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~~~Welcome to the Android Development Forum for the HTC Vision & HTC Desire Z.~~~
I am TheRomMistress (or TRM for short), your Forum Moderator
I am here to help in anyway I can, so please contact me if you have any suggestions, problems, comments, etc. with this forum. While I cannot promise you will get an immediate resolution, or that I will be able to act on every suggestion, I can promise it will receive my attention.
With that being said, Please take a moment to review XDA forum rule. Anyone found intentionally violating these rules will be punished.
The most important "rule" I urge you not to forget is, HAVE FUN and BE COURTEOUS! Thank you and I look forward to keeping "ORDer" and "Peace" throughout the forum.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
What is development?
de·vel·op·ment
[dih-vel-uhp-muhnt]
–noun
1.
the act or process of developing; growth; progress: child development; economic development.
2.
a significant consequence or event: recent developments in the field of science.
3.
a developed state or form: Drama reached its highest development in the plays of Shakespeare.
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Some of you will have a problem with these rules (those are the ones who need to ingrain them in their tiny brains and deal with it like adults), others will be thankful for them (those are the ones that deserve lots of hugs and kisses, not from me of course). In either event, I expect everyone to follow these rules equally, this includes Junior Members, Members, Senior Members, Developers, Recognized Developers, and even Moderators. No one is above these rules.
While I understand there will always be situations that require a different view on the matter, or a more thorough examination, this does not mean the action taken is inappropriate or unwarranted.
Search before creating a new thread/post.
Do not create a thread in Development just to ask a question.Post in Q&A instead.
Do not create a thread in Development where no developing is actually going on. This includes pre-release ROM threads with no download link.
Treat everyone how you would like to be treated.
Do not go into another ROM thread for the purpose of putting down the Developers work or to boost traffic to another ROM thread.
Links to manufactorers release of source code are not considered development. Post these in General.
Always use propper title formatting when releaseing something in the Development forum. See below.
If you disagree with my action, please PM me so that we may discuss things in a civilized mannor. If needed, I will seek out help from a Senior Moderator.
There are many different age groups using this site, in any case, use comon sence when posting and keep in mind the following: "would I want my grandmother reading this?"
If you are having an issue with another member, please report the post/pm in question rather then handle the matter on your own. We have tools available that you do not.
Take it like a man...even if you are a woman, child or Alien.
Slandering another member will NOT be tolerated.
Spam WILL NOT be tolerated
Failure to cooperate with a Moderator WILL NOT be tolerated.
Laziness WILL NOT be tolerated.
Posting non-development threads in the Development forum will only be tolerated once.
Disregaurd of these rules, as well as XDA Forum Rules WILL NOT be tolerated.
*** Disclaimer***
I reserve the right to modify these rules at any time. These rules written in print will not limit my action if your offence is not described in detail above.
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Read and search before posting a new thread
Redundant threads will be closed or DELETED without warning...even lead up to a BAN!!!!
|| Forum Rules || Forum Search || Google Forum Search || Forum Advanced Searching ||
[REF] Read this before posting new ROM threads!
In order to keep Desire Z & Vision Android Development fora clean and avoid multiple threads for one ROM please do the following:
When posting a new ROM release or a link to a new ROM release, DO NOT create a new thread unless it is a completely different ROM.
If you are posting an update, please edit the active thread instead of creating a new thread. Include the following details:
[ROM][LANGUAGE][DATE]rom name and version (Build)[STATUS]
Thank you for your help in maintaining a clean and effective fora.
Rules updated. Now there should be NO QUESTION what is expected from this forum.
g1doobie said:
this broad takes herself way to serious. its a forum on the internet. get a life
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These rules are used throughout XDA. I am definitely not the only moderator who follows them. Just because this is the internet, does not mean you have free reign to do whatever you want. If that were the case, these forums would be even more difficult to navigate. Again, if you do not like them, you do not have to be here.
Let me start by saying that I love the XDA forum! The talent in developers is amazing, and there are so many members that are willing to share their experiences and knowledge all in the name of making our devices do what they say could not be done.
With that being said there is a huge trend towards meaningless flaming and complaining. Groundbreaking development threads growing by thousands of posts per week, only to be closed for stupid comments and tags, people being rude and downright mean just because someone asked a question.
