safely lock the bootloader.
run
fastboot flashing lock
phone will factory reset and appear frozen on that screen 30seconds or so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool man, thanks!
andrep182 said:
Hey man, do you remember which FW built were you on ? NDE63X ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn. I honestly don't remember... I didn't do enough with that phone for anything specific to stick out.. Sorry!
burnface said:
Damn. I honestly don't remember... I didn't do enough with that phone for anything specific to stick out.. Sorry!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's all good man. My heart was pounding as I about to hit 'yes' for locking my bootloader. Did the deed and all is well =) Thanks!
hi guys please help me i get this error on the screen ". The device will not start." and i can't use my phone, i can't enter the recovery mode (i get the same error) and the device state locked ! please help me
19 views no reply ! Up
Chouiyekh said:
19 views no reply ! Up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried reflashing stock?
djcrystals said:
Tried reflashing stock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can't because the bootloader is locked, please help to find a way to revive my mobile (i don't know i there is a box or something else to install the os even the bootloader locked)
the problem happened when i tried to relock the bootloader, unfortunately i don't know the place of purchase because i'm a second hand and i don't know the person who sold me the phone where to live we just met through the internet and we don't have google support in Morocco
Chouiyekh said:
i can't because the bootloader is locked, please help to find a way to revive my mobile (i don't know i there is a box or something else to install the os even the bootloader locked)
the problem happened when i tried to relock the bootloader, unfortunately i don't know the place of purchase because i'm a second hand and i don't know the person who sold me the phone where to live we just met through the internet and we don't have google support in Morocco
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you were not on full stock rom without root, or anything custom, and you turned off OEM unlocking and USB debugging, then locked the bootloader, you are basically hosed my friend
Look at this point it just needs to be said... PEOPLE STOP RE-LOCKING THE DARN BOOTLOADER!!
PERIOD!!
There are literally a half dozen posts this week with probably bricked phones and a good amount of them are this same root cause.
CyberpodS2 said:
Look at this point it just needs to be said... PEOPLE STOP RE-LOCKING THE DARN BOOTLOADER!!
PERIOD!!
There are literally a half dozen posts this week with probably bricked phones and a good amount of them are this same root cause.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your preaching to the choir ol friend! While I agree with you 100%, some things are best learned the hard, and expensive way! I've done it twice myself.
The carpenters rule should apply to these phones as well...."measure twice, cut once" :good:
I remember and I'm sure that i left USB debugging enabled, and the bootloader locked, so is there any hope ?
Chouiyekh said:
I remember and I'm sure that i left USB debugging enabled, and the bootloader locked, so is there any hope ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you leave OEM unlocking on as well? And, were you on full stock, non rooted rom?
Badger50 said:
Did you leave OEM unlocking on as well? And, were you on full stock, non rooted rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i left it in this case, OEM unlocking OFF and USB debugging ON, and i was on full stock, rooted rom , the problem happened when i tried to unroot and relock the bootloader
any hopes please please guys, i'm ready to donate for the one who will help i promise
Chouiyekh said:
any hopes please please guys, i'm ready to donate for the one who will help i promise
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My friend.....you could give me or anybody else 10 thousand bucks, and it's still not going to solve your problem I'm sorry to say. You should have unrooted the phone first, then fastbooted the factory image, or do a factory reset, and made sure that OEM unlocking & USB debugging were left on until you were done locking the bootloader. Sorry man, but there's not much you can do without at least a stock recovery, so....accept the loss, learn from your mistake, and move on. Many of us here, including myself, have been there as well. What you choose to learn from it is up to you
Badger50 said:
My friend.....you could give me or anybody else 10 thousand bucks, and it's still not going to solve your problem I'm sorry to say. You should have unrooted the phone first, then fastbooted the factory image, or do a factory reset, and made sure that OEM unlocking & USB debugging were left on until you were done locking the bootloader. Sorry man, but there's not much you can do without at least a stock recovery, so....accept the loss, learn from your mistake, and move on. Many of us here, including myself, have been there as well. What you choose to learn from it is up to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much, i will accept this loss as you said and absolutely i will learn from it. Tupac was right " that which does not kill me can only make me stronger "
Chouiyekh said:
Thank you so much, i will accept this loss as you said and absolutely i will learn from it. Tupac was right " that which does not kill me can only make me stronger "
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem my friend. As they say "s#*t happens"
And your quote isn't from Tupac, it's from the philosopher Frederick Nietzsche in 1888. :laugh:
Badger50 said:
No problem my friend. As they say "s#*t happens"
And your quote isn't from Tupac, it's from the philosopher Frederick Nietzsche in 1888. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easy to mistake the two...
Badger50 said:
No problem my friend. As they say "s#*t happens"
And your quote isn't from Tupac, it's from the philosopher Frederick Nietzsche in 1888. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahaha, what a big mustache he has
CyberpodS2 said:
Easy to mistake the two...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh absolutely it is! Almost like twins! ???
Badger50 said:
Oh absolutely it is! Almost like twins!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Chouiyekh said:
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have you tried flashing the official ota image as that doesnt require an unlocked bootloader so it coud be worth a shot
kevtrysmoddin said:
have you tried flashing the official ota image as that doesnt require an unlocked bootloader so it coud be worth a shot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are correct. Unfortunately, he has no stock recovery anymore
I've tried to lock the bootloader. But after locking the bootloader the phone restarts and shows the message that Can't Find Valid Operating System.
