Develop Bugs

[Q] Why is it locked?

So I have a couple general questions I wanted to get your guys take on.
Why does Verizon choose to have there phones locked down? The HTC One in particular but generally as well. Is it a method of preserving/increasing profit? Perceived threat to their network? Something else?
A follow up question which depends on how you feel about the first question. Are Verizon's reasons for locking down phones justified? Do you feel they have a right to do this? If you were a strictly moral person, do you have any dilemmas about this?
PS As a side note, I love having my phones unlocked with custom roms, and I am looking forward to getting my sonic S-Off back.

beardedYoga said:
So I have a couple general questions I wanted to get your guys take on.
Why does Verizon choose to have there phones locked down? The HTC One in particular but generally as well. Is it a method of preserving/increasing profit? Perceived threat to their network? Something else?
A follow up question which depends on how you feel about the first question. Are Verizon's reasons for locking down phones justified? Do you feel they have a right to do this? If you were a strictly moral person, do you have any dilemmas about this?
PS As a side note, I love having my phones unlocked with custom roms, and I am looking forward to getting my sonic S-Off back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People screwing up their phones by crack flashing, and returning them to verizon for warranty when bricked.
Control of tethering.

Yeah, they say it's for the reasons above.
But given that, to begin with, the rooting community is a tiny slice of all mobile phone users, and then Verizon users are an even smaller portion of that. So I don't see why they even care. I highly doubt that even if ever single Verizon customer who does rooting messed up their expensive device it would cost Verizon more than .01% of their revenue, if even that.

It's all about quality control. Even if it is the fact that the vast minority root their phones, it's the minority of users who generate the majority of complaints (and that rule extends FAR beyond cell phone rooting, or cell phones in general). It takes 10 good comments to make up for one bad comment these days, and there just aren't enough good comments to go around.
How likely is it, if your unrooted phone has no physical damage that you'll suddenly find that it isn't booting up? How likely is it that, even if you don't want to do it, factory resetting your unrooted phone will fix whatever problem you're having?
Big Red's reputation, their entire brand, is built on reliability. NOT freedom.

beardedYoga said:
So I have a couple general questions I wanted to get your guys take on.
Why does Verizon choose to have there phones locked down? The HTC One in particular but generally as well. Is it a method of preserving/increasing profit? Perceived threat to their network? Something else?
A follow up question which depends on how you feel about the first question. Are Verizon's reasons for locking down phones justified? Do you feel they have a right to do this? If you were a strictly moral person, do you have any dilemmas about this?
PS As a side note, I love having my phones unlocked with custom roms, and I am looking forward to getting my sonic S-Off back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey guys feel free to elaborate as much as possible. I'm writing a term paper on unlocking bootloaders/s-off, legalities on our part and Verizon, security risk for us/Carrier, risks taken by us/Verizon, etc.. It's for a Information Security Course. I'll be creating a thread at some point but this is a good start for some sources!

Another point would be that Verizon tries to cater to business/enterprise customers so allowing bootloader unlocking could pose a giant security flaw on devices that have classified data and are meant to be secure
Sent from my One using xda app-developers app

I think it's far less about tethering for free. They fixed that with getting rid of unlimited data. They saw they can make more money on teired data plans with coverages. Plus I am amazed at how many people on here has given up on their unlimited data plans just to get a subsidized phone.
Locked down phones is for more like people who roots and doesn't know what they are doing so they brick their phones and Verizon takes a hit having to replace it under warranty. Plus the security reasons companies are looking for. They don't want a phone that could be hacked in to giving away possible secret info. Last but not least is to keep people from taking their phones and flashing it to another carrier as we seen a few people has done on here and other forums. It's money they are not receiving and they want to put a stop to it.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 4

I think they do it for tethering. Although you can use foxfi, root tethering is not stoppable unless verizon uses packet sniffing but even so, unlimited data is unlimited data. They also do it for security reasons as unlocking a corporate phone can be bad.

I will admit, I skimmed all posts and see that most everyone has bought into what they want us to believe.
If it is to prevent unwanted warranty claims, then why would they not allow us to willingly void our warranty via HTCdev when we click the box that says so?
Rather then resort to undocumented or traceable ways of doing so in which case they are stuck with more returns for soft bricks, etc,..and are stuck accepting them because they chose to not take the easy way and let us void our warranty to begin with.
I just think all that warranty replacement crap is a bunch of nonsense and can't be their main incentive.
If it is, then they have their heads buried deeper then I thought and need to realize what I just stated above...

A really good friend of mine has been a tech with sprint for nearly a decade. From what he has told me, about 27 of 100 phones they can't fix are due to installing non official software. While that's not the highest percentage with damage as the worst, it still is very costly for them to replace. Most of the guys he works with can tell if a phone has been "tampered" with. Even with such things as triangle away with the Samsung lines, they still can find out. Having a locked boot loader on this phone is just one way of attempting to slow the numbers.
As he would put it, most people who do try flashing and other modification methods have very little experience with the phones and their inner workings. A lot of these people end up bricking their phones and try turning them in for insurance claims or warranty which he deals with. He actually saved me some coin by getting me a screen for one of my s2's from a completely fried emmc that he says someone tried a bad flash with.
But yeah, keeping the people like that out of the phones is one of the major reasons as it can become costly to them... I call bs though, considering the amount of profit they actually make on each one of our accounts.
Sent from my One in Blue!