Would it be possible to change the thanks system to allow for negative feedback, and for there to be consequences for not following the rules? A like/dislike option would help the mods keep on top of an enormous task of being able to keep the forums clean and alllow users another way to find truly helpful members and posts.
Just a thought, thanks in advance for your consideration.
We have discussed the option of adding negative feedback but due to the reasons you suggested above, we are concerned that it might be abused. For example one faction of developers, constantly downgrading anothers work.
Any post breaking the forum can be reported using the "Report post" button and a moderator will look into it.
The Thanks was added as a way to reduce the number "Thanks" posts that appeared after a release.
After reading a few threads and comments from our members I thought it may be worthwhile to create a Feedback, Recommendations or Idea's thread for XDA. We want to improve our forum for developers and the normal users.
So, rather than sending a PM to a Moderator, please feel free to leave any feedback or idea's you may have to improve XDA, so we can discuss them properly, openly, with the plan to hopefully implement the ideas which are good.
It's sole purpose is to improve XDA and collect your thoughts and idea's.
We will all be monitoring this thread, and someone will hopefully reply without much delay.
Thanks
Rick
Moderator/Developer Committee
Edits done by Clark Joseph Kent to better support XDA.
XDA-Developers needs to be more about developers
While I see that time and users have made XDA less about development and more about user support, I think XDA has gone too far in that direction.
Developers need a place to DISCUSS development.
The "General" subforums are too overwhelmed with threads like "Post pictures of your phone", "list of threads linked from other places" and other random "general user" stuff.
The "Q&A" subforums are now a place where moderators chase newbies to. The most technical question you might find in the Q&A section these days is "I just bricked my phone, what do I do?" (Usually, the answers are either making fun of the OP or telling him/her to search.)
The "Development" subforums, which seems like a logical place to discuss development, is now reserved for people to post finish products only and beg for donations - It's the XDA version of the "app store." There's no actual "development" discussion allowed.
Here's what we don't have anymore (but desperately need):
A place where a kernel developer could start a thread discussing the pitfalls of turning off processor cores on a particular device when the device is idle. That would likely lead into a discussion on possible ways to optimize the IN/OUT code for the cores, which would actually *gasp* promote development.
A place where a person might post a "HOW TO" document describing how to modify a stock firmware for a specific device to override carrier controlled lock downs. (For example, editing the CSC for a samsung device.)
A place for development related DISCUSSION - not just a subform for "I cobbled together mods I copied from other people into a so-called ROM and will now beg you to donate to me and press my "thanks" button."
XDA promotes itself as a DEVELOPERS FORUM. The definition of "forum" is "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Doesn't that seem to indicate that development related discussion would be encouraged here?
(continued...)
---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
So, the obvious question about my post above is how do you moderate a "developers discussion" subforum?
I honestly don't see a problem with that. You make posting access to that subforum by request only. The access should be granted pretty freely but with a note reminding the user that any non-development discussions will result in loss of access to those subforums. Plain and simple. Any RD's or ERD's would automatically be given access without the need to post a request.
Only developers should moderate those subforums, as the fact is that XDA has some moderators that have no clue whatsoever what "development" is.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
...
I'll have one more post to discuss the current vagueness of the rules and the random enforcement of them...
Gary, while I agree with many of your key points one I disagree with is that only elite developers (who don't have the time) are the ones who should have the 'final say' with regards to moderation, and that they are the best qualified to do so. Given a good set of rules to use as guidelines, any level headed person who is committed to helping XDA move along smoothly is qualified to be a moderator. I am not a developer, however, I've been moderating forums for years now. People are people no matter what the subject. You and I have discussed the rules, which are being worked on. I like the idea of a 'developer only', invite only forum. I think it's time to make that happen. Given that I am so not a developer, I know when I'm over my head - and we have people on the team who moderators like me can turn to. Moderators are here to help, not hinder - I think we can work this all out so the developers are happier, users learn, and moderators moderate
garyd9 said:
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
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Some interesting points you've listed, which I can honestly say are being looked at, however your point above, I'm gonna have to disagree with. The ERD's are extremely busy with actual development, as are most, if not all the developers. If we where to also ask the ERDs to moderate all the development related forums, they'd have no time to develop
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
garyd9 said:
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I have the utmost respect for ERD's, and RD's. I'm not a developer myself, would never claim to be, but I do try and read up on things to understand them so I can make informed decisions. But likewise, I do ask developers for advice on specific things, then learn from what I'm told. In an ideal world, we'd let ERD's have the final say, maybe even RD's, but with so many in house fights amongst so called dev's, there is the potential for abuse which is what concerns me. I cannot see ERD's doing this mind you.