In FastBoot Mode it shows:
Secure Boot -Yes
Device State - Locked
My Bootloader Version - TMZ20k
Baseband Version - g8998-00253-1809191716
What's the solution?
Hope you didn't try to lock the bootloader without being fully stock...
If so, you've just bricked your phone.
If you're fully stock, you can bootloader unlock the phone again and start over.
ilal2ielli said:
Hope you didn't try to lock the bootloader without being fully stock...
If so, you've just bricked your phone.
If you're fully stock, you can bootloader unlock the phone again and start over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone was in full stock.
I didn't changed any rom.
How can I unlock the phone again and start over?
msnahad98 said:
The phone was in full stock.
I didn't changed any rom.
How can I unlock the phone again and start over?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does your computer recognize your phone?
if so make sure you have up to date adb/fastboot
boot into bootloader then open command prompt
type fastboot flashing_unlock
why did you relock your bootloader?
maybe try deuce's script or the all in one tool. They're pretty handy
Edmontonchef said:
does your computer recognize your phone?
if so make sure you have up to date adb/fastboot
boot into bootloader then open command prompt
type fastboot flashing_unlock
why did you relock your bootloader?
maybe try deuce's script or the all in one tool. They're pretty handy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes My Computer recognize my phone.
After entering this command "fastboot flashing unlock"
It Shows:
FAILED (remote: 'Flashing Unlock is not allowed')
Have you tried adb sideloading an ota file?
If that doesn't work I'm not sure what else you can do.
msnahad98 said:
I've tried to lock the bootloader. But after locking the bootloader the phone restarts and shows the message that Can't Find Valid Operating System.
In FastBoot Mode it shows:
Secure Boot -Yes
Device State - Locked
My Bootloader Version - TMZ20k
Baseband Version - g8998-00253-1809191716
What's the solution?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By chance did you turn off OEM unlocking and USB debugging before you locked the bootloader? If so, it's......Brickhouse time! :fingers-crossed:
Badger50 said:
By chance did you turn off OEM unlocking and USB debugging before you locked the bootloader? If so, it's......Brickhouse time! :fingers-crossed:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes unfortunately I've turned off OEM unlocking and USB debugging before locking the bootloader.
Isn't there any kind of solution???:crying:
If you're under warranty you can return it.
Edmontonchef said:
If you're under warranty you can return it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have any warranty.
msnahad98 said:
Yes unfortunately I've turned off OEM unlocking and USB debugging before locking the bootloader.
Isn't there any kind of solution???:crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
msnahad98 said:
I don't have any warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could try sideloading the OTA through stock recovery like @Edmontonchef suggested. I don't think it'll work, but at this point, anything is worth a try.
Could somebody PLEASE sticky a warning on every section to NOT RELOCK BOOTLOADER?? Pretty please??
CyberpodS2 said:
Could somebody PLEASE sticky a warning on every section to NOT RELOCK BOOTLOADER?? Pretty please??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that would be nice my friend, I also think that there is enough information out there already that if users were willing to search for it, they would find out quickly that this is a no no. Unless of course, it's done in the correct manner. :fingers-crossed:
Why did you relock the bootloader? What advantage did you expect to gain from that?
CyberpodS2 said:
Could somebody PLEASE sticky a warning on every section to NOT RELOCK BOOTLOADER?? Pretty please??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Badger50 said:
While that would be nice my friend, I also think that there is enough information out there already that if users were willing to search for it, they would find out quickly that this is a no no. Unless of course, it's done in the correct manner. :fingers-crossed:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean, put THAT sticky right next to the sticky that states, SEARCH FIRST, or the one that states "generic questions belong in the Q&A section for each device"?
Edited out of compassion
Az Biker said:
You mean, put THAT sticky right next to the sticky that states, SEARCH FIRST?
Or next to the sticky that states "generic questions belong in the Q&A section for each device"?
Or any of the other 100s of stickies that the vast majority never read?
Those stickies?
I'm actually AMAZED at the "right now, immediate gratification" mentality of so many people nowadays.
I have this $800+ device, I want to customize it, what should I do first?
1) read the OPs and research the guides for my device PRIOR to messing with it,
or
2) skip all the research and OPs and flash my new device the way I flashed my Note 3 from five years ago?
Who in their ever loving right mind picks 2??????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen by brother! No truer words have ever been spoken! :good:
Badger50 said:
Amen by brother! No truer words have ever been spoken! :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel bad for new members like the OP. No doubt this will be a learning moment for him, and he seems sharp enough that I think he'll be okay down the road and will do the research needed before customizing his devices.
The members who have been with Xda for years and STILL don't research, read OPs, read stickies.... those are the folks who chap my hide
Az Biker said:
I feel bad for new members like the OP. No doubt this will be a learning moment for him, and he seems sharp enough that I think he'll be okay down the road and will do the research needed before customizing his devices.
The members who have been with Xda for years and STILL don't research, read OPs, read stickies.... those are the folks who chap my hide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, don't let it get ya down Hoss! Some folks just like learning things the hard way I reckon. We both did. And, in the long run, they'll be better off for it :good: