Develop Bugs

Thinking of buying, got a few questions.

1. Someone on here said that the autobrightness problem(Which if I understood it right, is that the phone changed the brightness itself) has been fixed. Is that correct? I'd control the brightness now?
2. I've been reading on here all afternoon about rooting the Play, am I right in understanding that the whole rooting process is done on the phone itself? and that after rooting, I can just freeze the bloatware and that will give me the improved battery life and still allow me to use Over-The-Air updates?
3. I've also read on here about buttons falling out. Is that a widespread problem or just one or two unlucky people?
4. All the games are saved to the SD card, right? I don't have to worry about running out of space? and what's the average file size for Xperia Play games? I've never really played games on an Android phone before.
5. Is there any of problems I should know about before buying?
Thanks anyone who answers.

Im a noob to the play but I will answer from my limited experience
1. I updated to 2.3.3. I have a widget toggle that appears to allow me to to turn the brightness on or off. So I have not had any issues with it being too dark. I must admit the auto brightness in my old phone (orange san Francisco) was very good and the play doesnt seem to match it. maybe 2.3.4 has improved functions. Not a big problem though as I use the toggle.
2. not sure to be honest. I have not bothered rooting this phone. I used to mess about with the OSF with roms etc. but I dont feel the need to on this.
3. my power button gets stuck on the case edge and needs to be lifed to undo! Luckily I never use the power button or it could get irksome. All the functions like airplane and such can be toggled with widgets.
4. Yes and no. I am not 100% but I think the system games appear to be on the system memory only and cant be moved. All new games can of course be moved to SD (if it allows etc). I installed one game from ea and before I moved it to SD I was being told I was low on space... So there isnt a tonne of room.
5. The only issue I have is the mentioned power button. Considering I have sat here playing pilot wings and final fight perfectly, I will so utterly forgive the little beast
I think its the best value £150 you can spend. The screen is also lovely for media playback and since my PSP broke its been wonderful actually converting videos to watch on the nice screen

Just to answer the question about the root.
Yes, almost everything is done on the phone itself. Rooting on 2.3.2 is very easy to do. After you root, you can grab titanium backup and freeze unwanted apps. Just make sure you ONLY update via OTA after you root to avoid losing root.
If you haven't seen this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1294129
I recommend you reading it.

The Alpha Gamer said:
1. Someone on here said that the autobrightness problem(Which if I understood it right, is that the phone changed the brightness itself) has been fixed. Is that correct? I'd control the brightness now?
2. I've been reading on here all afternoon about rooting the Play, am I right in understanding that the whole rooting process is done on the phone itself? and that after rooting, I can just freeze the bloatware and that will give me the improved battery life and still allow me to use Over-The-Air updates?
3. I've also read on here about buttons falling out. Is that a widespread problem or just one or two unlucky people?
4. All the games are saved to the SD card, right? I don't have to worry about running out of space? and what's the average file size for Xperia Play games? I've never really played games on an Android phone before.
5. Is there any of problems I should know about before buying?
Thanks anyone who answers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. As of the last version, 2.3.4, the auto brightness issue has disappeared. People complained that it was too dark by default and that the maximum brightness was capped, but the last version corrected that.
2. Check my signature
3. While there are debatable design choices like the power buttons and the slider feels a bit lose , I wouldn't say they're big issues, or widespread.
4. One of the big gripes with the play is the scarce internal storage. games are usually moved to the Sd, but they still may leave a trace in the internal storage. When that trace is circa 1 mb you won't be bothered, but when it's 20 megabytes, that's a five percent of your whole storage.
5. It's a good phone, sturdy and reliable. I know it's moved me away from touch screen only phones.

Thanks for the answers guys, i'm seriously considering upgrading to this right now from my Samsung Galaxy Ace
DrEzkimo said:
I think its the best value £150 you can spend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are you finding it for £150? The best i've found is £180.
11anthony said:
Just to answer the question about the root.
Yes, almost everything is done on the phone itself. Rooting on 2.3.2 is very easy to do. After you root, you can grab titanium backup and freeze unwanted apps. Just make sure you ONLY update via OTA after you root to avoid losing root.
If you haven't seen this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1294129
I recommend you reading it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do only do updates OTA, I don't plug my phones up to my windows laptop and updates seem hard or impossible on Linux.
and I hadn't found that thread yet, I'll take a look, thanks!

If you only do updates OTA, forget about custom ROMs and the like.

Logseman said:
If you only do updates OTA, forget about custom ROMs and the like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm ok with stock roms until support stops, and it's been confirmed that all of this year's Xperia phones are getting ICS hasn't it? So I'm ok until Jellybean or whatever they end up calling it

it was £150 at o2
btw I couldnt update mine over the air had to be plugged into a computer and for some reason the first win7 machine didnt work but the main PC did.

DrEzkimo said:
it was £150 at o2
btw I couldnt update mine over the air had to be plugged into a computer and for some reason the first win7 machine didnt work but the main PC did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok
and that's kinda weird, right?
And I just thought of another question, the Play is HDPI right, not MDPI?

Yes sir. 854x480 for a four inch screen makes it a High Dot Per Inch device.

Just ordered it, thanks for the help guys!

goodluck and see you and your device soon here at the XP forums

gonemad02 said:
goodluck and see you and your device soon here at the XP forums
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, it arrives tomorrow.
Now for already bought it questions: I'm guessing the first thing I should do is root it? and are there any other free game offers atm besides the 4 EA ones? lol

hey dude where did you bought your xplay? And, are you from england?

pelly_jelly said:
hey dude where did you bought your xplay? And, are you from england?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I'm from England, I ordered this one from Argos. http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/s...=1500002901&langId=-1&searchTerms=XPERIA+PLAY It's out of stock atm, but then it was on Saturday when I checked but they had some back in Sunday when I ordered so they still seem to be getting some. Mine arrives tomorrow apparently.

