Develop Bugs

[Q] Sense rom vs non sense room?

What's the advantage and disadvantage of both roms?

hope this helps: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=823228
short: sense is bloatware^^

mad-murdock said:
short: sense is bloatware^^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have two Desires, one running Sense and the other running CyanogenMod.
My "primary" device is my Sense phone, but due to an SD card problem last week I had to switch to using my CyanogenMod phone as my daily device as I didn't have time to sort out the other phone until the weekend just gone.
The long and short of it is that I am back to using my Sense phone because I think that the experience is better. Whilst CyanogenMod and similar ROMs may well be faster, IMHO this is only really apparent in benchmarks and not in general use.
That's not to say that CyanogenMod doesn't bring a lot of nice stuff to the table (much of which should be rolled back into AOSP IMO) - just that I personally find that Sense is just a more pleasant user experience, and because of this I can't see that it is "bloatware".
Regards,
Dave

Sense = owns all (IMO)

I've got the same opinion like Foxmeister...Cyanogen might be faster but you can't really notice the difference between Sense and non-Sense Roms in everyday-usage. Cyanogen (and other AOSP Roms) are only better in Benchmark Test like Quadrant...And I think Sense is a great User Experience and makes using the phone much easier...

It's down to personal taste, no one can tell you which one is better, you'll have to find out yourself through experiencing both types of ROMs

Thx guys~ i'll just stick to my leedroid 2.2e, love it...
Can any1 guide me into a thread or website explaining radio & kernel in android term? and how to install/flash it? is it by using rom manager? thx in advance...

EddyOS said:
Sense = owns all (IMO)
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Click to collapse
DomiKamp said:
I've got the same opinion like Foxmeister...Cyanogen might be faster but you can't really notice the difference between Sense and non-Sense Roms in everyday-usage. Cyanogen (and other AOSP Roms) are only better in Benchmark Test like Quadrant...And I think Sense is a great User Experience and makes using the phone much easier...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how is your battery life fellas?
I used to loose 50% everyday with minimal usage

Tried Modaco not bad, but wanna try more, so i tried leedroid 2.2a, was very good, fast and stable, with launcher pro, then wanna try out non sense rom, because many said that it's faster, so i tried open desire, auto brightness seem to be a little too dark, get back to leedroid 2.2b, then don wanna give up on non sense rom, tried defrost again, turtle photoframe work slow when i change to other photo, some photos don even show up... get back to leedroid 2.2e... some how i found out that leedroid is faster than those non sense rom, y? i never use linux, sux at hacking, and love gaming (angry bird rocks!) and web surfing, i guess sense rom is better for me... wanna try cynogen but give up on non sense rom... leedroid is the best rom for normal user like me...

This is too general a question. there are many different builds of sense ROMS and many builds of ASOP ROMS.. they are all different. you can't really compare them as "sense vs non sense".
To put it simply you cannot compare them as a whole category.

celestialspring said:
how is your battery life fellas?
I used to loose 50% everyday with minimal usage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently using a MoDaCo R9 ROM.
23h 21m since unplugged and 60% battery left, though the phone was in airplane mode from around 11pm to 7am.
I didn't use the phone heavily yesterday, but did make/take a few phone calls, send/read a good number of emails, surfed the web, and listened to a bit of Spotify, so I'd definitely say my usage was more than minimal.
Regards,
Dave
P.S. <PEDANT ALERT> Argghh!! My pet peeve! Use of the word "loose" when what is really meant is "lose"! </PEDANT ALERT>

I'm on the HD port from robocik and it just rocks...FB/Twitter/weather sync every hour, bit of WiFi/Angry Birds every day, Gmail as and when I get an email, few calls, few txts. Off charge at 7:30am and put back on at around 11pm with about 40% left

