Develop Bugs

Silverlight/XNA App development section of the forum

As per title,
Having never writting apps before, I thought I'd have a go at downloading Expression studio (mainly due to it being free for students )
Seems pretty easy to get the hang of and these tutorial videos to follow are pretty handy http://microsoft.com/design/toolbox, it would be nice to maybe have a section of the forum for developing apps in Silverlight
Espescially seeing as deploying apps directly to your phone in Visual Studio seems to be the only way to side load apps at the moment.

This is the right section, as soon as I can make clear that this section is not intended for general chat but actual software development questions

ok so, pulling the silverlight and xna libraries out of the emulator and cooking them into wm6.5.5 i now need a way to test if these libraries are valid.
anyone interested in compiling a simple test for these? it seems the xna game, input and core libraries are there as well as silverlight browser and ui stuff.
very interested to see how valid these libraries are if at all

norgan said:
ok so, pulling the silverlight and xna libraries out of the emulator and cooking them into wm6.5.5 i now need a way to test if these libraries are valid.
anyone interested in compiling a simple test for these? it seems the xna game, input and core libraries are there as well as silverlight browser and ui stuff.
very interested to see how valid these libraries are if at all
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Ha love this way of thinking, how to get new stuff running on old stuff.
Reminds me of this big community i have heard of.

Sorry dude but I'm very sure this won't work.
First up, the files have dependencies (namely CE7 and other core files must use the CE7 API). You can't get around this without source code.
Secondly, the files from the emulator have ARM headers but use x86 code, as far as I know.

Thanks!!
You can find a whole bunch of silverlight projects to download here http://silverlight.net/community/samples/silverlight-samples/

Noonski said:
Ha love this way of thinking, how to get new stuff running on old stuff.
Reminds me of this big community i have heard of.
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Click to collapse
thinking without restricted boundaries, it may not work and i may be waaay off, but then again....it may just work lol and if not i've lost nothing.
the silverlight causes issues and i am sure there is more to xna than just the framework dll's. will be interesting to try and call functions within them and see what happens either way.

[Q] REAL hacking.

Hello there to all the souls of the xda forums.
im new to wp7. never used one before like 3 days ago. i like it, great device my surround is. but im not here to tell you about how good it is. we all know its good.
im here to ask if theres any real hacking going on with this thing yet. im looking for at least some kind of command line.
from there i could use tools such as aircrack, nmap, metasploit, SET, etc.
ive had an iphone for about 3 years, booting iOS and Android. i am used to hacking from that, but at the same time i know there a bigger user base for those devices, so theres more devs for it. i just wanted to know if anyone has already started on such a project before i dedicate alot of my time to developing this for you all.
BTW i am not interested in pirating apps, cracking apps

With enough effort, command-line interface *might* be possible - the OS technically supports such things - but the underlying core is Windows CE. Even less so than NT, CE really isn't meant for a CLI; apps are written with the intent of being run on a graphical interface. Also, having no POSIX compatibility and only partial Win32 compatibility, a lot of apps that you're used to from the desktop (or from POSIX-based phone OSs like iOS and Android) aren't going to be available.
That said, if you want to get started in the WP7 hacking space, there's certainly plenty to do. One project that I have on the back burner until I get some more urgent stuff out of the way is a SSH client. There are a number of things that are required here. First of all, we have homebrew Socket support, but the official SDK lacks it so you'd need to use a native Homebrew DLL. Second, there's no official command line interface, so you'd need to write one. The second point is all sorts of fun, since what you're really writing is a terminal emulator.
Other interesting projects include getting a unified cross-platform approach to writing to the filesystem, or even reading from all of it (instead of the relatively small portions currently accessible) or figuring out how to make third-party apps run in the background.

thanks man. I think I'll work on getting a full file browser for the phone. That should happen , i think, before anything else. As far as a terminal emu, it sounds like its going to be more of a chalange for me. Again, I'm used to more Linux and UNIX systems than I am windows. I had to reinstall windows 7 onto a partition just so I could sync the phone with the Zune software Microsoft insisted I use.
So is anyone currently working on the file browser? Has there been any progress with it? If so, who should I contact so I can help?

