Develop Bugs

[Q] Expert Knowledge on Chipsets Please :)

I posted this in the XDA general section not too long ago and didn't get too many replies, I was hoping I could get some more info here.
"I've been doing quite a bit of research on GPU's and CPU's in phone's/tablets lately. And I have a few unanswered questions that I can't seem to find an answer for.
1: What's the best chipset available for mobile phones and tablets right now? This link cleared quite a bit up for me, it does a fairly indepth comparison for both GPU and CPU performance between the Qualcomm S4, Tegra 3, OMAP 4470, and the Exynos 4212. And I dont want the 'Well this is better because it has more jiggahertz". Shut up, that's not what I need. I need something more indepth. If studies on individual GPU comparison can be provided, please drop a link. I'd like to know these things very well in depth.
2: What individual GPU is currently the best? I realize the Ipad3 came out with with a graphics chip that's supposedly superior to the Xbox/PS3's (which is bogus). However I take anything Apple says with a grain of salt, they're notorious for shooting flaming BS out of their rear. However based on the little bit of searching I've done, the Adreno GPU's seem to be ahead of their time, as well as the PowerVR series seen in apple products. I previously thought the Mali 400 GPU in the Exynos chipset was one of the best, but apparently it's outdated. Again, links to tests/studies/comparisons would be appreciated.
3: What's the deal with the Tegra 3 GPU? It's a 12 core set, but it's constantly outperformed by quad core GPU's, even dual core Adreno GPU's perform better than whatever is inside the the Tegra 3, the Kal-El or whatever it's called. The Power VR's M4 gpu in the Ipad (as said as it is to say) destroys pretty much everything else out there. What's the deal.
If you're able to answer any one of these, even exclusively, that would be appreciated. I just like knowledge "

The Mali mp400 won't be used next exynos .... the nvidia is inferior due to number of instructions per core per cycle didn't change they just brought more cores...... adreno has proven middle of the road but better then tegra and powervr in the latest is the best to see the market the Mali mt series isn't in any products yet.... but I'm hopeful
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Quad core phones to be the standard?

I felt like once phones hit the 1 ghz mark the cpu race kicked into over drive....the dual core phase was short lived and just about old news with quad core phones hitting shelves. Is there anything left after quad core phones? Will this be standard for awhile? I just hope its not a gimmick. Like the whole 4g deal....especially LTE....i still dont feel like the benefit of the slight boost in data transfer is worth the crappy battery life. Hspa+ seems to be a good sweet spot for data transfer.... and instead of improving networks and creating quality broadband services companies waste millions on trying to be the company with the latest inadequate tech. Most people dont even understand what they have or what they are using....if only i had a dollar for everytime i heard....."i love my iphone 4g"
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

I don't know, but as I can't see how there would enough multi-tasking to make more than four cores worth sacrificing features, I would love to see improvements in battery life instead.
Doesn't Moore's law apply to more than just processing speed? Like, we could see improvements in cost, speed, or energy efficiency, but we just keep going for speed? Because I'd really love to have double the battery life.

I doubt that they will be the standard for a while. Look at how amazing the HTC ONE S is performing compared to the ONE X and the transformer prime.
I think that the dual core still has a lot of life in it. Quad core phones may be in all the flagship phones pretty soon, but I don't think that they will be "standard" for quite some time.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA

I hope so.....id rather have a high performance dual core than quad.....unless quad core phones will start flying planes
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Don't worry about core counts. Just worry about overall performance.
Quad core is a meaningless number of cores.

Quad-Cores will remain flagship for at least another year. I predict the 2014 standard for lower-end phones will be quad-core. Dual-Core won't die out, however, because of low-power consumption and prices. Most changes we will likely see in the coming years:
1. Size (Probably a move to smaller 10nm chipsets, thinner screens and phones, Larger displays)
2. Optimization of Current Technologies (Software improvements, thinner AMOLEDS, power consumption)
3. BATTERY IMPROVEMENTS (It's needed the MOST)

Quad-Core phones will be short lived. Right now quad core chips are based on Cortex A9, Cortex A16 is around the corner. The A16 dual-core chips perform faster than current quad core chips and will use much less power than Cortex A9 dual cores we have now. Due to the initial expensive production costs of the A16 it will be a while before we see A16 quads hit the market.
Edit: Of course cheap phones may use the old cheaper Quad Core Cortex A9 in their phones but by no means will it be the flagship thing to have in a phone, just standard like the 1 GHz processors have become.

theherodrownd said:
Quad-Core phones will be short lived. Right now quad core chips are based on Cortex A9, Cortex A16 is around the corner. The A16 dual-core chips perform faster than current quad core batteries and will use much less power than Cortex A9 dual cores we have now. Due to the initial expensive production costs of the A16 it will be a while before we see A16 quads hit the market.
Edit: Of course cheap phones may use the old cheaper Quad Core Cortex A9 in their phones but by no means will it be the flagship thing to have in a phone, just standard like the 1 GHz processors have become.
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Tegra 3 has 2 A15's bro.

