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May seem like an odd question but on my old Kaiser (Windows phone I know) I started to get block errors after flashing Android to NAND repeatedly. The developers and gurus there said it was a known problem and that it would continue to worsen, at which point I stopped
The question is, is it possible to over flash the G2?
I KNOW... different device/hardware/OS and all but I confess to being concerned. Is there any chance that repeated flashing is going to cause long term issues?
Don't think you can but I would like a straight answer from someone who knows what there talking about also
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA Premium App
No. Things just age with use.
It's like the same question with computers, If i never shut it down will it kill my computer? If i reformat my hard drive too much will it kill it? no. while many factors do need to be take into consideration but not so much with phones, And most electronics do have hours powered on stats and each device does have that. but as far as phones i really couldnt tell you.
flash memory can be rewritten 100,000,000 times..... so the answer is yes... (thats a real fact btw)
master.peterm said:
flash memory can be rewritten 100,000,000 times..... so the answer is yes... (thats a real fact btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but not typical. i have a better chance in dropping my phone in the toilet then over flashing haha.
master.peterm said:
flash memory can be rewritten 100,000,000 times..... so the answer is yes... (thats a real fact btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh crap! Since I'm a 'flashaoholic' Its getting up there on that many time times! GEEZ!
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
Once a week....
Thanks to all for the answers. I guess I've got a long way to go to 1,000,000,000 but if devs keep putting out new and improved ROMs I'll keep flashing them.
Good to know the concensus is that, even at one a week I have a few years worth
NAND is typically good to at least tens or hundreds of thousands of read/writes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
So even for flashaholics, the frequency of flashing is really not much of a concern. Sure, there is some tiny possibility that memory can randomly fail at any time. And the more you do it, the higher the chance of that occuring. But its not significant, and I wouldn't worry about it.
Even when talking about flash memory on things like SSD drives, that get re-written much more frequently, I believe the mean failure time is often spoken of as being at least 10 years, and often much longer due to various wear-leveling techniques.
xamadeix said:
No. Things just age with use.
It's like the same question with computers, If i never shut it down will it kill my computer? If i reformat my hard drive too much will it kill it? no. while many factors do need to be take into consideration but not so much with phones, And most electronics do have hours powered on stats and each device does have that. but as far as phones i really couldnt tell you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh I disagree. Reformatting too much can be a problem with flash memory. My mother, for example, always used to reformat her camera SD card instead of just erasing all the images normally (I know, facepalm). Over only two or three years, her pictures were unable to be developed because the SD card was corrupt. The gold strips on it looked like they had been beat to hell. It wasn't a cheap brand either, it was a Sandisk.
Although, with phones I don't think it's a problem. Lets face it, most of us won't have the same phone for over two years, many won't even have them past one year. We won't be using our phones long enough to get to that point.
slapshot30 said:
Eh I disagree. Reformatting too much can be a problem with flash memory. My mother, for example, always used to reformat her camera SD card instead of just erasing all the images normally (I know, facepalm). Over only two or three years, her pictures were unable to be developed because the SD card was corrupt. The gold strips on it looked like they had been beat to hell. It wasn't a cheap brand either, it was a Sandisk.
Although, with phones I don't think it's a problem. Lets face it, most of us won't have the same phone for over two years, many won't even have them past one year. We won't be using our phones long enough to get to that point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know how you thought that reformatting something could physically damage the gold contacts on it. That's probably because she took the card out and put it back in a ton of times.
Sent from my G2 running Cyanogenmod 7.
Omg i was actually thinking of your question.. cause my battery is really hot!! Hopefully its not for that reason.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
ibemad1 said:
I don't know how you thought that reformatting something could physically damage the gold contacts on it. That's probably because she took the card out and put it back in a ton of times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it sounds like some physical abuse, and not just from reformatting it. I've swapped SD and Micro-SD cards in and out of devices and card readers countless times, and never had any damage to the contacts. Mama might be inserted the card incorrectly, or to forcefully.
In any case, that example is just anecdotal. The failure could have been for any random reason. Memory can just stop working one day. Doesn't mean that formatting it was the cause.
Wow....didnt even know that overflashing is possible. ...... . But still on a low number i will get there in less than 10 years (maybe)
Hello all!
This is driving me crazy!
I have the usual collection of apps on my Desire, a couple of Nav software (being the big ones) etc etc.
However I have moved all of the apps, except things like swype, Advanced task killer, and a couple of widgets to my SD card, either with the native android function or with titanium backup.
However i keep getting the dreaded low space warning.
