Related
Im sure that got your attention...
There seems to be some recent issues with the massive amounts of new members that just learned how to type but dont know how to read or click the search button located in the upper right corner of your screen...
Now look, enough is enough, if your not going to read, or search, or post things in the proper threads then dont ***** when your being flamed... This forum has very simple rules and i used to think they werent hard to follow...
some of you will say, "The search button doesnt work, just brings up a bunch of junk and i have to sift through useless threads and cant find what i am looking for".... anyone wanna guess why?!? its because of the people that post without reading, its becoming a cluttered mess and a few noob's short of xda-developers.howardsforums.com
So some suggestions before you post:
Search
Read the f*cking wiki
Make your posting it in the right thread
If you have to start a new topic then make sure you include very detailed information if you want help, otherwise you will be ignored
If you like a rom then dont waste thread space by telling the creator how much you like the rom, update your signature and proudly display what rom you are using, or donate some $ to XDA, or to the creator(s)
Be smart and the other members will play nice
Oh one other thing to the frequent senior members (or the ones that dont post useless ****)
Instead of flaming on the noob's(which i know is fun ) could we just ignore them instead? im shooting for a less hostile enviroment.
p.s. any useless replies to this topic could be subject to edit
my new hero
dude you are so my new hero
A heuristic noob post filter would be nice, automatically diverting such posts to the New Beginners Forum called /dev/null . . . or "Recycle Bin" for you Windows guys
Yes, lately there have been a huge number of new members, and yes, the noob questions are sometimes annoying.
But to
3) Flame the crap out of them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is in my opinion not the right way to react.
Some more or less senior members have tried that in the last few weeks, and it didn't work - there are still as many noob posts as there were before.
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel
tadzio said:
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you, moderators or seniors should never use such language, no matter hoe right they are.
Shogunmark and some other "seniors", you should be ashamed of yourself...
pietrucci said:
I totally agree with you, moderators or seniors should never use such language, no matter hoe right they are.
Shogunmark and some other "seniors", you should be ashamed of yourself...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to clarify: my comment wasn't directed towards shogunmark. In the first post of this thread, he also asks senior members to stop flaming noobs.
that might not be in a proper place to say , i may sound noob .
but i have a suggestion , why don't you make a spam bot like some forums do .
that spam bot detects autimatically any posts by the same user if they are close in time of posting ,
example : user named Noob posted 4 threads with the same exact content in less than 10 minutes .
"hi i'm noob and i don't know **** in this forum and i'm having fun ."
so the spam bot detect this noob posts and informs the moderators of it .
i hope it might help .
WBR
shogunmark said:
some of you will say, "The search button doesnt work, just brings up a bunch of junk and i have to sift through useless threads and cant find what i am looking for".... anyone wanna guess why?!? its because of the people that post without reading, its becoming a cluttered mess and a few noob's short of xda-developers.howardsforums.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in point of fact, the search button is "useless" because it defaults to the "show thread" mode in displaying query results. the "show thread" search result display mode presents only the topic ("thread / thread starter") under which the relevant result was posted (and thus only the ability to click into the thread from the first post). the response to any given query is therefore a list of top-level post titles (topics) which may or may not have relevance to the more deeply-nestled posts that the search engine has deemed pertinent to the user's inputted keywords/constraints. this is exacerbated by the default forum settings, which yield in excess of 50 display pages for many threads-- a condition that becomes all the more likely when a thread generates a lot of traffic/discourse (i.e.; when a thread might likely contain a worthwhile and relevant search result).
i find search results displayed in this fashion to be utterly useless. if i'm looking for an answer to question A, which was raised under topic X three weeks and 400 posts after the thread began, i'll never find it. i'd probably then start a new thread with just that already-answered question as it's topic-- certainly and evidently to the chagrin of moderators forum-wide, but within their power to remedy.
incidentally, what if any advantage is there to the default display method? i may be showing some naivete here, but i've never found it at all useful (quite the contrary); i use the forum's search engine only and precisely in those cases where my brain's proprietary search agency has failed-- that is, *because* no thread topic seems applicable to my question, i pose it to the engine, and on its default setting, it responds by reiterating the top-level subjects i've already discarded.
that is the very definition of uselessness in search results, the blame for which, i think, does not lay with new users as you claim, but with a (seemingly?) foolish server setting.
shogunmark said:
Instead of flaming on the noob's(which i know is fun ) could we just ignore them instead? im shooting for a less hostile enviroment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's never the new users who are hostile, though, is it? in fact, they're usually overly obsequious, probably owing to the fact that every time in the past that they've asked a question of one of the hallowed mobile-device-forum moderators, they've been made to feel stupid for lacking experience enough to solve their own problem. systematic ignorance of any one sector of the mobile device community would conspicuously diminish the broad appeal and utility of xda-developers amazing wealth of techknowledge.
Simple. When people register - send them an email that explains some of the forum do's and don'ts and how to search for individual posts.
I never meant for this to spark such a debate,
the point i wanted to make was this is a "technical development forum" and should be treated as such
if the situation spirals into too much garbage then the people who actually contribute to this community might give up due to frustration that could have otherwise been avoided.
i much prefer to be a forum troll rather than a post count hungry noise creator.
But at the moment even being a reader not poster sucks
/rant
endipott said:
in point of fact, the search button is "useless" because it defaults to the "show thread" mode in displaying query results. the "show thread" search result display mode presents only the topic ("thread / thread starter") under which the relevant result was posted (and thus only the ability to click into the thread from the first post). the response to any given query is therefore a list of top-level post titles (topics) which may or may not have relevance to the more deeply-nestled posts that the search engine has deemed pertinent to the user's inputted keywords/constraints. this is exacerbated by the default forum settings, which yield in excess of 50 display pages for many threads-- a condition that becomes all the more likely when a thread generates a lot of traffic/discourse (i.e.; when a thread might likely contain a worthwhile and relevant search result).
i find search results displayed in this fashion to be utterly useless. if i'm looking for an answer to question A, which was raised under topic X three weeks and 400 posts after the thread began, i'll never find it. i'd probably then start a new thread with just that already-answered question as it's topic-- certainly and evidently to the chagrin of moderators forum-wide, but within their power to remedy.
Blah blah blah
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you never seen the link for "SEARCH THIS THREAD"? its not hard.
I want to know, mmm, which SPL to use, i get a myriad of search results, some CLEARLY from the headers useful.
However, i've searched something a little more ambigeuos, i find and open what i feel are relevant threads, then search them. The 5 mins it takes to do that search will 99.9% of the time result in an answer, and take them less time than waiting for someone to answer.
Currently there are a massive amoun tof new idiots on the forums. Im fairly new myself, but i read the Wiki, read most of the current threads and searched before i asked for something. Its not hard.
Personally i think the forum needs for stronger moderation, in that users are given a three strike rule. Post utter rubbish without searchinig three times, and they become banned.
Clearly anyone not capable of the simplest of forum ettiqette doesnt belong here and will never really contribute anything.
tadzio
you dont have to be politically correct, you can name me as being a senior member who uses foul language. the fact of the matter is i dont give a crap!. i have to deal with hundreds of PM's per day asking the darn same thing and its getting frikken annoying.
i think from this point forward i will hold off on new builds of wm6 till this forum gets sorted.
One thing you have to realise, these noobs who ask the same darn thing over and over again are mostly (not all) here NOT to contribute to the vast pool of knowledge, they are here to frikken leach, then if something dont work for them they frikken complain, *****, winge, and post numerious threads and posts.
I am not ashamed of myself because i dont give a ****.... i think i got the right to use foul language when enough is enough.,
my ****en 2cents worth!
anybody doest like what i am saying can go **** themselves and use wm5! Welcome to the Land Down Under ****wits!
tadzio said:
Yes, lately there have been a huge number of new members, and yes, the noob questions are sometimes annoying.
