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Has anyone here owned a Razr AND a Nexus? I have a razr now, but I'm shopping around for a Nexus for something different.
Thoughts on one vs the other, or just opinions on the Nexus in general?
Sent from my DROID RAZR using XDA
I had a RAZR. Loved it. Missed the ics though. I have a nexus now. Kind this phone too. But I do find myself missing that moto. Gets way better signal. I wish I had both phones. Nexus to play with. RAZR for my every day phone.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
nicholasjrice said:
I had a RAZR. Loved it. Missed the ics though. I have a nexus now. Kind this phone too. But I do find myself missing that moto. Gets way better signal. I wish I had both phones. Nexus to play with. RAZR for my every day phone.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As pointed out by others, Verizon has tweaked the dbm reporting services on the Razr to indicate more signal than it actually is. The Nexus displays signal strength accurately, while the Razr bumps it up a bit.
Google around for sources, there are plenty of sources on this.
bilalakhtar said:
As pointed out by others, Verizon has tweaked the dbm reporting services on the Razr to indicate more signal than it actually is. The Nexus displays signal strength accurately, while the Razr bumps it up a bit.
Google around for sources, there are plenty of sources on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly right.
The gnex reports signal a lot more accurately.
I own the maxx and just picked up the nexus for my wife. I'm running an ics leak on the maxx and she is getting by on 402.
The nexus is a great device and as I use my maxx it is also a great device. Best thing about the nexus is there is never a moment of "oh crap if I flash that I maybe stuck!" W moto and the locked boot loader I am in that "oh crap" gray area. Being stuck on 403 isn't bad for now but it is what it is.
What exactly ate you looking to know about the difference between the 2
The Galaxy Nexus signal bar shows data signal, all other non-AOSP phones show voice signal.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
This is true, the bars vary from phone to phone. But the Galaxy Nexus radios were known to be worse than the 2nd gen LTE devices (RAZR, Rezound, even the Spectrum). If you'd look at the raw dBm the Nexus would routinely measure lower.
I'm in the market for a phone soon, what have the IMM76k radios done for this? Has anyone measured dBm of those radios in particular vs one of those other phones?
About 2 weeks ago I posted my impressions of the Razr M (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1900089). I loved the phone, but unfortunately I was getting delays of anywhere from 3-20 minutes on receiving push notifications of Gmail and Gtalk messages while connected to wifi. I tried 2 different phones and 3 different wifi networks, and all exhibited the same delays. I loved the form factor of the phone so much though, that I was not willing to give up. So I decided to try a Razr i. I'm not going to post a full review of the Razr i because it is remarkably similar to the M. However, given that the Razr i is running a new Intel processor, I wanted to test a few things. Obviously performance would be affected by the new processor, and reviews have covered that pretty well. But what the reviews haven't covered so well is what effect, if any, does the Intel chip have on wifi, GPS, and cell signal. I'm going to cover that and a few other things here.
Wifi
Overall, I have to give a slight edge to the M's wifi. Both are perfectly fine and I have no complaints, but--at least on my router--the M gets slightly higher speeds. Below I've posted screenshots of wifi signal strength on the Razr i (left) and Razr M (right).
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The Razr i might have a slightly stronger wifi signal, but as shown in the pictures below, the M actually gets slightly higher throughput. Razr i (left), Razr M (right).
The one other comment I have is that both the Razr i and the M exhibit wifi "death grip." I might be getting a signal of -60 dBm with either phone sitting on my table, but as soon as I picked it up, it would drop to -70 or even -80 dBm. I've read reports on other forums of people completely losing their wifi signal when they pick up their Razr M. So I think there's definitely a death grip issue. Be careful how you hold your phone!
GPS
The M has a better GPS. I think the M has GLONASS support, whereas the Razr i does not. Both the M and the Razr i pick up a GPS lock extremely quickly (within 2 or 3 seconds, if not faster). But the M consistently sees more satellites, and it consistently gets a more accurate lock. If the Razr i was locked to 5 meters, the M would usually be locked to 3 meters. If the Razr i was at 10 meters, the M would usually be at 5 or 6 meters. So yeah, both are fine, but the M gets a higher score here due to GLONASS. See screenshots below. Razr i (left), Razr M (right).
Cell Signal
I could not get my M to connect to AT&T, so I compared the Razr i's HSPA signal to that of a Galaxy Nexus. My conclusion is that the Razr i has a good HSPA radio. It's signal strength measured in dBm was always equal to or slightly better than that of the Galaxy Nexus. And, as the screenshots below show, speed tests between the two were extremely similar. And yes, these speeds are typical of AT&T in the metro DC area. Overall, I'm satisfied with the Razr i's HSPA radio. Again, Razr i (left), Galaxy Nexus (right).
Camera
The Razr i's camera is slightly better than the Razr M's camera. It's faster, and it has a dedicated camera button. I think the pictures are also slightly better. Below I've attached a couple. All were taken in low-light environments that would be a challenge for any phone's camera. I've only posted a couple of representative samples, but I think they demonstrate that, although similar, the Razr i takes slightly better phones in low light. Razr i (left), Razr M (right).
Battery Life
I can't fully comment on this yet, but both have great battery life. On the M I was getting about 6 hours of screen on time combined with 30 hours of standby (mostly on wifi. LTE would obviously reduce that.). I haven't had the Razr i long enough to test. However, one thing I will note is that the Razr M got lots of random wakelocks. The Razr i seems to have fewer random wakelocks. As you can see in the screenshots below, the Razr i (left) is usually not awake unless the screen is on. The Razr M (right) seems to have lots of tiny wakelocks even when the screen is off.
I'm not sure if those wakelocks actually have any practical ramifications (because the battery life on the M is quite good), but I prefer the way the Razr i seems to behave when the screen is off. And yes, both phones are setup identically -- same accounts syncing, same widgets, same apps installed. So the wakelocks cannot be attributed to different setups.
