Let me start off by saying I was one of the people who were kind of scared about this myth when it first came to light. But then I used a bit of common sense in the matter and now i'm 100% sure this doesn't exist, at least on the Galaxy S III. Let me explain why:
The current myth is: Your NFC/Secure Element will cease to function properly if you don't wipe Google Wallet settings before flashing a ROM.
Let's just say you're on a stock ROM, and you happen to do a factory reset, which is about half the same as flashing a ROM. The same goal is accomplished, your /data partition gets wiped so that you can start over. The only difference being that /system doesn't get touched when doing a factory reset from a stock OR custom ROM. Flashing a ROM in recovery however will usually wipe your /system partition. Data wiping is still left up to YOU. Now that we know factory resetting and flashing a new ROM are almost the same, in that they both usually end up with you wiping your data, let's move along.
I'm sure Google and various OEMs wouldn't make the NFC chip or your secure element that easy to break from a "factory reset." This is a function that's available on every Android phone, and people do it all of the time.
Most ROMs will only wipe /system. Now you have to ask yourself what /system has to do with the NFC chip/Secure Element. Especially if in Stock situations the /system partition is R/O (read only). Are there NFC specific files for your particular device stored on your /system partition? No. But then again, those who have had issues with Google Wallet after a flash I can only assume either flashed a ROM that made other changes to the phone, or that particular phone had NFC issues to begin with.
Now, I'm not discounting the probability of this issue being present on the Galaxy Nexus, as I don't own that phone or know how its NFC chip operates or how sensitive it is. However, this issue does NOT exist on the Galaxy S III. Being a 'developer' of ROMs has of course made me have to flash numerous times to test things out on my ROM, all of which have been done with a wiping of /data and none of them have been done with a wiping of Google Wallet data. Now before you say "Well, you've been flashing the same ROM over and over again." This is true for the most part. However, I DID try CM9 and CM10 for a short time as well and my Google Wallet functions just fine, and with the latest update, I just added all of my current credit cards and debit card. I have purchased numerous things from CVS and McDs between the time I first bought my phone (stock) and now (rooted and flashed a lot of times). So those of you who are scared you're going to forget wiping your Google Wallet settings, don't be. It will have no effect on your ability to use NFC in the future.
That is all!
Excellent Write Up.
I'm really glad you cleared this up. I was difinitely one of the ones scared I was gonna for get to clear my wallet before I flash because I do flash so often and use wallet a lot.
Happy now yousefak.
gaunt_let said:
I'm really glad you cleared this up. I was diffiantly one of the ones scared I was gonna for get to clear my wallet before I flash because I do flash so often and use wallet a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/
Happy now yousefk?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i lol'd
The data that the old versions of Google Wallet kept were stored on the secure element. The secure element has its own OS; it is separate from Android. Right now, only Google Wallet has access to the secure element (perhaps some other Google-approved applications, too, and perhaps adb commands, though I'm not 100% on that one).
You also seem to be assuming that flashing a ROM or wiping your phone without resetting wallet will result in a locked secure element 100% of the time. This is not the case. I too had flashed my Galaxy Nexus without resetting Wallet many times back in November; nothing happened. We're not 100% certain of the conditions that cause the secure element to self-destruct, but it definitely happens. The Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S3 use the same NFC chip, so, if your galaxy S3's secure element believes it's being tampered with -- as is the case sometimes when people flash without resetting Wallet (leaving residual information behind) -- it too will destroy itself.
That's why people who are savvy with the issue advised the community to always reset Wallet before a flash or reset. We don't know the specific conditions that cause it, but it's better to be safe than having to get a new phone.
NFC Guy said:
The data that the old versions of Google Wallet kept were stored on the secure element. The secure element has its own OS; it is separate from Android. Right now, only Google Wallet has access to the secure element (perhaps some other Google-approved applications, too, and perhaps adb commands, though I'm not 100% on that one).
You also seem to be assuming that flashing a ROM or wiping your phone without resetting wallet will result in a locked secure element 100% of the time. This is not the case. I too had flashed my Galaxy Nexus without resetting Wallet many times back in November; nothing happened. We're not 100% certain of the conditions that cause the secure element to self-destruct, but it definitely happens. The Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S3 use the same NFC chip, so, if your galaxy S3's secure element believes it's being tampered with -- as is the case sometimes when people flash without resetting Wallet (leaving residual information behind) -- it too will destroy itself.