Again, interesting ideas which I welcome
So on to what I'm sure will be a sore subject: Rules and moderation...
I realize that XDA has grown by leaps and bounds since I first joined. Back then, there were only a handful of people geeky enough to have smartphones. Today, they are the norm. With more users there are more devices, more forums and XDA needed more moderators. That's perfectly understandable. It's also understandable that XDA has reached into the "non-developer" pool of people for moderation help.
However, the forum rules which the moderators supposedly moderate by are too vague and really don't guide users (or moderators) in the proper way to do things. It only makes matters worse then the moderators enforce those rules in seemingly random ways. Finally, when a bad decision is made by a moderator (or a decision that a user thinks is bad), there's no documented way for a user to ask for help. "Report to moderator" is pretty useless when you're only reporting to the same person you are complaining about.
If there's a guideline, it should be shared by ALL the moderators and documented so that users can understand it. The primary location to find these rules and guidelines is a post that is stickied in every single forum/subforum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81 If it's not in that post, then it's fairly safe to assume that users don't know about it.
So what's wrong with those rules? Well, they are pretty vague in too many cases. Vague rules lead to different people interpreting them differently (or interpreting them selectively for different people.) Here's some examples:
"Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. " "Commercial advertising, advertising referral links, pay per click links and other income generating methods are forbidden. Do not use xda-developers as a means to make money." -- Yet, how many people have seen a developer clearly post (or get someone else to post on their behalf) that if people don't "donate" enough money for them to buy a device, they don't development for that device. To me, that sounds like "I'll sell my development for the cost of the device."
"Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.... but may be permitted if ... the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)" -- There are literally thousands of links on this website for downloads on sammobile.com or samfirmware.com. That site requires registration, advertises, and has forums that "compete" with XDA. Yet, the links are still there.
"If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used." -- I think this one depends on who is violating the rule. Apparently, if its a 15 (now 16) year old kid, it's okay. Yes, I'm bitter about this one as I have had my work used (without my permission), had reported it to moderators, was told someone would look into it, and then had the report disappear into a black hole. It only made matters worse when that same person accepted "donations" given as a result of the code stolen from me. Being I ask people to donate to a children's hospital (not to me) for my work, I feel as if my work was stolen from me, and money was stolen from a child who desperately needed medical care. There's no question as to who developed the code, as gerrit/github timedate stamps don't lie. In truth, I wouldn't have minded about this so much if the little thief forwarded the donations to a real charity. I do share my work freely, but I VERY seriously resented (and still resent) my work was used for a thief's profit. To my way of thinking, there's nothing vague about the rule here - only the lack of enforcement.
Then there's the whole thing with that types of threads go into which subforums. There's simply NO consistency with this. A perfect (and recent) example is that I posted a thread in a dev subforum containing modifications for a single stock samsung package, SecLauncher2.apk. That was pushed to apps&themes by a moderator. That same moderator, however, has permitted threads for modifying only "SystemUI.apk" and only "android.policy.jar." He's also permitted completely non-development related things such as "post modem dumps here" and "stock deodex firmware."
So, not only are the rules vague, but the moderation of the rules is so inconsistent that a user can't even look to precedent to decide what is and isn't allowed.
....
I'm going to stop here. I feel like I've started ranting, and that isn't productive. The points are valid, but discussing them has brought up things I'm (obviously) very bitter about.
Really appreciate this feedback, guys. We're going to bring it forth in our monthly call with the admins and site owner. :highfive:
What about doing a forum named like "other devices root development". There are a lot of potential devices that don't get root because they don't call the devs atraction (and some of the have locked bootloaders).
