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Mmm at last, the thing was discovered, and just experimentation is needed, so we can test the syncing (Cheack Thread Page 3).
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Mmm as I am far from a selfish guy, and have been asked about this, i think that i will share in an independent thread for anyone to see.
Note that this comes from my own ideas, not tested as i cannot use MTP protocol anymore.
[SIZE="5"]Responsability Disclaimer[/SIZE]
This may be agains DCMA or laws about reversing in your country. It's not probably being that way as is a development to interoperate with an unsupported OS (linux) and its one of the exceptions, but i'm not responsable for any liability you can have or imagine.
[SIZE="5"]What is this for?[/SIZE]
This is the procedure to follow before thinking in hacking the phone itself, trying to get to write and read files from the device.
It could faild and serve to no purpose or be gold, depending on the success of the tests.
In the best case, this will lead to the reading and writing of files at will to the device storage.
[SIZE="5"]USB protocol Pre-Knowledge (fast)[/SIZE]
I know you dont wanna know about it, and i am far from an expert but i must just express that USB devices support two operations:
[B]Bulk Transfers[/B] -> Big chunks of data, used mostly for the common data transfers up to 512Bytes per transmission (at a max/time).
[B]Interrupt Transfers[/B] -> Short chunks of data, used for changing settings on the device or short burst of information.
For your personal knowledge, MTP protocol instructions are bunch of hex codes and [U]they use bulk transfers for all of the MTP instructions[/U].
[SIZE="5"]Required items - Gathering[/SIZE]
- Working Kin
- Windows OS as host OS
- USB sniffer / monitor (I like Usblyzer, has trial for 30 days)
- CPU with virtualization capabilities (google how to check)
- Vmware
- Mac OSX image dvd (Snow leopard)
- Software & registration from MacSpace for Kin Media Sync
[SIZE="5"]Procedure[/SIZE]
- Unplug the kin & close all zune software opened.
- Install OSX in an vmware machine
- Install and setup Kin Media sync for mac
- Kill the process that launches zune when you plug the device ("ZuneLauncher.exe")
- Plug the kin now. Use a port where no other device is, so try to put it not together with other usb device like mouse/keyboard which could send packets and confuse the capture.
- Install and setup usb sniffer for windows.
--- Set it to sniff/capture at the USB port where the kin is (it's a tree view structure, so easy to see where to put the check). [U]Dont do it at the left of the KIN device!!![/U] do it on the bus/port as you will disconnect the kin later. Press start capture.
--- Open the zune software and visually check that the sniffer is capturing data (eeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaasssssyyyyyyy as it appears there). If it doesnt, you'r doing it wrong, probably cause the port/bus issue.
--- Close zune
--- Reset the capturing (stop, dont save, start).
- Open the virtual machine if it isnt.
- In the virtual machine you should have Kin Media Sync installed, which autolaunches if you have plugged the phone (virtually).
- In the virtual machine window bottom right (vmware border) you will see an item with usb icon. Hover over it and see if the tooltip says KIN. If there are more, look for the right one. Right-Click on it and pick "Connect (Disconnect from host".
- Hopefully, the usb sniffer on Windows would turn mad and begin capturing data, while Kin Media Sync is opening on the OSX virtual machine.
- I cant remember if it does put the label "Connected" at the Kin (you should remember that window from the Zune syncing :P). If it does, close Kin Media Sync and stop the capture on the windows usb sniffer. Else, do a sync before closing (doesnt matter what).
- Save the captured log as a file (in my case, Usblyzer file).
[SIZE="5"]Yeah, but why this is better than other software?[/SIZE]
Other users (and myself) have tried software that uses the MTP software which has some success on getting info from the device but fail when it comes to do reading or writing to the device.
I guess it's probably because the rest of the protocol, the private part that microsoft uses (MTPz) has some control values through the usb that turn on/off device properties, among ones is the one to write/read files.
My first idea was to understand this through the Zune software, but as i said many times, it uses DRM (Janus) to protect the songs (sigh!) and the mtp specification varies if using DRM protection, so i can never find out a way to solve it, without hacking the Zune software cryptography itself (not my intention at all) or became an old man finding how to bypass it. In any case, the Zune software does a RSA challenge-response handshake to the kin before calling to MTP-OpenSession, i can assure that, so its out of reach.
On the other hand Kin Media Studio for the OSX has no official DRM and it can just do easy syncing, so it's pretty much obvious for a dev guy (i am, haha) that its an easiest way to replicate. So i tried to go that way and i was correct, so it just does normal operations through usb and control interrupts.
The problem is that the native sniffers from OSX only capture 16 bytes of data through the usb bus, so messages over that cipher were not reachable for me at the moment. I contacted apple USB master guys about getting a bigger limit, and the resumed answer was something (just much more politely) like: "you'r screwed & stuck with 16 bytes".
So the only approach is to emulate Kin Media Sync in an OSX virtual machine under a windows os machine for the best sniffer software. Another bad point for the fruit logo machines.... (and i'm an owner... imagine a hater!). Here is why I stopped, as my normal working device (laptop) is kinda old and has no VMX/virtualization support, so i couldnt setup the virtual machine for OSX, stopping all the needed setup.
[SIZE="5"]From sniffed data to magic[/SIZE]
At this point, comes the complicate part. Understanding & testing the packets sent to the device to make things work. This is the part where i was going to operate with a new device or my current one if it wasnt bricked/stuck.
