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I'm currently on the no longer available SERO plan from sprint. So i'm very reluctant to do anything that changes my plan considering how much i am saving each month.
Right now i have a touch pro2. I'm wondering if i buy an EVO somewhere (other then sprint) and activate it, will sprint know i am using an EVO? I'm not going to pay the extra $10/month considering that extra $10 doesn't get me anything extra that i wouldn't get with any other android phone.
I wasn't sure if the phone itself reports to sprint what phone it is. or if it does, if there's someway to have it report itself as something else.
I believe when they run the esn to activate it, it tells them what type of phone it is. If this is the case, you will have to pay the $10/month.
merkk said:
I'm currently on the no longer available SERO plan from sprint. So i'm very reluctant to do anything that changes my plan considering how much i am saving each month.
Right now i have a touch pro2. I'm wondering if i buy an EVO somewhere (other then sprint) and activate it, will sprint know i am using an EVO? I'm not going to pay the extra $10/month considering that extra $10 doesn't get me anything extra that i wouldn't get with any other android phone.
I wasn't sure if the phone itself reports to sprint what phone it is. or if it does, if there's someway to have it report itself as something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that if you try to activate an EVO on a SERO plan it will not only charge you the $10/mo premium data fee but it will also require you to change to an Everything * plan. They know what type of phone it is based on the ESN you put in to activate it.
yes Sprint knows what phone is active
Yes Sprint knows what phone you have because you have a serial number that is registered with sprint. This serial number is what the network uses to allow you to make calls billing etc. Being sprint uses a serial number they know what your phone is not like a sim where you can just switch to another phone. Hope this helps any more questions let me know.
Sorry for the confusion - i am aware i'll have to switch to an everything plan. Plus i will have to pay the $10/month on top of the everything plan.
I'd consider paying the everything plan. But the $10 fee really pisses me off since they are basically just making up an excuse to ask for an extra $10 and not giving me anything for the $10 that i wouldn't get with any other android or winmo phone.
How does the ESN # tell them what phone i have? Do they have a database with all the ESN numbers in it? or is the number formatted in a certain way that it containts the model number?
I don't suppose there's any way for me to spoof the esn and have it appear to be the same as my current phone?
thanks
HTC could very well give sprint and all of the carriers for which they develope exclusive phones the unique ESN numbers. That's how they would match the ESN to whatever phone you activate.
If anyone finds a way to spoof the ESN, you'd be cutting deeper into the pockets of sprint. They don't care too much that we modders get free tethering because the average person wouldn't go through all of the trouble rooting the phone, not to mention that they know, that we know, we're already paying for the data. It's kinda like Sprint saying, "Ok, you are paying for it anyway, so, if you can do it, go aheadn and root your phone."
Once you start spoofing ESN numbers on a mass scale, and circumventing that $10 surcharge, you can guarantee all of this rooting will be put to an end.
merkk said:
Sorry for the confusion - i am aware i'll have to switch to an everything plan. Plus i will have to pay the $10/month on top of the everything plan.
I'd consider paying the everything plan. But the $10 fee really pisses me off since they are basically just making up an excuse to ask for an extra $10 and not giving me anything for the $10 that i wouldn't get with any other android or winmo phone.
How does the ESN # tell them what phone i have? Do they have a database with all the ESN numbers in it? or is the number formatted in a certain way that it containts the model number?
I don't suppose there's any way for me to spoof the esn and have it appear to be the same as my current phone?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ESN is only on that one phone, and sprint has a database with all sprint activated ESNs. I have heard, sprint will not activate a phone not in their database. As for the ESN "cloning" in can be done, but i believe its not legal.
merkk said:
Sorry for the confusion - i am aware i'll have to switch to an everything plan. Plus i will have to pay the $10/month on top of the everything plan.
I'd consider paying the everything plan. But the $10 fee really pisses me off since they are basically just making up an excuse to ask for an extra $10 and not giving me anything for the $10 that i wouldn't get with any other android or winmo phone.
How does the ESN # tell them what phone i have? Do they have a database with all the ESN numbers in it? or is the number formatted in a certain way that it containts the model number?
I don't suppose there's any way for me to spoof the esn and have it appear to be the same as my current phone?
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW,
As memory serves, Sprint uses both an ESN, and the MAC address to track their customers. It is possible to find, and modify an ESN, and to "spoof" a MAC.
However, other than mention that there are articles in the forums on the ESN (and likely on the MAC). I'll refrain from providing a detailed how-to on the subject - I hope you understand, nothing personal.
HTH
--Chris
DeLL116 said:
HTC could very well give sprint and all of the carriers for which they develope exclusive phones the unique ESN numbers. That's how they would match the ESN to whatever phone you activate.
If anyone finds a way to spoof the ESN, you'd be cutting depper into the pockets of sprint. They don't care too much that we modders get free tethering because the average person wouldn't go through all of the trouble rooting the phone, not to mention that they know, that we know, we're already paying for the data. It's kinda like Spring saying, "Ok, you are paying for it anyway, so, if you can do it, root your phone."
Once you start spoofing ESN numbers on a mass scale, and circumventing that $10 surchage, you can guarantee all of this rooting will be put to an end.
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Click to collapse
I understand what you are saying. but it doesn't change my opinion. I wont pay $10 extra month just because they want it. That $10 doesn't give me anything extra I wouldn't get with any other smart phone. When i asked sprint about it, they told me it was for the enhanced data experience or some crap like that - basically telling me it was due to the larger screen or faster proc - both of which i've already paid for when i buy the phone. And even if they want to argue i MIGHT use more data, so what? I'm already pay for 'unlimited' data. They can charge me $10 when i over the 'unlimited' limit.