I also think that there are forums from brand new "high-tech" devices that don't get development because well, there is no development for unlocking bootloaders or doing something like root for locked bootloaders, which happens on some devices. So, again, othere devices could have their chance.
mfsr98
@garyd9, no need to be bitter, I'm actually glad to hear you views, so rant away. I created this thread for this very purpose, to hear the views of the users, to better XDA
...........................
You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
reinbeau said:
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
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Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
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Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
It is absolutely impossible to have purely 100% code talk in the dev sections. The size of the userbase is way too large for the mod team to regulate that.
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
sgt. slaughter said:
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
...
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
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You may be right, but I don't want to consider the possibility that XDA-Developers might become a non-developers forums. If your suggestion is carried out, I'd predict that it'd slowly (but surely) lose it's developer core and become more and more another "android central" or other generic handheld forum.
My reasoning is simple: XDA doesn't give birth to developers - they are born and bred before they get here. However, you're suggesting that they won't have a place to "talk shop" here unless and until they achieve RD status, which I'm assuming involves a certain application and requires that some projects have already been hawked here on XDA. I'm making some assumptions about RD here, but I think it'd be fairly safe to assume that a person can't submit a professional non-XDA resume to get it. As well, you are also always going to have some devs that simply refuse to "apply" for what they consider a "silly title." More especially those that see "ROM cooks" called RD and look the other way.
What is a real developer going to do in that case? Simple: find someplace else to talk shop.
(It's almost comical the way I talk about RD here. I've been doing professional dev for a very long, have given back to the android and ppc communities, and been an XDA member for a long time - but never bothered with RD status here when the program started. So, I honestly don't know what it might involve. I might be wrong about any type of requirements.)
I guess this question moves beyond my suggestions. I've been basing things on a developer-centric forum. That's what XDA-Developers was when I joined, and quite a few FAQ's we point users to indicate that it's still intended to be. If XDA is going to move away from that, then please disregard my suggestions.
Take care
Gary
sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Exactly.
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
garyd9 said:
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
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For the time being I'm inclined to let the discussion continue in this thread as there isn't much else being discussed here atm. If more idea's/recommendations appear, we can then create a new thread....if needed. Also, if a set way has been agreed on a particular idea/recommendation, I can create a second post updating users so its not lost within the thread
Making room for real developers again
reinbeau said:
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
Exactly.
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Hello,
I am one of those professional developers in real life, who don't have the time to play silly points games just to get access to the developer part of a forum. So my "XDA status" is stuck at "noob", but I am really here to look for a place to share technical discussion with other developers.
Looking around (I have been lurking for years now), I think the following improved structure would be a good idea:
In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:
1. Firmware and theme releases.
One thread for each firmware/theme series, hosting download links in the top 3 posts, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Samsung Galaxy III "Firmware and theme releases" forum would have exactly one "Cyanogenmod" thread and at most one "Cyanogenmod kang by temasek" thread.
Real cooks can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
2. Free App releases.
One thread for each free app, hosting download links in the top 3 ports, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Free App releases forum would have exactly one "ROM Manager" thread.
Real developers can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
3. Unreleased experiments
One thread for each unreleased firmware/theme/free app, hosting only discussion of what should go into it, difficulties in making it etc. When released the thread is moved to 1 or 2 as appropriate, at the thread OPs command.
Only real cooks and real developers can post here, there is a limit on new threads per user per month depending on the posters general standing.
4. Developer to Developer
This hosts regular forum style discussion threads where developers for that target (OS/phone) can ask each other questions about technical details for the target, one thread per subject matter, no threads about specific projects. This is the place to discuss stuff like ("Which wceload variants are in which upstream firmwares" in a WM forum or "How are the GPIO pins on the SoC connected to other parts of the phone (in a phone specific forum) or "How does the foo() API work" (in an OS forum)).
Only real cooks and real developers can post here.
Determining access:
Now as to determining the "real cook" and "real developer" status of a user, there could be a quiz and a number of extrinsic tests for each OS. Quiz questions would be multiple choice that a real cook/devel would answer easily, but a poser would get wrong. Other tests could be "prove that you have a developer account on Market/AppStore/OVI/Marketplace" "Show that you can sign an empty sis/cab/etc. with a valid developer certificate" Because getting a new certificate/account for some of the platforms may no longer be possible or may be otherwise restricted, such
tests would just count as N correct quiz answers in determining the pass/fail.
