Good day XDA folks,
Let me start this thread by saying that I very much appreciate the great things made on XDA, keep up the good work, awesome community!:good:
I also want to say that I like the construction of this site in general: not bad, not bad at all... But there is one thing bothering me for some time now, and that thing just crossed the line:
What the **** is wrong with the search functions.
Really, I understand it might be hard to implement a good search function, but XDA has over 5 million members and I feel that a website with that many users has to meet certain standards. The search functions, however, are extremely lacking.
Let me give a few examples of this:
Do you know how, in the "you're a noob"-video of XDA, is mentioned that you have to search for already created threads before making a new one? I did that for this thread by searching the obvious term 'search' in the About xda-developers.com subforum. The amount of relevant results was mind-boggling low: of all 25 items on the first results page, there was one single thread with 'search' in it's title, and this hit was the two-but-last result. I have experienced this sort of search feature incompetence multiple times already, it happens in all subforums, even the very straight forward searches wouldn't give the result I desired.
OK, that's one thing, but only this kind of issue still isn't enough for me to create a thread about this: yes that's right, there's more, something worse. I wanted to go to my device's forum today so I searched for "xperia s" like i always do. Yes this always worked as expected, but not today, so I try to be more specific, I search "sony xperia s" but no, still no hit. Then I got a bit frustrated and typed the exact name of my mobile phone with quotation marks: ""Sony Xperia S"" and a decent-sized list of Xperia devices appeared below the searchbar, BUT IT DIDN'T INCLUDE XPERIA S. I tried other searches but no matter what I wouldn't be able to navigate to the Xperia S forums through the device search function. I have never used such a bad search function before and it makes me rage. So please, XDA, please tell me this is a bug, that it's going to improve, that this isn't supposed to happen.
Dear XDA-devs,
Fix pl0x.
And keep being awesome,
Cheers.
First this would be best addressed by Admins their contacts
just to advice you concerning how search works on XDA, from MY experience
when using " Device search" , just type x you would get a drop down menu based on that letter , imputing the other letters to form xperia would decrease the contents of the drop down menu , say you complete the word "xperia" the available devices will now be listed and from what I note , your device is not listed.
so its now best to quit that search and use the "All Forums search", now when I type xperia s. I also get a drop down menu with a number of items for xperia S, which you can select according to your choosing.
so its working better than before but not under device search but under all forums search.
Check this out! Links to useful Guides and " Banned " Documentaries
To be honest, I rarely use XDA's search function. I find it far easier to use Google and start the search string with "site:forum.xda-developers.com" followed by what I actually want to search for.
Normally far quicker and far more accurate than XDA's search tool, and far less likely to be down when you most need it.
Related
just wondering if your thinking of doing such an upgrade?
it would be nice to have the search terms highlighted when searched or even show the terms in a summary like fashion?
with all of the WM5 stuff going on, its hard sorting through some of the longer threads.. then to find out that it had nothign to do with what i was looking for..
just a suggestion.. but again, thanks for the great site!
It's a crufty hack rather then a solution, but:
Ensure you use boolean operators correctly (because the search does work), and enabeshow posts, not threads. Then, on the list of hits, click on the subject link and you'll be taken directly to the post with the hit.
V
Is it working? mine doesn't return any results.
mine neither!
Its defo broke!
yep, no more searching here either...
I think I broke it, I did a search for "install Vista on Pocket PC" then it stopped working...
Not to worry I found what I was looking for.
Thanks.
yep, very few results when searching. not very useful that way :-/
Any prevision when it will be fixed??
Yes, I just did a search and it only returned results going back to Feb. 11. It is a topic that has definitely been discussed prior to that. Guess I'll wait and hope it gets fixed.
http://www.google.co.uk/advanced_se...-developers.com&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all
i sent this to the feedback form on the site many moons ago, but apparently nobody has taken notice.
Has anyone else noticed this??
If you are not logged in,
The quick search (click search so the box comes up with "show threads", "show posts", and advanced search options) is pointless.
If you try top search with it, you will alwasy receive an error. Because you have to answer the no spam question via the advanced search page. Whats the point of having the quick search in this case?
