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I've been using a mix of old and new USB cables for charging and have noticed that some micro USBs from my Blackberry days will charge the TB but VERY slowly, even using the wall charger.
I want to order some more fast charging USB cables, but how do I identify the difference? What IS the actual difference between the cables?
Thanks!
Usb charging is normally slower than AC wall charging. Most cables are designed exactly the same but some chargers are suited for more amperage per hour. I'd recommend downloading the app -"battery monitor widget" and plugging in your charger and seeing what type of miliamp per hour rating you're getting off of that particular usb port. If the port is in front of the computer, normally those get slightly less voltage than the main ones in the back. Also If you're rooted make sure you aren't on an old outdated kernel that has trickle charge coding thats messed up. I normally get 500-800ma/h based off the AC wall chargers, and anywhere depending on what computer (Work vs Home) USB ports anywhere from like 150-350ma/h. Hope that little tidbit helps.
It is a bit complicted.
When you simply apply power, the Thunderbolt (and most micro USB phone) charges at a slow rate. I have measured this at around 350ma max on the Bolt. This is mainly because the USB port power standard on a PC is 500ma max. They need to stay under that.
By the micro USB standard, if you tie the two USB data lines (D- and D+) together, then the Thunderbolt goes into a fast charge mode. I have seen around 850ma max. You can place a piece of aluminum foil on the charger end (large USB) to short out the two center pins only and switch it to high rate.
Some cables tie the two wires together. Those are fast charge only cables that you can't used for a USB connection. Some chargers tie the two wires together. So they fast charge with any USB cable.
What gets complicated is that of course the charger needs to be capable of about 1 amp for the fast charge to work. AND, some cables use such small wire diameter, that they can't carry the high current rate. I have a couple of cheap cables that even on the fast rate, only carry around 300ma.
AND, if you have time, charge at the low rate. The battery and phone will run cooler, and the battery will last longer. My overnight charger is the lowest rate that I can get by with. But I need to use a super high rate when using the GPS on my motorcycle to keep up with the bright screen and such.
worwig said:
It is a bit complicted.
By the micro USB standard, if you tie the two USB data lines (D- and D+) together, then the Thunderbolt goes into a fast charge mode. I have seen around 850ma max. You can place a piece of aluminum foil on the charger end (large USB) to short out the two center pins only and switch it to high rate.
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I did this for my CaseMate battery backup and was able to get 800ma charging from it...
If you are just looking for a good car charger, i highly recommend the Motorola Rapid Charger from amazon, they are about $5 shipped. Those charge at the AC "Fast Charge" rate.
converting usb standard to fast-charging
Basically, the cable that came with my tablet, which allowed fast-charging, crapped out. I bought what I thought was the same cable and it still didn't work the right way. In searching through the forums, a a phrase hit me... two-pin fast charging cable. Seeing that, I took a small knife and a pair of needle-nose pliers and extracted the two inner pins( data pins) from he USB side of my cable. The cable, without the data pins, became a dedicated fast-charging cable. I have done this process with three cables so far to see if it was a fluke and every one is capable of fast-charging. I hope anybody that has been hitting the wall on this, reads this, because I was getting very frustrated with the convulated answers some people were giving to address this (especially from Munich!). Try it out, you can bury me in ashes if it doesn't work for you!!!
It's not the cable, it's the brick you're using. My nexus 7 charging brick has a higher output than my tbolt brick, so I use my n7's to charge it in a fraction of the time. Never rely on your computer's usb port to charge your device especially if it's your daily driver
i bought that Motorola Rapid Car charger recent and have been using it about a week now. i've noticed that it doesn't seem to charge my Thunderbolt any faster then it did when i was using the Thunderbolt's USB cable with this USB car charger adapter.
so, my question is, why is it called "rapid" if it doesn't charge any faster?
and i suppose secondly, is there an actual microUSB charger that will charge the Thunderbolt faster?
they make one for the iphone that will fully charge it in 30 minutes so i know they are out there.
voxigenboy said:
i bought that Motorola Rapid Car charger recent and have been using it about a week now. i've noticed that it doesn't seem to charge my Thunderbolt any faster then it did when i was using the Thunderbolt's USB cable with this USB car charger adapter.