Sense vs. Non-Sense is a preference. As mentioned rightly, many of the ROMs in both categories will work just as good for a specific user. But there are some distinct differences between them without a question. After months of testing with no real favoritism or devotion to some dev, I prefer some Sense based by a big margin on many fronts (Stock by nickiberli and teppic, LeeDroid, RCMix). And quite honestly, I haven't till now used any ROM with my full setup that was clearly and noticeably as fast and smooth as the RCMix v0.11 (except for the dirt slow restart/start).
RCMix v0.11 battery life is indeed good (I don't see it any worse than HTC 2.2) and the Battery Info section now reports the usages far more correctly. But it is still a beta work on many fronts. No cam or vid playback is too great a major issue for a smartphone. I mean, even apps like Nvu, Smart Compass, Cam Card, Document Scanner, Shop Savvy, Surveyor, Barcode Scanner, etc, won't work as they should due to this. It should be a cracking ROM once they can get these issues fixed.
------------------------------
- Sent via HTC Desire -

Sense: You hate how she looks but love her qualities.

I hate Sense but I love SRS enhancement. Sense ROMS always drain fast for me and are memory consuming. Anyone suffering the same pain as me?
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App

I came over from a Galaxy S 4G and I knew what I was getting when I switched. I must say now that I have it I really hate sense!! I knew there was an MIUI available so the sense only lasted about 20 minutes after un-boxing.

Really? I'm the exact opposite. AOSP is quick with good battery life but I can't stand it. It feels incomplete to me. Sense is the best to me, even though it might be a little slower and use more battery.
On a side note why would you want a HTC phone if you dislike Sense?

I am in agreement with you on this, the sense are a little flashy out of all the roms. They also have a lot of extra mods and different settings, which to me gives it a heavy feeling. The asop and akop aren't heavy at all, and they still have the same customization options that I want, yet very easy to use. I love my ICS, I loved CM7, i always find myself using an asop over sense
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA App

djaquez21 said:
Really? I'm the exact opposite. AOSP is quick with good battery life but I can't stand it. It feels incomplete to me. Sense is the best to me, even though it might be a little slower and use more battery.
On a side note why would you want a HTC phone if you dislike Sense?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree with you more
Sent from my ADR6350 using xda premium

I did the exact same thing although I had to wait for the alpha rev for windows back in July. Anyone remember that?? Don't get me wrong HTC makes beast phones. But STOCK sense is garbage. If devs didn't put their custom tweaks into their roms I think a lot of people wouldn't use them.

I dunno about stock sense being garbage. I came from a Droid Eris though which is why I probably like sense now. Sense 2.1 ran at a crawl on that phone so AOSP Rom were the o ly way to make that phone run good. With the dinc2 though, I've noticed that sense ROMS just run better than aosp. The AOSP ROMS seem to lag after being on without a reboot. The sense ROMS don't seem to do that.
Sent from my Sabotaged Droid Incredible 2.

Sense has some amazing widgets and I like most of the interface, but CM7 and MIUI roms are so much quicker. Luckliy I have Boot manager, so I can use on rom for a week, till I get bored, then switch it up. I no longer have to make backups and reflash. I always come back to sense though, mainly becuase of the widgets

Well the thing with Sense is if you come from a history of using it your going to like it no matter what. I mean I got the Droid Incredible 2 because it was free for me. I tried handling sense but replaced it after a week. This phone was the first HTC phone I ever had. (First Android for me was the Motorola Cliq XT since my intro to the smartphone world was through the iPhone). Just Sense is not like ICS where I just recently came from. And ICS was my baby.

I LOVE Sense!! And, for me at least, it has better battery life than AOSP ROMs although it is a little slower.

fredrick1213 said:
I LOVE Sense!! And, for me at least, it has better battery life than AOSP ROMs although it is a little slower.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sense better battery life than aosp? No way.

I came to the dinc2 from an og droid, and I have to say I would take sense over aosp any day. And yes, I also get better battery life on sense. Then again, I bought an htc phone because I wanted sense.
Sent from my mobile typewriter with tapatalk

I came over from the OG Droid, so Sense was completely new to me when I got my Incredible 2 last summer. I tried it for about a month before I finally decided I just wasn't a fan, so I went to Go Launcher. A bit later, I decided to root the phone and try out some fancy new ROMs. I've been through a bunch of different selections since then. Generally anytime a new Sense ROM comes out, I see all the people that rave about it, so I wind up giving it a try. But it never fails, within a week or two, I wind up going back to an AOSP choice.
As far as battery life, I haven't personally noticed a huge different between the two. I've run Sense flashes that are good and battery, and others that are not as good. Same for AOSP. It the end, it basically comes down to me just not personally loving the Sense UI.

