Develop Bugs

The New S-OFF chance without XTC "Hboot 1.08" [Discussion]

Hey guys,
Nearly everybody knows that it sucks to be S-ON, you can't flash custom roms, delete system apps which just take space on your device. An the only way out is to buy a XTC clip. But for what? The Wildfire S isn't a high end device, it costs about 200 euros. And the XTC clip about 80 euros. Thats to much.
Alphax, tried it, without any success. HTC won't tell us anything and HTC Dev.. hmmm, htcdev, who can ask them? NOBODY, I searched for the email adress but no way man.
But now we got a new chance!!
The HBOOT 1.08 is here. With the update to 2.3.5 comes the hboot 1.08. Alphax tried to unlock the hboot 1.03, but now they can try it on the new hboot 1.08. Maybe its easier, may harder. But there's even a new 50% chance for us User.
SO:
Stop trying to hack (unlock) the old bootloader! Start developing with the new. We can get it. I know it!
Good Luck!
Matteo

maybe a chance
来自我的HTC Wildfire S 使用XDA 高级版 发送

LOL isn't higher hboot more secured?????

drummer1839 said:
LOL isn't higher hboot more secured?????
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why should they make it more secure? Nobody can unlock it instand of XTC.
When one door closes, another opens.

Ufff, your title is a bit misleading. I thought that solution is here.
This is just another " let's discuss " thread. Hope we find the solution fast.
Sent from HTC

No.12 said:
Ufff, your title is a bit misleading. I thought that solution is here.
This is just another " let's discuss " thread. Hope we find the solution fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry^^ I changed the title

matt5eo said:
Why should they make it more secure? Nobody can unlock it instand of XTC.
When one door closes, another opens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like that phrase: when one door closes, another opens.
I'm glad that you renamed the thread title because we're already too tired of misleading information going around.
Maybe there is a vulnerability waiting for an exploit in the new bootlooder...

WFS is the first and the last phone that I bought from HTC. I really hate htc Samsung at least it is not difficult to crack

I would have been in your group.....but my bootloader didn't get upgraded by the RUU(like some others)....anyway you might be right anything new is not always improved........there might be a chance that an exploit is found in the new HBOOT

Yea, but no one from here is qualified enough to that unfortunately.

csoulr666 said:
I would have been in your group.....but my bootloader didn't get upgraded by the RUU(like some others)....anyway you might be right anything new is not always improved........there might be a chance that an exploit is found in the new HBOOT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You updated the firmware to 2.3.5 but your hboot is still 1.03? Am I right?

Mine is still 0.90 after flashing 2.3.5 RUU..
i think he has the same too...

Maybe HBOOT version depends on how one updated to 2.3.5 ?
I dit FOTA update from HTC and got new HBOOT 1.08. Maybe it's different if you flash the files uploaded in the ROM section.

I also did it with the ruu Rom update. If You want it to flash again I can give you the link. Just write me a message.

matt5eo said:
I also did it with the ruu Rom update. If You want it to flash again I can give you the link. Just write me a message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You flashed with RUU and got the new Hboot???

Hi I have now Hboot 1.08 after flash rom to 2.3.5 with this tutorial
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1363693

picko1 said:
Hi I have now Hboot 1.08 after flash rom to 2.3.5 with this tutorial
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1363693
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i did from that too..
but didn't get new hboot..
everything else is ok..

Same too in my wildfire s. Android 2.3.5 with ruu but hboot 0.9 only
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using XDA App

Yes, I did it with ruu. But I used another file:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NETNLZD0
This must flash the hboot.! Try it out.

Maybe tommorow, i have no windows pc here :S
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using XDA App

[Q] How do I change my CID (and get EU RUU)

I have gotten myself a s-offed HTC One X from a local carrier with their firmware on it so I have no real hope of fast updates...
CIDgetter says in the top left I have CID of 11111111, yet going down to ro.aa.maincid says TELENZ001 - the carrier
Obviously I am s-offed and can get into the bootloader, how do I go about changing my CID and flashing a European RUU?

Have you tried just plugging in when in fastboot and running the RUU? If you really do have Super CID it'll just work

Sorry to ask this but have you contacted the guys in the s-off thread? They may be interested in hearing from you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1604300
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Mind giving me a walk through guide Eddy? With a $600 toy I don't wanna mess anything up...
Will post in that thread badger and see if I can be of any use

Can you make a picture of the bootloader. To see what version HBOOT and radio you have. Maybe this is causing the issue.

