Develop Bugs

Will GPU handle the UI smoother than the cpu ?

I am having a little argument with an iPhone sheep, and I told him the future Android phones will be much smoother for one main reason, they will change the UI acceleration to be handled by the GPU, instead of the cpu now. He said no way, Apple's iPhone will still be smoother, GPU or not, Android will still be choppy, compared to the iPhone.
How do you answer a Apple die hard like that ?
Is there an interview somewhere with Google developers talking about changing to GPU acceleration ?

You were right, leave it be.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

There's absolutely no reason why Android couldn't run as smooth as the iPhone with the right optimizations and the right hardware. The Evo has two problems. The first is, as you said, that Android isn't using GPU acceleration in the interface, at least not effectively. That's on Google to fix.
The second problem is that the Adreno 200 GPU that's part of the Snapdragon processor we have is not as powerful as what the iPhone has, or even what other Android phones have, such as the Samsung Galaxy S. Even without whatever shifts to the GPU future versions of Android might have, the Galaxy S's Hummingbird is unquestionably smoother than the Evo's Snapdragon. I bought the Evo after the Epic was out and am happy with the choice, but on performance, the Epic was clearly better and arguably comparable to the iPhone in smoothness. So even without any software changes, the next generation of system-on-a-chip platforms (CPU + GPU) will narrow the gap significantly.
Combine both optimized software and better hardware, and it should be able to match the iPhone without a problem.

bkrodgers said:
There's absolutely no reason why Android couldn't run as smooth as the iPhone with the right optimizations and the right hardware. The Evo has two problems. The first is, as you said, that Android isn't using GPU acceleration in the interface, at least not effectively. That's on Google to fix.
The second problem is that the Adreno 200 GPU that's part of the Snapdragon processor we have is not as powerful as what the iPhone has, or even what other Android phones have, such as the Samsung Galaxy S. Even without whatever shifts to the GPU future versions of Android might have, the Galaxy S's Hummingbird is unquestionably smoother than the Evo's Snapdragon. I bought the Evo after the Epic was out and am happy with the choice, but on performance, the Epic was clearly better and arguably comparable to the iPhone in smoothness. So even without any software changes, the next generation of system-on-a-chip platforms (CPU + GPU) will narrow the gap significantly.
Combine both optimized software and better hardware, and it should be able to match the iPhone without a problem.
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speaking of the hummingbird, isn't the A4 processor that apple uses a custom built hummingbird processor?

nosympathy said:
speaking of the hummingbird, isn't the A4 processor that apple uses a custom built hummingbird processor?
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They're similar. Samsung makes both, but Apple had some hand in the design of the A4. More accurately, a company called Intrinsity, which Apple acquired.

Isn't the official use of the GPU to handle the UI acceleration going to be standard in "Ice Cream Sandwich" update ? And what OS # is Ice Cream going to be ? And approx release date ? 2nd half of 2011 I believe ?

Zorachus said:
Isn't the official use of the GPU to handle the UI acceleration going to be standard in "Ice Cream Sandwich" update ? And what OS # is Ice Cream going to be ? And approx release date ? 2nd half of 2011 I believe ?
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Honeycomb has it.
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914#c197
It's unclear exactly what this means for phones right now. Honeycomb is for tablets, but they've also introduced API improvements and behind the scenes enhancements (like this one) that are unquestionably needed for phones.
It's sounding like Ice Cream may be that release, and it's probably going to be announced at Google I/O in May (speculation). It's possible we could see a scaled down version of Honeycomb for phones released before then. It's more a question of timing and names though -- whatever the next release of Android is for phones, I would expect it to have it.
It's even possible folks here will find a way to get Honeycomb working on phones in some form before we see anything official. That might be tough, since we'd want to keep the smaller screen UI of Gingerbread and just pull in the API and implementation improvements we want. But I'm always impressed by what people pull off here.

i altered a line on my old hero to use hw rendering for the ui and junk-it seemed to help a little. perhaps the same line can be tweaked/added for the evo. it was in the build prop i believe...

wp7 dream

hey guys
I owner samsung omnia EU version
and Im already dreaming with new devices
Im in love with samsung galaxy S2 but i dont want android anymore
my next device need to look like galaxy s2
1-Super AMOLED Plus 4.3
2-Processor Dual-core
3-Memory 1024 MB RAM
what do you think I see to for android is coming great generation of smartphone
do you dream too??

I have dreams, but not about cell phones..........

My Omnia 7 currently runs eveything on the WP7 platform perfectly smooth. To that end i do not see why increased hardware performance is needed. Only thing i would need at the moment is increased storage.

because when the next version of wp os realized,it would require more higher gauge of your device,dual-core,bigger screen,bigger ram,are the fasion of future
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

You don`t need dual-core cpu for text acceleration.