[Q] Jumping From the Fruit but need help/advice - please

Hi guys, I'm an utter Android Noob (I've watched noob video - yes I'm a noob). After finally getting fed up with waiting for the Big Fruit to release a significant upgrade to the iPhone for 3+ years (still got a 3GS as my primary phone on a great contract - unlimited everything for next to nothing) and not seeing even the 5 as a big enough step forward (and ios6 a step back) I'm jumping ship. I nearly did last year for the Note I but the II has finally convinced me - its better and, just as important, cheaper!
At 40 my eyes are a bit tired for teeny tiny screens and my ipad2 is too heavy to carry around all day (and has no digital pen!) but will not be replaced anytime soon due to my heavy investment in ios apps. So the GNII seems the perfect "all day" device for me - that decision is made - PROBABLY. (I have no doubt the GNII is the best there is for me, but the answers to the following questions MAY mean its not ideal for me right now)
I have searched around a lot over the past month or so (here and elsewhere) but I either can't find, or don't understand, the answer to, probably, a simple question:
From what I understand, the internal storage on the GNII in the UK seems unlikely to exceed 16GB on contract in the UK anytime soon (might go to 32GB but 64 seems far, far away) and the SD card is awesome - I will get a 64GB card immediately. So I'll have approx a tasty 80GB of storage overall (yes I know a bit is lost to file structure etc but near enough) BUT - I'm a App addict (part of the reason I've been tied to apple for so long) and from what I understand the actual Apps on the GNII are installed on the internal (16GB) storage - I'd fill this in a few days I'm sure (my 64GB iPad is full - 32GB Music - rest is apps - most used regularly)
QUESTION: WITHOUT ROOTING (this scares me at the moment - never even jail broke iPhone) how easy is it to get your apps to install onto the SD? - I understand for some other phones (SGIII) there are apps/hacks which allow this but, due to the file structure of the GNII, some/all don't work (I may be wrong - please don't lynch me - noob!)
If its not possible without serious OS trickery my purchase will have to wait until I can get my hands on at least a 32GB one, preferably 64GB, but if its easy (and safe) ill be getting the 16Gb one ASAP - as I'm sure it will be significantly cheaper than the others.
One day I'll root - I tend to keep my phones for 2-4 years and like to fiddle (part of the reason dated ios bores me), but ATM I just want it to work (and update)
Oh that reminds me - I read somewhere that IF apps are mounted on the SD then google play doesn't recognise them for auto updates - is this true? - read so much, don't know which to believe!
Just so you can gauge your responses - I am not computer illiterate (father is a professional programmer - a little rubbed off), I prefer to tinker with Linux rather than windows but windows is on main PC, and I used to be very competent at hacking around the old widows mobile OS (utter junk system but easy to modify) - I am, however, utterly Android illiterate - AT THE MOMENT!
Thanks for you time - Ben

Noone is gonna read so much. Ask one by one is a better option...
Sent from my GT-N7100

Sorry for the long post but I want an answer to these specific questions:
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock?
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead?
How?
Will they work ok?
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting?

EmergencyMedic said:
Sorry for the long post but I want an answer to these specific questions:
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock?
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead?
How?
Will they work ok?
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock? YES
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead? It seems that External Storage is merged in Internal Storage So It will not be possible yet on Stock Roms. Maybe As soon as new development comes out we will c much more. Most of the Developers waiting for Samsung to release Source Code...
How? ^^^
Will they work ok?Previously on my Note 1 it works OK So I hope it will work on Note 2 also....
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting? I don't think so..Root is Required.
And Rooting is very easy. Or if you are afraid of doing rooting just flash a rooted JB rom using PCOdin or MobileOdin and you are good to go.

EmergencyMedic said:
Sorry for the long post but I want an answer to these specific questions:
Do the apps install only on the internal storage as stock?
If they do, can you EASILY install them on the external storage instead?
How?
Will they work ok?
And... Can this EASILY be done Without Rooting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android does a a great job in managing apps, so if you think u will outrun the space, I dis agree, as bigger apps get installed on external storage, (external SD) to save the space, and Without rooting there is option if you go to setting> application> move to SD, so You can install as many apps as you like.... >>>>> My advice come to the brighter side!! U will NOT regret!!

Thanks guys for your quick responses - but (forgive me if I'm being thick) they both seem to be saying opposite things to each other, one seems to be saying stock won't currently install apps on external SD without re-flashing or rooting, and the other saying, effectively, that they are installed on external SD kinda automatically, or can be moved with stock software. Obviously the latter, at the moment, would be preferential for me.
I AM definitely coming to android mainly because android has finally proved to be a stable (took me a little while to believe this thanks to brainwashing) and more advanced OS and it will be a GNII because ever since using iOS I've missed a stylus and big screen.......it's just WHEN, as when I come I will be staying and I need to be as sure as I can that my hardware suits MY needs - even if I have to wait (as I said in long 1st post - I've stayed with 3GS because I felt apple did not provide a significant hardware boost - I can wait a little longer lol)
Sorry for the persistence but I just need a uniformed, definite, answer
Thanks again for the prompt replies - Ben

dryspuri said:
Android does a a great job in managing apps, so if you think u will outrun the space, I dis agree, as bigger apps get installed on external storage, (external SD) to save the space, and Without rooting there is option if you go to setting> application> move to SD, so You can install as many apps as you like.... >>>>> My advice come to the brighter side!! U will NOT regret!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is just wrong!
Firstly, unlike the Note 1, where the internal storage was split to give separate partions for apps and 'external' data, in the Note 2 you have a single unified partition for both.
This means that the Note 2 doesn't have the "Move to SD" option, because all this did on the Note 1 was move the app from the app partition to the internal sdcard, and this isn't helpful on the Note 2 since it would essentially just be moving the app around within the same partition.
Neither the Note 1, not the Note 2 supports apps directly on the actual external SD card, though there are several ways and means to get around this if your device is rooted.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

