In short:
Is there a thread somewhere stating the pro's and con's of running Android from different types of "media" (SD, NAND, EXT2)?
If there is, please provide a link, I can't seem to find anything that isn't an unanswered question or small comments.
If there isn't, let this be a starting point for those looking for the answer to this question.
Longer:
I've seen this question pop up once and again but it might be that the topic is totally exhausted and people have stopped commenting on it. I can't seem to find an answer though; What are the pro's and con's of using NAND, EXT2, FAT32 or any combination of it?
I see a couple of installation alternatives and some I have been able to conclude myself but others not.
* Running from SD-card using HaRET
This option is the slowest in terms of Android performance. It has the added value of easily getting back to Windows Mobile by rebooting the phone, gaining easy access to the SD card and manipulation options.
* Running the system AND data on NAND
This option has in my view the fastest Android experience. Access to files on the SD card is a bit more cumbersome (there is the SD card split widget APK available but I have yet to see it working) and access to files for manipulation I can't comment on (haven't gotten to that yet).
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
* Running the system AND data from EXT2
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it. Something tells me it will be slower than NAND because of SD card overhead.
* Running the system from EXT2 and data on NAND
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it.
Now, I've missed out on several of the installation options but I'll edit this post as soon as I get to investigating it further.
Any comments/experience/knowledge in this is greatly appreciated, as it can make things clearer as to what options to choose.
Well these are very good question and wanted to start a thread on this matter as well. I also could not find a strait answer anywhere.
I also want to know if there is an advantage using ext2 over fat32.
So, people out there having knowledge about this matter please share it.
Ext2 and Fat32 are both types of filesystem used on various different types of media, including SD card, Hard drives etc.
EXT2 is (one) of the native linux filesystems, and is fully supported in kernel, and is usually faster and more stable in that OS
FAT32 is the 32bit version of the old MSdos filesystem, used up to Windows 98, and still supported by windows machines, but slower and less stable than the native NTFS filesystem used by XP and above.
Nand is actually the type of flash ROM used by our devices, and not a filesystem as such, and running Android in Nand refers to where the information is stored, rather than the filesystem used to store it.
It's equally valid to say that we run WM in Nand also.
I think that in the case of Android EXT2 should be faster and more stable than fat32 since it's designed for Linux, and works better in that OS.
Zenity ik would like to thank you very much as this answers mij questions.
And i think this would many others aswell.
Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.
Thank you all!
Thank you all for commenting! I will add your comments to the Android-wiki I'm building as this question could come back repeatedly from newcomers (and old ones who forgot )!
boli99 said:
Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a program for allowing the mounting of EXT2 file systems on windows, however they are not signed. This is more problematic in Windows that are 64bit. The program is called 'ext2fsd' and you can get it from source forge. EXT2 is a better file system, and does not have the 4GB file size limit, and does not fragment (although on a SD card, this should not be an issue). EXT2 also has file permissions that Linux understands. Fat32 has no Access control file permissions.
I have just recently got polymod's eclair running with both system and data on ext2 partitions.
my question is...
I am just wondering what the boot order is...
and where(if possible) can it be changed?
system.img in the andboot folder VS system on partition.
I know it can be set in the installer. but lets say I had installed system on ext2 partition. and then later placed a system.img in the andboot folder.
can I swap between the two?
OK...
I figured it out myself,
You can use the installer to select boot options (Not just options to install)
so I have a system and data on partitons. (currently using)
and I also have a second build installed to .img files in the andboot folder. (for failsafe backup)
if I want to swap from one into the other
I enter installer and change the settings for the system and data to
their respective locations and then just QUIT.
I also still have a donut build in the android folder. as well as still running winmo.
quad boot system on my phone...LOL
Now thats a neat use of the installer, I think this find deserves it's own thread in fact, I'm certain others will find it useful
Tanks !
binlabin said:
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done some tries with this doing the partitioning from within android and then formatting the FAT32 partition from Windows 7 but the FAT32 partition doesn't work very well afterward. Really slow and sometimes crashes the explorer. Propably something to do with my SD-card. May try doing the partitioning and formatting from Linux to see if it works better.
