Develop Bugs

are permsissions too obtuse for the average user?

i think guy brings up a good point and perhaps a decent solution. why not allow/encourage the dev's to explain a bit more. I'm a fairly adept nerd but when i'm installing an app sometimes i'm just not sure why in the world this app needs that permission...how is my mom or sister or anyone that i advocate Android to going to figure it out? why does this app need my coarse or fine location or full network access or access to the contact list etc...
and please do not say 'if you don't like what's listed, don't install the app'. that is exactly the point of this thread. the line items in the Review Permissions window don't always make sense. how can the average end user make a educated guess with the current system...they don't, they just start doing the same thing they do on their Windows Desktops...just click right on thru it. then what happens? some jerk writes a piece of malware. user has an issue. now its all androids fault. and viola, proof that linux based devices are still too geeky for avg use.
http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2010/08/14/android-permissions-malware.html

Unfortunately, there's no denying the cold, hard facts - ignorance is not bliss. Everything has a learning curve. Time and effort must be spent to educate users as to why <this> is happening and what it is doing for them. It's sad but true. Besides, if everything that required higher learning could be easily figured out I'm sure humanity would be freed from the shackles of poverty, war and hunger by now. So, yes, permissions are too obtuse for the average user. Unless they want to educate themselves on more generalized computing skills they'll never get it.
That's just my two cents. Sorry I couldn't be of better assistance

ok. so i wish to educate myself. please provide a full and detailed example listing why which permissions may be needed/used so that i will be able to make an educated choice. where is that link again?
i'm bringing up an issue...not asking for others to chime in and tell me how stoopid the end user base is. i'm an admin for over 10yrs. trust me ... i know. in this case i am also confused as are a large numer of folks. i understand the huge development curve android has experienced over the last 18mths. my concern is that if this issue is not addressed, even the folks that would take the time to read the Review Permissions page will give up. i know i have on more than one occasion. that's a bad trend.

Wow. You bring up a good point. Didn't mean to offend you or anything. I still don't have a good answer for you but I will let you know that I only install apps that I can trust usually after researching them via Google searches and talking about them with people here. I too am an admin (been a long, long 15 years now) and if there's 2 things I learned about recommending custom Android setups they are:
- If you think the user is going to use you as Wikipedia it's probably best to leave them at stock
and
- Only recommend this kind of stuff to users who are willing to accept responsibility for their actions otherwise you'll be the fall guy every time something goes wrong.
Again, I'm sure you know this and I didn't mean to offend you so..... bye.

Users can be pretty obtuse, and I think you're completely correct about the current permission system. However, I don't think it could be made much clearer without multiplying the number of permissions. Malware can exist because users consider certain permissions to be common. Conversely, apps with a good reputation can include permissions that make them wonder, "why would they need that?" Look at keyboards and how many people freak out when they go to enable them.
One thing that would be nice for users is if you could tap on a permission and the phone would display a short explanation of that permission. They probably aren't self explanatory for everyone.

beatblaster said:
- If you think the user is going to use you as Wikipedia it's probably best to leave them at stock
and
- Only recommend this kind of stuff to users who are willing to accept responsibility for their actions otherwise you'll be the fall guy every time something goes wrong.
Again, I'm sure you know this and I didn't mean to offend you so..... bye.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no offense. i do understand. there was a point in time where i used to openly provide paid tech support to home systems of my coworkers....it was a short point in time. lol. but i digress ... i may have come off too strong in my reply, i was just trying to prevent the thread from wandering off.
I've tried to post on this topic in the past but have not nothing useful. in and of itself, i find that kinda sad. I've even seen some folks suggest that people "take a trusting stance because most developers do not intend harm". i wish i could. but i'm out of college.
it would be wonderful if someone (ie: a google dev or just someone with knowledge of these things) were able to create a page that could give real world examples and general rules of thumb. currently i have only found a couple pages that cover a couple settings. not nearly enough to be of much use.