Thank you Dave - that was the general impression I was getting from the (lengthy) research I have been doing and, to me, is important - most of my storage (on ios) is the physical app programs, not the save file data from them and I'm sure this will be the same on android (for me). Does seem a bit daft that this is the case (16GB really isn't much these days) but there must be a reason (slower access probably).
The main reason I don't want to root at the moment is that I need to get used to android (so that I know when I've broken it and, actually, if I'm happy with it - stock) and I don't want to invalidate my warranty. I know rooting is the way to go eventually - just not yet.
Guess I'll wait for bigger internal storage (rumoured to be 15th oct in UK) and keep an eye on the Play store to see if an app comes out to enable external SD app installation - when either occurs I'm coming to android ;0)
Thanks again

EmergencyMedic said:
The main reason I don't want to root at the moment is that I need to get used to android (so that I know when I've broken it and, actually, if I'm happy with it - stock) and I don't want to invalidate my warranty. I know rooting is the way to go eventually - just not yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind that rooting is not necessarily a process that easily "breaks" your device. Once a stable method of root is developed, it's not long before a quick one-click program is developed that does the work for you!
I'm not sure how iPhone jailbreaking works, but it sounds more intensive than just gaining root on an Android device. (Flashing ROMs/basebands on the other hand, is intensive work that can easily render your phone useless if done wrong. )

Thanks, yep iPhone jaibreaking is an utter nightmare (that's why I never did it) and messes up your syncing with iTunes - and that IS one of the main reasons for coming to android - I am aware that rooting is an easy process - it doesn't actually scare me that much BUT if it voids the warranty I might be a bit hesitant - I will do it Eventually but would rather not HAVE to do it just to make full use of the storage - I'd also like to keep over the air updates, for example, especially with the rapid progression of Android OS over the past few years.
It's killing me because for the first time in may years I'm actually excited about a new phone and a new (to me) OS - T-Mobile here is already listing the LTE for sale - that excites me too lol. BUT, as I keep my phones until another is leaps and bounds better, I'd rather wait a short while and get the most useful I can afford - a 16GB with full access to storage on the SD would be that phone but if its going to be some time before that is possible I might as well wait and get the bigger one (in 2 years when the contracts up apps will be even bigger and my music library will be pushing 50+ GB) I believe buying out of contracts early is a waste of money and I can't afford a sim free phone (read my wife won't let me spend £500+ on a phone).
One thing is for sure - I won't be getting another iPhone anytime soon

[Q] Re-partition Internal Memory?

I have done a general search on Google and found several articles relating to this subject, but when I searched XDA I didn't find anything conclusive or useful or even informative. The Samsung Galaxy S4 was supposed to be at least a 16GB phone. To me, that means 16GB of usable space to install apps. I knew there would be some bloatware, but when I got my SGS4, I was annoyed to see that the device memory total space was only 9.72 GB, and the bloatware was installed in that space! That left me with only a measly 8GB to install my apps. So where did the other 6.28 GB go? From what I read, it was used by the "system" and hidden "Samsung recovery partitions".
Well, I do not care about recovery partitions. I would rather trust Titanium Backup and my Nandroid backups and have more usable space than have a recovery partition I can't access. I am stingy with my storage, which is at a premium on mobile devices. I like to have control over every megabyte and I don't like the manufacturer deciding how my space is used. I already got an SD card for it, but I still want that missing space back.
So here is my question; how does one re-partition or re-size the partitions of the internal memory of the Samsung Galaxy S4? I know that linux has some amazing partition editors like gparted that can re-size partitions without destroying them, and Android is based on linux, so is there anything like an "aparted"?

I think in the system partition aside from the actual OS there's an odd 2-3 gigs of temp space to be utilizing during updates via Kiev etc. Since the size of TW roms are so big it makes sense in some weird way.
However anything I've read regarding repartioning is supposed to be pretty risky procedure. A lot of us that have gone to the Google Edition rom are also stuck with the original partitions even though GE rom nearly a gig smaller than TW rom. So especially wasted space for us.
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lazaro17 said:
I think in the system partition aside from the actual OS there's an odd 2-3 gigs of temp space to be utilizing during updates via Kiev etc. Since the size of TW roms are so big it makes sense in some weird way.
However anything I've read regarding repartioning is supposed to be pretty risky procedure. A lot of us that have gone to the Google Edition rom are also stuck with the original partitions even though GE rom nearly a gig smaller than TW rom. So especially wasted space for us.
Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, that's exactly what I am talking about. I don't plan to ever update my stock rom via Kiev, assuming I ever update it at all, since I flashed a modified stock kernel to get root. Where did you read about repartitioning being risky? I couldn't even find that much. Is it equally risky for all devices, or do the more modern devices have more options? I also flashed the Google Edition rom hoping to get the space back, but nope! It really sucks that a non-touchwiz, non-samsung rom would still allow a wasted partition.

Zaron DarkStar said:
See, that's exactly what I am talking about. I don't plan to ever update my stock rom via Kiev, assuming I ever update it at all, since I flashed a modified stock kernel to get root. Where did you read about repartitioning being risky? I couldn't even find that much. Is it equally risky for all devices, or do the more modern devices have more options? I also flashed the Google Edition rom hoping to get the space back, but nope! It really sucks that a non-touchwiz, non-samsung rom would still allow a wasted partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In order to partition that internal memory you have to wipe it. And that means everything. System, recovery, download mode, boot loader, everything.
The connection with Odin or adb at this point would be totally housed in RAM. It would need to maintain that connection in order to complete the task of adding the new partition, adding the download mode back, adding recovery, and finally the ROM itself.
If the phone lost its connection during that process or lost power or the update process got pushed out of ram for any reason the phone would be hard bricked as there would be no way to reestablish communication with it to restart the process. You couldn't power it on or boot it to anything. It would be a $600 paper weight.
Meanwhile the alternative option is to just go buy an $8 external 16gb SD card or a $20 external 32gb SD card. That carries no risk whatsoever and expands your phone's storage well beyond the original 9gb of usable space you started with.
Sent from your phone. You should be careful where you leave that thing.