Sense:
. much better camera (especially in low light conditions)
. Better phone and contacts apk s . Better phone and speaker in call volumes
. Slightly better battery life
. More polished UI
. Feels like it's made for the phone
Aosp:
. Quicker, lighter, snappier
. Power toggles are awesome
. Feels incomplete
. In call volumes are questionable. They're either too low or too high.
Conclusion: can't go wrong with either one, but the edge goes to sense (until aosp ICS is fully functional)
"the relentless pursuit of the perfect ROM "

I thought I'd really like Sense, but once I used it, I just didn't care for it. Can't Stand the launcher - the enormous phone button, the dedicated "customize" button, etc... So I use ADW, which means I loose all the Sense widgets, which leaves little else of value.
The camera on Sense did seem to be better than AOSP, not sure why that would be. But I use either MIUI or CM7 as they're so much faster and, in my experience, do get better battery life.

ChrisDDD said:
Can't Stand the launcher - the enormous phone button, the dedicated "customize" button, etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, the launcher kills Sense for me. Why on earth do they do that? That stupid customize button is one of the worst UI design decisions I've ever seen.
Ultimately, too, I'd rather have my phone run well than look pretty, so while I mess around with Sense ROMs when they come out, I always end up back on AOSP. I like HTC hardware, but Sense is more trouble than it's worth.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA App

Yea I have to agree with that much about sense. The launcher does blow pretty bad. The paginated app drawer is pretty sad too. I use go launcher pretty much because the HTC launcher is so bad.
Sent from my Sabotaged Droid Incredible 2.

disconnecktie said:
Yea I have to agree with that much about sense. The launcher does blow pretty bad. The paginated app drawer is pretty sad too. I use go launcher pretty much because the HTC launcher is so bad.
Sent from my Sabotaged Droid Incredible 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well certain versions of rosie are better than others....i like the mt4g slide version a lot (in tsm bullet, cheap plug) and its a lot different than normal rosie
bliss sense 3.5 rosie is barely recognizable as a sense launcher in its layout
and from what ive seen of ics sense 3.5/3.6/4.0 they completely redid the layout

I like bliss alright but i haven't tried any of the 3.5 ROMs on the dinc2 so I don't know how well they run.
Sent from my Sabotaged Droid Incredible 2.

ChrisDDD said:
I thought I'd really like Sense, but once I used it, I just didn't care for it. Can't Stand the launcher - the enormous phone button, the dedicated "customize" button, etc... So I use ADW, which means I loose all the Sense widgets, which leaves little else of value.
The camera on Sense did seem to be better than AOSP, not sure why that would be. But I use either MIUI or CM7 as they're so much faster and, in my experience, do get better battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me clarify that I never use the sense launchers. Go is king for me, whether on sense or aosp
"the relentless pursuit of the perfect ROM "

Which ROM's have better battery life ? CM10 or Sense ?

I am ditching Verizon, and my cool Galaxy Nexus, running CM10. Going to pick up an international One X to use on Straight Talk. I really love the gorgeous display on the One X, plus the sexy cool design as well. And I am burned out on my last few Samsung phones, for crappy GPS locking, and pissy radios and WiFi.
Anyways, I use my phone a lot during the day, and prefer battery life over cool whiz bang features. I have read people saying that Sense based ROM's offer much battery life over CM10 JB ROM's, is that true ?
I like the look and feel of stock Android Jellybean, but won't install a CM10 ROM if it has poor battery life, and am willing to give a good Sense ROM a shot if it will offer better battery life ?
Opinions wanted please, thanks.