That's why people who are savvy with the issue advised the community to always reset Wallet before a flash or reset. We don't know the specific conditions that cause it, but it's better to be safe than having to get a new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this information. I wasn't aware that they used the same NFC chip. The reason why I believe that other things were at play and not just the flashing of ROMs is that a factory reset on a stock system would essentially accompilsh the same thing as flashing a new ROM. both ultimately wiping data. But I suppose with Stock, at least you're using the same version of wallet since /system doesn't get touched, where as other custom ROMs may use a different version of Wallet in their installs. This is the number one reason why I always remove Play Store installable apps from any ROM that I create. If you want them, you can download them yourself. Maybe that's one of the conditions that cause a secure element to believe it's being tampered with?
Outstanding edumacating going on here freeza and NFC guy. Had no clue nfc chips have their own is. This thread is the key reason I have been faithful to this place
I have read this twice, but am not sure I completely grasp the issue.
Right now I have wallet setup on my phone. I am on lg2 stock and rooted.
If I am reading this right, I can apply the LG8 update and modem through CMW, I will not have a problem with wallet?
There was just an article on Engadget (and I'm sure on other sites) that mention a new version of Google Wallet which allows for any card to be added as well as the secure element being moved to the cloud instead of locally on the device.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/01/google-wallet-moves-to-the-cloud-opens-up-to-all-credit-and-deb/
Does this mean that whatever state your secure element is in at this point won't matter (assuming the new Google Wallet app supports the device)?
Thanks for the write up, I also flashed several rom without resetting Wallet (by accident) and when I realized what I had done I was sweating bullets. I nandroided the first time I did that and Wallet worked.
The next time I flashed something I did not reset Wallet and decided to give it a try and it worked just fine. I never made a thread or told anyone that it was ok since I am no developer such as Freeza and others and I'm pretty sure I would have gotten the old XDA flaming if I did lol.
jbot said:
There was just an article on Engadget (and I'm sure on other sites) that mention a new version of Google Wallet which allows for any card to be added as well as the secure element being moved to the cloud instead of locally on the device.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/01/google-wallet-moves-to-the-cloud-opens-up-to-all-credit-and-deb/
Does this mean that whatever state your secure element is in at this point won't matter (assuming the new Google Wallet app supports the device)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was wondering the same thing
Bit of irony the wallet won't work at a Sprint Store.
I was on Clark's 0.7 rom and just flashed over to .8 as well as flashed a bunch of frameworks since i was trying to mod something. Of course I forgot to clear out my wallet but I just reinstalled it now and it seems to have set back up normal.
I had several flash scares where I would got between ICS and jelly I'd forget to clean wallet when I switch ROMs and reset. It all still worked sadly I can only get wallet to work at school but nowhere else
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
I can state that before the update that I received on August 1st for Google Wallet, I had my Citi Bank Mastercard in Google Wallet and performed a simple factory reset, since then I was unable to reload my card into Google Wallet. I exchanged my phone for a new one entered my CC information and within a minute Google Wallet was operating again with my Citi Bank Master Card.
The original phone was 1 week old, completely stock, never rooted, I even brought it to a Sprint corporate store that "re-flashed" the phone in an attempt to resolve the problem.
Now I don't know if the update to Google Wallet that I received on August 1st resolved the problem when performing a factory reset or not however the problem absolutely existed.
-TL
Time_Lord said:
I can state that before the update that I received on August 1st for Google Wallet, I had my Citi Bank Mastercard in Google Wallet and performed a simple factory reset, since then I was unable to reload my card into Google Wallet. I exchanged my phone for a new one entered my CC information and within a minute Google Wallet was operating again with my Citi Bank Master Card.
The original phone was 1 week old, completely stock, never rooted, I even brought it to a Sprint corporate store that "re-flashed" the phone in an attempt to resolve the problem.
Now I don't know if the update to Google Wallet that I received on August 1st resolved the problem when performing a factory reset or not however the problem absolutely existed.