Why is this happening?
If I move the apps to the SD card, why am i still losing space on the phone?
And on a side note, why in 2011 we still have to deal with something a la 1986 with DOS and its memory shenaningans!
short story: not everything is moved when you move something to the sd card.
search on here about the differences between apps2sd vs data2sd (or d2whatever, or d2ext)
Dammit!
But thanks for your answer, at least I know where I stand.
I have lazily avoided going down the app2sd route so far, since didnt want to start the partitioning etc process.
I think I will keep going for a couple of weeks more, until I get my sensation, and in awhile probably have to do this for that one too. Will the sensation have the same problem (apart from higher RAM)?
Honestly, what were google thinking making this setup? Did they except their OS to have only 10 apps created for it?? Talk about believing in success!
HTC designed and manufactured the phones, not Google.
The Senstation should have at least 1GB of internal, as far as I remember.
k.aalai said:
Dammit!
But thanks for your answer, at least I know where I stand.
I have lazily avoided going down the app2sd route so far, since didnt want to start the partitioning etc process.
I think I will keep going for a couple of weeks more, until I get my sensation, and in awhile probably have to do this for that one too. Will the sensation have the same problem (apart from higher RAM)?
Honestly, what were google thinking making this setup? Did they except their OS to have only 10 apps created for it?? Talk about believing in success!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC always put extremely low internal storage onto their phones. Its not Google's fault. The Sensation has a 4GB ROM (But only 1GB is given to users for applications, the rest goes to the system partition etc.).
we really should yell at HTC then huh..? any idea why they do this?
I don't know what its like in your country, but in mine, a phone's lifespan is only about 2 yrs. Carriers offer subsidized upgrades (with contracts mind you), so most people upgrade every couple of years. I have a 800mb ext4 partition with data2sd and still have 400 free. I have over 200 apps installed, not that I use more than 10% of them, lol. I think the 1GB user space on the sensation should last you just fine. One thing to keep in mind is that he sensation bootloader is currently locked, which means hacks like this may not be available for it.
itachi1706 said:
HTC always put extremely low internal storage onto their phones. Its not Google's fault. The Sensation has a 4GB ROM (But only 1GB is given to users for applications, the rest goes to the system partition etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you root and s-off you can change the internal partition table size according to the rom you use. This maximises the space available to you for apps, in my case 332mb instead of 147 that you get with stock.
The processes to do this are pretty painless if you are good with following specific instructions.
Bloody tech companies, screw you in the end one way or another! If its not apple, its MS, and now HTC.
Honestly 150mb of RAM? in 2011????? The first Iphone could use 8Gigs years ago....
Ive had 4 HTCs phone in succession and each one had some issues somewhere. Sad thing is they were the best out there at their respective time!
Why oh why does it seem 95% of products seem to have never been properly thought out or tested!!!!
Rant over....
Thanks for the replies guys, and to add to your replies, yes I am getting an upgrade on contract, and hoping the Sensation bootloader will be unlocked soon (locking them in the first place, another great genius company decision there!).
If the sensation memory is not enough, I suppose will have to go through the ext4 route!
All your replies are much appreciated!
I have a htc desire stock orange uk, S-OFF, rooted.
download Link2sd (you have to be rooted)
With link2sd all I did was use Ubuntu and gparted to partition my 8gb sd card the 2nd partition set at 1024mb and the rest all together and both FAT32, as on the market app info it says ext2, ext3 etc etc can only be used with a custom rom.
hope this helps
This has been a life saver went from 17MB free to Nearly 60MB!!!!!
k.aalai said:
Thanks for the replies guys, and to add to your replies, yes I am getting an upgrade on contract, and hoping the Sensation bootloader will be unlocked soon (locking them in the first place, another great genius company decision there!).
If the sensation memory is not enough, I suppose will have to go through the ext4 route!
All your replies are much appreciated!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The sensation is going to get it's bootloader unlocked in august. And 1gb should be enough for now.