Saturn2K said:
One thing that would be nice for users is if you could tap on a permission and the phone would display a short explanation of that permission. They probably aren't self explanatory for everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concur.....I look at the permissions that apps ask for all the time. However, if I see a battery management app is asking me for full internet access and access to my contacts, I just pass on it. A lot of times you can figure out if an app is requesting bogus permissions just by using common sense.

rugedraw said:
I concur.....I look at the permissions that apps ask for all the time. However, if I see a battery management app is asking me for full internet access and access to my contacts, I just pass on it. A lot of times you can figure out if an app is requesting bogus permissions just by using common sense.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if your app is paid for by advertisements then it will need Internet Access so it can retrieve ads...thus paying the developer. often that's where i see 'coarse location' used as well...for regional specific ads. so in those cases, not nefarious use but a perfect example of what I'm talking about. thank you.

the problem with the current permissions system is twofold;
1) as mentioned, there is no details WHY or WHAT FOR a particular permission is required
2) its all or nothing, ie you can't give permission for network access and restrict access to contact list, etc. You have to accept all the requested permissions or deny and not install the app.

fwiw: There is an app in the market called "permissions" that tells you not only the permissions each app requires but it gets VERY specific. Within each permission category there is a whole list of specifics.
It won't help with apps you haven't installed yet but it's good info on the ones you already have.
*edit- Just revisited this app, it's not as detailed as I remember.

just a lil bump...

bumpity bump ...

nothing? at all?

[Q] Is 'Droid working strictly for us (and not for Google) possible?

Hi, guys!
Before I pose my question: I am really in awe of projects in the Open Source community style and this is soooooo good to see and experience (my other hobby is Sat TV "hacking" and so on... )!!!!!!!!!! :good: So, endless thanx and respect(!!!!) to all involved!!!!!!!!!!
Context: recently I managed to S-OFF my HTC Desire with 'Droid 2.2.2, then somehow I rooted it, 4EXT recovery/backup (if memory serves, the "touch" one) is in, in recovery mode I flashed the latest MIUI ROM (sorry if I misspelled it) with JB 4.1.2, improved the "radio" and so on... The one or two things that do not work - that I noticed - was no sending SMSs and poor video recording and reproduction. So, the search is continuing!
My question is - before I attempt the flashing of Paranoid Android ROM (how fitting, regarding my question! ) - is there a ROM that has kicked the living daylights out of Google corporate c*a#, please? As in, there is no stuff, in that would-be ROM, that constantly collects our data and sends it back to corporate and other commercial coders, please?
Because, as a matter of principle, we ought not to have to think of just how much data is going to corporation(s) and individuals coding apps etc. And from then on, to "authorities", of course. Not that I have anything to fear, in that respect - but it is the principle that is at stake here! Similar with Linux v. MacroHard and their "enlightened" attitude towards our privacy etc.
You know, we have a myriad of apps of all sorts, so I suppose we do not need Google's intrusion in all aspects of our interaction. I am perfectly happy, for instance, to use Firefox or Maxthon or Opera browser and get into my emails that way, not having to use the Google app for Gmail! I presume we could also have other apps to replace Google chat (presumably through Firefox in Gmail?) and so on and so forth. Really, I do not need Google's maps, when we have Open Street app and so on and on and on.
So, does this ROM exist, please? No Google/corporate/commercial stuff in it, that is...
And if not, has the time arrived?:angel: It is Linux, after all...
Would it be possible to make something like that?
Many thanx, again!
P.S. I recently bought a SuperPad tablet and I wonder if there are custom built ROMs/OSs for those, as well? Anyone knows, please?

Well of course any Rom without the Google apps.
Your principles on data collection went out the window when you first used the internet.

