Related
Guys,
I have been using HTC devices for many years now:
Pison 5MX, HP Jornada 720, HTC Alpin, HTC Trinity, HTC Kaiser and HTC Polaris!
The form factor of the new TP2 is brilliant.
HOWEVER, the keyboard is just not designed very efficiently for me because it is half of the size of the total width. Which means that the rear part is not used for the keyboard.
I would have preferred a FULL keyboard such as the one on the HTC Universal or on the Psion 5MX or Jornada 720!
I don't understand the point of designing a PDA with a built-in keyboard if the keyboard is just too small which makes it even not usuable. The one on the Kaiser was so small.
HTC produced the Universal with a full sized keyboard using the full width of the screen.
Why not on the newest models?
Any ideas?
I've had a few thoughts being a long time mini-keyboard user...
It's true that a bigger keyboard can make things easier, but for typing with your thumbs, too big is also a problem due to limited reach.
Typing with a Psion 5 was not great with two thumbs, and with a phone you want to type on the go, so this is more important than 2 handed typing while at a desk / other solid surface. As most people want to carry their phone with them a Psion 5 sized phone would not be too popular!
Having a full width & height keyboard while keeping the ability to put the keyboard away (for touch screen only use) will usually require a bulky tilt & twist hinge (like on Zaurus C series, Clie UX / NX, or HTC universal), which means the screen has to be smaller / narrower. Quickly sliding out a keyboard to hammer out a text is faster than opening and then twisting a hinge.
The Kaiser keyboard was fantastic in my opinion - I could type very quickly on it, probably not far off my Psion 5 speed (as when you didn't hit the Psion keys in the centre, they did not always work).
Have you any ideas for achieving a bigger keyboard without compromising on the screen size, usability or overall size of the phone?
I don't have a problem with the Keyboard size at all. I think it's just about perfect. My problem is the fact that they made the buttons much bigger and removed 10 keys from the original touch pro. Yeah, It makes it easier for some, but I know I'd rather have the keys. The keyboard still would have had really big buttons.
As a happy Universal owner I understand very well the point of sayborg.
As far as I know the only devices with great keyboards are:
Universal
Advantage
Shift
Toth (New)
But the last 3 options are too big...
I´m in the same interrogant? I want/need to upgrade my 2005 Universal but nothing I can see in the near future as a REAL replacement
TP2 is the closer one I can think
Hope HTC have some secret devices on that form factor, but I doub it
I don't know what to think about the keyboard yet. The buttons feel good, not slippery. The number keys at the top are a pain in the ass because the lip of the top layer is slightly overlapping making it just annoying enough to bug me. On screen keyboard is pretty tight. No complaints there.
DavidMc0 said:
I've had a few thoughts being a long time mini-keyboard user...
It's true that a bigger keyboard can make things easier, but for typing with your thumbs, too big is also a problem due to limited reach.
Typing with a Psion 5 was not great with two thumbs, and with a phone you want to type on the go, so this is more important than 2 handed typing while at a desk / other solid surface. As most people want to carry their phone with them a Psion 5 sized phone would not be too popular!
Having a full width & height keyboard while keeping the ability to put the keyboard away (for touch screen only use) will usually require a bulky tilt & twist hinge (like on Zaurus C series, Clie UX / NX, or HTC universal), which means the screen has to be smaller / narrower. Quickly sliding out a keyboard to hammer out a text is faster than opening and then twisting a hinge.
The Kaiser keyboard was fantastic in my opinion - I could type very quickly on it, probably not far off my Psion 5 speed (as when you didn't hit the Psion keys in the centre, they did not always work).
Have you any ideas for achieving a bigger keyboard without compromising on the screen size, usability or overall size of the phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the comments guys!
Well, for me, it would have been nicer to keep the SAME size of the current TP2 but with a wider keyboard, this wouldn't make the device bigger because the rear part/surface of the keyboard is even not used. A wider keyboard wouldn't cost more and wouldn't be heavier.
