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every review i've read online before i bought the unit was boasting about how "finger-friendly" the TP2 was, and that you could lightly swipe your finger across it to navigate the menu and that the touchscreen was very sensitive and whatnot
however after 2 weeks of use i find that to be relatively untrue. i've got to apply a fair amount of pressure on the screen to get it to register my input. of course, i'm posting this because i'm afraid that i might be damaging the screen in the process
i have no basis for comparison actually, my only 2 other touchscreen devices at home are an iphone and a cowon s9, both use capacitive screens. i always knew there was a big difference between capacitive screens and resistive screens, i just didn't know it was THIS huge. i can actually slide my finger lightly over the iphone's surface and its registered properly. the sliding probably feels smoother as its glass, but i can live with the TP2's plastic. what do you guys think ? should i get it checked out at the HTC store ?? its on the other side of town, don't wanna waste a trip as if its not a problem
oh yeah and just to get this out of the way, the screen is a membrane and not a hard surface right ?? everytime i press on the screen using my finger or the stylus, i can feel the screen slightly moving down, can also see the surface getting slightly dented at the point my finger pushes it if looking at it from a certain angle.
ps before somebody asks: i only got to test the keyboard at the telco store, some punk had cracked the screen of the display set, so i didn't know about this screen issue until i actually purchased the set
sorry for the long post, but i'd really appreciate any comments
TIA
Well, I don't have an Iphone so i can't tell you about how it compares with the TP2, however, i found the display to be much better than the one on my old XDA. It will probably never as good as a capacitive device like the touchpad on my laptop, but I found it to work very well. You have to apply a certain amount of pressue to the display, because it reacts on pressure, so I guess there is nothing wrong with that. I also see a small dent when I use the stylus and press the display. I cannot confirm the screen slightly going down when pressing it.
To summarize it, i use the Stylus 90% of the time. It glides much better on the display than my finger does so the overall experience is slightly better when using a stylus. Plus i don't get any greasy fingerprints on my display.
However the 10% I use my fingers to work on it (and 25% of that 10% is spent on polishing I found it to work pretty well, so in general I don't think that the reviews were off when it comes to finger usability.
What you are describing is probably normal. Resistive screens do require pressure. The TP2 tends to require less pressure than others, but nonetheless it does require it. There's no comparison if you compare it to a capacitive screen device because those don't require pressure at all.
The flexing of the screen that you described is something all resistive screens have. Again, if you compare the screen flex of the TP2 to earlier HTC devices, it's greatly improved.
To be on the safe side, go to a store and try out other resistive screen devices and see if you experience the same thing as your own. Then you'll know what is considered "normal".
thanks for the replies, i'll probably head down to my telco's store and see if they've replaced the display set then.
any other comments ??
You know I thought the same, waiting for a cab to increase the sensitivity because at the moment its quite annoying pressing buttons more than once...
From a few years to nowadays i´ve always used QTEK/HTC devices, my latest one is, ofcourse, HTC RHODIUM, the rom it has installed is RUU_Rhodium_HTC_PTG_1.19.410.0_Radio_Rhodium_3.44.25.27_Signed_Ship, and the screen is very sensitive and responsive, i´m just very pleased with it overall, it´s the best.
Cheers.
eXceed said:
You know I thought the same, waiting for a cab to increase the sensitivity because at the moment its quite annoying pressing buttons more than once...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you don't need .cab
just change in registry...
HKLM/drivers/Touch Driver/pressurethreshold, (default=10000)
(I might not remember perfectly, but it's something like that)
try this?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=469865
this might help just re align your screen again using little pressure then your screen will not need some much pressure to work.
I have found the this not only aligns the screen but the pressure as well.
mine I just have to lightly touch it and dont have to press very much at all.
Cheers
I HATE using the iphone that my friends have because i cannot use my nail. I am so used to using my nail since 2004. I wish they would have used resistive multi touch instead of capacitive.
Guess i will be keeping my TD 2 for a long long time.
Guess you are.
What's the point of this thread and why couldn't you just post your opinion in the "WP7 is complete fail" thread?
Capacitive are much better than resistive screens for touch screen phones and that's a fact(you just need to get used to them). For tablets it's the other way around.