I propose the admin either gets rid of quick search (have it go right to advanced search), OR add a box in the quick search for the spam question .. for guests that aren't logged in.
I know it has frustrated me more than once!!
thanks for listening
Hi Guys,
We switched the search function on 12-02 as posted in news.
Could you give me some feedback on if this improved the search or not?
Concerning the nospam issue it should only be an issue for unregistered or not logged in users, if you have problems as a logged in user please let me know asap.
Greetz,
Flar
as just posted in the thread in news: search has been switched back too fulltext boolean which is what we we're using before, we're looking into other alternatives..
Greetz,
Flar
Ahh, great, thkx a lot for fixing it
Thanks for switching it back. It's much easier to find things again.
Ditto to the two opinions above me.
My opinion on other search options:
I frequently also use google site search to find posts on XDA.... I find it works very well for me (so well I have set up a keyword shortcut in firefox. All I hvae to do is type "xda " and the terms i am looking for in the address bar, and hit enter.)
this is what i used to type into the google box when I did it manually:
site:forum.xda-developers.com the keywords your looking for
This is especially true when I am looking for terms less than 3 characters, the normal search won't work.
Maybe you guys should consider offering direct access to a google site search in addition to the boolean?
(( An example is how Webmasterworld does it. They go two steps further with a yahoo and MSN. In fact, 3rd party is their only search system:
http://www.webmasterworld.com/searchform.cgi
))
well the forum search was working good for me yesterday..and today all i get is the Google search "Search XDA-Developers using Google" choice.. i like the older forum search..
am i doing something wrong?
ha! I thought they would use my suggestion in addition to, and not in place of, the normal search.
But just to confirm w/ the poster above me .. yes it seems that is the only search option now, your not doing anything wrong.
I dont mind using google search, in general it can find topics on here pretty good, but it has limitations.
For example, if the site search is turned off, you cant search individual threads. Some threads on here get VERY big, and without the "search this thread" function there are going to be plenty of questions asked and answered multiple times in each thread, which leads to annoyed people saying the question has already been answered, etc.
With that said, I really do hope the site search does come back for this reason.
i concur for the same reasons. +1 vote for that
Is there any reason why neither a keyword or tag search for "[ROM]" (without quotes) yields zero results?
If I want to find a list of all [ROM] titled/tagged threads to look at the range of ROM's available; what is the best way to go about it?
Am I being a noob or is there a fundamental search flaw?
Well...
I can think in 3 search criteria:
1. Go to the upgrading section of your device
2. use Wiki to find all cooked and shiped ROM´s
3. Use the XDA fttp
Windza said:
Is there any reason why neither a keyword or tag search for "[ROM]" (without quotes) yields zero results?
If I want to find a list of all [ROM] titled/tagged threads to look at the range of ROM's available; what is the best way to go about it?
Am I being a noob or is there a fundamental search flaw?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few months back I actually dug through the advanced search code in vBulletin (trust me, it's terrible code). I may be mistaken, but I believe that it doesn't allow keywords of 3 or less letters unless there's extra parameters (like boolean operators and more keywords). Don't hold me on that, I'd have to look again to be sure.
One of these days if I remember, I'll go hunting through the code again to confirm that and update the wiki page I wrote (link is in my signature) with the answer to this.
mikechannon said:
Indeed words of less than 4 letters will not search. BUT if you click on advanced searh then choose search using Google at the top, it will search for 3 letter words.
Or you could use this:
Search XDA-Devs Forums or Wiki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with using google in this case is that it's not context aware of the forum threads. I think he's looking to see a large list of the different roms. With google, he's going to get search results including several different pages per rom and no way to sort the results. It would be faster to just click next through each page of the rom dev forum for the selected phone...which is almost as good as getting the intended search results from searching for [ROM]....
It makes me wonder how hard it would be to patch the issue in vBulletin and get better search results than Google can produce.
speed_pour said:
It makes me wonder how hard it would be to patch the issue in vBulletin and get better search results than Google can produce.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If everybody can do the same thing as google did, google will not be google, I mean, the #1 internet company in the world.