I thing the problem is that the producers of such devices are usually not consumers. I doubt that poeple who have designed such devices have as much usage experience as us. They sometimes lack of subtilty I think.
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
There is also the Acer M900 which has an OK keyboard but it is not tilting and again the keyboard is not designed efficiently/optimally for me but again this is a personal opinion!
For me there is no point to have a 2,8 " PDA whith a build-in keyboard. Keys are just to small...
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
sayborg said:
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true that we aren't there yet, but as far as hardware I think the Rhodium is getting pretty dame close. Huge screen, sturdy construction, physical slideout keyboard, and a large enough screen that the onscreen finger keyboard is very usable. These are many things that I've been waiting for. The only thing that can make the design better is to make it thiner which will take so time in tech advancement.
I still think they shouldn't be losing some of the buttons they had on the titan/tilt style phones (d-pad and soft key hardware buttons). However, I'm probably not giving the usability of the touch interface enough credit.
As long as the software is up to par (hadware acceleration and strong usability) then it's all gravy. This is the device I've been waiting for for a long time. I'm also thinking that once it's been out a year or so The Android roms for it will be pretty advanced and very capable. Overall, this has a TON of potential and I think it will be the first phone I don't constantly look forward to the next version on.
I just hope against hope that they have enabled hardware acceleration on this phone. If we have another non-implemented 2D/3D driver while relying on CPU power for rendering gsnarfle... I'd be most unhappy.
That's one of the big reasons I'm looking to move away from my Mogul... while it's a decent phone, they seem to have shot it in the leg and then told it to go run a marathon.
It may be my ignorance to the matter, but I hope that all the touchflo3D phones have full hardware acceleration support!
sayborg said:
Thanks for the comments guys!
Well, for me, it would have been nicer to keep the SAME size of the current TP2 but with a wider keyboard, this wouldn't make the device bigger because the rear part/surface of the keyboard is even not used. A wider keyboard wouldn't cost more and wouldn't be heavier.
I thing the problem is that the producers of such devices are usually not consumers. I doubt that poeple who have designed such devices have as much usage experience as us. They sometimes lack of subtilty I think.
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
There is also the Acer M900 which has an OK keyboard but it is not tilting and again the keyboard is not designed efficiently/optimally for me but again this is a personal opinion!
For me there is no point to have a 2,8 " PDA whith a build-in keyboard. Keys are just to small...
Maybe one day, we will see the perfect HTC Device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well honestly I think I think if they used the whole width it would take up to much space be harder to reach the keys on the ends of the keyboard with your thumbs., and also the kaiser keyboard is not bad, it is very easy to type on for me and I can type fast, adn honestly I think they are making hte keyboards smaller cause its easier to use them on the go,
but look at a pic of the touch pro 2 keyaboard they did make it use mroe space, so they know what you mean it does make typing easier, but for phones with HUGE keyboards.. well most people dont want a phone that big but honestly they used almost all of the space on the touch pro 2 for the keyboard
The only thing that worries me is the lack of the windows key and the ok button. Those two will be missed greatly. Otherwise, I think the keyboard will be a huge improvement over my Mogul's.
sayborg said:
I also think that there is no perfect repalcement of the HTC Universal which is sad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh sorry. While i havent used any touch device yet, i looked at the Universal, and one word jumped out at me.. Bulky. That thing just looks to big and clunky to be of any fluid use.
I was actually happy when i saw a pitcure of the TP2 keyboard. They keys look like a good size, and the bit of space between them i was happy to see because i toyed with the fuze/tilt and i fat-fingered with that keyboard enough to annoy me.
As far as removing keys... as Ranch Wilder would say..."Less is more". Just because a device as more keys/buttons doesn't mean its better. Take the Logitech G11 keyboard. They dumped a bunch of Macro keys on it, most of which never got used, and only made the keyboard take up more space. Their next version of the G15, the removed alot of the G keys (macro keys) to cut the size down, but there's still plenty to be useful.