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Maybe you should try this one.
Install the battery monitor widget. Monitor the battery for about 20 minutes while charging. Tell us what the charge current is.
Does the Motorola charger include a cable? If not, you may just have a weak cable. I have seen cheap cables with wire so thin that the charging current is no better then charging off a weak USB port.
My experience has been that the phone typically recognizes car charges as USB charging and uses a different charging profile. My solution to that is use a wall charger through an inverter or a kernel that doesn't use radically different charging profiles for A/C and USB.
loonatik78 said:
My experience has been that the phone typically recognizes car charges as USB charging and uses a different charging profile. My solution to that is use a wall charger through an inverter or a kernel that doesn't use radically different charging profiles for A/C and USB.
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No need for that.
Cut a small piece of aluminum foil. Carefully place it where it shorts the two center conductors in the charger. Plug the USB cable into the charger. Make sure the foil stays in place over the two center conductors.
It is now a high rate charger. (assuming it can put out 1 amp.)
The limiting factor is typically the usb cable itself. Most usb cables can't support the 1amp that is provided to it. Since you used the original usb cable that came with the thunderbolt (that's been "shorted" as mentioned above" ) it will be just as fast as the moto car charger. the 1amp charging rate that the moto charger charges at (i have one) and that the original one charges at are already "rapid". if you plugged a normal usb cable from somewhere else into the other usb car charger, it'd be much much slower
squeakyl said:
The limiting factor is typically the usb cable itself. Most usb cables can't support the 1amp that is provided to it. Since you used the original usb cable that came with the thunderbolt (that's been "shorted" as mentioned above" ) it will be just as fast as the moto car charger. the 1amp charging rate that the moto charger charges at (i have one) and that the original one charges at are already "rapid". if you plugged a normal usb cable from somewhere else into the other usb car charger, it'd be much much slower
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The stock charger is what shorts the connections. The cable is NOT shorted on the two inner pins because they are the data connections used for connecting your phone to a computer.
doodlebro said:
The stock charger is what shorts the connections. The cable is NOT shorted on the two inner pins because they are the data connections used for connecting your phone to a computer.
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To meet the USB charging spec (which the TB uses), the two inner (data) contacts should be shorted with no more that 200 ohms.
But, the cable can also be an issue for rapid charging. The voltage drop for a 1A/5V source, across only .5 M of 28 gauge copper is ~220 mV. If you use a longer cable, there's more voltage drop. The TB likely current limits itself when the voltage drops below a certain threshold. Best to buy 24 gauge USB cables, if you can, especially if getting longer ones (monoprice has them).
voxigenboy said:
i bought that Motorola Rapid Car charger recent and have been using it about a week now. i've noticed that it doesn't seem to charge my Thunderbolt any faster then it did when i was using the Thunderbolt's USB cable with this USB car charger adapter.
so, my question is, why is it called "rapid" if it doesn't charge any faster?
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I think its a matter of rated output current. BUT on the other side, the phone must be capable of drawing/using that much current. If the adapter is rated for more current than the phone can charge, the "extra" current wont be supplied.
Initially, Moto's standard car chargers output 5V and up to 550ma max (just like a standard PC USB port) so they didn't charge phones all that fast. Moto then came out with chargers that had higher current output, so they were capable of charging the phones "faster" than the original car chargers (but on par with the home/travel/AC chargers) and called them "rapid car chargers"..
Today, the current output on the Moto SPN5400A car charger is 0-950mA, and I've seen it sometimes referred to as "Rapid Car charger."
But as far as I know, Moto no longer makes/sells the lower current car chargers, and their web site only shows one MicroUSB and one MiniUSB car charger for sale, both of which appear to be of the 0-950mA output variety.
voxigenboy said:
and i suppose secondly, is there an actual microUSB charger that will charge the Thunderbolt faster?
they make one for the iphone that will fully charge it in 30 minutes so i know they are out there.
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Just because someone makes such a charger for the iPhone, doesn't mean one must exist for the TB, or other phones, does it? I know the iPad uses a 2A charger. What happens if you connect an iPhone to that? will it charge faster? I guess that depends on if the iPhone is capable of drawing more than 1A to charge it.
