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I uninstalled Kies because when it came up indicating there was an update for my Kies, it wouldn't work. When I tried to download and install the latest version from Samsung, it came up that OSX 10.5-10.7 only are supported.
Anyone manage to install Kies on OSX Mountain Lion?
cue_32 said:
I uninstalled Kies because when it came up indicating there was an update for my Kies, it wouldn't work. When I tried to download and install the latest version from Samsung, it came up that OSX 10.5-10.7 only are supported.
Anyone manage to install Kies on OSX Mountain Lion?
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Click to collapse
you and me both...a little frustrating but with any luck an update will be out sooner rather than later. In the mean time i have to sneek onto my wifes laptop.
Jimmiray007 said:
you and me both...a little frustrating but with any luck an update will be out sooner rather than later. In the mean time i have to sneek onto my wifes laptop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah I had to pull my old laptop out of the archives to get access to Windoze... I guess if anyone has the .dmg file that can work on OSX Mountain Lion can post it here if anything.
cue_32 said:
yeah I had to pull my old laptop out of the archives to get access to Windoze... I guess if anyone has the .dmg file that can work on OSX Mountain Lion can post it here if anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same problem
Still waiting for an update from Samsung.
Ran into this the other night. Wonder how long before it updates... guess I'm glad I have a Windows partition for work.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda app-developers app
It's all part of Apples great big plan, block any Samsung applications on their Macs!
KIES on ML
i extracted the application itself, but kies can't recognize my s3. you can trie your luck if you want. just reply/message me and i will upload it.
Simple fix guys. Get a real OS. Done.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
bootloopz said:
Simple fix guys. Get a real OS. Done.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so what is your so called 'real OS' ?
davidderdavid said:
so what is your so called 'real OS' ?
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Click to collapse
That would be pretty much anything that isn't developed by a company with an apple containing a bite out of it as a logo.
Hahaha here we gooooo...
"Hi I'm a Mac...."
"...and I'm a PC"
just for the heck of it I wanted to see if I could use this kies via my Ubuntu.
on the phone:
So I turn on WiFi-Direct (i'm home so naturally I have my WiFi working)
then I start Kies from app icon.
In a short time Keis gives me an address.
I type this address into my laptop browser to connect.
and sure enough I have a page which shows various images, videos, ringtones, contacts, bookmarks, etc that lives on my phone. I've uploaded files to the phone using this. So it works.
and I'm using a real OS.
I love how a powerful, beautiful frontend to BSD is not classified as a "real OS". What, because it doesn't run .exes? Give me a break. I run Windows 7 in a virtual machine with 4GB of RAM and it runs flawlessly any time I need to run a Windows app. It also allows USB passthrough so I can flash my phone with Odin. I can do anything a Windows computer can do (besides game, but that's what my PC is for) without actually starting up my loud, powerful PC.
Lose the bias, guys. I'm sure you dislike Macs because you buy into the whole "Macs are for idiots" paradigm, on top of them being expensive. Cry more.
As for the topic, I haven't tried Kies in ML but I do have some intermittent WiFi issues. Hopefully 10.8.1 will address a lot of the problems.
I have a mac with lion and I use parrells with win 7 and I only use Odin that's only thing I trust.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Apparently you can bypass the installer and the app works just fine: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4163556?start=0&tstart=0
acjohnson55 said:
Apparently you can bypass the installer and the app works just fine: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4163556?start=0&tstart=0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried that, even on 10.8.1 it still doesn't work. Sure I can launch the app, but doesn't connect to phone and I can't disable automatic backups cos the app crashes when I open that tab.
Also, side-note:
yokken said:
I love how a powerful, beautiful frontend to BSD is not classified as a "real OS". What, because it doesn't run .exes? Give me a break. I run Windows 7 in a virtual machine with 4GB of RAM and it runs flawlessly any time I need to run a Windows app. It also allows USB passthrough so I can flash my phone with Odin. I can do anything a Windows computer can do (besides game, but that's what my PC is for) without actually starting up my loud, powerful PC.
Lose the bias, guys. I'm sure you dislike Macs because you buy into the whole "Macs are for idiots" paradigm, on top of them being expensive. Cry more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Finally someone who actually knows that OS X is BSD, and thus a REAL OS... the GUI means jack ****, as if I ever need to do something that the GUI "limits" (which is not much), I can fire up a terminal and run whatever command I wish. As a system admin of both *Nix and Windows, I can safely say that Windows is the only OS that shouldn't be classed as a "REAL" OS (although that would be short-sighted, as it's perfectly decent and usable). I mean it's technically the only mainstream OS that doesn't follow some kind of *nix background and therefore is needlessly different...
I have kies installed on my macbook pro with mountain lion 10.8.1 and have not had any issues to date. Maybe check in settings you can use apps from the internet and its not only setup for app store apps. I never had an issue with mine and even recently have upgraded the software to make it compatible with my new phone firmware.
Trying to find an app that will let me remote desktop my tablet from my phone?
Is it even possible?
I was in bed last night and wanted to do something on my tablet, but it was downstairs, and I couldn't be arsed to get it, this is my main reason for it.
