Develop Bugs

To root or not to root, that is the question

Please feel free to move this in another section if a mod feels like it's out of place.
I'm new to Android, but not new to HTC devices. I used to have a WM6.1 (later 6.5) HTC Fuze/Touch Pro. Part of the reason I preferred an HTC phone over a Samsung or other manufacturer is the XDA community.
That being said, I understand that rooting seems to be the equivalent of doing the hard SPL on WM which enables you to flash a custom ROM.
I also understand there was an OTA patch on the launch day that addressed the microSD card issue and the root vulnerability.
So I guess this is really a two part question - the only thing I'm interested in rooting for is free tethering (I don't really care if it's over wi-fi or USB cable, either is fine but I suppose I'd prefer wi-fi). As far as programs and all that, I'm happy with everything that is already on the phone.
I've also read that cooked ROMs "degrade" over time - is this true? And is it true for stock ROMs as well?
1. Is there a root that gets by the latest OTA update?
2. Other than wi-fi tethering and some other apps, what advantages does rooting have? I'd rather not totally **** my phone up... but if it's just as easy if not easier to root than it is to do a hard SPL, then PLEASE let me know. I feel dumb reading some of these "easy guides" for rooting and they don't answer all of my questions. For example, if any of the root methods bypasses the most recent OTA.
Perhaps there are more answers in the comments, but I don't want read that much while I'm at work. Yes, call me lazy if you want.
Many, many thanks in advance, and if someone wanted to write a pre-school level rooting guide with pics, that would be AWESOME and I'd be eternally indebted to you... that is if rooting gives me more hookups then just wi-fi tethering.

pekosROB said:
I've also read that cooked ROMs "degrade" over time - is this true? And is it true for stock ROMs as well?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what you mean by the "degrade"... but if you're talking about ROM's not being maintained for their entire life cycle, that happens rarely here. Alll the Dev's here seem to maintain there ROM's very well, users send feedback in a variety of ways so that the ROM's are always up to date and customized with each new version. Stock ROM's are just that, stock. They don't usually get much customization and aren't maintained, because of the newer more customized ROM's that are put out by the Dev's.
pekosROB said:
1. Is there a root that gets by the latest OTA update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you can use either the UnRevoked method or Toast's method -- I recommend using Toast's method as it will give you full root access.
pekosROB said:
2. Other than wi-fi tethering and some other apps, what advantages does rooting have? I'd rather not totally **** my phone up... but if it's just as easy if not easier to root than it is to do a hard SPL, then PLEASE let me know. I feel dumb reading some of these "easy guides" for rooting and they don't answer all of my questions. For example, if any of the root methods bypasses the most recent OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're someone that likes to overclock your phone, you now have that ability; on top of the other things you mentioned (tethering, customizable ROM's, etc). Also, rooting isn't very hard at all, just follow the directions as stated and you'll be good to go. If you really want a seamlessly (but limited) root hack -- you can use the UnRevoked method, which is a simple application that basically toggles root access for you on your phone. Toast's method is a bit more in depth, but if you have experience with hacking your phone, you'll be fine.
And yes, these root methods BYPASS! the most recent OTA.
pekosROB said:
Perhaps there are more answers in the comments, but I don't want read that much while I'm at work. Yes, call me lazy if you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed you are.
pekosROB said:
Many, many thanks in advance, and if someone wanted to write a pre-school level rooting guide with pics, that would be AWESOME and I'd be eternally indebted to you... that is if rooting gives me more hookups then just wi-fi tethering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a couple of threads already featuring "How-To" root with pictures. Please look in the Android Development thread.

I did a root. The only real positive thing is the free wifi tethering. But you can do that w/ the unrevoked root which is mind numbingly easy.
The different ROMs aren't dramatically shocking exactly. When 2.2 is final and error free I will flash to that. Otherwise my phone works just fine.

pseudoremora said:
Yes, you can use either the UnRevoked method or Toast's method -- I recommend using Toast's method as it will give you full root access.
rutter9 said:
I did a root. The only real positive thing is the free wifi tethering. But you can do that w/ the unrevoked root which is mind numbingly easy.
The different ROMs aren't dramatically shocking exactly. When 2.2 is final and error free I will flash to that. Otherwise my phone works just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it sounds like I just need to look for the UnRevoked method since all I really care about is wifi tethering.
Has this been working with full 4G access as well? Not that it matters right now since I'm not in a 4G market, but soon hope to be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

pseudoremora said:
Yes, you can use either the UnRevoked method or Toast's method -- I recommend using Toast's method as it will give you full root access.
Oh yeah, and anything that backs up all the apps and settings and **** on my phone? Otherwise I'd have to write it all down the old fashion way... that's the main reason I don't wanna fully root, because I'm lazy and I doubt I'll use all the benefits... but then again... if i Could find something that backed everything up and my info, I'd be in heaven.
Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