They already rip us off with the fees they charge for text messages, so i dont have any sympathy for the cell phone companies. I'm not trying to get something for free. I'm willing to keep paying my monthly bill. I'm just not willing to pay a made up fee that doesn't give me any additional service just because i want a phone, that i'll be paying for, with a bigger screen/fast cpu.
bwcorvus said:
The ESN is only on that one phone, and sprint has a database with all sprint activated ESNs. I have heard, sprint will not activate a phone not in their database. As for the ESN "cloning" in can be done, but i believe its not legal.
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Click to collapse
would an 'unlocked' phone be one that's not in there db?
CTH-EVO said:
FWIW,
As memory serves, Sprint uses both an ESN, and the MAC address to track their customers. It is possible to find, and modify an ESN, and to "spoof" a MAC.
However, other than mention that there are articles in the forums on the ESN (and likely on the MAC). I'll refrain from providing a detailed how-to on the subject - I hope you understand, nothing personal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not taken personally - i'll do some googleing later on the esn and see what i find. thanks
merkk said:
I understand what you are saying. but it doesn't change my opinion. I wont pay $10 extra month just because they want it. That $10 doesn't give me anything extra I wouldn't get with any other smart phone. When i asked sprint about it, they told me it was for the enhanced data experience or some crap like that - basically telling me it was due to the larger screen or faster proc - both of which i've already paid for when i buy the phone. And even if they want to argue i MIGHT use more data, so what? I'm already pay for 'unlimited' data. They can charge me $10 when i over the 'unlimited' limit.
They already rip us off with the fees they charge for text messages, so i dont have any sympathy for the cell phone companies. I'm not trying to get something for free. I'm willing to keep paying my monthly bill. I'm just not willing to pay a made up fee that doesn't give me any additional service just because i want a phone, that i'll be paying for, with a bigger screen/fast cpu.
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Click to collapse
I completely agree with you, man. I was actually thinking about the dumb-ass explanation that Sprint gave me when I asked them why I'd be charged an extra $10 a month. I remember saying something to the salesgirl like, "You know that's all bull****, right."
Go spoofing to your heart's greatest desire, I'm just saying, when you take money out of someone's pocket, you start drawing more heat.
Just talked my sister that sells phones, she said yes the esn tells sprint the model number...so your only option would be to "clone" the esn of your old phone.
Every single ESN is in sprints database from the beginning of time, notkidding, try and activate a 15 year old phone (ive done it) pulls up model of phone and not only that but history of phone accounts its been on, service thats been performed on the phone previously, if its been reported, lost, stolen, flagged as liquid damage.
Absolutely everything is there and will pull up in accordance to the ESN related t the device.
The absolute only way to do it would be to clone the ESN onto an EVO of a different model and activate it over the phone (in which case some services on your phone may not work properly) but should as long as you select an appropriate device to clone.
Now on to how to clone an ESN...... NO IDEA!! lol sorry, I've never seen it done or come across a situation where it was done, I have however heard of it being done, but its not easy and your going to have to do it yourself, so if your not a programmer, you best take some schooling or give up on the idea (afik)
sprint is cheaper and you get more for your money than any other provider per value and the only major carrier cheaper afik is T-mobile or small company's, time to get over it boys and girls, its 10$ it goes to a good cause, you eat up a crapload of bandwidth and it costs alot of money to expand the network (you want good service right?) if not just goto ATT
oh and it always gives you additional service, it just depends if your in 4g coverage or not, if you go there its available to you, !! I do agree that they should have an option to disable 4G and then you dont have to pay for it.
but thats just not the situation.
Should my monthly bill be cheaper because my house is in a roaming area and I don't get 3G? why isn't my bill cheaper than yours because you getz da 3g's!?!
Stop being so simple minded, seriously, the service is available to you on the network, just not where you live.
It is what it is, and until they make it so you can disable 4g and not get charged there's nothing thats going to change this situation, your still paying less than verizon and ATT
You're question has been answered. Yes it is bs that I pay an extra 10 for nothing. That 10 is a 4g charge by the way. Don't know why no one mentioned that. But I don't even get 4g in my town. None the less, Sprint still has the cheapest plans for what you get. Trust me I have checked. With my unlimited everything 450 minutes and 4g I can get out the door at 80. Compare that to atts 100. But as was said, cloaning an esn would not be legal and I'm not sure that road of discusssion should be taken. Its a buzz kill that you'd have to upgrade your plan. But you have the choice.
Alanmw86 said:
Every single ESN is in sprints database from the beginning of time, notkidding, try and activate a 15 year old phone (ive done it) pulls up model of phone and not only that but history of phone accounts its been on, service thats been performed on the phone previously, if its been reported, lost, stolen, flagged as liquid damage.
Absolutely everything is there and will pull up in accordance to the ESN related t the device.
The absolute only way to do it would be to clone the ESN onto an EVO of a different model and activate it over the phone (in which case some services on your phone may not work properly) but should as long as you select an appropriate device to clone.
Now on to how to clone an ESN...... NO IDEA!! lol sorry, I've never seen it done or come across a situation where it was done, I have however heard of it being done, but its not easy and your going to have to do it yourself, so if your not a programmer, you best take some schooling or give up on the idea (afik)
sprint is cheaper and you get more for your money than any other provider per value and the only major carrier cheaper afik is T-mobile or small company's, time to get over it boys and girls, its 10$ it goes to a good cause, you eat up a crapload of bandwidth and it costs alot of money to expand the network (you want good service right?) if not just goto ATT
oh and it always gives you additional service, it just depends if your in 4g coverage or not, if you go there its available to you, !! I do agree that they should have an option to disable 4G and then you dont have to pay for it.
but thats just not the situation.