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:
Mind giving me a walk through guide Eddy? With a $600 toy I don't wanna mess anything up...
Will post in that thread badger and see if I can be of any use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Boot phone into fastboot, connect to PC, run RUU - not a lot else to do!
It'll either work or give you an error and reboot, with no changes made

Cid-11111111
hboot-0.43.0000
radio-1.1204.90.13

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:
I have gotten myself a s-offed HTC One X from a local carrier with their firmware on it so I have no real hope of fast updates...
CIDgetter says in the top left I have CID of 11111111, yet going down to ro.aa.maincid says TELENZ001 - the carrier
Obviously I am s-offed and can get into the bootloader, how do I go about changing my CID and flashing a European RUU?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wawawawa!
Don't change your CID! a CID of 11111111 should be able to flash anything. SuperCID!
---------- Post added at 04:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 AM ----------
Doombadger said:
Sorry to ask this but have you contacted the guys in the s-off thread? They may be interested in hearing from you.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1604300
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please!

Supaiku said:
wawawawa!
Don't change your CID! a CID of 11111111 should be able to flash anything. SuperCID!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realise that ofcourse, its the maincid I want changing. I assume flashing the EU RUU will change that maincid?
On that note can anyone link me to the RUU I would want?
Oh and I did post in the s-off thread, skimmed through the pages since my post and no one seemed to say anything in regards to my post

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:
I realise that ofcourse, its the maincid I want changing. I assume flashing the EU RUU will change that maincid?
On that note can anyone link me to the RUU I would want?
Oh and I did post in the s-off thread, skimmed through the pages since my post and no one seemed to say anything in regards to my post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bump

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:
Bump
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have superCID then choose whatever RUU you want from HERE. It will not change your CID if you flash a particular RUU.

May I hook on to this.
My CID is O2__001. So I want to change it into 111111.
When I boot into fastboot and give 'fastboot oem writecid 11111111' it says:
FAILED (status read failed (Too many links).
I've tried different usb-ports, different usb-cables
Or is there another way to change the CID?
Bootloader is unlocked (HTCDev)
HBoot: 0.43.0000
Softwareversion is still 1.26.206.2, no updates available
Someone can help me?
Thanks in advance

almanbrother said:
May I hook on to this.
My CID is O2__001. So I want to change it into 111111.
When I boot into fastboot and give 'fastboot oem writecid 11111111' it says:
FAILED (status read failed (Too many links).
I've tried different usb-ports, different usb-cables
Or is there another way to change the CID?
Bootloader is unlocked (HTCDev)
HBoot: 0.43.0000
Softwareversion is still 1.26.206.2, no updates available
Someone can help me?
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't without S-OFF, so you will only get updates from o2 or you can go custom

EddyOS said:
You can't without S-OFF, so you will only get updates from o2 or you can go custom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your fast replay!
How do I change S-ON to S-OFF

You can't, and this is why the OP has a rare phone...
Go do some reading and you'll see why we can't get it

You're really fast! Thanks, I will search.

shadowboy23 said:
If you have superCID then choose whatever RUU you want from HERE. It will not change your CID if you flash a particular RUU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for not just going ahead and flashing it but...
a) Do I need root/htcdev to flash? (im assuming not)
b) If I flash the EU RUU will I get OTA updates as theyre pushed out (im assuming so)
EddyOS said:
You can't, and this is why the OP has a rare phone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Straight from HTC, that's why review phones sent out to media (at least in New Zealand) are also s-offd

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:
Sorry for not just going ahead and flashing it but...
a) Do I need root/htcdev to flash? (im assuming not)
b) If I flash the EU RUU will I get OTA updates as theyre pushed out (im assuming so)
Straight from HTC, that's why review phones sent out to media (at least in New Zealand) are also s-offd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have S-OFF you don't have any need for HTCdev. Being superCID your phone can get OTA updates as long as you have stock recovery.

shadowboy23 said:
If you have S-OFF you don't have any need for HTCdev. Being superCID your phone can get OTA updates as long as you have stock recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thought that might be the case, as for flashing the RUU, is it the standard CWM way or with the fastboot files you mentioned in the video in your sig? Do the same instructions apply from it for me?

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:
Thought that might be the case, as for flashing the RUU, is it the standard CWM way or with the fastboot files you mentioned in the video in your sig? Do the same instructions apply from it for me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bump

[Q]S-off Marvelc

Does anyone know of a way i can S-off my CDMA WFS? I found simonsimons34 tutorial on how to s-off but all the download links weren't working. Does anyone know of another tutorial on how i can do this?

SargentRudy said:
Does anyone know of a way i can S-off my CDMA WFS? I found simonsimons34 tutorial on how to s-off but all the download links weren't working. Does anyone know of another tutorial on how i can do this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check the tutorial link in my signature. Look for the S-OFF section.