Skipjacks said:
In order to partition that internal memory you have to wipe it. And that means everything. System, recovery, download mode, boot loader, everything.
The connection with Odin or adb at this point would be totally housed in RAM. It would need to maintain that connection in order to complete the task of adding the new partition, adding the download mode back, adding recovery, and finally the ROM itself.
If the phone lost its connection during that process or lost power or the update process got pushed out of ram for any reason the phone would be hard bricked as there would be no way to reestablish communication with it to restart the process. You couldn't power it on or boot it to anything. It would be a $600 paper weight.
Meanwhile the alternative option is to just go buy an $8 external 16gb SD card or a $20 external 32gb SD card. That carries no risk whatsoever and expands your phone's storage well beyond the original 9gb of usable space you started with.
Sent from your phone. You should be careful where you leave that thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! And yes I also hit the thanks button . I had no idea that partitioning the internal memory was THAT risky. I am surprised nobody has come up with a better way, like how you would boot from a CD to partition your computer. Maybe a way to boot from external SD or something? It also makes me curious; if the manufacturer started with blank internal memory, how did they write the initial recovery and ROM to it in the first place? What are they able to do that we can't do?

Zaron DarkStar said:
Thanks! And yes I also hit the thanks button . I had no idea that partitioning the internal memory was THAT risky. I am surprised nobody has come up with a better way, like how you would boot from a CD to partition your computer. Maybe a way to boot from external SD or something? It also makes me curious; if the manufacturer started with blank internal memory, how did they write the initial recovery and ROM to it in the first place? What are they able to do that we can't do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your computer has a bios that exists on a saparate chip from everything else. The bios is like a pre-boot that waits for you to hit the power button, then it looks for a hard drive with an OS to get going the rest of the way. If it doesn't find a hard drive it will look to a CD ROM drive that will take the next step.
The operating sysem resides on your hard drive. So you can wipe your hard drive and the bios will at least let the computer physically turn on.
On your cell phone all that stuff resides on the same internal memory. So if you wipe it clean, it doesn't even have something like a bios that can look for a secondary boot option on an SD Card.
Samsung probably programs the memory chips on a separate machine before they even put them on the mother board. Think of an old 8 bit Nintendo. Super Mario Bros. exists entirely on the game cartridge. It's pre programed to hold the game. You then take that game cartridge (which is essentially just a memory chip on a circuit board inside the plastic case) and insert it into the Nintendo in order to boot up the game. Without the game inserted the power button just blinks and the Nintendo doesn't know what to do. Same thing with your phone. Samsung programs the memory chip somewhere else, then puts the fully prgrammed chip onto the mother board and it boots up. (This is a VERY generic example. There are about 500 things that are different about how these two sysems boot. I am well aware of this. I jus used it as an example to help clarify the concept.)

Skipjacks said:
On your cell phone all that stuff resides on the same internal memory. So if you wipe it clean, it doesn't even have something like a bios that can look for a secondary boot option on an SD Card.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
Skipjacks said:
Samsung probably programs the memory chips on a separate machine before they even put them on the mother board.[/I]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what you are saying is that the process Samsung probably used can't be used after the chip has been placed in the phone without extreme risk? Got it.

Zaron DarkStar said:
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
So what you are saying is that the process Samsung probably used can't be used after the chip has been placed in the phone without extreme risk? Got it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You probably need to unsolder the chip from the board and use a chip programmer to write everything back to the chip.

macaumen said:
You probably need to unsolder the chip from the board and use a chip programmer to write everything back to the chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think I'll be attempting something like that. That would make me even more nervous than wiping the internal memory. I'm a GTAW welder, and I still don't think I would have steady enough hands to go messing with the physical chips inside my phone.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using xda app-developers app

One chip?
Anyway my other question still remains. Android software/hardware is all designed to run off of one internal chip that holds everything? Even on tablets? And nobody has attempted to break this mold?

You can actually adjust the partition details through what is called a pit file (partition information table)
There is a thread where someone was able to create the pit files flashable through Odin. While they are flashable, I have tried everything on my s3 to get it to work. I think there is some bootloader code which ignores unsigned or not genuine pit files. There is just something preventing them from taking effect even though it says it flashed successfully.
You should easily be able to take some blocks from system partition and add them to data without and risks.
Btw it's impossible to hard brick this and the s3. You would just need a jtag device to rewrite the bootloader back to the device. Some people have said that the USB jigs you see on eBay work. And for 5 bucks what the heck lol.
But generally speaking, playing with pit files and partitions can get costly.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

I'm still very interested in this. I intend to only use the Google Play ROM's, which are 500MB, rather than 2GB
Samsung said that the S4's system only uses 1GB more than the S3, yet consumes 2GB more in total :/

DON'T TRY THIS. OTHERWISE IT'LL BRICK YOUR DEVICE
There's a solution for S4 i9500, but apparently it was officially released by samsung. I don't believe samsung or t-mobile will do the same, but I hope so. Or if anything could be done from this to be adapted to m919 would be great.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2429309

Zaron DarkStar said:
Ugh that seems like a bad design choice. And all manufacturers are doing this? Nobody has managed to squeeze in a separate chip for the recovery, even on tablets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I strongly suspect this goes to how ARM Systems-on-a-Chip work. These devices don't expect to encounter any kind of hardware intermediary between the processor and the chips. That's what the drivers are for. These devices are designed for simple bootstrapping, and the best way to do that is to connect the CPU to a single internal store of flash memory. Also, no device manufacturer expects to need to repartition their internal flashes within the device's working life. The partition sizes were chosen very carefully so it isn't necessary. They trade in some leeway space to be able to "set it and forget it." In the end, they don't expect anyone (including themselves) to tinker with it after it's been all set up. Normal users won't be in a position to encounter the recovery system, and even skilled amateurs trying to fix something mildly serious would find the stock recovery system sufficient. If that doesn't work, it's probably going back to the manufacturer.