I've not seen a "home" or AC charger that can charge the TB any faster than the Stock 1A charger. Does such a thing exist?
A proper car charger with 950mA to 1A output should charge the TB at almost exactly the same rate as the stock 1A wall/AC charger.
And btw, the Moto SPN5400A car charger DOES charge my TB in about the same amount of time that it takes me to charge my TB at home with the stock HTC charger. So while its not "rapid" compared to the stock home/travel/AC charger, its "rapid" compared to PC USB Port charging, or a plain lower current car charger.
KidJoe said:
I've not seen a "home" or AC charger that can charge the TB any faster than the Stock 1A charger. Does such a thing exist?
A proper car charger with 950mA to 1A output should charge the TB at almost exactly the same rate as the stock 1A wall/AC charger.
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I made a charger for my motorcycle. I use it as a GPS, screen on MAX, phone active with marginal signal. And I wanted to actually charge the battery at the same time. I did a lot of experimenting with the Thunderbolt. It would not exceed a pull of about 850ma from the supply, even at 5.5 volts. IMHO, you are wasting time looking for any charger over 1 amp.
Also, even with about 850ma in, not much over 500ma is getting to the battery. So a totally dead battery is still going to take between 2 and 3 hours to charge, no matter what charger you have. And twice that long if the charger looks like a PC USB port.
worwig said:
I made a charger for my motorcycle. I use it as a GPS, screen on MAX, phone active with marginal signal. And I wanted to actually charge the battery at the same time. I did a lot of experimenting with the Thunderbolt. It would not exceed a pull of about 850ma from the supply, even at 5.5 volts. IMHO, you are wasting time looking for any charger over 1 amp.
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I was asking because of the OP's statement about knowing "they must exist" because they are out there for the iPhone.
I'm perfectly happy with my Moto car charger, and how fast it charges my phones.
Ordered a QI charger off Amazon (the same Lerway Chinese brand one everyone seems to get) and it's charging incredibly slow. Not sure if the app I'm using to record the charge rate is incorrect or I'm not reading it correctly but it says it's charging at only +200mA max sometimes as slow as <50mA.
Anyone else experience this?
skusa93 said:
Ordered a QI charger off Amazon (the same Lerway Chinese brand one everyone seems to get) and it's charging incredibly slow. Not sure if the app I'm using to record the charge rate is incorrect or I'm not reading it correctly but it says it's charging at only +200mA max sometimes as slow as <50mA.
Anyone else experience this?
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What kind of power source you use to power the charger and what kind of cable do you use?
If you connect the charger to computer USB port it will not provide enough power for the charger. Same with cheap cables, like the ones mostly included with the generic QI chargers. You need a premium USB cable.
Also if you have a thick case on your phone it will diminish the charging current received by a coil in your phone.
Firstly check how much power and what current your charger gets, so instead of plugging the QI charger, plug your phone and check what amperage you get (I use Current Widget). If it's less then 1600mA (maximum amperage that N5 will allow from direct charging through cable) your charger is underpowered and you need to change socket charger to 2A one. If you're using 2A socket charger and still get under 1600mA then your micro USB cable isn't good enough.
Properly and fully powered Qi charger should charge your bare phone (without a case) at about 700-800mA.
Znamir81 said:
What kind of power source you use to power the charger and what kind of cable do you use?
If you connect the charger to computer USB port it will not provide enough power for the charger. Same with cheap cables, like the ones mostly included with the generic QI chargers. You need a premium USB cable.
Also if you have a thick case on your phone it will diminish the charging current received by a coil in your phone.
Firstly check how much power and what current your charger gets, so instead of plugging the QI charger, plug your phone and check what amperage you get (I use Current Widget). If it's less then 1600mA (maximum amperage that N5 will allow from direct charging through cable) your charger is underpowered and you need to change socket charger to 2A one. If you're using 2A socket charger and still get under 1600mA then your micro USB cable isn't good enough.
Properly and fully powered Qi charger should charge your bare phone (without a case) at about 700-800mA.
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Thanks for the info I thought I was going crazy.
No case so that isn't an issue.
I have the phone connected direct to a 3A charger currently and am only getting 995mA charge rate with the screen on and it looks like full 1.5A with the screen off. Maybe a defective QI charger?