It would be awesome if someone figured out a way to utilize both techs.
Toss3 said:
It would be awesome if someone figured out a way to utilize both techs.
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Click to collapse
Read through the feature list of this touchscreen technology: http://www.atmel.com/products/touchscreens/default.asp?family_id=701
The eleventh bullet point states: "Supports stylus, fingernails, and gloves". BTW this touchscreen technology is used on the HTC Droid Incredible and the HTC EVO. Maybe you could test if it works on those screens if you come across either of those phones.
Helmore said:
Read through the feature list of this touchscreen technology: http://www.atmel.com/products/touchscreens/default.asp?family_id=701
The eleventh bullet point states: "Supports stylus, fingernails, and gloves". BTW this touchscreen technology is used on the HTC Droid Incredible and the HTC EVO. Maybe you could test if it works on those screens if you come across either of those phones.
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Click to collapse
Doesn't work according to owners of the incredible.
There are resistive screens that support both nails and multitouch.
They are not supported by Microsoft however. But we might see them in other (e.g. Android) phones in the future.
shaundalglish said:
There are resistive screens that support both nails and multitouch.
They are not supported by Microsoft however. But we might see them in other (e.g. Android) phones in the future.
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Click to collapse
I don't expect any Android phones with resistive screens from any of the bigger Android supporters in the industry, like HTC for example. HTC has said that they learned from the HTC Tattoo to never do an Android phone with a resistive touchscreen again. It's simply too much of an inferior experience and that makes the higher cost of a capacitive touchscreen worth it.
The problem with a resistive touchscreen is that it reacts to pressure and not to contact. That's precisely what you need if you want to operate the touchscreen with your nails, but it just doesn't work well for all other touchscreen user interface manipulations. It's just a much more pleasant experience if the screen reacts to your input without having to barely do anything, it makes using the touchscreen a much more delightful experience.
Another problem with a resistive touchscreen is the fact that because it reacts to pressure, the screen need to be flexible. This means that you can't use a tempered glass screen or something similar on a resistive touchscreen device and you can't (or it's very very hard to) make a device with a touchscreen that's flush with its bezel. The former means that your screen a more prone to scratching and also that it makes the underlying screen a bit more vulnerable to damage.
Now I agree that a capacitive touchscreen also has its drawbacks, but for a mobile phone or a PMP a capacitive touchscreen and a finger friendly user interface is preferable in my opinion compared to a resistive touchscreen. There are other market segments and usage scenarios where a device with a resistive touchscreen is preferable to a capacitive touchscreen, for example in Postal Services where the mail man can collect a signature from you on his portable device that features a resistive touchscreen or in restaurants. But for a mobile phone I'd prefer a capacitive touchscreen simply because it's much easier to use and I don't need a stylus (too cumbersome) on a mobile phone.
This is not a resistive vs. capacitive discussion. I much prefer capacitive on phones, but here's a user who wants to use his fingernails. Hence I was just stating the facts: Microsoft does not support anything but capacitive, but we might see new resistive panels on other phones (that are different from and much better than what was used in the tattoo).
Whether you like resistive screens or not is another story.
xboxhaxorz said:
I HATE using the iphone that my friends have because i cannot use my nail. I am so used to using my nail since 2004. I wish they would have used resistive multi touch instead of capacitive.
Guess i will be keeping my TD 2 for a long long time.
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Click to collapse
I prefer resistive as well. I like to use my fingernail. I also like to draw and using a stylus on a resistive screen feels better.
But we're pretty much the odd men out, so we'll just have to get used to it.
gom99 said:
I prefer resistive as well. I like to use my fingernail. I also like to draw and using a stylus on a resistive screen feels better.
But we're pretty much the odd men out, so we'll just have to get used to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never used a capacative screen so I don't know if I will like it or not. I don't have fingernails but I do like using my pencil or stylus in class while doing math problems on my spacetime graphic calc software so It'll be interesting to see how I feel about a capacative screen.