Should my monthly bill be cheaper because my house is in a roaming area and I don't get 3G? why isn't my bill cheaper than yours because you getz da 3g's!?!
Stop being so simple minded, seriously, the service is available to you on the network, just not where you live.
It is what it is, and until they make it so you can disable 4g and not get charged there's nothing thats going to change this situation, your still paying less than verizon and ATT
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Click to collapse
i agree that $10 is $10... what r u honestly gonna do with that extra $10 a month... It wont go very far elsewhere... If ur that worried about money maybe u should switch to Metro or prepaid. Why not use that $10 to enhance ur mobile phone experience? As long as u know the ramifications of cloning esns and that it's a serious FEDERAL crime nd not some silly civil misdemeanor and that there is not a one click method to do it like rooting a phone then have at it but also beware that some services may not work. And yes compare ATT and or Verizon and see how much better of a deal ur getting with sprint even with the $10 4g surcharge... if u don't want to pay it then switch to TMo and buy the nexus one... it's just as good as the EVO without the 4g surcharge...
im not 100% certain how illegal it is to clone an ESN, so long as the the ESN you are cloning is your own.
but im certain its something thats not worth your time either way.
BTW there is as of October 1 a new plan called SERO Premium which will work with the newer phones such as Android phones and Palm Pre. The rate plan is $40 so the EVO would be $50 including the extra fee. Not quite the $30 you're currently paying, but it is cheaper than EPRP and includes Any Mobile, Anytime.
Don't go that route. Definitely illegal, even if its your own esn. As per the fcc;
Fraud
Cellular fraud is defined as the unauthorized use, tampering, or manipulation of a cellular phone or service. Cellular industry estimates indicate that carriers lose millions per year to cellular fraud, with the principal cause being subscription fraud. Subscriber fraud occurs when a subscriber signs up for service with fraudulently obtained customer information or false identification.
In the past, cloning of cellular phones was a major concern. A cloned cellular telephone is one that has been reprogrammed to transmit the electronic serial number (ESN) and telephone number (MIN) belonging to another (legitimate) cellular telephone. Unscrupulous persons obtain valid ESN/MIN combinations by illegally monitoring the transmissions from the cellular telephones of legitimate subscribers. Each cellular telephone is supposed to have a unique factory-set ESN. After cloning, however, because both cellular telephones have the same ESN/MIN combination, cellular systems cannot distinguish the cloned cellular telephone from the legitimate one.
The Commission considers any knowing use of cellular telephone with an altered ESN to be a violation of the Communications Act (Section 301) and alteration of the ESN in a cellular telephone to be assisting in such violation. The Wireless Telephone Protection Act (Public Law 105-172) was signed into law on April 24, 1998, expanding the prior law to criminalize the use, possession, manufacture or sale of cloning hardware or software. The cellular equipment manufacturing industry has deployed authentication systems that have proven to be a very effective countermeasure to cloning. Authentication supplements the use of the ESN and MIN with a changing encrypted code that can not be obtained by off-the-air monitoring.
And the $10 fee has nothing to do with 4g - its a front facing camera fee. Every new Sprint phone with a front facing camera will have that fee.
Sent from my blah blah blah blah
merkk said:
I understand what you are saying. but it doesn't change my opinion. I wont pay $10 extra month just because they want it. That $10 doesn't give me anything extra I wouldn't get with any other smart phone. When i asked sprint about it, they told me it was for the enhanced data experience or some crap like that - basically telling me it was due to the larger screen or faster proc - both of which i've already paid for when i buy the phone. And even if they want to argue i MIGHT use more data, so what? I'm already pay for 'unlimited' data. They can charge me $10 when i over the 'unlimited' limit.
They already rip us off with the fees they charge for text messages, so i dont have any sympathy for the cell phone companies. I'm not trying to get something for free. I'm willing to keep paying my monthly bill. I'm just not willing to pay a made up fee that doesn't give me any additional service just because i want a phone, that i'll be paying for, with a bigger screen/fast cpu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's an idea. If you do not like paying the cost of the service, do not get the cell phone that requires that. Get something else. That's the luxury you get for having such a great phone.
Also, this should be locked. Anyone that wants to do an illegal activity should just be smacked. The cloning, or manipulation of an esn is a federal offense. 10$ a month/different cell phone > 5 years in jail.
What is this crap. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...king-of-smartphones-becomes-illegal-saturday/
Not a fan of this
Heres my thoughts. Everybody will ***** and complain about this, but nobody will do anything about it. They will not tell us what we can and cant do with OUR own property. Sure, its now illegal to unlock our phones. The solution is simple, stop buying phones from all the carriers! Everybody stop buying phones and watch them all crumble without us. If everybody is not willing to stick together and make a stand....then dont ***** about the problem.
Sent from my SGH-I747M
While this still does suck you guys do realize this just means carrier unlocking right? Like unlocking so you can use an att phone in tmobile and vice versa. Plus it doesn't sound like it applies if you buy an unlocked phone or get the code from your carrier.
Sent via carrier pigeon...
Already a thread on this.... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2116859
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium
So much for America " the land of the free"
"Free," as in market and due rights. No one said anything about manufacturers property.