I disagree... respectfully, of course...
For instance, see BBC website for the "right to be forgotten" EU proposal on data collection/storage/handling... However, no such battle can ever be completely lost or won - they keep going on...
As a newby I have a problem with posting links but... let me try:
Code:
bbc co uk / news / technology-16677370
My Q was also re. full functionality without Google stuff - some ROM authors warn that their ROMs can't function properly unless we flash the Google stuff immediately after ROM itself... Any clarification, please?

goggysan said:
I disagree... respectfully, of course...
For instance, see BBC website for the "right to be forgotten" EU proposal on data collection/storage/handling... However, no such battle can ever be completely lost or won - they keep going on...
As a newby I have a problem with posting links but... let me try:
Code:
bbc co uk / news / technology-16677370
My Q was also re. full functionality without Google stuff - some ROM authors warn that their ROMs can't function properly unless we flash the Google stuff immediately after ROM itself... Any clarification, please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not to do with they cant function properly (they can) its just the fact that play store is "google" and u also need a gmail account. correct me if im wrong. Soo like dethrat says,.... its about gapps. (more or less).

It's not a matter of me thinking this is/you're wrong (on this one). I think/hope, that you are also hoping that I am right... Am I right?
You have a point, in a way, since it started in this manner with credit cards (easily done but also easily circumvented) and onwards but...
Look, ever tried Flipboard? I mean, if you are neglecting the examples I already wrote about... Check it and compare with Google Currents, please... Simply flipboard dot com... Need I say more?
On the level of principles: we do not need to be tethered/electronically tagged and under constant "surveillance" by Google or any other corporation or even the state, for that matter... Don't you think this is kinda worth at least trying? No offence intended to anyone(!) but I think this is the adult thing to do...:angel:
Well, this is what I am looking forward to nowadays... So, do you think that, for instance, a developer of Paranoid Android could make it all work with "alternative" apps, please? An effective "Ads Blocker" and kinda "No Script" apps included, of course. Maybe even - in this sense - "cleaned up" crucial apps, too... If "Anonymous" were really serious and competent (intellectually, professionally and morally), maybe they should get on it right away, eh? :angel:
I mean, if I ever requested anything from anyone on these boards, this would be it - an AIO OS without corporate [email protected]#. And I have a feeling that a fair few of us might keep trying this sort of thing out...:good:

Code:
bbc dot co dot uk / news / science-environment-21923360
Any more info on my question, please? Anyone with some experience?
Cheers!

So, the great WoH tells me that it is possible to use his ROM without the G-stuff, that is "Gapps" - and that everything should work just fine! And I am very grateful for this possibility! I only need to "skip the step with the gapps", he says.
Then, one proceeds with "3rd party app stores" like Amazon, GetJar, Fireplace and Yandex.Store. I presume there is an included browser in the ROM without the Gapps, so I start it and go to one of those sites, get their gadget and simply install from there, the free stuff... hopefully not having to log in with my Gmail account...
My problem, though, lies here in this thread - setting up PDroid. That's for seriously enhanced privacy/security! In the thread's "how to" there seem to be some discrepancies with the newer versions of PDroid... Really not sure how to do it, what exactly must be done, with which files... And I can't post in that section, to ask questions... Like "Where is the apk you mention in the top post?" and "What exactly are the steps?"
So, I must prepare by reading a lot, testing it and then redoing it, from scratch, i.e. flash the ROM again, as WoH described in his thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2131790
My hope would be that he includes the PDroid patch/apps - if at all possible - in the next edition of his awesome ROM!
Also, I would dearly love to see and test a ROM with all the best alternative apps, links to a few of the best 3rd party apps stores, tools etc. - but no G-c#@p (or almost no G-c#@p)... at least as much as humanly possible...
Here is a sketch:
3rd party apps stores,
keyboard and speech apps,
a couple of browsers (Firefox/Opera, maybe),
a few tools to manage the phone and set it up properly (Advanced Task Killer, Android Manager and alike),
best audio-visually capable Gtalk app and Skype for chat,
some non-demanding but good protection (Avast suite?),
Flipboard for news,
Adobe Reader, Kindle and Aldiko for reading,
MX and Meridian players for multimedia stuff,
Flash,
camera and videocam apps(?),
audio, video and photo editing SW,
Sopcast (TV channels) and "1Channel for Google" for audio-video streaming from the net,
...and so on,,, everybody continuing to fill it up according to their preferences, of course... all freeware/gratis!!!
Perhaps call it an "Alternative apps pack"???
So, maybe: when apps2sd card tool has been installed, we flash the "Alternative apps pack"... and it all goes to an SD card?
I think this might be a very cool idea, for many of us...
Go WoH and co.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :good:

Getting organized. AnoteHD vs. Snote vs. whatever

Hi guys
I Was Wondering if you could help me get organized.
like Many of you probably, I have both AnoteHD and Snote. And like Many of You again, I think a hybrid between the two would Work best. So I thought I Would share my Sentiments and ideas, and then we could look at the options and discuss apps.
I really like the UI of AnoteHD, but think it is very limited. Its Such a let down You cant even edit the position of the pictures you added once you drop them into a note. But otherwise I really like the folder options and stock note backgrounds.
Snote has a very comprehensive note taking/ making ability. However, its a little disappointing that you cannot group notes together or "bind them" after thier creation. this coupled with the boring and limited folder Method.
As far as calendar I like The way AnoteHD is setup or at least I think it is easier to work with, especially with to-do's which is the Majority of my interaction with this app. I feel as Though S planner May have potential but Just the fact it is giving me what seems like proprietary back talk about not syncing with my google calendar is annoying. Though I found a tread discussing that issue it seemed unclear to me if they resolved this issue. I tried as well and had no progress with it. Being able to draw on your calendar Seems like a relevant function and gives you more freedom than AnoteHD. Also, I believe S planner does not Show you past due tasks or upcoming tasks as Well as AnoteHD.
Some of the Useless functions between these two apps :
A-note HD: The ability to edit the creation date? (Is this for the procrastinater?)
Snote: All the different templates Seem a little Silly.
Is there away to Change the default search engine for the Knowledge Search from wolfalpha gram?
As far as other apps, I remember I Used to utilize Go launcher on my former HTC phone. However it Was Junked With Ads unless you paid for it. And to use their task app you need to Mask your Stock UI With theirs, which Im under the impression will eat More Memory and battery. If things have Changed With this app or you have another app to Recommend, please let me Know.
Tips and tricks are also Welcome.(please ease the random capitalizations) I'm interested to hear What works for You.

TheAndroid_isLearning said:
Hi guys
I Was Wondering if you could help me get organized.
like Many of you probably, I have both AnoteHD and Snote. And like Many of You again, I think a hybrid between the two would Work best. So I thought I Would share my Sentiments and ideas, and then we could look at the options and discuss apps.
I really like the UI of AnoteHD, but think it is very limited. Its Such a let down You cant even edit the position of the pictures you added once you drop them into a note. But otherwise I really like the folder options and stock note backgrounds.
Snote has a very comprehensive note taking/ making ability. However, its a little disappointing that you cannot group notes together or "bind them" after thier creation. this coupled with the boring and limited folder Method.
As far as calendar I like The way AnoteHD is setup or at least I think it is easier to work with, especially with to-do's which is the Majority of my interaction with this app. I feel as Though S planner May have potential but Just the fact it is giving me what seems like proprietary back talk about not syncing with my google calendar is annoying. Though I found a tread discussing that issue it seemed unclear to me if they resolved this issue. I tried as well and had no progress with it. Being able to draw on your calendar Seems like a relevant function and gives you more freedom than AnoteHD. Also, I believe S planner does not Show you past due tasks or upcoming tasks as Well as AnoteHD.
Some of the Useless functions between these two apps :
A-note HD: The ability to edit the creation date? (Is this for the procrastinater?)
Snote: All the different templates Seem a little Silly.
Is there away to Change the default search engine for the Knowledge Search from wolfalpha gram?
As far as other apps, I remember I Used to utilize Go launcher on my former HTC phone. However it Was Junked With Ads unless you paid for it. And to use their task app you need to Mask your Stock UI With theirs, which Im under the impression will eat More Memory and battery. If things have Changed With this app or you have another app to Recommend, please let me Know.
Tips and tricks are also Welcome.(please ease the random capitalizations) I'm interested to hear What works for You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why narrow it down to two apps? Have you tried LectureNotes for note taking or looked into the functions of Write? Also, which SNote version are you using? I much prefer the one ported from the Note 3 because it has the extra functionality however not everyone agrees.
Just a few thoughts.