To me, sense now has amazing battery life, can't say it did have not to long ago. The latest sense based roms include superb battery life even with moderate to full use my battery holds out even past the end of the day. However, I can't comment on how this compares with aosp and aokp roms, I never really stray from sense you see, not now it's improved dramatically both in performance and battery life
To me, sense roms, down to personal preferences but like I said, I haven't tried any other roms other than sense
Good luck.
Sent from my HTC One X
---------- Post added at 02:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------
Also viper x, I strongly suggest
Sent from my HTC One X

In my experience Sense ROMs are significantly better when it comes to battery life. Standby times are simply amazing. Also the sense camera is much better than whats included in CM10.

I Agree, the one thing i like about sense ROMs is the camera app. i pretty much hate the rest of the sense. but from what i've seen my battery life with sense wasnt so bad. But i've fall in love with PA ROM.

Android Revolution HD has a very decent battery life and silky smooth on everything ... Go for it :good:

Which of the CM10 ROM's offers the best battery life for the One X ?

Zorachus said:
Which of the CM10 ROM's offers the best battery life for the One X ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using Tbaldens cm10 (a12 atm, a13 is available), and battery life has improved alot with the latest releases. Yesterday i got aprox 3h screen time with some light gaming, lots of music listening and browsing web and xda rest of the time. I cannot comment on other cm10 roms since i only been using this one.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

ououououo said:
I'm using Tbaldens cm10 (a12 atm, a13 is available), and battery life has improved alot with the latest releases. Yesterday i got aprox 3h screen time with some light gaming, lots of music listening and browsing web and xda rest of the time. I cannot comment on other cm10 roms since i only been using this one.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does that CM10 ROM offer any customization like center clock in the status bar, or is it just a pure CM10 build only, no extras ?
I can imagine the screen on the One X has to look absolutely beautiful with the CM advanced color settings ?

Zorachus said:
Does that CM10 ROM offer any customization like center clock in the status bar, or is it just a pure CM10 build only, no extras ?
I can imagine the screen on the One X has to look absolutely beautiful with the CM advanced color settings ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pure... But fast I briefly tried some others with more customizations but they were not perfect smooth. I have gotten so used to it so it's hard to forget when trying other roms. You could look for standalone mods i guess if u would go with this one, however I'm not at all updated with content so don't know how much there is/what is available.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Why don't you try Viper X (sense ROM), you can remove most sense UI bits and make it look very close to AOSP without compromising on battery life or other sense features (i.e: Camera, FM Radio)

Love the look of the stock JB ROMs, but the battery life just doesn't do it for me. I will suffer with Sense's look until more efficient ROMs are available.

sense by far
Zorachus said:
I am ditching Verizon, and my cool Galaxy Nexus, running CM10. Going to pick up an international One X to use on Straight Talk. I really love the gorgeous display on the One X, plus the sexy cool design as well. And I am burned out on my last few Samsung phones, for crappy GPS locking, and pissy radios and WiFi.
Anyways, I use my phone a lot during the day, and prefer battery life over cool whiz bang features. I have read people saying that Sense based ROM's offer much battery life over CM10 JB ROM's, is that true ?
I like the look and feel of stock Android Jellybean, but won't install a CM10 ROM if it has poor battery life, and am willing to give a good Sense ROM a shot if it will offer better battery life ?
Opinions wanted please, thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sense by far... (using cm10)

PhoenixFx said:
Why don't you try Viper X (sense ROM), you can remove most sense UI bits and make it look very close to AOSP without compromising on battery life or other sense features (i.e: Camera, FM Radio)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used Viper (Sense) and a few CM10/AOKP ROMs and the non-sense ROMs have FAR, FAR inferior battery life.

PhoenixFx said:
Why don't you try Viper X (sense ROM), you can remove most sense UI bits and make it look very close to AOSP without compromising on battery life or other sense features (i.e: Camera, FM Radio)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which bits can you remove though? I for one cannot stand the Sense Dialer, Contact List, Gallery, SMS app and Music Player. If they can be replaced with stock ICS apps that would be pretty awesome.