But to
is in my opinion not the right way to react.
Some more or less senior members have tried that in the last few weeks, and it didn't work - there are still as many noob posts as there were before.
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tadzio,
the wiki might be outdated with some information but not the basic! which is the answers to 90% of the questions asked! Im with Jaz in that they are here for one thing and thats to leech and leave, if there is a problem then ***** and whinge... i thought this was 'xda-developers' not 'xda-noobs', i have some patience for noobs for resonable questions but when they download a ROM and cannot be bothered to read the 'How To' and where to post sections enough is enough... its hard enough for us Cookers to keep track of real bugs and issues enough without sifting through useless threads about crap.
i came here for one thing to broaden my knowledge of PDA's and Windows Mobile and i have learnt so much from this site, because i read and read before posting.
I am not ashamed of the way i speak to ppl who dont take the time to read the pages that we write to help benefit the noobs in the first place.
my ****n two cents!
tadzio said:
Just to clarify: my comment wasn't directed towards shogunmark. In the first post of this thread, he also asks senior members to stop flaming noobs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was so funny ...
Oops, sorry but I really couldn't help it.
Mr Tadzio just means well. You can see he does not want to offend anyone as you can see from his immediate note.
I'm also a newbie, as you can see from the amount of my posts, but I really really really try to search and read everything you guys post. It is a difficult task, though, to encourage everyone to read, read and read and then ask questions later but I guess nothing comes easy.
I also like the 'heuristic programming' to block noobs from posting. Hilarious. Like, you can create key phrases like 'how do you hard-reset' or 'where are the office applications' and just block them from posting. haha
jasjamming said:
Welcome to the Land Down Under ****wits!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That must be from the live version of the Men At Work song...
junior my self
I agree with the senior members, Mods, as a junior I flashed my universal countless of times without asking too much questions on the board it just took time reading through the wiki and sometimes reading through the posts relating to topics you want your question to be answered.
Having bought my new MDA Vario II it took me one week reading through the wiki, forums almost everything topic relating to Upgrading my device and the risks involved, since my first flash i havent encounter any bad flash of sort.
I read through the posts every hour and sometimes, I get irritated of the questions been asked repeatedly, so in terms of the senior members, Rom Cookers devoting thier own time giving us thier great work to share and let our devices look and feel as if it couldnt be better the least we do is just read, think and just before posting just think ( Is this question been mentioned before?)
I think the Mods,senior members should introduce some sort of membership before registering to new or to make it fair even existing members as to lessen new members who just want to come and go when they find what they want and also this would incorporate fundings towards XDA DEVELOPERS,
jUST MY 5CENTS
where can I download photon....
Eh?
.... seriously though... I used to have problems with the search function - hadnt taken the time to use the "show posts" option rather than the "show threads". Once I'd made the switch.. easy street...
mxlaser said:
Have you never seen the link for "SEARCH THIS THREAD"? its not hard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, we'll i spent about a year on the site thinking i couldn't use the search function at all because of the issue discussed above, only to recently discover the "search posts" option. you've just blown my mind with that "search thread." maybe now i'll be able to enable the internal gps on the hermes or successfully cook a simple damn ext_rom. ok, so i really missed the boat on the search functionality, but this illuminates the apparently widespread issue of search confusion, no? there is no treatment on queries in the wiki of any kind, aimed either at beginners or SQL engineers. i'm really rather technologically adept (notwithstanding present evidence to the contrary) and for whatever reason, i, too, managed to miss those functions. now, granted, in two years this is the first discussion i've been involved in, so obviously i worked silently through that very newbish failure to read the whole page without disturbing any other community members, but we can't expect all people who find themselves in the possession of a PPC to be able to immediately comprehend all that's needed in order for them to even begin to practically consider messing with the device.
unwired's point here is "simple," (as advertised) but really kind of elegant. i'd maybe extend it thus: perhaps someone (i clearly am not qualified, having missed that button which would have saved me many fruitless google domain searches) should draft a wiki treatment of the query interface. perhaps another could take up general forum ettiquette. mxlaser, maybe you could take up an introduction to SPL. make each section efficient and accurate, and call it the "new member welcome package." update the FAQ. do these things, and then you have a right to "flame" users who abrogate those then explicitly-posted regulations.
ultimately, the only way to ensure that threads stay on topic and avoid duplication is to heavily moderate. intrusive measures like probationary no-posting periods for new users run counter to the underlying concept of this type of web forum. i don't know how any system of regulations would or could work, but moderators should at least be deleting off-topic posts, and removing those other posts, too. you know the ones, where established users get all angry at a newbie for something or other and wax profane about how that newbie might better spend his time? yeah, well, those just waste more of everyone else's. if someone wants to give me privileges, i'd take on the challenge of cleaning up a little corner of the xda universe.
just as long as we're all on about the moderators, i think we should remember something my grandpa used to say: "everything in moderation, including moderation..."
oh also quickly:
mxlaser said:
Clearly anyone not capable of the simplest of forum ettiqette doesnt belong here and will never really contribute anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in which canon of bulletin-board etiquette did you read that it was acceptable to intentionally misquote the person to whom you are responding? ["blah blah blah"] that seems to me to be a pretty simple, basic, fundamental requirement of discussion forums in general, i.e.: respect the written record... it looks as if you're behind in the count; you'd better protect the plate...
Can the board software be modded to set search posts as default?
I need a diligent overseer to delete my account on xda-developers.com, please. vBulletin doesn't seem to give that option anywhere.
I can't have my words edited unless I'm the one doing the editing.
Thank you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: I have merged all three threads so everyone can post their feedback to moderators. Please, no flaming allowed. If you want to say something, say it politely and like some members already mentioned, let's be one big happy family i.e. come together and make this place a friendlier and a peaceful place without the need to leave the forum, point fingers at anyone or flame someone. If you guys want something done, PM us or any mods your request or concerns. We'll see to it that it will done based on the subject on hand.
Everyone is Welcome here and I'd like to keep it that way. If your upset with something, come to us so we can come to an agreement because we want everyone to be happy and not otherwise.
Enjoy your stay here, not regret signing up because XDA is wonderful place for us to come share our thoughts, contribute to the community and obviously, make some good friends while we're here.
Thanks for your co-operation in this matter, guys.
Best Regards,
lukybandit
What happened? You planning on leaving XDA? I wouldn't want you to as you put in a lot of efforts in keepin the wiki up to date. Your the only one who ever took interest in it and without you, we wouldn't have had any updates on the wiki and because of you, It was easier to compile a thread and sticky it. So please re-consider your decision.
On a side note, if mods did edit your posts, they have full right to. I don't know why a mod edited your posts but if you did use profanity or do something else, we're given right to either delete or edit a post but if it keeps happening for no reason, then by all means - report it.
Hope you do re-consider your decision.
No, I haven't reconsidered. Nor did I ask to be deleted to draw attention to myself. I would have done so quietly if the option were available.
But since it's out there ...I never saw anything in the posting rules about profanity. In fact, you, lukybandit, are fond of using some when you have problems (see the phantom alarm bug.) I did notice the posting rules calling this a "sacred place." If someone's words don't belong to him, there is no sanctity. In short, you all need to stop using the royal "we" a bit, coordinate your efforts better among yourselves, and stop creating problems where none exist. You're here to serve us, not the other way around.
My words are just that: MY words. If a mod has a problem with me or my speech, he should tell me, NOT edit my posts. I don't care if it's in your moderator handbook that you have the "right" to. Your right is wrong.
Power corrupts and I enjoy freedom. Please do me the honor of deleting my account.
beartard said:
No, I haven't reconsidered. Nor did I ask to be deleted to draw attention to myself. I would have done so quietly if the option were available.