Hello and welcome to the India Specific forums,
Before clicking the "New Thread" or "Post Reply" buttons, please take the time to read some rules / guidelines for posting in this forum:
1) Read and follow the Forum Rules:
Plain and simple. No further explanation needed
2) Post your message in the proper subforum (see above):
All threads for Questions, Requests, and Help & Troubleshooting needs, go in the Q&A Help & Troubleshooting sub-forum, (if one exists for your device), and any misplaced threads will be promptly moved to their correct location. Users that continually post in the wrong forum will be addressed accordingly. If you're unsure of where your post or thread belongs, please read the Forum Rules again.
3) No Off-Topic threads allowed:
While some moderator teams may allow the creation of Off-Topic threads, within these forums it is not permitted. There is an entire General Off-Topic forum devoted to this type of discussion and there are enough threads already available to meet anyone's off-topic needs. All Off-Topic threads will be deleted promptly and without warning. Users who continually create these type of threads will be addressed accordingly. A certain amount of Off-Topic discussion is permitted in other threads within these forums and will generally be allowed at the discretion of the thread creator (OP). If you're concerned with the amount of off-topic discussion and misplaced questions in the Development forums, please consider making a Q&A Thread for your ROM / Kernel / Project / etc.
4) No threads or posts asking for the Best / Most stable ROM / Kernel / Mod / whatever, or created for the purpose of comparing Phones / ROMs / Kernels / Mods / whatever:
These threads / posts will be deleted promptly and without warning. They have a history of causing problems due to trolls, fanboys and various troublemakers, and are therefore no longer allowed. Regardless of this reasoning, there is really no way to judge whether or not a particular piece of work is better than another because it's all relative to begin with. If you want to know what piece of work is better for you, install something and try it out for yourself. If you don't like it, try something else. Our Developers work hard to provide us their contributions, free of charge. Please show them the respect they deserve by trying something out and giving them your Feedback.
5) Don't ask for an ETA (Estimated Time of Arrival):
Asking for an ETA is the XDA equivalent of telling a Developer that the free work they provide just isn't enough for you. It usually comes across as rude and / or demanding and most Developers will take offense to it. Even if a particular Developer doesn't mind being asked for an ETA, there are many that do, and there's a good possibility that it will incite arguments in the forum. In the end, it's just best to avoid doing it altogether. If you have no other choice but to ask for an ETA (i.e. the work you're doing absolutely depends on it), then please, do it through a private message and keep it out of the public forums.
6) Keep your signatures at a respectable size:
While members are given a great deal of freedom in creating personalized signatures, it is expected that this freedom is not abused. Abnormally large signatures are obnoxious to most users and they tend to be a major distraction from the topic at hand. If your signature is double the size of an average post or larger, you can expect to be asked to change it. If you're not sure whether the size of your signature is within respectable limits, feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum and ask for clarification.
7) Be nice:
It's not that hard. If you've got nothing constructive or civil to say, don't even bother posting. If you feel the need to respond negatively to someone, please refer to #8.
8) Report all violations of the aforementioned rules / guidelines and DO NOT respond to them in the open forum:
If you happen to notice a rule violation, use the "Report Post" button in the upper right hand corner of the offending post, or send them a polite reminder through private message so they may resolve the problem on their own (for minor violations of course). Please do not respond publicly to posts that are in violation of the rules. Regardless of the fact that it creates more work for moderators to do when cleaning the forum, responding to them in public only compounds the issue and it puts you at risk of getting into trouble yourself. Moderators have much more effective ways of dealing with these situations, than by arguing back and forth and disrupting the entire thread, so please, let us handle it.
If there are any questions or concerns regarding this or any other matter, please feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum.
You can find a list of the assigned Moderators at the top of each sub-forum page.
With that, here are a few great threads to help you get the most out of your experience here... Please take advantage of them:
Get the most out of XDA!!