-TL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good to know. now we need someone to bit the bullet on the post-update wallet.
freeza said:
Let me start off by saying I was one of the people who were kind of scared about this myth when it first came to light. But then I used a bit of common sense in the matter and now i'm 100% sure this doesn't exist, at least on the Galaxy S III. Let me explain why:
The current myth is: Your NFC/Secure Element will cease to function properly if you don't wipe Google Wallet settings before flashing a ROM.
Let's just say you're on a stock ROM, and you happen to do a factory reset, which is about half the same as flashing a ROM. The same goal is accomplished, your /data partition gets wiped so that you can start over. The only difference being that /system doesn't get touched when doing a factory reset from a stock OR custom ROM. Flashing a ROM in recovery however will usually wipe your /system partition. Data wiping is still left up to YOU. Now that we know factory resetting and flashing a new ROM are almost the same, in that they both usually end up with you wiping your data, let's move along.
I'm sure Google and various OEMs wouldn't make the NFC chip or your secure element that easy to break from a "factory reset." This is a function that's available on every Android phone, and people do it all of the time.
Most ROMs will only wipe /system. Now you have to ask yourself what /system has to do with the NFC chip/Secure Element. Especially if in Stock situations the /system partition is R/O (read only). Are there NFC specific files for your particular device stored on your /system partition? No. But then again, those who have had issues with Google Wallet after a flash I can only assume either flashed a ROM that made other changes to the phone, or that particular phone had NFC issues to begin with.
Now, I'm not discounting the probability of this issue being present on the Galaxy Nexus, as I don't own that phone or know how its NFC chip operates or how sensitive it is. However, this issue does NOT exist on the Galaxy S III. Being a 'developer' of ROMs has of course made me have to flash numerous times to test things out on my ROM, all of which have been done with a wiping of /data and none of them have been done with a wiping of Google Wallet data. Now before you say "Well, you've been flashing the same ROM over and over again." This is true for the most part. However, I DID try CM9 and CM10 for a short time as well and my Google Wallet functions just fine, and with the latest update, I just added all of my current credit cards and debit card. I have purchased numerous things from CVS and McDs between the time I first bought my phone (stock) and now (rooted and flashed a lot of times). So those of you who are scared you're going to forget wiping your Google Wallet settings, don't be. It will have no effect on your ability to use NFC in the future.
That is all!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm proud and embarrassed for a number of reasons here, but mainly for Mr.Freeza posting here while being extra lucid and drunk. I'm not embarrassed for the truth Mr.Freeza is speaking.
He's a top notch developer, and he should be regarded and revered as such most of the time. Just don't take everything has says literally - even though he may be speaking gibberish, he's trying to make a valid point. Blame the alcohol, if you want... He speaketh the truth, and don't you forget it.
And even though my intention is to slightly discourage this epic programmer from letting alcohol running his life, I'm only here to explain what he meant to say and acknowledge his genius.
He says:
1) Wiping /data partition is used in "Factory Restore" function of any rom. So simply wiping /data in recovery or a recovery update script cannot be responsible for losing Wallet functions, or any official rom would have this problem also. Of course, the assumption here is that "factory restore" does no more than wiping the /data partition. But it is a very reasonable assumption, as many people have wiped /data and retained Wallet functions.
2) Wiping /system partition is used in many custom roms. So simply wiping /system in recovery or a recovery update script cannot be responsible for losing Wallet functions, or any custom rom would have this problem also. And of course, many custom roms, which wipe /system partition, don't have any Wallet problems.
In other words, we still don't know why people lose their Wallet functions... But this is not *directly* related to just rooting and flashing custom roms.
freeza said:
Let me start off by saying I was one of the people who were kind of scared about this myth when it first came to light. But then I used a bit of common sense in the matter and now i'm 100% sure this doesn't exist, at least on the Galaxy S III. Let me explain why:
The current myth is: Your NFC/Secure Element will cease to function properly if you don't wipe Google Wallet settings before flashing a ROM.
Let's just say you're on a stock ROM, and you happen to do a factory reset, which is about half the same as flashing a ROM. The same goal is accomplished, your /data partition gets wiped so that you can start over. The only difference being that /system doesn't get touched when doing a factory reset from a stock OR custom ROM. Flashing a ROM in recovery however will usually wipe your /system partition. Data wiping is still left up to YOU. Now that we know factory resetting and flashing a new ROM are almost the same, in that they both usually end up with you wiping your data, let's move along.