A couple of other points worth noting. First, the Razr M would lose 5-6% battery overnight. Last night was the only night I've had the Razr i, but it only lost 3%. The Verge also reported that the Razr i gets much better standby battery time than does the Razr M, which is consistent with my initial impressions, but it's too early for me to tell. The Razr i probably gets a slight nod in the battery life department, but probably not by enough to make it a factor in anybody's purchasing decision.
10/6/12 noon update: I've run the Razr i through a full charge cycle, and here are the results:
For comparison, here's a result from the Razr M:
.
That had a screen on time of exactly 6 hours. (I can't attach any more pictures to this post -- I've hit the limit of 20 attachments).
I will also note that the RAZR i had GPS on and in use for 1 hour 45 minutes in its battery cycle. The M had no GPS use. But the i still beat the M pretty handily. Overall, based on these very preliminary results, I'd say it appears the i will get about 10-20% more battery life than the M... maybe even more.
Screen
I believe the screens use exactly the same panel, so you'd expect them to be about the same. And they are. To my eyes they look nearly identical. The Razr M might be a tiny bit brighter at a given setting, but for the most part, they look the same to me. I'm no videophile, but I think most people would agree.
Other thoughts
In day to day use, the phones pretty much feel exactly the same. Speed wise, they are indistinguishable to me. I do not play games, and I know that the Razr M benchmarks higher for games than does the Razr i, but for my day to day use (browsing, messaging, emails, maps, navigation, etc.) there's no noticeable performance difference at all.
Conclusion
As you would expect, these phones are extremely similar. It's hard to really give an edge to either. If you have the option to get either device, I would say it comes down to whether you want LTE or not. That's obviously the single biggest difference between the two. Although I was concerned that the Razr i, with its new Intel processor, might have issues with wifi, GPS, signal strength, etc., that does not appear to be the case at all. As far as I can tell, it performs just as well in those areas as do the more established SoCs like the Snapdragon S4.
If any of my thoughts change or develop as I continue to use the Razr i over the next few days, I'll update this post. For the time being though, I'm planning to return the M and keep the Razr i. Not because of any performance differences, but because for me, the Razr M had delayed push notifications on wifi, and the Razr i does not. After my first 24 hours with the Razr i, I have no complaints about the phone. But of course, complaints usually take longer than 24 hours to develop
Nice review! Can you do 720/1080p MKV/DivX play test? I'm interested how well can Razr i handle them (with MX Video Player or stock player). The quick one will do...
Are you with AT&T AND Verizon?
Also, the Galaxy Nexus is "only" capable of HSPA+21, not HSPA+42 (maybe 42 is just a Tmobile thing?). So I wonder how the Razr I would do on a network that can do 42? Again, I simply am not familiar enough with AT&T's network any more... maybe it can do 42.
Simplestas said:
Nice review! Can you do 720/1080p MKV/DivX play test? I'm interested how well can Razr i handle them (with MX Video Player or stock player). The quick one will do...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you give me a link to a video file to download? If so I'll happily test.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
jntdroid said:
Are you with AT&T AND Verizon?
Also, the Galaxy Nexus is "only" capable of HSPA+21, not HSPA+42 (maybe 42 is just a Tmobile thing?). So I wonder how the Razr I would do on a network that can do 42? Again, I simply am not familiar enough with AT&T's network any more... maybe it can do 42.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had AT&T for awhile and signed up for Verizon just for the Razr M. Since the i doesn't have the delayed notification problems that the M had for me, I'll probably return the M, cancel Verizon, and stick with AT&T.
AT&T's top network speed is 21mbps. So 42 vs 21 shouldn't matter on AT&T. I think the i also only supports 21mbps (but could be wrong) so I don't think you'd see any boost on a 42 mbps network. Also I do not think the i supports T-Mobile's HSPA bands, so I don't think you'd get anything except 2g on T-Mobile.
I think jonmorris posted a screenshot showing a speed test of 12 mbps on his i, but that's the highest I've seen.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
phositadc said:
I've had AT&T for awhile and signed up for Verizon just for the Razr M. Since the i doesn't have the delayed notification problems that the M had for me, I'll probably return the M, cancel Verizon, and stick with AT&T.
AT&T's top network speed is 21mbps. So 42 vs 21 shouldn't matter on AT&T. I think the i also only supports 21mbps (but could be wrong) so I don't think you'd see any boost on a 42 mbps network. Also I do not think the i supports T-Mobile's HSPA bands, so I don't think you'd get anything except 2g on T-Mobile.
I think jonmorris posted a screenshot showing a speed test of 12 mbps on his i, but that's the highest I've seen.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
T-Mobile USA if your 1900 Mhz refarm has hit your area you should be getting at least HSDPA, maybe HSPA+ depends on area I think.
Check here if you are near the areas:
http://www.airportal.de/
mattlgroff said:
T-Mobile USA if your 1900 Mhz refarm has hit your area you should be getting at least HSDPA, maybe HSPA+ depends on area I think.
Check here if you are near the areas:
http://www.airportal.de/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for that link - been trying to find a good way to track that. Tmo has some great value plans.
Great review. From everything I've read, it sounds like you and I agree on the main difference point...LTE. I really don't care much about LTE, and so far, there haven't been any models of the M released that will support the flavor of LTE that T-Mobile will release next year anyway, so I'm really leaning toward the i at this point.
That refarm cannot happen fast enough.
jntdroid said:
Thanks for that link - been trying to find a good way to track that. Tmo has some great value plans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah T-Mobile has some amazing plans. I tested the $30/month prepaid plan with an HTC One S here in the D.C. area and it got speeds of 15-20 mbps. It was literally as fast as AT&T or Verizon LTE. Problem was, 2 or 3 times per week I'd be somewhere getting either no signal at all or only 2g, where my wife would be getting a solid 3g signal on AT&T. Decided I couldn't tolerate the poor coverage so I did not reload for a second month, but the service was awesome--and amazingly cheap--where I got a solid HSPA signal. If only AT&T had a comparable plan...!