But since it's out there ...I never saw anything in the posting rules about profanity. In fact, you, lukybandit, are fond of using some when you have problems (see the phantom alarm bug.) I did notice the posting rules calling this a "sacred place." If someone's words don't belong to him, there is no sanctity. In short, you all need to stop using the royal "we" a bit, coordinate your efforts better among yourselves, and stop creating problems where none exist. You're here to serve us, not the other way around.
My words are just that: MY words. If a mod has a problem with me or my speech, he should tell me, NOT edit my posts. I don't care if it's in your moderator handbook that you have the "right" to. Your right is wrong.
Power corrupts and I enjoy freedom. Please do me the honor of deleting my account.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, now that you have infact pointed fingers at me - I'd like to make myself clear on this one. I just went through all my posts and the ONLY word I ever said was "Damn" - and you tell me I'm fond of using profanity? Good try but it's not going to work. Is saying "AHH and saying This is annoying" wrong? Please correct me if that were the case.
Power does corrupt but if there's power to remove people that flame others or use profanity, then that power is just - hence the word "Moderator". If you go to other forums, many senior mods delete and edit posts so as to keep this forum a clean, better place.
If someone's words that belong to him were allowed in every place, including sacred places - then I wonder how this world would be. You'd find people swearing in business meetings or insulting others in sacred places. Anyways, to cut it short -
Thanks for the wiki.
Your request will be fulfilled. However, I or the other mods don't have the right to delete you as only the Site Admin has the option of deleting you.
Last but not the least, Funny you mention we are creating problems when we're trying hard to collaborate and make this forum a much better place. Never did we intend to use the royal word "we" but hey, if you want to think like that, then all the POWER to you.
P.S: If you don't care if it's in the Moderator handbook, then we won't hesitate to remove you, either.
(On a personal note, I never thought problems existed. I don't know where I or any other mod went wrong because we tried to accommodate everyone's requests and keep everyone happy, but hey they say everything takes time and I guess it will take you time as well to understand that what "WE" do is only for the forums benefit and not trying to abuse the so - called "Power".)
Good Day.
I didn't mention your posts to point fingers, but just by way of example.
Thought police often collaborate to make the world a better place. Where is this list of forbidden words? "Damn" and "hell" are ok, but a link to "justfuckinggoogleit.com" isn't? It's a real website, btw. Are certain words said in jest worse than paragraphs haranguing users saying they should die in a fire (sorry, gixxum...much respect to you). I think that was received with laughs by everyone.
When you guys got the moderator-ship, I was happy. I figured, "nice. Now a lot of duplicate posts will be cleaned up and things will be easier to find." Instead we finally had the iron curtain lowered on our very words and thoughts. Where do you draw the line?
Collaboration is a good thing. And I know you are all feeling good that you have been made moderators. The first sign that things were weird was when all three moderators came down on a newbie saying the same thing back-to-back. That was laughable, but I have to draw the line at changing my words.
I just can't see myself being a part of something like that. It's supposed to be a forum for adults to discuss their phones, not a Baptist children's summer camp.
Thank you for seeing that my request is fulfilled.
i have to say I agree with beatard
I totally agree that moderation power was abused.
The rule that was supposedly broken if I understand correctly is this:
8. Stay cool
Think of this as a on-line temple. A sacred place, dedicated to collaboration, learning and collective wisdom. Don't shout and try not to get angry. Maybe the world should adhere more to the basic filosofy of Internet protocol design: "Be strict about what you send, and liberal about what you receive". This forum has people from all countries, cultures and levels of mental maturity. This means that no matter what you're like, you'll have to adjust to people that are most definitely not like you. But on the other hand, try to be gentle with people, even in the event they're not gentle with you. It will gain you many reputation points if you help to keep the peace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what was changed? The change that I saw was changing a link to "http://justfuckinggoogleit.com" to show the text "http://justfriggin(edited)googleit.com" but still link to the same site.
First of all, I think it is extremely bad form to claim to link to one site, and actually be a link to a different site. But that is beside the point.
beatard's post was quite within the rule stated above:
The standard answer for ROM searches is: you can rip them from cartridges you own yourself. While having emulators is perfectly fine, having ROMs for carts you don't own is illegal in most of the world. Sharing them on this forum would put the site in legal jeopardy as well, so you're not gonna get very much good info here.
http://justfuckinggoogleit.com is your best bet, as well as searching your favorite bittorrent site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A very calm, useful, and even funny answer to the ethernal question "where do I find the ROMS?" Much better than some of the recent answers to "can I have this or that recent game", and much calmer. Notice that the edit done to the post did not at all change the "Stay cool"ness factor of the post. I do not think that the function of the moderators is "to wash the mouths of posters with soap". Instead I would think that they should quietly pm posters in borderline cases and intervene in extreme cases when pm did not help.
And finally, are you aware that by editing posts the site makes itself liable because of what is said, which is not the case when posts are not edited? See, e.g. http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/blogspotting/archives/2005/08/is_it_riskier_t.html
But, I want to thank all the moderators for the work that was done in the recent weeks - the forum did get much better! But we (I) would like to keep the forum a nice and happy place, and it is very obvious that you did manage to upset beatard (and me too, after I noticed what happened).
8. Stay cool
Think of this as a on-line temple. A sacred place, dedicated to collaboration, learning and collective wisdom. Don't shout and try not to get angry. Maybe the world should adhere more to the basic filosofy of Internet protocol design: "Be strict about what you send, and liberal about what you receive". This forum has people from all countries, cultures and levels of mental maturity. This means that no matter what you're like, you'll have to adjust to people that are most definitely not like you. But on the other hand, try to be gentle with people, even in the event they're not gentle with you. It will gain you many reputation points if you help to keep the peace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry... This is TOTALLY off-topic. But--"filosofy"? Seriously?
This thread is really getting out of hand. Most of this thread is about freedom of speech vs. common decency. I respect that some people cannot speak or write without using what is better known as foul language, but I feel sometimes a little bit of restraint will go a long way. It will bring more people to this forum since there ALOT of people that don't care to hear or see that kind of language. We can ultimately answer questions or give opinions about stuff without being harsh with our words. With that said.... Flar (Admin) has been notified about your request and hopefully will fulfill your request ASAP.
Sorry, I just had to reopen this thread to put in my thoughts.
I'm surprised by some of the comments people are making. Not once did I think to myself, oh let's abuse the "moderator power" that I got. If you think so, then I can't comment on that. I'm still lost as to what "I" personally did to upset any of the members on this forum.
In regards to the police collaborating to make this forum a better place, that we are doing every chance we get. You have to understand that it doesn't give us any pleasure to edit or delete posts. We are given that option only to edit/delete posts that flame others, spam or use profanity.
We are and were trying hard to clean this place up. For example: If you want to point your fingers at pudgedaddy, then please tell me - what does he get for sitting for "HOURS" cleaning up threads and deleting useless threads? Obviously, he's only trying to do what it takes for your benefit, not his own.
If I went wrong somewhere and upset a few members, I apologize but that never was my intention. I only did what was necessary and not because I enjoy editing or deleting posts.
Last but not the least, we are trying to do what it takes to make the Excalibur and other forums cleaner and better for your own use. If a Moderator says refrain from using profanity, why's it so hard to comply? That's like you in a class blatantly swearing and a teacher comes to you and is like " Refrain from using profanity" - What are you going to say? Oh, It's my mouth, I'll speak however I like.
Anyways, In regards to the link, I'm unaware as to what happened.
All in all, Thanks for being here and contributing to the community but if you ever re-consider, we'd be happy to take you back.
Good Luck & Hope you enjoyed your time here (disregarding the recent stirrups).
Leaving this forum
I agree with Beartard.