Am I the only person in America who never goes to the AT&T store besides when I initially buy my phone? If it breaks, I fix it. It there's cellular issues or internal problems I go online and send it in. People are too dependent on the actual carriers. This is why they enact such measures like this because they know a majority of Americans see no other choice but to be subjected to such laws. From home if I unlock my phone I guarantee AT&T can't detect it and since I never go in to the store, they can't deny insurance that I never buy or warranties I always break after flashing the my phones an hour after I receive them.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Mr Patchy Patch said:
Heres my thoughts. Everybody will ***** and complain about this, but nobody will do anything about it. They will not tell us what we can and cant do with OUR own property. Sure, its now illegal to unlock our phones. The solution is simple, stop buying phones from all the carriers! Everybody stop buying phones and watch them all crumble without us. If everybody is not willing to stick together and make a stand....then dont ***** about the problem.
Sent from my SGH-I747M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As soon as Google releases an LTE-compliant Nexus (or X Phone, or whatever else they may call it in the future), I will never purchase another carrier/OEM-branded phone again. In fact, I am seriously considering holding on to my S3 until such a phone comes out. LTE is becoming more and more ubiquitous, so it's only a matter of time until an unlocked, unbranded stock Android phone comes out that supports it. After all, the Nexus 4 has LTE capability (not an LTE antenna, though), and some crafty tinkerers managed to get it to connect to LTE.
There is a similar thread over on the TMo side (which is what I have), but I posted this in there.
It is NOT going to be illegal for you to unlock your phone. It WILL be if you do it without the permission of your carrier. That means that T-Mobile and AT&T will have to do it for you. For Verizon (and Maybe Sprint but not sure), there is an FCC requirement that any devices utilizing 700MHz for LTE cannot be locked.
Woody said:
There is a similar thread over on the TMo side (which is what I have), but I posted this in there.
It is NOT going to be illegal for you to unlock your phone. It WILL be if you do it without the permission of your carrier. That means that T-Mobile and AT&T will have to do it for you. For Verizon (and Maybe Sprint but not sure), there is an FCC requirement that any devices utilizing 700MHz for LTE cannot be locked.
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Click to collapse
This fact alone doesn't make it any less BS. We, not the carriers, are the rightful owners of the phone. As such, the decision of what we want to do with our phone should be made by us, not the carriers. Why should we get permission from the carrier to unlock the phone? If, for instance, I buy a Chevrolet, should I be legally required to obtain permission from General Motors before using another manufacturer's parts?
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.
Woody said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.
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Click to collapse
I just found the article linked below, which states that only phones purchased after January 26, 2013 will be affected by the new law. In other words, we are not affected by this law.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/tech/mobile/smartphone-unlocking-illegal/index.html?hpt=hp_t4
I'd be interested in looking into the logistics behind ownership of subsidized phones. I was always under the impression that a phone subsidy was an incentive to entice customers to sign a two year contract; after all, we are charged an early termination fee if we break the contract early, yet the device is ours to keep. Moreover, there's no formal lease agreement.
I completely agree with your analogy, but it's more applicable to rooting, rather than unlocking. From what I understand, rooting a phone automatically voids its warranty, regardless of manufacturer. Unlocking a phone, on the other hand, never voided the warranty. After all, no additional software is installed as part of the unlock process.
Woody said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from and it is BS. But from what I have read on this, it is for phone that are purchased under contract (subsidies). In that case, most people do not own the phone. It is more of a lease until you pay it off at the end. Once the phone is paid off, then you can unlock at will.
As for your Chevy example, let me play devil's advocate. You buy a Chevy and while you don't specifically have to ask them for permission to use a Ford gear shifter, your warranty probably states that only factory supplied or authorized materials can be used, otherwise you void the warranty upon installation. You intall the Ford gear shifter and somehow that destroys your transmission and shreds the gears. Is this covered by GM? They will probably say no because you installed an after-market device that caused the problem.
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Click to collapse
I've heard even if you buy a phone outright from a provider the law is still upheld even though you bought it out of contract.
---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------
kgbkny said:
I just found the article linked below, which states that only phones purchased after January 26, 2013 will be affected by the new law. In other words, we are not affected by this law.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/tech/mobile/smartphone-unlocking-illegal/index.html?hpt=hp_t4
I'd be interested in looking into the logistics behind ownership of subsidized phones. I was always under the impression that a phone subsidy was an incentive to entice customers to sign a two year contract; after all, we are charged an early termination fee if we break the contract early, yet the device is ours to keep. Moreover, there's no formal lease agreement.
I completely agree with your analogy, but it's more applicable to rooting, rather than unlocking. From what I understand, rooting a phone automatically voids its warranty, regardless of manufacturer. Unlocking a phone, on the other hand, never voided the warranty. After all, no additional software is installed as part of the unlock process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also curious of they will void the warranty now if a phone is unlocked...
there is no way to relock it either so you'd be screwed
Well I feel like if you buy a phone out right and pay full retail or whatever not the 199.999 2yr contract price then you should be able to do what ever you want to it.
Its like nike saying ok you bought our air max's you can only wear nike socks with them don't let us catch you wear reebok or adidas socks.
dligon said:
Well I feel like if you buy a phone out right and pay full retail or whatever not the 199.999 2yr contract price then you should be able to do what ever you want to it.
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Click to collapse
And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.
Woody said:
And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.
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Click to collapse
do they actually have to by law if you buy it outright?
Probably not by law but it is your property (once paid off) and if you don't have a contract then there should be no ties that bind. Now if you are using THEIR service/bandwidth they can enforce certain criteria based on services rendered.