Resistive great for sweaty palms
For a guy who's hands sweats alot, I actually had to give up my blackberry storm for a Touch pro 2... Now, I agree that the capacitive screen is very easy to manipulate but when my hands sweat 85% of the time, a resistive screen is a godsend. While the percentage of sweaty palms vs normal palms is probably very small, capacitive screens turn to shyte when water gets on it.... and when that happens, it's like I have a brick...i cannot do anything... even if my hands get clammy, the difficulty in typing or navigating the screen is "hair pulling" awful.
To be honest... I really love using my nails and a stylus... plus you have to admit...pullng out a touch pro 2 in a meeting and then using the stylus...It just brings a green hue to the room (envy) lol!
scattaman said:
For a guy who's hands sweats alot, I actually had to give up my blackberry storm for a Touch pro 2... Now, I agree that the capacitive screen is very easy to manipulate but when my hands sweat 85% of the time, a resistive screen is a godsend. While the percentage of sweaty palms vs normal palms is probably very small, capacitive screens turn to shyte when water gets on it.... and when that happens, it's like I have a brick...i cannot do anything... even if my hands get clammy, the difficulty in typing or navigating the screen is "hair pulling" awful.
To be honest... I really love using my nails and a stylus... plus you have to admit...pullng out a touch pro 2 in a meeting and then using the stylus...It just brings a green hue to the room (envy) lol!
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Click to collapse
Don't feel bad, I have Hyperhidrosis too. Probably the main reason I hate capacitive, anything I touch turns to a smudgy mess. I know you can use a stylus with a capacitive screen, but it really feels awkward with the 1cm^2 tip and the lack of precision of a real stylus. Also it's not contractable and easily stored in the device since it's not the norm to have a stylus with a capacitive screen.
I reckon y'all have got girl fingernails.
Come on guys, trim those nails, and would it kill you to use the fingernail brush every once in a while?
Capacitive screens Feck The World!
elyl said:
I reckon y'all have got girl fingernails.
Come on guys, trim those nails, and would it kill you to use the fingernail brush every once in a while?
Capacitive screens Feck The World!
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Click to collapse
you don't need a long fingernail to touch your fingernail against something...just turn your finger more so your nail makes contact with the surface before your tip does. Unless of course you have unsightly hands where your meaty part of your finger encapulates your fingernail.
Looks good , very well done!
I know they have resistive multi touch but its probably too expensive. I might end up switching to another company for phones and i would hate too as i have been a HTC user since the wing. The capacitive glassy feel is not for me, and a stylus is a must especially for drawing and hw recognition which the hd2 and iphone have none of.
xboxhaxorz said:
The capacitive glassy feel is not for me, and a stylus is a must
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Click to collapse
Same here, no stylus, no ability to use small, space efficient text....no interest.
gom99 said:
I prefer resistive as well. I like to use my fingernail. I also like to draw and using a stylus on a resistive screen feels better.
But we're pretty much the odd men out, so we'll just have to get used to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I'd also rather use my stylus because I want my phone like a mini-computer. It can't use a mouse for pin-point accuracy, but a stylus sure suffices.
I understand the world is going to capacitive touchscreens and it's a shame. I always liked resistive better. It's more accurate. I know that people want to use their finger tips to swipe and sweep and whatever, but there are plenty of limitations out there to it.
Helmore said:
Read through the feature list of this touchscreen technology: http://www.atmel.com/products/touchscreens/default.asp?family_id=701
The eleventh bullet point states: "Supports stylus, fingernails, and gloves". BTW this touchscreen technology is used on the HTC Droid Incredible and the HTC EVO. Maybe you could test if it works on those screens if you come across either of those phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wish I had 16 fingers...
You guys could always use a capacitive stylus. Remeber capacitive screen works by detecting a change of charge in the screen. Basically things that can conduct electricity should be usable as a stylus. If you're smart, you wouldn't find it hard to modify any stylus to make it work with a capacitive screen.
Else, you could buy any of the capacitive styluses online, which usually cost 3-20 dollar-ish. The fluffy tip is the best as you don't need to hold it at an angle.
I'm still waiting for my HD2 currently, and I already ordered that stylus in advance
jo_iii said:
You guys could always use a capacitive stylus. Remeber capacitive screen works by detecting a change of charge in the screen. Basically things that can conduct electricity should be usable as a stylus. If you're smart, you wouldn't find it hard to modify any stylus to make it work with a capacitive screen.