How to make a good THREAD, POST, QUESTION or POLL
Why you get short/one word answers! (The Long Answer)
How to give constructive feedback to developers
How To Logcat
GPLv2 tips for developers
Getting a moderator's help
And as always...
Thank you, and enjoy your time on XDA
Hi all members of XDA,
whilst we as RC's do our very best to keep XDA as organized as possible by giving you all kind of solutions, like the Q&A/T Template project, the Index project and the Ask Away help project etc etc, these were all RC initiated projects. Although all of these projects were started with the best intentions, I realize now that we never asked what you as users wanted to keep XDA organized. By starting this thread, I want to ask you all, members of XDA, to ventilate your opinions what's missing on XDA and what you really want to accomplish your needs. I could start a poll for that, but I do not feel the need for that at this very moment. I always can start a poll after most wanted needs posted, but for now I only want to know what's living in our community and what is needed in your opinions that is missing at this very moment. Really hope that you will react on this post as much as possible, so I can see what you really need/miss . All reactions will be answered by me (or, hopefully, fellow RC's) and, based on your reactions, I will start a new thread regarding your wishes, based on the most mentioned issue. If there are more important issues, there will be started of course more threads to cope with these "issues".
Everbody, from junior member, member, senior member and also RC's/RD's, are invited to react.
kindest regards and hoping for a lot of reactions, kuzibri
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
Art Vanderlay said:
Hi Kuzibri, nice initiative.
This is only minor but every time I log in I have to scroll right down to the bottom to change the theme to XDA 2013.
Does anyone else find this annoying? I'd rather the option be up top somewhere.
Secondly I think the q&a templates a good idea but no one makes them anymore. The ones that we do have get used and divert thousands of questions from dev threads. The only reason the project died is because the admins implemented an auto generated q&a bot thread to all threads in development sections. Meaning that when someone with less than 10 posts replied to a dev thread, his post got moved to a newly created q&a thread with no OP. That was a bad idea IMO, it led to a lot of useless threads being auto generated. Only humans should create threads.
But since devdb have a q&a thread link, maybe we should utilise it again and make it useful for everyone by actually opening and maintaining these q&a threads with faq's and stuff.
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Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi Art,
Which XDA theme are you using now? I use XDA 2013 beta - 1024.
Regarding the q&a bot threads, I already had many discussions with higher ranked people, like @svetius, regarding the fact that these bot's had no OP, but never got a satisfied answer, also not what you are suggesting now, so IMHO this is a dead end street, unfortunately. I fully agree with you that only humans can start a thread, but I'm afraid that we cannot change that anymore on the bot threads. Although well intended in the beginning, they became indeed a real disaster, which led to the unfortunate end/death of real the Q&A/T Template project, of which I still think that it's a very important addition to XDA. :crying:
kindest regards, kuzibri
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I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option so they want it.
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Will have a thorough look into that, cause I still think that the Q&A/T template thread is a very good way to organize XDA.
kindest regards, kuzbri
Delete
Art Vanderlay said:
Delete
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Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
kuzibri said:
Hi my friend,
send a PM to @svetius, with BCC to you, about the Bot Threads and giving them a "face".
kindest regards, kuzibri
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no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
no new bot threads have been created for months
Sent from my KFFOWI using XDA Labs
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I know my friend and most of them are useless and senseless. That's why I think we should restart the Q&A/T project. I know we have to approach dev's to join this project, but when we are able to convince, certainly the dev's linked to devdb, that this is a dead end street, we stand a good chance. Only restriction IMO is the willingness of other RC's help to restart this project again. Will you join Art and me? IMO this is the only way to prove that it was not a good idea by XDA to start these bot threads with no personal OP. I'm still willing to create a lot of Q&A/T threads as possible when we can dev's prove that this is the way to keep their original dev thread as clean as possible and XDA as organized as possible.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Q&A/T Template project
Hi,
already send a PM to a non-devdb related dev to join our Q&A/T project. Let's see what happens:fingers-crossed:.
kindest regards, kuzibri
Art Vanderlay said:
I'm using XDA 2013 beta.
About the q&a bot threads, what we can do is take ownership of the existing ones and add an OP and other important details to make them worthwhile.