The only OS that needs dual-core to run is Android, and even then, according to reviews of dual-core phones, it still lags.
WP7 is perfectly happy on a single core processor, so why waste the battery running two cores?

i have omnia 7 but 8 GB is too small i need 32 GB

What are the differences between 1st Gen and 2nd Gen WP devices for Apollo.

When I read some threads in this forum, I keep on seeing people making comments like 2nd gen WP devices like TItan II and Lumia 900 getting Apollo updates but not 1st gen devices like my HD7 because of hardware. It makes me laugh coz the question is whats the difference between this devices in general.
Just look at this:
1st gen and 2nd gen have the same 512 MB ROM,
The have the Same 512 MB RAM (even more on my HD7 which has a RAM of 576MB)
CPU speed is just a difference of 0.5 (1ghz for 1st gen and maximum of 1.5ghz for 2nd gen)
Based on these important specs, why can one then say 2nd gen can get Apollo updates whilst 1st gen can't. I mean based on what? cpu what?
I even see people writing that, Tango devices are similar to 1st gen so both wont get Apollo and 2nd gen will get...what the heck? With tango devices running half of all these specs? How can you write something like this...SMH.

I have always wondered the same thing. I could see certain companies (cough cough AT&T cough cough) not pushing any update for Gen 1 since it will have been 2 years since the phones were launched.
The only issue I can really see is that the OS might need different drivers to run Windows Phone 8 due to a very different kernel. This would mean the manufacturer would have to release a driver update for a 2 year old phone. Thus, I could see Samsung (for example) only releasing drivers for the Focus S and Focus Flash, but not the original Focus.

Didn't microsoft promised support to all the phones for like 3 years or something? I remember people saying that continued support is another reason for them to buy WP7.

lamborg said:
Didn't microsoft promised support to all the phones for like 3 years or something? I remember people saying that continued support is another reason for them to buy WP7.
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No, they said two major upgrades.
So that means: Mango, Tango.

More answers to the same question here.

EgoMaximus said:
No, they said two major upgrades.
So that means: Mango, Tango.
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But Tango is a Minor update right? That means it's left with One major update.

Kenzibit said:
But Tango is a Minor update right? That means it's left with One major update.
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True tango just like nodo are consider minor updates.And if they promise 2 major updates that should be mango and apollo.

Kenzibit said:
Just look at this:
1st gen and 2nd gen have the same 512 MB ROM,
The have the Same 512 MB RAM (even more on my HD7 which has a RAM of 576MB)
CPU speed is just a difference of 0.5 (1ghz for 1st gen and maximum of 1.5ghz for 2nd gen)
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Click to collapse
You don't understand how hardware works do you?
Yes they have the same amount of RAM, but it is most likely faster RAM like DDR2 compared to DDR3.
Yes, the clock speed is only .4-.5 GHz faster, but that's a 40-50% gain in clock alone nevermind the fact that the newer Snapdragon does more work per clock cycle. So, you're talking 2-3 times the performance.
The GPU in the newer Snapdragon is also 2-3 times faster & that SoC also has better battery life thanks the the smaller nm technology.
Also, you're forgetting about the hardware level enhancements to the chips. Basically talking about SSE/etc. equivalent. Certain versions of Adobe Photoshop won't work on certain CPU's just because a lack of SSE.
Spec sheets mean nothing if you don't know this kind of information. It'd be like compared an AMD Athlon XP 2.5 GHz CPU to a AMD 2.5 GHz x64. They are both 2.5 GHz & were out at the same time, but the x64 was vastly superior & not just because it was a 64-bit CPU. Another example is Celeron/Pentium. Granted thread, that huge performance increase was Cache memory.

These differences are not much if I'm right. They just can't choose to upgrade 2nd gen devices and leave these 1st gen based on this small difference. I would understand if it were between a single core and a dual core.