Thanks
Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using xda app-developers app
Try this
JUMP DESKTOP
Handy of I need to access my PC, but I want to be able to access my nexus7 from my phone if possible? By access I mean control apps etc...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
You could try AirDroid.
Install on Tablet, then access via the browser on your phone...
There are 2 Apps:
RemoDroid
Tablet Remote
But both are pretty slow and worthless..
Tablet Remote is probably the better of the two, speed and reliability wise, but basic
Think both require root, but maybe just RemoDroid.. not sure...
You could also try Installing VNC Server on your Tablet, then a VNC Viewer on your phone..
Would probably work better the other way around since your Tablet is larger.
I'd give a try to a vnc, as it has already been suggested
Remote control the tablet from the phone.
This won't be a typical RDC setup. I love Jump desktop but it won't do this unless he sets up a RDC server.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
By far the best in my experience is Teamviewer. A personal license is completely free with no ads, and it works great with both Windows 7 and 8. I do not own any Macs and I am not running Linux at the moment so I cannot speak for how well it works on those platforms, but I really recommend you give Teamviewer a try.
I have a Nexus 10 and I am tired of android and I'm going to sell it and get a windows RT tablet (probably the just anounced Nokia 2520). The only things I do with my tablet is download comics from my computer (*.cbr files) and then put them on my tablet and read them and also internet browsing. Can I do these things with a windows RT tablet? Is there a file manager to put the files to the tablet from the PC? Is there a comic book reader app? How smoothly does it show the pages changing in a comic book? If someone could help me with this I would be really greatful.
eltarod said:
I have a Nexus 10 and I am tired of android and I'm going to sell it and get a windows RT tablet (probably the just anounced Nokia 2520). The only things I do with my tablet is download comics from my computer (*.cbr files) and then put them on my tablet and read them and also internet browsing. Can I do these things with a windows RT tablet? Is there a file manager to put the files to the tablet from the PC? Is there a comic book reader app? How smoothly does it show the pages changing in a comic book? If someone could help me with this I would be really greatful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a couple of CBR readers in the store and yes there is a full file manager in Windows RT. It is pretty similar to windows 8 in that regard. I would actually suggest though that you sync the files from your PC to SkyDrive and then Sync them down to RT.
When you with skydrive can you select the exact folder you want to put the files in the tablet?
You cannot connect a windows RT tablet to a PC directly with a USB cable as with android tablets. But windows RT is a near full port of windows 8. So you get the regular windows 8 file browser, regular internet explorer file download abilities. Skydrive can sync your files as already mentioned. Or a simple USB memory stick plugged into your PC, copy files onto it, plug it into your RT, copy files off of it. And network file servers work too.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
You cannot connect a windows RT tablet to a PC directly with a USB cable as with android tablets. But windows RT is a near full port of windows 8. So you get the regular windows 8 file browser, regular internet explorer file download abilities. Skydrive can sync your files as already mentioned. Or a simple USB memory stick plugged into your PC, copy files onto it, plug it into your RT, copy files off of it. And network file servers work too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh great!! Then it will defenetly do for that part.. So my only question left if possible from someone to answer.. Do the comic book reader apps lags while changing pages of the comic? Can anyone confirm this?
eltarod said:
Oh great!! Then it will defenetly do for that part.. So my only question left if possible from someone to answer.. Do the comic book reader apps lags while changing pages of the comic? Can anyone confirm this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No if you go for the Surface 2.
I had a surface rt, note 10.1 and a xoom and i love reading comics, but to be honest i like more reading on a android
Android - perfect viewer
Surface rt - CBReader (i test all cbr readers and this one is the best)
Both work preatty good but on android is so much better. On android the autozoom and two fingers zoom is flawless in metro is some pain in the ass sometimes
Enviado desde mi Xoom usando Tapatalk 4
SixSixSevenSeven said:
You cannot connect a windows RT tablet to a PC directly with a USB cable as with android tablets.
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Click to collapse
Oh, in Dell XPS10 manual that was said to be possible, but was not working in real. I thought that's engineering fail in Dell, but really - other RT devices also can't be connected via USB? Even some RNDIS and ActiveSync (from WM) like behavior would be nice here...
kitor said:
Oh, in Dell XPS10 manual that was said to be possible, but was not working in real. I thought that's engineering fail in Dell, but really - other RT devices also can't be connected via USB? Even some RNDIS and ActiveSync (from WM) like behavior would be nice here...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the microUSB is charging only and on most tablets also USB host (use one of the old android USB OTG adaptors). Windows RT is almost a direct port of windows 8 to ARM. Windows does not support acting as a USB device, only USB host is supported. Windows NT (the kernel, or the very bottom layer of the operating system) does support USB device mode as windows phone 8 also uses the NT kernel and can be USB device, in theory they could have added a USB device mode driver to windows 8 but they didnt.
Instead though you can use a memory stick because well, its windows, or if you share a network drive from your main machine you can view it on the tablet, FTP clients are available too if you put an FTP server on your main system. Skydrive synchronisation, dropbox app, google drive in browser. Lots of ways of moving files.