Else, you could buy any of the capacitive styluses online, which usually cost 3-20 dollar-ish. The fluffy tip is the best as you don't need to hold it at an angle.
I'm still waiting for my HD2 currently, and I already ordered that stylus in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but the capacitive stylus feels nothing like the resistive ones.
Most of the latest smartphones and upcoming phones appear to have capacative screens and they seem to be the preferred type. However, I still use a resistive screen and I recently borrowed an HTC HD2 with capactive screen and I was not that impressed.
Certainly, they do resopond to a lighter touch but for me that was an irritation as I would regularly accidentally touch/select something by mistake. My Touch Pro2 resistive screen does not require much more pressure on the screen but just enough that it is hard to select something accidentally. I also like to use my finger nail to select which of course you cannot do with a capactive screen. Selecting some of the smaller menus in Windows Mobile is quite difficult on a capactive screen.
The other reason I like using my finger nail is to minimize finger marks on the screen. I noticed when using a capactive screen that it was covered in finger marks very quickly.
So, are capactive screens really "better"? I have held off upgrading my Touch Pro2 as I do not think that capactive screens are better than some of the latter resistive screens. However, it seems that if I do want to upgrade my phone in due course I am going to have to go with a capactive screen.
Maybe my Touch Pro2 will serve me for a while longer yet!
Apparently I heard the Capactive screens dont have as accurate of touches either. But then again you have things like pinch zooming and stuff to that nature. With phones these days its all a give and a get. Your problem with thumb imprints, a lot of the newer screen protectors dont get thumbprints. My friend has an Evo with a Anti-Glare screen and he uses it so much that he carries arond two batteries with himself at all time, I have never seen a thumbprint on hisphone. Maybe its the anti-glare or the type of shield? I'm not sure. But with a damp cloth the prints go away quite easily
i never saw the benefit of pinch zooming either, it just seems like now i need 2 hands (one to hold the phone and one to pinch) to do something that only took 1 hand (double tap with my thumb while holding the phone in the same hand)
i felt that way about a lot of iphone "features" to me it just seemed like an extra step or more complex way to do something that was devised solely to justify the capacitive screen and say "looks its new and different, therefore it MUST be better!"
I'm a heavy user of Remote Desktop. I got to really sit down and play with my friends HD2 yesterday (capacitive screen). I found that I hated it. At first, the pinch & zoom with RDP is cool & looks impressive. In actual use however, I found it cumbersome and potentially dangerous. While playing with the pinch & zoom a few times with Windows Explorer open, I accidentally picked up huge chunks of my folders and dropped them somewhere else... Pressing small dialog boxes with my fat fingers was nearly impossible, and the program itself was buggy and cumbersome (sometimes very difficult to scroll to the corner to hit "X" or Start", etc.)
I'm sure some clever programmer could find a way to use these features effectively, but since WM 6.5 is essentially dead, I have to consider that this might be the *only* RDP client ever made for the HD2, and I found that it just isn't good enough.
I suspect my feelings about this will apply to many other programs when using a capacitive screen with them.
I think capacitive screens are good for telephonic use (big keys and little messages). For office use, stylus and keyboard are unsurpassed (little and accurate selections and long texts). Obviously many users are interested, understandably, to phones and producers prefer to sell more capacitive phones than a few pdaphones. Problems will come with professional and power users.
Imho.
From what little I've used them I can't stand them. I like pressing with the tip of my fingernail which obviously doesn't register. I also use the stylus quite a bit for scribbling quick notes and drawings. I've got pretty massive hands and going to press on a keyboard key is really hit or miss.
Why capacitive screens?
Because the industry follows the idiots at Apple. If apple releases something, they have to, because they are afraid of losing market share.
I'd like to see them come up with something apple DOESN'T have and spin it like his PR buddies do.
It's amazing... the iphone 4, when it was released and myself and a few of my
amateur radio buddies saw the OUTSIDE band that was an antenna we all started
laughing that it would probably have signal degradation, and sure enough, it did, because when you put your finger over the "spot", you change the wavelength of the antenna.