pekosROB said:
Oh yeah, and anything that backs up all the apps and settings and **** on my phone? Otherwise I'd have to write it all down the old fashion way... that's the main reason I don't wanna fully root, because I'm lazy and I doubt I'll use all the benefits... but then again... if i Could find something that backed everything up and my info, I'd be in heaven.
Thanks guys!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In order to have the ability to backup everything on your phone, you can use Titanium Backup (it's in the Market; and you mighr need root -- use UnRevoked) or use Toast's method and be able to do Nandroid back ups, which would image your phone and save it, so you can restore it at a later date.

pseudoremora said:
In order to have the ability to backup everything on your phone, you can use Titanium Backup (it's in the Market; and you mighr need root -- use UnRevoked) or use Toast's method and be able to do Nandroid back ups, which would image your phone and save it, so you can restore it at a later date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it sounds like my best option is to use unrevoked in order to use Titanium Backup and then after that save the backup on the SD card and use toast's method to get full access, use titanium backup to recall info, and then use nandroid from there on out? Sounds like a lot of work - but at least I don't have to redownload and enter all my info in everything again.

pekosROB said:
So it sounds like my best option is to use unrevoked in order to use Titanium Backup and then after that save the backup on the SD card and
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Skip this ^ part, it's redundant with the next part.
use toast's method to get full access, use titanium backup to recall info, and then use nandroid from there on out? Sounds like a lot of work - but at least I don't have to redownload and enter all my info in everything again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Edit: nevermind, forgot you wanted to back it all up prior to full root.

pekosROB said:
So it sounds like my best option is to use unrevoked in order to use Titanium Backup and then after that save the backup on the SD card and use toast's method to get full access, use titanium backup to recall info, and then use nandroid from there on out? Sounds like a lot of work - but at least I don't have to redownload and enter all my info in everything again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No No No.
You don't even have to worry about backing up your phone before rooting; there is a stock RUU image that will allow you to bring your phone back to factory default settings if you happen to screw up anything during rooting your phone or if you just want to go back to Stock period.
I would just root your phone using Toast's method, its really not that hard. If you want to tether and be able to backup your phone; having a full root access hack is preferred, plus then you have the ability to customize your phone with new themes, kernels, etc... and you may say you don't want to do that; but believe me you will.
Also, in regards to "recalling info" -- what do you mean? Since you're new to Android, i'll tell you that Google manages all your information for you. Your contacts, you Email, your apps, etc. If you move to another phone, your contacts and your Email will come with you. When you first get your phone, you have to sign in with a Gmail account, that account houses all your information for the phone and as such also keeps tracks of all your contacts and what not. Titanium Backup isn't really needed, if you're worried about losing information or whatever initially before rooting, then sure -- use it. Otherwise, if you already have all your information associated with your Gmail account that's being used by the phone, then I'd just root and after you've rooted, then do a Nandroid backup.

Jye75 said:
Skip this ^ part, it's redundant with the next part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But I thought doing a full root wipes your device clean? I'm trying to back it up before doing Toast's root in order to not have to configure everything again (Besides phone settings).

pekosROB said:
But I thought doing a full root wipes your device clean? I'm trying to back it up before doing Toast's root in order to not have to configure everything again (Besides phone settings).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I edited my post... forgot about that.

pseudoremora said:
Also, in regards to "recalling info" -- what do you mean? Since you're new to Android, i'll tell you that Google manages all your information for you. Your contacts, you Email, your apps, etc. If you move to another phone, your contacts and your Email will come with you. When you first get your phone, you have to sign in with a Gmail account, that account houses all your information for the phone and as such also keeps tracks of all your contacts and what not. Titanium Backup isn't really needed, if you're worried about losing information or whatever initially before rooting, then sure -- use it. Otherwise, if you already have all your information associated with your Gmail account that's being used by the phone, then I'd just root and after you've rooted, then do a Nandroid backup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Recalling info" means website logins, eBuddy accounts, settings for particular programs, my checkbook program with all the info in it.
I understand a lot of programs put **** on the SDcard, but will the actual programs that I've downloaded to the phone still be there? Rooting doesn't require a hard reset unless you mess up the process?
I understand the contacts and email - I'm not worried about that. Since I'm such a dedicated Gmail user I wanted to get into Android.

pekosROB said:
"Recalling info" means website logins, eBuddy accounts, settings for particular programs, my checkbook program with all the info in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't do any of that, I wipe my cache and history, just because. But I would presume Titanium backup would take care of this, I've never needed to use Titanium, so I don't know.
pekosROB said:
I understand a lot of programs put **** on the SDcard, but will the actual programs that I've downloaded to the phone still be there? Rooting doesn't require a hard reset unless you mess up the process?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently the programs will not be there. Froyo 2.2 should allow for this to happen though. Our phones are currently running Android 2.1 and Toast's method will wipe everything on the phone when you begin the rooting process (so yes, its a "hard reset").