Still a bad design.
WhosAsking said:
Also, no device manufacturer expects to need to repartition their internal flashes within the device's working life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So when they advertise a device as having a certain amount of storage, yet the actual user controlled usable storage space is almost half that, they don't think people are going to have a problem with that and will want to get that storage space back, through re-partitioning if necessary?
WhosAsking said:
The partition sizes were chosen very carefully so it isn't necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The partition sizes weren't chosen by ME, the consumer, owner, and end-user of the device, so it is quite necessary I have control over the storage I paid for.
WhosAsking said:
They trade in some leeway space to be able to "set it and forget it."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean they trade so of MY hardware's capability for the current/future needs of whatever services they might decide to implement, even if I will never use said services.
WhosAsking said:
In the end, they don't expect anyone (including themselves) to tinker with it after it's been all set up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tinker with all my electronics to suit my needs. I change the partition structure of my computer occasionally when my storage allocation needs change enough that it becomes necessary.
WhosAsking said:
Normal users won't be in a position to encounter the recovery system, and even skilled amateurs trying to fix something mildly serious would find the stock recovery system sufficient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't about trying to fix a problem. This is about being able to control and use ALL of the storage I expected to have on a device I paid for.
It just sounds like you are making excuses for Samsung. Please don't. It is bad enough that we have to deal with bloatware, but for a manufacturer to reduce a device's functionality, knowing that it is risky/difficult to reverse, for the sake of their proprietary services that the user may not want is just unacceptable.
If I wanted a device where the manufacturer makes the decisions for me the I would buy an Apple. I choose Android for its openness and customizability, so I get annoyed when I see manufacturers deliberately reduce a device's customizability to make way for their proprietary services. I think manufacturers should respect the spirit of the platform they are making devices for, otherwise they are making devices for the wrong platform. More specifically, I think Samsung should respect the spirit of Android, and stop trying to shove their proprietary bloatware down our throats.

Zaron, let me put it another way. The sizes you hear advertised on TV and ads and so on are much like hard drive sizes and the "up to" internet speeds you also see; you're not expected to actually get every last bit that's advertised. The only way you'll fix that is to change advertising laws; good luck trying to get something like that through a legislature.
There's also the fact that those of us here do not represent the typical user of these phones. The average person wants to be able to just get their apps done and be done with it. Quite simply, you can't please everyone, so it's better to annoy a small number of diehard geeks than a larger number of less-technically-literate buyers. As for the "spirit of Android," I don't see any such thing. Android is what manufacturers make of it (like with Amazon). We're talking companies here; not bleeding hearts. For Samsung, Android just happens to be the non-Apple system best at hand. It's not like they're betting the farm on it, either; they're developing Tizen, too, which will be going into their Gear 2 line of smartwatches.

WhosAsking said:
Zaron, let me put it another way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok let's break this down since it sounds like once again you are making excuses.
WhosAsking said:
The sizes you hear advertised on TV and ads and so on are much like hard drive sizes and the "up to" internet speeds you also see; you're not expected to actually get every last bit that's advertised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have gotten nearly ALL of the storage space I paid for on EVERY hard drive I have ever bought. There is a miniscule loss for the formatting overhead and partition table, and maybe a couple hundred megabytes for the Windows recovery partition if I CHOOSE to have one. This is quite minor compared to the 500GB - 3TB of space my drives have. On the GS4, I got nearly half, HALF of the usable storage I thought I was buying. There is a huge difference between minor overhead cost and HALF. Also, most of the time I get exactly the amount of bandwidth I pay for as well, for both my home internet and mobile data. It is rare I get any slowdown. So don't give me this nonsense about not expecting to get what is advertised.
WhosAsking said:
The only way you'll fix that is to change advertising laws; good luck trying to get something like that through a legislature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't need to change any laws to vote with my wallet, which is the only thing Samsung should be concerned with: how customers vote with their money.
WhosAsking said:
There's also the fact that those of us here do not represent the typical user of these phones. The average person wants to be able to just get their apps done and be done with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Because everyone I know who has an Android got one for the ability to customize/tinker with it. But even assuming there is a larger user base I haven't seen that doesn't care as much about customizing, what if said "average people" want to install many apps on their phone? Maybe they want to try out one of the many relatively large Android games on the market. Even an "average" user of a mobile device can do simple math. If they install a few games that are a couple GB each and then run out of space, and then add up the total space they used and compare it to how much their device should have, they would notice they got cheated real quick. All they have to do is go into the app manager in the settings and look at the amount of space used/free to see they don't have as much space as they thought.
WhosAsking said:
Quite simply, you can't please everyone, so it's better to annoy a small number of diehard geeks than a larger number of less-technically-literate buyers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree that it is difficult to please everyone. However, who exactly are they pleasing by cutting the usable storage space in half? Answer: nobody but themselves, in order to exert control over their customers. That is all. I have not heard a single person say, "I am so happy with all of Samsung's built-in services, and I don't mind at all that I have only half the space listed on the box!"
WhosAsking said:
As for the "spirit of Android," I don't see any such thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I say spirit of Android, what I mean is the desire to make a useful device that puts the power of customization in the hands of the user. I mean a device that is the opposite of an Apple device. I mean a device that can be used independently of its creator company. I mean the ability to change the ROM, the launcher, the dialer, the SMS app, and allowing pretty much every other part of the device's software to be modular and customizable. I mean the ability to sideload apps, install other market apps, and not be tied down to one marketplace. I mean the ability to have a device that doesn't make you feel beholden to any entity. That is the spirit of Android. So when a company makes an Android device with features that deliberately move away from customization and towards proprietary dependence, aka dedicating almost half of the SGS4's internal storage for proprietary services, while advertising it as having the full 16GB, that pisses me off. If Android was a religion, it would be the equivalent of blasphemy. When I am in the market for a new device, a company gets my attention by having a more powerful device with more customization options. Also, nothing makes me switch manufacturers faster than when I feel like they are trying to lock me in to their economy.
Now, if you respond to me in the same manner as your last two posts, full of industry excuses and reasons why we shouldn't criticize our corporate overlords, then I will assume you are just a shill, and I will ignore you. I have better things to do than argue with a shill, so prove to me you aren't one.