Seems to me the main advantage of this option is to increase the size of available data storage which i suspect can become a limitation sooner or later in a pure NAND install.
EDIT: Now I've done it and gone NAND-System + EXT2-Data... Partitioned the SD-card from Ubuntu with gparted. Resized the FAT32 partition and created 3 primary EXT2 partitions. only the second (partition 3) should be used though with the setup I am using. It's charging right now so I haven't tried it out much yet but I will later on. However I noticed that I now have 171Mb free phone storage instead of 30-something that I had before (same apps installed).
EDIT2: Ran gparted again and shrinked the unused partition (partition 2) and expanded the data partition (partition 3) so I now have 369Mb free "Internal phone storage". Haven't noticed any speed differences between this and when I had data on NAND.
nand
By then one question:
If im install android in the NAND is more fast ready? But this process erase WM6?
Because now android work good in my HTC TYNT II but the camera and bluetooth not work and have one or two performance problems and for this dont like delete WM6 of my phone, and for this im use Android from my SD.
But look the NAND option because have a problems with the time live of my battery only lasts 5hours with android and SD.
Thanks for your help and cooperation
excellent thread which answers some questions that I had. Thanks to everyone who contributed. The only question remaining though and I have posted this elsewhere without getting an answer:
I partitioned a 2 gb sdcard with ~1.6gb Fat32 and the rest as a single Ext2. I selected system on nand and data on ext2 in the installer. After installation, it does show alot more memory for data as compared to data on nand, BUT I also have a data.img in andboot which is in the Fat32 partition, with a size around 250mb. The question is, is the data in that file or on ext2? If I backup data from installer, it creates a databackup.img in andboot with the same size as data.img. Seems to me the ext2 partition is just taking up space and not being used. Can anyone more knowledgeable shed some light on this? Thanks.
Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest
As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.
zenity said:
Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea, I'll try this on the weekend. I wont delete data though, I'll just rename andboot and backup data for good measure, because I want to be able to go back to the data by renaming it back if it doesn't work. I was also thinking if there is any way to get to the ext2 partition and read it... I'm on xp so I cant do it on my pc, and on the phone, I've looked around in astro n other file managers but cant see anything. But if the case is as golfnz34me points out, then I should just backup the data, and change the option to Fat32 in install and restore data. That should do the trick.
golfnz34me said:
As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will check this out. If its true, then great, more speed for my /data! I wonder how I missed this, been going through these forums regularly...
Ok I checked it out, and golfnz34me is correct it seems.
But now I found a new problem. I backed up data, and in the installer, set the data to SDCard, and tried to restore data. It gives various errors like
Code:
cannot determine filesystem size
failed
failed to format
...some other lines...
losetup: /dev/block/loop2: no such device or address
I created the partition with Paragon partition manager, and after getting this error I rechecked in PPM. I reformated the partition, but still get the error. In PPM the partition drive letter isnt assigned. Or, the partition isnt the active partition. Can one of those be the problem? The volume name is Ext2. Im not very experienced in partitioning etc, apart from normal ntfs partition for new hds in windows, so I didnt play with any options. I dont have a linux system either. Any got any ideas? Any help would be appreciated alot!
Not sure about using partition managers other than gparted, afaik most people are using the Gparted live cd if they don't have a linux install handy.
The errors all point to some sort of problem with the EXT2 partition, or it's formatting.
Also EXT2 partitions do not have drive letters, nor do they have to be active partitions.
Apps and data on SD card.
I cant seem to figure out how to make all the apps and other stuff install to the SD card. Do I have to partition the card into two partitions? or is there a way to install the system to Nand and make all the apps and data go to the SD card? Ive tried setting it to System on nand and data on SD partition but it says no partitions to install to or something.
Well, first of all, hello everybody!, as you may see I'm fairly new.
So, to begin with the question I'll give you guys the description of my problem:
I've the stock, slow, 16 GB micro SD class 2 card that comes with the Xperia Play. I've been trying to save to get a nicer one, but they're very expensive here in Mexico.