sea_bass said:
thanks man. I think I'll work on getting a full file browser for the phone. That should happen , i think, before anything else. As far as a terminal emu, it sounds like its going to be more of a chalange for me. Again, I'm used to more Linux and UNIX systems than I am windows. I had to reinstall windows 7 onto a partition just so I could sync the phone with the Zune software Microsoft insisted I use.
So is anyone currently working on the file browser? Has there been any progress with it? If so, who should I contact so I can help?
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TouchXplorer. Do a bit of searching. A lot of homebrew has already been in the works.

thesecondsfade said:
TouchXplorer. Do a bit of searching. A lot of homebrew has already been in the works.
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Thanks. Just found that page

[Q] Converting PC game to Xperia Play

Hello everyone. I was wondering if there is any way to convert the popular game, "I wanna be the guy" to the Xperia Play. Or for that matter, any Multimedia Fusion game. Since the game was made in Multimedia Fusion 2, and the source code was released, AND there is an option to export the game into android, it should be possible, right? If anyone knows how to do this, and will be willing to work on it with me, then please reply to this thread. Thank you.

The android export is only a placeholder-text at this point, it's still being worked on

Hmmm, well there is a java export. Maybe we could somehow import that into eclipse and then edit the buttons.

bballchace said:
Hmmm, well there is a java export. Maybe we could somehow import that into eclipse and then edit the buttons.
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Its nowhere near that simple. While Android programs are programmed in "Java" theres way more behind the scenes with libraries involved and other parts of the Android SDK.
It could be done, but it is a staggering amount of work.

Rogue Leader said:
Its nowhere near that simple. While Android programs are programmed in "Java" theres way more behind the scenes with libraries involved and other parts of the Android SDK.
It could be done, but it is a staggering amount of work.
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well, since thats basically out of the question, what if i got an html5 source code of a similar game that was made in gamemaker? would that be possible to port onto the Xperia Play? Sorry about me being such a noob, I am not familiar with the Android SDK, and only know C++

bballchace said:
well, since thats basically out of the question, what if i got an android export of a similar game that was made in gamemaker? would that be possible to port onto the Xperia Play? Sorry about me being such a newbie, I am not familiar with the Android SDK, and only know C++
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Creating a game using game maker will only give you the binaries not the source, you cant just use it to make an android or iOS game.
Honestly the easiest way to make a game for android would be to create it in flash and then put in in some kind of wrapper to make it launch natively. The proper way to make a game would be to learn how to create one using C++ which will probably take a good few months before you could even create something basic. It depends how fast you are at learning new things.
However if you are going to learn programming I highly recommend starting somewhere easier like VB or Java to at least understand the general concept of programming. (preferably VB is you are a total newbie)

bballchace said:
well, since thats basically out of the question, what if i got an html5 source code of a similar game that was made in gamemaker? would that be possible to port onto the Xperia Play? Sorry about me being such a noob, I am not familiar with the Android SDK, and only know C++
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be even more work than converting the Java program. There is no simple way to "Port" games from one platform to another unless there is an emulator (and they don't make PC emulators for Android, and even if they did it would probably run like ****).
Android games are programmed in Java, however the Android SDK has libraries to make it work for every possible function of an Android Phone. If you don't know Java, you won't get very far in making anything work on Android. There are also special libraries for the Xperia Play you will need to download and then program the code into the game to recognize the gamepad controls.
If you really want to do this I would go ahead and learn Java, make a few programs and then tackle the game. Its going to be quite the project, but you'll definitely learn a lot.

[Q] Bluestacks or equivalent for RT?

Rumors are flying that bluestacks will bring their newly touch-optimized app to RT, giving us access to Android Apps. Anyone else heard something similar?
Also, is there any equivalent we could get our hands on right now, like an open-source equivalent that could be ported? It seems ridiculous that to run native ARM apps on an ARM platform we need to port an ARM environment from x86 back to ARM again... there should be a simpler way. All pure speculation of course, but it seems like it should be possible. So, outside of a bluestacks port, how could Android apps be run on an RT device?

Install a Linux kernel and a Dalvik runtime... Seriously, do you realize how silly what you're asking for sounds?
"Why can't we run Linux apps on Windows? It's an x86 processor too..." (Note: Android is not all ARM.)
Stuff like Bluestacks is a huge, complicated project.