"If I went wrong somewhere and upset a few members, I apologize but that never was my intention. I only did what was necessary and not because I enjoy editing or deleting posts." a moderator
I am allergic to such behaviour. My fault. Unfortunately the thread was closed so I have to open a new one to ask for to delete my account.
I do appreciate the great efforts made by Kavana and many other contributors!
wow. this is gettin crazy.
It definitely is getting crazy. I'm surprised at the reactions of a few members. If anyone had any concerns whatsoever, why was I not notified? Noone ever complained to me or said anything to me.
I'm still confused as to where I wronged anyone at all. I wasn't active in the past 3 days and I'm unaware of any recent stirrups.
I don't know why I'm being attacked because it's understandable if I upset someone but if I did, then howcome noone ever told me? Infact, I got PM's from a few members congratulating me and saying good work is being done.
Anyways, It's upto you guys. If you want to leave, by all means do but we don't hold responsibility as we always had good intentions for everyone and this forum as a whole. On one end, you guys say good job and on the other end, you say you want to leave because we are moderating your posts. Please refer to the word "Moderator" in the dictionary. Maybe then you will understand why we do what we do.
If we were getting paid, then that's a completely different issue. We do this out of the love for this forum, not our own benefit. We are talking and trying to do as much as we can for this forum. Infact, I have made a few friends (not mods) here too who I talk on a regular basis.
Anyways, Good Luck to everybody and like I previously said in the other thread, our doors are open to you guys 24/7.
If you want to be a part of us then all you need to do is comply with rules & regulations, ask us questions, search, download .cabs like NRG Weather and finally, enjoy your time here !
why are people getting mad left and right shoot, for real come on now guys we should all be a family and try to help each other out...
oh an another thing, i think peoples posts should stay, who cares honestly if the f word is thrown here and there, it doesnt even matter we are majority all adults here and we can take that language, being in college like myself no one really cares about curse words and what not, i use them all the time.
I'm all for being a family and being happy together. I even apologized even though, I don't recall doing anything. Infact, I don't recall editing any posts for profanity.
Anyways, Guys - Cmon now, You do know that XDA's the best place to be so relax, calm down - let it go.
I'll have a talk with other mods and things will be a bit more chill if that's how you guys prefer it to be.
If I can be of any help, don't hesitate because I'd be more than happy to help and do whatever it takes for everyone to be happy around here.
XDA's my 2nd home so let's keep it like that, what say?
as you can see, yes we like it chill. how about instead of worrying about language you close some threads that noobs with 1 post start about topics that have been gone over 400000 times. and not close threads by valued members such as beartard....then reopen to get the final say...then close again so no one can post after your high and mighty final word.
DO SOMETHING WORTH WHILE. EDITING THE WORD **** IS NOT WORTH WHILE.
lukybandit said:
I'm all for being a family and being happy together. I even apologized even though, I don't recall doing anything. Infact, I don't recall editing any posts for profanity.
Anyways, Guys - Cmon now, You do know that XDA's the best place to be so relax, calm down - let it go.
I'll have a talk with other mods and things will be a bit more chill if that's how you guys prefer it to be.
If I can be of any help, don't hesitate because I'd be more than happy to help and do whatever it takes for everyone to be happy around here.
XDA's my 2nd home so let's keep it like that, what say?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright 'bandit... If you'll notice--no one has blamed you man. The only time your name was mentioned was when your previous use of profanity wasn't spotlighted as others were. You guys (the Mods) have done a great job cleaning up the obsolete threads and establishing order in one of the most active forums in xda.
As I mentioned to Pudgedaddy--it kinda shocks me when someone's freedom of speech is in question. I myself detest (nor do I use) foul language, but I think it's downright eerie to know that my own words can be altered without my knowledge. Warnings, deletions, and even bans are cool with me to enforce the "no language" rule but don't change my words.
I Love This Forum, I Just Gotta Say.........
I am friends with everybody that enters these forum walls. I really like it that me and people like me have a place to go to find and discuss with others the way things could or should work on our phones and/or programs that we and others write.
I am friends with mods, no names mentioned, I am friends with folks that hate the mods, no names mentioned. I try to be everyone's friend, and the way I think I am having luck with this so far is by being honest, frank, upfront, and decent to people. I apply these standards in my life, always. That doesn't mean that if someone wants to start some crap, I won't deliver. I will, but we don't even know each other here. This is for all intensive purposes, cyberspace. I don't know what color the person I am talking to is, or race, or creed. Guess what, I don't care. I just want some answers, and am willing to give some in the process.
I wanted to be a mod to clean up the forum, but not clean up the discussions. I just wanted to organize them. I am not talking smack about how things are run here. I am not in charge, so I don't know the in's and out's of being a mod. I just hope they do what they know is the best job they can. I think when you are made a mod, that puts you in a higher regard than everyone else that frequents these forums.
I was in the AF for a bit. I know one thing, the reason the American people shouldn't worry about who is watching them, is not because of EVERY member that is defending them. It is the leaders. The leaders of our nation and all nations are there to do just that, LEAD. I know that they do a poor job what seems like constantly, but let's not kid ourselves here. Everyone that is old seems to always have the notion that the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and the young think everything is Disneyland. We as leaders are there to uphold the ideals instilled by our system of rules. Our goal is simple as leaders: " Life should go on as 'Normal',otherwise keep the peace and backoff." I think we all know this is the way it is supposed to be. It's funny that we need people to remind us this.
I just want all of the mods to know, they are appreciated. That is really all they should want, AND that is all they really deserve. This is a volunteered position. If it is becoming too stressful, take a chill pill and step down. Stay on the forum and be one of the regular guys. It's not so bad. LOL!!
To everyone that's just a regular joe on these forums, thanks for being here. We were all noobs at one point. You won't always be if you stick with it. I know I will. I hope if any of you have any probs, that you come to one of the mods and speak your mind. If you feel weird about doing it, pm me or Showaco or somebody like one of us that isn't a mod, and we'll see what we can get done.
I just want to add this:
We as people should be and are capable of governing ourselves on small squabbles and other such matters. As men, we know this rule, it is part of becoming a man, you don't run home to momma, and you don't call the cops (Unless, you totally gotta on the cops). All people should be aiming to have a society where we don't have to have any governing body, and we all "just get along". This is how Webster's dictionary defines anarchy, a total absence of government in a utopian society.
Sorry, not trying to get all preachy, but I love this place and want everything to run smoothely. Just had to say it.
It's all good, brother!
You are doing a great job. If you could do a better one in your opinion, then do a better job, otherwise keep on doing what you do. Later on brother, take it easy.
lukybandit said:
I'm all for being a family and being happy together. I even apologized even though, I don't recall doing anything. Infact, I don't recall editing any posts for profanity.
Anyways, Guys - Cmon now, You do know that XDA's the best place to be so relax, calm down - let it go.
I'll have a talk with other mods and things will be a bit more chill if that's how you guys prefer it to be.
If I can be of any help, don't hesitate because I'd be more than happy to help and do whatever it takes for everyone to be happy around here.
XDA's my 2nd home so let's keep it like that, what say?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree with the freedom of speech thing. how about this, instead of changing my words, just delete the post. dont change peoples words....the ruins the point of a public bbs/forum.
do we sit in a circle now and hold hands? maybe sing a song?
Although some members may get p*ssed maybe one phone forum at a time. Yeah those who have to wait till you get to their phone may not be happy but it should be less chaotic if the thread is limited to a particular phone.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
My suggestion:
1. Be specific in your post. If you don't want us asking questions to which you've already composed answers, please post the questions you have so we don't repeat them. We cannot read your mind when you say, "I have your questions so don't ask the same ones."
2. Designate a moderator solely to that post. Probably not feasible, but if the moderator can make it primary focus, it can be kept civil and clean. A little work, but it could help the community.