Adding USB device mode would be a nice touch on their part though....
Alot of x86 chipsets don't support it though so on x86 tablets the cost factor of adding an external USB device mode chip may be a factor.
Well if your going for a lower price the $349 Asus t100 is also a good choice it runs complete windows 8.1 and comes with Microsoft office for free. The battery life is around 11 hour use and it comes with a free keyboard dock. You can run any x86 windows legacy applications on this device.
Sent from my LG D820
Kindness is a language the deaf can hear and the blind can see - Mark Twain
WarLion said:
Surface rt - CBReader (i test all cbr readers and this one is the best)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is this available in the store? couldnt find it.
eltarod said:
I have a Nexus 10 and I am tired of android and I'm going to sell it and get a windows RT tablet (probably the just anounced Nokia 2520). The only things I do with my tablet is download comics from my computer (*.cbr files) and then put them on my tablet and read them and also internet browsing. Can I do these things with a windows RT tablet? Is there a file manager to put the files to the tablet from the PC? Is there a comic book reader app? How smoothly does it show the pages changing in a comic book? If someone could help me with this I would be really greatful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are aware that android can browse the web, can read comics, has a file managers and can sync wirelessly with your windows PC, right?
tglaria said:
You are aware that android can browse the web, can read comics, has a file managers and can sync wirelessly with your windows PC, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows explorer is far better than any android file manager I have come across. Internet explorer as a windows web browser may not be the best but massively exceeds any mobile browser I have ever come across.
Any incase you didn't notice. He said he was tired of android.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Windows explorer is far better than any android file manager I have come across. Internet explorer as a windows web browser may not be the best but massively exceeds any mobile browser I have ever come across.
Any incase you didn't notice. He said he was tired of android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
YEs, I realised he is, but I've seen SO MANY people complaining that there's no file manager or can't do 'this' or 'that', that I have to ask.
I've been thinking of getting a tablet and I've been eyeing the Windows 8 tablets. Honestly, I like Android, but all of their tablets disappoint (I don't want a Nexus tablet or an iPad for that matter).
I keep hearing that RT marketplace is very small, that there are only "a few apps", etc. Is this true? I am not a heavy app user, plus I'll always have my phone (LG G2 btw, and it's amazing).
I use W8 on my desktop and I like it - but that's obviously the "full" version. I would also like to ask for a tablet recommendation (Nokia 2520 looks FANTASTIC by the way). I don't want to give more than $500 for a tablet, so then generally RT tablets come to mind. My only other requirement is at least a full HD screen. What would you suggest?
Deusdies said:
I've been thinking of getting a tablet and I've been eyeing the Windows 8 tablets. Honestly, I like Android, but all of their tablets disappoint (I don't want a Nexus tablet or an iPad for that matter).
I keep hearing that RT marketplace is very small, that there are only "a few apps", etc. Is this true? I am not a heavy app user, plus I'll always have my phone (LG G2 btw, and it's amazing).
I use W8 on my desktop and I like it - but that's obviously the "full" version. I would also like to ask for a tablet recommendation (Nokia 2520 looks FANTASTIC by the way). I don't want to give more than $500 for a tablet, so then generally RT tablets come to mind. My only other requirement is at least a full HD screen. What would you suggest?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well if its for your criteria of a full Desktop you are right - you can't do this with Windows RT, thus with no RT tablet. But as im using my Surface as a thin client, remoting my home pc or my server for all the stuff i can't do on my tablet it's quite wonderful. And the Windows Store has been incresing ever since, last week i reset me tablet and did some serious store browsing to get up to date with available apps and i probably couldn't find anthing that's not there - development environment and compilers excluded of course. But as far as i can see - not knowing your area of expertise - there is everything you would need to get a basic start, though some apps will cost a dollar/euro or two. Whatsmore, there is the 8.0 jailbreak, if you are willing not to go to 8.1 yet (don't know if the surface 2 gets delivered with 8.1 and you would need to downgrade) - in this case there are already a lot of ported desktop apps available.
Jailbreak and ported apps can be found here:
Jailbreak
Ported Desktop Apps
As for the Nokia 2520, it definitely looks good! Haven't actually seen this one come up, looks promising.
To sum it up: if what you like is the new Modern UI interface you can definitely go with an RT tablet for there are plenty of apps available. For the desktop that's a whole other story, as I've described (jailbreak/ported apps) - if you are willing to compromise, you will get another added benefit from this cool piece of hard- and software.
The decision which RT tablet to use should be yours i guess, there are quite a few out there, but in a matter of usability I deem them all to work the same.
Greetings,
Fasin
The app market you can check out on your full windows 8 machine no problem. I do personally think its a bit limited.
Windows RT is for all intents and purposes windows 8 running on ARM instead of x86 processors. This does bring a few limitations, and then microsoft impose 2 more.
ARM and x86 processors are rather obviously not compatible. x86 programs cannot run on ARM and vice versa normally (you could emulate an ARM CPU on x86 and vice versa but thats slow).