Since a while ago I've been reading about the SD-Ext partition (I know, I know, Gingerbread now supports moving apps to the SD, but I want the widgets and also I want to install a linux distro on my phone and that partition would be convenient ), so I decided to make it, but since I have no other SD and the one I got is almost full (I could surely make some space in my SD but this idea has potential, I needed to try, also, I really enjoy complicating this sort of things ) I made a disk image of that partition with dd on linux. Went trough a lot of complications, but finally, with the help of CIFS Manager I managed to "loop" mount that image on the /mnt/sdcard folder.
My configuration ended like this:
/mnt/sdcard - Disk Image over WiFi (FAT ~15 GiB)
/mnt/sd-ext - /dev/block/mmcblk0p2 (Ext2 1.5 GiB)
unmounted - /dev/block/mmcblk0p1 (FAT 13 GiB)
unmounted - /dev/block/mmcblk0p3 (Swap ~330MiB)
(I'll mount them once I solve this)
The only problem I've now is that my applications "installed" on that disk image are not available, they are on the app drawer, but it says "Application not found" (I ran ls on /sdcard and I could see every folder, even Android settings, on the storage section says that I've 14.83 GB of Total Sapce, clearly the image, not the actual SD).
And here it comes, the real question ... Is there any way I can reload/rescan my apps without rebooting so I can then move them to SD-Ext or any other workaround?
Thanks for your patience reading this
Additional info:
R800a
Stock ROM
DooMLoRD's DooMKernel v8 (for CIFS/NFS support)
FW .42
OK so I gave up, I wanted to use my phone and couldn't find a way to fix it, so I made some space, shrink, made new partitions etc etc.
As a matter of fact it was a nice way to see how much of an actual linux installation I can use on an Android, and I was very pleased.
If anyone is interested on what I did so far (I think I'm not the first man to accomplish something like this) I'll explain on later posts, if not, just let this thread die.
Hello!
While trying to install S2E i managed to partially ruin the functionality of my phone. I have an HTC Desire (GSM) running Cyanogenmod 7.1 stable release. I have S-off, root and ClockworkMod Recovery v5.0.2.0.
(I wanted to install a new SD card. In the process I managed to loose all my previous SD card data and I only have a 2 months old back-up from when I was running a different android version, so that will not be very helpful at recuperating many things, but even without the old SD card my phone was still operating correctly besides being unable to run the apps installed on the card. I presume this issue is unrelated to my current problem.)
Here is how I've think I've broken the phone:
- I used Gparted to format a new 8 GB microSD card (class 6) with 1 GB ext4 partition and a FAT32 partition.
- I installed S2E and checked all the options for the OS to use the external storage on the SD card partition.
- It turned out that my partition was not correctly identified by the OS (probably the issue was with using the built-in card reader of the laptop and not a stand alone USB card reader).
- I booted into Recovery Mode and re-formated the SD card with 1 GB of ext3, 32 GB of Swap and the rest as fat.
- After the restart the boot process took a very long time. When the OS finally booted I practically had a fresh install with none of my old settings available (shortcuts, wallpaper, apps etc.). Even the apps stored on the local memory disappeared (S2E, ROM manager, gmail, market etc.) and my home button no longer works. I am unable to receive phone calls since the phone automatically rejects incoming calls. I see incoming calls in the call log and I can make outgoing calls.
I presumed the issue is with mounting the sd-ext partition, but even if I tried to manually mount it after boot I see no change.
I followed these guides to install parted and use 32fsck to see if the partitions are corrupt. I think I have no problems.
Here are the code reports of running parted:
Code:
parted /dev/block/mmcblk0
GNU Parted 1.8.8.1.179-aef3
Using /dev/block/mmcblk0
Welcome to GNU Parted! Type 'help' to view a list of commands.