3. While moderating, do not delete people's posts. If a question is posted that is being considered by SamsungJohn, simply replace the text with "Question is being addressed" or "Content does not benefit thread"
People are extremely disappointed in the whole communication realm amongst Samsung and Sprint so of course they're going to be a little raw. That's why it's extremely important to be VERY SPECIFIC in what you have and what you are looking for.
Next post example: "Here is the list of questions I will be addressing soon: 1) 2) 3), etc. Outside of those questions, are there any others you'd like addressed?"
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
daryelv said:
My suggestion would be to have a live "meeting" that is controlled and moderated by a few moderators here at XDA. Users could log-in, forward their questions to the moderator, and they would forward to SamsungJohn. This would remove all the questions about "When" that everyone wants to ask and instead focus on what SamsunhJohn wants to support in the "How".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would doubt SamsungJohn is going to answer questions on the fly. He needs to time I guess to see if he can answer such questions. Actually I don't recall him saying he was going to answer any questions. He just wants us to ask questions that would benefit Galaxy S phones. Bug or defects that the phone may have.
Probably would be best to put it in the hands of moderators. They can weed out the repeat questions and all the where is froyo questions and maybe just pm a clean list of questions instead of having a thread that's gonna go straight to hell.
Sent from my SPH-M900 using XDA App
othan1 has the best suggestion so far.
Unfortunately, with the gigantic amount of negative feeling about Samsung right now, I don't think its wise to do any Q&A before a Froyo source is released. Thats when technical questions will be much more relevant.
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
PUT OUT OR GET OUT.
STOP THE BULLSHIIT
I HOPE THERE IS A CLASS ACTION SUIT For producing a piece of crap phone that doesn't work and then not producing fixed or updates.
dwallersv said:
This experiment failed for two main reasons, each the fault of each "side" respectively.
John came here with apparently good intentions, and raised a lot of hope. Initial response by most in the community was cordial and polite, if skeptical.
Then, gargantuan failure #1: John created substantial anticipation and excitement about some as-yet-secret "HUGE" announcement. When it turned out it was simply a reiteration of his presence, and role here, it was understandably an enormous let-down. It also, quite understandably, made a lot of people angry, feeling they had been played and duped.
John, this was entirely forseeable. Really. Obvious. If you understood that the hype ahead of the actual was mismatched, and you did it anyway, that doesn't speak well for your credibility.
If you did not understand how completely discordant the hype was and the actual announcement, then it demonstrates a naivete so profound that credibility is also severely damaged.
Mistake #2 was on the part of the community. In all it's anger and rage over mistake #1, the community was ridiculously unreasonable regarding questions and demands in response. Each of the SamsungJohn threads was pummeled with dozens of questions, and then criticism for lack of answers in a timespan of 1-2 hours. How utterly childish and ridiculous.
A 24-hour commitment to get answers back would be extraordinary. It takes time to get to the right people, get enough of their time to explain the issue, and then completely understand the answer. I'd find even a 48-hour response commitment to be more than fair.
So, in summary, from my perspective (that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee) Samsung blew it again by not understanding and/or taking this community seriously. The community blew it by being a bunch of hypersensitive hyenas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen...... But I would have to say that him being here and wanting to work with the community IS a huge announcement. I hope that we can all try and see the possibilities here, as opposed to tying him to the nearest tree and crucifying him. Is xda not about the free exchange of ideas as a community? I hope on the next attempt we can be civil, and actually accomplish something
This whole interaction failed because Samsung still has no idea what they are doing:
1. SamsungJohn says he has been watching the forums
2. If he has been watching, WHY does he need anyone to post technical questions
3. The problems with all the Galaxy S phones are well documented - here and with Samsung
4. Samsung offers no real support and so they think a forum will help them organize suppport issues
5. Samsung is more concerned with selling product then fixing issues
6. He offered nothing from Samsung to start this - Samsung should be extending an olive branch (the technical equivalent anyway) but they gave us nothing
7. Samsung changed their message from "Froyo by End of year" to "coming whenever"
8. Customers have lost faith and are moving on
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.
Most of us will not let ourselves be fooled twice. I am tired of technology companies promising fixes and not delivering.
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is why they posted here. So they can spread the 'outreach' news.
They know the issues. They've known the issues since August. Coming here and asking us what the issues are without even hinting anything will annoy most of the Galaxy S userbase.
Add to that, the 'huge' announcement was a thread to ask us what the issues with the phone are?
Me thinks John needs to be a bit more careful with the words he chooses. Very poor choice.
Huge would be telling us that 2.3 is on the way or we are all getting free upgrades to the Nexus S. Thats huge.
Telling us you are a liason from Samsung trying to bridge the communications gap is not huge. Thats to be expected from a professional company such as yours. Do no expect us to jump for joy over things you are expected to do.
stoobie-doo said:
SamsungMobileUS is tweeting this link at MobileCrunch
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/02...ns-samsung-opens-dialogue-with-xda-dev-forum/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
retweet this:
http://twitter.com/#!/vorathe/status/37634312098693120
I really think before SamsungJohn posts a Q&A thread he really needs to lay out ground rules specific to what he can talk about and what he can't.But really I think that without being sble to ask about future updates like froyo and other fixes for our phone there really is no point in even putting up a Q&A thread because the only stuff we all care about we are told not to ask about so it really is a pointless jesture.Othan1 pretty much hit the nail on the head with his post of suggestions but knowing what can be asked along with that would go a long ways to keeping things on track and not turning the thread into a mess of pissed off people.
Seems like all SamsungJohn posts have been deliberately 'hidden' from view. They all started in the general forum, one got moved to off-topic and the other one is in the about xda-developer.com forum?
WTH is going on guys?
next one will be in the winmo section... NOBODY will find it there!!! muwahahaha!
My concern here is that the forum is being broken up, into elite users, and peasants. Those of us who aren't part of the elite group, are being treated like don't deserve to know whats going on. Either everyone has an equal say, and have access to the same information, or we might as well switch to iphone (because Apple doesn't let us know what's going on either).
This whole matter is being treated by both parties incredibly poorly. I understand it's a big move for both parties, but it's disturbing that a move which is apparently related to improving transparency, simultaneously is being done behind closed doors !
Made a new post in general: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=958106
it'll either get locked/removed or one of the mods will provide an answer.
Ok, i know people should use the search button before posting a question, or submitting an incorrect fact BUT SERIOUSLY every other reply is just another person insulting someone else!
I know it's hard to keep your cool sometimes with people asking/stating the same things over and over, but is there rely the need to be an a*s about it. All thats going to do is provoke a reaction (Because everyone is invincible on the internet) and that will just lead to more useless posting, which if i'm right thats what you were trying to prevent in the first place!
This is not an attack on any person, nor is it meant to cause offense, but honestly forums are about friendship where everyone can come and gain advice/guidance or just have a nice chat to learn(Everyone has to start somewhere) and a lot of people on here are not helping them. Would you like to have someone talk to you like that when you were just starting out and didn't have a clue what you were doing?. . . NO you would want an easy answer so you could learn from it, in the same amount of time it takes to flame someone for not knowing it you could have told the the bloody answer!
I know I'll properly get a lot of people flaming me for this but just needed to get this out my system because i think its out of order.
Like me mum used to say "If you ain't got anything nice to say, pi*s off!"
Billy_M
Billy. said:
I know I'll properly get a lot of people flaming me for this but just needed to get this out my system because i think its out of order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you get flamed when all you said is an honest truth?
The forum is full of morons and self appointed forum nazis, hell I could name a few in a split second who do this all the time...
This behaviour is probably induced by the lack of moderator presence. This Desire subforum has couple of thousand posts daily, and I see only two moderators listed.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Like it or not, this is a forum - and a HUGE one at that, as erklat has said, thousands of posts each day. This make stringent enforcement hard.