I think its more a matter of people being use to so many keys, however i think the touch interface will more than make up for it. Plus i guess that puts me at and advantage where this will be my first phone with a keyboard.
If you feel the keys are too small, tell this to the Blackberry users.
I think the keyboard was stretched pretty close to the edges, I think its fine. the universal has a different target audience than the touch pro 2 if you want the PERFECT universal replacement I suggest this phone:
http://www.htc.com/www/product/shift/specification.html
but I never used or saw a universal so im not sure, but the shift is a really nice phone with a big keyboard and it has ALOT of speed, but it costs alot more than most phones and is wont fit in your pocket either but it seems like the perfect replacement plus it runs windows vista! a real os not a mobile one
and it has a finger print scanner built in whats not to like about that.
CAPS & Function Keys
I cannot imagine why the CAPS(shift) and Function keys are not reversed! Didn't the designers look at a computer keyboard?
So my question is - can the key functions be changed in the software and can the keycaps be popped off and switched?
orb3000 said:
Hope HTC have some secret devices on that form factor, but I doub it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alas, I have been wishing this for years...
when the original Universal came out, as a college student, I didn't have the means for a Universal...
All I can do now is hope...
Can anyone recommend a bluetooth keyboard? This is for use with Android (running on a Hero), however as third party drivers are available which support SPP & HID I think this shouldn't impose any restrictions on choice.
I'm in the UK & willing to buy from anywhere that will ship here, though a UK or at least European source is preferred.
Not surprisingly, portability, battery life & reliability/build quality are important. Flexible solutions, such as cloth, seem to offer too poor accuracy, so I think I'm probably after a folding keyboard.
I've spent a few hours searching online, but can't find any keyboard which is still available that gets consistently good reviews. I'd rather not pay a king's ransom, but if the keyboard will last a good five years plus so that it can be used with future devices, I don't mind investing a reasonable sum. IOW, value for money is important but that doesn't mean it has to be dirt cheap.
Any suggestions?
I am using the Stowaway - ThinkOutside universal keyboard. Used it on my N95, 5800, even e71 and it also works on my HD mini so id go for that. Folds up neatly, slim, quality build.
Thanks for the response. I ended up ordering a Freedom Pro from Handtec, for about £60, four days ago. Still waiting for it atm. I'll post back here when I have it & know if it works or otherwise.
I did look for the ThinkOutside Stowaway as it gets lots of good reviews, but couldn't find it in the UK. The closest was an iGo Stowaway which claims to be the same as ThinkOutside's Stowaway Shasta for Blackberry.
BT Keyboards for mobile devices seem less popular now than they were 2-6 years ago, which I find a bit puzzling.
Just curious what everyone is using for Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse. Anything you find that works best or doesn't work? I'm wanting to get both a keyboard and mouse but not 100% sure which to get. Ideally, I want the Bluetooth Keyboard/Case combo, but it still isn't out .
I haven't decided on a keyboard. I'm leaning toward the Logitech android keyboard due to it has a cover that doubles as a stand. It looks like it would be easier to throw in my bag and take to school. I have been using a Dell bluetooth notebook mouse that I've had for a while. I've never had any problems with it and as usual it works great on the tab.
SIR, but has anyone tried Acer's bluetooth keyboard for this?
See this web address extension on Amazon's site:
Acer-Iconia-Tab-Bluetooth-Keyboard/dp/B004YHOUDI
I just noticed it in OfficeMax yesterday. Without a doubt, I am definitely going to wait until Samsung releases the bluetooth/keyboard case first so that I can see it in person, but I will strongly consider this if I end up disliking Samsung's (unlikely, I think). The most important quality I am seeking in my keyboard is size. To this end, most of them I have considered have looked too large, even the Xoom's. This one, however, was about the same length as the tab itself (perhaps even a little shorter; I didn't have it on me for a direct comparison at the time). If you're a minimalist such as myself and for whatever reason Samsung's doesn't tickle your fancy, you might want to consider this one.