http://m.facebook.com/notes/htc-uk/bootloader-unlocking-progress/241032199259602?_rdr
Sent from my HTC Original Desire using Tapatalk
As time goes on, my two year old EVO is just slow. So my question is sort of two parts. 1) is there any way to use a new sdxc card? I'd assume they'd work, though none are below 64 gigs. Is there any way to actually have the phone recognize the card even if all 64 gigs aren't? I've looked around, and I couldn't find any real answers to this. 2) with an sdxc card with ridiculous read write speeds, is it possible to go crazy and partition the card with 2 gigs free and use this in swap? If so I don't think I'd ever need to upgrade, but that seems too good to be true and I'm assuming it is. This is just my dumb thinking outloud, so any input would be greatly appreciated.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
REAPEROFSOULS06 said:
As time goes on, my two year old EVO is just slow. So my question is sort of two parts. 1) is there any way to use a new sdxc card? I'd assume they'd work, though none are below 64 gigs. Is there any way to actually have the phone recognize the card even if all 64 gigs aren't? I've looked around, and I couldn't find any real answers to this. 2) with an sdxc card with ridiculous read write speeds, is it possible to go crazy and partition the card with 2 gigs free and use this in swap? If so I don't think I'd ever need to upgrade, but that seems too good to be true and I'm assuming it is. This is just my dumb thinking outloud, so any input would be greatly appreciated.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what an SDXC card is,i would guess a type of SD card,but it would be better to delete all of the crap on the SD card thats been present the whole time,which is whats slowing down your phone and probably the stuff on the internal as well,since you have 64GB,you can us 10 GB on the EXT and at least 2 GB on the swap.
I make a habit of formatting and repartitioning at least once a month.
Hi guys, I'm an utter Android Noob (I've watched noob video - yes I'm a noob). After finally getting fed up with waiting for the Big Fruit to release a significant upgrade to the iPhone for 3+ years (still got a 3GS as my primary phone on a great contract - unlimited everything for next to nothing) and not seeing even the 5 as a big enough step forward (and ios6 a step back) I'm jumping ship. I nearly did last year for the Note I but the II has finally convinced me - its better and, just as important, cheaper!
At 40 my eyes are a bit tired for teeny tiny screens and my ipad2 is too heavy to carry around all day (and has no digital pen!) but will not be replaced anytime soon due to my heavy investment in ios apps. So the GNII seems the perfect "all day" device for me - that decision is made - PROBABLY. (I have no doubt the GNII is the best there is for me, but the answers to the following questions MAY mean its not ideal for me right now)
I have searched around a lot over the past month or so (here and elsewhere) but I either can't find, or don't understand, the answer to, probably, a simple question:
From what I understand, the internal storage on the GNII in the UK seems unlikely to exceed 16GB on contract in the UK anytime soon (might go to 32GB but 64 seems far, far away) and the SD card is awesome - I will get a 64GB card immediately. So I'll have approx a tasty 80GB of storage overall (yes I know a bit is lost to file structure etc but near enough) BUT - I'm a App addict (part of the reason I've been tied to apple for so long) and from what I understand the actual Apps on the GNII are installed on the internal (16GB) storage - I'd fill this in a few days I'm sure (my 64GB iPad is full - 32GB Music - rest is apps - most used regularly)
QUESTION: WITHOUT ROOTING (this scares me at the moment - never even jail broke iPhone) how easy is it to get your apps to install onto the SD? - I understand for some other phones (SGIII) there are apps/hacks which allow this but, due to the file structure of the GNII, some/all don't work (I may be wrong - please don't lynch me - noob!)
If its not possible without serious OS trickery my purchase will have to wait until I can get my hands on at least a 32GB one, preferably 64GB, but if its easy (and safe) ill be getting the 16Gb one ASAP - as I'm sure it will be significantly cheaper than the others.
One day I'll root - I tend to keep my phones for 2-4 years and like to fiddle (part of the reason dated ios bores me), but ATM I just want it to work (and update)
Oh that reminds me - I read somewhere that IF apps are mounted on the SD then google play doesn't recognise them for auto updates - is this true? - read so much, don't know which to believe!
Just so you can gauge your responses - I am not computer illiterate (father is a professional programmer - a little rubbed off), I prefer to tinker with Linux rather than windows but windows is on main PC, and I used to be very competent at hacking around the old widows mobile OS (utter junk system but easy to modify) - I am, however, utterly Android illiterate - AT THE MOMENT!
Thanks for you time - Ben
Noone is gonna read so much. Ask one by one is a better option...
Sent from my GT-N7100
Sorry for the long post but I want an answer to these specific questions:
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock?
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead?
How?
Will they work ok?
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting?
EmergencyMedic said:
Sorry for the long post but I want an answer to these specific questions:
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock?
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead?
How?
Will they work ok?
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock? YES
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead? It seems that External Storage is merged in Internal Storage So It will not be possible yet on Stock Roms. Maybe As soon as new development comes out we will c much more. Most of the Developers waiting for Samsung to release Source Code...