I'm just glad it was found to be imperfect BEFORE everyone jumped on THAT bandwagon, like they have with capacitive screens.
i think its a personal preference. I for one enjoy resistive. i like having the accurate point to highlight text where as its a pain to select text using any capacitive screen.
My gf recently got the Evo and i'm constantly pressing thing accidentally. also for the ipad, since its capacitive, thats why it doesn't have handwriting recognition. the only reason i considered getting one was because i could load up all my textbooks for my classes which would make it easier in several ways. wouldn't have to carry around a bunch of books and you good search for keywords rather than flipping through and trying to remember where that one paragraph was.
I know you can highlight, but to add notes, you have to use an onscreen keyboard. would of been much better if there was a stylus and you could just pull that out and jot down a couple notes real quick. but since its capacitive, no can do.
there was a blog (can't remember which one) which contained an article about how a new phone was coming out and the only bad thing about it was a resistive screen. The comments went ablaze with posts like in this thread. each has its pros and cons, but i prefer resistive.
I like using a stylus to tap smaller screen elements, especially with programs like remote desktop. However, after using resistive screens for the past five years, I reluctantly went capacitive with the Evo, and I have to say it wasn't that bad. I like that the screen is no longer squishy, the glass won't scratch when I clean it off my shirt, and multitouch makes it easier to zoom in to the exact size you want.
And while the Windows rdp program requires excessive pinch and zoom, the one I use on the Evo has a virtual mouse pointer, so I never have to resize the screen and I can click on even the smallest elements. I can also use my finger for larger things.
I'll see how I feel when it's 10 below and I have to answer my phone.
Hanson68 said:
I'll see how I feel when it's 10 below and I have to answer my phone.
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Click to collapse
thats true.
Last winter and it was freezing, all my iphone friends had to take they're gloves off to use their phones (although there are gloves with a static point at the end that will work on capacitive screens) but i was fine with my tilt2 and gloves. Also swype is a lifesaver in the cold and when your wearing gloves, find the right gloves with a nice point at the end, not too blunt, and works perfectly!
Gaming and other multi-touch?
Gaming is really the only advantage I can see to using a capacitive screen; that is, the fact that you can easily have multi-touch controls. There's also the benefit of multi-touch gestures that can be useful- but these all still seem pretty buggy and somewhat of a pointless novelty where I have read about them being employed. I personally do not ever want to use a capacitive touchscreen device as there is just too much sacrifice in functionality. Sad that the market is moving hard in that direction.
Will Ms only sanction the use of capacitive screens?
imaginarynumber said:
Will Ms only sanction the use of capacitive screens?
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Thankfully resistive screens are a thing of the distant past. I am only too glad to never have to change another digitizer.
Ms will only sanction capacitive screens since multitouch is a requirement for OEM's
Probably. Resistive touchscreen's aren't practical for touch-friendly interfaces.
And if you want to use a stylus (with really good precision), you'll just get a screen that has a Wacom Digitizer in it, which usually also supports Capacitive touch (like the HP Touchsmart TM2).
thanks for the replies I thought that was the case but just wanted to double check.
Yeah my gf is pretty annoyed that all the new phones won't let her use her fingernails to swipe and stuff, lol.
ericc191 said:
Yeah my gf is pretty annoyed that all the new phones won't let her use her fingernails to swipe and stuff, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These days when I use my fingernail for precision on my touch diamond 2, the digitizer gets stuck to the glass. So glad that resistive touch screens are dead
For me resistive is absolutely superior because you can navigate with anything on it.
Capactive is just "stupid".
But there are styluses for capactive, right?
doministry said:
For me resistive is absolutely superior because you can navigate with anything on it.
Capactive is just "stupid".
But there are styluses for capactive, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well capacitive screens are much better than resistive and yeah there are a few styluses for capacitive screens.
Phone Titan said:
Well capacitive screens are much better than resistive and yeah there are a few styluses for capacitive screens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's an HTC one, but it looks really weird.
Link
Video Demonstration
I actually prefer the precision of the resistive screen. Sure, image quality is lower but my phone is a work tool rather than a portable dvd player or games console.
I liked being able to scrawl notes with my finger nail rather than using the (where's my screen gone) keyboard.