You are exactly right.
To be honest, there isn't much of a business case for a carrier, when serving as the reseller of a phone, to offer the freedom of an unlocked boot loader. The savvy of the general populace hasn't yet reached the point where the downside is offset by a marketable upside. Hell, most folks still **** around happily with iPhones which lack any freedom whatsoever.
TidusWulf said:
It's all about quality control. Even if it is the fact that the vast minority root their phones, it's the minority of users who generate the majority of complaints (and that rule extends FAR beyond cell phone rooting, or cell phones in general). It takes 10 good comments to make up for one bad comment these days, and there just aren't enough good comments to go around.
How likely is it, if your unrooted phone has no physical damage that you'll suddenly find that it isn't booting up? How likely is it that, even if you don't want to do it, factory resetting your unrooted phone will fix whatever problem you're having?
Big Red's reputation, their entire brand, is built on reliability. NOT freedom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

We can speculate all we want here. Verizon says they lock phones because it's better for the network.
http://bgr.com/2012/03/02/verizon-explains-locked-bootloader-stance-in-letter-to-fcc/
Whether or not anyone chooses to believe that is a matter of opinion, but this is pretty much as close to an answer from Verizon that we'll ever get.
Sent from my HTC One.

Very enlightening.
To comment on wanting the phones to be secure for corporate security... wouldn't the amazing track record of dev's who contribute here and other places sort of fly right in the face of that.
It seems that every single device that gains enough users has some kind of workaround or vulnerability to allow it to be unlocked. If the corporate world was worried about it, all they are doing is showing just how unable to lock it down the manufactures and carriers are.

Blah, blah, blah.... the network. that is just their excuse. They used it with the FTC to get by with rate limiting the LTE network. Some lame a$$ excuse about the CDMA legacy junk. Don't get me wrong I am sure that the old CDMA stuff may make the network less predictable, but not less stable. It is all about money, and VZW is the 800 pound gorilla that get to control what we have to deal with. Thank goodness we have talented and dedicated developers that almost always get around the blockades these fools put in place.

+1
Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk now Free

From what I was told over at elevate, the biggest problem they don't want to expierence again is our phones not being able to dial to the correct 911 dispatch. There apparently was an incident where a rooting user had a modified dialer apk that didn't allow him dial to the correct dispatch. In an emergency for Verizon that is worse case scenario. Then there's a lawsuit that might be filed to both HTC and Verizon.

CNexus said:
Yeah, they say it's for the reasons above.
But given that, to begin with, the rooting community is a tiny slice of all mobile phone users, and then Verizon users are an even smaller portion of that. So I don't see why they even care. I highly doubt that even if ever single Verizon customer who does rooting messed up their expensive device it would cost Verizon more than .01% of their revenue, if even that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta disagree. When you see people in this forum bragging about getting seven replacements, it does add up.
And it really is a PITA to figure out if it was user error or something wrong with the phone. It's all about risk mgmt
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 4

Did someone find a way to install a Custom ROM for the Fire Phone?

I stumbled across this website with instructions for installing a custom ROM on the Fire Phone. Can anyone confirm this? I'm only know enough to follow instructions.
I'm too new to post a link. Just Google:
custom ROM fire phone
You're looking for the nsme rom-lollipop.

It may be a scam. It asks you to complete offers to download the files. But, people in the article comments say it worked.

It's just ads / survey scam behind shortened links, as you said. The people in the comment section aren't "real", also just fake accounts used to make it look more legit.
Just remember the site layout and graphics, because the people behind this have dozens of domains registered, that lead to sites that look just like the one you found.

that's too bad. i just find it hard to believe we have a root method and no custom recovery/bootstrap. I remember when palm went under and had firesales on their phones and tablets. dev's crack it open and loaded android on them. this is a decent spec device and with all the cameras you'd think someone would eventually get some project tango features integrated.

PIYIRIO said:
i just find it hard to believe we have a root method and no custom recovery/bootstrap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at it from Amazons perspective: they want their devices to be (almost) closed plattforms. Providing a method of unlocking the bootloader for all their devices is not in their interest. (I'm not going to start discussing the HDX bootloader case ^^)
Yes, the device is decent, but there are so many alternatives. So as of now I highly doubt that anyone will be looking for an exploit or any possibility to unlock the bootloader.

i'm not worried about the locked bootloader. it doesn't have to be unlocked for custom roms, plenty of devices with locked bootloaders have custom roms. we have root so we should be able to have a bootstrap method. we're just lacking in dev support. i can't blame them at all, i'm just saying for about $100 device (if your already renewing prime) this is a pretty high spec device and has hella potential. wishing it had the support of the old palm's.