(parted) print
print
print
Model: SD 00000 (sd/mmc)
Disk /dev/block/mmcblk0: 7965MB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos
Number Start End Size Type File system Flags
1 32.3kB 6909MB 6909MB primary fat32 lba
2 6909MB 7933MB 1024MB primary ext3
3 7933MB 7965MB 32.0MB primary linux-swap(v1)
and e2fsck:
Code:
e2fsck /dev/block/mmcblk0p2
e2fsck 1.41.6 (30-May-2009)
sd-ext: clean, 1091/499712 files, 129331/999425 blocks
Here is my fstab as well:
Code:
/dev/block/mtdblock4 /cache yaffs2 rw
/dev/block/mtdblock5 /data yaffs2 rw
/dev/block/mtdblock3 /system yaffs2 rw
/dev/block/mmcblk0p1 /sdcard vfat rw
/dev/block/mmcblk0p2 /sd-ext ext3 rw
I presume that a fresh OS install will fix the issues. However I hope I can recover the settings stored on the ROM if I fix the sd-ext partition issue.
I will appreciate any suggestions you might have.
ps: adb push and fstab pull is working only when phone is in Recovery. If the CM7.1 is booted there is no fstab in /etc.
Had a similar issue sometime ago. Sorry to say couldn't fix it. In fact I would say the amount of time you spend trying to fix that issue will outway a fresh install.
If you can do a full backup still and save it to your pc you could do a fresh install and work on the issue without loss of phone functionality. Just my thoughts...
Thanks for your advice!
I ended up going for a fresh install with CM7.1 and S2E.
Thinks are ok now the only problem I have is that I don't see the 1 GB of available space reported correctly. Something like 152 MB is free and a negative value is reported as the used space. The CM option of using expanded internal storage is dimmed but I am not sure if that should be different.
mindcsrusher said:
Thanks for your advice!
I ended up going for a fresh install with CM7.1 and S2E.
Thinks are ok now the only problem I have is that I don't see the 1 GB of available space reported correctly. Something like 152 MB is free and a negative value is reported as the used space. The CM option of using expanded internal storage is dimmed but I am not sure if that should be different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. Glad you sorted the issue.
I know with a2sd using standard settings won't show the true size of the parition wont be reported. Something to do with the way it works. If it's working well and letting you install apps with no problems I wouldn't worry too much about
I have been trying all day to figure out how to partition my sdhc card to use for Link2sd and have not been able to find a solution. Can someone please help me with this issue?
Questions go in Q&A
Thread moved
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Just why not use CWM or TWRP recovery to do this? That's convenient, professional and on-the-go
Sent from HTC Incredible S @ CM10.1
If anyone can help with ideas/tips...
I am having trouble trying to set up a correct/valid SD card partition again that I can use with the Link2SD app.
I am using the latest version of Link2SD (3.4.5), and running latest CM 11 Nightly (cm-11-20140430-NIGHTLY-epicmtd.zip)
I had this working before (a few weeks ago), using Minitool Partition Wizard to create a 1GB partition with ext2 file system.
Since then I did a wipe on the phone, and have been trying to get it set up again like I had it before.
However, now when I try setting up partition and Link2SD, it seems to work at first (it seems to recognize the partition and let me move apps there via 'Create link') - *BUT* if I ever reboot the phone, then the linked apps are not recognized - it's like they vanished! Even though I am not getting any errors about the partition, it is like it can't see it, or the links don't work or something.
I have tried several times 'Recreate Mount Scripts' and reboot, etc. but it has not helped so far.
I have tried this with ext2 (which I know did work for me in the past), ext3, and ext4, but each of those does not seem to work.
I did have luck with a FAT32 partition, but that does not let me take advantage of the latest Link2SD feature to 'Link internal data'...
I guess I am getting extremely frustrated because I know that at least etx2 *should* work, since I had it working before...
If anyone reading this is successfully using CM 11 and Link2SD, can you explain details of how you set up your partition to work (expecially if you have it able to work with something other than FAT32)
I have looked at all sorts of websites/tutorials (which are often slightly outdated, or written for other phones), but I was wondering if I could maybe get details from someone actually using this on their Epic 4G, so that I can compare notes exactly (I am afraid that maybe I am just missing one little detail to make this work correctly like it did before?!)
Thanks in advance to anyone who read this far and can offer any tips, or just explain details of how you created your partition.