Anyone can file a complaint, it is just hard to determine where and to whom it would be most effective.
Edit: I think I might get a copy of this law in the morning and read it on the pooper. I have a legal background so I can decipher some legalese. Anyone got a link? Not to another news source, but the actual law.
Woody said:
Probably not by law but it is your property (once paid off) and if you don't have a contract then there should be no ties that bind. Now if you are using THEIR service/bandwidth they can enforce certain criteria based on services rendered.
Anyone can file a complaint, it is just hard to determine where and to whom it would be most effective.
Edit: I think I might get a copy of this law in the morning and read it on the pooper. I have a legal background so I can decipher some legalese. Anyone got a link? Not to another news source, but the actual law.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if they could charge you a fee to unlock after you buying it outright
Woody said:
And you can. If you buy it outright from ATT then they can unlock it for you. You just can't take it down to Unlock City and have them do it.
Now if ATT refuses to unlock it, then there is just cause for you to file a non-compliance complaint against them.
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Click to collapse
Well att, tmo, probably would honor unlocking the phones. Verizon you may have trouble with as always
Ill never buy a carrier branded phone again
The Librarian of Congress decided in October 2012 that unlocking of cell phones would be removed from the exceptions to the DMCA.
As of January 26, consumers will no longer be able unlock their phones for use on a different network without carrier permission, even after their contract has expired.
Consumers will be forced to pay exorbitant roaming fees to make calls while traveling abroad. It reduces consumer choice, and decreases the resale value of devices that consumers have paid for in full.
The Librarian noted that carriers are offering more unlocked phones at present, but the great majority of phones sold are still locked.
We ask that the White House ask the Librarian of Congress to rescind this decision, and failing that, champion a bill that makes unlocking permanently legal.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-unlocking-cell-phones-legal/1g9KhZG7
I believe this only applies to new phones.. and you have 90 days from the date of the law to unlock your phone without any penalties.
page 16 of the docket: https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2012-26308.pdf
so most of us are okay. but it sucks for people buying new phones. Might be okay on used phones, but I haven't gotten to that part yet.
chances are they'll revise the law in 2 years.
Seeing as T-Mobile is doing away with subsidized phones and the other carriers will probably follow suit much the same as international markets then one would no longer have a need to lock into a2 year contract unless of course there are to be plan discounts. That said there should be no reason for a carrier to refuse to unlock a phone that a consumer is now paying full price for, which is pushing $600 to $700 for the newest high end models.
I certainly don't agree that we should be paying upwards of $700 for something that has a realistic life span of 2 years, i would expect a laptop of the same price to last 5+. However i do agree that if you purchased a phone at a lower subsidized price and signed a two year contract then no you should not be able to Sim unlock it. Now if you pay your early term fees and are clear of your contact them there should be no reason for a carrier to deny unlocking said device.
If you are a person that travels abroad and need an unlocked phone them you should take that into consideration at time of purchase or contact the carrier to deal with it then.
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I'm not sure but can this be posted in other threads without getting in trouble so we can make everyone know about this situation?
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blakdrew said:
I'm not sure but can this be posted in other threads without getting in trouble so we can make everyone know about this situation?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda premium
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I don't see why not...but whats the point? Everyone should know about this by now, its been mentioned on various websites all over the internet.
Also, no offense to the OP but this petition is pretty useless, I mean, we all know how good petitions (ones pertaining to mobile phones) have worked before. Companies don't pay attention to it, so I doubt Congress will. The whole issue is redundant seeing as whoever wants to unlock their phone, will end up unlocking it, whatever the law may be. Its not like the government will set up random checkpoints to take your phone and make sure its not unlocked. People are just over reacting like they usually do. Its been illegal to download music and movies for a few years now and that doesn't seem to stop the people doing it. The only thing I see the this law harming are the various websites and ebay auctions that make money from unlocking phones. The truth is compared to the old Nokia days, smart phones(some, not all) are pretty easy to unlock.
One of the provisions is if you buy a phone from a 3rd party youre exempt.
My opinion? Its a sad day in this country when you dont have complete ownership of some you purchase.
Today its phones, tomorrow its......?
blackangst said:
My opinion? Its a sad day in this country when you dont have complete ownership of some you purchase.
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I know. Even the cell phone industry (CTIA) basically admitted in its arguments to the Library of Congress that the reason they want this is purely in order to protect their business model (based on subsidies) and has nothing to do with copyright. It's bizarre to claim that it can possibly be a violation of copyright to use a physical device that you fully own the way you want. And it's pathetic that the U.S. is so far behind the rest of the world in terms of having a rational competitive wireless market.
Again the last two posts even though they stated the point they missed it. The carriers offer phones at a subsidised price to get subscribers to sign two year contracts not because they want to give you a good deal but because they want you to use and pay for their services fort that time. Prior to this law anyone could go and purchase a phone at a lower price and a month later decide to jump ship, sim unlock their phone and go to another carrier or worse stay with said carrier and sell the new phone for a profit. I could feasibly add a line to my account for an extra $5 a month which comes to $120 over two years, get a $600 phone for around $200 sim unlock it and sell it on eBay at the $600 price. That's a $280 profit in my pocket.
So the carriers shouldn't protect themselves from this type of activity.