CCallahan said:
Why narrow it down to two apps? Have you tried LectureNotes for note taking or looked into the functions of Write? Also, which SNote version are you using? I much prefer the one ported from the Note 3 because it has the extra functionality however not everyone agrees.
Just a few thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im interested so I'll check it out. I was rather more hoping this would turn into a discussion but I see it does not seem to strike a chord with anyone else. Either way thanks for the feed back. Ill give them a try.

TheAndroid_isLearning said:
Im interested so I'll check it out. I was rather more hoping this would turn into a discussion but I see it does not seem to strike a chord with anyone else. Either way thanks for the feed back. Ill give them a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might have better luck posting it in the "Themes and Apps" section. Just a thought.

CCallahan said:
You might have better luck posting it in the "Themes and Apps" section. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhh, I dont not even think of it. Since there was some personal gain for me as a result I put it in here. Maybe I'll repost or would a mod move it over if I asked?
Thanks,

[Help] Navdy HUD

Hello all,
Thank you for taking your time to read this post, I truly appreciate it. I have a Navdy HUD and have has it for around 5 months, I would like to start modding it so that I can increase its functionality.
Simply, what I would like to do is, change the map provider to Waze and disable a few features that slow down the device (Streamline its usability for driving).
I'm not sure where to start, nor how to mod the device - I do not even know if the device is encrypted or not. I know that a lot of Navdy users are frustrated with the company (which is now non-existent anymore) and I would like to start coming up with a solution - other than android auto - for all.
Thanks a bunch, Nate

TheKnower said:
Hello all,
Thank you for taking your time to read this post, I truly appreciate it. I have a Navdy HUD and have has it for around 5 months, I would like to start modding it so that I can increase its functionality.
Simply, what I would like to do is, change the map provider to Waze and disable a few features that slow down the device (Streamline its usability for driving).
I'm not sure where to start, nor how to mod the device - I do not even know if the device is encrypted or not. I know that a lot of Navdy users are frustrated with the company (which is now non-existent anymore) and I would like to start coming up with a solution - other than android auto - for all.
Thanks a bunch, Nate
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've rooted the Navdy and got the latest update available to install: https://np.reddit.com/r/navdy/comments/8g6sdi/howto_update_your_display_firmware_and_hack_it/

Need help bypassing "can't take screenshot due to security policy"

Hello. I am using a Samsung Galaxy S20+ 5G, Model SM-G986U
Android Version 11
Kernel version 4.19.113-20290031
Build number RP1A.200720.012.G986USQS1CTL1
I did both a Google search and a search using the xda-forum search bar.
First off: Kudos to whoever worked on the forum search feature. It is infinitely better today than it was years ago.
Unfortunately, while the question I have has been asked several times, it looks like no clear answer is given to any of the inquirers.
I would like to be able to bypass or override whatever flag or feature it is that lets app developers disallow users to take screenshots. I would like to be able to take screenshots in apps like Microsoft Teams (and a few other apps), even when the organization has chosen not to permit it. This is something I need to do for work. I can take screenshots in Teams just fine from a Windows PC regardless of policy. I am trusting there exists some method of doing the same from an android device.
What I would not like to do is have a discussion about the merits of enabling or disabling this security feature. Some of the previous users that have inquired were met with discussion about the wisdom of their decision instead of answering their questions directly. This time, I'd like for replies to assume that my mind is already made up and that it isn't changing. If this is something that simply cannot be done, I can accept that answer. Though I don't readily believe it. I believe that just like with a PC, there exists some method of capturing all data sent to the phone, regardless of the sender's intention.
Thank you.