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
freak4dell said:
Great review. From everything I've read, it sounds like you and I agree on the main difference point...LTE. I really don't care much about LTE, and so far, there haven't been any models of the M released that will support the flavor of LTE that T-Mobile will release next year anyway, so I'm really leaning toward the i at this point.
That refarm cannot happen fast enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, and yep I agree LTE is over hyped. I never do anything on my phone where I need more than the 3-5 mbps I get on HSPA. Heck, 1 mbps is more than enough for most of what I do! I'd rather have slower speeds and better battery life than LTE, personally.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
phositadc said:
Thanks, and yep I agree LTE is over hyped. I never do anything on my phone where I need more than the 3-5 mbps I get on HSPA. Heck, 1 mbps is more than enough for most of what I do! I'd rather have slower speeds and better battery life than LTE, personally.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
phositadc have you rooted yet? I rooted mine but haven't made any mods yet, waiting until kernel source to make custom reovery.
Also, can you confirm your System Version? Mine is 81.5.31002.XT890.Retail.en.GB.
mattlgroff said:
phositadc have you rooted yet? I rooted mine but haven't made any mods yet, waiting until kernel source to make custom reovery.
Also, can you confirm your System Version? Mine is 81.5.31002.XT890.Retail.en.GB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope I'm not a dev. Could you post a guide? I already know how to install the sdk and use fastboot commands so I just need specific instructions and files for the Razr i. Although maybe I should wait for a custom recovery so I can make a nandroid first.
See attached image for system version.
Random question for you. Is your dedicated camera button flush with the body of the phone, or does it stick up/protrude from the phone's frame at all? Mine is flush.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
I think I read somewhere that they made it flush in order to prevent accidental presses. I know I'd probably easily get it confused with the power button, since I end up putting my phone upside down in my pocket half the time.
freak4dell said:
I think I read somewhere that they made it flush in order to prevent accidental presses. I know I'd probably easily get it confused with the power button, since I end up putting my phone upside down in my pocket half the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you'd mistake them. The power button does protrude a bit so it's easy to tell which is which.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
phositadc said:
I don't think you'd mistake them. The power button does protrude a bit so it's easy to tell which is which.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, yeah. I just meant that if they both protruded, I'd probably get them confused.
Another nice thing about the camera button being flush is that the M cases all fit
:laugh:
dew.man said:
Another nice thing about the camera button being flush is that the M cases all fit
:laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Have any of the major case manufacturers put a case out yet? Or are Verizon and cheap eBay cases the only options still?
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
phositadc said:
Nope I'm not a dev. Could you post a guide? I already know how to install the sdk and use fastboot commands so I just need specific instructions and files for the Razr i. Although maybe I should wait for a custom recovery so I can make a nandroid first.
See attached image for system version.
Random question for you. Is your dedicated camera button flush with the body of the phone, or does it stick up/protrude from the phone's frame at all? Mine is flush.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is flush as well.
I got a guide already up
http://www.droidrzr.com/index.php/topic/4716-how-to-root-your-razr-i/
mattlgroff said:
Mine is flush as well.
I got a guide already up
http://www.droidrzr.com/index.php/topic/4716-how-to-root-your-razr-i/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice I'll check that out soon.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
phositadc said:
Thanks, and yep I agree LTE is over hyped. I never do anything on my phone where I need more than the 3-5 mbps I get on HSPA. Heck, 1 mbps is more than enough for most of what I do! I'd rather have slower speeds and better battery life than LTE, personally.
-Sent from my Razr i on AT&T.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you do turn off LTE because whenever I seem to do that battery life is the same whether it's on or off?
Sent from my XT907 using xda premium
Those who have experience regarding the technical side of things, what do you think?
I would say for the most part no. The memory issues were fixed as its already been seen and documented(proof) that memory is dramatically faster in new device. Plus this doesn't suffer from dreaded screen lifting issues like first generation as the glass screen is actually beveled into the frame. The speakers on new N7 blow away the old one. As the old ones were quick to blow if volume too loud. An all around improvement over last generation. Faster CPU, GPU, increased screen resolution, etc...
Plus the colors are a lot better. No more worrying about nvidia prism technology messing up or washing out colors.
This is the device to get. For the specs, and xda support, it can't be beat. Best bang for buck.
Yea there aren't any big issues outside of 4.3 app incompatibility. Most of the problems are flashing accidents. Pretty happy with mine. I can't find any problems with it.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
the grounding problem seems to be back though. A lot of people are reporting dead areas and cross axis touches going crazy but if the device is plugged in or your hand is touching the back the issue does go away.
None that so far I've noticed, though I do admit not owning the previous Nexus, thanks to all the reviews out here on xda. There is dust under the upper left corner on mine, but I'm okay with that, Speeds are ore than ok in every aspect.
You also need to remember that even though there seemed to be a massive amount of people with N1 issues they only make up a small amount of tablets actually sold. In other words, people usually post because they're pissed not because they aren't.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
The memory issues are the only one I'm worried about, TBH. I really don't want the tablet being rendered unsable in less than a year, as has happened with loads of Nexus 7 2012 users.
On another note, does anyone know what issues the manufacturer warranty cover? Hypothetically, would the above situation be enough cause for sending one in?
clockmehigh said:
The memory issues are the only one I'm worried about, TBH. I really don't want the tablet being rendered unsable in less than a year, as has happened with loads of Nexus 7 2012 users.
On another note, does anyone know what issues the manufacturer warranty cover? Hypothetically, would the above situation be enough cause for sending one in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With Android 4.3 Google introduced fstrim. This is probably one of the best things they could have done for any device really. To keep it short, basically as you install apps, load up your device with files, etc., over time the memory will become deoptimized for lack of a better word. Fstrim assists in preventing this. That is a very lose and general explanation. Fstrim has a set of parameters that need to be met in order for it to be activated and it should be activated automatically when those parameters are met. Sometimes that won't happen and you may start to notice your device slow down, for example apps opening slower from one day to the next, laggy scrolling, etc. Qht you can do if you notice this is go to the playstore and get an app called lagfix. It allows you to manually run fatrim. In my experience I have found running one or twice a week really does wonders for keeping the memory optimized and lag free. My one x has fsteim as well, being a tegra device it always had. I've had it for a little over a year and have been using that app the whole time and it still runs like new. I've found lagfix has the same effect on the n7. So I would say at least in regards to the longevity of the memory, as in the memory becoming bogged down over time, because Google introduced fstrim with 4.3, there is virtually no chance of that.