The problem appears with this structure (what is on the logged sniffed session):
- Plug the device
- Device <-> OS Handshake (Interrupt/Bulk transfers possible)
- Kin media sync queries (Interrupt transfers)
- Kin media write/read enable (Interrupt transfers)
- Kin media MTP Open session (Bulk transfer)
- Kin media MTP GetStorageInfo (Bulk transfer)
..... more MTP xxxxx (bulk transfer)
- Kin media MTP Close session (bulk transfer)
- Kin media write/read disable (Interrupt transfers)
- Kin media bye bye sync queries (Interrupt transfers)
(if unplugged, the ones below)
- Device <-> OS Goodbye (Interrupt/Bulk transfers possible)
- UnPlug the device
As some of you may realize, normal MTP software used didnt make the "read/write enable" cause the kin is not a standard device. So they fail. Once some person identifies which of this interrupt values make the kin "Connected" window shown and also enables it to be writable, profit comes.
So to test this and later make it published, you need a program to communicate with the device itself and do what some of you called "send hex codes to the kin" (which technically is "bulk and interrupt transfering values to the kin")
There seems to be none, so i code one from scratch and could polish it a bit and giveaway as a Netbeans C++ proyect.
I had some success and it works ok as i reused it(almost all the code) to operate my G15 on linux, iluminating keys and using the LCD pixels.
[SIZE="5"]This can brick my device?[/SIZE]
The short answer to this is NO. The long answer is no again, but cannot be sure of what happens enabling the the device settings while testing. It may become frozen and need to be restarted for example.
During the few test i made, mine refused to operate within my usb program and it was autosolved by libmtp-tools, which did a protocol reboot and it just work as is without doing nothing.
Anyway, i was aware that it was better than getting stuck with the phone "as is".
mmm All being said above, i just leave space for you guys to think what you wanna do with the info and questions that may appear.
Thanks but Hardware Virtualization came up as a no on my laptop.
I hope someone else tries.
I know I know I have to change my username as there are many similar and it gets confusing.
Thanks for taking the time for all the above text
I had a quick read-over what you put, but haven't looked at everything in detail. My wife had a baby yesterday morning, so I'm finding myself rather busy as of late.
Anyway, I'm more than happy to run some tests. Here's what I have access to right now (at home), with much more available when I get back to work in two weeks:
XPS m1530 laptop running x86 Windows 7 (dual-boot to Ubuntu 10.10 running as the Joli OS front). No Hardware Virtualization available for this system, though it can run VMWare for 32-bit Windows OS's.
Macbook Pro (Intel 64-bit archetecture) running 10.6.7 Snow Leopard. Can set up virtual machines if needed, using VMWare, but I'm not sure if that's necessary or not.
Powerbook G4 (PPC) running 10.5.x (latest 10.5 build). Can't run virtual machines, but can be used if another source is helpful to trace.
My personal KIN TWOm running the M OS build. Can technically be reverted back to the TWO (non-M) OS, but I'd rather not lose everything as it's my working phone.
My wife's TWOm, not activated. I can probably play with this more, as she isn't ready to use it yet, but I'd be in trouble if I bricked it.
At work, I have access to a number of different computers and OS's, as needed. I don't think this would be necessary, but they are still there.
John, can I ask where you're at? I've gotten the notion that you're not in the US, as you've said you don't have access to a CDMA network. Is there any way we can get your phone to a US Verizon store for assistance?
klamation said:
Macbook Pro (Intel 64-bit archetecture) running 10.6.7 Snow Leopard. Can set up virtual machines if needed, using VMWare, but I'm not sure if that's necessary or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has hardware capabilities (VMX feature), but you should have to install XP (or 7) through bootcamp and then install the OSX there, as the host must be windows. Anyway, you'r "lucky" as 64 bit machines can get up to 32 bytes from the usb bus, so 2x my limitation (not enough but more).
klamation said:
John, can I ask where you're at? I've gotten the notion that you're not in the US, as you've said you don't have access to a CDMA network. Is there any way we can get your phone to a US Verizon store for assistance?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm from Europe, so most phone network is common GSM with some 3G implementations. I didn bought the phone from verizon, so have no relation to them and hence, no way to give them the phone expecting a working return (why should they in any case?).
johnkussack said:
This has hardware capabilities (VMX feature), but you should have to install XP (or 7) through bootcamp and then install the OSX there, as the host must be windows. Anyway, you'r "lucky" as 64 bit machines can get up to 32 bytes from the usb bus, so 2x my limitation (not enough but more).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After I read the details of what you want to do, I thought the same thing. I have 64-bit Windows 7 set up on a bootcamp partition (I actually use VMware Fusion to run it, most of the time, but can natively boot into it, if I need). I have never been successful at setting up an OSX VM though, as it's not officially supported. If you have any reference on how to do it, I'm all ears. I'll do more research into it after posting this.
johnkussack said:
I'm from Europe, so most phone network is common GSM with some 3G implementations. I didn bought the phone from verizon, so have no relation to them and hence, no way to give them the phone expecting a working return (why should they in any case?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering the phone is less than a year old, it should still be under warranty. I know I've taken phones into their stores before and had them reimage them. I should try that with the KIN to see if they can do it (if the stores actually have the ability to reimage a KIN phone, indicating they have a ROM of it)
I could assist, I have a tri-boot of vista, 7, and OS X.