I'm also confused - Fire Phone is brutal device for current price. I was expecting much broader adoption after drastic price drop.
Sent from my SD4930UR using XDA Forums

you will see a drastic increase in adoption if the bootloader has been unlocked

veti said:
you will see a drastic increase in adoption if the bootloader has been unlocked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
of course. but if no one adopts it, no one cracks the bootloader: its a catch-22. but again, everyone worries about the bootloader but that's not everything. with proper root we can have a bootstrap and custom roms which would be a million percent improvement... for example: every verizon galaxy since the s4...
this is my first fire device and thought "for the price, what the hell". turns out i absolutely hate fireos, haven't used the device at all until the latest update with root, google play, and a proper launcher.

PIYIRIO said:
of course. but if no one adopts it, no one cracks the bootloader: its a catch-22. but again, everyone worries about the bootloader but that's not everything. with proper root we can have a bootstrap and custom roms which would be a million percent improvement... for example: every verizon galaxy since the s4...
this is my first fire device and thought "for the price, what the hell". turns out i absolutely hate fireos, haven't used the device at all until the latest update with root, google play, and a proper launcher.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i got it for 10 euros with a year of amazon prime, so it was a no brainer.

you stole it. i paid about 10 times that after the year of prime.

PIYIRIO said:
you stole it. i paid about 10 times that after the year of prime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huge pricing error in germany. many people got it for that price.

10 euros is an amazing deal. Really the price tag on this phone is amazing even at the non German price. So much so that I hope I get a chance to buy another one before they liquidate completely. Did some benchmarks and got performance better than the Galaxy s5 (as listed using vellamo) except for the single core test.
Anyway it seems to me that developers would adopt the phone, but it was also such a great flop that it might just continue to be neglected. I'm okay with that, but I would really like to see some development to replace some of the less functional bits of the fire os

It's too hard to get a custom ROM for Amazon fire phone.
1. The bootloader has been locked and no way to unlock.
2. We haven't found an available recovery for it.
3. We don't have the drivers of the phone.
4. Some software by amazon are used for the adaptation of the device, but we cannot make sure we can still use them in the new ROM. Such as the fix of the position of touch.

I agree, that's a bummer to not have dev support. No one wants to spend time developing for Fire OS and limit themselves to a small market niche when they can develop native Android apps and target 60%+ of the smartphone world. I bet so many cool things can be done with 5 front facing cameras, given development hours and diverse creativity input. Such a waste :/

stascom said:
I agree, that's a bummer to not have dev support. No one wants to spend time developing for Fire OS and limit themselves to a small market niche when they can develop native Android apps and target 60%+ of the smartphone world. I bet so many cool things can be done with 5 front facing cameras, given development hours and diverse creativity input. Such a waste :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think "5 front facing cameras" is a good design.
Actually I disabled it immediately when I got my phone to save power.
It doesn't make sense.

5 front facing cameras
I am wondering if the camera system will ever be able to scan objects for 3D information, and send data to some 3D printer setup. Might be fun.
aegoyu said:
I don't think "5 front facing cameras" is a good design.
Actually I disabled it immediately when I got my phone to save power.
It doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

It seems the 4 cameras in the corners are "ultra-low-powered specialized cameras", so I guess they work just for the sake of the gimmicky Dynamic Perspective.
If it's like that, what a waste of cameras.

The 4 cameras and pseudo-3D was a gimmick, in hindsight it would've been better for amazon to do its own gearVR-like accessory instead given that eye-tracking doesn't come anywhere close to the quality of VR
Besides the VR market its nowhere near the saturation of mobile so amazon could've gotten its foot on the door rather than competing with android in that respect
As for the bootloader situation has anyone considered posting a reward to get more devs to try to unlock it?

There is (or was): http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-phone/help/bootloader-unlock-development-t3022030
And there was a change.org petition for Amazon to unlock the bootloader (I doubt they care): http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-phone/general/petition-posted-to-change-org-to-unlock-t3009342

FRP [Factory Reset Protect] Removal for Samsung Galaxy S7 & Edge (SM-930V & SM-935V)

FRP [Factory Reset Protect] Removal for Samsung Galaxy S7 & Edge (SM-930V & SM-935V)
I have decided to release full FRP Bypass PE1 + Software Root
I hold no responsibility on how this software is used.
This software is malware free. So just follow the instructions and if I helped hit the Thank you!
I only support and assist with this version of my software not other versions that have been decompiled and released elsewhere within this thread.
There are no revisions of version changes this is the final version and works 100% if you can follow simple instructions.
Download

Reserved

xboxexpert said:
The total has now risen to the administration having over 10K of phones locked in her drawer with no way to bypass security lock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see a picture of 10,000 phones in a drawer.
I don't have a solid answer for you on the legality (and in fact I'm sure few here are experts in that regard) although you can probably safely assume the answer is no.

