Develop Bugs

[Q] What does tripping Knox break?

I thought I had seen a thread about this but I can't find it anywhere (so it was probably on another device's forums somewhere)..
So the question is: What does tripping knox break other then voiding warranty?
I thought I read somewhere that it stopped the IR or HDMI stuff from working? (or was it just the WatchOn app?)
I have also read somewhere that it breaks the Samsung Hub and/or Play Movies? (but I believe that was solved?)
not that i'm too worried about these apps not working.. but it would be handy to have list of things no longer working with the bit set to 0x1
Is there any truth to these things? Or am I worried about nothing?
(I'm seriously thinking about a P600, if rooting/flashing (even stock FW) doesnt break "major" functionality)

Krobz said:
So the question is: What does tripping knox break other then voiding warranty?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1, I have the same question.
Together with the question that every other change can be revoke by flashing a stock ROM. I need answers to both before I start building a custom ROM
PS. Normally this should only break KNOX self and nothing else (see here for more infos). But who knows...

Elim said:
+1, I have the same question.
Together with the question that every other change can be revoke by flashing a stock ROM. I need answers to both before I start building a custom ROM
PS. Normally this should only break KNOX self and nothing else (see here for more infos). But who knows...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The question is a really fundamental great one as needs an answer so that users can make an inform choice to do some custom work on their tablet or just stay stock. Or maybe start developing work arounds for the problems. I have already tripped the KNOX on my note and now wondering have I really messed up. Although Samsung enjoys the profit benefits of selling phones and tablets that can be modified with no downside to them as it voids your warranty. Now I am suspicious if with the new Note 10.1 Samsung may have changed the game rules now that they are popular and selling products like gangbusters. I had the old Note 10.1 and rooted it without any problems, so I went ahead and rooted this one ASAP assuming the rules where the same, are they the same? Well having second thoughts despite I have a pretty heavy history of programming and electronic hardware experience. So I am all in for this thread!

Except your warranty, nothing.

Root tab s or not ?? Does it worth it ?

I finally got my tab s 10.5 lte and it is really a Beauty , the only thing Iam not happy because of lagging which is more than I expected
Usually I root my android devices as soon I got them but this time Iam not sure if it is worth it to root it and install custom rom and loose warrenty or not specially I observed that the development is not active with this device
So Iam waiting for your advice and pls tell me if rooting will make this laggging disappear so that I can enjoy this beauty
Thanks

salahfathi said:
I finally got my tab s 10.5 lte and it is really a Beauty , the only thing Iam not happy because of lagging which is more than I expected
Usually I root my android devices as soon I got them but this time Iam not sure if it is worth it to root it and install custom rom and loose warrenty or not specially I observed that the development is not active with this device
So Iam waiting for your advice and pls tell me if rooting will make this laggging disappear so that I can enjoy this beauty
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on the same boat and the hard part is to find someone who actually accept there is lag, and then the same person confirms that rooting and freezing or uninstall all the bloatware will fix the issue. The problem I saw with my 10.5 it was that the lag it was not the usual lag because a touchwiz rom, this was beyond that and I think is because the Exynos, and if this lag is a hardware/kernel culprit well nothing will fix it unless there is a 100% complete kernel source and somebody dig there to try to fix, but first need to know what is happening. So for me rooting and loosing warranty and the possibility to return it, was not worth to try the actual "roms" which are mostly only debloated roms. At the end I returned.

First I can't return it simple as that
Second I love the screen and its size is simply perfect
So from your point of view it doesn't worth root and losing warrenty?
If this is it so Iam so sad to pay that money to get these problems with that beautiful piece of teck
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

salahfathi said:
First I can't return it simple as that
Second I love the screen and its size is simply perfect
So from your point of view it doesn't worth root and losing warrenty?
If this is it so Iam so sad to pay that money to get these problems with that beautiful piece of teck
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I would say at this time, no. Maybe when the dev community grows a bit more then it will make sense. But it's up to you. If you want to try to debloat it i read that Greenify now supports auto-hibernation on non rooted devices. Maybe that will give you an idea.

Rooted mine so I can add multi apps/windows and also remove some of the unneeded bloat that's constantly running... Personal choice of course.

if i root it is there any chance to restore default settings again? (apps, unroot...)

M4jQ said:
if i root it is there any chance to restore default settings again? (apps, unroot...)
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Click to collapse
Root doesn't change any settings or apps. To unroot just flash the stock rom again.