HBOOT?
kalaker said:
Check the tutorial link in my signature. Look for the S-OFF section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did, and i noticed it only works before htcdev? i cant find the Clean s58 part in the bootloader.I am running HBOOT 1.09.0000. I have unlocked bootloader. Do i need to downgrade the hboot then?

SargentRudy said:
I did, and i noticed it only works before htcdev? i cant find the Clean s58 part in the bootloader.I am running HBOOT 1.09.0000. I have unlocked bootloader. Do i need to downgrade the hboot then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. You don't. It should work even with the HTCDev version. Ignore what I said about it needing to be older. I re-tested it.

kalaker said:
No. You don't. It should work even with the HTCDev version. Ignore what I said about it needing to be older. I re-tested it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much this worked perfectly
But, is there a way i can tell if i actually have it? like, in case i messed it up somehow to see if i did it correctly? And can i delete the DIAG files after im done?

SargentRudy said:
Thank you so much this worked perfectly
But, is there a way i can tell if i actually have it? like, in case i messed it up somehow to see if i did it correctly? And can i delete the DIAG files after im done?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and yes.
To check, go into HBOOT again. If it says "S-OFF" anywhere, you succeeded. (If you haven't deleted the diag files, take out your SD card.)
You can delete the diag files once you're done. Don't delete the diag files until you verify that it succeeded. (Therefore, take out the SD card when going into HBOOT.)
You can put the SD card back in afterwards.

[Q] Can't Update passed 4.0.4

Okay, so I have a One X, International with quad-core. CID is HTC__001.
I've had a few problems over the passed year with the phone and I had to send it into HTC twice, and on the second occasion, they replaced everything except the plastic frame.
Ever since I've received the phone back it has had 4.0.4, and I haven't been able to update. I manually search for updates but it says it's up to date.
Not exactly sure where to go from here, I've been hesitant to do anything about it because last time I updated to 4.0.4, which is when I had the problem, HTC had to replace the phone.
Anything will be appreciated. Not the most tech savy when it comes to this kind of stuff
Thanks
Johnny

Look for the 3.14.401.31 ruu and run it. It will flash the phone (if successful) to stock jellybean and wipes the phone. So back up stuff you need. Better to be safe than sorry.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2094113

Mr Hofs said:
Look for the 3.14.401.31 ruu and run it. It will flash the phone (if successful) to stock jellybean and wipes the phone. So back up stuff you need. Better to be safe than sorry.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2094113
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey sorry, but just want to clarify, how exactly do I go about doing this, do I just plug in my phone and run the .exe. Also do I need to be rooted?
Thanks

GAngeloni29 said:
Hey sorry, but just want to clarify, how exactly do I go about doing this, do I just plug in my phone and run the .exe. Also do I need to be rooted?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your bootloaded should be locked or relocked and you just start .exe file. You don't have to be rooted.
Since you got phone from HTC, bootloader is locked so you can start .exe file right now.

Hey, so I tried to run the ruu. I went through the process and got a "signature error 132" on the Update Utility. So after some research apparently the ruu that I downloaded was the wrong one, which was "RUU_ENDEAVOR_U_JB_45_S_HTC_Europe_3.14.401.31_R_Radio_5.1204.162.29_release_302015_signed"
In the attached image it has all the information.
From what I understand, something about 2.17.1900.1 is important, but I have no further knowledge and I'd love to hear what you guys think.
Thanks a lot,
Johnny

GAngeloni29 said:
Hey, so I tried to run the ruu. I went through the process and got a "signature error 132" on the Update Utility. So after some research apparently the ruu that I downloaded was the wrong one, which was "RUU_ENDEAVOR_U_JB_45_S_HTC_Europe_3.14.401.31_R_Radio_5.1204.162.29_release_302015_signed"
In the attached image it has all the information.
From what I understand, something about 2.17.1900.1 is important, but I have no further knowledge and I'd love to hear what you guys think.
Thanks a lot,
Johnny
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you start bootloader are you S-ON or you are S-OFF. And are you Endeavoru XE or PVT

I sssumed because of the cid he was on 401 but has a variant the 1900......not sure that the 401 works indeed

Okay, so after looking around I couldn't find anything with 1900. Would anyone be able to redirect me?
And to answer Thant's question, I am S-ON and Endeavoru PVT.
From what I understand, you need to be rooted to become S-OFF, but this will allow you to run any ruu as it is no longer dependent on the "1900." Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'd love to hear the best course of action from you guys.
Thanks