Hey,
I'm thinking of trading my Nexus 7 2012 for a 2013 model! I've considered a LG G Pad instead but despite hankering for a larger screen, I will definitely miss stock Android, especially with KitKat round the corner. I've had a look around and have a couple of questions if I may;
Issues - Seems like a lot touch screen / reboot issues, are the newer models suffering also? I will purchase from Currys / PC World and I have no problems with returning a dodgy device (within 21 days it from the returns policy).
WIFI - My old Nexus isn't great with streaming content from my media server. It refuses to connect any higher than 65Mbps (oveer 2.4Ghz) I have a dual band router and I'm hoping that the new Nexus 7 will show an improvement over 5Ghz. Has anyone noticed an improvement?
Many Thanks!
Danny
In a word, no. And 5Ghz will rarely be better than 2.4 unless there is a lot of 2.4 traffic around you. The signal is not as good at penetrating walls as 2.4. I have both Nexus 7's and a Nexus 4 and my experience is that all Nexus devices have flaky wifi. I rarely get a connection better than 54, even when sitting next to my MacBook which connects at 145.
As for the touchscreen, the only issue I have experienced is that it occasionally thinks I have long tapped when I haven't. Mostly when typing. Don't now if it is software or hardware, but it doesn't happen enough to be an issue.
TLDR:
--------
Samsung is crippling the radios and audio in the name of "safety" and "protecting the end user". Sending mine back to Samsung.
I've seen many posts on here about signal issues, both WiFi and Cell. This post will delve into some specifics. And sorry in advance that this is a long read.
Background
-----------------
Firstly, some background: I bought my first Samsung and first Note, the Note 2 and thoroughly loved the device. I've had every Note except the Note 1, Note 4 (used the Google Nexus 6 which I still have) and the Note 9 (used a OnePlus 7 Pro, which I still have). I absolutely love the Note series with the large beautiful screen, excellent cameras and of course the Pen.
So after using my Note 8 for a year and a half, I decided to try something different than Samsung because I was tired of the poor cell signal and WiFi signal. I decided to get a OnePlus 7 Pro since that company and phone has been so hyped. Well, the hype is definitely real. The phone is super-fast with little to no lag.
What I don't like or care for the most about the 7 Pro is the ugly rounded corners (besides the mediocre camera). I've always loved the square(er) corners of the Note. And when I saw the Note 10+ in a store recently and touched it, I had to have one. I got it in 3 days and wow what a sight to behold! The screen is just absolutely heavenly.
Cell Signal
----------------
I noticed immediately while driving around with the Note 10+, my music was constantly buffering. I thought it had to do with some kind of battery optimization for the app as to why music would stop playing and keep buffering. But I had already taken care of that in the settings.
Then when I took my Note to work is when it was really noticeable. I work on the second floor offices at my job. My OnePlus has excellent cell signal. Almost always 2-3 bars (and when I'm outside, 4 full bars as the tower is nearby apparently) and easily able to stream music without issue. My Note? Nothing! For at least half the day every day, I had zero signal sitting at my desk in the same spot as I do with my OnePlus 7 Pro. The Note would just say (Emergency Calls Only - No Signal). That was infuriating. Especially with a tower nearby, and my other phone has no signal issues.
WiFI Signal
-----------------
The second place I notice signal issues is with WiFi. I keep my WiFi strength turned down to keep the RF exposure low, and to keep from broadcasting my WiFi across the whole neighborhood. With my OnePlus 7 Pro, I get 2-3 bars of WiFi in my garage and the WiFi takes about 10-seconds to connect. With the Note 10+, it literally takes minutes to connect to my WiFi in the garage, barely getting 1-bar, once in a while jumping up to 2 bars then back to 1. And I realize that "number of bars don't matter", but they actually do. It's just a cop-out, and proven that they do have some significance.
Comparison
-----------------
Now I want to make something clear for those who don't know. Both the OnePlus 7 Pro and the Note 10+ use the same exact Snapdragon 855 SoC. As you'll see in the image HERE, the Snapdragon SoC has (among other things) the Cell radio and the BT/WiFi radios all built into the chip. And if one would look at the spec sheets for the 855 and earlier Qualcomm chips, you'd see that the radios get more powerful year after year.
I was blown away going from the garbage radios on the Note 8 to the amazing radios on the OnePlus 7 Pro. Absolutely never any cell or WiFi issues, ever. I figured that since the radios on the Qualcomm chips get more powerful every year, that the Note 10+ would be a giant step up from the radios on the Note 8. Boy was I wrong.
Samsung Crippling the Radios
--------------------------------------------
That brings me to Samsung deliberately crippling these devices. The FCC has specific regulations regarding exposure to RF radiation from phones. So Samsung is turning down the power of the Cell and WiFi radios so much to keep well below the guidelines and the RF radiation lower. But this is also crippling the device. It's keeping the device from doing it's number one job: being a phone!
Samsung Crippling the Audio
------------------------------------------
Samsung has also chosen to cripple listening to music also. Just even touching the EQ one tick above the -0- line and the volume is literally cut in half. Good luck trying to listen to headphones with any kind of volume. If you go just one tick below the -0- line, then the volume gets cut about a quarter. So half of the half. Samsung does this to "protect your hearing" so that you don't listen to music too loudly.
My OnePlus 7 is not like that with the same EQ and same Dolby Atmos. The volume barely wavers at all while adjusting the EQ, and the sound is loud and it actually sounds significantly better than my Note 10.