Development is moving apace CM11
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2848705

aluvais
It's a kind of attitude. I pay for the device. I own the device. I master my device. So rooting is logical consequence.
For me, always rooting device to be able to remove unneeded and bloated _vendor_ apps and be the master of my devices .

moreroid said:
It's a kind of attitude. I pay for the device. I own the device. I master my device. So rooting is logical consequence.
For me, always rooting device to be able to remove unneeded and bloated _vendor_ apps and be the master of my devices .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too I always root at first night but the problem is warrenty

salahfathi said:
Me too I always root at first night but the problem is warrenty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting doesn't actually void your entire device warranty, that would be illegal. Knox is a security thing and gaining root access does compromise security so that makes sense the knox warranty will get voided. But if you think you can legally get denied for manufacturing defects because of rooting, you are mistaken my friend.
In short, there's the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act which sets the standards on warranties and the part that covers modding goes something like "The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."
Basically the only time Samsung can legally deny warranty service is if they prove rooting caused the malfunction. /thread :silly:

But in actual world will that be the situation ? I doubt

What is Knox an why do I care?

Please forgive the catchy title as well as my ignorance as while I have been around computing stuff for a long time, am kinda new to the Android stuff.
For me, I picked up a Samsung Strat II this summer, an have gotten a bit used to that, so just grabbed a 8.4 for Xmas as I have more uses for that, an would like to get that running as best as possible.
For the Strat II, I did root it with Towelroot an with no noticeable side effects, so understand the hows an why's of this.
But in reading the forums for the 8.4, have been seeing this thing about tripping the Knox from messing with the OS in anyways in regard to rooting.
From the little bit I have read, it seems to be some kind of root tripper, an would assume that voids any warranties too, but was wondering if some could explain it a bit more to me, an perhaps answer the following questions.
1: Does it in fact trip from a root an does this void the warranty?
2: This does not seem to be part of my Strat II OS, so is this something newer?
3: If indeed it is just a warranty thing, do I care once it's out of warranty? Which I think is one year?
4: Is it just a OS recording thing, or does it mess up the tab in anyway, software or hardware wise?
5: From what I have read, once tripped, its permanent an there is no way to reverse that even from a complete system reset, so is that true?
So those are just a few at the moment an again, please forgive my ignorance, but hey, if you don't ask, you don't learn.
Thanks for any help

if you used towelroot then you probably didn't trip knox, knox will trip if you use other root methods like cf-auto-root or flash custom firmwares like CM.
knox is a hardware fuse (at least on the snapdragon cpu) that once tripped cannot be undone as it actually modifies hardware kind-of like burning out a circuit and Samsung checks the flag to see if the device was tampered with and it will void warranty (though they may or may not make an exception depending on the issue like if something was hardware related they might still honor it).
TowelRoot uses a kernel exploit and doesn't mess with bootloaders ..etc , thus keeping knox happy

Thanks for the reply otyg, so can I use towelroot on my 8.4, or does this not work with something like this, or with this OS?

WBFAir said:
Thanks for the reply otyg, so can I use towelroot on my 8.4, or does this not work with something like this, or with this OS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Towelroot only worked on ND1~ND3 Firmware on the tab pro 8.4 then the kernel was patched on newer firmwares--- so if your tab has a newer firmware it won't work anymore without some headaches.
Basically you need to flash the Kernel (not the full firmware) from ND3 root the tab with towelroot then swap the kernel back to the current firmware, and knox should stay at 0x0 .

One of the things that puzzles me is why did they even do this?
Seems that the customization that rooting is needed to be done for, is such a big part of why many buy these things?
Guess there is some that damage things by over clocking or something else, an then rest everything an try to claim warranty, but still gotta be a small amount as apposed to those who buy them as they can do all the software stuff to them.
Seems like they are trying to lock out a good amount of their customer base.

WBFAir said:
One of the things that puzzles me is why did they even do this?
Seems that the customization that rooting is needed to be done for, is such a big part of why many buy these things?
Guess there is some that damage things by over clocking or something else, an then rest everything an try to claim warranty, but still gotta be a small amount as apposed to those who buy them as they can do all the software stuff to them.
Seems like they are trying to lock out a good amount of their customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could be worse, the efuse(s) can be used for all kinds of things like completely locking the bootloader, luckily Samsung didn't go to that extreme

Yeah, I understand.
So by any chance otyg, do you know if regarding my question on anything else it might do, does tripping the knox do anything other then the hardfuse, an the reporting of it?
Does it effect the device in any other way?
Basically I tried the unit I have for just a little bit as I wanted to setup the basics before Xmas an make sure it would work with my WiFi, but all in all the unit ran pretty nice with just the way it was.
So I really even wonder if I want to root it, an then with this Knox thing, its deterring me even more.
But then too, I know some apps just really require it.
So kinda torn.
But if it does something else negative to the device other then what we have already discussed, might just leave it alone for the time being.
Btw, thanks for all the help so far.