I used have a GNex that ran on Minco v4 (Stolen, hope the thief rots in hell and the phone blows up in his hand to send him there), Now I have a OneX with ViperX 2.2.1 and Faux Kernel. The battery life is significantly better. I have tried JB roms in my HOX but all of them were a bit buggy and had very poor battery life. You should definitely go for a sense rom with faux kernel.
---------- Post added at 11:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------
Baldilocks said:
Which bits can you remove though? I for one cannot stand the Sense Dialer, Contact List, Gallery, SMS app and Music Player. If they can be replaced with stock ICS apps that would be pretty awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this one http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1705334. I use ViperX and it offered me to remove sense when it updated to 2.1. But that messed up the phone completely and I had to restore from a nandroid backup. But this rom seems to have a non-sense version and people don't seem to be complaining much. Maybe worth a try

Baldilocks said:
Love the look of the stock JB ROMs, but the battery life just doesn't do it for me. I will suffer with Sense's look until more efficient ROMs are available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how much screen time are you getting using sense ROMs. and mainly what do you use it on. because I'm pretty satisfied with my battery life on JB ROM.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

ricopoetra said:
how much screen time are you getting using sense ROMs. and mainly what do you use it on. because I'm pretty satisfied with my battery life on JB ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was losing about 5% every 10 minutes with the screen on the lowest setting with any current Jelly Bean ROM.
I get 4+ hours on screen time at 50% brightness with OrDroid's SENSE based ROM.
I text a lot, words with friends, draw something, news apps, music...

I'm doing 4h ish too with paranoid android. mostly IMs twitter instagram. ebook reading and sometimes draw something. browsing if necessary.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

Wow, 4hrs is a lot! i barely get 2.5 hours + 45mins talk time on Ordroid with 3g usage at 3 hours and wifi during work. Came to this thread to see if any JB improvements had been made recently.
You guys on the stock Ordroid kernel? Underclocked?

I would use a good custom kernel. I'm currently using slim bean with ncx kernel and I get 4.5 hours of screen time.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

Seriously considering AOKP or CM - Stable enough?

Hey Guys,
I am considering switching to ICJ or CM for regular daily stable use, I'm not frequent flasher, as in once I flash I expect to run on it for weeks. I noticed that the usual bugs shown for CM and ICJ seem to have stayed pretty much the same, like MHL output, incall volumne and grey images on camera for CM.
This puts me at a little doubt if it is suitable for daily use and how is it for gaming as I do game a lot on travel journeys.
Unless I'm mistaken, ICJ seems to indicate less bugs compared to CM? So yeah I am seriously considering so please let me know what you guys think in terms of daily use + gaming.
Is battery life also an issue? Last I heard CM and ICJ AOKP had battery drain issues?

I was sorta like in the same position as you.
My first flash was ViperX in combination with a AOSP Jellybean theme. And I have been using that for a long time because of the stories of stability about aosp/aokp.
Only recently (2/3weeks) I started using IceColdJelly because of the then base 3.18 WiFi bug on sense.
I couldn't have been more happier with my OneX to be honest, its like a complete upgrade looks(imo) & performance wise
I haven't really noticed any difference with the battery so far between ICJ or ViperX or stock but im a pretty generic user, just whatsapping/messaging and some youtube/internet.
So far I havent seen any bugs so iam really pleased to have switched to ICJ and there arent really any big downsides to it.
Never tried CM so I cant tell you anything about it.

ok sounds promising, have you fired up any games? I use my phones for a lot things message, emails, games, music etc
Just worried about graphics driver issues or any thing like that.

Im using ice cold and I played games on it street fighter 4, modern combat 4 all work really well, I play a lot of games so yes its a really good rom man go for it, I just moved yesterday to it

I am with the same dilemma.
And about camera quality? Dialer and contacs?
That's what I think sense has some advantages.
I am considering Sense rom + rom cleaner + nova launcher.

diegosps said:
I am with the same dilemma.
And about camera quality? Dialer and contacs?
That's what I think sense has some advantages.
I am considering Sense rom + rom cleaner + nova launcher.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sense ROM can make use of the hox image chip where as aosp/aokp can't hence the lower image quality.
I've been using CyanogenMod on my phone for a few days now and the camera isn't much worse but you definitely see it when you use the flash.
I'm currently using MX camera just for the cool effects I have a DSLR camera so I don't use my phone for photographs only a quick snap for Facebook or something.
They rest how ever is totally bug free
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