You're right. It sucks. You should get the entire cell phone industry (valued at several hundred billion dollars) to change its' marketing systems.
Let me know how that works out for you.
The rest of us don't like it either, but we've moved on because we learned how to interpret the manufacturer's claims into what we can actually except to see. Now stop yelling at everyone on XDA who is just trying to explain it to you. We're not the ones who came up with these shadey marketing practices. And just because we understand the shadey marketing practices doesn't mean we support them.
You are preaching to the chior. We all agree with you.

Skipjacks said:
You're right. It sucks. You should get the entire cell phone industry (valued at several hundred billion dollars) to change its' marketing systems.
Let me know how that works out for you.
The rest of us don't like it either, but we've moved on because we learned how to interpret the manufacturer's claims into what we can actually except to see. Now stop yelling at everyone on XDA who is just trying to explain it to you. We're not the ones who came up with these shadey marketing practices. And just because we understand the shadey marketing practices doesn't mean we support them.
You are preaching to the chior. We all agree with you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You were helpful to me before, why do you sound so angry now? I wasn't yelling at "everyone". I was disagreeing with one person about the premise that no matter what we do, we should expect to get screwed in some way every time we buy a phone. I don't accept that. I don't even have a problem with people who do accept it, but I do have a problem when people explain it to me, and then sound like they are trying to get me to accept getting screwed. This thread started with me asking if there was a way to easily re-partition the internal memory of the SGS4, and when the answer was basically "no", the purpose of this thread was pretty much served. However, it went on to become a discussion about why things are the way they are, which inevitably led to the business practices of Samsung, at which point it started to feel like I was being told to just accept the situation, which got me riled up. Big corporations wouldn't be big without their customers, so I intend to stay a customer who cares. I won't give in to apathy or complacency, and I won't accept corporate control, even if I can't directly do anything about it. I appreciate the explanations, and I am sorry offended anyone.

[Q] STarting to HATE my GN4 :(

I had the Galaxy Note 4 since released and I really should have stayed on Jellybean. I hate not having full access to my ExtSDCard and while I have tried Foldermount and custom roms (using Alliance Rom Currently)I still can't figure this out. 30gigs or 64gigs isn't enough storage for me. I leaned toward the Android devices because of the external option. Honestly I hate the phone now. Had I known this was going to be the route Android was going to to take, I would have made other choices. I have searched for fixes all over the internet, youtube, XDA and I can not find anything that helped. If there is anyone with a SPRINT NOTE 4, running Lollipop that has been successful in getting the external sd cards to work, Please let me know. I am ready to make this phone a very expensive door stop!
I know some of you will bash me for not searching I HAVE.
I know some won't agree, remember this is my personal experience.

Blaqdymun said:
I had the Galaxy Note 4 since released and I really should have stayed on Jellybean. I hate not having full access to my ExtSDCard and while I have tried Foldermount and custom roms (using Alliance Rom Currently)I still can't figure this out. 30gigs or 64gigs isn't enough storage for me. I leaned toward the Android devices because of the external option. Honestly I hate the phone now. Had I known this was going to be the route Android was going to to take, I would have made other choices. I have searched for fixes all over the internet, youtube, XDA and I can not find anything that helped. If there is anyone with a SPRINT NOTE 4, running Lollipop that has been successful in getting the external sd cards to work, Please let me know. I am ready to make this phone a very expensive door stop!
I know some of you will bash me for not searching I HAVE.
I know some won't agree, remember this is my personal experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 64gb card n i haven't had any problems adding or removing files from it
So far so good
Sent from my SM-N910P using JellyBombed Tapatalk 2

GhostAssassin said:
I have 64gb card n i haven't had any problems adding or removing files from it
So far so good
Sent from my SM-N910P using JellyBombed Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what rom are you using? stock? custom?

What Rom are you using, custom, stock, rooted?

Blaqdymun said:
I had the Galaxy Note 4 since released and I really should have stayed on Jellybean. I hate not having full access to my ExtSDCard and while I have tried Foldermount and custom roms (using Alliance Rom Currently)I still can't figure this out. 30gigs or 64gigs isn't enough storage for me. I leaned toward the Android devices because of the external option. Honestly I hate the phone now. Had I known this was going to be the route Android was going to to take, I would have made other choices. I have searched for fixes all over the internet, youtube, XDA and I can not find anything that helped. If there is anyone with a SPRINT NOTE 4, running Lollipop that has been successful in getting the external sd cards to work, Please let me know. I am ready to make this phone a very expensive door stop!
I know some of you will bash me for not searching I HAVE.
I know some won't agree, remember this is my personal experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean by not having full access to the ExtSDCard? I can do w.e I want on my sd card with Root Explorer, and if you need access for Titanium Backup then try this app, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nextapp.sdfix&hl=en
hope it helps, cheers:fingers-crossed:

Blaqdymun said:
what rom are you using? stock? custom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on alliance afew days ago
Now I'm on the notorized rom
In both the external sdcard works great
Sent from my SM-N910P using JellyBombed Tapatalk 2

Blaqdymun said:
I had the Galaxy Note 4 since released and I really should have stayed on Jellybean. I hate not having full access to my ExtSDCard and while I have tried Foldermount and custom roms (using Alliance Rom Currently)I still can't figure this out. 30gigs or 64gigs isn't enough storage for me. I leaned toward the Android devices because of the external option. Honestly I hate the phone now. Had I known this was going to be the route Android was going to to take, I would have made other choices. I have searched for fixes all over the internet, youtube, XDA and I can not find anything that helped. If there is anyone with a SPRINT NOTE 4, running Lollipop that has been successful in getting the external sd cards to work, Please let me know. I am ready to make this phone a very expensive door stop!
I know some of you will bash me for not searching I HAVE.
I know some won't agree, remember this is my personal experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm yeah, where to start. First it came with KitKat. this phone now is way more amazing on alliance with emotion kernel than when I got this phone on launch day. I've had zero and I mean zero problems on a custom lollipop rom moving anything around from a 128gig sd, especially alliance which is amazing. I can't possibly leave alliance ever and go back to the horrible colors of lollipop. My phone craps all over every other phone unless I were to run into someone that has a rooted/romed/kernel note 4 that has done as much to it as I have.... Still probably craps on it, LOL. KitKat had the problems with access to sd but that was fixable with root, but u didn't have to have a custom rom if u didn't want to. Lollipop corrected the sd limits that KitKat screwed up. I use folder mount but probably not what ur looking for. I use it because I have a lot of big games and the internal sd goes pretty quick so folder mount will move and link the big data folder for that game to the external sd.
Either u have some kind of hardware issue like maybe a fake sd card or something is wrong with the phones hardware and need an exchange, or should just go back to an iPhone.