There are benefits to rooting like being able to use your sdcard properly , I rooted mine, never tripped knox,
As with all rooting It's a risk if you do trip it it will probably void warranty, it could also brick your device if something goes wrong.
Another common problem I have been seeing is random reboots for people who have a tripped knox flag (this is due to software on the tablet that checks knox and somehow causes reboots, you can disable the software but still troublesome and doesn't work for everyone).
If you really want to root I would go with towelroot method, its the safest and less risk for triggering any knox problems.
you basically update your firmware to the latest version first, extract the kernel from the tar file, download the ND3 firmware extract the kernel, tar the kernel's , flash the nd3 kernel with odin, boot-up , towelroot, install supersu , reboot - switch back to download mode and re-flash the latest kernel)
Read through this thread too, some people have prepared standalone kernels to use if you don't want to do it yourself. you probably need ND3 (or ND1 will work) and K1 if your tablet is the XAR model.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2786800
^ND1 kernel
http://forum.xda-developers.com/gal...320xar1ank1-extracted-stock-firmware-t2954549
^K1 kernel

Thanks greatly otyg, will have to look into this more after the holidays, an thanks so much for the info

WBFAir said:
One of the things that puzzles me is why did they even do this?
Seems that the customization that rooting is needed to be done for, is such a big part of why many buy these things?
Guess there is some that damage things by over clocking or something else, an then rest everything an try to claim warranty, but still gotta be a small amount as apposed to those who buy them as they can do all the software stuff to them.
Seems like they are trying to lock out a good amount of their customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because people mostly don't care and don't know.
If you don't like what they do, then don't support them. Stop buying their products, or buy used if you have to.
Personally, Samsung is the #1 company on my **** list, with Apple being a close 2nd, due to their policies towards their customers.
I only bought my 12.2 Note Pro because nobody else make anything in this class.
I already have Nexus 4 & 7. Xperia. And if I was shopping for a small tablet, I'd get the new Nexus (despite the HTC crappy quality lottery).
I also bought it used/refurbished, not new.

WBFAir said:
Yeah, I understand.
So by any chance otyg, do you know if regarding my question on anything else it might do, does tripping the knox do anything other then the hardfuse, an the reporting of it?
Does it effect the device in any other way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For this device, once you trip Knox you can no longer update firmware through the traditional methods, you have to do it manually through something like Odin or a custom recovery, as far as I can tell. Samsung recognizes that you've "modified" your device and will not let you update through official channels.

gidal said:
Because people mostly don't care and don't know.
If you don't like what they do, then don't support them. Stop buying their products, or buy used if you have to.
Personally, Samsung is the #1 company on my **** list, with Apple being a close 2nd, due to their policies towards their customers.
I only bought my 12.2 Note Pro because nobody else make anything in this class.
I already have Nexus 4 & 7. Xperia. And if I was shopping for a small tablet, I'd get the new Nexus (despite the HTC crappy quality lottery).
I also bought it used/refurbished, not new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suspect it's to honor their high level contracts (like the govs, and fortune 500 company's) who need to keep the devices secure, knox is a good way to tell the customer their device could have been compromised, unfortunately it does effect normal users like us who like to tweak the devices a little .

otyg said:
I suspect it's to honor their high level contracts (like the govs, and fortune 500 company's) who need to keep the devices secure, knox is a good way to tell the customer their device could have been compromised
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Click to collapse
This is pretty much true, in my understanding. KNOX is aimed at enterprise users (company provided devices) as a means of ensuring the devices are kept in an "approved" or "compliant" configuration. Once a device is rooted, root can be hidden (as well as any number of changes made to the system) so it makes sense for IT departments to want a non-reversible hardware fuse to detect the device has been tampered (mainly by the employees).
Android hasn't had the widest adoption for enterprise use, mainly due to the open nature of the OS. So such security measures are an attempt at changing that perception.
Folks on here have argued that KNOX counter does not void the warranty, and its only purpose if for use along with the KNOX security software. Whether that is 100% true or not, I can't personally say.

Knox allows a device to be setup as two completely separate devices in one. One secured for business use the other for personal use. I tripped Knox immediately on mine when I rooted it.

Can i towelroot and install cm without knockig trox?

Once rooted/flashed, can I restore my phone to out-of-the-box?