@ op you should test for yourself and all that depends on what you need from your device as example when I need mhl I revert to sense and when I really need my camera I do it also but with the recent changes in the camera in cm and Aokp the camera now is way better very near to sense... So aging you should decide for yourself...
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
---------- Post added at 09:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 AM ----------
The battery on ICJ for me is better than any sense rom I've ever used
Vert suitable for daily use
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Yep this is a dilemma, I use my camera phone quite a lot and definitely appreciate the extra quality but then again I recently started to use CameraZoom so does that mean it is not utilizing the HOX image chip better? Or is this more low level that any camera app will benefit as long as it is a sense rom?
I'll make a decision after more consideration and reading up on. Additional opinions and comments appreciated.

Try CarbonRom, I've tried CM & ICJ not that there was anything wrong with them but with Carbon you get the best of both customization wise.
Battery life is good, gets me through the day with atleast 4h screen on. And I use it pretty heavily mainly Whatsapp, Twitter, IG, G+ and Flipboard.
Not any noticeable issues so far, no camera problems, I'm not a heavy gamer so cant tell you much there.
.

I tested a few sense roms and CM/AOSP roms. So far I liked the CM based roms the most, I run CM10.1 atm since most of the ported roms don't have the full language support (mixed languages in menus english and german in my case).

considering buying htc m9

hello,
i want something with fast up and download,
rootable for an ad free phone,
good camera
and good battery life
and dual front facing speakers
seems like the htc m9 can achieve all this with
rooting and various mods
how good can this phone become,
and will i need to keep rebuilding it every
week?
and does it have support for newer roms etc,
or will is it already "too old"?

I guess that all depends on what your previous phone is.
My previous phone was Samsung galaxy ace 2, so getting an HTC M9 is definitely a good upgrade. Performance, multitasking and pretty good camera. Mind you that it's not the best in its class but considering where I came from, it's really good.
As of software development, in terms of official support, we might get Oreo (still uncertain), but nougat is on the table.
Since there is no official support anymore most sense based custom rom developers are already hinting that there might not be any more updates. That leaves with aosp/los based custom rom, that sometimes have hiccups, and currently a bit slow in progressing.
Other than that it's quite a decent phone. I'm currently using Viperone 6.2.0 (Nougat) and it satisfies my need quite well.

current phone is an iphone5s
sick of how slow it's become
6-8 seconds to open the camera app
no more jailbreaking,
at the mercy of ads everywhere
did have an aquos once
hated
it lol
but want to go android again bc of above reasoks,
mostly i hate ads

9kaze9 said:
mostly i hate ads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if that's the criteria, any rootable phone should do it.
Xposed would enhance it further with minminguard.
Never had any issues with ads on every phone of mine with that config.

well,
i'd like a snappy camera too,
and battery life.
long pauses after a pic is taken is frustrating
and battery lasting only half a day sucks too
aftermarket waterproof cases are hard to find
for android too...

sorry if i'm too vague
how good is the htc camera after being modded/
custom rom?
comparible to iphone?
and does the battery life improve with custom
roms? how long can an htc m9 last with heavy
youtubing?

Well, the camera is decent enough, and fast enough for me. HDR is a bit slow, but most of the time it's good to take good images. Without hdr, it's really fast and not that bad.
I haven't used an iPhone thoroughly before though, so I can't really compare.
See the attached pictures from some of my shots with this phone. This is from sense-based custom roms. Aosp based custom roms is a bit worse, especially in dark conditions.
Battery life is only average on this phone. Most of the time it could last me the day on normal usage.
For exclusively YouTube, it should last 3-4 hours.
See my screenshot of battery usage, around 1 hour it drops 20%, and I was watching YouTube the whole time.

thank you for your detailed reply!

9kaze9 said:
thank you for your detailed reply!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you could always press the thanks button for a simple thanks ?