Most "metro" apps are compiled in both ARM and x86 versions. There are a few which are not for whatever reason. But most should be available in both stores. The vast majority of metro apps use C# or VB.net anyway which dont output native ARM or x86 machine code and instead use .NET bytecode (the .NET runtime is present on both windows 8 and windows RT). VLC is the only major exception I can think of right now, although that hasn't been publicly released yet and ARM is planned (right now its x86 only).
Just about all desktop software for windows is x86. It won't run on ARM. If its open source it may be portable however the only compiler capable of targetting Windows RT is MSVC whereas alot of software can only be built in alternative compilers. There is a list (already linked in the post above) of software which people have managed to recompile for Windows RT.
Then 2 microsoft imposed restrictions.
Drivers. Although windows tablets all have full USB host abilities, you do of course require drivers for all USB devices you want to use. Windows are not allowing 3rd party drivers on ARM, so if your USB device isn't listed on their compatibility chart it won't work. Mice, keyboards, USB storage, some printers and even the xbox 360 controller work.
Desktop requiring signed binaries. This is a major restriction which serves no purpose. All software run on windows RT must have a digital signature attached which will be checked before execution. If the signature is missing it won't run it. For store apps this isn't a problem as signing the app is part of the release process. However microsoft don't want us to use the desktop on windows RT devices, they havent released any way to add the signature to software running on the traditional desktop. MS Office, internet explorer and all the other software that runs in desktop mode and is preinstalled on RT has been signed because microsoft wrote it and have the tools to do so. We don't. There is a jailbreak which can remove this restriction and enable people to run desktop applications (either written in .NET or compiled for ARM) but it doesn't work on windows RT 8.1 which the lumia tablet and surface 2 have (they cannot be downgraded to 8.0). An 8.1 jailbreak is coming soon.
Whether the RT is suitable or not depends on your needs. If all your going to do is surf the web, well its full blown internet explorer 11 not some sucky mobile browser, it even has flash (but not java, which you should not confuse for javascript. However iOS and android dont have java either).
You get full RDP support in windows RT. So you can view the screen of and interact with your real windows 8 desktop remotely on the tablet. In the ported apps section for jailbroken devices there is also VNC which does the same thing but is cross platform unlike RDP which is supposed to just be windows (however there is an RDP server for linux too so if you have a linux machine, install the RDP server, remote access it on non jailbroken RT device no problem).
You get microsoft office. Its missing plugins and macros. But otherwise, its a full office suite. Its more than android or iOS have.
Being close enough to normal windows, you get a full file browser which supports network mapped drives and USB etc as you do on your desktop. Android can have file browsers, but they usually arent as good as a desktop file browser. iOS doesnt have a file browser at all.
With the file browser you have support for USB storage. Got some photos on a memory stick, plug it in, you can view them. iOS cannot do this. Some android phones can, some can't (your LG should be able to).
True there are not as many apps as iOS or android. But both iOS and android had low apps counts when they first released and according to what little public data there is, windows after 1 year is about on par with both android and iOS app counts after 1 year. It takes time (but will it take too long is a better question)
Thank you both very much. Very well thought out responses. I was debating between getting the Dell Venue 11 Pro (full Windows 8) or the Nokia 2520 being as that they're the same price, but I have honestly been convinced to get the RT version.
Fasin said:
Whatsmore, there is the 8.0 jailbreak, if you are willing not to go to 8.1 yet (don't know if the surface 2 gets delivered with 8.1 and you would need to downgrade) - in this case there are already a lot of ported desktop apps available.
Jailbreak and ported apps can be found here:
Jailbreak
Ported Desktop Apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh. My. Gott.
I had no idea that this even existed. I think this is pretty much what settles it - I'm definitely getting an RT. Notepad++? Python? 7-zip? Amazing! Vielen dank!
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Then 2 microsoft imposed restrictions.
Drivers. Although windows tablets all have full USB host abilities, you do of course require drivers for all USB devices you want to use. Windows are not allowing 3rd party drivers on ARM, so if your USB device isn't listed on their compatibility chart it won't work. Mice, keyboards, USB storage, some printers and even the xbox 360 controller work.
Desktop requiring signed binaries. This is a major restriction which serves no purpose. All software run on windows RT must have a digital signature attached which will be checked before execution. If the signature is missing it won't run it. For store apps this isn't a problem as signing the app is part of the release process. However microsoft don't want us to use the desktop on windows RT devices, they havent released any way to add the signature to software running on the traditional desktop. MS Office, internet explorer and all the other software that runs in desktop mode and is preinstalled on RT has been signed because microsoft wrote it and have the tools to do so. We don't. There is a jailbreak which can remove this restriction and enable people to run desktop applications (either written in .NET or compiled for ARM) but it doesn't work on windows RT 8.1 which the lumia tablet and surface 2 have (they cannot be downgraded to 8.0). An 8.1 jailbreak is coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, that truly is an odd restriction. Perhaps they just want people to use Windows Store more and more? But from this thread it seems that Jailbreak "fixes" a lot of issues - and I didn't even know this existed until now (admittedly I wasn't into the Windows 8 on mobile devices a whole lot until now).