Here is an awesome question and answer blog to root or not to root. Good read for the noobs!
http://www.androidcentral.com/rooting-it-me-some-qa

I come from a similar background as you, WinMo to Android. I will say the current options after rooting are limited. I went ahead and did it, and honestly the only thing I feel happened was I spent hours reconfiguring my home screens and settings/apps. The phone doesn't feel any faster and it doesn't have any new capabilities.
I appreciate the time the people put into ROMs and rooting and I know its hard work, its just too early to get a lot of tangible benefits.
If I could I would go back, I would just use UnrEVOked (I did for a few days). It's your stock ROM with the ability to tether. That's all most people would really want right now anyways.

Breakthecycle2 said:
Here is an awesome question and answer blog to root or not to root. Good read for the noobs!
http://www.androidcentral.com/rooting-it-me-some-qa
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Many thanks!
Pops_G said:
I come from a similar background as you, WinMo to Android. I will say the current options after rooting are limited. I went ahead and did it, and honestly the only thing I feel happened was I spent hours reconfiguring my home screens and settings/apps. The phone doesn't feel any faster and it doesn't have any new capabilities.
I appreciate the time the people put into ROMs and rooting and I know its hard work, its just too early to get a lot of tangible benefits.
If I could I would go back, I would just use UnrEVOked (I did for a few days). It's your stock ROM with the ability to tether. That's all most people would really want right now anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I might just stick with UnrEVOked then. Do I just search for a tether app on the marketplace that says "root required"?
pseudoremora said:
I don't do any of that, I wipe my cache and history, just because. But I would presume Titanium backup would take care of this, I've never needed to use Titanium, so I don't know.
Currently the programs will not be there. Froyo 2.2 should allow for this to happen though. Our phones are currently running Android 2.1 and Toast's method will wipe everything on the phone when you begin the rooting process (so yes, its a "hard reset").
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so will the Sprint TV program and that kinda stuff be back? Because it sounds like it'll wipe it back to factory settings, allow for root access, but it'll still have the default programs when I'm done rooting that came with the phone out of the box?
Sorry, I am a total noob at Android Rooting. But I can hard SPL and flash cooked ROMs on WM all day long... haha pathetic.
XDA members ARE THE ****! :-D

pekosROB said:
OK, so will the Sprint TV program and that kinda stuff be back? Because it sounds like it'll wipe it back to factory settings, allow for root access, but it'll still have the default programs when I'm done rooting that came with the phone out of the box?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. That's exactly what will happen. You'll have a stock, rooted phone, which you can now install a custom recovery image onto (The recovery image is how you would make backups of your phone, install custom themes, ROM's, wipe your phone, etc).
pekosROB said:
Sorry, I am a total noob at Android Rooting. But I can hard SPL and flash cooked ROMs on WM all day long... haha pathetic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's understandable, everyone here at some point or another was a "noob", but that changes quickly!

pseudoremora said:
Yes. That's exactly what will happen. You'll have a stock, rooted phone, which you can now install a custom recovery image onto (The recovery image is how you would make backups of your phone, install custom themes, ROM's, wipe your phone, etc).
It's understandable, everyone here at some point or another was a "noob", but that changes quickly!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm doing this at work and want to make it as stress free as possible...
I'm looking at the Rooting instructions by Toast, and I've noticed it says to not accept any OTAs once you root. So is there a chance my microSD card will not work? Or has this issue been resolved/updated?
Here is the link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=690762
or this one? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=685835
Once I root with the PC36IMG, do I then immediately have to install a ROM like this to get it back to stock?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=693980
But only after doing the Recovery? I think I got this figured out about 75%... heh