Using Logitech keyboard and Microsoft bluetooth mouse. Work great.
I think I am going to get the Motorola wireless keyboard for the Zoom. I like how it looks and the size of it
These keyboards work well for word and document processing? What program? Quick office?
BlueGoldAce said:
These keyboards work well for word and document processing? What program? Quick office?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My question too.
The Logitech keyboard looks pretty sweet, but a bit pricey. What apps do you use a keyboard with? Word processing (Quick Office or something else)? Web browsing?
Menotek Keyboard
If you do a lot of traveling as I do , you will find this one very friendly user, does the job and is waterproof too, I know a little silly if you ask me, but why not?
I can't put the link because I am new on the forum, type Menotek bluetooth waterproof keyboard on amazon, and voila" hope it helps.
ganiman said:
The Logitech keyboard looks pretty sweet, but a bit pricey. What apps do you use a keyboard with? Word processing (Quick Office or something else)? Web browsing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the logitech and love it with docs to go. Ymmv
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium App
I'm toying with the idea of using my phone to take notes. Would something like this work? Is there something similar that would make a better setup?
Logitech Tablet Keyboard for Android 3.0+ (920-003390) (On Amazon)
they also have the mini Bluetooth keyboards on amazon, and they are pretty nice...I think the mini keyboard would be great for note taking in my opinion. I used to use my tablet for not taking, except i used a note taking app and the capacitive stylus. I think it would have been a lot easier with a keyboard.
Pricy but the cool factor is off the scale!
Hi XDA,
I am considering getting the Note 10.1 2014 LTE version. However as a Student this is a very expensive Device to buy and there are some Questions i have to get answers to first before i can justify getting one. I hope some of you can help me find out what i need to get answers too.
I am studying computer science and i want to use it as a full replacement for pen and paper (Is that even realistically possible?). I have had some time with it in the store but some first hand everyday experience would be very much appreciated. I will try to categorize my questions.
Notetaking
Screen Protectors
Do they work with the Stylus and if so how well?
S-Note
In my short time with the device i noticed that S-Note does not support Portrait mode for the "virtual page" im writing on. Is that true and if so are there alternative apps that work with the S-Pen and allow for portrait notetaking?
Speed and Precision
I usually have to write down a LOT of Math stuff. Can you write fast enough on the note 10.1 to write during a lecture? Is it precise enough for small index numbers etc.?
Samsungs Software (and how i can get rid of their butt-ugly touchwiz crap?)
Lags and Stuff
During my shot time with the device i noticed a lot of lag and applications that were just pathetically slow compared to my Nexus 7 first gen with CM (this little Tab with CM is just so fast it's insane. Literally zero lag all around and insane performance even when HEAVILY Multitasking). Have the recent updates fixed this problem (well it's samsung so lets say made it less bad than before)?
Touchwizz
How much of the Touchwizz features i don't need can be deactivated? if deactived do they make it perform better?
Other Apps
Have you noticed any Problems with other Apps that usually work fine?
Custom Rom Stuff
General Support
I know this device is just on the market but comming from Nexus Devices i really don't want to stick with Samsungs Rom. How good/bad has the Rom Support for other Samsung Devices been in the past? What Problems will i face?
Rooting and Knox
WTF is Knox and why do i have to care when i root. I really don't get what that is and why it exists. Maybe someone can enlighten me
This is my Wishlist for a Custom Rom. Will that ever happen?
CyanogenMod/Stock Based Roms that are just as ridiculously fast as my N7
S-Pen Support for Notetaking (with anything other than S-Note)
Multiwindow Support (i suppose that is bound to touchwizz but have there been ROMs that integrated it into Stock-ish Android before?)