Yep, I think my only pseudo-concern is now gone. Thank you again both, and Nokia 2520 - here I come!
Well, the jailbreak isnt out for 8.1 and is still more limited than the bay trail in the venue 11. But its one of those things that can only go uphill from here.
My personal choice would be the venue. But thats me, not you. I do a fair bit of programming and use alot of software that just plain isnt available on RT. And I think thats the point, different devices suit different people in different ways.
BestBuy will have Surface RT for $200 in Black Friday. I'd like to buy one since it is such cheap and I can play with some ARM Win32 programs.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Well, the jailbreak isnt out for 8.1 and is still more limited than the bay trail in the venue 11. But its one of those things that can only go uphill from here.
My personal choice would be the venue. But thats me, not you. I do a fair bit of programming and use alot of software that just plain isnt available on RT. And I think thats the point, different devices suit different people in different ways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do quite a bit of programming myself (both personally and for my work), but I can never picture myself programming on a tablet (or even a tablet/keyboard combo). That's just not what I'm getting the tablet for.
I've just read Engadget's review of Nokia 2520, which is overall positive. But I thought it would be much better than the Surface 2, and apparently (according to their review), it isn't. In fact, I thought it will have a better battery life, while in fact it has worse.
As a student I also get a 10% discount on Surface only, and I have a $25 Microsoft Store gift card that I got eons ago, so that brings the total cost for a Surface 2 down to ~$370, which is phenomenal.
It's still in between Nokia 2520 and Surface 2...
Deusdies said:
I do quite a bit of programming myself (both personally and for my work), but I can never picture myself programming on a tablet (or even a tablet/keyboard combo). That's just not what I'm getting the tablet for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
ThorburnJ said:
To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do program on a laptop with a 14" 1366*768 display. I have used much higher resolution displays though and it is certainly alot better.
ThorburnJ said:
To be honest even a laptop is less than ideal - if you're used to working on a multi-monitor desktop setup then a laptop will feel restrictive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep... I do all of my programming on a desktop. At work 3 monitors, at home 1, but 27". So, yes, tablet is just for movies, some games, etc.
It is possible to emulate some x86 programs on RT's ARM processor, however often it will be slow. Most desired programs won't run through emulation (including utorrent, VLC, Steam, etc)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2095934
Doesn't Microsoft forbid metro apps from having native binaries?
If so, how would you ever write something like a wii emulator on today's hardware? It would be way too slow. Perhaps two decades from now?
Rakeesh_j said:
Doesn't Microsoft forbid metro apps from having native binaries?
If so, how would you ever write something like a wii emulator on today's hardware? It would be way too slow. Perhaps two decades from now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No...
Many "metro" apps are normal C/C++ compiled natively for the processor itself.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
No...
Many "metro" apps are normal C/C++ compiled natively for the processor itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh. Then what was with MS's comments that they deliberately wanted to make metro apps limited? They can't just mean in terms of being sandboxed? You can still sandbox without sacrificing utility; Android does that quite well.
Rakeesh_j said:
Oh. Then what was with MS's comments that they deliberately wanted to make metro apps limited? They can't just mean in terms of being sandboxed? You can still sandbox without sacrificing utility; Android does that quite well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
trying to start flamewars again...
SixSixSevenSeven said:
trying to start flamewars again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's very much on topic. If the goal was to start a flame war, then the OP beat me to it a long time ago.
Kindly point out something an android app can do which a windows app cannot (there are some, I personally wanted to use a certain feature but until 8.1 could not, yeah 8.1 added loads more features)
Apps requiring root do not count as root is a device modification much the same way modified RT devices can do more.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Kindly point out something an android app can do which a windows app cannot (there are some, I personally wanted to use a certain feature but until 8.1 could not, yeah 8.1 added loads more features)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly I don't know as I've never published any apps and I've only done very small scale development for my own uses. I'm just going by MS's commentary on where they think they went wrong with their 8 strategy, in which they indicate that they believe making apps limited in scope wasn't a mistake (effectively they believe that their marketing was the reason for RT's failure, and that it will be easier to market 2 OSes instead of 3.)
I do know however that you see some pretty complex applications on Android whereas I haven't seen anything on RT hasn't already been done better in a web browser. In fact, I've seen web browsers do things that RT will not, take for example that version of battlefield which runs in Firefox and Chrome (RT could technically do that, granted.) The most complicated emulator available for RT is for snes, which also can be done in FF and Chrome: http://www.b81.org/~tjw/smw/
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Apps requiring root do not count as root is a device modification much the same way modified RT devices can do more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really see it that way. Just issue an 'oem unlock' command to the device and you're golden. RT devices however by design forbid doing anything like that.
That said, the ultimate limitation in RT comes from this: RT won't run any app unless MS explicitly greenlights it. A lot of the more interesting apps (to me anyways) are ones that companies like MS and in some circumstances even Google wish didn't exist at all, like ad blockers, being able to tether without carrier permission, etc. Even so, not all of these require root and there's nothing stopping you from using them on Android.