I am just wondering that can anybody produce a code like the search link on this page.[Edit: I want to add several more sites as searching range to that one, can you figure it out?]
wg5566 said:
If everybody can do the same thing as google did, google will not be google, I mean, the #1 internet company in the world.
I am just wondering that can anybody produce a code like the search link on this page.[Edit: I want to add several more sites as searching range to that one, can you figure it out?]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't talking about producing a better search engine, only fixing the known bugs. Things like the incorrect handling of sorting by relevancy (as detailed in the wiki page I wrote), the 4+ letter requirement on search terms, and maybe even giving it grouping capability. The first two aren't even hard to change, though the 4+ letter requirement is performance based, so it might be good to re-engineer some stuff. The grouping is trickier, but not even remotely an expert-level task (though it too has some performance implications).
Google doesn't have the know-how to separate or understand the context of searching only a certain group (or set of groups). It doesn't know how to search ONLY the topic and not the text body (or vice versa), etc. All of that data is separate and stuck in the database in different fields, which makes it WAY easier to search. We can have better search results than google because we have better access to the data, we just have to work through vBulletin's very simple code.
Yes agree. It is a shame that I found sometimes (or many times?) using the integrated search engine is not as good as just using 'search site by google'.
In my opinion, the 4letter+ issue is not as important as others. It is only reasonable to set such a reqirement and in most cases we don't need to search a word with less than 4 letters.
But I feel like lucky that I asked my question to the right person. Would you please spend a little time on help some clue for the question in my last post? Thanks in advance.
It will be wonderful if we can set google to search on limited range only like: xda-devs, ppcgeeks, msdn, pda4x, ppcfreeware, etc.
wg5566 said:
Yes agree. It is a shame that I found sometimes (or many times?) using the integrated search engine is not as good as just using 'search site by google'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it depends on what is being searched for. Most RL friends know me for instantly hitting google to search on almost anything, but for this site I actually do use the integrated search most of the time. A well formed search here is still better than most results on google unless you need to use some pretty advanced searches that only Google can understand.
wg5566 said:
In my opinion, the 4letter+ issue is not as important as others. It is only reasonable to set such a reqirement and in most cases we don't need to search a word with less than 4 letters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPS, WM6, SIM, GSM, SD, ROM, CAB
Just to name a few....
wg5566 said:
But I feel like lucky that I asked my question to the right person. Would you please spend a little time on help some clue for the question in my last post? Thanks in advance.
It will be wonderful if we can set google to search on limited range only like: xda-devs, ppcgeeks, msdn, pda4x, ppcfreeware, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm about to pick on you just a bit...
Did you consider searching Google for 'Google Custom Search'? Fourth result down there's a step-by-step guide that explains it easily and also pushes the value of it when combined with AdSense. This is a search thread after all
I admit, I'm glad to have stumbled onto setting up that feature with adsense because I would actually like to use it just for my own site I'm setting up shortly.
Thanks a lot, I got it.
One more noob question(web design is apparently not my area), can I set it in a local page like this, bcz I don't own a website myself? [Edit: Never Mind, Got It!]
Later on after setup your site, pls pm me a link.
Tx.
Edit: Just tried to create my own search engine, take a look here
Edit: Wonderful! Yeah! So happy today.
Windza said:
Is there any reason why neither a keyword or tag search for "[ROM]" (without quotes) yields zero results?
If I want to find a list of all [ROM] titled/tagged threads to look at the range of ROM's available; what is the best way to go about it?
Am I being a noob or is there a fundamental search flaw?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It yields zero results because the word is too short.
Searching for ROM version #s
I just ran into a search problem myself. I was searching for radio version 1.14.25.05. The google search took me to a long thread, so I thought I'd just search for "1.14.25.05". It didn't return any results, so I assumed this version wasn't there. It wasn't until I asked for help on a new thread that I was embarrassed by someone who told me it was on post #2. I had incorrectly trusted search. With version #s being so important to what xda-developers is all about, having a robust thread search is critical. Any thoughts on possible improvements? Are there settings in this software that could be changed?