And every forum that I have ever been to seemed to have (sadly, but is it avoidable?) a social structure, whether clearly displayed or not - and probably, that's the way its going to be (for a long time to come).
oursoul said:
Too many ******* can't take bit if banter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
big difference between taking the piss out of someone and abusing them tho....
it comes down to laziness on users. People want information given to them on a plate and not have to find it themselves. The issue is that rule number 1 of the forum rules is to search
If you can't follow a simple rule then you deserve to get flamed
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
So maybe I'm just reading the handfull of threads that are being actively policed by the moderators...
Or maybe I have a really thick skin..
Or maybe the very few people whom I do see getting flamed actually deserve what they're getting (i.e. those who expressly list in their post that they can't be arsed to search and those who have the gall to post in developer threads with "your rom sucks, I'll never use it unless you add ...")..
Whatever the cause, I simply don't agree with your observation. People here are being genuinely helpful and the mods are doing a great job cleaning up bad posts and flames (as evidenced by those "thread cleaned" posts every now and then).
Depends on the section. It's ruined the Dev section because of leniency so there's a major clamp-down now in process, which I obviously applaud.
I have not till date seen anyone of thousands ask a valid question/concern and be policed, ridiculed or flamed. The help here is extremely benevolent and common. However, hundreds make invalid, undeserving posts justifying scorn but get away with it with smiles in response. That's the other, bigger side of what you mention.
I hate the playground child forum behavior immensely too. Trust me, so do the mods I've come across. I've seen quite a few past the limits on this. The users who reply and continuously flame are usually just as bad, except the one offs and the ones justified. They're meant to simply report the one breaking the rules and mods will deal with them as justified.
In my limited experience, 99% of those opposing/objecting to following the set rules don't have a clue about them but have big mouths and like to talk any nonsense to justify what they did. They are clueless about the rules on xda-dev and what this place is all about long before they were ever aware of it. The 'mantra' here. They come on here expecting the place to follow their own personal beliefs and rules, just causing havoc. That's why mods say, if you be so, better find somewhere else. And if a user repeats the obvious oft-repeated, that insults and offends everyone. It's a spit in their face, and of the mods, and it is bound to anger many with justification. Those who abide by the rules have placed much time and effort in doing so. Don't expect them to just laugh around while another just comes storming in trampling on them with great disregard. The same goes in every sphere of life.
The internet shows time and time again how modern society en-masse fails grossly in the honesty, decency, humility, intelligence and mentality departments. Greed, ego and stupidity rule, that's why places like xda-dev need to have firm rules enforced to maintain some quality. This place was always known for quality, and having spoken to mods, I know they work hard - for free - to maintain it as so. Be human, have some regard for them and others here before posting.
------------------------------
- Sent via HTC Desire -
What I would ask, is that people who see something that offends you, report it.
We can't read every post in every forum, but I can tell you that each and every report is seen and acted upon. We rely on members helping us to root out the bad apples.
This is what I've posted in the Oxygen thread. I think it sums up my feelings on this subject.
The frustration shown here by both AdamG, and _thalamus, must surely give people an indication of how annoying it is to see a thread be totally ruined by people who are too lazy to try and help themselves.
It's sad that you need reminded that the people who develop roms and post them here, do so for no personal gain, and do so to try and help us all get the best possible user experience from our devices.
The sad fact of life in today's society is that people want to be spoon-fed, they are too lazy to carry out a simple piece of research, and they demand that they get what they want, when they want. Then once they get it, they demand more. This is not what XDA-Developers is all about. If you need to ask what this forum is for, then you surely are in the wrong place.
Please take a moment and ask yourself, do you find your device now runs faster, smoother, is faster updated etc? If the answer is yes, then that is down to the dedication of the developers here. If you drive them away with your laziness, rudeness, demands etc, then you only have yourself to blame.
Please show the developers some respect. If you feel they owe you something, then do us all a favour and move on to somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, bad apples
erklat said:
This behaviour is probably induced by the lack of moderator presence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. This behaviour is usually induced by a severe lack of self esteem on the part of the bully.
In my opinion, if a question is deemed flammable, just report it instead of answering.
This can achieve two goals. People will start to understand that it will be faster to search instead of demand. And for those "Are we there yet"s, each unjustified bumps/reposts would count as multiples infractions. Thus, a faster banning.
I must agree will that
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
ignore?
As with all twats to cross in your way and hurl abuse.....IGNORE them,we are adults.most of us anyway..why is there a thread for this lol.
DoomFragger said:
In my opinion, if a question is deemed flammable, just report it instead of answering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's very true. Flaming somebody for an idiotic post instead of reporting it makes about as much sense as posting only "Cool, thanks" instead of using the "Thanks" button. Waste of space.
I have noticed recentlyl that that the people who know stuff have reduced their posts. This is counter productive. But I can understand why. And I've seen some bad advice given by others.
Don't know what the solution is tho....
Bye
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
mikep99 said:
I have noticed recentlyl that that the people who know stuff have reduced their posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe they get tired of answering the same questions over and over.
At least, instead of flaming, they just ignore it.
foresterr said:
Flaming somebody for an idiotic post instead of reporting it makes about as much sense as posting only "Cool, thanks" instead of using the "Thanks" button. Waste of space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You got totally wrong perception about flaming. If someone posts a question about recommended radio for the tenth time, and you go with flaming and rudeness, it points out one and only thing - you are even worse than him/her, he is not in the violation of the forum rules, you are. In that situation you either respond to help, or you don't respond at all. A binary choice. You are either a smoker or a non smoker. You can't be a moron in that story and smoke an electronic cigar. Well, this is similar.
Sometimes I reply to silly posts, sometimes I don't. I don't make a drama out of it. The problem of this and other forums are illiterate halfwits who are unable to keep a decent intellectual and communicational level in their posts.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
erklat said:
The problem of this and other forums are illiterate halfwits who are unable to keep a decent intellectual and communicational level in their posts.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just because someones primary language might not be English doesn't make them an illiterate halfwit. I think many of the communication issues in this and other forums can be chalked up to a language barrier.
I got flamed a bit in the post i made about ROMs. Pissed me off a bit, but i just ignored it.
As someone new to this forum, but some experience in other specialized forums for many years I was at first surprised and then a bit angered about the massive amount of totally useless posts.
I bought my first smartphone last year and after some weeks I found in xda the richest fountain of information. The first time it is not easy to learn, especially if you have to wade through pages and pages of silly, pointless and sometimes downright dumb posts. Extremely annoying are the repeated questions about a problem, which is explained thouroughly in the first 3 or 4 posts of a thread, as this is a proof for the total disregard of the OP, who is often the developer.
I think, this "I wanna be spoon-fed and pampered"-behaviour is actually encouraged in our society - the sad point is, in the late nineties these kind of people couldn´t post in forums - it was simply too complicated for them to use a computer
Today every simpleton with the ability to push a button can post in forums like this - with the observable consequences. Phewww /end rant
What to do about it - I don´t know. In other forums I have seen, the quality gets better through massive and sometimes hard moderation - but these forums were much smaller than xda.
So I can understand the anger, but it is as pointless as the silly questions: it only wastes space and makes threads harder to read.
Reporting pointless posts to moderation with a warning to the poster and maybe a strict "3-strikes and you´re out"-rule would bring some success, but also an massive amount of discussion about censorship, freedom of expression etc.
What to say: I´ll read and maybe sometimes post a question and hope, that this massive fountain of information will not become a mere trickle.
English is not my mother-tongue, therefore my use of grammar might be sometimes a little funny.
Why are you judging members by their post count?