Conclusion
----------------
I have two devices with virtually identical hardware. One works as it should with excellent Cell and WiFi signal and great EQ sound, while the other is being crippled to protect the user from too much RF radiation or too loud of sound.
Samsung has become like Apple: restricting or constricting how you use your devices. Now if you live in a large city where you are surrounded by cell towers and WiFi everywhere, then you'll likely not notice much of the cell signal or WiFi issue. Those of us who live in smaller cities or towns where the coverage is more sparse, we need that extra radio power that Qualcomm already provides so that our devices do what they are first and foremost intended to do: be a working phone.
I am very upset and disappointed to see Samsung has crippled these devices all in the name of "protecting the end user". So as much as I would love to have that gorgeous screen with me all the time, I'm going to have to settle for my 7 Pro: a device that actually works and isn't being crippled. That also teaches me to never buy a Samsung device again for the foreseeable future, if ever again.
I'd love to see a class-action lawsuit against Samsung for crippling their devices. These things are the most expensive Android devices on the planet. They should not have anything crippled on them for that price.
Well, that may be your experience, I travel a lot by car and, only in some really isolated areas is where I loose signal, you see, It is very different for everyone, I use cellphones since 1990, and I have seen a lot
I've had several brands of phones over the years.. recently every Samsung device I have bought (galaxy s8+, s9+, note 10+) only had signal issues due to insufficient carrier coverage.
None of the phones had issues of signal crippling. I have had Motorola, Nokia, iPhone, Samsung devices and outside of a phone having manufacturer defect (or bad antenna placement) they all worked the same signal and performance wise. Only the carrier i was using and how well they covered my area was what impacted signal quality.
scottusa2008 said:
I've had several brands of phones over the years.. recently every Samsung device I have bought (galaxy s8+, s9+, note 10+) only had signal issues due to insufficient carrier coverage.
None of the phones had issues of signal crippling. I have had Motorola, Nokia, iPhone, Samsung devices and outside of a phone having manufacturer defect (or bad antenna placement) they all worked the same signal and performance wise. Only the carrier i was using and how well they covered my area was what impacted signal quality.
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Click to collapse
Exactly, carrier coverage/quality is what almost always determine how well you can use a device, just in some few cases, hadware or software, underperform or are sub-par
I completely agree with this, that's why root was so important to fix things.
Samsung and apple are basically the same in controlling their hardware and software, one just gets more flak for it and I don't see Samsung changing because people don't have other devices, they buy only Samsung like people only buy apple.
They have their set market and try to do the best they can so they don't get sued.
My one plus is way better at everything than my n10+5g except for camera, but I hate how ugly oneplus phones are so it's sticks to 3rd line backup duties behind my Xperia .
About cell signal : I agree that they have to comply to safety regulations, but since it's 2 W/kg here, why the device only make 0.187 if they are authorized to do more for a better signal ?
Or maybe i don't understand how it isv actually working?
Nastrahl said:
About cell signal : I agree that they have to comply to safety regulations, but since it's 2 W/kg here, why the device only make 0.187 if they are authorized to do more for a better signal ?
Or maybe i don't understand how it isv actually working?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you suppose that wireless radios use perpetual motion engines to output as much power as you want for free? Or, perhaps does the battery have to provide that power? The likely answer for why they limit the output power so much is that high output kills your battery. Then people would be complaining about poor on-time for the phone. So, they have a delicate line to walk here. You want enough power that the phone works but you want low enough power that it doesn't eat the battery in 3 hours. Also, recently quite a few drooling idiots have gotten up in arms about how wireless radiation causes all manner of ailments. So, I'll bet they'd not like to be known as the manufacturer who gives people brain cancer, ruined cakes, rain on your birthday, sterility, the walking farts, and foul smelling discharges.
The fact is: the phones use whatever power needs to connect within certain regulated limits, that's it, the carriers are the ones that have the more difficult task in providing the signal as best as possible, which is indeed somewhat complicated for some geographical situations
Hardware and none optimized firmware in general have an impact on the quality of the phone signal, (modem, antenna and others) and off coarse some apps running in the background of the phone. Nevertheless, it's minimal in comparison to the impact caused by the carriers network regulations, network bands assignment, cell towers distance and users traffic. the unsubstantiated claim that Samsung is deliberately crippling our phones signal strange, is nonsense! (It didn't stop Apple from slowing down some old iPhones, not theirs signal)
Exactly itzik
You guys are trying to rationalize and keep buying Samsungs constraints.
Like I said. My Xperia and OnePlus has better signal and is louder, especially speaker and Bluetooth music than my n10+, my note 9 is rooted so viper4android helps but its signal and call quality has always been the worst.
I carry 3 phones with me, needless to say the ones I need for talk with clarity are not my note10+
It's a shame really that other manufacturers have the exact same signal and loudness constraints Samsung does but can achieve more refinement all the while being smaller than Samsung at that
Collin80 said:
Do you suppose that wireless radios use perpetual motion engines to output as much power as you want for free? Or, perhaps does the battery have to provide that power? The likely answer for why they limit the output power so much is that high output kills your battery. Then people would be complaining about poor on-time for the phone. So, they have a delicate line to walk here. You want enough power that the phone works but you want low enough power that it doesn't eat the battery in 3 hours. Also, recently quite a few drooling idiots have gotten up in arms about how wireless radiation causes all manner of ailments. So, I'll bet they'd not like to be known as the manufacturer who gives people brain cancer, ruined cakes, rain on your birthday, sterility, the walking farts, and foul smelling discharges.
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Click to collapse
No I suppose that if the limit is 2, make it use 2 for the sake of having signal in bad coverage areas (like where I live because of the metal roof of the train station nearby [official statement about why signal is bad]), and not 0.187 max.
Make it dynamically use less when in call by the use of proximity sensor if it detects your body, or something like that, and use its full potential for tethering or when nothing is detected by the proximity sensor (for tethering by example) or at home because you can charge it whenever you want ; etc.