I doubt that there is a 128 bit processor emulator, let alone the OS...so wouldn't a solution be to use the same technique ,but "freeze" the process to collect data being transferred?
When I mean freezing, I mean slowing the USB data transfer speeds (using hardware underclocking, on the computer and/or phone)
@klamation
http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-install-os-x-snow-leopard-in-vmware-windows-7-9140301/
Also, it could be a hackintosh image, i guess. At least if it is able to install the kin media sync software...
awesome71717 said:
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i didnt understand anything beyond the 1st line.
there is no need to slow anything as it was a OSX kernel limitation thing, period.
John,
Why do we need 64bit vmx capability to capture messages when the Zune Software is successfully messaging with 32 bit on windows machines? Obviously I am missing something important.
Dave
kintwouser said:
....Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'r missing a more detailed reading of the first post.
Quoteing myself:
My first idea was to understand this through the Zune software, but as i said many times, it uses DRM (Janus) to protect the songs (sigh!) and the mtp specification varies if using DRM protection, so i can never find out a way to solve it, without hacking the Zune software cryptography itself (not my intention at all) or became an old man finding how to bypass it. In any case, the Zune software does a RSA challenge-response handshake to the kin before calling to MTP-OpenSession, i can assure that, so its out of reach.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
John, I was talking about halting the processor of the phone to allow the cache of data to be recorded and cleared. Once cleared, the processor will resume and the cycle can be repeated until the data is fully collected.
Anyway, has anyone found a jtag port on the board?
awesome71717 said:
John, I was talking about halting the processor of the phone to allow the cache of data to be recorded and cleared. Once cleared, the processor will resume and the cycle can be repeated until the data is fully collected.
Anyway, has anyone found a jtag port on the board?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess that it would be feasible in a parallel universe. And not mentioning that it's a host os "problem" (st#### OSx), not the phone fault.
Also please posting random ideas without thinking about what you say. A jtag? really?
And in the random case where you can plug one JTag cable/homemade adapter.... how the hell will you use it? with what program? with what known hardware specific schematics?
We cannot handle a USB writing... forget about other access...
Trying to start up Mac OSX 10.6 on a dell 630 laptop but keep getting a cpu has been disabled by the guest operating system error. Maybe I can get a newer copy of MAC that will work.
@ kintwouser
If you are having problems, look for kexts oriented around vmware or your own hardware if you're using hardware acceleration.
@John
Ah. Well then I'll just hop into my Delorean that I modified to travel to alternate dimensions, rather than just through time.
Ok ok I'll try to resist irking you any further.
I just reread the Kin Media Sync to asure it, and you can install it over a 10.5.6 Osx which is the labeled "Leopard" (as is), so i guess easier to get.
Maybe a little hackintosh image would do the same thing, as we dont really need compatibility... as long as the Media Sync works i wouldnt care about having audio on the virtual machine, or networking.. whatever.
On my own plain of existance, i tried to follow the url i posted and went till 95% of the installation, but Virtual machine didnt keep installing, so i had to turn the pc (was about 3 hours). I guess i will try with another different image or my official leopard dvd's.
It's kinda weird in my case, using a macbook with windows to vitualize a OSX... haha.
I've been trying to install SL for about 30 hrs now with no success. I've tried three different versions. VMware 7 is OK here but ACPI errors keeps disabling the CPU during osx install. I have edited the vmx file to no avail. Some suggested that I need kext files but I can't install them if osx isn't installed. I'll keep trying as it is a quest now.
don't know if i am breaking the agreements of this forum since i didn't read it (ala the latest south park episode) but here:
http://tehparadox.com/forum/f51/snow-leopard-10-6-6-vmware-hackintosh-newbies-1973493/
No editing needed. You just need to get VMware Workstation from the official site and use that custom vmware osx image. I have tested it and it works. Now if only I had the phone I could really do some testing.
zero2duo said:
don't know if i am breaking the agreements of this forum since i didn't read it (ala the latest south park episode) but here:
http://tehparadox.com/forum/f51/snow-leopard-10-6-6-vmware-hackintosh-newbies-1973493/
No editing needed. You just need to get VMware Workstation from the official site and use that custom vmware osx image. I have tested it and it works. Now if only I had the phone I could really do some testing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great find, i'm downloading it atm. Well, i think they could have chosen a (mega)better site but's ok. Queued downloads.
I will try the "installation" in my bootcamped windows XP plus vmware and then kin media sync.... Now I need a phone too, heehehehehe.
John,
I got a 10.6.7 VM running on my Win7 bootcamp partition. I followed the steps you mentioned and was able to capture some USB sniff/trace logs of browsing the device and copying a file. (inexperience during the initial sync missed the bulk of the sync).
You can find the file at www.kyleandelin.com/KIN - let me know if this helps or if you need something more?
Phew, i saw a little pack of problems hahaha (unexpected!)
While i stopped doing this, there was a new version released (2.0) and its format is not readable with 1.6 (version i have).
Installing 2.0 didnt solved the issue, as it says that was captured with a 64 bitOS version and it's not compatible with 32 bits version..... The 2.0 is the first one that included the support for 64 bits.
Man, this is all against us haha.