How? ^^^
Will they work ok?Previously on my Note 1 it works OK So I hope it will work on Note 2 also....
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting? I don't think so..Root is Required.
And Rooting is very easy. Or if you are afraid of doing rooting just flash a rooted JB rom using PCOdin or MobileOdin and you are good to go.
EmergencyMedic said:
Sorry for the long post but I want an answer to these specific questions:
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock?
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead?
How?
Will they work ok?
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android does a a great job in managing apps, so if you think u will outrun the space, I dis agree, as bigger apps get installed on external storage, (external SD) to save the space, and Without rooting there is option if you go to setting> application> move to SD, so You can install as many apps as you like.... >>>>> My advice come to the brighter side!! U will NOT regret!!
Thanks guys for your quick responses - but (forgive me if I'm being thick) they both seem to be saying opposite things to each other, one seems to be saying stock won't currently install apps on external SD without re-flashing or rooting, and the other saying, effectively, that they are installed on external SD kinda automatically, or can be moved with stock software. Obviously the latter, at the moment, would be preferential for me.
I AM definitely coming to android mainly because android has finally proved to be a stable (took me a little while to believe this thanks to brainwashing) and more advanced OS and it will be a GNII because ever since using iOS I've missed a stylus and big screen.......it's just WHEN, as when I come I will be staying and I need to be as sure as I can that my hardware suits MY needs - even if I have to wait (as I said in long 1st post - I've stayed with 3GS because I felt apple did not provide a significant hardware boost - I can wait a little longer lol)
Sorry for the persistence but I just need a uniformed, definite, answer
Thanks again for the prompt replies - Ben
dryspuri said:
Android does a a great job in managing apps, so if you think u will outrun the space, I dis agree, as bigger apps get installed on external storage, (external SD) to save the space, and Without rooting there is option if you go to setting> application> move to SD, so You can install as many apps as you like.... >>>>> My advice come to the brighter side!! U will NOT regret!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is just wrong!
Firstly, unlike the Note 1, where the internal storage was split to give separate partions for apps and 'external' data, in the Note 2 you have a single unified partition for both.
This means that the Note 2 doesn't have the "Move to SD" option, because all this did on the Note 1 was move the app from the app partition to the internal sdcard, and this isn't helpful on the Note 2 since it would essentially just be moving the app around within the same partition.
Neither the Note 1, not the Note 2 supports apps directly on the actual external SD card, though there are several ways and means to get around this if your device is rooted.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Thank you Dave - that was the general impression I was getting from the (lengthy) research I have been doing and, to me, is important - most of my storage (on ios) is the physical app programs, not the save file data from them and I'm sure this will be the same on android (for me). Does seem a bit daft that this is the case (16GB really isn't much these days) but there must be a reason (slower access probably).
The main reason I don't want to root at the moment is that I need to get used to android (so that I know when I've broken it and, actually, if I'm happy with it - stock) and I don't want to invalidate my warranty. I know rooting is the way to go eventually - just not yet.
Guess I'll wait for bigger internal storage (rumoured to be 15th oct in UK) and keep an eye on the Play store to see if an app comes out to enable external SD app installation - when either occurs I'm coming to android ;0)
Thanks again
EmergencyMedic said:
The main reason I don't want to root at the moment is that I need to get used to android (so that I know when I've broken it and, actually, if I'm happy with it - stock) and I don't want to invalidate my warranty. I know rooting is the way to go eventually - just not yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind that rooting is not necessarily a process that easily "breaks" your device. Once a stable method of root is developed, it's not long before a quick one-click program is developed that does the work for you!
I'm not sure how iPhone jailbreaking works, but it sounds more intensive than just gaining root on an Android device. (Flashing ROMs/basebands on the other hand, is intensive work that can easily render your phone useless if done wrong. )
Thanks, yep iPhone jaibreaking is an utter nightmare (that's why I never did it) and messes up your syncing with iTunes - and that IS one of the main reasons for coming to android - I am aware that rooting is an easy process - it doesn't actually scare me that much BUT if it voids the warranty I might be a bit hesitant - I will do it Eventually but would rather not HAVE to do it just to make full use of the storage - I'd also like to keep over the air updates, for example, especially with the rapid progression of Android OS over the past few years.
It's killing me because for the first time in may years I'm actually excited about a new phone and a new (to me) OS - T-Mobile here is already listing the LTE for sale - that excites me too lol. BUT, as I keep my phones until another is leaps and bounds better, I'd rather wait a short while and get the most useful I can afford - a 16GB with full access to storage on the SD would be that phone but if its going to be some time before that is possible I might as well wait and get the bigger one (in 2 years when the contracts up apps will be even bigger and my music library will be pushing 50+ GB) I believe buying out of contracts early is a waste of money and I can't afford a sim free phone (read my wife won't let me spend £500+ on a phone).