I have note10+ exynos variant, and also amazingly good Huawei p20. I read a lot about the signal issues on note10. I compared the 2 device, same operator. There is a difference between them, definitely. But strangely mostly on signal values. Huawei p20 showed between 2 and 10 dBm better signal reception. But if you start a speedtest, note10+ is faster or the same compared to p20 both on 2x2 network.
Also WiFi module performed better on note10+. A was able to stay connected to very low signal wifi, when p20 couldn't connect at all. However note10 doesn't show low signal wifi. It shows and detect only very high signal networks. But if you already saved the network ssid, you may have chance to stay connected even on low signal.
The biggest problem ive found on note10 is faster modem overheating and throttling on low signal reception. Otherwise is still amazing device.
I also get pen interference on some lte network sites, the pen constantly disconnected on some places using lte 1800 mhz.
at my job at places that with my mate 20 pro i had 1-2 wifi bars now my note 10+ and my previous s10+ doenst even "see" the wifi. it doenst find any networks
The original intention of OP was to say that samsung devices are deliberately capped down, which honestly, is absurd, differences between different devices are obviously to be expected
-BoneZ- said:
TLDR:
--------
Samsung is crippling the radios and audio in the name of "safety" and "protecting the end user". Sending mine back to Samsung.
I've seen many posts on here about signal issues, both WiFi and Cell. This post will delve into some specifics. And sorry in advance that this is a long read.
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Click to collapse
Much appreciated you went into specifics on your reasoning.. Makes it better to get an understanding and discussion going over what someone is saying. That being said, I wanted to reply to some of what your posting with my own observations/understandings as well (in addition to my previous reply). Took me a bit longer to make this reply, had to do some research on a few things first (wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding a few details) and work has been a bit chaotic due to recent events.
-BoneZ- said:
So after using my Note 8 for a year and a half, I decided to try something different than Samsung because I was tired of the poor cell signal and WiFi signal. I decided to get a OnePlus 7 Pro since that company and phone has been so hyped. Well, the hype is definitely real. The phone is super-fast with little to no lag.
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Click to collapse
I have used other phones by other manufacturers with varying degrees of responsiveness. So far my note 10+ hasn't let me down with the settings at the max they can go. I do not get any lag and I have ran some rather intensive applications on the phone (as well as multiple apps that use constant data connections). Lately I've been running a total launcher theme that while impressive has multiple active parts.. Zero lag but I will admit a little bit of a hit to battery performance. Given the sci-fi nature of the theme I am totally ok with that, the phone still lasts all day on a single charge.
Now if we had a higher refresh rate on our screens... Oh that would be totally fantastic.
The EQ thing you mentioned, I haven't ran into yet but I can try it later and see if it happens. Mostly I leave my settings on whatever defaults are and dolby atmos turned on. Generally I have to turn down the volume because what movies and music I play sound pretty dang good that the bass tends to get a bit to much.
-BoneZ- said:
I noticed immediately while driving around with the Note 10+, my music was constantly buffering. I thought it had to do with some kind of battery optimization for the app as to why music would stop playing and keep buffering. But I had already taken care of that in the settings.
Then when I took my Note to work is when it was really noticeable. I work on the second floor offices at my job. My OnePlus has excellent cell signal. Almost always 2-3 bars (and when I'm outside, 4 full bars as the tower is nearby apparently) and easily able to stream music without issue. My Note? Nothing! For at least half the day every day, I had zero signal sitting at my desk in the same spot as I do with my OnePlus 7 Pro. The Note would just say (Emergency Calls Only - No Signal). That was infuriating. Especially with a tower nearby, and my other phone has no signal issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Three things I'm finding with your analysis that are troubling...
First - Signal bars. They are not actual measurements of signal power but graphical representations via algorithm for us (being the end user) of what the phone signal quality is like from the cell tower to our phone. Because of the various chipsets and components no absolute definitive measurement exists, so it's not all universally the same across each phone manufacturer. This means what is shown as one bar on a phone made by one company will be presented differently (maybe 2 or 3) on another made by another.
Of course if you want to get into the nitty gritty details signal strength information like RSRP (Reference Signal Received Power) and the quality of signal (RSRQ) and Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)... These measurements are what the cell tower is transmitting to the phone, and what are shown (via an algorithm) as the signal bars. We can access this by dialing *#0011# into the phone dialer.
Second - If Samsung were "crippling" the phone's radio power then they could only do it on what the phone transmits... They can't control the power of the signal the phone is receiving from the cell tower.
Third - If your having buffering issues that is because something is interfering with the cell signal from the tower to your phone. This can be any number of things and it is true that some phone's seem to handle it a bit better... But none of that has to do with the phone's transmitting power.
-BoneZ- said:
The second place I notice signal issues is with WiFi. I keep my WiFi strength turned down to keep the RF exposure low, and to keep from broadcasting my WiFi across the whole neighborhood. With my OnePlus 7 Pro, I get 2-3 bars of WiFi in my garage and the WiFi takes about 10-seconds to connect. With the Note 10+, it literally takes minutes to connect to my WiFi in the garage, barely getting 1-bar, once in a while jumping up to 2 bars then back to 1. And I realize that "number of bars don't matter", but they actually do. It's just a cop-out, and proven that they do have some significance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have some serious concerns with the pattern of logic your using. You keep saying that the phone's are crippled but your premise on WiFi and Cell signal examples are based on what the phone is receiving and not transmitting.
Still lets say that the signal bar for your WiFi connections include the phone's transmitting power... You have already indicated you limit the power output of your router, but have you tried turning it up a little to see if the signal stabilizes? You can have the TX power at it's max without issue so long as your WiFi connection is secured with a password.
Have you changed channels on the router to less populated one? How about re-orientate the antennas (if applicable, some don't have external antennas)... I did this with my WiFi 6 router after I bought it and have some pretty rock solid connections. I didn't at first, so it maybe worth trying for you?