So... possible solutions:
- Install v1.6. May not work on 64bit os
- Install v2.0 as 32 bit verison. May not work on 64 bits or may be autoinstalled and set to 64bits.
So... what to do from here:
Please, confirm my theory before going further.
- Perform a capture from unplug state (needs to be from start). Must include the plugin till kin shows the connected status.
- Stop the capture session.
- Check the captured data in usblyzer.
- Look for the first "Request" column with "Bulk or Interrupt transfer" value.
--- If there is no suck column in all the capture session, the whole process is futile (no MTP protocol would have been transfered) and we should rethink our options.
--- If there is, please check that its column "Raw data" contains at least "10 00 00 00 01 00 02 10 ... " or a very close value.
If i'm right, and the column matches, it means that usblyzer has successfully captured the mtpz OpenSession request. Also, if it was that way, the "magic" instructions would be the before it.
If there are more than 1 and it's not the first one, please check for it .
I am finally gonna get a new (working) device, so i think that things are going to be a bit fun in some time.....
This time, just MTP, no Qualcomm random options testing.. (hahahahaha)
So, this isn't about the Galaxy Nexus per-se, but I know many of you are scared of the change to MTP and the interaction with the computer, especially those of you coming from Gingerbread directly through to the Galaxy Nexus.
I've had a Motorola Xoom (which doesn't support USB mass storage mode) for a while. Simply put, there is _no_ native support for MTP in OS X (10.7 or lower). If you plug your Galaxy Nexus into your Mac, nothing will happen at all. OS X won't see it, DoubleTwist doesn't see it, Songbird won't and iTunes (obviously) won't see it. As far as I know, there's no way of enabling your Mac to see the device natively, and all of the software designed for other MTP devices that I've tried doesn't work.
In fact, the only way your Mac will ever see it is if you download Google's Android File Helper software. This program, once installed, runs in the background, and whenever you plug in your Honeycomb (or ICS) device, it pops up a window showing the contents of the phone's memory. From here (and only from that window), you can pull files from the phone/tablet or put them onto it.
This works acceptably, but with a few hangups. First, unlike a normal finder window, only one transfer can occur at once, and there's no queueing. So, if you drop one folder on to copy, you're not able to move anything else onto or off of the card until it's finished. Also, large transfers (~10 GB) don't work particularly reliably, and may fail partway through, so you may consider dragging files in in groups. Finally, and most frustratingly, it will often not be up to date with what files are on the device, especially if you've recently deleted them. So, folders or files may still show up that you've recently deleted. Maybe this has been changed in ICS (I hope so!), but that's my experience.
That's your primary way on or off the device. I've had limited success using DDMS for transferring files on and off of the device, and although it's clunky and requires USB debugging mode, it's the most reliable way I've found for transfers that fail in the Transfer client. In practice, I'd recommend using something like SwiFTP to copy (smaller) files to and from your device, and avoiding the hassle when you can.
In short, you definitely CAN use OS X to transfer files onto and off of your Galaxy Nexus, but it's not as easy as it was for Gingerbread Devices, and tools like DoubleTwist and Songbird can no longer access your device at all (in their current versions). You can get around this using AirSync for DoubleTwist to load music, or doing so manually, but it's kludgey. It's unlikely that Apple will choose to support MTP in future versions of OS X (it's a Microsoft protocol now used mostly by Android), but hopefully Google will improve the tool as time goes on.
Sorry if this is all well known and obvious, but if you were on the fence about the GNex because of this, don't be. The MTP switch is annoying, but nothing showstopping, even for OS X. Just FYI.
wanderfowl said:
I've had a Motorola Xoom (which doesn't support USB host mode) for a while.
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Click to collapse
Which doesn't have USB Mass Storage mode (not USB Host - this is USB OTG where you can plug in other USB peripherals into the Xoom). Sorry just a pet peeve watching people confuse the two.
Thanks for an informative post. MTP looks like it is going to cause headaches to every non-Windows device by the looks of it. Ironic for a Linux based device ; ).
Jebus99 said:
Which doesn't have USB Mass Storage mode (not USB Host - this is USB OTG where you can plug in other USB peripherals into the Xoom). Sorry just a pet peeve watching people confuse the two.
Thanks for an informative post. MTP looks like it is going to cause headaches to every non-Windows device by the looks of it. Ironic for a Linux based device ; ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoops! Edited
So WiFi File Explorer outta work though if your other ftp type app did?
Thanks for the info. I remember using the app on my MacBook when I had the Xoom. I didn't mind it too much, but it was a tad annoying having to open the app rather than just pop open 'finder' and go. FWIW it DID work just fine for my couple months with the Xoom.
So WiFi File Explorer outta work though if your other ftp type app did?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, FTP apps of all sorts work fine. I use Transmit on the Mac to access the phone via FTP, and that works like a charm.
martonikaj said:
Thanks for the info. I remember using the app on my MacBook when I had the Xoom. I didn't mind it too much, but it was a tad annoying having to open the app rather than just pop open 'finder' and go. FWIW it DID work just fine for my couple months with the Xoom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works fine to the internal storage. Maybe I should've said explicitly that I had more issues using the Android File Transfer app with the SD Card in the Xoom.
I'm glad Google gave this a thought, now they should make one for linux too, but they probably won't.
wanderfowl said:
iTunes (obviously) won't see it.