Well i would check with your provider/HTC ! I assume your bootloader is still locked atm, keep it that way and return with the statement that you can't update it while the update should be there. And if there is no available update then they should give a reason why it's not available !
If they can't help you at all you can try to unlock the bootloader and flash the 3.14.401 firmware to upgrade the hboot. Don't know if it works but might be worth a try

GAngeloni29 said:
Okay, so after looking around I couldn't find anything with 1900. Would anyone be able to redirect me?
And to answer Thant's question, I am S-ON and Endeavoru PVT.
From what I understand, you need to be rooted to become S-OFF, but this will allow you to run any ruu as it is no longer dependent on the "1900." Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'd love to hear the best course of action from you guys.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look what I found for you CLICK read third post. The guy say he have the same problem end he fixed with instal RUU 2.17.401.2.
Download this RUU from the link and run it fallow the instruction. You must to be with LOCKED or RELOCKED bootloader I think you are with LOCKED!!!
EDIT: Please report back to know for future

Thant said:
Look what I found for you CLICK read third post. The guy say he have the same problem end he fixed with instal RUU 2.17.401.2.
Download this RUU from the link and run it fallow the instruction. You must to be with LOCKED or RELOCKED bootloader I think you are with LOCKED!!!
EDIT: Please report back to know for future
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, just ran the 2.17.401.2 ruu and it worked! I'm going to run the 3.14.401 ruu soon, I'll report back with the results.
Thanks a bunch guys
EDIT: Hey so I tried to run the 3.14.401.31 and it didn't work, another signature error. So what I did was scanned for software update and I found an update for ICS, so I updated 4.0.4 further, restarted the device, scanned again for software and there it was 3.14.401.27, downloading as we speak
Thanks guys for the help

Awesome ! And thanks @Thant for this nice find :thumbup:
Don't forget to make a nandroid backup of the stock rom when you decide to install a new custom rom !
CASE CLOSED !

[q] debranding

Hello. I have an HTC ONE M8 CID : ORANG001. Bootloader LOCKED and S-ON. Running : Android 4.4.3
It is carrier unlocked, I can use whatever sim I like with this phone. Now, I want to get rid off ORANG001 and change it with a HTC__001 or some other CID so I can receive updates directly from HTC.
Does anyone know some safe steps to accomplish this ? Or I can change somehow the recovery with another one ? I think ORANG001 means that is orange stock recovery. It's not carrier locked, but still, I want to replace the ORANG001.

PoweredTek said:
Hello. I have an HTC ONE M8 CID : ORANG001. Bootloader LOCKED and S-ON. Running : Android 4.4.3
It is carrier unlocked, I can use whatever sim I like with this phone. Now, I want to get rid off ORANG001 and change it with a HTC__001 or some other CID so I can receive updates directly from HTC.
Does anyone know some safe steps to accomplish this ? Or I can change somehow the recovery with another one ? I think ORANG001 means that is orange stock recovery. It's not carrier locked, but still, I want to replace the ORANG001.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need s-off to chance your cid...
After this you can play with you phone as you wish, even convert it to GPE edition...
Sent from here

lukes91 said:
You need s-off to chance your cid...
After this you can play with you phone as you wish, even convert it to GPE edition...
Sent from here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After S-OFF can I still receive official updates from HTC ?

PoweredTek said:
After S-OFF can I still receive official updates from HTC ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you can
Sent from here

PoweredTek said:
After S-OFF can I still receive official updates from HTC ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only if you have stock rom and recovery. But if you go that far down, may as well download it from here and flash it yourself.

PcFish said:
Only if you have stock rom and recovery. But if you go that far down, may as well download it from here and flash it yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but to S-OFF one must be rooted first, right?
UPDATE : I just unlocked the bootloader. I want to root the device but what TWRP should I flash ?
UPDATE : Rooted the device and installed SuperSU via TWRP. Next, getting S-OFF.
UPDATE : I get this message while flashing firewater : firewater can not work on your device.
Until I manage to S-OFF can I flash through TWRP a custom ROM like CM for example ? Or S-OFF is a must for doing this ?

PoweredTek said:
Yeah but to S-OFF one must be rooted first, right?
UPDATE : I just unlocked the bootloader. I want to root the device but what TWRP should I flash ?
UPDATE : Rooted the device and installed SuperSU via TWRP. Next, getting S-OFF.
UPDATE : I get this message while flashing firewater : firewater can not work on your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For firewater yes, I'm not familiar with the other methods.
If it's saying it doesn't work for your device, you're out of luck, unless you try the other methods. Which you do at your own risk obviously.