Right said!

ieatrappers said:
true tango just like nodo are consider minor updates.and if they promise 2 major updates that should be mango and apollo.
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rightly said!!

iEatRappers said:
True tango just like nodo are consider minor updates.And if they promise 2 major updates that should be mango and apollo.
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Click to collapse
I think you are in for a nice surprise then. It will bring more than NoDo ever did
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
You don't understand how hardware works do you?
Yes they have the same amount of RAM, but it is most likely faster RAM like DDR2 compared to DDR3.
Yes, the clock speed is only .4-.5 GHz faster, but that's a 40-50% gain in clock alone nevermind the fact that the newer Snapdragon does more work per clock cycle. So, you're talking 2-3 times the performance.
The GPU in the newer Snapdragon is also 2-3 times faster & that SoC also has better battery life thanks the the smaller nm technology.
Also, you're forgetting about the hardware level enhancements to the chips. Basically talking about SSE/etc. equivalent. Certain versions of Adobe Photoshop won't work on certain CPU's just because a lack of SSE.
Spec sheets mean nothing if you don't know this kind of information. It'd be like compared an AMD Athlon XP 2.5 GHz CPU to a AMD 2.5 GHz x64. They are both 2.5 GHz & were out at the same time, but the x64 was vastly superior & not just because it was a 64-bit CPU. Another example is Celeron/Pentium. Granted thread, that huge performance increase was Cache memory.
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This.

EgoMaximus said:
I think you are in for a nice surprise then. It will bring more than NoDo ever did
This.
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If I may ask, are you a Microsoft guy? The answer you gave us is kind of specific....it's like you've seen and used Tango on a device.

Sounds like EgoMaximus works in Microsoft. Interesting what we will see soon.
Sent from my TITAN X310e using Board Express

I think we will get window Apollo on 1st gen handsets but I think it is going to be some what crippled with not all the functionality that 3rd or what ever there up the when it finally launches will have.

No win 8 for WP7 device
Sadly i think is quite clear we wont see WP8 on our Gen 1 and 2 devices. Its not that the phones spec's and performance are too low. Microsoft made it quite clear that Win on Arm requires UEFI firmware /w secure boot and ACPI power management.

eviloverlord said:
Sadly i think is quite clear we wont see WP8 on our Gen 1 and 2 devices. Its not that the phones spec's and performance are too low. Microsoft made it quite clear that Win on Arm requires UEFI firmware /w secure boot and ACPI power management.
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yes that is true for Windows 8 for ARM, but Windows 8 for ARM =/= Windows Phone 8, yes they will share things but they are not the same.

lamborg said:
Didn't microsoft promised support to all the phones for like 3 years or something? I remember people saying that continued support is another reason for them to buy WP7.
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Tell that to AT&T. Still on 7720 here dealing with the keyboard disappearing problem every single day.

karan1203 said:
Tell that to AT&T. Still on 7720 here dealing with the keyboard disappearing problem every single day.
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Update yourself

Nitro_123 said:
Update yourself
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Agreed. Screw ATT - updated my titan with the cab sender. just make sure you also put in the language packs for each update. Took me like 5 minutes.

New Archos Gen 9 tablet ICS+1.5GHZ+1Go Ram

ICS
1.5 ghz (omap 4460)
1 go de ram
http://www.jbmm.fr/?p=26999

is there any benefit to have 1gb ram? I can't think of anything I could possibly do to use that much ram on my tablet. does it increase overall stability or anything?

1gb really?
...are you *positive* about 1gb ram? The ARCHOS website doesn't mention it like that and from what I hear the new ones too have "only" 512mb.

ducatisto said:
...are you *positive* about 1gb ram? The ARCHOS website doesn't mention it like that and from what I hear the new ones too have "only" 512mb.
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if cajl says it it's probably true. besides it makes sense. all manufacturers are gonna jump on the bandwagon and make all devices with 1gb+ ram

for the 1go YES it is true - mail from Archos -
the benefit...what benefit. Perhaps a little more....

cajl said:
for the 1go YES it is true - mail from Archos -
the benefit...what benefit. Perhaps a little more....
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Click to collapse
I think it's not much difference.....Into Nexus S with 512Mb RAM and only 1GHz ICS run very well almost as fluently as Motorola RAZR 1Gb RAM and with dual-core 1.2GHz
Problem is slightly different if we refer to games !

Yes for the game

Not 1gb RAM in A80
Have just received a brand new 1.5Ghz Archos 80 G9 ref 502036 expecting 1gb RAM: system info app confirms 1.5 Ghz but only 466Mb RAM (i.e. 512Mb model).

where have you buy this model ?

Hi cajl I bought it in the UK: couldn't get it anywhere until last Friday when I got a stock notification email: now quite a few suppliers are offering it again.
Some suppliers are advertising it as 1gb but Archos on their web store do not specifiy the RAM (all with the same model number).
I have contacted Archos but honestly, the guys there do not have a clue! They have escalated my query this time however, which is, "is there a 502036 available with 1gb RAM, because my model only has 512mb".
One of the suppliers advertising it as 1gb is also following up the query for me with Archos. All they can say is that Archos notified them the new stock would be 1gb RAM but their item looks identical to mine in every way (and to the one on the Archos web-site - all the same model number of course too).
Very surprised that even with part number, model number, product ID and everything, Archos could not tell me what my RAM was: I had to download an app to find out myself.
They also insisted that unless Ice cream sandwich was pre-installed, it was not 1.5Ghz: but mine definitely is, even though it still only has Android 3.2!