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Click to collapse
My post is pointless, but hell will freeze over before iTunes recognizes a Samsung device, lol. If it wasn't for laws and standard, they wouldn't allow their PC to recognize Samsung devices either.
eksasol said:
I'm glad Google gave this a thought, now they should make one for linux too, but they probably won't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the nice part about Linux. The people working on Linux have an active incentive to add this functionality, as it improves the experience. With OS X, they have an active (marketing) reason to not add it, anti-competitive behavior. Don't give up hope
wanderfowl said:
It's unlikely that Apple will choose to support MTP in future versions of OS X (it's a Microsoft protocol now used mostly by Android), but hopefully Google will improve the tool as time goes on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a protocol native to the USB standard since 2008 so if Apple want to be standards compliant they should implement it. There are lots of other devices that use it as well.
wanderfowl said:
As far as I know, there's no way of enabling your Mac to see the device natively, and all of the software designed for other MTP devices that I've tried doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those apps probably just need an update to libmtp.. for some reason that library has the device ID of every device it supports hardcoded in, rather than working out whether a device supports mtp in other ways as things like windows do.
If anyone has ported mtpfs to OSX you should be able to get that going (will probably do that myself when I get time.. Android File Transfer is OK but a bit quirky).
blunden said:
It's a protocol native to the USB standard since 2008 so if Apple want to be standards compliant they should implement it. There are lots of other devices that use it as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Trust me, I'm not defending it, but I can't imagine Apple in its current state implementing a change which would help in supporting a competitor's product (especially Android) just to be open and compliant. Given how willing Apple as a company is to cut off its nose to spite its face, I doubt that they'll rush to help their users here. Prove me wrong, Apple.
TonyHoyle said:
Those apps probably just need an update to libmtp.. for some reason that library has the device ID of every device it supports hardcoded in, rather than working out whether a device supports mtp in other ways as things like windows do.
If anyone has ported mtpfs to OSX you should be able to get that going (will probably do that myself when I get time.. Android File Transfer is OK but a bit quirky).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've tried working with the existing mtpfs ports, but wasn't able to get very far at all. I'm hoping that ICS will spur people to develop further on that, maybe pulling it into MacFUSE.
wanderfowl said:
Trust me, I'm not defending it, but I can't imagine Apple in its current state implementing a change which would help in supporting a competitor's product (especially Android) just to be open and compliant. Given how willing Apple as a company is to cut off its nose to spite its face, I doubt that they'll rush to help their users here. Prove me wrong, Apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You certainly have a point and is the primary reason I dispise Apple as a company.
My main point was that it's not to be considered a "Microsoft protocol" as it's been part of the USB standard for years now. Nothing is stopping any OS from implementing it and as a standard they really should as it brings some nice improvements like not requiring the OS on the PC to have support for the filesystem used on the device. Considering FAT32 and exFAT are basically the only filesystems that work in all major OSes, the former being old and having severe limitations and the latter requiring a license it's nice to be able to use something like ext2/3/4 or any other filesystem of choice and still maintain compability.
Apple hasn't typically been particularly resistant to implementing standards and protocols used to communicate with 3rd party devices. Also, the major force behind Apple's resistance to just about everything is gone now... We'll see if they continue the trend without him.
Just bumping this again for the new crop of ICS users
So I've just gotten my VZW Gnex, and unfortunately, Android file transfer seems to have the same problems with not refreshing the files in the folder as it did on the Xoom.
That said, if you're trying to get into a given folder and your Android File Transfer can't see the contents (or the folder itself), just reboot the phone and when it comes back up, the new folder should be there and right as rain.
wanderfowl said:
OS X won't see it, DoubleTwist doesn't see it, Songbird won't and iTunes (obviously) won't see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If syncing with iTunes is your goal, you left out iSyncr. Our app can sync Android 3.0 and 4.0 devices with iTunes on a Mac over USB (and WiFi). If your Android device is supported by Android File Transfer, it is supported by iSyncr.
As always, you can shoot me an email if you are having an issue with this.
-Justin
I seem to be having a new issue. All of a sudden, I can't sync anything to my XOOM. I had to unlock, and re-unroot it to install ICS on it. I don't know why, but everytime I begin a transfer to my XOOM Android File Transfer instantly says that my my device is locked and I need unlock the screen and/or it can't access the media storage device. It's really frustrating. I can't push the SU.zip bc it gets lost in between the "Ext SD Card" and the "Internal SD Card." Long story short... my Xoom boots into ICS and runs perfectly fine, but I can't finish the root process. Any help?!
Android File Transfer supports files up to 4gb in size. This may be why you are having trouble transferring files that are 10 gb. At least this is the case in OS X Lion
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
I have rooted a few phones here and there but this is the first time I will be trying to root a fire tv. I have the box, not the stick and so far from what I understand I will be able to root this version with the ethernet trick. That is all I know, I dont know how to perform this trick for one, let alone the steps I need to perform afterwards. Here is some information I have.
Hardware Revision: 03
Software Revision:02
Likely software: 51.1.0.1 or 51.1.0.2
I plugged it in and it said it was updating but I didnt let it get anywhere near finishing the software download before unplugging it and stopping it. So here are some questions. After I get root, will I have to flash a custom rom like I would a phone? Will I still be able to use the original apps like netflix or will I have to do everything through XBMC? Is there really a way to watch theatre release movies or is this just a scam people try to use to get money from others?