pekosROB said:
I'm doing this at work and want to make it as stress free as possible...
I'm looking at the Rooting instructions by Toast, and I've noticed it says to not accept any OTAs once you root. So is there a chance my microSD card will not work? Or has this issue been resolved/updated?
Here is the link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=690762
or this one? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=685835
Once I root with the PC36IMG, do I then immediately have to install a ROM like this to get it back to stock?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=693980
But only after doing the Recovery? I think I got this figured out about 75%... heh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright,
You need to follow the steps in THIS thread first. This is the first part of rooting your Evo using Toast's method. The first part will allow you to gain only about 50% root access and you'll also be able to use Amon_RA's recovery to make a Nandroid backup and flash a custom ROM; but hold off on that until you've completed the next step, continue reading...
Then you need to follow Toast's SECOND part of the rooting process, this process will complete the root hack altogether. This second part will give you full root access on every partition on the phone (which was missing in part 1). After you complete this second part, you can NOW install a custom ROM, recovery, etc.
So, basically, do the first part -- after you've completed it, do the second part... the second part will look similar to the first, but download all the new files and follow the directions as written! You'll see that the last step in the second part will instruct you to install Amon_RA's recovery image, do that. After that's done, you now have:
1. Full root access
2. A Custom recovery image (Amon_RA's)
3. You can make a Nandroid back up
4. Can install/flash custom ROM's
5. Tether
6. Etc.
To boot into recovery mode, do as follows:
1. Turn of your phone -- hold the power button, choose power off.
2. Press Volume Down + Power, until you see a white bootloading screen, using your Volume rocker keys (up and down), choose recovery.. then to select "recovery", click the Power button. Your phone will reboot, and go into recovery. This is where you can make a Nandroid backup and flash custom ROM's. Follow the instructions in recovery to navigate around it.
Also, as far as flashing custom ROM's goes, please look at this link
This is the Wiki page for all the current ROM's that have been made for the Evo.
If you get stuck or need anymore help -- continue asking questions; but please also look at this before doing so.

pseudoremora said:
Alright,
You need to follow the steps in THIS thread first. This is the first part of rooting your Evo using Toast's method. The first part will allow you to gain only about 50% root access and you'll also be able to use Amon_RA's recovery to make a Nandroid backup and flash a custom ROM; but hold off on that until you've completed the next step, continue reading...
Then you need to follow Toast's SECOND part of the rooting process, this process will complete the root hack altogether. This second part will give you full root access on every partition on the phone (which was missing in part 1). After you complete this second part, you can NOW install a custom ROM, recovery, etc.
So, basically, do the first part -- after you've completed it, do the second part... the second part will look similar to the first, but download all the new files and follow the directions as written! You'll see that the last step in the second part will instruct you to install Amon_RA's recovery image, do that. After that's done, you now have:
1. Full root access
2. A Custom recovery image (Amon_RA's)
3. You can make a Nandroid back up
4. Can install/flash custom ROM's
5. Tether
6. Etc.
To boot into recovery mode, do as follows:
1. Turn of your phone -- hold the power button, choose power off.
2. Press Volume Down + Power, until you see a white bootloading screen, using your Volume rocker keys (up and down), choose recovery.. then to select "recovery", click the Power button. Your phone will reboot, and go into recovery. This is where you can make a Nandroid backup and flash custom ROM's. Follow the instructions in recovery to navigate around it.
Also, as far as flashing custom ROM's goes, please look at this link
This is the Wiki page for all the current ROM's that have been made for the Evo.
If you get stuck or need anymore help -- continue asking questions; but please also look at this before doing so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sweet, thanks. I've already gotten the first part of the root access done, I'm just on that part where I have rename the file on the card.

[Q] How to get Froyo: T-Mobile unlocked now on o2

My desire was purchased on T-Mobile (has T-Mobile startup screen), I also bought an unlock code from them. I'm now using my o2 contract sim in the phone. I'm interested in updating the software to FROYO but have no idea how to go about it.
I don't want to do anything complicated and am happy to wait for an official release. I've read the network sends an update direct to your phone. In my case would this come from T-Mobile or o2?
When I check for system updates it says none are available. My software number is 1.15.110.11
I've looked around the forum for ages but I still can't get a definite answer to my question.

You can be waiting for a very long time for froyo from a network provider.
It's easy to debrand and upgrade your phone. Create a goldcard & download an official ROM. Then you can simply upgrade OTA. There's loads of guides on this forum.

Hi there!
Understand your situation, since I had almost exactly the same circumstances (mine is running on orange)! I couldnt get a definite answer either, so bit the bullet anyway and did it, here is how:
1-rooted the phone by UnrEVOked method (really couldnt be bothered by the goldcard etc method; this method was easy, just had some driver install problems since the guide isnt too good on this point, but its easy to figure it out)
2-Installed the new radio
3-installed the generic rooted 2.2 ROM http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=741775, just by doing an easy straighforward update from the sdcard by going to the bootloader.
Phone was still UNLOCKED,and all running ok. Just had an issue where the phone would say "sim card changed, do you want ot load settings etc". Say NO, otherwise you lose your wallpapers, scenes, etc settings, and you have to redo the whole shebang.
Hope your experience is same as mine, im a noob too, so dont take anything for granted (your phone may have different firmware from mine etc), and make doubly sure before you go ahead!
Good luck.