I just bought a new (used) Note 4. It is fresh, stock, BOB7.
If I root, install recovery, and install a new rom, I figure it will trip Knox and turn it "custom".
My question - is it possible after that to return to out-of-the-box-stock? Do I have to take an image of the current config or something?
Thanks!
Mike

resarfekim said:
I just bought a new (used) Note 4. It is fresh, stock, BOB7.
If I root, install recovery, and install a new rom, I figure it will trip Knox and turn it "custom".
My question - is it possible after that to return to out-of-the-box-stock? Do I have to take an image of the current config or something?
Thanks!
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. You can odin the stock ob7 tar and the phone will be as out of the box but of course Knox will still be tripped.
Get the stock tar here in the OP :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2944867
Full instructions are there also.

jhill110 said:
Yes. You can odin the stock ob7 tar and the phone will be as out of the box but of course Knox will still be tripped.
Get the stock tar here in the OP :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2944867
Full instructions are there also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, you Note 4 guys are quick. Thanks for the reply!
So, not that it matters too much, but there is no way to retain/restore the Knox counter then? On my Note 2, there was a flashable back-to-stock image.

resarfekim said:
Wow, you Note 4 guys are quick. Thanks for the reply!
So, not that it matters too much, but there is no way to retain/restore the Knox counter then? On my Note 2, there was a flashable back-to-stock image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at this time and unlikely in the future.

jhill110 said:
Not at this time and unlikely in the future.
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Click to collapse
Wasnt there talk in the past, forgot who or what thread it was in/about and it was stated that after the repair center gave them their phone back the knox-counter was reset to 0x0 ?
Ive seen many mentions of xda users in this forum(N910P) of working at sprint stores, if not that, working in the repair center. With the FUSE counter itself being an issue and the Signature also being an issue, i wonder the validity of that claim(counter reset), let alone if anyone who claims to work at sprint, could provide feedback on that claim, which at the time, there was none and yet to be.
And the surprising jump in members alone from the last year and a half to current date(wasnt it like 5.5 mil and now its sitting at a cool 6.5 mil) no telling how many Samsung employees probably just sit and search to counter hurdles that have been leaped, only to have updates, like OE1, magically and inconveniently push out updates thwarting what devs have accomplished.

xxSTARBUCKSxx said:
Wasnt there talk in the past, forgot who or what thread it was in/about and it was stated that after the repair center gave them their phone back the knox-counter was reset to 0x0 ?
Ive seen many mentions of xda users in this forum(N910P) of working at sprint stores, if not that, working in the repair center. With the FUSE counter itself being an issue and the Signature also being an issue, i wonder the validity of that claim(counter reset), let alone if anyone who claims to work at sprint, could provide feedback on that claim, which at the time, there was none and yet to be.
And the surprising jump in members alone from the last year and a half to current date(wasnt it like 5.5 mil and now its sitting at a cool 6.5 mil) no telling how many Samsung employees probably just sit and search to counter hurdles that have been leaped, only to have updates, like OE1, magically and inconveniently push out updates thwarting what devs have accomplished.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well. I had run across a tmo thread that had posts stating phones had been returned with the Knox bit reset. There was a guy posting in that thread saying he worked out front at a Samsung authorized repair joint and had techs tell him the bit can be restored. Others elsewhere thought it would take replacing the mother board to achieve that. Bottom line I took from all that was samsung will repair a clearly bad hardware issue even with the bit tripped. Of course a lot of legend in their own mind types put the pupu on that but it has happened.
And yes, Samsung has been engaged in a we'll show you thing. Now I'm probably going to catch a lot of flack for saying this but I'm going to.
Most of the development for Android devices comes from the US... I think it's very likely the Koreans (samsung) hate that and take it as a challenge to show how much better/smarter they are than we.
Just my non insider opinion...

jhill110 said:
Well. I had run across a tmo thread that had posts stating phones had been returned with the Knox bit reset. There was a guy posting in that thread saying he worked out front at a Samsung authorized repair joint and had techs tell him the bit can be restored. Others elsewhere thought it would take replacing the mother board to achieve that. Bottom line I took from all that was samsung will repair a clearly bad hardware issue even with the bit tripped. Of course a lot of legend in their own mind types put the pupu on that but it has happened.
And yes, Samsung has been engaged in a we'll show you thing. Now I'm probably going to catch a lot of flack for saying this but I'm going to.
Most of the development for Android devices comes from the US... I think it's very likely the Koreans (samsung) hate that and take it as a challenge to show how much better/smarter they are than we.
Just my non insider opinion...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, TW, Tizen, Knox, KnoxII, menu/recents button. Need I say more: Samsung/Galaxy app store, Milk, Chrome plug-in, security updates. Google has a rocky relationship with Samsung. One minute they're slapping then on the wrist, the next minute they're defending them in court against Apple.
All the while Samsung is copying Google to be their own standalone mobile platform. They may succeed eventually.
Competition is good. Truth is Samsung needs Google right now with its dwindling sales.
When the S5 came out with the menu switch from recents back to menu as an option, I was with Samsung on that but the Note 4 seemed to be a wink at Google like Samsung was more willing to do things Google's way. That gave us the silly white background menus and removed the menu/recents option in settings. What a cave in! Wrong move giving us KnoxII with non-user trip reset and this ugly UI. I hear they messed with the S5 on updates too. Yuck Samsung!
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Yes... The awful "material" white background, so retro low tech, so dos ansi... I was one very happy user when @tx_dbs_tx came with the dark mod... It wasn't perfect but it was what I preferred.