I'm sure Google and various OEMs wouldn't make the NFC chip or your secure element that easy to break from a "factory reset." This is a function that's available on every Android phone, and people do it all of the time.
Most ROMs will only wipe /system. Now you have to ask yourself what /system has to do with the NFC chip/Secure Element. Especially if in Stock situations the /system partition is R/O (read only). Are there NFC specific files for your particular device stored on your /system partition? No. But then again, those who have had issues with Google Wallet after a flash I can only assume either flashed a ROM that made other changes to the phone, or that particular phone had NFC issues to begin with.
Now, I'm not discounting the probability of this issue being present on the Galaxy Nexus, as I don't own that phone or know how its NFC chip operates or how sensitive it is. However, this issue does NOT exist on the Galaxy S III. Being a 'developer' of ROMs has of course made me have to flash numerous times to test things out on my ROM, all of which have been done with a wiping of /data and none of them have been done with a wiping of Google Wallet data. Now before you say "Well, you've been flashing the same ROM over and over again." This is true for the most part. However, I DID try CM9 and CM10 for a short time as well and my Google Wallet functions just fine, and with the latest update, I just added all of my current credit cards and debit card. I have purchased numerous things from CVS and McDs between the time I first bought my phone (stock) and now (rooted and flashed a lot of times). So those of you who are scared you're going to forget wiping your Google Wallet settings, don't be. It will have no effect on your ability to use NFC in the future.
That is all!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha i remember this chat! Glad you made the write up. People need to know lol.
My suspicion (and only a suspicion) is that there is nothing wrong with the NFC "chip" but rather once you negotiate the security settings between Citi Bank and Google Wallet an encryption key is negotiated which is made out of a unique device identifier (NFC serial number?) and a pseudo random key. By issuing a factory reset on the phone it will in turn destroy the negotiated encryption key and that Citi Bank (or whoever holds the encryption key for the server) never destroys that key preventing any further authentication since the bank says that NFC # xyz's encryption key doesn't have what I have on file.
I'm guessing this will eventually be fixed but my past experience working with IT departments (as a vendor) at banks and other financial institutions tells me that they unless a current problem causes a security issue or allows fraud or theft, they are very slow to move and once a problem is positively identified it could easily take a year or more to provide a solution.
I don't have Google Wallet setup on my phone, I was just wondering how hard is it to actually clear all the settings in Google Wallet? If it's not that difficult and if you can always remember to clear it, wouldn't it be just easier to clear it before you flash? I guess that is if you can remember to clear it first!
Sometimes we get so excited about flashing a new ROM we don't always do what we're supposed too!
None-the-less, reading this still left me very confused on to do it or not to do it
What!
Can or should I install Google Wallet on a rooted phone?
No, we do not support Google Wallet on rooted phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT: RESOLVED, SEE BELOW
Preface, I'm currently using Jedi Master 16 / Android 4.1.2. I have not tested anything newer than this so this problem COULD potentially exist for 4.2 & 4.3 as well, but I have tried skipping directly to 4.4.
So far I have tried both Omni & SlimKat. In either case, after booting I have no cellular/data service and am unable to search for networks. When viewing the status info on the phone, my IMEI and Baseband versions show as "unknown", see attachment.
I have tried the two latest modems (including the new 4.3 modem) from both here and here.
I have tried using the 4.3/4.4 compatible DevilKernel2 as a solution as advised here.
I have tried flashing from both the latest CWM and TWRP (with selinux / 4.4 support).
I have tried toggling selinux to passive mode using this app, with all kernels.
I am on the old 4.1.2 bootloader with no Knox.
Restoring to 4.1.2 roms works fine, it is not a corrupt EFS like the symptoms may seem to indicate.
I am running out of possibilities, at this point the only thing I can think of is an incompatible bootloader version, though I would assume devilkernel would resolve the issue if that was the cause.
Anything else I am possibly missing?
update:
Official t-mobile 4.3 update (root/no knox) works fine, so it seems isolated to 4.4+ roms.
SOLUTION:
After installing the official 4.3 update I was able to perform a full wipe and update again to 4.4 roms, after which they worked just fine.