Another thing I have noticed... when I create my 2nd 1GB partition of ext2, and try going through this process I described above... as I said it appears to work, up until I reboot, and then apps that were linked are gone... and then if I hook back up to the PC and run Minitool Partition Wizard again, then the 2nd partition now shows as "other" instead of "ext2".
connect your phone to computer and open minitool partition wizard. if you want to create a new partition, the function Create Partition can help you. You need to use Resize partition to get some space from one partition. There will occure an unallocated partition in minitool, then right click and choose Create Partition. You can type the partition label and choose the file system and drive letter. Hope it helps.
leafwarbler said:
connect your phone to computer and open minitool partition wizard. if you want to create a new partition, the function Create Partition can help you. You need to use Resize partition to get some space from one partition. There will occure an unallocated partition in minitool, then right click and choose Create Partition. You can type the partition label and choose the file system and drive letter. Hope it helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your reply was a little late. Are you using internet explorer?
Initially Titanium Backup's "move to SD" feature looked like a great way to use tools I was already familiar with to make the most of limited internal storage. While searching for answers on how to set up what TB needed, it became clear that pretty much any similar app or solution - e.g. Mounts2SD - would need this partition mounted to function properly.
Problem is I can't seem to get it to work, despite trying EVERYthing that all of xda forums and Google can tell me. And there's a lot of info on this topic.
This is the mount command in Terminal emulator:
Code:
su
busybox mount -t ext4 /dev/block/mmcblk1p2 /sd-ext
(where I've confirmed that /dev/block/mmcblk1p2 is the partition I want to mount, ext4 is replaced by correct filesystem, and /sd-ext exists and is the desired mount point.)
It seems to go fine... I don't get any errors or feedback. But TB doesn't detect the partition even after adding an "app" folder using "mkdir" command.
Here's way more info than necessary about my situation in case it might help...
Device is SM-113, KK 4.4.4. Rooted, stock everything, selectively debloated using Titanium Backup Pro
Recovery is TWRP 3.0.0
Busybox by Stericson from Google Play
This is what I've done, in all possible combinations:
— Have used 3 separate SD cards: 32GB fresh out of the package (largest size officially supported by this tab) and 2 used 64GB (no documentation but it mounted and works fine for regular storage!)
— Used TWRP, AParted (from Play store) and Minitool (on Windows) to create the partitions
— 2nd partition formatted as ext2 & ext4 (read somewhere that ext3 wasn't a good idea...)
— Size of the 2nd partition ranging from less than 10% of SD card size up to 10GB
— Mounting to /sd-ext, /system/sd, and /data/sd (per TB's knowledgebase, linked above )
I've also attempted using a few apps from Google PIay as recommended by various threads on the subject from this forum (don't even remember which but I can look them up if necessary). I've since wiped and restored a nandroid backup so that none of these can potentially get in the way.
This IS working on my (also stock, MM 6.0.1) Galaxy S5 (G900W8) with one of the cards that didnt work on this tab - a 4GB ext4 partition on a 64GB SD card. After TB recognized it I set up init.d support and it happily mounts on every boot.
So it looks like it's something to do with this device, which sadly has extremely limited space that makes me want to cry. Therefore, I hope someone else with the 113 can lend a hand.
If necessary, I'm totally willing to flash stock, re-root, and set everything up again in order to make this work!
Not too sure. I use Aparted and Link2SD on a couple of my older toys...lol. I use ext 3 too. I have a 210, I'll play with it and see if I can figure it out.
Thanks @RealWelder! Don't know if that'll help as it's a different device, but let me know what, if anything, you figure out.
Personally, I'm going to give it another shot using the 'Mounts2SD' app (even though I'd wanted to do this WITHOUT any new apps... oh well, if it works at least I'll have plenty of space!)
I got it to work! *happy dance* Absolutely NO idea exactly what did it, but there was a lot of fiddling with permissions, and rebooting, and painfully typing "mount -t ext4 etc. etc." into terminal, and making adjustments to init.d scripts until finally ... TB recognized it.
Thank you XDA forum!
Sent from my Samsung SM-T113 using XDA Labs