Rakeesh_j said:
Honestly I don't know as I've never published any apps and I've only done very small scale development for my own uses. I'm just going by MS's commentary on where they think they went wrong with their 8 strategy, in which they indicate that they believe making apps limited in scope wasn't a mistake (effectively they believe that their marketing was the reason for RT's failure, and that it will be easier to market 2 OSes instead of 3.)
I do know however that you see some pretty complex applications on Android whereas I haven't seen anything on RT hasn't already been done better in a web browser. In fact, I've seen web browsers do things that RT will not, take for example that version of battlefield which runs in Firefox and Chrome (RT could technically do that, granted.) The most complicated emulator available for RT is for snes, which also can be done in FF and Chrome: http://www.b81.org/~tjw/smw/
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Then if you don't know, then why are you claiming it to be so poor in comparison to android? What apps *are available* doesnt dictate what apps the system is capable of.
In 8.0 the biggest issues were lack of low level interfaces to peripherals and instead being limited to high level wrappers provided by WinRT. In 8.1 there are now WinRT wrapper classes to raw USB and bluetooth, both of which were absent in 8.0. Besides that, there isn't any OpenGL, but there is DirectX which android doesnt have and serves the same purpose.
WIndows 8 apps are perfectly capable of hosting a first person shooter such as battlefield, there is a massive difference between it being incapable and simply not been done (actually there are FPS games, but they are more inline with the crap you see on android).
Your battlefield example is entirely bull**** either way as you seemed to be arguing for android whereas android doesnt have battlefield either.
Even if microsoft ditched windows RT, the store is part of windows 8. It would still be present. Windows RT is just an ARM port of windows 8. WinRT is the so called "sandbox" store apps run in and is present on both operating systems.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Then if you don't know, then why are you claiming it to be so poor in comparison to android? What apps *are available* doesnt dictate what apps the system is capable of.
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Two things:
Comments I've heard from developers
And most importantly, Microsoft's own comments
SixSixSevenSeven said:
In 8.0 the biggest issues were lack of low level interfaces to peripherals and instead being limited to high level wrappers provided by WinRT. In 8.1 there are now WinRT wrapper classes to raw USB and bluetooth, both of which were absent in 8.0. Besides that, there isn't any OpenGL, but there is DirectX which android doesnt have and serves the same purpose.
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That later bit is more of a reason to not want RT. Virtually every platform out there uses OpenGL. The number of devices that use directx exclusively make up such a small percentage of the marketplace that it almost may as well not even exist. Android wouldn't gain anything at all by having it (really, no developer out there has ever said "I'd port to Android if only it supported directx,") and it really hurts that RT/WP don't have it. For this reason, any developer who says that they'll only use DirectX is shooting themselves in the foot. Microsoft is doing exactly that - too many games developers said they probably wouldn't ever bother porting anything to RT/WP because they don't want to spend all of the money on porting because the revenue gained is almost guaranteed to not be worth it. Sure, some game engines now support it, but that doesn't solve the problem of backporting their own customizations and additions to the base engine.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
WIndows 8 apps are perfectly capable of hosting a first person shooter such as battlefield, there is a massive difference between it being incapable and simply not been done (actually there are FPS games, but they are more inline with the crap you see on android).
Your battlefield example is entirely bull**** either way as you seemed to be arguing for android whereas android doesnt have battlefield either.
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That's probably because you missed the point entirely. It has nothing to do with whether or not battlefield is an FPS. The point is that I've seen web browsers do more impressive things than RT apps. Battlefield is merely an example of why even Chrome is more valuable to me than RT.
SixSixSevenSeven said:
Even if microsoft ditched windows RT, the store is part of windows 8. It would still be present. Windows RT is just an ARM port of windows 8. WinRT is the so called "sandbox" store apps run in and is present on both operating systems.
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You aren't telling me anything new here. Microsoft has done something similar more than once and we've already seen the results: It'll just go derelict and then eventually deprecated but still kept around.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if MS created an app store for win32 apps similar to what apple is doing with OSX. Their current store model is just a flat out knockoff of the ios app model (contrast to the play store model where each publisher is at their own discretion, and some people still wonder why android/play is by far more popular than the rest) so they may as well go all the way with it.
I know this question will come with some confused comments and answers... so Ill ask the question and qualify my question with some examples why I am asking and of what I am not asking.
Question: What is the likelihood of getting/shoehorning Full x86 Windows 10 (or 8.1 until 10 releases) onto this phone?
Qualifying statements:
1. I am not asking about Windows Phone OS at all. Everyone knows Microsoft screwed the pooch during their shift from Windows Mobile 6.5 to Windows Phone 7 then again from Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8. That is why so many of us jumped ship from Microsoft's Phone offerings over to Android in 2010. This is 5 years later and Microsoft might be able to get some market share back, but only if they pull their head out of their a$$....
2. (Example of irrelevant answer... Why do you want full Windows when there is Win RT or WinPho???lol!!!!LMFAO!!!! TrolllFACE!!!)
There are plenty of usage cases to justify full x86 Windows on a mobile device. Microsoft and Intel are pushing on the tablet market but for some reason they have not begun to crack the phone market with Full WinTel.... Simply put, If someone is willing to pick up a Windows 8.1 x86 tablet with 1GB or 2GB of RAM for $200 or $300 bucks then they should be ok picking up a similar device with 4GB of RAM and the ability to make calls.