Smokeey said:
Tegra 3 has 2 A15's bro.
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Tegra 3 has 1.4 GHz Quad-Core ARM Cortex-A9s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A9_MPCore

Smokeey said:
Tegra 3 has 2 A15's bro.
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You sure? I looked a few places to check and saw it is still based on A9. Seems to be stamped on the same 40nm dye as the Tegra2. Its ghost core seems to have a different architecture however.
Edit: Valynor posted one of the links I was reading, thanks!

Valynor said:
Tegra 3 has 1.4 GHz Quad-Core ARM Cortex-A9s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A9_MPCore
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The next generation (Wayne) has 2 A9 and 2 A15 (est. Q4-Q1 13 release).

More efficient cores seems to be what people really want vs more cores. Along those lines, battery life is more a concern than just raw computing power.
I'm waiting to see what next gen processors bring rather than focusing on if it is quad core or not.

systemf said:
More efficient cores seems to be what people really want vs more cores. Along those lines, battery life is more a concern than just raw computing power.
I'm waiting to see what next gen processors bring rather than focusing on if it is quad core or not.
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Absolutely, definitely too early. I mean it's cool and all but QUAD CORE on a phone right now really? If we keep going this fast we will have 16 cores by 2014. But in all seriousness google and oems should just focus on battery life improvements, software, skins like sense and touchwiz refinements and user experience. Once those things are perfected you can bring new crazy features that would require a quad core powerhouse but for now it really is not needed. Just upgrade the current dual core architecture to A15 based SoC.

Someday:thumbup:
Sent from my i9250 [GSM) Galaxy Nexus

[Q] Tegra 3 VS Mali-400 ?

Hi
Which is better? Tegra3 or Mali 400

I don't know mate, this is what my phone after the update is capable of now.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Well it will be a race for sure

Mali might be faster (or maybe not), but Tegra 3 definitely better. Because it has better, enhanced games. Developers develop for Tegra. They don't develop for Mali or Adreno.
One guy complained that Shadowgun looks better on my phone than on his iPad3 - I had to explain that I'm running THD version, that we have those Tegra enhanced games. That makes a difference.
Tegra 3 will run all games. Adreno/Mali will require Chainfire3D with plugins to run Tegra games.
Thats my view on that.

The Mali 400 is old now, it`s not what the sg3 is getting surely.
John.

Even if SGS3 will get Mali T-604, I will stick with Tegra 3 for now. Unless I see games dedicated for T-604, and more than just one.

more...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/20/galaxy-s-iii-leak/
according to this it will have the 400

antipesto93 said:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/20/galaxy-s-iii-leak/
according to this it will have the 400
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Didn't notice it mention 400. But if true people would find it disappointing, even that 400 is still serious piece of hardware. Given 720p screen, performance would be worse compared to SGS2.

The Mali's performance is the same as the Tegra 3's in graphics benchmarks I've done on my Note Vs my Prime and my One X (just goes to show how average the Tegra 3 GPU really is I think, no better than something at least 6 months older). Disappointing it's not the upgraded GPU if that is accurate, but doesn't differentiate the products at all.

Tinderbox (UK) said:
The Mali 400 is old now
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Technically, so is Teg3. S4 uses 28nm and the 4212 uses 32nm. Teg3 is two 45nm A9 chips glommed together because Nvidia wanted to be first to market with a next-gen chip. It's the least advanced of any of the three SoCs. From a GPU perspective none of the three really move the ball forward and are just evolutionary vs. revolutionary. If I had to guess best overall performance I’d say 4212, Teg3, and S4 in that order. Because S4 and the 4212 are on smaller dies they’ll be more efficient and handily beat Teg3 at battery life (except maybe at idle).

delete post.