psouza4 said:
I would love to see a picture of 10,000 phones in a drawer.
I don't have a solid answer for you on the legality (and in fact I'm sure few here are experts in that regard) although you can probably safely assume the answer is no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I figured the SGS7's are at least 400 or 500 bucks each or something I haven't paid for a phone nor service is 7 years being employees here. Don't care to research how expensive they are however I know she has over 20 of them at the moment.
#guestimate

xboxexpert said:
I figured the SGS7's are at least 400 or 500 bucks each or something I haven't paid for a phone nor service is 7 years being employees here. Don't care to research how expensive they are however I know she has over 20 of them at the moment.
#guestimate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aw, you meant $10K value not 10K quantity. What a difference a character makes. I would have loved to see the ridiculous stockpile that 10,000 phones in a single drawer would look like

So are you saying you found a method or are going to try to find a method?
Any cobtribution is a good one but I am not familiar with the legality either but dont see it matter unless you are posting saying thieves can use it on a stolen device.
In all honesty, ppl legitamitely forget their passwords and lock themselves out I am sure all the time and at times if you purchase the phone from a third party theres really no way to remove or bypass it without proof of purchase or replacing the device which some might not have because of how it was purchased.

elliwigy said:
So are you saying you found a method or are going to try to find a method?
Any cobtribution is a good one but I am not familiar with the legality either but dont see it matter unless you are posting saying thieves can use it on a stolen device.
In all honesty, ppl legitamitely forget their passwords and lock themselves out I am sure all the time and at times if you purchase the phone from a third party theres really no way to remove or bypass it without proof of purchase or replacing the device which some might not have because of how it was purchased.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have successfully bypassed the FRP Reset Protection no matter how much security is on the phone, passcode, pattern, fingerprint. All are bypassed for a full clean factory reset.
So short answer, yes. Also there is a high likelihood that this method works on ALL variants.

I'm going to say trolly troll troll.
'Tis all.
Sent from my SM-G930V using XDA-Developers mobile app

If what your saying is true do the right thing and contact the manufacturer and carriers with it I'm sure that they would like to know. The fact that you haven't already isn't right.

jayfried said:
If what your saying is true do the right thing and contact the manufacturer and carriers with it I'm sure that they would like to know. The fact that you haven't already isn't right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in full agreement with this statement. However I have no idea where to start. Again this was basically proof of concept until it because a reality. Tested it at least 20 times and every time I've been able to bypass FRP 100%. Even gave it to my director and had him lock it down with fingerprint and google account and 10 minutes later he was speechless.

xboxexpert said:
I am in full agreement with this statement. However I have no idea where to start. Again this was basically proof of concept until it because a reality. Tested it at least 20 times and every time I've been able to bypass FRP 100%. Even gave it to my director and had him lock it down with fingerprint and google account and 10 minutes later he was speechless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pm me the method. I want to try on my phone

I personally would contact MikeChannon (forum admin) at http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=335322 and go from there. I'm all for public disclosure but if you are worried about legal or forum rules I think he'd be more informed.