Nope. Everything is normal. You just need a better cable that will manage to transfer 2A of current.
QI charger needs 2A input to give 1A output on a coil. Giving about 70-80% efficiency rate, your phone would be getting about 700-800mA.
Since your charger gets only about 1A input it gives about 500mA output. Therefore giving that efficiency rate, your phone should be getting about 350-400mA tops. It is possible that your charger has lower efficiency rate (some have about 50-60%), so the values that you're getting are pretty normal unless you use a premium micro usb cable, preferably with thicker, like AWG24 or lower (the lower value the better) power wires.
Might want to try these cables, a lot of people have had great luck with using them on Qi chargers. Don't know which length you would need, they have 3 and 6 foot cables. For the price, I'm ordering 6 6ft cables.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=9762&seq=1&format=2
Hey!
I noticed recently that my G5 charges quite slow. So I tested all of my powerbanks, cables, and wall chargers, in various combinations. I had 4 different powerbanks, 3 wall chargers, and 4 cables.
I used a USB ammeter to measure the power draw going through the USB cable.
On the motorola charger and cable that came with the phone, it charges at 1.8a. I then charged my phone from each powerbank and wall charger, using each cable in turn. The average charge speed for my phone was about 0.5a. Out of 28 combinations, only 2 yielded a draw over 1a.
I have created a spreadsheet detailing the charge speeds of each combination, but unfortunately cannot post it yet (10 post permissions).
I then charged my USB powerbanks from the same wall chargers, using the same cables. One powerbank charged at over 1a with every combination, and reached over 2a on numerous combinations. This proves that the cables and wall chargers are not at fault, it is a phone issue.
Why? Has motorola put something in their chargers that 'talks' to the phone, and allows for faster charge speeds? 0.5a is awful!
Secondly, does anyone know of cables that I can buy, which will support fast charging for the motorola? I have looked at genuine motorola cables, but there is no way to tell one from the other.
Thanks!
Paul
P.s. charge speeds were the same, whether the phone was switched on or off.
Welcome @agour
I've come up to a similar conclusion with a lot less data (thus I didn't share them).
I caught power consumption at the wall outlet when charging my device with two chargers: Motorola stock charger and a Samsung Adaptive Fast Charger.
The Samsung has the following specs: 5V 2A or 9V 1.67A with fastcharging capable device.
Using Samsung Adaptive fast charger and Samsung 1.5m cable : 6W, so the device charges at something like 5V 1.2A...
Using Samsung Adaptive fast charger and the cable provided with my XT1676 : 11.3W (which is coherent with the max 9V 1.6A, and would mean the charger provides 2.2A if at 5V which more than the specs.)
Using stock charger and stock supplied cable : 11.3W ==> fast charge for similar reasons as above
Using stock charger and Samsung 1.5m cable : around 6W ==> low power charge
I'd need a USB multimeter to confirm those data. (mostly due to the variable voltage that can provide fast charge adatpers)
matmutant said:
Welcome @agour
I've come up to a similar conclusion with a lot less data (thus I didn't share them).
I caught power consumption at the wall outlet when charging my device with two chargers: Motorola stock charger and a Samsung Adaptive Fast Charger.
The Samsung has the following specs: 5V 2A or 9V 1.67A with fastcharging capable device.
Using Samsung Adaptive fast charger and Samsung 1.5m cable : 6W, so the device charges at something like 5V 1.2A...
Using Samsung Adaptive fast charger and the cable provided with my XT1676 : 11.3W (which is coherent with the max 9V 1.6A, and would mean the charger provides 2.2A if at 5V which more than the specs.)
Using stock charger and stock supplied cable : 11.3W ==> fast charge for similar reasons as above
Using stock charger and Samsung 1.5m cable : around 6W ==> low power charge
I'd need a USB multimeter to confirm those data. (mostly due to the variable voltage that can provide fast charge adatpers)
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Interesting! It's suprising how much difference the combinations can make.
I don't think I have experienced this on a phone before, however I have never felt the need to test it...
I tested the original cable that came with the phone, and an off the shelf 'genuine motorola cable'. The stock cable is still the fastest, however the secondary cable still worked very well.