BarryH_GEG said:
Technically, so is Teg3. S4 uses 28nm and the 4212 uses 32nm. Teg3 is two 45nm A9 chips glommed together because Nvidia wanted to be first to market with a next-gen chip. It's the least advanced of any of the three SoCs. From a GPU perspective none of the three really move the ball forward and are just evolutionary vs. revolutionary. If I had to guess best overall performance I’d say 4212, Teg3, and S4 in that order. Because S4 and the 4212 are on smaller dies they’ll be more efficient and handily beat Teg3 at battery life (except maybe at idle).
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tegra3 is actually made on the 40nm. nvidia still has tsmc's 40nm process and is migrating towards 28nm with desktop GPUs and will eventually migrate to 28nm with the tegra3+.

i hate how people always say that its a bad thing that apple didn`t upgrade the gpu but fust added more cores or samsung didn`t change the mali 400 gpu. the fact is that the mali and sgx543mp2 were ahead when they were released. now there is actual competition like the adreno 320 and tegra 3/4. a simple overclocked sgx or mali chip is enough to keep up with the competition.

NZtechfreak said:
The Mali's performance is the same as the Tegra 3's in graphics benchmarks I've done on my Note Vs my Prime and my One X (just goes to show how average the Tegra 3 GPU really is I think, no better than something at least 6 months older). Disappointing it's not the upgraded GPU if that is accurate, but doesn't differentiate the products at all.
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Mali 400/450 is a 2nd generation GPU like tegra 2, only 44 millions polygons/sec, My Adreno 205 is 41 millions & The Tegra 3 is 129 millions.
Gameloft games in the end of 2012 will need 100 millions...
The Mali 3rd generation is Mali T-604/640 & Mali say that's it is 500% the performances of previous Mali GPU's :
http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-graphics-hardware/mali-t604.php
500% is using quad-core optimised applis (only tegra 3 will have it in less than 2 years) but it's 250% in dual-core...
As Tegra 3 is equal to T-604, Mali 400 is pawned...
-1st gen (Adreno 200, mali 200/300, SGX Power VR 520/530 & tegra 1)
-2nd gen (Adreno 205, Mali 400MP/450MP, SGX Power VR 540/554 & tegra 2)
-3rd gen (Adreno 220/225/320, Mali T604/640, SGX Power VR G 6200/6430 & Tegra 3)

Sekhen said:
Mali 400/450 is a 2nd generation GPU like tegra 2, only 44 millions polygons/sec, My Adreno 205 is 41 millions & The Tegra 3 is 129 millions.
Gameloft games in the end of 2012 will need 100 millions...
The Mali 3rd generation is Mali T-604/640 & Mali say that's it is 500% the performances of previous Mali GPU's :
http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-graphics-hardware/mali-t604.php
500% is using quad-core optimised applis (only tegra 3 will have it in less than 2 years) but it's 250% in dual-core...
As Tegra 3 is equal to T-604, Mali 400 is pawned...
-1st gen (Adreno 200, mali 200/300, SGX Power VR 520/530 & tegra 1)
-2nd gen (Adreno 205, Mali 400MP/450MP, SGX Power VR 540/554 & tegra 2)
-3rd gen (Adreno 220/225/320, Mali T604/640, SGX Power VR G 6200/6430 & Tegra 3)
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link to your numbers about Tegra 3?

I have not used any device with Mali 400. Sorry mate~~

I think that tegra 3 is better but we have to attend the 3.x kernel to solve the battery problem properly.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda app-developers app

Mali-400 is good and strong and Tegra 3 might not be the fastest one there is, but it's the only one that gets best looking games. On top of that, Tegra 3 Plus is coming soon and then next year another one with direct x and supposed console-like performance. See what Nvidia does for desktops and just hope they keep the pace with mobile GPU and we will get there too. I don't really consider non-tegra device unless it amazes me with noticeably better power efficiency or optimized games start coming out for it.
Would you buy non-nvidia and non-ati graphics card for your pc?

schriss said:
Mali-400 is good and strong and Tegra 3 might not be the fastest one there is, but it's the only one that gets best looking games. On top of that, Tegra 3 Plus is coming soon and then next year another one with direct x and supposed console-like performance. See what Nvidia does for desktops and just hope they keep the pace with mobile GPU and we will get there too. I don't really consider non-tegra device unless it amazes me with noticeably better power efficiency or optimized games start coming out for it.
Would you buy non-nvidia and non-ati graphics card for your pc?
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Exactly!
Given the choice, I would buy a Tegra device over anything else.

Why octa-core?

The galaxy tab s products that are available to me have an octa-core processor, with the high speed cores being 1.9ghz. I can't really understand why Samsung chose to use that instead of a 2.3ghz quad-core like in the tab pro.

See Wikipedia for an explanation of the concept: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_...multi-processing_.28global_task_scheduling.29

Because the Exynos 5 Octa-core is the one processor that Samsung has to be able to compete with Snapdragon 800, and is cheaper to implement since it's their own processor. I don't buy the Octa-core hype, I'd be happier with the Snapdragon 800 honestly like on the Tab PRO 8.4.