From the Moderator
The bypass method would not violate any law per se. The only issue that would be in question is if you own the phone or lease it.
Under that specific lease agreement it probably has wording about applying custom software to the phone.
~~~ oka1

ESN lockout is what makes turning over a lost or stolen phone difficult. And yet there is a huge grey-market trade on ebay and other places. I image they are all going overseas to get the appropriate chips switched out for resale. And if they have an operation set up for that, physically removing the flash chip and reprograming it would be a breeze. IMHO the lockout is more of a money generator for samsung so they can charge you to unlock it if you lock yourself out.
Describing the process is no more illegal than rooting. And if you figured it out, someone else will too. Only they might not share in hopes of selling the service or profiting somehow.

BlueLightNight said:
ESN lockout is what makes turning over a lost or stolen phone difficult. And yet there is a huge grey-market trade on ebay and other places. I image they are all going overseas to get the appropriate chips switched out for resale. And if they have an operation set up for that, physically removing the flash chip and reprograming it would be a breeze. IMHO the lockout is more of a money generator for samsung so they can charge you to unlock it if you lock yourself out.
Describing the process is no more illegal than rooting. And if you figured it out, someone else will too. Only they might not share in hopes of selling the service or profiting somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Meaning if I share then I'm opening up a whole new market that will explode as bad as Pokemon Go.....

or meaning someone else will release it anyways in time so whether you release it or not doesnt matter outside of you being "first" lol

xboxexpert said:
Meaning if I share then I'm opening up a whole new market that will explode as bad as Pokemon Go.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it would destroy or prevent a market. Markets only exist for those who know how and can do it. At the moment that is Samsung. You don't share it and Samsung makes a bit more money. Then someone else figures it out and they also don't share.... you start seeing adverts on eBay priced a bit below Samsung for the "get back into your phone!" service (or maybe it's just you trying to make a buck ;P ) If you do release it or someone else figures it out and releases it. Well,... we will still see the adverts on ebay for the techna-challenged but it will be a hell of a lot cheaper because it is a known process thus many people offering thus competition.

rootjunky has had an FRP bypass out for months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChCvMLdyRuw

PiousInquisitor said:
rootjunky has had an FRP bypass out for months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChCvMLdyRuw
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go try it on your Verizon phone with latest security update patch.

xboxexpert said:
Go try it on your Verizon phone with latest security update patch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You try it. My phone is set up and running the way I want it. I'm not going wipe it for a silly reason like proving myself wrong or right. That's your job.
If it works or not isn't the whole point of posting the video. Clearly it's not illegal to expose how to get around FRP. If it were, RootJunky would have been charged and his videos pulled.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

To root or not to root.

It's been a few years since I've had an Android phone. All my past phones I've rooted, for various reasons. Most of them involved custom kernels, themes, and Cyanogenmod. What are some of the best reasons to root, and best reasons to stay stock?
If I root, I'll need to return my phone to Verizon and order one from Google, or wait and hope someone unlocks the bootloader. Either way I'm returning it for the 128GB version.
Thoughts?

The main reason I root my device is for Adaway so I can block ads with the HOSTS file at a global level (no ads in apps, yay!). Heck, I already have the bootloader unlocked, don't care if it breaks Android Pay (don't use it anyways other then to store my rewards cards information) and waiting for cf to work his magic on getting root working on this sexy device.
Down side of rooting is that you don't get the updates that gets pushed out unless you do it yourself (that and no Android Pay if that's something you use like I said above).
In terms of keeping the Verizon version or getting the Google Play version, if it was me, I'd get the Google Play version (which is what I did, second time I've gotten a phone outside of Verizon so they can't control my device). Although I'm sure after enough time someone could probably crack the bootloader but you never know.

I root for many reasons. Prominent among them is the ability to change the colors of the UI. White backgrounds are hard on my eyes and so over the years I have used CMTE, Layers, TBO, and now Substratum to change to darker backgrounds. Some apps have a dark mode you can use without root, but many do not. Root opens up a whole new dimension of customizations not only in appearance but also in performance.

scsa20 said:
In terms of keeping the Verizon version or getting the Google Play version, if it was me, I'd get the Google Play version (which is what I did, second time I've gotten a phone outside of Verizon so they can't control my device). Although I'm sure after enough time someone could probably crack the bootloader but you never know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tmettler5 said:
If I root, I'll need to return my phone to Verizon and order one from Google, or wait and hope someone unlocks the bootloader. Either way I'm returning it for the 128GB version.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must be missing something. Why do smart people like you guys still buy Google phones (Nexus, Pixel) from Verizon?

ringochan said:
I must be missing something. Why do smart people like you guys still buy Google phones (Nexus, Pixel) from Verizon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably because of the discounted 2 year or monthly payment option. Some smart people still have smaller budgets or wives who wouldn't understand laying out $800 - $1000 to replace a phone just because you want to root. Those people hope someone will figure out a way to unlock and root. I've got the money but my wife would go ballistic
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Premium HD app

With all due respect, buying a google phone without rooting and tinkering with it is like going to michelin starred restaurant to pay $100 for a glass of water. Oh, and my reasons are the freedom of customizability and custom kernels, custom kernels can make your phone twice as fast with even better battery life if done right.

ringochan said:
I must be missing something. Why do smart people like you guys still buy Google phones (Nexus, Pixel) from Verizon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't got it through Verizon. I said I got it through the Google Store (thus the outside of Verizon part). Screw getting phones through Verizon. Hate that they forced locked down bootloader's.