One thing is for sure - I won't be getting another iPhone anytime soon
I have done a general search on Google and found several articles relating to this subject, but when I searched XDA I didn't find anything conclusive or useful or even informative. The Samsung Galaxy S4 was supposed to be at least a 16GB phone. To me, that means 16GB of usable space to install apps. I knew there would be some bloatware, but when I got my SGS4, I was annoyed to see that the device memory total space was only 9.72 GB, and the bloatware was installed in that space! That left me with only a measly 8GB to install my apps. So where did the other 6.28 GB go? From what I read, it was used by the "system" and hidden "Samsung recovery partitions".
Well, I do not care about recovery partitions. I would rather trust Titanium Backup and my Nandroid backups and have more usable space than have a recovery partition I can't access. I am stingy with my storage, which is at a premium on mobile devices. I like to have control over every megabyte and I don't like the manufacturer deciding how my space is used. I already got an SD card for it, but I still want that missing space back.
So here is my question; how does one re-partition or re-size the partitions of the internal memory of the Samsung Galaxy S4? I know that linux has some amazing partition editors like gparted that can re-size partitions without destroying them, and Android is based on linux, so is there anything like an "aparted"?
I think in the system partition aside from the actual OS there's an odd 2-3 gigs of temp space to be utilizing during updates via Kiev etc. Since the size of TW roms are so big it makes sense in some weird way.
However anything I've read regarding repartioning is supposed to be pretty risky procedure. A lot of us that have gone to the Google Edition rom are also stuck with the original partitions even though GE rom nearly a gig smaller than TW rom. So especially wasted space for us.
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lazaro17 said:
I think in the system partition aside from the actual OS there's an odd 2-3 gigs of temp space to be utilizing during updates via Kiev etc. Since the size of TW roms are so big it makes sense in some weird way.
However anything I've read regarding repartioning is supposed to be pretty risky procedure. A lot of us that have gone to the Google Edition rom are also stuck with the original partitions even though GE rom nearly a gig smaller than TW rom. So especially wasted space for us.
Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, that's exactly what I am talking about. I don't plan to ever update my stock rom via Kiev, assuming I ever update it at all, since I flashed a modified stock kernel to get root. Where did you read about repartitioning being risky? I couldn't even find that much. Is it equally risky for all devices, or do the more modern devices have more options? I also flashed the Google Edition rom hoping to get the space back, but nope! It really sucks that a non-touchwiz, non-samsung rom would still allow a wasted partition.
Zaron DarkStar said:
See, that's exactly what I am talking about. I don't plan to ever update my stock rom via Kiev, assuming I ever update it at all, since I flashed a modified stock kernel to get root. Where did you read about repartitioning being risky? I couldn't even find that much. Is it equally risky for all devices, or do the more modern devices have more options? I also flashed the Google Edition rom hoping to get the space back, but nope! It really sucks that a non-touchwiz, non-samsung rom would still allow a wasted partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In order to partition that internal memory you have to wipe it. And that means everything. System, recovery, download mode, boot loader, everything.
The connection with Odin or adb at this point would be totally housed in RAM. It would need to maintain that connection in order to complete the task of adding the new partition, adding the download mode back, adding recovery, and finally the ROM itself.
If the phone lost its connection during that process or lost power or the update process got pushed out of ram for any reason the phone would be hard bricked as there would be no way to reestablish communication with it to restart the process. You couldn't power it on or boot it to anything. It would be a $600 paper weight.
Meanwhile the alternative option is to just go buy an $8 external 16gb SD card or a $20 external 32gb SD card. That carries no risk whatsoever and expands your phone's storage well beyond the original 9gb of usable space you started with.
Sent from your phone. You should be careful where you leave that thing.
Skipjacks said:
In order to partition that internal memory you have to wipe it. And that means everything. System, recovery, download mode, boot loader, everything.
The connection with Odin or adb at this point would be totally housed in RAM. It would need to maintain that connection in order to complete the task of adding the new partition, adding the download mode back, adding recovery, and finally the ROM itself.
If the phone lost its connection during that process or lost power or the update process got pushed out of ram for any reason the phone would be hard bricked as there would be no way to reestablish communication with it to restart the process. You couldn't power it on or boot it to anything. It would be a $600 paper weight.