Root in the Future

As many of you know the Nokia 8.1 is probably not going to get a method for a unlocked bootloader since H.M.D global shut down the exploit/way to aquire it.
I was wondering if there would be any reason that my beloved 8.1 couldn't be rooted by apps like Kingroot when they get the ability to root android PIE.
I didn't realize upon buying the phone that Nokia was so against rooting and im kinda bummed out that as of yet the phone isn't rootable yet. Might even trade it for a Pocophone and take the lack of NFC for granted

Do have mine unlocked and rooted. But the root is a messy task which will most likely take away OTA updates because any tampering is an end to the incremental OTA. Then flashing stock is a tough task too, because the awesome people at FIH Mobile forgot to disable fuse when bl is unlocked. Also, the process is kinda complicated and still under testing Given the complication, I'm sure it won't be freely available because it starts off by using paid tools to trigger debug mode.

I really didn't know that there's almost no way to root this phone when I bought it 2 months ago, but luckily the only reason I've rooted my previous phone (Mi A1) was because of Gcam which is supported out of the box on this one. So it's fine for me, but I do see that no rooting method could be an issue for some people.
Sent from my Nokia 8.1 using Tapatalk

I have already replaced the phone because of lack of root / development for this phone. Hated the stock ROM because lots of things didnt work with it (samsung gear watch, some wireless APs, car navigation, etc etc) and without the development this would never be solved.
Also I have expected better camera for the price of the phone.
WIll never buy any HMD device ever again.

nitko666 said:
I have already replaced the phone because of lack of root / development for this phone. Hated the stock ROM because lots of things didnt work with it (samsung gear watch, some wireless APs, car navigation, etc etc) and without the development this would never be solved.
Also I have expected better camera for the price of the phone.
WIll never buy any HMD device ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really !! this is surprise for me
I must have searched and read all forum on xda before buying this phone.
hope some body will post some steps to root it.
I read somewhere that some guys was able to root it.
hope I do not have to sell it.

looks like not much active forum for our device.
less people with this device.

light.apps said:
looks like not much active forum for our device.
less people with this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like not many want to ruin their brand new phone.

Nollie8969 said:
Looks like not many want to ruin their brand new phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA is all about root and ROMs
Every one clever would find out first BEFORE buy Nokia phones about the impossibility of rooting those.
I'm sure when root is possible in future ( some geek will find a way, its a phone and not a high end secure government secret thing lol ) more pple will come see this thread.
Mark my words :good:

You're right. At the end of the update cycle I like to install LOS or likewise. Not for the sake for Adaway only.

Nollie8969 said:
You're right. At the end of the update cycle I like to install LOS or likewise. Not for the sake for Adaway only.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree.
Just like what we're doing at home. We're using Samsung Note 3 (Cyanogenmod rom) as online phone for local line. Before that, the phone with default OS was too lagging and cannot even install the online phone app I need.

andreoide said:
XDA is all about root and ROMs
Every one clever would find out first BEFORE buy Nokia phones about the impossibility of rooting those.
I'm sure when root is possible in future ( some geek will find a way, its a phone and not a high end secure government secret thing lol ) more pple will come see this thread.
Mark my words :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well said :good:

Motorola/Lenovo seems to be the last castle of root/development.
I was an early adopter of G7 (I bought it on initial release). As soon as BL unlock support added, BAM! rooted!
How easy it was and I am not developer

singhnsk said:
Do have mine unlocked and rooted. But the root is a messy task which will most likely take away OTA updates because any tampering is an end to the incremental OTA. Then flashing stock is a tough task too, because the awesome people at FIH Mobile forgot to disable fuse when bl is unlocked. Also, the process is kinda complicated and still under testing Given the complication, I'm sure it won't be freely available because it starts off by using paid tools to trigger debug mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro, can you please explain about how to root my nokia 8.1