Same problem for me heres my thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/fire-tv/general/root-help-to-device-t3017428#post58541250 maybe you can find something there
xxxFoopaTroopahXXX said:
I have rooted a few phones here and there but this is the first time I will be trying to root a fire tv. I have the box, not the stick and so far from what I understand I will be able to root this version with the ethernet trick. That is all I know, I dont know how to perform this trick for one, let alone the steps I need to perform afterwards. Here is some information I have.
Hardware Revision: 03
Software Revision:02
Likely software: 51.1.0.1 or 51.1.0.2
I plugged it in and it said it was updating but I didnt let it get anywhere near finishing the software download before unplugging it and stopping it. So here are some questions. After I get root, will I have to flash a custom rom like I would a phone? Will I still be able to use the original apps like netflix or will I have to do everything through XBMC? Is there really a way to watch theatre release movies or is this just a scam people try to use to get money from others?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you got to the registration screen you should be good but I'd go to aftvnews and read the starters guide. Also, what made you stop? Most people go as fast as they can to get the process started fearing Amazon might find a way to update.
Your first step should've been to block Amazon domains on your router. Did you?
Since you got to registration screen, you should be able to check the exact firmware.
In all likelihood you'll need to downgrade (follow that guide closely) Youll need cwm and will be using rbox firmware. Everything looks identical to stock (Netflix, prime, Amazon apps) Unless you decide to change it.
But seriously, I'll bet you find this trickier than your phones so read closely. I bought my 2nd aftv last month and the process was way more complicated than it was in June. But pay attention and double check your steps and you'll be ok.
Go here and follow the root guide. WWW.aftvnews.com
Whatever you do do not let the update go thru. There, you will also be instructed how to block the update from your wifi router and also prominently disable the update going forward.
Newbie_from_NJ said:
Go here and follow the root guide. WWW.aftvnews.com
Whatever you do do not let the update go thru. There, you will also be instructed how to block the update from your wifi router and also prominently disable the update going forward.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks I was just about to buy a fire tv from staples and was wondering does the firmware matter at this point
cpugeeker said:
Thanks I was just about to buy a fire tv from staples and was wondering does the firmware matter at this point
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just got a second unit yesterday - did the Ethernet unplug trick. USB storage is essential IMHO, so rooting is the only way to go.
I had the extra step of rolling back firmware, but it only took an extra 20 mins. I don't have a USB keyboard, so using putty on my laptop emulating a keyboard was also an extra step. I didn't do rboxs boot menu, don't really have a need yet?
Just unplug your internet from your router so you still can adb around on your local - no worries about updating while you fool around. Just make sure to have all the files local first - can block updates via adbfire or ftv toolbox whatever.
what are the advantages of rooting?
from what i understand without root we can stil install xmbc and playstore and apps
cpugeeker said:
what are the advantages of rooting?
from what i understand without root we can stil install xmbc and playstore and apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Main advantages are probably:
1. using the usb port for external storage since the ftv has such limited internal memory
2. being able to install the play store.
3. Enabling different launchers to react to the home button
This is tangential to the OP, but for me the remote management of an FTV is invaluable. I manage 6 FTVs now remotely with WebKey. Two days back, they send me 2 FTVs to upgrade (one old at the 51.1.1) and one brand new. They paid $15 bucks to ship and I paid the same for the return. Now, I don't have to pay that and avoid that cost (if not updating core OS/Bios stuff). That is a real dollar saving.
The point about Google Play is very true, not just for flexibility of installing, but also for using apps you already paid for (I would imagine that majority of paid apps do licence checking through Play infrastructure). That is a real dollar saving.
Using cheaper game controllers instead of buying OEM is a real dollar saving.
Creative uses of FTV like running a wireless router on it for non-intensive stuff is a real dollar saving. I am sure there are other creative ways to use it (with root) that talented people do without that information in public domain.
You need to extract real value out of your time to root. For some, its cost saving. For some, its ease of use. For some, it is the satisfaction of putting one over Amazon. For some, it is the value of learning about Linux/Android.
dbdoshi said:
This is tangential to the OP, but for me the remote management of an FTV is invaluable. I manage 6 FTVs now remotely with WebKey.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you say manage remotely, do you mean remote control they way LogMeIn and TeamViewer work?
I am not aware of the two apps you mentioned. But Webkey is a true Remote Desktop for Android. Once you log in from a browser into your FTV (local or remote, HTTP or HTTPS), you see the exact screen of your FTV mirrored in your browser. And you interact with it as if you were sitting in front of it. Basically, what you see is what you get. Other added benefits are push/pull files, run apps with one click, a terminal emulator (all done through your browser) and a virtual text entry box that you can type in and send your blob of text to the FTV to whatever apps/controls are in focus and waiting for input.
downgrade help
Hey guys,
Hoping to get some help. New to Android and AFTV but I feel like I've made it pretty far. I'm stuck on downgrading my 51.1.1.0 Firmware to 51.1.0.2_user_510058520. I'm specifically confused on step 9 below... I make it that far and I don't know much about echo.. I type the line exactly as shown, after hitting enter, I get the command prompt again (no acknowledgment - success or error message, do I assume it worked?)
when I continue on to step 12 and try to push the update.zip file I get "cannot start update.zip : No such file or directory". I'm on a MAC so the c: instructions don't help me. How do I tell terminal where to get the update.zip file from?