Interestingly, one of my powerbanks will charge at 2.2a from pretty much EVERY powersource and cable combination. This is with 7 cables tested, and 3 USB wall adapters.
Shame that motorola doesn't allow their phones to draw maximum power from hardware that can provide it..
agour said:
Interesting! It's suprising how much difference the combinations can make.
I don't think I have experienced this on a phone before, however I have never felt the need to test it...
I tested the original cable that came with the phone, and an off the shelf 'genuine motorola cable'. The stock cable is still the fastest, however the secondary cable still worked very well.
Interestingly, one of my powerbanks will charge at 2.2a from pretty much EVERY powersource and cable combination. This is with 7 cables tested, and 3 USB wall adapters.
Shame that motorola doesn't allow their phones to draw maximum power from hardware that can provide it..
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If I have some time, I may test internal impedance of the cables, it is possible that the device somehow probes the cable (or the cable + charger) and then decides if it can or not draw that much power without overheating/melting the cable; and then it will negotiate the quickCharge with the charger.
there has been a discussion about quick charge on this thread a while ago (before I got this devices : https://forum.xda-developers.com/g5/help/quick-charge-3-0-support-t3632457)
Lenovo adds the following that I have not tested:
Lenovo said:
If your device is below 78%, but it does not begin Turbo charging when you plug it into the Turbo Charger, try uplugging and plugging back in using one fluid motion.
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[Source]
It is quite obvious that especially cheap cables will charge phones much slower as the resistance is too high, even if the phone does not perform any checks. Those cables are basically too thin. Resistance limits the current (amps) that can flow. Newer phones most likely just look at the charge current during the first x seconds (or less) and then decide wether to enable fast charging or not to keep the cable from heating up. A wire with high resistance is basically a heater. So it's a necessary safety feature (from the companies POV).
Regarding the power bank, it may be possible that this particular design provides a voltage slightly higher than the nominal 5 volts (still fine for most devices), which helps overcome the resistance. That is also the reason why the Samsung fast charger provides 9V: You don't need a cable as thick as with 5V.
Keep in mind that the USB specifications only recently got updated for such high charging currents, so it is advisable to use only the cable that comes with the phone as USB cables in general don't need to provide such high currents by spec!
71n4 said:
It is quite obvious that especially cheap cables will charge phones much slower as the resistance is too high, even if the phone does not perform any checks. Those cables are basically too thin.
Resistance limits the current (amps) that can flow. Newer phones most likely just look at the charge current during the first x seconds (or less) and then decide wether to enable fast charging or not to keep the cable from heating up. A wire with high resistance is basically a heater. So it's a necessary safety feature (from the companies POV).
Regarding the power bank, it may be possible that this particular design provides a voltage slightly higher than the nominal 5 volts (still fine for most devices), which helps overcome the resistance. That is also the reason why the Samsung fast charger provides 9V: You don't need a cable as thick as with 5V.
Keep in mind that the USB specifications only recently got updated for such high charging currents, so it is advisable to use only the cable that comes with the phone as USB cables in general don't need to provide such high currents by spec!
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That sounds correct, although my Samsung wall adapter is fast charge capable, and was provided with a cable (and not a cheap one), that basically can't be use for fast charging with the G5, that looks silly...
I have been having problems charging my LG V20. When driving and streaming music with Waze I notice that I'm loosing charge capacity, so I have to only use Waze when absolutely necessary, during traffic jams or finding a restaurant or store etc. I keep getting intermittent "Slow Charging" or "Use OEM Charger & Cable" messages. I don't have the OEM charger or cable so I have been purchasing chargers & cables. I bought a 4 port 12V charger with QC 3.0 expecting that to solve my problem. The charger didn't change anything. So I bought a few USB 3.0 cables and just one time I got a "Fast Charging" session. I read a review about a charger like mine and the review rated the charger as poor. So I bought another QC 3.0 charger and went out to the car with the new charger and all my C type cables. Went through all 5 of my 3 ft cables and once again I keep getting intermittent "Slow Charging" or "Use OEM Charger & Cable" messages with the new charger. Bummer. I also have two short 25cm cables that I tried in desperation and Wow, both of these short cables produce consistent "Fast Charging" sessions. With both chargers! The 25cm cables are too short to reach where I mount my phone so I just ordered a 50cm Ugreen USB C Cable 5A Super Charge Cable. I'm hoping a short (less resistance) high quality cable will solve my problem. Any suggestions on another brand 50cm cable I should order as a backup?