I understand you have tried selinux mode changer, did you give it enough time after boot? Using a root file Explorer try and replace or add a file to the system directory. Sometimes you will find although root apps appear to be functioning correctly you can't really change anything. In that case grab the updated supersu zip, think it's 1.8 currently flash it, then update from the market and it's binaries.
In the general section is a post I made that does solve the issue, as long as root access is indeed functioning properly.
Ducter said:
In that case grab the updated supersu zip, think it's 1.8 currently flash it, then update from the market and it's binaries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I neglected to mention this in my OP, but I have tried SuperSU as well as superuser, and have verified root is in fact working properly. I'm 100% out of ideas. I think it may be some information on the other partitions (the unlabeled ones). There is almost nothing else left to rule out, as far as I can see?
Same exact thing happen to me with omni rom ...I said skip it went back to Jedi.
Besides them romantic aren't even stable enuff to be daily drivers
Stay on 4.1.2 until 4.4 gets
some hefty development
Sent from my SGH-T889 using xda app-developers app
Hi,
I've taken all of the OTA updates up until June 2017. I have 6.0.1, May 1st 2017 Security Path Level and Baseband Version of N910VVRS2CQE1, Build Number of MMB29M.N910VVRS2CQE1.
Can I root and use a version of CM or go back to Kit Kat 4.4.4?
I'm hoping that I can still get some play out of the phone, it's incredibly slow. I've done a factory restore once or twice as well.
Thanks!
Have you tried looking through the various posts within the forum to find your answer? I just scrolled through and found a few without searching. Exerting a bit of effort could yield amazing results, at least that's what I've had happen over my years on here
bumperjeep said:
Hi,
I've taken all of the OTA updates up until June 2017. I have 6.0.1, May 1st 2017 Security Path Level and Baseband Version of N910VVRS2CQE1, Build Number of MMB29M.N910VVRS2CQE1.
Can I root and use a version of CM or go back to Kit Kat 4.4.4?
I'm hoping that I can still get some play out of the phone, it's incredibly slow. I've done a factory restore once or twice as well.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Verizon Note 4 is exactly at the same update level as yours and it is working great.
When you did the factory reset did you completely wipe all user data on both the phone and the SD card? If not I would give that a try.
I would also suggest that you not let Android restore any applications when you first start the phone after the factory reset. You could have an errant app causing problems. If it seems to work phone without any user installed apps I would then reinstall apps one by one and make sure the phone continues to work fine. It it starts to run incredibly slow again then the last app you installed is likely the culprit.
If these options don't work I would take the phone to a local Best Buy. Go to the Samsung Experience counter and talk to them. They can do a deep factory reset that will completely reinstall the firmware and thereby restore the phone to a pristine factory image.
If these options do not fix the problem you may be in the early stages of hardware failure. The Note 4 has developed a bad reputation for the motherboard slowly failing and causing progressively worse problems. That is what happened to me and the phone eventually became unusable. I finally had to contact Samsung technical support (1-800-SAMSUNG) and they had me send the phone in. They replaced the motherboard and other printed circuit boards. It did cost me $70 since the phone was out of warranty, but it works like new now.
Good luck. The Note 4 is still a great phone and worth the effort (and possibly cost) to get it fixed.
Can anyone confirm that Foxfi tethering works (not usb) on a non rooted Verizon Note 4 phone (marshmallows 6.0.1) with the following security update installed (mmb29m.n910vvrs2cqe1)
bumperjeep said:
Hi,
I've taken all of the OTA updates up until June 2017. I have 6.0.1, May 1st 2017 Security Path Level and Baseband Version of N910VVRS2CQE1, Build Number of MMB29M.N910VVRS2CQE1.
Can I root and use a version of CM or go back to Kit Kat 4.4.4?
I'm hoping that I can still get some play out of the phone, it's incredibly slow. I've done a factory restore once or twice as well.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah im thinking the problem is this phone came just packed with bloatware nobody uses a third of the garbage that came preloaded (200+ apps you use 10 of). You can root but you have to downgrade with odin back 5.1.1. bpa1 . you could also try a less invasive approach and just disable the bejeezus out of pretty much anything allowable there is an easy disable option that lets you do it in batches from the apps drawer. I did this to root the phone given the unstable root method.