I had always thought that the need for the abiltiy to input "chinese" characters etc, would keep the resistive alive.
Frankly I don't see the big deal about multi-tap other than game playing
Oh well at least there will be more money for the third party companies that make replacement glass screens...
imaginarynumber said:
I actually prefer the precision of the resistive screen. Sure, image quality is lower but my phone is a work tool rather than a portable dvd player or games console.
I liked being able to scrawl notes with my finger nail rather than using the (where's my screen gone) keyboard.QUOTE]
I've always been partial to resistive for exactly those reasons. My wife says I look silly tapping on my handset with a stylus, but I don't mind looking like a geek from 2005. I always thought the sylus was the best thing about having a smartphone/PDA (OK, maybe I REALLY AM a geek). I used to have an aftermarket stylus for my PPC6700 with a minature pen hidden inside it - so I'd always have a pen handy. You'd be surprised how often that'll come in handy. And the stylus is handy whenever you need to reset anything with a recessed reset button.
I like getting the most amount of information on my screen at one time as possible, so I don't have to keep scrolling around. Working with a spreadsheet or word doc when you've got it zoomed out to 75% (on a WVGA screen like the touch pro 2) is simply not feasible with a fingertip.
Of course, larger screens will make a big difference, but it's going to be pretty d*mn hard for me to give up my stylus. Eventually I'm going to have to get with the program, but I don't have to like it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The largest screen size I have had to date was the 5" on the Ameo, albeit at a lower resolution. The smallest was the touch pro
As far as I am concerned the touchflo worked well on both and I didn't need a stylus as i had trained my finger nails. I don't believe that a capacitive screen would have improved my experience in any way
I like resistive screens did you try to brake one?
I dropped a Touch Diamond 2 of my motorbike on motorway at just over 70mph. It hit a car behind me. I stopped, spend 30 min looking for it. Found battery and phone and except all cover being broken all was fine.
Resistive screens on WM devices often s**k, probably because of the OS. On the other hand resistive screen on SE Satio is great. It is solid, not mushy, and very responsive.
The logical step for manufacturers would be to market both technologies, but current marketing trend dictates capacitive because... uh... I don't know. Most people I know can't distinguish between them anyway.
Btw, I had some capacitive phones to test and I really don't understand the hype around capacitive screens. It's like using a 5cm round mouse cursor...
I saw these both on Amazon and Ebay and decided to take a risk. It showed up today and I wanted to report my findings in case others are interested...
This is NOT a true S-Pen as it has no button and does not interact with the Wacom device at all (near as I can tell). It is just a basic capacitive stylus. But:
1. It is far less expensive at about $4 (true S-Pens are at least $15 from Korea on EBay and typically more).
2. It fits the silo well.
3. A side-by-side comparison shows it to be about .5 inch shorter than a true S-Pen.
4. It even will activate the capacitive touch buttons below the screen which the S-Pen will not. You do need to press harder/longer than you would think to get this to work.
5. Compared to the very rigid, pencil-like nib of the S-Pen, the tip of this feels pretty soft and flexible. It certainly feels different when doing some tasks - such as writing Graffiti input characters (which I do all the time). Not sure it is less accurate or bad in any way. Just feels quite different as the tip is soft and squishy and so there is a give in the setup that is not present at all in the S-Pen.
In some ways, this works better for me than the true S-Pen as its button gets pressed by accident some times. And the only thing I have ever used the button for was to trigger a screen shot capture and don't do that very often. The ability to trigger the touch buttons without having to switch from S-Pen to finger seems like an advantage but maybe not so much now that I have trained myself with the S-Pen.
Cheers!
Edit...
I need to add this. After only a couple day's use, this capacitive stylus has simply stopped working. No idea why. Have tried cleaning both screen and stylus tip. But the only response I get is after pressing way too hard and even then it is intermittent. So avoid these despite my original comments.
Another Edit...
I need to add this. This stylus is once again working just fine. I am not sure why. I did clean the screen this morning and perhaps that changed something. But as stated earlier I did that before without results. So the jury is still out on this one. I did, however, contact the seller on EBay and they are sending another unit free of charge.