@xanthrax took over one of the bot threads and did a really good job with it http://forum.xda-developers.com/oneplus-one/help/qa-bliss-stalk-team-bliss-bacon-10-28-t2923210
If a human made q&a thread exists for a ROM then maybe the admins can bring back the feature that moves the under 10 posters there whenever they reply to dev thread.
Or at least give devs that option if they want it.
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Click to collapse
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
Darth said:
I'm fairly sure the limitation of no posting in dev threads for members with under 10 posts has been lifted. That's why no new Bot threads, and I don't think devDB threads can restrict their posting anymore either. Again, that's why no new Bot threads.
I think.
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about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
sd_shadow said:
about a month ago or so, I saw posts from under 10 members, saying other wise
Sent from my XT1080 using XDA Labs
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Hmm... I could be mistaken.
Darth said:
Hmm... I could be mistaken.
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No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
Trafalgar Square said:
No, you are right.
Svetius explained it to me via PM.
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Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
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I am not sure about this but DevDB Q&A bots are gone.
Art Vanderlay said:
Has the 10 post rule been scrapped?
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Yes.
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, with no real intention of actually getting it, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I highly doubt any change in the foreseeable future. In a couple years, I envision XDA as a wasteland of Root Bounty threads and people complaining about Xposed not working.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
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Agree with this 100 percent. Also IMHO the post rule should be raised to 100 posts before posts in development. If they can contribute have them message the OP and if the OP thinks they can contribute then lift the limit for said user on said thread. I cannot tell you how many threads I just don't even bother reading after seeing a couple posts than are just as easily answered by googling questions.
Often even new R&D threads are just placeholders where people hope a "dev" will come chime in and then they can piggy back off of that. The whole culture has changed and its horrible and sad to see this. Also there is very little structure or general polling of those that drive the ideas and development this site thrives on. I definitely get the feeling the site is moving more towards generating traffic and less towards being a content driven site.
Sadly I think a lot of people are on board with the change.
ryanbg said:
I've been a member of XDA since January of 2008, before 99% of the moderators had even heard of it, and before Android was released. Since then, the community has literally tumbled down to such a disappointing low. There's absolutely no incentive for developers to stick around anymore, and some of the members show such blatant disrespect for those who try to help them. Absolutely no one tries to learn how to do something as simple as learning how to use ADB. Another gripe I have with XDA is titles such as Recognized Contributor. Requiring a minimum post amount is quite a poor metric for contributions to the community. We should be judged based on content rather than quantity of low-quality/redundant posts.
For example, I applied for Recognized Contributor just because, after releasing a bootloader unlock for three Samsung devices along with another well-recognized and skilled developer, in addition to supporting the users who chose to utilize it. Before that, 95% of my posts are simply assisting members with accurate/relevant information or explaining various aspects of Android and hardware. I was denied because of post count.
This community used to be about learning and teaching, but the attitude and general reception of that ideology is long since past. The general attitude now is to self-serve and receive instant gratification. Look at people like Dan Rosenberg @djrbliss and ask them why they left. Incredibly talented developers and researchers used to thrive in this community and now are expected to spoon-feed everyone. There has definitely been a paradigm shift and it's definitely sad to see. I miss the early days of Android and even back when this site was dedicated to WM5/6 on XDA devices. Competent users no longer contribute to this community and I really don't blame them. It's all about scripts and one-click tools and completely missing the point of XDA-DEVELOPERS
I know @Surge1223 would echo this sentiment, but to be honest, I doubt I see any change every coming at this point.
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Hi,
I understand your disappointment and frustration. Since we both joined XDA in 2008, XDA has grown to such a very large community that it needs very clear rules to be maintaned/managed as best as possible. Therefore it is for XDA not possible anymore to keep every member satisfied. Of course a lot has changed, sometimes leading to better results and sometimes not, but that's the reality. Besides that, the amount of different devices has grown enourmously, making the work of Mods, Admins and even higher not easier. I still see and know a lot of competent users who are willing to contribute to this community. I also know a lot of Mods and Admins with the best intentions to make XDA better. In summary: the purpose of this thread is to get/receive new ideas how to make XDA better organized in the future and/or add features to XDA that are now missing. That's my mission.
kindest regards, kuzibri