herandy said:
With all due respect, buying a google phone without rooting and tikering with it is like going to michelin starred restaurant to pay $100 for a glass of water. Oh, and my reasons are the freedom of customizability and custom kernels, custom kernels can make your phone twice as fast with even better battery life if done right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was true with Nexus phones. The Pixel is being marketed as something else entirely. I think we'll be hard pressed to see any real gains from devs here. Google is putting a lot of work into these phones. I trust the minds at Google this time moreso than the devs on here.

Nitemare3219 said:
That was true with Nexus phones. The Pixel is being marketed as something else entirely. I think we'll be hard pressed to see any real gains from devs here. Google is putting a lot of work into these phones. I trust the minds at Google this time moreso than the devs on here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not impressed with the "minds" at Google.
For me to pay that kind of price, I need, at least 5.75" screen, front stereo speakers, higher degree of water proofing. Also, to echo a famous quote : "White UIs must die!" And those bezels! Ugh!
Google assistant is nearly useless to those of us who prefer not to publicly audibilize our searches. So all I would gain would be a snappier OS and a first rate camera. Too many cons outweigh the pros. I wish Google and the sort of folks that they appear to be targeting all the best. I also hope there is much Dev activity for it.

ringochan said:
I must be missing something. Why do smart people like you guys still buy Google phones (Nexus, Pixel) from Verizon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ease of access, availability, no need for an application for financing, the expectation that someone will crack the bootloader, buying in a no tax state.

wtherrell said:
I'm not impressed with the "minds" at Google.
For me to pay that kind of price, I need, at least 5.75" screen, front stereo speakers, higher degree of water proofing. Also, to echo a famous quote : "White UIs must die!" And those bezels! Ugh!
Google assistant is nearly useless to those of us who prefer not to publicly audibilize our searches. So all I would gain would be a snappier OS and a first rate camera. Too many cons outweigh the pros. I wish Google and the sort of folks that they appear to be targeting all the best. I also hope there is much Dev activity for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-I do wish the screen size was larger considering it has on-screen buttons, and that massive chin... no reason it couldn't have been 5.7" again.
-Stereo speakers would have been nice too. No idea why they couldn't copy the iPhone and HTC 10 considering the speakers are in the same position. Maybe a dev will actually make this happen if the earpiece is capable.
-I actually love the UI.
-Everyone hates the bezel. I think they did it to keep a larger battery in the phone, and to probably make it look like an iPhone to the masses.
-Google Assistant is great. I never really used voice commands much, but I have been forcing myself to use them more. They are incredibly quick, efficient, and convenient. No reason to not use them even in public dude. Who gives a damn what people think about your searches. You're never going to see the same people in public anyway.
The snappy OS and first rate camera are things that Android has absolutely needed in a phone. The Pixels bring the best of ALL the basics. And no phone has really done that with Android before. OEMs get too caught up in adding gimmicks and "features" and end up slowing down the phone, hampering basic usability (i.e. what we use our phones for 90+% of the time).

Nitemare3219 said:
-I do wish the screen size was larger considering it has on-screen buttons, and that massive chin... no reason it couldn't have been 5.7" again.
-Stereo speakers would have been nice too. No idea why they couldn't copy the iPhone and HTC 10 considering the speakers are in the same position. Maybe a dev will actually make this happen if the earpiece is capable.
-I actually love the UI.
-Everyone hates the bezel. I think they did it to keep a larger battery in the phone, and to probably make it look like an iPhone to the masses.
-Google Assistant is great. I never really used voice commands much, but I have been forcing myself to use them more. They are incredibly quick, efficient, and convenient. No reason to not use them even in public dude. Who gives a damn what people think about your searches. You're never going to see the same people in public anyway.
The snappy OS and first rate camera are things that Android has absolutely needed in a phone. The Pixels bring the best of ALL the basics. And no phone has really done that with Android before. OEMs get too caught up in adding gimmicks and "features" and end up slowing down the phone, hampering basic usability (i.e. what we use our phones for 90+% of the time).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do hope they tweak it later to allow typing to the assistant like Allo but I guess then it's not a whole lot different than typing in the search bar anyways.

Nitemare3219 said:
-I do wish the screen size was larger considering it has on-screen buttons, and that massive chin... no reason it couldn't have been 5.7" again.
-Stereo speakers would have been nice too. No idea why they couldn't copy the iPhone and HTC 10 considering the speakers are in the same position. Maybe a dev will actually make this happen if the earpiece is capable.
-I actually love the UI.
-Everyone hates the bezel. I think they did it to keep a larger battery in the phone, and to probably make it look like an iPhone to the masses.
-Google Assistant is great. I never really used voice commands much, but I have been forcing myself to use them more. They are incredibly quick, efficient, and convenient. No reason to not use them even in public dude. Who gives a damn what people think about your searches. You're never going to see the same people in public anyway.
The snappy OS and first rate camera are things that Android has absolutely needed in a phone. The Pixels bring the best of ALL the basics. And no phone has really done that with Android before. OEMs get too caught up in adding gimmicks and "features" and end up slowing down the phone, hampering basic usability (i.e. what we use our phones for 90+% of the time).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good points. I'm glad you trust the uncaring public. I, however, don't. I guess I am just slightly paranoid that way. Also there are many situations where it might disturb other folks to have me gabbing on my phone. Sure, assistant is neat but just not worth it to me. Still, I find myself checking on the availability of the 128gb model as if I am irresistibly drawn to it. My heart wants it but my head is saying no.

There's every reason to root, and only one reason to not root.
Reasons to root:
Kernel modifications to increase battery life. (Sure the Pixel can go 2 days easily on one charge, but why not make it 3?).
Filesystem access. The heart of any computer should at the very least give you filesystem access. It boggles the mind why phones won't give this option when this is a computer that you carry with you every day. Maybe you want to write your own apps, hide personal files somewhere outside of the visible directories like Downloads.
Breaking down barriers carriers put forth to limit you in a walled garden. Whatever it may be. Video codecs for example. Open source media servers that aren't approved on the app stores, I can go on and on.
Only reason to not root:
Android Pay. I absolutely love this ability. I personally think that you SHOULD be able to use this option while rooted. Using SU app, and encryption of your card should be enough to protect your card information. (Don't say it can't because it can.) Rooted apps cannot work unless you give them access via the SU app as added security, and even if they manage to grab your encrypted card information because you allowed some program you've never heard of root access and it steals your encrypted account information, it would take them 1 million years to brute force decrypt it if using a high enough encryption scheme on it. You can just change your virtual account on a whim, and do so ever 6 months, cancelling your old account in case it was ever grabbed making the old one null and void for the hacker if he does eventually get lucky and break it. Your account will never get owned if these practices were followed.
Blatently not allowing you choice to use something like android pay is big brother coddling you like a baby. I'm a grown ass man, and know how to secure my ****. If you don't know how to, then you shouldn't be doing it as your the reason Google puts these sort of restrictions on phones like mine.

MichaelMcC said:
Probably because of the discounted 2 year or monthly payment option. Some smart people still have smaller budgets or wives who wouldn't understand laying out $800 - $1000 to replace a phone just because you want to root. Those people hope someone will figure out a way to unlock and root. I've got the money but my wife would go ballistic
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are actually confusing me more. I checked both Verizon and Google Store's pricings and financing options and saw they are pretty much the same.
Verizon -- $0 Down (for qualified customers) $36.24/mo for 24 months; 0% APR Retail Price: $869.99 -- sim locked maybe?, and locked bootloader.
Google Store -- $869.00 or $36.21 / Month x 24 times, thru Google Store Financing -- sim free, and unlockable bootloader.
scsa20 said:
I didn't got it through Verizon. I said I got it through the Google Store (thus the outside of Verizon part). Screw getting phones through Verizon. Hate that they forced locked down bootloader's.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly!:laugh:
tmettler5 said:
Ease of access, availability, no need for an application for financing, the expectation that someone will crack the bootloader, buying in a no tax state.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...
---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------
nikitis said:
There's every reason to root, and only one reason to not root.
Reasons to root:
Kernel modifications to increase battery life. (Sure the Pixel can go 2 days easily on one charge, but why not make it 3?).
Filesystem access. The heart of any computer should at the very least give you filesystem access. It boggles the mind why phones won't give this option when this is a computer that you carry with you every day. Maybe you want to write your own apps, hide personal files somewhere outside of the visible directories like Downloads.
Breaking down barriers carriers put forth to limit you in a walled garden. Whatever it may be. Video codecs for example. Open source media servers that aren't approved on the app stores, I can go on and on.
Only reason to not root:
Android Pay. I absolutely love this ability. I personally think that you SHOULD be able to use this option while rooted. Using SU app, and encryption of your card should be enough to protect your card information. (Don't say it can't because it can.) Rooted apps cannot work unless you give them access via the SU app as added security, and even if they manage to grab your encrypted card information because you allowed some program you've never heard of root access and it steals your encrypted account information, it would take them 1 million years to brute force decrypt it if using a high enough encryption scheme on it. You can just change your virtual account on a whim, and do so ever 6 months, cancelling your old account in case it was ever grabbed making the old one null and void for the hacker if he does eventually get lucky and break it. Your account will never get owned if these practices were followed.
Blatently not allowing you choice to use something like android pay is big brother coddling you like a baby. I'm a grown ass man, and know how to secure my ****. If you don't know how to, then you shouldn't be doing it as your the reason Google puts these sort of restrictions on phones like mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More reasons to root:
o backup and restore apk and data anytime.
o nandroid backup for ability to test things.
o custom roms for obvious reasons.
o exposed anyone?
o ability to upgrade to new os versions even after phone makers stopped supporting the devices.
o to satisfy the addictive urge to flash every week!
The SafetyNet is a great threat for most of us here. Some apps, including Android Pay, won't run anymore. If more apps start utilizing the system, we won't be able to enjoy our phones and everyone will be migrating to the Appleland:crying:

Verizon 3 & 3XL: Do we even know what we are looking for?

I think we are all aware of the Verizon issue, but my question is: what is the current hurdle we are trying to get over?
Like, forget the answer, what are the questions? The thing that comes to mind is 42 being the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything, but the characters in the guide not knowing what question that answers (analogy done).
So, even if we don't know what to do with the following, do we know 1) The steps, 2) What has worked in the past and what is different this time, and 3) what our current hurdle is.
I ask this because I'm genuinely curious, and because combining our efforts towards a, not specific, but general goal might help. Apologies in advance for being a pleb.