MikeEdward said:
Hi cajl I bought it in the UK: couldn't get it anywhere until last Friday when I got a stock notification email: now quite a few suppliers are offering it again.
Some suppliers are advertising it as 1gb but Archos on their web store do not specifiy the RAM (all with the same model number).
I have contacted Archos but honestly, the guys there do not have a clue! They have escalated my query this time however, which is, "is there a 502036 available with 1gb RAM, because my model only has 512mb".
One of the suppliers advertising it as 1gb is also following up the query for me with Archos. All they can say is that Archos notified them the new stock would be 1gb RAM but their item looks identical to mine in every way (and to the one on the Archos web-site - all the same model number of course too).
Very surprised that even with part number, model number, product ID and everything, Archos could not tell me what my RAM was: I had to download an app to find out myself.
They also insisted that unless Ice cream sandwich was pre-installed, it was not 1.5Ghz: but mine definitely is, even though it still only has Android 3.2!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a 501840,
Came preinstalled with honeycomb and showed only 512 RAM until I updated to ICS where it shows 1GB.

One user from this forum just had de same problem...do the update to ics and it should say 1GB...it due kernel limitations in honeycomb...
this did the trick for the guy i+m talking about...i hope
MikeEdward said:
Hi cajl I bought it in the UK: couldn't get it anywhere until last Friday when I got a stock notification email: now quite a few suppliers are offering it again.
Some suppliers are advertising it as 1gb but Archos on their web store do not specifiy the RAM (all with the same model number).
I have contacted Archos but honestly, the guys there do not have a clue! They have escalated my query this time however, which is, "is there a 502036 available with 1gb RAM, because my model only has 512mb".
One of the suppliers advertising it as 1gb is also following up the query for me with Archos. All they can say is that Archos notified them the new stock would be 1gb RAM but their item looks identical to mine in every way (and to the one on the Archos web-site - all the same model number of course too).
Very surprised that even with part number, model number, product ID and everything, Archos could not tell me what my RAM was: I had to download an app to find out myself.
They also insisted that unless Ice cream sandwich was pre-installed, it was not 1.5Ghz: but mine definitely is, even though it still only has Android 3.2!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

yes .. the update on ICS increase the RAM !!!!
Archos, it's a kind of magic !!!

magic indeed! Even as I read this thread, updates appear to have downloaded - but still I have 466 MB ram. Let me see if a reboot will activate the magic for me!

Is it the honeycomb update or the ice cream sandwich one?
For me, I could not update to ice cream sandwich with the tablet updater. I had to manually download the update here:
http://update.archos.com/9/gen9/gen9_4.0.4/firmware_archos_it4.aos
Download this file, connect the tablet to your computer, copy this file over onto the tablet, the tablet should ask you if you want to install the update (if it doesn't, find and select the file in the file browser on the tablet) then let it update.
Once you have Ice Cream Sandwich running you should have your 1gb of RAM.

Unbelievable: magic indeed! Tablet has auto updated (once I realised I had to request the install) from honeycomb to ICS and now has full 1gb ram (well, 'max 892Mb anyhow')!
Why o why can't Archos put this basic information on their web-site instead of just staying absolutely silent about the RAM? Only you guys, especially calj, not even Archos customer service or tech support (not at the customer interface level anyhow) have any idea what is going on! I guess the update would have happened anyway, but some of us like to know what is going on and to be sure we have got the right product.
Thanks again to all who have correctly informed me here.

Does this also apply to the 1.2GHz Turbo models? When I updated to ICS, it didn't show the 1GB of RAM, but I'm hopeful if I downgrade to Honeycomb, then upgrade to ICS that it might "unlock" it.

Dabaum said:
Does this also apply to the 1.2GHz Turbo models? When I updated to ICS, it didn't show the 1GB of RAM, but I'm hopeful if I downgrade to Honeycomb, then upgrade to ICS that it might "unlock" it.
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Click to collapse
No, it doesn't apply to 1.2, Archos added memory very recently and it's only available on what they called ICS models.
It's not the fimrware installation that unlocks it, it's because ICS kernel is the only one that can handle it. So downgrading/upgrading won't work, and downgrading is not possible anyway.