rredmed said:
I have been having problems charging my LG V20. When driving and streaming music with Waze I notice that I'm loosing charge capacity, so I have to only use Waze when absolutely necessary, during traffic jams or finding a restaurant or store etc. I keep getting intermittent "Slow Charging" or "Use OEM Charger & Cable" messages. I don't have the OEM charger or cable so I have been purchasing chargers & cables. I bought a 4 port 12V charger with QC 3.0 expecting that to solve my problem. The charger didn't change anything. So I bought a few USB 3.0 cables and just one time I got a "Fast Charging" session. I read a review about a charger like mine and the review rated the charger as poor. So I bought another QC 3.0 charger and went out to the car with the new charger and all my C type cables. Went through all 5 of my 3 ft cables and once again I keep getting intermittent "Slow Charging" or "Use OEM Charger & Cable" messages with the new charger. Bummer. I also have two short 25cm cables that I tried in desperation and Wow, both of these short cables produce consistent "Fast Charging" sessions. With both chargers! The 25cm cables are too short to reach where I mount my phone so I just ordered a 50cm Ugreen USB C Cable 5A Super Charge Cable. I'm hoping a short (less resistance) high quality cable will solve my problem. Any suggestions on another brand 50cm cable I should order as a backup?
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You need to check the voltage and amperage of your charger and then see if you can find some specs about your device and look for what voltage and amperage charger it is supposed to have. The power output of the charger is more relevant to charge capacity than the length of the cable being used.
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Droidriven said:
You need to check the voltage and amperage of your charger and then see if you can find some specs about your device and look for what voltage and amperage charger it is supposed to have. The power output of the charger is more relevant to charge capacity than the length of the cable being used.
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How do you explain multiple charges working in quick charge mode only with the short cables I have and not with any of the other cables, other than a problem with the cables?
rredmed said:
How do you explain multiple charges working in quick charge mode only with the short cables I have and not with any of the other cables, other than a problem with the cables?
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Did you do any investigating to determine what voltage and amperage charger is required by your specific device? Did you compare that to the chargers that you have in order to verify whether the chargers you have are correctly rated for your device? That is a more important detail than you realize.
Yeah, I know what you're probably thinking, "I've never had a problem using a different charger to charge other devices that I have used/owned, how can it be an issue now?"
The answer to that is, not all devices are equal.
Maybe the charger is rated lower than is required by the device and when used with the longer, higher resistance cords, it can't provide enough power, but when using the short cord it's lower resistance might be enough to make up the difference. I've had this issue on a Kindle tablet, the charger for my phone would not charge the device quickly enough unless the device was turned off, it would even give the "may not charge" message when I would plug it in, but when I bought the proper charger for it, VIOLA!!, it charged correctly. Well what do you know, the correct charger and cord actually charges it correctly, imagine that, who would have ever thought that using the correct hardware would get the correct results. I'm being sarcastic, but you get my point.
It has more to do with how much the charger itself can provide than it does the length of the cord.
For example, if you had the original charger and the original cord, it would provide the correct amount of charge, but if you were to use a 10ft cord with the stock charger instead of the 3-6 foot that comes with the device, you would see a reduction in how much power it supplies, even more so if the charger is plugged into a drop cord/extension cord at the same time. I've had this exact issue on a couple of devices.
Another example is if you have a charger that is rated below what the device requires and you used the 3-6 ft stock cord, it could decrease the amount of power supplied by the charger block because the charger can't supply enough power to overcome the resistance of the stock cord, but when using the shorter, lower resistance cord with the lower rated charger, the cord's resistance could be low enough that it allows enough power to be supplied.
I'm not saying that it is 100% the issue that you are having, I'm saying that it is something to look into because it is more likely to be your issue because it is common for devices to charge faster, slower or not at all when using a charger that has a different rating than required by the device. Other possibilities are a damaged USB port on the device or the software has become corrupted, you would probably need to flash the stock firmware to fix the corrupted software.
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