The question is:
Does TAB S use the 8 cores at the same time?
It seams it does NOT, little cores are only used when low power is required..
So performance wise, this CPU is slower than SD 800

ssuper2k said:
The question is:
Does TAB S use the 8 cores at the same time?
It seams it does NOT, little cores are only used when low power is required..
So performance wise, this CPU is slower than SD 800
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And yet I am getting 35,300 on Antutu using Shaheers t800 rom which is higher than any other current tablet or phone. (Shaheer's rom should go out of beta today - don't flash until final has been posted).
The Tab Pro 8.4 Antutu is 32,806.

I CANT PLAY NOVA 3 with exynos !
AND GAMING IS NOT SO SMOOTH ! STILL A BIT LAGGY

I can see the argument that you don't always need full power, thus the four slow cores, but since all cores can't run at once, it seems a cheat to have 1.9ghz as the top speed for the faster four cores. Since, or at least I assume, cores step up and down as needed, it seems to me a snapdragon 800 or higher at 2.3ghz or higher would have been just fine. I mean, if you are going to put in 3gb of RAM, then you should put in a great cpu also and not pretend less (1.9ghz) is a better contribution to what is supposed to be a premium tablet.

And yet I don't think samsung is doing enough to utilizing this hardware capability. In theory it should run at least 4x faster and 6x more effecient then the snap dragon and apple current A8 chip. It has failed to outshine the competitors because samsung software department sucks. Samsung hardware is still great though.

sku|| said:
I CANT PLAY NOVA 3 with exynos !
AND GAMING IS NOT SO SMOOTH ! STILL A BIT LAGGY
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Blame the developer for not making it compatible. Tegra powered Htc one x is incompatible too so not sure that is exynos issue..

i wish my t805 had Full HD screen resolution :cyclops:

Funny. Was just browsing the web a bit on my i5 ultrabook and it occurred to me that the browser on my Tab S is actually faster. If gaming is your primary thing, I'd buy the Nvidia Shield, not the Tab S. This tablet is designed for eye candy media consumption (internet and video) not for gaming enthusiasts. Try running your PC video card at 2560 x 1600 on ultra and see what you get.

i had heard from a Samsung rep i actually enjoy talking to that Sammy had just figured the all cores at once and we should see updates that turn that feature on. when this will happen who knows. i also did not ask him for a link and now cant find that info on the web so when i see him again soon i will get more info.
i would assume (insert you know what that means) that when/if this happens the full power of this setup would greatly improve?
anyway i have had my Tab S running snappy for me and no complaints at this time

You cannot compare the clock speeds from two different processors. For instance, you can't compare the 1.9GHz quad-core of the Exynos to the 2.3GHz quad-core of the Snapdragon 800. This doesn't mean anything. If you compare the clock speed of two Snapdragon chips, that's ok, or if you compare the clock speed of two Exynos chips, then that's ok too. Comparing the clock speed of an Intel chip against the clock speed of an AMD chip, is the same as comparing the clock speed of an Exynos chip to the clock speed of a Snapdragon chip.
The Exynos chip in this tablet has been shown to compete very well/close with the Snapdragon on every level except GPU. The Mali GPU in this chip just doesn't match the Adreno GPU from the Snapdragon. However, the RAM is faster in the Exynos than the Snapdragon.
That said, I am a fan of the Snapdragon chip, of course. I was holding off to see if the LTE variant of this tablet would have the Snapdragon 800, but instead they shipped with an Intel LTE modem. Besides apps/games not being optimized for Exynos, I am fairly satisfied with my purchase. I'm just anxious to get CyanogenMod(or any other AOSP ROM installed on it).

fletch33 said:
i had heard from a Samsung rep i actually enjoy talking to that Sammy had just figured the all cores at once and we should see updates that turn that feature on. when this will happen who knows. i also did not ask him for a link and now cant find that info on the web so when i see him again soon i will get more info.
i would assume (insert you know what that means) that when/if this happens the full power of this setup would greatly improve?
anyway i have had my Tab S running snappy for me and no complaints at this time
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Could also mean increased battery consumption,don't know. Overall I am satisfied with this Tab including battery life.