I don't mean to be a jerk about it, but what people think they want is to wax philosophically about phone ownership (which is most ironic while paying off a signed contract that proves the device is not yours). In reality what they want is to get a device that already exists at essentially half the cost of one readily available. In the past, exploits were the only way regardless of cost. Some were found with luck and others with a lot of work by a lot of people. All of what has happened in the past is still happening but by a lot less people with a lot less to gain because of the aforementioned availability of a device that doesn't need to be hacked. Heck, you don't even need a Verizon variant PIxel to be on their network. You just need to play by their rules if you want one for THEIR price. I guess that is my philosophic waxing. Keep in mind, I have ran plenty of hacked devices including Verizon ones including the OG Pixel and Pixel XL. The game changed almost immediately after dePixel was patched, and it became obvious that it was just going to be an exercise in futility to hope for it again. Even if an exploit is found, it might include having never upgraded past a certain version and will ultimately be patched immediately possibly in a way that even a non-upgraded phone might be patched for. Instead of worrying about the cat and mouse game, I'll purchase the right device for the price offered if I think it is worth what I gain from it. Punching in my card number for the BL unlockable P3/PX3 hurt when I did it, but I had the money and it was worth it to me. I can now enjoy using what I have instead of complaining about what I don't.

sliding_billy said:
I don't mean to be a jerk about it, but what people think they want is to wax philosophically about phone ownership (which is most ironic while paying off a signed contract that proves the device is not yours). In reality what they want is to get a device that already exists at essentially half the cost of one readily available. In the past, exploits were the only way regardless of cost. Some were found with luck and others with a lot of work by a lot of people. All of what has happened in the past is still happening but by a lot less people with a lot less to gain because of the aforementioned availability of a device that doesn't need to be hacked. Heck, you don't even need a Verizon variant PIxel to be on their network. You just need to play by their rules if you want one for THEIR price. I guess that is my philosophic waxing. Keep in mind, I have ran plenty of hacked devices including Verizon ones including the OG Pixel and Pixel XL. The game changed almost immediately after dePixel was patched, and it became obvious that it was just going to be an exercise in futility to hope for it again. Even if an exploit is found, it might include having never upgraded past a certain version and will ultimately be patched immediately possibly in a way that even a non-upgraded phone might be patched for. Instead of worrying about the cat and mouse game, I'll purchase the right device for the price offered if I think it is worth what I gain from it. Punching in my card number for the BL unlockable P3/PX3 hurt when I did it, but I had the money and it was worth it to me. I can now enjoy using what I have instead of complaining about what I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to write a manifesto, Karl. My bad, I just graduated high school and I'm still on my parents plan. Surprisingly, I'm aware of such a "carrier-neutral" pixel 3XL, but I didn't have the means (and still don't have the means) to purchase one (and I was just grateful to my parents for the one I did get). Either way, you didn't have to try to be a jerk, you did just fine naturally. Even so, I've already GOT the Verizon Pixel 3XL, and buying a second would understandably be a lot to ask of anyone, unlike a simple answer on a topic directed at those knowledgeable on said topic.

notthatkindofclansman said:
No need to write a manifesto, Karl. My bad, I just graduated high school and I'm still on my parents plan. Surprisingly, I'm aware of such a "carrier-neutral" pixel 3XL, but I didn't have the means (and still don't have the means) to purchase one (and I was just grateful to my parents for the one I did get). Either way, you didn't have to try to be a jerk, you did just fine naturally. Even so, I've already GOT the Verizon Pixel 3XL, and buying a second would understandably be a lot to ask of anyone, unlike a simple answer on a topic directed at those knowledgeable on said topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to be sure that others know what you are talking about since your reply talks about "carrier-neutral" devices... Verizon contemplated locking their devices to the Verizon network and backed off. Both the Google and Verizon variants can be ran on other networks. I was talking about bootloader unlocking and rooting and nothing more. As far as I know, you can even put a phone on another network while paying Verizon your installments. Love the Karl Marx reference, BTW. His logic was flawed too, but it is still fun to read in a bubble world that I haven't lived in for the 30+ years since I was where you are now. Hope you find your answers, and I really do mean that.

sliding_billy said:
Just to be sure that others know what you are talking about since your reply talks about "carrier-neutral" devices... Verizon contemplated locking their devices to the Verizon network and backed off. Both the Google and Verizon variants can be ran on other networks. I was talking about bootloader unlocking and rooting and nothing more. As far as I know, you can even put a phone on another network while paying Verizon your installments. Love the Karl Marx reference, BTW. His logic was flawed too, but it is still fun to read in a bubble world that I haven't lived in for the 30+ years since I was where you are now. Hope you find your answers, and I really do mean that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the term I used matter? The usage goes like this: sold by Google=carrier-neutral. That's not the only attribute that term grants; you know that, because you're obviously aware that pixel 3's sold by Google can be unlocked bootloader-wise. So the phone that is Sold by Google ("carrier-neutral") can have its bootloader unlocked.
I genuinely don't believe you mean that because you came here to give an answer to a different question (that no one asked by the way), and now want to leave triumphantly after pointing out a technicality like you just won a debate at a forensics competition, while receiving an Emmy at the Olympic Curling award ceremony going on in your head.
Get over yourself.

notthatkindofclansman said:
Does the term I used matter? The usage goes like this: sold by Google=carrier-neutral. That's not the only attribute that term grants; you know that, because you're obviously aware that pixel 3's sold by Google can be unlocked bootloader-wise. So the phone that is Sold by Google ("carrier-neutral") can have its bootloader unlocked.
I genuinely don't believe you mean that because you came here to give an answer to a different question (that no one asked by the way), and now want to leave triumphantly after pointing out a technicality like you just won a debate at a forensics competition, while receiving an Emmy at the Olympic Curling award ceremony going on in your head.
Get over yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to leave triumphantly at all. I was waiting for your reply and at least now I know that we were talking about the same thing. As for you believing me or not, I just don't care. Your original reply confused me, and seemed like maybe I misunderstood the OP. No technicality pointed out in that case. Now, we can both have me off of your thread neither triumphantly nor award winning. Enjoy your day.