Meanwhile the alternative option is to just go buy an $8 external 16gb SD card or a $20 external 32gb SD card. That carries no risk whatsoever and expands your phone's storage well beyond the original 9gb of usable space you started with.
Sent from your phone. You should be careful where you leave that thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! And yes I also hit the thanks button . I had no idea that partitioning the internal memory was THAT risky. I am surprised nobody has come up with a better way, like how you would boot from a CD to partition your computer. Maybe a way to boot from external SD or something? It also makes me curious; if the manufacturer started with blank internal memory, how did they write the initial recovery and ROM to it in the first place? What are they able to do that we can't do?
Zaron DarkStar said:
Thanks! And yes I also hit the thanks button . I had no idea that partitioning the internal memory was THAT risky. I am surprised nobody has come up with a better way, like how you would boot from a CD to partition your computer. Maybe a way to boot from external SD or something? It also makes me curious; if the manufacturer started with blank internal memory, how did they write the initial recovery and ROM to it in the first place? What are they able to do that we can't do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your computer has a bios that exists on a saparate chip from everything else. The bios is like a pre-boot that waits for you to hit the power button, then it looks for a hard drive with an OS to get going the rest of the way. If it doesn't find a hard drive it will look to a CD ROM drive that will take the next step.
The operating sysem resides on your hard drive. So you can wipe your hard drive and the bios will at least let the computer physically turn on.
On your cell phone all that stuff resides on the same internal memory. So if you wipe it clean, it doesn't even have something like a bios that can look for a secondary boot option on an SD Card.
Samsung probably programs the memory chips on a separate machine before they even put them on the mother board. Think of an old 8 bit Nintendo. Super Mario Bros. exists entirely on the game cartridge. It's pre programed to hold the game. You then take that game cartridge (which is essentially just a memory chip on a circuit board inside the plastic case) and insert it into the Nintendo in order to boot up the game. Without the game inserted the power button just blinks and the Nintendo doesn't know what to do. Same thing with your phone. Samsung programs the memory chip somewhere else, then puts the fully prgrammed chip onto the mother board and it boots up. (This is a VERY generic example. There are about 500 things that are different about how these two sysems boot. I am well aware of this. I jus used it as an example to help clarify the concept.)
Skipjacks said:
On your cell phone all that stuff resides on the same internal memory. So if you wipe it clean, it doesn't even have something like a bios that can look for a secondary boot option on an SD Card.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
Skipjacks said:
Samsung probably programs the memory chips on a separate machine before they even put them on the mother board.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you are saying is that the process Samsung probably used can't be used after the chip has been placed in the phone without extreme risk? Got it.
Zaron DarkStar said:
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
So what you are saying is that the process Samsung probably used can't be used after the chip has been placed in the phone without extreme risk? Got it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You probably need to unsolder the chip from the board and use a chip programmer to write everything back to the chip.
macaumen said:
You probably need to unsolder the chip from the board and use a chip programmer to write everything back to the chip.
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I don't think I'll be attempting something like that. That would make me even more nervous than wiping the internal memory. I'm a GTAW welder, and I still don't think I would have steady enough hands to go messing with the physical chips inside my phone.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda app-developers app
One chip?
Anyway my other question still remains. Android software/hardware is all designed to run off of one internal chip that holds everything? Even on tablets? And nobody has attempted to break this mold?
You can actually adjust the partition details through what is called a pit file (partition information table)
There is a thread where someone was able to create the pit files flashable through Odin. While they are flashable, I have tried everything on my s3 to get it to work. I think there is some bootloader code which ignores unsigned or not genuine pit files. There is just something preventing them from taking effect even though it says it flashed successfully.
You should easily be able to take some blocks from system partition and add them to data without and risks.
Btw it's impossible to hard brick this and the s3. You would just need a jtag device to rewrite the bootloader back to the device. Some people have said that the USB jigs you see on eBay work. And for 5 bucks what the heck lol.