Got my g9 101 ICS 1.5ghz 1gb few days ago. Seems like hdmi-out is completely broken for me. Tried with the official 4.04 and the test firmware no change. Have also tried keeping hdmi connected when booting the device and still nothing. Is everyone with g9 101 ics having this same issue?

Max 890MB
Dear All,
I am new to forum. I just bought the 1.5Ghz and updated to ICS. My RAM is showing 890mb max. Please is this equivalent to 1gb ram

Will we see OpenGL ES 3.2?

Ok, so I just ordered a Mi Max 128GB/4GB for Black Friday (from geekbuying) and was wondering if this device can actually support OpenGL ES 3.2, and I am asking if it can support it hardware-wise cause I know it won't work on android <7.0, so anyone know?

Adreno 5xx series GPU's have full support for EGL 3.2 with Android extension along with Vulkan support. So it's expected that they will be supported in Android 7~7.1.
Edit: & Android 7.0.1 is definitely coming (probably early next year in stable update):
http://en.miui.com/thread-420161-1-1.html

Zola III said:
Adreno 5xx series GPU's have full support for EGL 3.2 with Android extension along with Vulkan support. So it's expected that they will be supported in Android 7~7.1.
Edit: & Android 7.0.1 is definitely coming (probably early next year in stable update):
http://en.miui.com/thread-420161-1-1.html
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Click to collapse
Thank you, that's what I was expecting as well but even on Qualcomm's site the specs of the 510 are not clearly stated, also good to know we will in fact get 7.0.1 (although I plan to stay away from MIUI).
This should mean we might even be able to get at least somewhat decent Wii&GC emulation on this device in the future which is pretty exciting for me since there are still a lot of games I bought and never got around to finishing or even playing.

Ranomez said:
Thank you, that's what I was expecting as well but even on Qualcomm's site the specs of the 510 are not clearly stated, also good to know we will in fact get 7.0.1 (although I plan to stay away from MIUI).
This should mean we might even be able to get at least somewhat decent Wii&GC emulation on this device in the future which is pretty exciting for me since there are still a lot of games I bought and never got around to finishing or even playing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have to high hopes that Dolphine emulator will fly on Adreno 510, the driver's especially sheder compiler are far cry from anything good also hardware capabilities (EGLS 3.2, Testilation engine & Vulkan compatibility) don't count much without proper & good driver's support. On the current Android gaming scene A510 is wonderful but it won't shy with Dolphine (nothing will, best behaviour you will have with New Rogue series [Imagination Technology] but their is no any newer SoC for Android with it we will see how will MTK X30 behave 2Q next year).
Edit: By the way this whose a best deal for it when I searched wanting to buy a full prime one in the mean time I decided not to go with it & instead both a 3/32GB S650 version in land where I live. But search again me by you can find a better deal.
https://toponedigital.aliexpress.com/store/group/Xiaomi-MAX/342812_507286278.html
Best regards.

Zola III said:
Don't have to high hopes that Dolphine emulator will fly on Adreno 510, the driver's especially sheder compiler are far cry from anything good also hardware capabilities (EGLS 3.2, Testilation engine & Vulkan compatibility) don't count much without proper & good driver's support. On the current Android gaming scene A510 is wonderful but it won't shy with Dolphine (nothing will, best behaviour you will have with New Rogue series [Imagination Technology] but their is no any newer SoC for Android with it we will see how will MTK X30 behave 2Q next year).
Edit: By the way this whose a best deal for it when I searched wanting to buy a full prime one in the mean time I decided not to go with it & instead both a 3/32GB S650 version in land where I live. But search again me by you can find a better deal.
https://toponedigital.aliexpress.com/store/group/Xiaomi-MAX/342812_507286278.html
Best regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not say it would fly but it would have at least somewhat decent performance which for me means playable, especially since most of the games I want to play are for GC not Wii and are RPG games (except perhaps the Sonic Adventure games but I can play the DC version of those if the performance is too bad), the only few Wii games I would like to play would anyway not be practical (if possible at all) because they use the huge mess that the Wiimote is (mainly Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World).
Plus I have seen Snapdragon 808 with the 7.0 dev preview (OpenGL ES 3.2 supported) running Dolphin quite well and even with lower performance that would be enough for me.
Either way I would probably end up starting the games and not finishing them for a long time as I keep doing, start them while traveling and then too busy with College and stuff to finish them and then start an other game (like I did with 7th Dragon 3 on my 3DS, Tales of Eternia for PSP and countless others) but it would still be nice to know I at least have the possibility of playing those games on the go.

Well A518 can all A418 on S808 can & probably a little more in time when drivers support all capabilities along with games/emus. Then that is settled its enough for you & it is a pleasurable experience to play on such a large display.
Best regards.