Try any third party app to capture what is on screen, I think you can't do it with stock method of taking screenshot. From android 7 or 8 , they introduced new Methods to not to capture what is available on screen so that any hackers can't capture our passwords using banking apps. I think ms have implemented same strategy. So you can't do it until you have root permissions

I am 100% willing to root the device if necessary, but do want some confirmation beforehand that rooting it will enable me to screen capture from whatever app I want.

r0b126 said:
Hello. I am using a Samsung Galaxy S20+ 5G, Model SM-G986U
Android Version 11
Kernel version 4.19.113-20290031
Build number RP1A.200720.012.G986USQS1CTL1
I did both a Google search and a search using the xda-forum search bar.
First off: Kudos to whoever worked on the forum search feature. It is infinitely better today than it was years ago.
Unfortunately, while the question I have has been asked several times, it looks like no clear answer is given to any of the inquirers.
I would like to be able to bypass or override whatever flag or feature it is that lets app developers disallow users to take screenshots. I would like to be able to take screenshots in apps like Microsoft Teams (and a few other apps), even when the organization has chosen not to permit it. This is something I need to do for work. I can take screenshots in Teams just fine from a Windows PC regardless of policy. I am trusting there exists some method of doing the same from an android device.
What I would not like to do is have a discussion about the merits of enabling or disabling this security feature. Some of the previous users that have inquired were met with discussion about the wisdom of their decision instead of answering their questions directly. This time, I'd like for replies to assume that my mind is already made up and that it isn't changing. If this is something that simply cannot be done, I can accept that answer. Though I don't readily believe it. I believe that just like with a PC, there exists some method of capturing all data sent to the phone, regardless of the sender's intention.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My simple reply,, is when I got that security
policy violation I was either A) trying to capture a
Kodak moment of my current bank balance in hopes of an securing an outcome, that while only temporary was nonetheless a mutually desired and shared experience with a member of the opposite gender, also, FLAGGED AS GOOD TO GO, or, MAJORLY way less interesting, B) the never to miss a trick bastards just don't want me swiping an awesome wallpaper idea right from under their greedy noses! Dammit man, I'll always choose A)..habit, I guess? lol

'back in the day' i've used smalipatcher.
This disables the security flag completely.
Not sure if it works with android 11.
Requires root.
Easiest way; You could also mirror the screen to your pc, and make screenshots from your pc.

r0b126 said:
Hello. I am using a Samsung Galaxy S20+ 5G, Model SM-G986U
Android Version 11
Kernel version 4.19.113-20290031
Build number RP1A.200720.012.G986USQS1CTL1
I did both a Google search and a search using the xda-forum search bar.
First off: Kudos to whoever worked on the forum search feature. It is infinitely better today than it was years ago.
Unfortunately, while the question I have has been asked several times, it looks like no clear answer is given to any of the inquirers.
I would like to be able to bypass or override whatever flag or feature it is that lets app developers disallow users to take screenshots. I would like to be able to take screenshots in apps like Microsoft Teams (and a few other apps), even when the organization has chosen not to permit it. This is something I need to do for work. I can take screenshots in Teams just fine from a Windows PC regardless of policy. I am trusting there exists some method of doing the same from an android device.
What I would not like to do is have a discussion about the merits of enabling or disabling this security feature. Some of the previous users that have inquired were met with discussion about the wisdom of their decision instead of answering their questions directly. This time, I'd like for replies to assume that my mind is already made up and that it isn't changing. If this is something that simply cannot be done, I can accept that answer. Though I don't readily believe it. I believe that just like with a PC, there exists some method of capturing all data sent to the phone, regardless of the sender's intention.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very well put, i don't get it, what's wrong with these androids
actually considering getting an iphone for this stupid problem
youre best bet would be without rooting use this method, i used it, it worked on some apps and unfortunately some banking apps are just not cloneable, whatsapp is not too