Don't get me wrong i think all the carriers rape their customers every chance they get and i don't agree with 95% percent of what they do but trying to petition Congress over this is totally dumb. Maybe petition Congress to get reasonable cell phone pricing. Or how about the fact that i pay the same rate in an area with sketchy service as a person that live in Seattle and had great service.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
yeah, but all carriers have ETF's (Early Termination Fees) that you have to pay if you jump ship before fulfilling your contract. That should take care of the subsidized cost of the phone.
mike-y said:
yeah, but all carriers have ETF's (Early Termination Fees) that you have to pay if you jump ship before fulfilling your contract. That should take care of the subsidized cost of the phone.
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Yes if those fees actually get paid. Or most likely someone who is being shady in the first place will just let those fees go to collection and later written off in bankruptcy or simply forgotten about for years and years.
Take me for example, i got my phone for $99 (2 of them actually) and i am very unhappy with T-Mobile but still have 18 months on my contract well my thought is to unlock the phone, jump ship, and worry about the early term fees at a later date which by the way wouldn't be in my name anyway. So really if i break up with my girlfriend then I'm not responsible and i just made a $400 profit. Now i have two reasons not to do all that 1I'm not a shady person and 2 its now illegal.
My point is that all one needs to do is ask the carrier to unlock the phone and if there are no contact obligations then the carrier has no reason not to. The only ones that should have issue are those trying to be shady.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
explodingboy70 said:
Again the last two posts even though they stated the point they missed it. The carriers offer phones at a subsidised price to get subscribers to sign two year contracts not because they want to give you a good deal but because they want you to use and pay for their services fort that time. Prior to this law anyone could go and purchase a phone at a lower price and a month later decide to jump ship, sim unlock their phone and go to another carrier or worse stay with said carrier and sell the new phone for a profit. I could feasibly add a line to my account for an extra $5 a month which comes to $120 over two years, get a $600 phone for around $200 sim unlock it and sell it on eBay at the $600 price. That's a $280 profit in my pocket.
So the carriers shouldn't protect themselves from this type of activity.
Don't get me wrong i think all the carriers rape their customers every chance they get and i don't agree with 95% percent of what they do but trying to petition Congress over this is totally dumb. Maybe petition Congress to get reasonable cell phone pricing. Or how about the fact that i pay the same rate in an area with sketchy service as a person that live in Seattle and had great service.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
explodingboy70 said:
Yes if those fees actually get paid. Or most likely someone who is being shady in the first place will just let those fees go to collection and later written off in bankruptcy or simply forgotten about for years and years.
Take me for example, i got my phone for $99 (2 of them actually) and i am very unhappy with T-Mobile but still have 18 months on my contract well my thought is to unlock the phone, jump ship, and worry about the early term fees at a later date which by the way wouldn't be in my name anyway. So really if i break up with my girlfriend then I'm not responsible and i just made a $400 profit. Now i have two reasons not to do all that 1I'm not a shady person and 2 its now illegal.
My point is that all one needs to do is ask the carrier to unlock the phone and if there are no contact obligations then the carrier has no reason not to. The only ones that should have issue are those trying to be shady.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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No, sir, I believe YOU are missing the point if you honestly believe this is about carriers trying to recoup their $$$ from subsidized phones. Seriously? NOTHING in the bill states carriers can unlock phones after a contract is fulfilled, or that they have to. Therefore, after said contract is fulfilled, you STILL own a device you dont have control over.
Do you own a house? Do you have a mortgage? If so, you know that just by paying off the mortgage it doesnt give you any more property ownership rights that you didnt have when you signed the mortgage. Once you've signed it, you legally own it, even though you still owe money on it. Until this overreaching law took effect, it was that way for phones (for the most part).
explodingboy70 said:
Again the last two posts even though they stated the point they missed it. The carriers offer phones at a subsidised price to get subscribers to sign two year contracts not because they want to give you a good deal but because they want you to use and pay for their services fort that time. Prior to this law anyone could go and purchase a phone at a lower price and a month later decide to jump ship, sim unlock their phone and go to another carrier or worse stay with said carrier and sell the new phone for a profit. I could feasibly add a line to my account for an extra $5 a month which comes to $120 over two years, get a $600 phone for around $200 sim unlock it and sell it on eBay at the $600 price. That's a $280 profit in my pocket.
So the carriers shouldn't protect themselves from this type of activity.
Don't get me wrong i think all the carriers rape their customers every chance they get and i don't agree with 95% percent of what they do but trying to petition Congress over this is totally dumb. Maybe petition Congress to get reasonable cell phone pricing. Or how about the fact that i pay the same rate in an area with sketchy service as a person that live in Seattle and had great service.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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You forgot an important point in your comment. YOU HAVE TO PAY 20-30USD PER MONTH FOR DATA! Therefore, your cost of adding a line is 120$+20x12=360$. So the profit is not as great as you mentioned.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
What's next? Putting restrictions on oxygen?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using xda premium
Signed and reposted on Hackforums.
http://www.hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=3226550
Hope you don't mind.
I linked this thread, and quoted the contents of the OP.
Figure it'd be good to get it out to a broader audience.
45,000 more signatures needed.
Go ahead and put my name on it. I'm too lazy to register, and I don't want a bunch of new e-mails trying to get me sign a bunch of other petitions.
And to the debate: Use an Obama phone, Save your money, and BUY a phone outright. The faster they see that this hurts the big TWO (AT&T, Verizon), it will change.
If you're impatient and want a phone NOW, understand the consequences. You are licensing that phone, and may never own it. And you'll also be advertising for whatever company you go with.