Thanks guys.
dbdoshi said:
I am not aware of the two apps you mentioned. But Webkey is a true Remote Desktop for Android. Once you log in from a browser into your FTV (local or remote, HTTP or HTTPS), you see the exact screen of your FTV mirrored in your browser. And you interact with it as if you were sitting in front of it. Basically, what you see is what you get. Other added benefits are push/pull files, run apps with one click, a terminal emulator (all done through your browser) and a virtual text entry box that you can type in and send your blob of text to the FTV to whatever apps/controls are in focus and waiting for input.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a 1st generation XBox that only has an Ethernet port. Is there a way to connect it to the Fire TV to get it access to my network through WiFi?
When Ethernet port is plugged in it disables wifi connectivity. after that a bunch more work making wifi the default gateway with routing... if it is possible. . prolly worth your time to just spend the $30 on an adapter for it or install dd-wrt on an old router you have laying around. . I had a similar request where I wanted to know if my firetv can double as a coffee maker but no-one has solved where to put the k-cup.
Its not so much the device in this case that is unfit for the purpose (well - unless it is, as described above.. ) - it is, that the minds that are interested in and forming around solving those problems are working on much better (reputation) and wider known projects - AND the devices they support cost anywhere from 10-30 bucks used already. So dont tell them why you bought a Fire TV instead.
I know that current "technophiles" see the world as app based solutions that will come to them if they ask around often enough - but really, we already are at the minimal knowledge and minimal cost stage - and they are in essence complaining about convenience.
I have a problem - and see the solution in this one ethernet port another device I bought already has. Let the internet work out the rest, I am waiting for my app - its already rooted, how hard could it be.
And thats not how this works.
First of - why should they be working on an app based solution? A functionality layer if you will - if they dont have control over the entire ecosystem and networking, I heard has something to do with security. Sometimes. And with devices that have to work longterm - quite unlike the little plastic box that currently sits under your TV. And that today is rooted but tomorrow might not be - because, well its not yours to decide. Entirely.
dd-wrt and openwrt are what you are looking for - but that was already mentioned by the person posting before me.
I'm just here to explain why the "asking for a service" mindset ultimately breaks, when it comes to open source movements. Especially when your demands get more and more specific. ("I have bought a...")
I can say all this, because I currently use ddwrt to service some of my needs and it works perfectly well, creating all kinds of synergies I actually actively use - many of which actually are real enablers for owners of Android based Kodi boxes.
Well - then again, it might actually work already... (Turn off WLAN in the gui, then enable it via the shell (maybe that way both can be set active at the same time) and start configuring iptables).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=444004
But understand that this would be very much a hack. So usability, interfaces, security concerns are not on the forefront of peoples minds. Also - have fun configuring ports that way (ftp mostly I suppose.. ) - if you dont want everything to be open.
Google and 2 minutes - btw.
When you read through the thread you start to recognize - that what you are actually looking for is implementation and support (Hence dd-wrt or openwrt). Also - it becomes very clear why this probably never will become an app (needs root, needs to install a new library (think of stuff only busybox does as a core function on android - this has to be vetted not to cause unexpected problems), still only circumvents Androids core functions (either ethernet OR wlan), isnt fully featured, and most of all - most technically inclined people who actually need the functionality simply buy into the dd-wrt or openwrt ecosystem and its all there already).
So to break it down to a few sentences - if you get a person willing to establish a very specific function for his/her own purpose against prior design on an open source OS, you are golden. But, you wont get them by randomly asking around for help on an internet forum. And dont expect to get entire featuresets or usability options alongside it. If you want those - and you do - go with the communities that are known for solving those problems and buy into the devices/ecosystems they use. 10-30 USD should be well worth it.
But if you are in a hacking state of mind - go for it and make those devices work like you want them to.
I apologize for being so frantic, but I'm really confused. I've seen things about using Kingo Root on a certain firmware and am worried my device will update on me. How can I get Kingo Root? Thanks so much!
Fire OS 5.0.5
FlashTheFox said:
I apologize for being so frantic, but I'm really confused. I've seen things about using Kingo Root on a certain firmware and am worried my device will update on me. How can I get Kingo Root? Thanks so much!
Fire OS 5.0.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are on OS 5.0.5 you can root it however after the procedure just disable updates and under any circumstances do not try to replace it with SU. (If you are looking for version 4.1 just scroll down to the bottom of first post however vs 4.6 should work as well).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/one-click-root-tool-android-2-x-5-0-t3107461
bula1ca said:
If you are on OS 5.0.5 you can root it however after the procedure just disable updates and under any circumstances do not try to replace it with SU. (If you are looking for version 4.1 just scroll down to the bottom of first post however vs 4.6 should work as well).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/one-click-root-tool-android-2-x-5-0-t3107461
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much. Could you explain the procedure briefly? How do I get the .apk on my Fire TV Stick, and what do I use to install it?
Here you will find a good guide how to do it...
--> http://www.aftvnews.com/start/
in theory could i flash rom on firestick with no root to cause boot loop on 5.2.1.1 to cancel out the not in my house system app and then run kingo pc to gain root and install the 5.0.5 firmware. im just wondering dont really want to try this my self with no recovery
On a related note, I just bought a FireTV stick yesterday. The "virgin" FireTV stick is doing the same thing as my Fire TV 2: It is requiring me to connect to a network before I can check the installed O/S version.