John
Searching for a 3-letter result... "YES" we can
So basically, everyone says to use "search" on XDA devs to look for answers for your questions, but nobody says "you should use google search if any word you're looking for is three letters or less"..... like SMS.
It's frustrating, following the rules, being told to follow the rules, then finding out following the rules didn't work anyways.
Fixing this nonsense would be great. Even removing the 'built-in forum search' entirely....? just a thought.
Apart from that, thanks for hosting an amazing site, full of talented, hard-working people and their efforts... if you can find them hehe
pimpmydragon said:
So basically, everyone says to use "search" on XDA devs to look for answers for your questions, but nobody says "you should use google search if any word you're looking for is three letters or less"..... like SMS.
It's frustrating, following the rules, being told to follow the rules, then finding out following the rules didn't work anyways.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The rule is there to prevent people from asking questions that can be answered by either search engine we use. For a rule to work it needs to be short and to the point, no one will even try to read the rules if every rule is explained in detail.
pimpmydragon said:
Fixing this nonsense would be great. Even removing the 'built-in forum search' entirely....? just a thought.
Apart from that, thanks for hosting an amazing site, full of talented, hard-working people and their efforts... if you can find them hehe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're well aware that the vB search engine isn't perfect but neither is the one from google. That is why we give you the option to use both.
I'm well aware that this can be confusing at times but simply searching for "how to search xda-developers.com?" would have given you this thread wich explains in the first post that you can use google and that we implemented it because the vB search doesn't allow words with less than 4 characters.
Best regards,
Flar
Site admin
p.s. I always use the search in the navbar first I noticed later that my example search string gives really crappy results in the vb search.
Originally Posted by pimpmydragon
Apart from that, thanks for hosting an amazing site, full of talented, hard-working people and their efforts... if you can find them hehe
we are only a PM away.
Flar said:
The rule is there to prevent people from asking questions that can be answered by either search engine we use. For a rule to work it needs to be short and to the point, no one will even try to read the rules if every rule is explained in detail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe many users never read site rules. Once we register on any web-site, there always be a rule or a terms-of-use, and people's habit would be just click on 'Agree' without a glance at the content, since they are all similiar.
But we have a way to force new users to learn how to search and view the site. Simply change the rule to: New users can not post within say first 50 online hours after registered. Then they have to view and search first, especially if they came with some question or urgent problem to be solved.I think Vbulletin has the function of online-time statistics.
Just an idea for consideration, I don't know it will be practical or not.
wg5566 said:
I believe many users never read site rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Forum Rules announcement has >51,000 views since march... not bad
Dave
Yes, looks like the situation is better. It works especially by continuous remindment everuwhere. What about number of new users since then?
Edit: Remindment like this works, thanks for everybody's effort. A further thought is: If everybody already read it, but still a lot don't follow it. That may be caused by some human nature for urgently need an answer for his question. Noticed MODs' effort like your goodself to execute the rule, it helped.
Sorry i'm not quoting people here, i'm typing this on my phone.
First, the number of people reading the rules is far less than the number of new users, which doesn't even account for the long time users. Not that it matters hugely, the rules only truly matter to people posting, which is realistically isn't too bad.
Regarding the use of two search engines, it can be seen in a bad way, or it can be seen as having two different tools instead of just one. Neither is perfect, neither is better (opinions and experiences may differ), and they can often be used interchangably, but they are not the same and should be used differently.
Min 4 letter search is awful for a tech forum. No idea why such a known forum hasnt found a work around.
Theres no way around how terrible it is. As mentioned before the sheer number of issues that arise with things that start or 3 letters long renders search impotent.
MMS/USB are two major problems Ive had recently and couldnt do a search to find an answer. Of course that results in yet another thread on the topic being created that is probably needless.
Google search isnt forum specific so it too is too cumbersome to be useful.
Orb , MMS ,SMS , USB, APK , API I mean over half the "talk" we use for Phones involves 3 letter acronyms. Not even beginning to mention something like 1.6 , 2.0 when getting spcifics on those 3 letter acronyms.