k.aalai said:
Hi there!
Understand your situation, since I had almost exactly the same circumstances (mine is running on orange)! I couldnt get a definite answer either, so bit the bullet anyway and did it, here is how:
1-rooted the phone by UnrEVOked method (really couldnt be bothered by the goldcard etc method; this method was easy, just had some driver install problems since the guide isnt too good on this point, but its easy to figure it out)
2-Installed the new radio
3-installed the generic rooted 2.2 ROM ... just by doing an easy straighforward update from the sdcard by going to the bootloader.
Phone was still UNLOCKED,and all running ok. Just had an issue where the phone would say "sim card changed, do you want ot load settings etc". Say NO, otherwise you lose your wallpapers, scenes, etc settings, and you have to redo the whole shebang.
Hope your experience is same as mine, im a noob too, so dont take anything for granted (your phone may have different firmware from mine etc), and make doubly sure before you go ahead!
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi mate.
I'm in exact the same situation (German T-mobile 2.1 Softnumber: 1.15.110.11). Your guide looks awesome!!! Can you please please please write it in a bit detail?? from a factory branded 2.1 to root, then to froyo?? please??
I read the UnrEVOked guide from rootmydroid.co.uk
but looks like I only need to the first half for your step 1?
does it root the phone ? does it wipe all my settings and apps???
I also don't know what to do with the radio in your step 2??
can you please help??!! THX soooooooooo much !!!!

Hi thanks for the replies, very useful info.
Does rooting the phone invalidate the warranty?? That's what's putting me off doing it and why I'm happy to wait for an official update.

Hey forgot10!
The step 2 of unrevoked guide is installing the ROM of your choice. Just pick the new ROM you want (from many here and other forums, I just picked a rooted generic 2.2), and install as per part 2 of the unrevoked guide.
2.2 requires a new radio, which is linked and shown in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=741775. Installing the radio doesnt wipe the data, but you seem to need to WIPE (from the recovery image) before putting the new ROM. So use TItanium Backup, or MYbackup, to save your apps, and user data on the SD card, then when the new ROM is installed, you reinstall one of those apps (from market) then rewrtie your apps/data!
As per warranty, check the other threads to be sure, but i think, yes it does invalidate your warranty, but im not 100% certain!
Regards

k.aalai said:
Hey forgot10!
The step 2 of unrevoked guide is installing the ROM of your choice. Just pick the new ROM you want (from many here and other forums, I just picked a rooted generic 2.2), and install as per part 2 of the unrevoked guide.
2.2 requires a new radio, which is linked and shown in {newbie cannot posted link }. Installing the radio doesnt wipe the data, but you seem to need to WIPE (from the recovery image) before putting the new ROM. So use TItanium Backup, or MYbackup, to save your apps, and user data on the SD card, then when the new ROM is installed, you reinstall one of those apps (from market) then rewrtie your apps/data!
As per warranty, check the other threads to be sure, but i think, yes it does invalidate your warranty, but im not 100% certain!
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks mate! it make much better sense for me now!! Im gonna try it next weekend!!

[Q] Newbie questions about DHD rooting and memory

Hi,
I'd be really grateful to anyone who can answer my newbie questions.
I'm looking to follow the guide to downgrade my non-network-branded (i.e. sim-free) Desire HD, so I can permanently root it. Then I intend to follow the other guide so I can still update to the latest official release. My primary requirement for rooting is just so I can make complete backups of my phone's state in future. Though I'll probably play about with other community ROMs too!
Sorry if answers to my questions are elsewhere, and feel free just to point if that's the case. I've searched but haven't found definitive answers. Knowing these things will increase my understanding. Although I'm used to tinkering with things a little am in no way a programmer and my last phone was a Nokia E65!
1) Please can someone list the different parts of the phone's memories, including which are impossible to write over and which are. E.g. my understanding is:
--One flash chip with:
- 'bootloader', which to me sounds like a PC's BIOS or the kind of app you can boot into on a standard desktop PC when choosing which OS to boot into;
- factory image partition;
- separate partition for over the air updates;
- 1GB partition for user-writeable memory for things like apps installed on the phone, contacts, etc.
--Physically separate 'radio' chip that can be overwritten (I don't understand the difference between this and the OS though)
--RAM;
--microSD card.
2) After following the two guides mentioned above, will I still be able to receive over the air HTC updates in future? And if not, does that mean I'd be relying on the community to make available any official updates? I bought my DHD through an official UK retailer.
3) After following the two guides mentioned above, will it still be possible to restore my phone to its factory state in future, e.g. for resale or sending back to HTC, so everything that we unlock ('eng s-off', 'radio s-off', etc., which fries my brain right now) is locked again? If so, can a guide to this process be linked to?
4) I understand it's possible to switch between custom ROMs easily. When this is done, does that mean all system settings, such as phone contacts and app settings are also switched, or are these settings written to a different part of the phone memory?
I'll be sure to thank (and donate) for your time. Many thanks in advance as well!