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK. You need a 'user points' system. I'm more familiar with Drupal than vb (you should probably upgrade sometime), so I'm not sure what's available for vb, if anything. You want something similar to this: http://drupal.org/project/userpoints
Users then earn points for performing certain actions on your site (not just posting), you can assign different amounts of points for different actions. Points can be removed too.
Then have a minimum userpoint limit for posting in certain forums.
Then you'd have better control over what activities you were encouraging users to do, rather than just encouraging short spam posts.
Chalenge accepted.
wbaw said:
12aon said:
]Why are you judging members by their post count?
For lack of a better alternative. I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative, and share it with us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK. You need a 'user points' system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@wbaw: I like your Idea of a 'user points' system. To make sure that there are only posts that are above a certain level of standard, you need to create some kind of 'filter'. But I think that, such a system as you have suggested could be exploited as well. As long as there are technical rules to be fulfilled one can just do so and get his status right.
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
Let me explain why I came up and what I mean by this.
I have to confess that I'm a heavy user of youtube. And here you have a good example what I mean. You do not only have the ability to press a "like", "+1" or "thump up" -button but also the possibility to press "thumps down". What I figured out is, that the rating of the videos are surprisingly close to my own opinion. That implies that everyone is sensitive to the quality of a video (or post?!?) and furthermore that the average opinion about the quality is in average the opinion of the single reader itself (myself).
In the XDA-Forum you have the "Thanks" button. What I suggest is a ... hmmm ... "ingratitude" button (or just do "thumps up and down", "plus and minus", "happy and sad" or whatever you like). Each user has a single voice for each post.
With this mechanism in place, a post that is below a certain threshold could be automatically minimized. I don't mean that they should be deleted, because there might be answers that refer to this particular post. But by minimizing it, bad quality posts get out of the focus of the reader. If wanted, one can still expand and read it (by pressing some kind of an "open button").
That is the first step. In the second step there is a user rating that is based on the post rating of all his posts. So if one does not mind his behavior or is asking stupid questions over and over again. His Account is restricted to post only in the non developer parts of the forum.
The first advantage by applying this functionality is, that silly posts get quite fast out of the focus of the reader.
The second advantage is that silly poster (no offense here ^^) are removed from development forums in the long run.
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
In my opinion this functionality is a little bit better than restricting everyone (even the high quality poster) to non development forums just because they are not active enough to reach 10 posts.
The problem is, to define the threshold. I've some ideas in my mind, but that would leave the scope of this post which is to invite a new (I know its old, but new to this forum) idea.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Sorry 4 my bad English. Its not my native language.
wbaw said:
OK. You need a 'user points' system. I'm more familiar with Drupal than vb (you should probably upgrade sometime), so I'm not sure what's available for vb, if anything. You want something similar to this: http://drupal.org/project/userpoints
Users then earn points for performing certain actions on your site (not just posting), you can assign different amounts of points for different actions. Points can be removed too.
Then have a minimum userpoint limit for posting in certain forums.
Then you'd have better control over what activities you were encouraging users to do, rather than just encouraging short spam posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your ideas on this topic, although I have to admit I am really mystified by this: "....rather than just encouraging short spam posts".
Why do you believe that encouraging users to post in the proper sections with helpful answers to other users is "encouraging short spam posts"? I seriously don't get this idea. It is not really any more difficult to try a little to post even marginally helpful answers to other people in the General and Q&A forums as opposed to "short spam posts".
It is not like getting 10 not-spam posts is that difficult. Probably hundreds do it any given week here. Is it too much to ask that people read a little first, gain some knowledge, try to be a little helpful to others in the General, Q&A, Themes and Apps, and Accessories device forums, or in the general discussion forums, in order to be able to post into any dev thread on this site?
I am not sure if there is a way to add this type of functionality to VBulletin, but I think it just becomes a meaningless stat over time just like the thanks counter, and users will figure out a way to scam it as well.
Ponsel said:
First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is already in the works from what I hear, there will be rating buttons on each post, enough positive votes raises it up, enough negative votes hides it (not delete).
mf2112 said:
Ponsel said:
First of all I'd like to say "challenge accepted"
@12aon: In my opinion we need a rating system for the quality of posts and based on this a hiding mechanism for posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is already in the works from what I hear, there will be rating buttons on each post, enough positive votes raises it up, enough negative votes hides it (not delete).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds great. I'd love to increase the visibility of my favorite ROM and further more rate away bad posts.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
Ponsel said:
That sounds great. I'd love to increase the visibility of my favorite ROM and further more rate away bad posts.
Cheers
Ponsel
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would advise not writing posts to simply increase your post count. That can get the wrong kind of attention. Instead, simply try to write good posts that help people less experienced than you in your devices General or Q&A forum and it won't ever be a problem to worry about.
@wbaw - While the user points system would be a massive change to how things are run at the moment, I can't help feeling that mf2112 is completely right when he says that it'll become just like the thanks button.
In an ideal world, it would be a great idea and would work perfectly well. But in amongst the realms of the internet, a lot of people will simply do all they can just so they can post something wherever they'd like to.
@Ponsel - Even though this rating system can be a great idea and will probably be put into action at some point, I can't help feeling that this system will be exploited aswell.
I say this because quite a few times, in my short time here, I've seen moments when there's been a casual discussion going on with 6/7 people and everything's going great. Then all of a sudden, one states their opinion and none of the others agree with it or like it, so they all gang up on the individual.
In this instance, the 'gang' could quite easily vote all the individuals comments down, thus resulting in him/her being penalized.
Obviously the situation would be able to be rectified in the end, but until a mod has been able to view the whole situation, the individual would still have to be without certain posting rights, which wouldn't be fair.
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^I really love this bit because as you mention, people will have to take care of what they post, even if they have thousands of posts. Also, I really do think it would improve the forum quality aswell. Only time will tell as to whether it with get implemented or not and whether it would even be effective, but I do like the idea so far.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
mf2112 said:
Ponsel said:
p.S. Just writing to increase my "noob counter" ;-D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
would advise not writing posts to simply increase your post count.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just could not resist to show how easy it is to exploit the "noob counter" system. You just need to start a discussion and keep trolling.
But here's the non trolling reply:
KidCarter93 said:
@Ponsel - Even though this rating system can be a great idea and will probably be put into action at some point, I can't help feeling that this system will be exploited aswell.
I say this because quite a few times, in my short time here, I've seen moments when there's been a casual discussion going on with 6/7 people and everything's going great. Then all of a sudden, one states their opinion and none of the others agree with it or like it, so they all gang up on the individual.
In this instance, the 'gang' could quite easily vote all the individuals comments down, thus resulting in him/her being penalized.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, that my idea is not without any fault. But I think that this problem can be solved by a good threshold. I think its to early to go into details, but to support my idea and to encourage everyone to participate in this discussion (I can't fight the feeling that I'm just trolling again ^^) I'll now suggest one possible solution how to solve this problem.
I think the threshold should work in two steps:
Step 1. As long as there are no more than 5 ratings the post is visible.
Step 2. As long as there are 10% or more positive votes the post should still be visible.
These numbers have materialized out of thin air in front of my inner eye and I'd be glad if some "number cruncher" could calculate better ones. But first let me explain why I've chosen this particular ones.
First of all I'd like to state that I'd rather let a bad post stay visible then losing a good idea. So I would be very careful when filtering them out. By the method that I've suggested, a post would be as visible as long as not at least 6 persons have rated against it. And even then a single positive vote can keep the post above the threshold until there are 10 negative votes against it.
Normal posts will get voted very seldom (just because they don't polarize as much).
Posts that polarize will get some positive and some negative votes and stay above the threshold.
I figure that bad posts are so obvious bad that barely anyone will ever vote them positive (well ... the poster should not be allowed to rate his own post ^^).