Yes, I know I'm advertising for T-Mobile in my signature. That's because I think they are honest, and very beneficial to the XDA community.
explodingboy70 said:
Again the last two posts even though they stated the point they missed it. The carriers offer phones at a subsidized price to get subscribers to sign two year contracts not because they want to give you a good deal but because they want you to use and pay for their services fort that time. Prior to this law anyone could go and purchase a phone at a lower price and a month later decide to jump ship, sim unlock their phone and go to another carrier or worse stay with said carrier and sell the new phone for a profit. I could feasibly add a line to my account for an extra $5 a month which comes to $120 over two years, get a $600 phone for around $200 sim unlock it and sell it on eBay at the $600 price. That's a $280 profit in my pocket.
So the carriers shouldn't protect themselves from this type of activity.
Don't get me wrong i think all the carriers rape their customers every chance they get and i don't agree with 95% percent of what they do but trying to petition Congress over this is totally dumb. Maybe petition Congress to get reasonable cell phone pricing. Or how about the fact that i pay the same rate in an area with sketchy service as a person that live in Seattle and had great service.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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WELL SAID! BRAVO! This I would support as well as many others!
I have been on this side of things for a long time! I used to live in Seattle, had Sprint and Verizon because ATT and T-Mobile are both very sketchy up there, Verizon is top dawg and since Sprint uses Verizon's towers and is cheaper than anyone else, you get the best phones (imo) and best value, not to mention unlimited data.
That being said, I recently moved to Dallas, and Sprint/Verizon down here are really terrible! I mean Seattle, West Seattle I was pulling upwards of 70mb down and 50-60's up, ridiculous speeds, but made it a lot better when you paid your bill because you felt like you were getting something! Down in Dallas I never saw it go past 10-15mb. Not to mention my signal bars never reached full unless I was under a tower.
Tmobile, my current provider (only for another week or so) is just terrible everywhere. Best I have seen them anywhere is 6-10mb, and I'm sorry but they claim to have better call quality than ATT now, which is horse$hit! Dropped calls, taking over a minute just to start dialing, and when you do talk, lets just say its not good.
I just think that payment plans should be based on where you are at in their coverage area. (If you leave state/town for a trip that's on you). That's like car companies making you pay retail price for a used car same as a new one! Would you do it?
I hope you guys know they unlocking your device is legal. What's illegal is buying an unlock code from online sources. You can no longer just go online and pay a small fee (like $10) for the unlock code. You can call your service provider (T-Mobile as an example) and ask them for the code. (They shouldn't have a problem giving it to you.) Another way of legally unlocking your device is by doing a method like the one in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2024514
Or you could have someone that knows coding and have then do it for you. (As long as it is not through an online coding site you are good.)
Source: T-Mobile employee and target mobile employee.
----------------------------------------------
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ideas:
Spoiler
-launcher/lock screen
-line rider type game where you control the character
-2d fighting game like art of fighting for the SNES
-multiplayer fps where you create your own map with a creative mode (minecraft style)
-roller coaster tycoon style game
-many more!
Just message me which idea you want info on and I'll tell you!
----------------------------------------------
Well said Ariana....
Service provider must ... unlock the device at any time and at no charge.
At least that's what the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) is recommending.
It's warm day in February when I have something good to say about the CRTC but they do finally appear to cracking down on service provider fees, lengthy contracts, and cell phone locking.
I mention this because the title of this thread sounds like the opposite of ongoing discussions in Canada about how North American consumers are paying more than cell phone customers the world over.
More information by search for "Buyer's remorse" and CBC or go to the Canadian governments CRTC website to download a full pdf of current proposal.
(I'd give you the links, but I'm newly registered here
It's currently on my Sprint plan. I want to be able to use it on other providers as well.
call them and find out what can be done?
raul6 said:
call them and find out what can be done?
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I'm not paid off for another 7 months so they won't.
Pay them off or wait... that's the agreement.
blackhawk said:
Pay them off or wait... that's the agreement.
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That's not how XDA does things, that's no fun. Plus I'm a single parent who lost his job due to the pandemic so I don't have just $700 to throw down.
XDA doesn't condone theft of services as best I can tell.
Even if you did unlock it the carrier could still blacklist it.
Perhaps you could refinance it through your current carrier.
Talk to their retention dept.
There's absolutely NO possible way to perpetrate "theft of service" with a wireless carrier so don't go there. It's very simple. If you don't pay your bill what happens? They disconnect your service until you pay your bill. Therefore they don't allow people to steal service from them. Impossible. As for the devices bought on flex lease, etc. They technically belong to the carrier until you complete the lease and pay the phone off. If you don't pay off the device what happens? They simply blacklist the IMEID and report your delinquent account to the credit beureas and if enough time goes by they will sell your delinquent account to third party collections companies. 5he cost of phones don't warrant the cost of court filing and attorney fees in order to try to physically reclaim devices from account holders who went into collections due to non-payment. No need to preach to people espif you don't know what you're talking about.
OP there are websites out there that can SIM unlock your Samsung for a fee. If you SIM unlock the phone and activate it BEFORE your Sprint account were to go to collections, it will continue to work on another carrier. Im not assuming you have no intentions of paying your bill I'm just letting you know. No matter what, its not theft of service. It could only be theft of property in the eyes of the law. But that never happens.
Wrong terminology on my part, my bad, but your plan tx_dbs_tx doesn't sound that great.
Be best to find a way to minimize the damage to the OP's credit.
https://cashmoneylife.com/cancel-your-cell-phone-contract-without-paying-fees/
Again I would talk to the retaintion dept at Sprint. Most carriers have them. Their sole purpose is to retain customers.
Nickdroid86 said:
That's not how XDA does things, that's no fun. Plus I'm a single parent who lost his job due to the pandemic so I don't have just $700 to throw down.