Hi, I just bought the DHD 3 weeks ago and it is still difficult to understand to understand all this android stuff sometimes
1) I was a little lost at the beginning too, I don't know if this is what you are looking for but this is what I understood.
There are 4 flashable "things" :
- ROM OS (android OS)
- Linux Kernel (linux kernel)
- ROM radio (another ROM that manage ONLY the hardware stuff like 3G, Wi-Fi, bluetooth, GPS...)
- bootloader (exactly like a bios) and contains a recovery menu (that can be flashed by clockworkmod for example)
The ROM radio seems independant and you can flashed it separatly from the other it doesn't bother. The last versions improve battery life or GPS startup etc...
The ROM OS (android) need to be flashed with the kernel otherwise you can have some problem (wi-fi or data network that doesn't work anymore...).
S-Off means security off and it is necessary to do it if you want to write a new recovery on the bootloader or flash a new radio ROM...
Ther is two kind of S-Off but I'm not sure of the meaning so I let you watch about it.
When you install through the official ways :
1 OTA : You need to have the official recovery from the bootloader otherwise it will NOT work (no OTA with clockworkmod)
If your phone is network-branded you need a goldcard here and/or superCID (I don't really understand here lol)
After the installation I think you keep the S-Off but you're not root anymore.
2 RUU : It will install/reinstall everything (ROM OS, kernel, ROM radio and bootloader).
It is even capable of reseting your CID (your not concerned here because your phone is non-network-branded)
If think you loose the S-Off (or ENG S-Off -> SHIPS S-Off), you're not root anymore...
If you want to keep S-OFF, SuperCID and ClockWorkMod you need to :
1 flash the ROM OS through the ClockWorkMod recovery -> update.zip (you can give it the OTA file .zip, it will only flash the ROM OS)
2 flash the kernel manualy with fastboot (you can also use the boot.img contain in your OTA file)
3 flash the ROM radio (there is the excellent tuto here on XDA about this)
2) OTA will not be possible if you want to use clockworkmod. I was a little anxious about that too at the beginning! But you can find the official
ROMS REALLY easily on XDA probably before your provider send it to you. And when you do everything manually, you can CHOOSE wich radio ROM you want,
you can do backup REALLY quickly with clockworkmod and you can come back (things you can't do if you use OTA)... The last point that confort me
in doing all of this is that you can download OTA but not install it to pick up the ROMs inside and the kernel ! I did it last week and my phone
is now running the two ROMS that was contained in the OTA file AND the kernel. This is why I'm not worried anymore.
3) I never tried to restore my phone to its exact factory settings but I think you can...
4) I don't really now. In my case, I decided to use Google for my contact too, so when I flash, a few minutes later I have all my contacts
I hope my english is not too bad for explainations like this

Hi poumpoum,
Firstly, thanks so much for taking the time to help. Your English is ten times better than my Française! If you've a PayPal account you'd like to Personal Message me, or just the name of your preferred charity, I'd like to say a little thanks that way too.
Okay: so I understand that doing these cool things to my phone means I won't be able to update it over the air. You've convinced me this isn't a problem because any updates find their way to the community.
I'm also convinced I can restore my phone completely to factory defaults due to this thread (the thread's for a different region but the principle still stands).
Thanks for clarifying the radio ROM shares the same physical chip as all the other memory (including the RAM actually, I found this out).
This thread also explained some of the jargon to me.

You're welcome

[Q] Easiest way to copy entire rom and contents of one Xperia Play phone to another?

My current Xperia Play (r800x, rooted, Gingerbread 2.3.4, Verizon) of 3 years is starting to fail/shutdown when I open the slider - I have to restart the phone to get it running again - it works fine as long as I don't open the slider which fails randomly). I bought another Xperia Play online (r800x, rooted, Gingerbread, 2.3.3) to replace the existing one.
There has to be a way for me to copy the entire rom contents from the existing phone to the new one since the phones are exactly the same - correct? If so, how would I do this? (I currently have ROM Toolkit and Titanium Backup paid versions with installed key on both phones). The replacement phone works fine. It may be obvious to you how to do this but your help would be VERY much appreciated since I've never done this before. ROM Toolkit doesn't make it obvious if there's a way to do that. I've also searched the forums a bit and no luck so far unless I missed something. Thanks for your time!