3. (Another example of irrelevant answer...But Android!!!! It rulz!!!)
First off I am an avid android user. We started with My wife and I getting the EVO 4G in 2010, then EVO 3D in 2011 (I know...), then Note 2 in 2012, and My wife switching out the Note 2 for the Huawei Ascend Mate 2 last year. Im holding on to my Note 2 for the final stretch with its 9300 mAh Zero Lemon battery. All phones we've gotten have been rooted and customized by me. I use Bluestacks and/or Andy OS on all of my Windows PCs and have owned several Android Tablets. In short I prefer Android over Windows phone and iOS and whatever else is out there... Now in saying that, I feel a full Windows device in a phone with sufficient processor and RAM would be able to run Windows as its main OS and Android as an emulator to satisfy my Android needs.
Very well put, I'm also interested in this.
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Also interested in this!
I think this needs Microsoft's direct support. IMHO these are some blockades the community will be met with:
1. Since Android uses a boot.img as stage2, some work have to be done for the boot image to be able to chainload Windows. Vanilla installation goes out of the equation.
2. Figuring out how to chainload a proprietary OS properly is, well, hard.
3. It seems like the device uses some special Intel modem and wireless chipset. Porting won't be easy (Look at Intel PRO...)
4. Although 5.5in is GIGANTIC for a phone, maybe explorer or metro won't be able to fit in it?
5. Onboard storage is lackluster to host a full desktop Windows.
6. Windows doesn't even have a dialer.
But generally, this is a great idea! Being able to run x86 apps on a phone, oh the feels!
I'd be very interested if it would run full x86 or x64 Windows! However as stated, I doubt that will happen.
Even then it would be a bit limited and the main issue I would imagine to be space. The screen is quite small for a 1080p window to display on. I'd want to probably run a 720p res for larger buttons and such, might fit a bit better.
Perhaps if you could have it all run off a memory card, but then it would be rather slow to boot and cache stuff?
Here check out this small presentation. Something could be possible with the virtualization extensions that intel processor has.
This totally depends on :
- how well Asus releases the source code.
- Bootloader unlockable or not, i.e. ways to work around the secure boot.
I tried similar things on Lenovo K900 which is running Z2580. Lenovo's open source release was just horrible since even building the kernel was difficult due to lack of info.
I was able to eventually built the kernel with KVM enabled, but was having trouble signing the kernel for the bootloader.
Just force loading the kvm.ko was not successful either since the stock kernel had some feature missing required by KVM.
I would be interested to work on this phone again if we can form a group.
kazuken said:
Here check out this small presentation. Something could be possible with the virtualization extensions that intel processor has.
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chinabull said:
This totally depends on :
- how well Asus releases the source code.
- Bootloader unlockable or not, i.e. ways to work around the secure boot.
I tried similar things on Lenovo K900 which is running Z2580. Lenovo's open source release was just horrible since even building the kernel was difficult due to lack of info.
I was able to eventually built the kernel with KVM enabled, but was having trouble signing the kernel for the bootloader.
Just force loading the kvm.ko was not successful either since the stock kernel had some feature missing required by KVM.
I would be interested to work on this phone again if we can form a group.
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sure we can start a group on slack.com
some other things that also come to my mind:
wine for x86
docker for x86
debian chroot
wine already has some ARM support
This would likely be much easier... Notice the 'high end' system reqs?
http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet/operators-and-oems
I think the biggest problem for Windows would be wrestling with the PowerVR-based gpu.. Those stupid things are usually a roadblock in just about every interesting project..
kazuken said:
sure we can start a group on slack.com
some other things that also come to my mind:
wine for x86
docker for x86
debian chroot
wine already has some ARM support
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Sorry for ressurecting this old thread but you would definitely be able to run Linux X86 on chroot. Then through wine you'd be able to run a lot of windows apps. Only issue is that performance would be low *unless* you'd output the GUI to android's framebuffer (FB0) which would require a kernel supporting this (outputting to framebuffer) which in turn would need Asus releasing the kernel sources so that to bake FB support.
So yeah it's all doable even with relatively good performance and by outputting the image (through MHL or chromecast) into the big screen would give us a X86 PC on the go. In fact I'd prefer it from running windows X86 natively because then you'd be losing calls and notifications... Imagine your *phone* running all your PC's software (well almost all as wine often has issues). You can buy one of those 128gb micro sds and your "phone" would have plenty of space for your (PC) data...
Stevethegreat said:
Sorry for ressurecting this old thread but you would definitely be able to run Linux X86 on chroot. Then through wine you'd be able to run a lot of windows apps. Only issue is that performance would be low *unless* you'd output the GUI to android's framebuffer (FB0) which would require a kernel supporting this (outputting to framebuffer) which in turn would need Asus releasing the kernel sources so that to bake FB support.