- New user comes on here and does a search, but gets no results or not what they're looking for.
- They do another search.
- "Sorry. You must wait 25 seconds."
What do you think will happen?
They go and create yet another redundant pointless thread.
Reducing this time limit by at least 15 seconds would go a LONG ways to helping people search more. I know personally I always get extremely frustrated when I search for something and then have to wait. If we want people to search more, why make it so frustrating?
Welcome to the ADHD generation. Is it hard for people to search using Google with an XDA modifier or doesn't it occur to people to try?
Genuinely interested!
DirkGently1 said:
Welcome to the ADHD generation. Is it hard for people to search using Google with an XDA modifier
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct. Most people have no idea what that is.
Is it even possible to look through all of the returned search results in 25 seconds? You'd have to be a record breaking speed reader
I suppose if someone enters the search term with a typo and then tries again it might be within the 25 second window.
Regularly when I make a search I click on the wrong option (display thread/post or else) and I'm stuck with that 30 seconds limit and this is really annoying. What's the reason for this limit? Avoid overwhelming servers?
DirkGently1 said:
Is it even possible to look through all of the returned search results in 25 seconds? You'd have to be a record breaking speed reader
I suppose if someone enters the search term with a typo and then tries again it might be within the 25 second window.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, exactly. Typo, or my search term was too specific, so I get 0 results.
missparker76 said:
Regularly when I make a search I click on the wrong option (display thread/post or else) and I'm stuck with that 30 seconds limit and this is really annoying. What's the reason for this limit? Avoid overwhelming servers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY!! I HATE that.
I click one option; it returns 0 results, so I want to broaden my search and... I can't.
I see now why this hasn't been a problem for me. I always start with one or two keywords and, if necessary, get more specific in following searches.
Kinda the other way round
DirkGently1 said:
I see now why this hasn't been a problem for me. I always start with one or two keywords and, if necessary, get more specific in following searches.
Kinda the other way round
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I think most of us do like you. This has nothing to do with the fact that we are stuck by the 30 sec limit.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
With all due respect to seasoned members and searchers, really, it isn't that simple to someone who is new to all of this and seeking knowledge. I really don't understand why there's any time limit on searching whatsoever, that seems very counter-intuitive - and it will absolutely result in needless first posts, as Paul220000 pointed out, especially when you've got an issue on your hands you just don't understand how to fix.
reinbeau said:
With all due respect to seasoned members and searchers, really, it isn't that simple to someone who is new to all of this and seeking knowledge. I really don't understand why there's any time limit on searching whatsoever, that seems very counter-intuitive - and it will absolutely result in needless first posts, as Paul220000 pointed out, especially when you've got an issue on your hands you just don't understand how to fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search is very resource intensive, and to make sure the site remains fast, it is necessary to have some restrictions on it.
pulser_g2 said:
Search is very resource intensive, and to make sure the site remains fast, it is necessary to have some restrictions on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course. But 30 seconds is just too long. It results in a lot of useless threads.
Another thing that would help tremendously is to default the search to the "Search this forum" link. I.E. whatever forum you're in, clicking search will default the "Search in Forum(s)" box to the forum or device you're in, since usually you're looking for device specific information anyway.
Compare these two links to see what I mean:
General search: http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php
"Search this forum": http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?f=556
Notice the second link searches only the Nexus One forums.
For a new person looking for info, it would probably be more beneficial to search for device-specific information rather than the default of searching all 700+ forums.
If the resource drain on xda is really that big a deal on searches, maybe adding that Google Search bar that searches with the xda modifier that a lot of other sites and blogs use would be a workable solution.
Yep but would it still allow to search only in specific forums and threads and not in the whole site?
i went to search something yesterday and it took me over 30seconds to find the search box... frustration had already begun to creep on me... finally i located the 'search this forum' button... using it was easy enough... i typed into the box the words 'recalibrate battery'... i then carefully proofread my search criteria before putting it through, which took about 30seconds by the way... at this point i was getting excited... then it returned just about every thread those words were mentioned in.... more frustration...
i agree the search may or may not be confusing to some people, be too slow, have wait periods, or give you the entire forum just in a different order... but it's not XDA's fault... go to any forum that uses vbulletin and you will have the same issues...
distortedloop said:
If the resource drain on xda is really that big a deal on searches, maybe adding that Google Search bar that searches with the xda modifier that a lot of other sites and blogs use would be a workable solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are planning on improving the google search for the site.