PcFish said:
For firewater yes, I'm not familiar with the other methods.
If it's saying it doesn't work for your device, you're out of luck, unless you try the other methods. Which you do at your own risk obviously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are the other methods, and I cannot install a custom ROM like CM with S-ON right ?

PoweredTek said:
What are the other methods, and I cannot install a custom ROM like CM with S-ON right ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sunshine? I forget the names.
You only need an unlocked bootloader and custom recovery to install custom roms.

PcFish said:
Sunshine? I forget the names.
You only need an unlocked bootloader and custom recovery to install custom roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then what is the purpose of S-OFF ?

PoweredTek said:
Then what is the purpose of S-OFF ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can flash whatever rom you like without s-off...
S-off is required to write to all partitions, change cid and so on (google and xda are your friends)... You can still achieve this by flashing a stock-like rom like arhd or maximus te and paying 25 bucks to Sunshine developers...

lukes91 said:
You can flash whatever rom you like without s-off...
S-off is required to write to all partitions, change cid and so on (google and xda are your friends)... You can still achieve this by flashing a stock-like rom like arhd or maximus te and paying 25 bucks to Sunshine developers...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have CM11. Next step, S--OFF via SunShine.

PoweredTek said:
I have CM11. Next step, S--OFF via SunShine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sunshine requires the stock sense rom .. i hope you made a nandriod
or you can just flash this
http://www.androidrevolution.org/downloader/download.php?file=One_M8_2.22.401.4_odexed.zip
once your s-off I recommend this guide
http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-one-m8/general/change-wwe-m8-to-dev-edition-ota-t2826567

PoweredTek said:
I have CM11. Next step, S--OFF via SunShine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure you need s-off?
From your posts, I can plainly tell you are a noob. (no offence, that just what we call the new to rooting people here.)
S-on is there to protect your device from becoming bricked when you flash something you shouldn't be.
With S-off, if you screw up, your $700 phone might be turned into a paperweight with absolutely zero chance that the warranty is still valid.
If you want my advice, don't go S-off till you know what you are doing.

xunholyx said:
Are you sure you need s-off?
From your posts, I can plainly tell you are a noob. (no offence, that just what we call the new to rooting people here.)
S-on is there to protect your device from becoming bricked when you flash something you shouldn't be.
With S-off, if you screw up, your $700 phone might be turned into a paperweight with absolutely zero chance that the warranty is still valid.
If you want my advice, don't go S-off till you know what you are doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just S-OFF. So I think you were wrong.

PoweredTek said:
I just S-OFF. So I think you were wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't say you won't be able to s-off, I asked you if you needed it.
Why do you need S-off? Do you even know what s-off is for?
Or do you just want it because you think it's cool?
Anyways, happy flashing dude.
I have a feeling that in a week or two, you'll be back on this forum begging for help, and I'll say to you, "I told you so!" But I really hope not.
Have fun, and be careful what you flash now.
No joke.
EDIT: I see now where you thought I was wrong. I didn't mean you will bugger your phone while doing the S-off, I meant you may bugger it up after, because you are S-off.

xunholyx said:
I didn't say you won't be able to s-off, I asked you if you needed it.
Why do you need S-off? Do you even know what s-off is for?
Or do you just want it because you think it's cool?
Anyways, happy flashing dude.
I have a feeling that in a week or two, you'll be back on this forum begging for help, and I'll say to you, "I told you so!" But I really hope not.
Have fun, and be careful what you flash now.
No joke.
EDIT: I see now where you thought I was wrong. I didn't mean you will bugger your phone while doing the S-off, I meant you may bugger it up after, because you are S-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For example the red text cannot be removed with S-ON.

PoweredTek said:
For example the red text cannot be removed with S-ON.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got this reply just after I PMed you.
I think you are going to be just fine.
Keep reading and learning, and don't be afraid to ask questions.
You got this buddy.

xunholyx said:
I got this reply just after I PMed you.
I think you are going to be just fine.
Keep reading and learning, and don't be afraid to ask questions.
You got this buddy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no PM.

PoweredTek said:
There is no PM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sent a PM then, and have just sent a new one two minutes ago before I saw this post.
Also, I just tried to send a friend request that didn't deliver because there was no friend button for it?
The junior status maybe?
Anyways, the gist of it was this:
I was very mistaken about you. You are obviously not a noob from what I've seen on subsequent posts, you are just an M8 noob. I was in your position once, and I get it 100%
The thing is, on the Q&A, I get sick of the same questions over and over and over.
And also, people getting into soft brick trouble because of s-off.
I have no worries about you though buddy.
You will be just fine. It's not really that hard. Just different than the rest.
It's worth it though. The M8 is SOOO nice!