SD Card not working on lollipop.... it could be damaged!
ryanalan82 said:
Ummm yeah, where to start. First it came with KitKat. this phone now is way more amazing on alliance with emotion kernel than when I got this phone on launch day. I've had zero and I mean zero problems on a custom lollipop rom moving anything around from a 128gig sd, especially alliance which is amazing. I can't possibly leave alliance ever and go back to the horrible colors of lollipop. My phone craps all over every other phone unless I were to run into someone that has a rooted/romed/kernel note 4 that has done as much to it as I have.... Still probably craps on it, LOL. KitKat had the problems with access to sd but that was fixable with root, but u didn't have to have a custom rom if u didn't want to. Lollipop corrected the sd limits that KitKat screwed up. I use folder mount but probably not what ur looking for. I use it because I have a lot of big games and the internal sd goes pretty quick so folder mount will move and link the big data folder for that game to the external sd.
Either u have some kind of hardware issue like maybe a fake sd card or something is wrong with the phones hardware and need an exchange, or should just go back to an iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply, while I also had the note 3, I am probably getting the OS confused. So yes, you are correct. The 4 did come with KitKat. Jellybean was the last OS I did not have SD card R/W issues with. I too love the Alliance rom, its fabulous but I cannot understand why my SD card refuses to work. I reformatted it and tried it with several other Roms just as well. I do know its a SanDisk 64gig which appears to be original. I will purchase a new one and give that a try. Although, I would like to think I wouldn't purchase a fake SD card, at least not intentionally.
Follow-Up: (4:46am): SO I tried an old SD Card SanDisk 16gigs and Whella!!! I use FX File Explorer and enabled Write Access and was able to create a new folder without issues. It is not an ULTRA XC card like the 64gb card but at least I know that it isn't the phones hardware and I also checked to ensure the 64gb was an original and from the videos I have reviewed it appears to be. It could very well be damaged. I placed the non-working sd card in my pc and I received a message "There is a problem with this drive fix & repair to prevent data loss" or something to that effect. I tried to run the repair program and it didn't work. I have chalked this experience up to "a damaged SD card"; however, I was able to copy everything on it to a folder on my PC and will be transferring it to a new card. I am interested in 128gb as well, if you can offer the brand you are having so much success with, I'd appreciate it.
Signed,
Falling In Love Again

Blaqdymun said:
Thanks for the reply, while I also had the note 3, I am probably getting the OS confused. So yes, you are correct. The 4 did come with KitKat. Jellybean was the last OS I did not have SD card R/W issues with. I too love the Alliance rom, its fabulous but I cannot understand why my SD card refuses to work. I reformatted it and tried it with several other Roms just as well. I do know its a SanDisk 64gig which appears to be original. I will purchase a new one and give that a try. Although, I would like to think I wouldn't purchase a fake SD card, at least not intentionally.
Follow-Up: (4:46am): SO I tried an all SD Card SanDisk 16gigs and Whella!!! I use FX File Explorer and enabled Write Access and was able to create a new folder without issues. It is not an ULTRA XC card like the 64gb card but at least I know that it isn't the phones hardware and I also checked to ensure the 64gb was an original and from the videos I have reviewed it appears to be. It could very well be damaged. I placed the non-working sd card in my pc and I received a message "There is a problem with this drive fix & repair to prevent data loss" or something to that effect. I tried to run the repair program and it didn't work. I have chalked this experience up to "a damaged SD card"; however, I was able to copy everything on it to a folder on my PC and will be transferring it to a new card. I am interested in 128gb as well, if you can offer the brand you are having so much success with, I'd appreciate it.
Signed,
Falling In Love Again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad to here I figured out out. I have a 128 gig SanDisk with the highest r/w speed,. They made several versions so shop around.

I am stock Lollipop without root and X-plore file manager works perfect for me.

Able to switch cloud support to our own storage cloud when Nextbit's disappears?

This phone is on sale today for $120 at Amazon. At that price and the specs it seems like a really great deal until I find out the cloud support will only be around for 6 months or so. If it had microSD it would still be a no-brainer but I'm concerned what will happen when they stop supporting the phone. Will we be able to use the cloud backup function if we use our own storage such as Google Drive, OneDrive, etc.? If this is not currently a possibility is it something that is even feasible in a custom ROM?
I don't need a ton of storage for anything but apps. I'm not a big gamer, I just have many apps that I use rarely but when I do need them, it would be very inconvenient to reinstall and sign in and change settings, etc. One of the most annoying things about Android is even the apps that are movable still remain partially on my internal storage. I also have a Huawei Watch and the apps for those alone that must remain on the phone memory hog a ton. I'm currently using an Honor 5x with only 16gb onboard so this phone would still be an upgrade for that... I just wish they could have splurged on an SDcard slot and it would be on the way to my house already. I know, I know, everyone wants their crap in a "cloud" now. I actually prefer local storage, I hate to be reliant on a data connection or someone else's servers but I still like the idea of this phone. Too bad not enough other people did to keep it from flopping. I feel really bad for the Kickstarter backers that paid $300-400.
Alternatively, does anyone know of any Android apps or custom ROMs even that perform a similar function where I can backup and restore apps from either a server, or even better my own SD card, without losing settings? I know there are a lot of apps that do this with the apks, but I want one that functions more like this phone does it. I don't care if I have to do it manually instead of it being automated in the background, as long as they are restored with settings intact. It seems like something that could be done but I have zero experience in Android Development. I'm guessing they locked out the ability to do this somehow or it would be done already. I'm not a huge fan of Android but even less of iOS or anything Apple which leaves little other choices these days. For the record, I still think old school Windows Mobile was the best phone OS ever until they bastardized it into Windows Phone.