haskamr2 said:
My current Xperia Play (r800x, rooted, Gingerbread 2.3.4, Verizon) of 3 years is starting to fail/shutdown when I open the slider - I have to restart the phone to get it running again - it works fine as long as I don't open the slider which fails randomly). I bought another Xperia Play online (r800x, rooted, Gingerbread, 2.3.3) to replace the existing one.
There has to be a way for me to copy the entire rom contents from the existing phone to the new one since the phones are exactly the same - correct? If so, how would I do this? (I currently have ROM Toolkit and Titanium Backup paid versions with installed key on both phones). The replacement phone works fine. It may be obvious to you how to do this but your help would be VERY much appreciated since I've never done this before. ROM Toolkit doesn't make it obvious if there's a way to do that. I've also searched the forums a bit and no luck so far unless I missed something. Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As your doing a straight copy from R800x to R800x, best thing is to make a nandroid backup from Clockwork Mod then take out the memory card dferom your old PLAY and put it in the new phone. Boot into recovery and restore the nandroid. BAM.... done

I wish it were that simple...still no luck
ozzmanj1 said:
As your doing a straight copy from R800x to R800x, best thing is to make a nandroid backup from Clockwork Mod then take out the memory card dferom your old PLAY and put it in the new phone. Boot into recovery and restore the nandroid. BAM.... done
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know for sure the phone is rooted, which I did myself. It has Superuser access, I was able to remove Verizon bloatware, etc... I downloaded/paid for ROM Manager Premium v5.5.3.2 and I already had the paid version of ROM ToolBox Pro. I have tried to create a backup of my existing rom on both apps and no luck. It restarts the phone but it comes back up just like a regular reboot. ROM Manager didn't create the folder it designated for the backup.
There is no mention to do so but am I supposed to unlock the bootloader before trrying to backup my rom? When I goto Sony's page about unlocking the bootloader(http://unlockbootloader.sonymobile.com/instructions) it walks me through the first steps to check if the bootloader is locked or not - it tells me this:
"First, you should confirm that it is possible to unlock the boot loader of your device by checking the service menu. In your device, open the dialler and enter *#*#7378423#*#* to access the service menu. If you have a tablet, click here to learn how access the service menu.
In your device, tap Service info > Configuration > Rooting Status. If Bootloader unlock allowed says Yes, then you can continue with the next step. If it says No, or if the status is missing, your device cannot be unlocked." - well, I enter the code, goto Service Info, Configuration, and that's it - I can't get to "Rooting Status". The page shows the MEID #, MEID Software version, Available Speech Codecs, and Working Bands.That's it - and I get the same result on the other phone I have.
So if I don't need to worry about unlocking the bootloader(because it wasn't mentioned in several how to guides online like this one: http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/0...nandroid-backup-and-clockworkmod-rom-manager/ , then how come I'm not able to backup my existing rom using either apps before I attempt to copy over the rom from my other phone? *sigh*
Thanks for your time once again.

Yes you need to have an unlocked bootloader. For the r800x I would recommend doomkernel. If you need more help there is a thread for it on the developement thread, I believe that tells you exactly how to do it.
Sent from my R800at using xda premium

Here is the DoomKernel:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1368636
If the download links in the thread are dead let me know and I will provide a link to my collection.

Thanks Ozzmanj1...but....
ozzmanj1 said:
Here is the DoomKernel:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1368636
If the download links in the thread are dead let me know and I will provide a link to my collection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I decided I don't want to go that far(messing with Kernel and Bootloader) since the phone is working great - I got all my games/apps installed with the 64gb MicroSDHC class 10 card, cleaned up all the dead files using SD Maid, deleted and restored the Dalvik Cache, cleaned out ../system/app/ folder of unneeded apks, and I'm running at optimum now(no low disk space icon showing which is a nag for this phone). This phone is "pimped out" to the max and I've decided to just use Mybackup Pro to save everything out and I'm going to make a full copy of the sd card in the next couple days so I don't lose anything again. I'm concerned that if I tinker with bootloader/kernel that something will go wrong. I have no problem rooting or doing extensive fiddling for optimal performance however. :cyclops:
Internal has 43MB free, 342MB used.
SD card has 24GB free, 35GB used.
Thanks again for your efforts & time to help out!!!

Have you tried using x-Parts? I got recovery through this way, and it doesn't require an Unlocked Bootloader, you just have to be rooted.
However, I'm unsure as to whether it would still work on yours, as yours is an R800x and mine is a R800i.
Link to the App: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pvy.CWMinstaler&hl=en_GB

Thanks AzNTypeR!...
AzNTypeR said:
Have you tried using x-Parts? I got recovery through this way, and it doesn't require an Unlocked Bootloader, you just have to be rooted.
However, I'm unsure as to whether it would still work on yours, as yours is an R800x and mine is a R800i.
Link to the App: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pvy.CWMinstaler&hl=en_GB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, I will check it out - from the user comments in Google Play it appears that it does work on r800x's - to access installed recovery it was noted that the update says to push any button on reboot but users found that the volume down button was the only button that works(maybe this was fixed in an update?). It sure looks like the r800x is more of a pain to toy with than the r800i and other gsm phones. I love Verizon networks but I don't care for their extra headaches using cdma.