So yeah it's all doable even with relatively good performance and by outputting the image (through MHL or chromecast) into the big screen would give us a X86 PC on the go. In fact I'd prefer it from running windows X86 natively because then you'd be losing calls and notifications... Imagine your *phone* running all your PC's software (well almost all as wine often has issues). You can buy one of those 128gb micro sds and your "phone" would have plenty of space for your (PC) data...
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I tried it out. you can get GNUroot and GNUroot wheezy x86 on play store. I was able to get fluxbox with tightvncserver running (though no apps, but was able to get an image in vnc) i am now going to try lxde and then see if nomachine 4.0 will work. wine should be able to run photoshop cs2.
kazuken said:
I tried it out. you can get GNUroot and GNUroot wheezy x86 on play store. I was able to get fluxbox with tightvncserver running (though no apps, but was able to get an image in vnc) i am now going to try lxde and then see if nomachine 4.0 will work. wine should be able to run photoshop cs2.
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Problem with running your gui on a VNC server is that it is slow. It's (far) easier to setup though.
On my android machines I prefer to (basically) output an X Server window on the (machine's) frame buffer. You get real time performance (almost the same as if you had installed the OS natively), plus you get sound which is useful if one wants to run sound and video editing software (or plainly listen to music ). It's (quite) harder to setup but it has all been streamlined lately by a play store app named linuxdeploy (IIRC it has added X86 distros support lately).
Yeah... Don't use vnc, use xserver-xsdl . It's in the app store. Best Android X server. In your chroot, export DISPLAY=:0 after starting it up.
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ycavan said:
Yeah... Don't use vnc, use xserver-xsdl . It's in the app store. Best Android X server. In your chroot, export DISPLAY=:0 after starting it up.
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That's a great solution too! Hadn't thought to recommend it. It's easy to setup too.
Still outputting directly to framebuffer instead of an xserver app is quite faster (even than that!). But I'd expect the Xserver-XSDL performance to be quite good too.
OMG, this is SO interesting. I have been looking forward to put windows desktop in my phone since ages. Virtualization never let you go any further than Winxp. But now, this is another story. I am thinking of getting one of my own to help with the testing
Keep it up guys!
I ran photoshop cs2, via xserver xsdl, takes a while to load but eventually does, but its very hard to drag windows via xserver xsdl. i tried with vnc and was able to open a picture taken from the zenfone's camera and adjust levels. its alot easier to use a physical mouse and keyboard. but here are some screenshots of it running all on the android. it took brute force to create the x with the paintbrush and to drag a window. I ran it at 720p, also at 1080p. photoshop loads a lot quicker using xserver xsdl vs vnc.
You can change mouse settings when you start up xserver-xsdl. By default it's set up like the screen is a laptop touch pad.
The other thing you might want to try is a different Windows manager. I prefer fvwm2 since it's very light.
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*irrelevant reply alert*
This takes me back to running Linux on the Windows-based XDA Exec. Those were the days.
Anyway, this is a great idea and you're finding some interesting workarounds, but I think you should be looking to get Windows to run natively. Sure, it doesn't have a dialler, but I'm sure someone can hook something up - especially if the interface is anything like the old Voice Modems from when we could only get our internets at 56kbps. (You kids don't know you're born! In my day, etc)
Meanwhile, in the Enterprise world where we try to reduce the costs of people having a whole processor each that they carry around with them, we're looking at using PCoIP to deliver a PC experience on a tablet. Sure, it's a little laggy (we're talking milliseconds on WiFi, though) but you get a lot of processing power, and if you're using Amazon you'll get NVidia rendering too. That's more for workstation graphics - CAD etc, rather than gaming. But then, if you're looking at installing Windows on a Phone, you're probably not going to be trying to play GTA5 on it.
Again, this reply is irrelevant because I realise you probably don't want to shell out $20-$40 per month on a virtual machine with a full Office suite. Plus, it's less fun to play with and not quite as much of an achievement to have set up something that works out of the box.
Native Linux 64 bit maybe, you get a much better OS, customizable, better resources management, open source, faster and waste less battery plus you can create your own mobile friendly interface just like Ubuntu Touch. Someone said it might be possible to port dialer, modem and other driver's concept since android is linux based. Microsoft is a handicapped development private code and as linux creator affirmed, its therefore a crappy OS lol There is steam on linux and it can run OpenGL games faster with the same hw due to uncluttered OS.
The hardest part will be GPU acceleration.
aziz07 said:
Native Linux 64 bit maybe, you get a much better OS, customizable, better resources management, open source, faster and waste less battery plus you can create your own mobile friendly interface just like Ubuntu Touch. Someone said it might be possible to port dialer, modem and other driver's concept since android is linux based. Microsoft is a handicapped development private code and as linux creator affirmed, its therefore a crappy OS lol There is steam on linux and it can run OpenGL games faster with the same hw due to uncluttered OS.
The hardest part will be GPU acceleration.
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The .Net Framework is already Open Source. It's likely Windows 10 will go Open Source at some point. It's said to be the "last version of Windows" - probably similarly to the way MacOS X hasn't been replaced with MacOS XI. (There will still be a market for desktops when we have 128bit CPUs, and they won't just stick with the same 64bit kernel.)