As others have said at the moment the google search only works on a Site basis, we're looking into getting it on a per-forum basis.
Dave
Without changing to the old XDA theme down below (ie XDA 2015) which works amazingly well and advanced search is very useful and you can arrange your results that can come in the form of THREADS or individual POSTS and sort by relevance, last posting date, creation date....and the list goes on.
The search feature now you just begin typing and pray to god what you search for make something pop up close to what you are wanting. Good luck though because most likely the results are going to be in a terrible non chronilogical order (i have results pop up from 3 years ago....then very next result is from 2018 and all over the place!!)
How in the heck can you perform an advanced search without going down below and changing the theme to something OLD so that you can reach the "advanced search" button
The search plus feature is a piece of junk
Educate me on how the AVERAGE person is not immediately turned off and frustrated by this. If it wasn't for the old theme still avalible down below....i absolutely could not find what i am searching for on this website.
deskjet390 said:
Without changing to the old XDA theme down below (ie XDA 2015) which works amazingly well and advanced search is very useful and you can arrange your results that can come in the form of THREADS or individual POSTS and sort by relevance, last posting date, creation date....and the list goes on.
The search feature now you just begin typing and pray to god what you search for make something pop up close to what you are wanting. Good luck though because most likely the results are going to be in a terrible non chronilogical order (i have results pop up from 3 years ago....then very next result is from 2018 and all over the place!!)
How in the heck can you perform an advanced search without going down below and changing the theme to something OLD so that you can reach the "advanced search" button
The search plus feature is a piece of junk
Educate me on how the AVERAGE person is not immediately turned off and frustrated by this. If it wasn't for the old theme still avalible down below....i absolutely could not find what i am searching for on this website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google
Subject then
site:forum.xda-developers.com
deskjet390 said:
Without changing to the old XDA theme down below (ie XDA 2015) which works amazingly well and advanced search is very useful and you can arrange your results that can come in the form of THREADS or individual POSTS and sort by relevance, last posting date, creation date....and the list goes on.
The search feature now you just begin typing and pray to god what you search for make something pop up close to what you are wanting. Good luck though because most likely the results are going to be in a terrible non chronilogical order (i have results pop up from 3 years ago....then very next result is from 2018 and all over the place!!)
How in the heck can you perform an advanced search without going down below and changing the theme to something OLD so that you can reach the "advanced search" button
The search plus feature is a piece of junk
Educate me on how the AVERAGE person is not immediately turned off and frustrated by this. If it wasn't for the old theme still avalible down below....i absolutely could not find what i am searching for on this website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's difficult to reach the advanced search form using the XDA 2015 theme indeed (I don't know if there's a reason for this...), but you still can use it here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php
I'm still in the process to find an easy way to go to this form using the xda 2015 theme though. I can't remind where it is located besides from any user's post history (see my screenshots, click on Search Forums)...
In the 2015 theme, the "regular" advanced search is located at the top of EVRY forum index page. Just click the gear icon next to the search box.
Okay.
This needs to be available at the top of the forums home page and easily identified.
I am not dumb, I am a long time xda user and know I'm not the only one that has struggled to search these forums the last few years.
The "search plus" feature is being thrown in front of us and trying to be forced down our throats but it's awful and it's a project that needs to be abandonned or a choice given at the fourm home portal.
deskjet390 said:
Okay.
This needs to be available at the top of the forums home page and easily identified.
I am not dumb, I am a long time xda user and know I'm not the only one that has struggled to search these forums the last few years.
The "search plus" feature is being thrown in front of us and trying to be forced down our throats but it's awful and it's a project that needs to be abandonned or a choice given at the fourm home portal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alternatively, you can use an older xda theme to be able to see a quick link to the advanced search feature on the top of the xda web page.