But generally speaking, playing with pit files and partitions can get costly.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
I'm still very interested in this. I intend to only use the Google Play ROM's, which are 500MB, rather than 2GB
Samsung said that the S4's system only uses 1GB more than the S3, yet consumes 2GB more in total :/
DON'T TRY THIS. OTHERWISE IT'LL BRICK YOUR DEVICE
There's a solution for S4 i9500, but apparently it was officially released by samsung. I don't believe samsung or t-mobile will do the same, but I hope so. Or if anything could be done from this to be adapted to m919 would be great.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2429309
Zaron DarkStar said:
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
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I strongly suspect this goes to how ARM Systems-on-a-Chip work. These devices don't expect to encounter any kind of hardware intermediary between the processor and the chips. That's what the drivers are for. These devices are designed for simple bootstrapping, and the best way to do that is to connect the CPU to a single internal store of flash memory. Also, no device manufacturer expects to need to repartition their internal flashes within the device's working life. The partition sizes were chosen very carefully so it isn't necessary. They trade in some leeway space to be able to "set it and forget it." In the end, they don't expect anyone (including themselves) to tinker with it after it's been all set up. Normal users won't be in a position to encounter the recovery system, and even skilled amateurs trying to fix something mildly serious would find the stock recovery system sufficient. If that doesn't work, it's probably going back to the manufacturer.
Still a bad design.
WhosAsking said:
Also, no device manufacturer expects to need to repartition their internal flashes within the device's working life.
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So when they advertise a device as having a certain amount of storage, yet the actual user controlled usable storage space is almost half that, they don't think people are going to have a problem with that and will want to get that storage space back, through re-partitioning if necessary?
WhosAsking said:
The partition sizes were chosen very carefully so it isn't necessary.
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The partition sizes weren't chosen by ME, the consumer, owner, and end-user of the device, so it is quite necessary I have control over the storage I paid for.
WhosAsking said:
They trade in some leeway space to be able to "set it and forget it."
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You mean they trade so of MY hardware's capability for the current/future needs of whatever services they might decide to implement, even if I will never use said services.
WhosAsking said:
In the end, they don't expect anyone (including themselves) to tinker with it after it's been all set up.
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I tinker with all my electronics to suit my needs. I change the partition structure of my computer occasionally when my storage allocation needs change enough that it becomes necessary.
WhosAsking said:
Normal users won't be in a position to encounter the recovery system, and even skilled amateurs trying to fix something mildly serious would find the stock recovery system sufficient.
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This isn't about trying to fix a problem. This is about being able to control and use ALL of the storage I expected to have on a device I paid for.
It just sounds like you are making excuses for Samsung. Please don't. It is bad enough that we have to deal with bloatware, but for a manufacturer to reduce a device's functionality, knowing that it is risky/difficult to reverse, for the sake of their proprietary services that the user may not want is just unacceptable.
If I wanted a device where the manufacturer makes the decisions for me the I would buy an Apple. I choose Android for its openness and customizability, so I get annoyed when I see manufacturers deliberately reduce a device's customizability to make way for their proprietary services. I think manufacturers should respect the spirit of the platform they are making devices for, otherwise they are making devices for the wrong platform. More specifically, I think Samsung should respect the spirit of Android, and stop trying to shove their proprietary bloatware down our throats.
Zaron, let me put it another way. The sizes you hear advertised on TV and ads and so on are much like hard drive sizes and the "up to" internet speeds you also see; you're not expected to actually get every last bit that's advertised. The only way you'll fix that is to change advertising laws; good luck trying to get something like that through a legislature.
There's also the fact that those of us here do not represent the typical user of these phones. The average person wants to be able to just get their apps done and be done with it. Quite simply, you can't please everyone, so it's better to annoy a small number of diehard geeks than a larger number of less-technically-literate buyers. As for the "spirit of Android," I don't see any such thing. Android is what manufacturers make of it (like with Amazon). We're talking companies here; not bleeding hearts. For Samsung, Android just happens to be the non-Apple system best at hand. It's not like they're betting the farm on it, either; they're developing Tizen, too, which will be going into their Gear 2 line of smartwatches.
WhosAsking said:
Zaron, let me put it another way.
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Ok let's break this down since it sounds like once again you are making excuses.
WhosAsking said:
The sizes you hear advertised on TV and ads and so on are much like hard drive sizes and the "up to" internet speeds you also see; you're not expected to actually get every last bit that's advertised.
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Click to collapse
I have gotten nearly ALL of the storage space I paid for on EVERY hard drive I have ever bought. There is a miniscule loss for the formatting overhead and partition table, and maybe a couple hundred megabytes for the Windows recovery partition if I CHOOSE to have one. This is quite minor compared to the 500GB - 3TB of space my drives have. On the GS4, I got nearly half, HALF of the usable storage I thought I was buying. There is a huge difference between minor overhead cost and HALF. Also, most of the time I get exactly the amount of bandwidth I pay for as well, for both my home internet and mobile data. It is rare I get any slowdown. So don't give me this nonsense about not expecting to get what is advertised.