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Click to collapse
Wrong, XDA is not about circumventing legal stuff, and, any way you see it, a debt is a debt, you have to pay, no way around it, things we all use/buy, must be paid in full, you say you are a single parent, so, better try to be a reponsible one, one that pays his debts and doesn't look for ways to avoid being responsible
winol said:
Wrong, XDA is not about circumventing legal stuff, and, any way you see it, a debt is a debt, you have to pay, no way around it, things we all use/buy, must be paid in full, you say you are a single parent, so, better try to be a reponsible one, one that pays his debts and doesn't look for ways to avoid being responsible
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Nobody's talking about avoiding my debt here... I'm not getting rid of my Sprint account, especially while I'm working on my credit.
Paid unlock link removed!!
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Nickdroid86 said:
Nobody's talking about avoiding my debt here... I'm not getting rid of my Sprint account, especially while I'm working on my credit.
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Click to collapse
What is your reason(s) to have it unlocked?
If you don't want coverage by Sprint the best solution be to get another carrier to take over the contract as per the link I posted.
Not sure how well that will work... exploring those options might yield a good outcome.
If you've really gotten behind and are paying off old debts with little or no emergency money... talk with a good bankruptcy lawyer. It's more complicated then it was 20 years ago but within 3 or so years you be debt free and be able to easily rebuild your credit.
blackhawk said:
What is your reason(s) to have it unlocked?
If you don't want coverage by Sprint the best solution be to get another carrier to take over the contract as per the link I posted.
Not sure how well that will work... exploring those options might yield a good outcome.
If you've really gotten behind and are paying off old debts with little or no emergency money... talk with a good bankruptcy lawyer. It's more complicated then it was 20 years ago but within 3 or so years you be debt free and be able to easily rebuild your credit.
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Click to collapse
I live in the mountains, where I travel around here I'll only have the option to use one provider and not the other and vice versa in places.
Nickdroid86 said:
I live in the mountains, where I travel around here I'll only have the option to use one provider and not the other and vice versa in places.
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Explain that to the retainment team and see what they can do. The squeaky wheel gets the grease; keep calling and/or escalating your case until you get someone that helps you.
At times it's taken me 30+ calls to get things straight with corporation's.
Only persistent is omnipotent...
A signal booster/external antenna is another potential option for you if some signal is present.
Thread closed.
Paid unlocking services, or the discussion there of are not permitted on XDA as per XDA rule #11. Let us please refrain from further discussions such as these. Thank you.
I understand that that's normal, last year there was a workaround so I just figured I'd ask to see if there was currently any similar options, as I'd love to check out some custom roms, Thanks for any info!
Just pay them off. The actual amount may be far less than you think especially if in the last year or two of the contract.
I know from stories I heard from friends that AT&T can be very persistent and aggressive about a customer reneging on a contract... for years.
They may blacklist the imei.
If you're having trouble with your plan, and need to lower costs try talking to their Customer Loyalty Group ie Retainment Dept. They can offer you service deals and packages not normally available. The squeaky wheel gets the grease...
blackhawk said:
Just pay them off. The actual amount may be far less than you think especially if in the last year or two of the contract.
I know from stories I heard from friends that AT&T can be very persistent and aggressive about a customer reneging on a contract... for years.
They may blacklist the imei.
If you're having trouble with your plan, and need to lower costs try talking to their Customer Loyalty Group ie Retainment Dept. They can offer you service deals and packages not normally available. The squeaky wheel gets the grease...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Paying the device off outright isn't possible. Every other phone I've ever had from them I was always able to get them to let me unlock it. I don't think I've ever seen a carrier that DOESN'T blacklist a stolen phone lmfao. Thx for the info, if finances end up tough that'll be good to know. The pixel 6 pro came out this past October. It'll be awhile before I've had it a year or two lol.
Doesn't always matter if you pay them off or not. I'm not sure if this policy is new, but when I went to purchase my 6Pro I wanted to pay it off then and have it unlocked for development. I was told that even if I paid it off, they wouldn't issue an unlock for 6 months after my purchase. Heard that from 2 different sources at different locations. Kindof stupid if you ask me... if it's my device, and I pay you for it in full, I should get to develop on it how I want... not how you want me to.
Rescue9 said:
Doesn't always matter if you pay them off or not. I'm not sure if this policy is new, but when I went to purchase my 6Pro I wanted to pay it off then and have it unlocked for development. I was told that even if I paid it off, they wouldn't issue an unlock for 6 months after my purchase. Heard that from 2 different sources at different locations. Kindof stupid if you ask me... if it's my device, and I pay you for it in full, I should get to develop on it how I want... not how you want me to.
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Right, this is why I always buy unlocked and never from any carrier! I would put it on a credit card and pay it off as fast as I could with interest before I'd succumb to their BS!
Rescue9 said:
Doesn't always matter if you pay them off or not. I'm not sure if this policy is new, but when I went to purchase my 6Pro I wanted to pay it off then and have it unlocked for development. I was told that even if I paid it off, they wouldn't issue an unlock for 6 months after my purchase. Heard that from 2 different sources at different locations. Kindof stupid if you ask me... if it's my device, and I pay you for it in full, I should get to develop on it how I want... not how you want me to.
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Click to collapse
It's in the contract and usually not a problem. I have a AT&T N975U (now unlocked) and an unlocked N975U1, not much difference between them. That surprised me however the optimization for both is nearly identical which pleased me
Go with whatever version suites your needs/price range best...