Hardware
Battery life
I have to get out of the house at 7 AM and im Back Home around 5-6PM. In this time this device will be used literally the entire time. I have Wireless Access most of the time so i don't have to rely on LTE completly. Can the Battery handle that? Will the Battery be able to handle this 2 years down the road?
Bigger Stylus
Well writing with the small S-Pen is a really ****ty experience. It's just too flimsy. Has anyone tried any Bigger Wacom Pens that work with the Note?
Smart Wake
Does the Note 10 Support waking up from standby like apples smartcover (and my N7)?
Cover
Talking about Smartcovers. How good are Samsungs Covers for the Note 10.1?
I know this is a very very long list and i am totally fine with any answers that just link to a site or something but i really hope that this device can do what it's named after.
Thanks for any answer i really appreciate them!
I'm studying computer science myself and found the tablet to be amazing for taking notes with. I've been using LectureNotes and its extremely flexible to suit whatever your note taking preference is. It does support portrait mode, but I would recommend using it in landscape (you can adjust the page size and just scroll down). As for writing with the s-pen it does get annoying after some time due to the size.
As for using a stylus there is this huge on going thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2484014
In short, no stylus works perfectly for our tablets aside from the s-pen it comes with. Most of the active styluses do "work" but have an offset of a few mm when writing at an angle (if you hold it straight up it aligns perfectly). For myself, I'm using a surface pro pen and compensated the offset on lecturenotes. I can hardly tell the difference at all.
Here is a screenshot of my notes from my algorithm class: http://i.imgur.com/NsPYFia.png
CircleSquare said:
I'm studying computer science myself and found the tablet to be amazing for taking notes with. I've been using LectureNotes and its extremely flexible to suit whatever your note taking preference is. It does support portrait mode, but I would recommend using it in landscape (you can adjust the page size and just scroll down). As for writing with the s-pen it does get annoying after some time due to the size.
As for using a stylus there is this huge on going thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2484014
In short, no stylus works perfectly for our tablets aside from the s-pen it comes with. Most of the active styluses do "work" but have an offset of a few mm when writing at an angle (if you hold it straight up it aligns perfectly). For myself, I'm using a surface pro pen and compensated the offset on lecturenotes. I can hardly tell the difference at all.
Here is a screenshot of my notes from my algorithm class: http://i.imgur.com/NsPYFia.png
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the Quick Reply. That does look very much like it will suit my needs. Would you say you can use it to completly replace pen and paper?
detrexer said:
Thanks for the Quick Reply. That does look very much like it will suit my needs. Would you say you can use it to completly replace pen and paper?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't used a pen and paper the entire term to take notes! It's actually a lot faster once you get used to it. Copy and pasting helps out a ton when the professor is explaining concepts on the same graph.
Screen Protectors
I don't use them, but have a fellow student that uses one and it seems to work well. Bare in mind it adds some friction if you get a mate screenprotector.
S-Note
Nope never used never tried and just got LectureNotes from the start. I also write in portrait mode. Most fellow students like to write in landscape. I have found that I can write extremely small and read it and don't like to scroll down all the time.
Speed and Precision
Yes it's fast enough. I write in my maths lecture. For me it's faster than paper. I use the plastic tip and there is hardly any friction so the pen moves very fast. Only thing that takes time is when you have to fiddle with menus or stuff like that.
Samsungs Software (and how i can get rid of their butt-ugly touchwiz crap?)
Lags and Stuff
I have had no problems with my device. Even at the beginning I didn't really notice much lag. But there are lots of people that have complained. Once you disable a bunch of touchwiz apps it flies.
Touchwizz
If you disable some touchwiz stuff it will perform a bit faster. I disabled everything but S-Note, Alarms, Action Note and the S-Pen SDK.
Other Apps
Due to the high pixel density some apps that aren't optimized (are badly coded) and perform lots of drawing might not perform as well. But other than that no real issues.
Custom Rom Stuff
General Support
The rom support has been bad. But this is the first device I bought in the launch week so it might pick up.