You can also try turning off any power saving settings on the phone. You can also try toggling off the setting in developer options that prefers stable wifi over performance. If for some reason it is already turned off then try turning it on.
I did notice the time it takes to connect to an access point and what maybe is a longer wifi scanning interval. I've gone through the phone and have not found a setting that can change this yet. Still if it takes a few seconds longer to connect then I guess it takes a few seconds longer, so long as it connects to the wifi router.
-BoneZ- said:
Now I want to make something clear for those who don't know. Both the OnePlus 7 Pro and the Note 10+ use the same exact Snapdragon 855 SoC. As you'll see in the image HERE, the Snapdragon SoC has (among other things) the Cell radio and the BT/WiFi radios all built into the chip. And if one would look at the spec sheets for the 855 and earlier Qualcomm chips, you'd see that the radios get more powerful year after year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understood, but more then chipsets are involved in matters like this
-BoneZ- said:
That brings me to Samsung deliberately crippling these devices. The FCC has specific regulations regarding exposure to RF radiation from phones. So Samsung is turning down the power of the Cell and WiFi radios so much to keep well below the guidelines and the RF radiation lower. But this is also crippling the device. It's keeping the device from doing it's number one job: being a phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again some problems with the way this is all sounding...
The FCC regulations are about the transmitting power of the radios in our phones. The FCC also has regulations for transmitting power for cell towers.
So if Samsung follows the regulations they can only do so for what the phone transmits... Which again has no impact, bearing or relation to what the cell tower is transmitting to the phone.
Exactly man! You nailed it! Hopefully OP has a better understanding now
scottusa2008 said:
Much appreciated you went into specifics on your reasoning.. Makes it better to get an understanding and discussion going over what someone is saying. That being said, I wanted to reply to some of what your posting with my own observations/understandings as well (in addition to my previous reply). Took me a bit longer to make this reply, had to do some research on a few things first (wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding a few details) and work has been a bit chaotic due to recent events.
I have used other phones by other manufacturers with varying degrees of responsiveness. So far my note 10+ hasn't let me down with the settings at the max they can go. I do not get any lag and I have ran some rather intensive applications on the phone (as well as multiple apps that use constant data connections). Lately I've been running a total launcher theme that while impressive has multiple active parts.. Zero lag but I will admit a little bit of a hit to battery performance. Given the sci-fi nature of the theme I am totally ok with that, the phone still lasts all day on a single charge.
Now if we had a higher refresh rate on our screens... Oh that would be totally fantastic.
The EQ thing you mentioned, I haven't ran into yet but I can try it later and see if it happens. Mostly I leave my settings on whatever defaults are and dolby atmos turned on. Generally I have to turn down the volume because what movies and music I play sound pretty dang good that the bass tends to get a bit to much.
Three things I'm finding with your analysis that are troubling...
First - Signal bars. They are not actual measurements of signal power but graphical representations via algorithm for us (being the end user) of what the phone signal quality is like from the cell tower to our phone. Because of the various chipsets and components no absolute definitive measurement exists, so it's not all universally the same across each phone manufacturer. This means what is shown as one bar on a phone made by one company will be presented differently (maybe 2 or 3) on another made by another.
Of course if you want to get into the nitty gritty details signal strength information like RSRP (Reference Signal Received Power) and the quality of signal (RSRQ) and Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)... These measurements are what the cell tower is transmitting to the phone, and what are shown (via an algorithm) as the signal bars. We can access this by dialing *#0011# into the phone dialer.
Second - If Samsung were "crippling" the phone's radio power then they could only do it on what the phone transmits... They can't control the power of the signal the phone is receiving from the cell tower.
Third - If your having buffering issues that is because something is interfering with the cell signal from the tower to your phone. This can be any number of things and it is true that some phone's seem to handle it a bit better... But none of that has to do with the phone's transmitting power.
I have some serious concerns with the pattern of logic your using. You keep saying that the phone's are crippled but your premise on WiFi and Cell signal examples are based on what the phone is receiving and not transmitting.
Still lets say that the signal bar for your WiFi connections include the phone's transmitting power... You have already indicated you limit the power output of your router, but have you tried turning it up a little to see if the signal stabilizes? You can have the TX power at it's max without issue so long as your WiFi connection is secured with a password.
Have you changed channels on the router to less populated one? How about re-orientate the antennas (if applicable, some don't have external antennas)... I did this with my WiFi 6 router after I bought it and have some pretty rock solid connections. I didn't at first, so it maybe worth trying for you?
You can also try turning off any power saving settings on the phone. You can also try toggling off the setting in developer options that prefers stable wifi over performance. If for some reason it is already turned off then try turning it on.
I did notice the time it takes to connect to an access point and what maybe is a longer wifi scanning interval. I've gone through the phone and have not found a setting that can change this yet. Still if it takes a few seconds longer to connect then I guess it takes a few seconds longer, so long as it connects to the wifi router.
Understood, but more then chipsets are involved in matters like this
Again some problems with the way this is all sounding...
The FCC regulations are about the transmitting power of the radios in our phones. The FCC also has regulations for transmitting power for cell towers.
So if Samsung follows the regulations they can only do so for what the phone transmits... Which again has no impact, bearing or relation to what the cell tower is transmitting to the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think everything you say falls flat when other devices perform better right next to a Samsung device with all those scenarios and parameters involved.
No matter what scenario you throw at it, another device in the same position doesn't have the problem Samsungs do. I have many phones and tablets on the same networks that perform where Samsung lags and hangs.
That's the point, not that there's rules and regulations that EVERYONE follows, it's that Samsung chooses to not optimize as well as other manufacturers, which to be honest has been the same story since their Android adoption.
We just all forgot because the hardware almost overcomes the software limitations to be barely good enough.
Also all hardware is basically the same now, just rearranged differently inside phones but to the same manufacturer specs and connections or else the built in fail-safes won't let them work, so then what does that leave as the real issue?