GoodDayToDie said:
Install a Linux kernel and a Dalvik runtime... Seriously, do you realize how silly what you're asking for sounds?
"Why can't we run Linux apps on Windows? It's an x86 processor too..." (Note: Android is not all ARM.)
Stuff like Bluestacks is a huge, complicated project.
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Seriously your a bore

rw6497 said:
Seriously your a bore
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He's not a bore, he's realistic. It's not his fault that people make outrageous requests all the time and expect them to be fulfilled. I find it quite irritating too, especially when people PM me and ask me again because it's been posted in a thread that it's not possible without an unreasonable amount of work (that we're not going to do on our spare time) and they don't like that answer.
You guys have to remember, we're doing this for free. We're not obligated to port every single program you guys throw at us. If you don't like that, learn how to port them yourselves.

I don't want to spawn an argument...
I'm not asking anything from anyone, I'm just curious about some rumors and inquisitive about possibilities. I'm not all "OMG! netham45! Can u plz make this run android!? And then iOS! And PlayStation games!" I respect netham45 a ton and think his work is amazing.
I'm just opening discussion here.

For comparison, consider the Wine project: well over a decade of development (much longer than Android has even existed) to have an open-source tool that can run many x86 Windows apps on x86 Linux. Or consider Cygwin, which can't even run x86 Linux apps on x86 Windows; they must be recompiled for Cygwin first. Expecting that some equivalent program to run ARM Dalvik/Linux apps on ARM Windows would have just popped out of the woodwork in a usable state - even as usable as Wine, which is nowhere near 100% app compatibility yet - is quite unrealistic.

jtg007 said:
It seems ridiculous that to run native ARM apps on an ARM platform we need to port an ARM environment from x86 back to ARM again...
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Click to collapse
Bluestacks involves ZERO emulation of ARM. Android apps are run inside the dalvik virtual machine (itself a register based version of the java virtual machine). To run an android app just needs a DVM and its class library: bluestacks pretty much does this. Android native code apps do then get complicated yes but then the android NDK has a rather convenient feature that bluestacks can exploit.
NDK compiles native binaries for both x86 and ARMv7 by default (note default, you can over-ride which platforms it compiles for, I believe ARMv6, ARMv6hf, ARMv7, MIPS and x86_32 are available options although I am not 100% sure on the exact arm versions so might be wrong). Bluestacks is only running on x86 and x86_64 machines. x86_64 machines can safely run x86_32 code. So really bluestacks when it encounters a native app "just" has to run the x86 binary the NDK produces on windows/mac with a compatibility layer. Still a complex job of course.
Bluestacks on windows RT could actually take the same shortcut bluestacks on windows and OSX takes in regards to native code, just with the ARM binaries running in a compatibility layer instead of the x86 binaries.
Bluestacks still has to mess about a bit exposing hardware to "android" correctly and handling a few extra bits and pieces but generally it works rather well and in theory could work on windows RT. However in practise it might have some speed sacrifices which will become much more apparent seeming as the guts of most windows RT devices are also the guts of android devices, now you've introduced slowdowns and the RT device will be slower than if it just ran android in the first place, might not be an issue on some less intensive apps but something like shadowgun would probably have noticeable slowdowns. Also I doubt a company like that behind bluestacks wants to develop for jailbroken devices, microsoft certainly wouldnt give permission for something along the same lines to be included on the windows store. The other major issue is OpenGL ES. Non existant on windows RT, bluestacks I believe converts OpenGL ES calls to full OpenGL. We dont have that either. We have directX or software. In theory you could convert the OpenGL ES calls to directX, certainly not impossible, but would certainly be alot of work.
TL;DR. Its theoretically possible to have android apps running on windows RT. There are too many issues to make it viable at this moment in time.
Future updates to what microsoft does and doesn't allow on RT (OpenGLES I'm looking at you) and knowledge/hacks (GLES>DX?) gained as more people take a poke at it might help nudge a dalvik VM on RT in the right direction in future though.