WhosAsking said:
The only way you'll fix that is to change advertising laws; good luck trying to get something like that through a legislature.
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I don't need to change any laws to vote with my wallet, which is the only thing Samsung should be concerned with: how customers vote with their money.
WhosAsking said:
There's also the fact that those of us here do not represent the typical user of these phones. The average person wants to be able to just get their apps done and be done with it.
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Really? Because everyone I know who has an Android got one for the ability to customize/tinker with it. But even assuming there is a larger user base I haven't seen that doesn't care as much about customizing, what if said "average people" want to install many apps on their phone? Maybe they want to try out one of the many relatively large Android games on the market. Even an "average" user of a mobile device can do simple math. If they install a few games that are a couple GB each and then run out of space, and then add up the total space they used and compare it to how much their device should have, they would notice they got cheated real quick. All they have to do is go into the app manager in the settings and look at the amount of space used/free to see they don't have as much space as they thought.
WhosAsking said:
Quite simply, you can't please everyone, so it's better to annoy a small number of diehard geeks than a larger number of less-technically-literate buyers.
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I do agree that it is difficult to please everyone. However, who exactly are they pleasing by cutting the usable storage space in half? Answer: nobody but themselves, in order to exert control over their customers. That is all. I have not heard a single person say, "I am so happy with all of Samsung's built-in services, and I don't mind at all that I have only half the space listed on the box!"
WhosAsking said:
As for the "spirit of Android," I don't see any such thing.
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When I say spirit of Android, what I mean is the desire to make a useful device that puts the power of customization in the hands of the user. I mean a device that is the opposite of an Apple device. I mean a device that can be used independently of its creator company. I mean the ability to change the ROM, the launcher, the dialer, the SMS app, and allowing pretty much every other part of the device's software to be modular and customizable. I mean the ability to sideload apps, install other market apps, and not be tied down to one marketplace. I mean the ability to have a device that doesn't make you feel beholden to any entity. That is the spirit of Android. So when a company makes an Android device with features that deliberately move away from customization and towards proprietary dependence, aka dedicating almost half of the SGS4's internal storage for proprietary services, while advertising it as having the full 16GB, that pisses me off. If Android was a religion, it would be the equivalent of blasphemy. When I am in the market for a new device, a company gets my attention by having a more powerful device with more customization options. Also, nothing makes me switch manufacturers faster than when I feel like they are trying to lock me in to their economy.
Now, if you respond to me in the same manner as your last two posts, full of industry excuses and reasons why we shouldn't criticize our corporate overlords, then I will assume you are just a shill, and I will ignore you. I have better things to do than argue with a shill, so prove to me you aren't one.
You're right. It sucks. You should get the entire cell phone industry (valued at several hundred billion dollars) to change its' marketing systems.
Let me know how that works out for you.
The rest of us don't like it either, but we've moved on because we learned how to interpret the manufacturer's claims into what we can actually except to see. Now stop yelling at everyone on XDA who is just trying to explain it to you. We're not the ones who came up with these shadey marketing practices. And just because we understand the shadey marketing practices doesn't mean we support them.
You are preaching to the chior. We all agree with you.
Skipjacks said:
You're right. It sucks. You should get the entire cell phone industry (valued at several hundred billion dollars) to change its' marketing systems.
Let me know how that works out for you.
The rest of us don't like it either, but we've moved on because we learned how to interpret the manufacturer's claims into what we can actually except to see. Now stop yelling at everyone on XDA who is just trying to explain it to you. We're not the ones who came up with these shadey marketing practices. And just because we understand the shadey marketing practices doesn't mean we support them.
You are preaching to the chior. We all agree with you.
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You were helpful to me before, why do you sound so angry now? I wasn't yelling at "everyone". I was disagreeing with one person about the premise that no matter what we do, we should expect to get screwed in some way every time we buy a phone. I don't accept that. I don't even have a problem with people who do accept it, but I do have a problem when people explain it to me, and then sound like they are trying to get me to accept getting screwed. This thread started with me asking if there was a way to easily re-partition the internal memory of the SGS4, and when the answer was basically "no", the purpose of this thread was pretty much served. However, it went on to become a discussion about why things are the way they are, which inevitably led to the business practices of Samsung, at which point it started to feel like I was being told to just accept the situation, which got me riled up. Big corporations wouldn't be big without their customers, so I intend to stay a customer who cares. I won't give in to apathy or complacency, and I won't accept corporate control, even if I can't directly do anything about it. I appreciate the explanations, and I am sorry offended anyone.