You talk ad if ALL samsung devices are vastly inferior relating the topic here, which clearly is not true, as scottusa said, every single user obtain different results due to many factors, in my family, there are 3 different brands of devices in use, samsung, huawei and apple, on some ocasions one of them performs better than the others, and other times it doesn't, not a single one performs always better than the others, that clearly indicates that more factors are involved, not that samsung does a utterly bad job optimizing the devices, this is my experience, you colibio may have haf a very different and bad one, but by no means it reflects absolutely what the rest of the users get, you may see some number of complains about any issue, right, but, users in these forums are in reality a tiny minority, and, as many have some degree of knowledge about these topics, they tend to maximize and demand all sorts of things
scottusa2008 said:
Much appreciated you went into specifics on your reasoning.. Makes it better to get an understanding and discussion going over what someone is saying. That being said, I wanted to reply to some of what your posting with my own observations/understandings as well (in addition to my previous reply). Took me a bit longer to make this reply, had to do some research on a few things first (wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding a few details) and work has been a bit chaotic due to recent events.
I have used other phones by other manufacturers with varying degrees of responsiveness. So far my note 10+ hasn't let me down with the settings at the max they can go. I do not get any lag and I have ran some rather intensive applications on the phone (as well as multiple apps that use constant data connections). Lately I've been running a total launcher theme that while impressive has multiple active parts.. Zero lag but I will admit a little bit of a hit to battery performance. Given the sci-fi nature of the theme I am totally ok with that, the phone still lasts all day on a single charge.
Now if we had a higher refresh rate on our screens... Oh that would be totally fantastic.
The EQ thing you mentioned, I haven't ran into yet but I can try it later and see if it happens. Mostly I leave my settings on whatever defaults are and dolby atmos turned on. Generally I have to turn down the volume because what movies and music I play sound pretty dang good that the bass tends to get a bit to much.
Three things I'm finding with your analysis that are troubling...
First - Signal bars. They are not actual measurements of signal power but graphical representations via algorithm for us (being the end user) of what the phone signal quality is like from the cell tower to our phone. Because of the various chipsets and components no absolute definitive measurement exists, so it's not all universally the same across each phone manufacturer. This means what is shown as one bar on a phone made by one company will be presented differently (maybe 2 or 3) on another made by another.
Of course if you want to get into the nitty gritty details signal strength information like RSRP (Reference Signal Received Power) and the quality of signal (RSRQ) and Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)... These measurements are what the cell tower is transmitting to the phone, and what are shown (via an algorithm) as the signal bars. We can access this by dialing *#0011# into the phone dialer.
Second - If Samsung were "crippling" the phone's radio power then they could only do it on what the phone transmits... They can't control the power of the signal the phone is receiving from the cell tower.
Third - If your having buffering issues that is because something is interfering with the cell signal from the tower to your phone. This can be any number of things and it is true that some phone's seem to handle it a bit better... But none of that has to do with the phone's transmitting power.
I have some serious concerns with the pattern of logic your using. You keep saying that the phone's are crippled but your premise on WiFi and Cell signal examples are based on what the phone is receiving and not transmitting.
Still lets say that the signal bar for your WiFi connections include the phone's transmitting power... You have already indicated you limit the power output of your router, but have you tried turning it up a little to see if the signal stabilizes? You can have the TX power at it's max without issue so long as your WiFi connection is secured with a password.
Have you changed channels on the router to less populated one? How about re-orientate the antennas (if applicable, some don't have external antennas)... I did this with my WiFi 6 router after I bought it and have some pretty rock solid connections. I didn't at first, so it maybe worth trying for you?
You can also try turning off any power saving settings on the phone. You can also try toggling off the setting in developer options that prefers stable wifi over performance. If for some reason it is already turned off then try turning it on.
I did notice the time it takes to connect to an access point and what maybe is a longer wifi scanning interval. I've gone through the phone and have not found a setting that can change this yet. Still if it takes a few seconds longer to connect then I guess it takes a few seconds longer, so long as it connects to the wifi router.
Understood, but more then chipsets are involved in matters like this
Again some problems with the way this is all sounding...
The FCC regulations are about the transmitting power of the radios in our phones. The FCC also has regulations for transmitting power for cell towers.
So if Samsung follows the regulations they can only do so for what the phone transmits... Which again has no impact, bearing or relation to what the cell tower is transmitting to the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
winol said:
You talk ad if ALL samsung devices are vastly inferior relating the topic here, which clearly is not true, as scottusa said, every single user obtain different results due to many factors, in my family, there are 3 different brands of devices in use, samsung, huawei and apple, on some ocasions one of them performs better than the others, and other times it doesn't, not a single one performs always better than the others, that clearly indicates that more factors are involved, not that samsung does a utterly bad job optimizing the devices, this is my experience, you colibio may have haf a very different and bad one, but by no means it reflects absolutely what the rest of the users get, you may see some number of complains about any issue, right, but, users in these forums are in reality a tiny minority, and, as many have some degree of knowledge about these topics, they tend to maximize and demand all sorts of things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Consumer ignorance and small report sample, because of consumer ignorance, creates an experience curve in favor of Samsung.
So because xda is more "tech savy", because there's more developers who maybe work in the tech industry, who probably have more means and more devices and get more use of said devices because of their interest/work/hobby/ECT, that means we have an unrealistic expectations when all were saying is that Samsung falls behind in it's product compared to it's peers.. wouldn't you want the tiny sample who maybe knows more to speak up about it?
Frankly maybe it's not just my experience, maybe I just know enough to admit Samsung software is garbage without root and Xposed to make it work right.
This is XDA, this is what we do here. We observe, we report and we try as best we can to fix issues with products costing over $1100 that frankly shouldn't be there.
Nobody should have an issue with data reported by OP, or myself or anyone for that matter, especially when you can look at our Dev section or modules and fixes that exist within our community that were created to fix these issues reported.
What better reflection of the problem than a community coming up with solutions and baking new software.
I really don't like when people can't speak up against the majority when it comes to problems, it seems like the minority are the only ones who are pushing development anyway.