The rating system for the account itself must work somehow different. I've no Idea how it should work, but I think that the lowest 5-15% of the "most unpopular" accounts should be restricted on non development forums (these numbers are out of thin air as well ^^).
KidCarter93 said:
Ponsel said:
The third advantage is, that one have to take care of all his posts even in the long run (writing 10 posts does not necessarily means that one have learned its lesson). So the over all quality of the forum itself is increasing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^I really love this bit because as you mention, people will have to take care of what they post, even if they have thousands of posts. Also, I really do think it would improve the forum quality aswell. Only time will tell as to whether it with get implemented or not and whether it would even be effective, but I do like the idea so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well in this point I'm not sooo optimistic because normal posts rarely get a rating at all. Giving those assumption someone with a lot of posts might stay above the threshold. It might be advisable to take only the posts with a rating into account, but I'm not sure.
I hope my remarks support my Idea of a rating system for posts ^^
Cheers
Ponsel
only issue i have is i am very experience in flashing roms just new to this site and i have a couple very specific questions about ombg nand and i could not ask. which is my main reason for signing up. there is a ton of great info here but i was having a specific issue with the rom on my rhod400 and i hope to get a answer in general since i couldnt ask directly in that thread.
orangezx10r said:
only issue i have is i am very experience in flashing roms just new to this site and i have a couple very specific questions about ombg nand and i could not ask. which is my main reason for signing up. there is a ton of great info here but i was having a specific issue with the rom on my rhod400 and i hope to get a answer in general since i couldnt ask directly in that thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As others have stated, you should make some helpful posts around the forums. If you say you're sharp at flashing, I'm sure there's a ton of questions you can answer around the forums.
The TP2 is a strange device, in that it runs both Android and WinMo. We really need an "Android General" section for the TP2, which I have tried many times to get...
So unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do. Just don't go spamming forums with worthless drivel... that will certainly get you unwanted attention.
This is the kind of thing we think about a lot. We actually do have a "points" system in beta on some forums but there are a lot of issues that come into play when you start showing/hiding threads based on points. What if a group gets together and starts voting competing projects down in collective voting blocks?
Right now we simply ask that in order to post in certain sections, that you help others out first. It may not be the ideal solution but it is working for the community at the moment.
Anyway, rest assured we continually evaluate the best way to balance user interaction vs limiting the cruft.
bitpushr said:
This is the kind of thing we think about a lot. We actually do have a "points" system in beta on some forums but there are a lot of issues that come into play when you start showing/hiding threads based on points. What if a group gets together and starts voting competing projects down in collective voting blocks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not quite sure how to answer this. I'll try it anyway
My suggestion is for single posts, not for threads. Probably its a good idea to disable the the voting for the initial post of a thread.
It's all about visibility. I don't want to delete the post, just minimize it within the thread.
I'd like to mention the REALLY low threshold. 10% means that every 10 negative votes can be countered by one single positive vote.
If there is a project that figures that there is a competitor the competitor itself must have accumulated enough interest to be recognized as such one. That means that there is a fan base to keep it above the threshold mentioned in point 3.
Last but not least. It might sound harsh, but if a Project can not build up as many fans as needed to defend itself, then probably this project might be not worth working on it (just a thought).
Cheers
Ponsel
We can mention who all have voted up/down on every post (through some expandable option, ofcourse)..
This way, group behaviour can be identified, and accordingly dealt with, by the mods...
Ponsel said:
[*]Last but not least. It might sound harsh, but if a Project can not build up as many fans as needed to defend itself, then probably this project might be not worth working on it (just a thought).
Cheers
Ponsel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
conantroutman said:
Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You,sir,are amazing... LOL... Anyway,i also agree that the post count limit should be increased rather than decreased..
conantroutman said:
Sorry but an app that is genuinely useful but may only have a handful of responses is just as, if not more valuable to a site like this than some annoying fart/wallpaper application which may have hundreds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See point 4 on my list. A project as small as you seems to have in mind, would never collect enough attention to be recognized as a competitor. it's just to small.
conantroutman said:
Quantity of responses/thanks clicks is no gauge for quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither is a "noob counter".
conantroutman said:
This is a difficult issue to approach and I don't really have an answer for you but my personal feeling has always been that the post count limit should be raised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Following your argumentation that even small projects might contribute to the developer community, I'd like to express the thought, that even the first post of a completely new account could include the spark of genius that is needed to solve a problem for which even recognized developers could provide a solution since years. One should not use different standards to similar problems. :angel::laugh:
conantroutman said:
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quality of a post is not only based on its contents, but on the manners of the poster as well. The phrase quoted would have made me hesitating to give a positive vote (neither would I rate it down, because your arguments help to figure out the pro and cons of my suggestion and we urgently need to discuss the boundaries of a new idea before doing a field test).
Cheers
Ponsel
Ponsel said:
See point 4 on my list. A project as small as you seems to have in mind, would never collect enough attention to be recognized as a competitor. it's just to small.
The examples given aren't really important, its the principle, just because something is popular does not make it any more relevant or valid. I'm also unsure where the idea of competition comes from. XDA is about collaboration not competition.
Neither is a "noob counter".
It's not a counter, it's a period of introduction to the forums and a chance to contribute to the community befor gaining access to the development forums. It's unfortunate that such measures are necessary but due to the majority of new member simply wishing to ask inane questions or make demands of the developers, they are necessary.
Following your argumentation that even small projects might contribute to the developer community, I'd like to express the thought, that even the first post of a completely new account could include the spark of genius that is needed to solve a problem for which even recognized developers could provide a solution since years. One should not use different standards to similar problems. :angel::laugh:
Very true and one of the major drawbacks to this rule. However, anyone with such knowledge will no doubt either make ten useful posts or alert the relevant party via PM. Anyone who has the attitude of "I know the answer but I'm not sharing it because of the ten post rule" is probably not suited to XDA.
Quality of a post is not only based on its contents, but on the manners of the poster as well. The phrase quoted would have made me hesitating to give a positive vote (neither would I rate it down, because your arguments help to figure out the pro and cons of my suggestion and we urgently need to discuss the boundaries of a new idea before doing a field test).
lol, the phrase you quoted here is my mobile signature and not directed at you or your post here
Cheers
Ponsel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Responded to your points in red.
Here is my take on the 10-post "issue". I signed up for the forum a few days ago to hopefully get an answer regarding the win mobile phones and Ive searched for an answer and could not find one. I'm not a windows phone user so I dont have a lot of knowledge about the devices so Im not the best person to help (hence lowering my post count). So I have to reply with posts like this to be able to post a real question in the category I really want to post it in. I've asked the question in the Q&A section but because its flooded with everyone's questions I dont think people actually go there to help assist anyone (my short observation).
vitaliyt said:
Here is my take on the 10-post "issue". I signed up for the forum a few days ago to hopefully get an answer regarding the win mobile phones and Ive searched for an answer and could not find one. I'm not a windows phone user so I dont have a lot of knowledge about the devices so Im not the best person to help (hence lowering my post count). So I have to reply with posts like this to be able to post a real question in the category I really want to post it in. I've asked the question in the Q&A section but because its flooded with everyone's questions I dont think people actually go there to help assist anyone (my short observation).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The development section is not the place for questions. I can assure that posting a question there will get you a response, however it won't be the one you want.
So here is my partial proposed solution to the issue. Upon signup, perhaps the users need to go through a rotating question system (10 questions?) and another captcha? This may take the user longer to sign up and be able to post but maybe there wont be so many abandoned user accounts, not sure if you have current viability on this or not.
Abandoned accounts is not the problem...
The problem is that people think that the dev area is for newb questions...it isn't...
Hence, the initial limitation posed to all, so that they atleast try and understand what this site is about...
"By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you, Man and Knife"