Rooting and Knox
If you root the know counter will be tripped and you allegedly lose warranty. It seems to be some corporate app allowing you to separate work and company data.
This is my Wishlist for a Custom Rom. Will that ever happen?
S-Pen Support for Notetaking (with anything other than S-Note)
There are native API for styluses as long as the drivers work the native API's should work too
Multiwindow Support (i suppose that is bound to touchwizz but have there been ROMs that integrated it into Stock-ish Android before?)
The multiwindow support on touchwiz is the best I have seen so far.
Hardware
Battery life
My battery lasts about 7 hours with screen on. If you need more battery life get an external battery. They are really cheap, in germany i can get one for 40 bucks with double the capacity as the internal battery.
Bigger Stylus
There seems to be one wacom stylus that works, there is a thread about it. I like the small pen, it's light and I don't get tired when writing with it.
Smart Wake
yes supports the smart wake
Cover
I have an ivso cover i got from amazon.de I'm happy with it
I got the Note about a month ago or so for university. I didn't really plan on replacing paper with that, but no I don't use paper at all anymore. I have found that I can keep stuff organized a lot better in a digital form. If I ever get a sheet of paper I will either run to the scanners scattered around our university and scan it or take a picture and annotate that instead of the actual paper . It really depends on the way of learning if you can "think digitally". A fellow student got the old model and returned it after a week because he found it too distracting. But for me the Note really fits into my way of thinking and doing stuff, but I'm a real techy person, who programs and sees a higher value in having information in a digital form.
To add about knox: If you get squaretrade warranty, someone in another thread said they don't care if you trip it or not and will still honor the warranty.
These are very uplifting answers for me. Heaving two people confirm that you can replace paper with it is almost enough to buy it. I ****ing hate paper... to much clutter...
I very much appreciate all the answers und Grüße aus Aachen an alle
I've replaced paper, not at school, but in office. All note taking in meetings, all "to do" lists are now done on the tablet (I made the conversion a year ago with the original Note 10.1, new one is even better).
detrexer said:
These are very uplifting answers for me. Heaving two people confirm that you can replace paper with it is almost enough to buy it. I ****ing hate paper... to much clutter...
I very much appreciate all the answers und Grüße aus Aachen an alle
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my local Media Markt they have it for 500€, easier to return if something happens. Might want to check because only it's roughly the same price as online.
This is the case I have, there is pretty much only one case on amazon.de anyways.
Also look at the colors. I have choosen white because it reminds me of paper. Also the contrast between white on the screen and a black border is too harsh in my opinion.
{Diemex} said:
In my local Media Markt they have it for 500€, easier to return if something happens. Might want to check because only it's roughly the same price as online.
This is the case I have, there is pretty much only one case on amazon.de anyways.
Also look at the colors. I have choosen white because it reminds me of paper. Also the contrast between white on the screen and a black border is too harsh in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same case, it's perfect.
---------- Post added at 01:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------
detrexer said:
Thanks for the Quick Reply. That does look very much like it will suit my needs. Would you say you can use it to completly replace pen and paper?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it has completely replaced paper for me. At work I need to draw on photos and diagrams etc to send to people. Before I got the Note, I had to print a photo, draw on it, and scan it back in, then attach it to an email.
Using LectureNotes I can just do everything on the tablet and email straight from it. My work notebook is up to about 300 pages now. LectureNotes enables you to email a single page or selection of pages as a pdf straight from the app.
I still like to have a paper notebook to flick through, so I print out my notebook as I go. Of course if I lose it, I can just print it again, unlike a paper notebook...
LectureNotes is complicated to set up initially, but well worth it - once it's set up right, it's amazingly powerful.
If you want a spare s-pen, you can buy one for the old Note 10.1 and trim the back of the nib slightly. This gets rid of any offset.
I did that, then put it into a pen case to make it like a real pen - photos here: http://flickr.com/gp/jackhenriques/d68460/