If I let the FireTV Stick connect to the internet, will it automatically upgrade to the latest unrootable O/S v5.2.1.1 before I can get to a menu to see my O/S version?
What are my options to root & block updates on my new FTVS if I don't know what O/S version is installed?
@¿GotJazz?:
The answer is to pull the plug on your wireless router as soon as the authentication gets through. Blocking amazons update servers also blocks authentication - afair. You could also change the Wifi Password beforehand (to something short preferably) - and then switch it back to the old one - once you "hot" unplugged the Wifi router after the authentication goes through (and youve turned off the fire tv stick). That way the stick won't autoconnect the next time its turned on.
Also - Amazons firmware updates up until now have been incremental - so it is not uncommon for a FIre TV stick to have to update several times in a row - with several update packages - to get on the latest firmware version. This gives you a little security buffer - at least potentially/theoretically.
Thanks, @harlekinwashere - I followed your advice as best as I could. I had my router set so that Amazon updates were visible, and I saw the Fire Stick check for updates. After it checked on updates, I temporarily turned off my WiFi on my router, and then reconfigured my router to block Amazon updates via OpenDNS.
My FireTV Stick is at O/S v5.0.5.1. I don't know if I should upgrade or not, but I did block updates on the Stick via Method #2 here.
I haven't found any recent FTV-S ROMs or TWRP yet, but at least I can hold off Amazon updates for now until somebody finds a solution.
From what I have seen, the only rooting solution for now on the FTV-S 5.0.5.1 is KingoRoot, correct?
Cheers,
¿GJ?
Correct - the only (software) rooting solutions available for the Fire TV Stick - ever - were either King Root or Kingo Root. There was a HW rooting method before - but it required some very precise soldering with extra thin wires and...
Kingoroot and Kingroot arent optimal either - as they do act as bloatware from time to time - so the first time I rooted my Fire TV stick, was when the tutorial to "replace Kingoroot/Kingroot" with SuperSU popped up.
I froze my update schedule on firmware 5.0.5 - as I very much enjoy the features of Firestarter ("force exit app", or delete app data for a certain app are crucial every day tasks - that you can perform with firestarter MUCH faster, than with the stock UI.
Amazon started to play BS cat&mouse games with Firestarter - because it wanted you to experience banner ads, while choosing your apps - essentially. And steal its functionality. And steal UI design from Kodi and Microsofts Xbox UI. And be buddy, buddy with Plex so the "I needz it to be eazy" crowd had another monthly subscription path Amazon could cut into. (Here is how that goes. Kodi = distributed, native rendering, Plex = transcoding (why?), server dependent, login required, pays for Amazon cloud storage, gets featured on their main page, had to make concessions to never ever, allow python scripts, because an internet we understand is bad for corp. And why was Kodi banned? Because it acted like a browsing platform, Outside the amazon and affiliates ecosystem - so amazon ran a smear campaign. The product blogger was very understanding...)
The Amazon product blogger that ran this community here for a while - decided to praise them for waging war against an alternative Launcher (that btw didn't replace the original interface, but rather linked to it by default) -- instead of antagonising it as an "unprecedented move - never seen anywhere on android before" -- so we HAD to split as a community.
People who actually use the FIre TV for stuff, stayed mostly on 5.0.5 or 5.0.5.1. While the rest didnt care and not only lost Firestarter functionality, but also full adb access (its only the last remaining interface into the FireTV, why not mess with it, until its much less usable, right Amazon?) - and didn't care.
Now - using Xposed modules - you can replicate most of Firestarters features on 5.0.5.1 and above (on 5.0.5.1 you could at least use firestopper, but Amazon took that away as well (or will do so shortly - havent followed up on how far they have come.)) - using a certain Xposed Module - but as always, you have to be extra careful with them on FireTV Sticks - as you don't have a working recovery on them currently. Its best to install only modules others have tested and that are confirmed working.
Also as a result of the community split - the community never really recovered. It wasn't especially active beforehand (despite frequent help soliciting from "I bought a fully loaded... - it stopped working" folks), but with the product blogger "gone" (less interested in the hacking scene, because of the fragmentation after the "split") that wrote most of the tutorials - and put them on his blog to commercialize them - even that stopped.
Amazon so far has not halted content delivery to older firmware boxes (good idea, because despite everything else, I still buy apps) - but they could at any time, If they chose to.
Long story short. Amazon is the worst. They acted like malicious bullies, implemented tripwire routines, blacklists, froze apps they had no discernable right to even access. On devices that arent "owned" by the customers who bought them, according to some license agreement you clicked through. No one even halfheartedly whispered, that this is a real issue - and what they did was malicious -
now, its basically over. There was no pushback - the scene basically turned over on its back and surrendered under the de facto leadership of a product blogger that had them cheer for it. #cheeringforcompanyblacklists-onadeviceyoubought.
Just in case some day a historian stumbles over this - and wonders what happened.
@harlekinwashere - Does that mean that nobody is working on a TWRP Recovery / ROM for the FireTV v1 Stick? I have held off on the Kingoroot method for now (unsure about security/malware), hoping that a real ROM/Recovery become available.
any way to enable OTG on a 5.2.1.1 fire stick?