AlternaGirl said:
This phone is on sale today for $120 at Amazon. At that price and the specs it seems like a really great deal until I find out the cloud support will only be around for 6 months or so. If it had microSD it would still be a no-brainer but I'm concerned what will happen when they stop supporting the phone. Will we be able to use the cloud backup function if we use our own storage such as Google Drive, OneDrive, etc.? If this is not currently a possibility is it something that is even feasible in a custom ROM?
I don't need a ton of storage for anything but apps. I'm not a big gamer, I just have many apps that I use rarely but when I do need them, it would be very inconvenient to reinstall and sign in and change settings, etc. One of the most annoying things about Android is even the apps that are movable still remain partially on my internal storage. I also have a Huawei Watch and the apps for those alone that must remain on the phone memory hog a ton. I'm currently using an Honor 5x with only 16gb onboard so this phone would still be an upgrade for that... I just wish they could have splurged on an SDcard slot and it would be on the way to my house already. I know, I know, everyone wants their crap in a "cloud" now. I actually prefer local storage, I hate to be reliant on a data connection or someone else's servers but I still like the idea of this phone. Too bad not enough other people did to keep it from flopping. I feel really bad for the Kickstarter backers that paid $300-400.
Alternatively, does anyone know of any Android apps or custom ROMs even that perform a similar function where I can backup and restore apps from either a server, or even better my own SD card, without losing settings? I know there are a lot of apps that do this with the apks, but I want one that functions more like this phone does it. I don't care if I have to do it manually instead of it being automated in the background, as long as they are restored with settings intact. It seems like something that could be done but I have zero experience in Android Development. I'm guessing they locked out the ability to do this somehow or it would be done already. I'm not a huge fan of Android but even less of iOS or anything Apple which leaves little other choices these days. For the record, I still think old school Windows Mobile was the best phone OS ever until they bastardized it into Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're willing to root the phone, there are some options for using an app like Titanium Backup to save and restore your app data in conjunction with a separate cloud service like Google Drive or Dropbox for storing your backups. Titanium Backup even has some options for integrating your cloud service of choice and uploading automatically, but again this does require rooting.
Also, keep in mind that hardware limitations of the Robin prevent it from using USB host or USB On-The-Go adapters, which is one of the first things people wonder about when there's no SD card
However, it's still a good phone for such a low price.

It was actually $118 plus I get 5% back with the Amazon card so I bought one each in Mint and Midnight. Whichever one I don't keep, I'll give to my Mom. She's on a crap Windows Phone that is starting to have hardware issues. I think it will be perfect for her, if not way more than she needs. I have 30 days to decide since Amazon is great with returns. I shop with them so much I could probably buy a new phone and return it every month but I wouldn't do that. I did the slow shipping so hopefully Prime Day will come before my 30 days are up in case there's a better deal. I got my Honor 5x for $120 last Prime Day and I think I could probably sell it used a year later for $100 after keeping it in perfect condition. I do worry about the Robin holding any value but I never actually end up selling my old phones anyway, I have quite the historical collection. The lack of warranty concerns me but I think if I have any real issues I can get my money back from Amazon since I spend most of my money there. I think they sold a lot of Robins with that deal, most of the cases sold out by the end of the day. It's still only $130 so they must have quite a large supply of them. I'd be curious to know how many phones were manufactured and how many have sold but I doubt they make that public information.
Anyway thanks for all the info. I'll be back next week when I get it to get all the rooting info. I have to roll back my Huawei watch too, it didn't look like a quick process so I've been avoiding it but I hate 2.0... so I'll just have to devote one night to nerding out on XDA. It's been awhile.

Damn it, ****, f*ck donkey punch.. I refused REFUSED to buy a phone without an SD card, but just bought the robin on sale because I figured I could just use the cloud and keep my backup images on my USB otg drive. It didn't even occur to me that it doesn't support otg.. Wtf. I haven't even opened the box yet..
No wonder this phone flopped. No SD card, so no apps to SD, or an option to switch between cloud and SD card backup. Crappy battery. No host mode.. And for (what was) $400? Damn it maaan! I've never done any development on a phone without a card. Do you just push and pull your backups between a pc? What if you, ugh, nvm.. I'm about to find out I guess..
I'm gonna be PISSED if I see one of the phones I was gonna buy but didn't because I saw this with decent specs for $118
cjpicci said:
If you're willing to root the phone, there are some options for using an app like Titanium Backup to save and restore your app data in conjunction with a separate cloud service like Google Drive or Dropbox for storing your backups. Titanium Backup even has some options for integrating your cloud service of choice and uploading automatically, but again this does require rooting.
Also, keep in mind that hardware limitations of the Robin prevent it from using USB host or USB On-The-Go adapters, which is one of the first things people wonder about when there's no SD card
However, it's still a good phone for such a low price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

soulife said:
Damn it, ****, f*ck donkey punch.. I refused REFUSED to buy a phone without an SD card, but just bought the robin on sale because I figured I could just use the cloud and keep my backup images on my USB otg drive. It didn't even occur to me that it doesn't support otg.. Wtf. I haven't even opened the box yet..
No wonder this phone flopped. No SD card, so no apps to SD, or an option to switch between cloud and SD card backup. Crappy battery. No host mode.. And for (what was) $400? Damn it maaan! I've never done any development on a phone without a card. Do you just push and pull your backups between a pc? What if you, ugh, nvm.. I'm about to find out I guess..
I'm gonna be PISSED if I see one of the phones I was gonna buy but didn't because I saw this with decent specs for $118
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the twrp adb backup function now. It works really well.