I wonder how relevant this is
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2018...tility-to-run-android-apps-on-windows-rt.html

Interesting, but too early to call "relevant", I think. That article is over two months old; has anybody heard anything since? It's possible that the project is being worked on internally already and will be available soon, but don't count on it.
That said, we now have three ways to get software onto RT:
1. The Windows Store. Official, easy, and can be monetized, but requires Microsoft approval, must run in Metro, and restricts available APIs.
2. Sideloaded Metro app. Semi-official (no hacks needed) but requires going through the (fairly simple and free) process of equipping your device with a developer license. Still runs in Metro and the AppContainer sandbox, but you can somewhat ignore Microsoft's approval process and use any API that is reachable.
3. ARM-compiled desktop app. Requires a jailbroken device, which MS could later try to block, but for now it's easy. No API or sandbox restrictions, aside from the lack of certain features (like OpenGL) on RT.
I wonder which one Bluestacks would choose? #1 is the most beneficial to them, if they can do it, and if MS rejects it they could always go with #2 as a fallback. #3 is the easiest for them, most likely, but carries the most risk. There's also, of course, item #4: forget RT, and keep going with x86 Windows and OS X, where all the customers are.

I dont think they would actually have to go as far as option 3. ModernUI would probably be more than enough for bluestacks.
I wonder if microsoft would try and prevent bluestacks from the marketplace. I guess as far as they are concerned it might improve the image of their devices if they can run android apps too (minimizing costs of migration to RT from android for enterprise customers too, although it seems ipad's took off mostly in enterprise).

Windows 9 On RT

Hi,
Like you know, windows will release a beta of w9 in somes days, and they said that they'll do an hybrid system for all platform. Did you think there'll be an emulator or anything different to run somes x86 app like a "computer" ?
We have awaiting fo a while a jailbreak for 8.1, but if w9 give us the opportunity to run x86 programs it'll be better, hope they'll release this soons to take a look.
What do you think about this?
Regards

No, only metro apps will be universal, not x86 ones

mod edit
On topic. I can't see why Microsoft would give us the ability to run apps outside of the Metro sandbox. Although I am surprised that they don't try and entice the open source community into contributing to the store. We all know that they'd love to see more quality apps on there.

Hello my friends @andTab Even if "somebody" would give you the jailbreak for RT 8.1, I bet you won't be really happy with that:
Ofc it would give some great possibilities, but its not like you can run many x86-programs on JB RT, because you can only emulate it and the performance is,....
[how to say it nice],..... not optimal xD
you can hardly play games like "Heroes of Might and Magic 3" but that is the maximum. As I understand you that wouldn't be enough (plz correct me if im wrong)
But for users loving to play around and start i.e. JDownloader with a loadingtime of ~5min; or those, using a lot of pure .NET 4 programs it would be really cool.
[But most of them are happy enough with a jailbroken RT].
Why am I writing this?
I just wanted to ask you politely, if you could edit your post, because it sounds really offensive.
BUT I also wanted to be cooperative, and give you some informations...
Ontopic:
I think the hope, that ms would be nice to us, is gone...
I strongly suggest you, to dual-boot WinRT8.0-JB & WinRT8.1 !!!
joke:[until somebody tell us how to "open the bootloader" and boot for example a linux-distro. (perhaps via soldering a hardware-flasher and reflash that damn thing )]
Cheers
Blade

I removed the majority of the unnecessary and negative comments. Lets try to keep the rest of this thread on track now please.

It will be Windows 10
1 windows will work on all the devices, laptop, phone, and TAB!!!!

9 or 10, I don't have a lot of hope right now for Windows on ARM... I keep hearing rumors that unlike x86 Windows 10, the ARM version (Windows RT) is going to be "combined with windows phone" whatever that means, and loose the desktop. Sounds like a dumb-ed down phone OS to me... and nothing like what I'd want on my Surface RT, and definitely not what I'd hoped for which was basically an ARM version of the full-blown Windows 10 OS, with and unlocked dekstop, windowed store apps, etc.
But, since Microsoft hasn't actually demoed the ARM version of Threshold I guess we don't know anything for sure.

@mark manning Can you move this to General please. It should not be in DEV/Hacking

wcomhelp said:
@mark manning Can you move this to General please. It should not be in DEV/Hacking
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Moved