X-tools uses a portion of your system folder to store the recovery. So if you install x-parts/tools and flash a new rom you will lose the recovery an will have to re-install the software.

[Q] GPE 5.0.1 vs Sense: What will I lose? How do I go back?

I'm considering doing the GPE 5.0.1 RUU conversion. I was really impressed with Lollipop as demoed from I/O, so I think I'd be happy with it vs Sense. I have a couple questions though, and some will be fairly noobish.
1. What will I lose? I know I'll lose HTC Gallery and Camera (though someone posted that). What about HTC Backup; can I still pull that down from Play?
2. Battery saver? Does Lollipop have a battery saver mode like Sense does? I can't go an entire day on a charge without it.
3. How well does it play with AT&T? And a stretch, does it include Visual Voicemail?
4. Should I end up not liking my phone being Senseless, how do I go back to stock? I know there's a thread about it, but it seems somewhat convoluted. Ideally, I'd like to make a backup of my own device prior to doing anything, rather than relying on someone else's backup.
Thanks in advance.

At least have a full understanding of the "back to sense" thread cause some people are having trouble going back for lack of possible comprehension/lack of steps even
I was on GPE full conversion and went back to sense dev edition on my At&t M8 to wait for the sense 7 lollipop version when it's released.
Yes always make a backup before you do anything,it can be useful when you want to go back to sense if you choose.

jball said:
At least have a full understanding of the "back to sense" thread cause some people are having trouble going back for lack of possible comprehension/lack of steps even
I was on GPE full conversion and went back to sense dev edition on my At&t M8 to wait for the sense 7 lollipop version when it's released.
Yes always make a backup before you do anything,it can be useful when you want to go back to sense if you choose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything here: (Back to Sense) makes sense. My question is, is there a way for me to backup my current device, bootloader, system partition, the whole lot, the way it is now, rather than relying on someone else's backup? Ie, can I return my phone to AT&T-bone-stock?

Yes just make a full backup like you would on any other device (just back it up to your external sdcard) instead.
Follow the back to sense thread and when it gets to the part were it wants you to install a Rom (use the backup) and you should be good
Most backups are recovery sensitive so make sure if you backup with TWRP than your going to want to restore with TWRP

jball said:
Yes just make a full backup like you would on any other device (just back it up to your external sdcard) instead.
Follow the back to sense thread and when it gets to the part were it wants you to install a Rom (use the backup) and you should be good
Most backups are recovery sensitive so make sure if you backup with TWRP than your going to want to restore with TWRP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I'm understanding you correctly, I have to install a custom recovery in order to make a backup. Is that correct? And if that's the case, I'll have to find an AT&T 4.4.2 recovery if I wanted to go back to stock, right? Thank you for the help.

Yes a custom recovery is needed to make a backup.
Have you achieved S-OFF yet ?

jball said:
Yes a custom recovery is needed to make a backup.
Have you achieved S-OFF yet ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So then as a hypothetical... how does anyone have a stock recovery to flash, if in order to make a backup we have to flash a custom recovery?
Anyway, no I am not S-Off nor have I unlocked my bootloader yet on this M8. I've done it to a previous M8 with Firewater. I've already got my token from HTC for this M8. I just wanted to get all of my ducks in a row this time around, rather than not have a backup (and backup plan) and have to use the AT&T 4.4.3 battery-eating RUU.

They pull it from the firmware and post it.or if they've gained root alternatively then you can "dd" pull it from your device through terminal emulator.
I'm sure you know of the stock backup thread right? They also have the stock recoveries

jball said:
They pull it from the firmware and post it.or if they've gained root alternatively then you can "dd" pull it from your device through terminal emulator.
I'm sure you know of the stock backup thread right? They also have the stock recoveries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do. I just wanted to pull my own everything, just in case. I get the feeling that it'd just be easier to find a firmware and recovery with my MID and CID, no?

Yes correct.
Your At&t so everything you need is all over the place.
I've already been fully converted and now back to sense dev edition and I'm At&t just waiting for the sense 7 lollipop version

My signal sucked with ATT, it was all over the place. Back to Dev Edition after 2 days. Too basic for me as well. I like Sense.

What concerns me is battery saver mode. It seems HTCs is more robust and less intrusive (no orange bars). Is that true?
My current usage pretty much mandates that I use battery saver if I want to last an entire day.