There are 3 different performace results:
a) what Exynos 520 does achieve in practice now, measured bei some benchmarks and real world performance (<= Snapdragon 800)
b) what it could do theoretically - but will never happen due to driver and scheduler etc issues (>> Snapdragon)
c) what it will do some day in near future on an optimized ROM (somewhere in between?)
Fortunately the Exynos 5420 does support all 8 cores in parallel, see here:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Exynos-5420-Octa-SoC.103633.0.html

pibach said:
There are 3 different performace results:
a) what Exynos 520 does achieve in practice now, measured bei some benchmarks and real world performance (<= Snapdragon 800)
b) what it could do theoretically - but will never happen due to driver and scheduler etc issues (>> Snapdragon)
c) what it will do some day in near future on an optimized ROM (somewhere in between?)
Fortunately the Exynos 5420 does support all 8 cores in parallel, see here:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Exynos-5420-Octa-SoC.103633.0.html
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Wish I knew how. Probably a linux thing. ...
If it is possible to implement in today's existing source, I'm sure @AndreiLux would know about it ?

UpInTheAir said:
Wish I knew how. Probably a linux thing. ...
If it is possible to implement in today's existing source, I'm sure @AndreiLux would know about it ?
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It's impossible.

AndreiLux said:
It's impossible.
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What and why?

pibach said:
What and why?
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http://www.androidauthority.com/sam...ta-can-use-eight-cores-simultaneously-267316/
I've found a few articles saying it should support it, then a couple Deva saying they had to goto the 5422 for a working implementation of HMP.
Here is a post from odroid
http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=5651

That's weird. The (newer) 5422 supports HMP but not 3gb RAM.

Nvidia Tegra X1 CPU

I have been using the tools i could find that would give a close look at the X1 as it is implemented in the Pixel C. Best I can tell google decided to use a revision that is reported by AIDA64 as r1p1. The most interesting, and most disappointing to me, aspect of this implementation is that it appears the 4 A53 cores are turned off.?? Can anyone clarify what is happening?

Yeah it looks like it's only a quad core that's why the cpu is weaker but gpu looks the same it has to be to control the heat.

i have been reading early this morning that in some reports it is listed as a quad core with the A53 cores as shadow cores so in reality it is only a quad core instead of eight core. Nvidia documentation is confusing to say the least. http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-x1-processor.html
states 8 cores. the TX1 developer kit board states 4 cores, https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/buy/jetson-tx1-devkit

dkryder said:
I have been using the tools i could find that would give a close look at the X1 as it is implemented in the Pixel C. Best I can tell google decided to use a revision that is reported by AIDA64 as r1p1. The most interesting, and most disappointing to me, aspect of this implementation is that it appears the 4 A53 cores are turned off.?? Can anyone clarify what is happening?
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The Tegra X1 is based on ARM big.LITTLE Architecture which has Quad A57 cores for performance and Quad A53 cores for power efficiency. The Tegra implementation uses CPU Migration managed at kernel level. When a process is running that doesn't need much raw power, it will run on one of the A53 cores. If the process requires more CPU power (such as when a game changes from menu to gameplay), it can migrate to the A57 core.
I think the info AIDA receives is probably coming from /proc/cpuinfo which generally shows big.LITTLE devices configured with the CPU Migration kernel as Quad core as the kernel scheduler only sees one virtual core for each A53/A57 pair.
The revisions such as r0p0, r1p1, r2p0 etc are targeted at the individual cores, not the whole SoC
Some of Samsung's Exynos devices that implement the ARM big.LITTLE Architecture used an implementation called Heterogeneous multi-processing, which allows all 8 cores to be used at once. I seem to recall this being done as a firmware/kernel revision update (might have been on the Note 3). Not sure we can expect this to happen for the PixelC

skally said:
The Tegra X1 is based on ARM big.LITTLE Architecture which has Quad A57 cores for performance and Quad A53 cores for power efficiency. The Tegra implementation uses CPU Migration managed at kernel level. When a process is running that doesn't need much raw power, it will run on one of the A53 cores. If the process requires more CPU power (such as when a game changes from menu to gameplay), it can migrate to the A57 core.
I think the info AIDA receives is probably coming from /proc/cpuinfo which generally shows big.LITTLE devices configured with the CPU Migration kernel as Quad core as the kernel scheduler only sees one virtual core for each A53/A57 pair.
The revisions such as r0p0, r1p1, r2p0 etc are targeted at the individual cores, not the whole SoC
Some of Samsung's Exynos devices that implement the ARM big.LITTLE Architecture used an implementation called Heterogeneous multi-processing, which allows all 8 cores to be used at once. I seem to recall this being done as a firmware/kernel revision update (might have been on the Note 3). Not sure we can expect this to happen for the PixelC
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skally,
ok. my previous experience with an octa core, if the X1 is an octa core, is the qualcomm 810 as in the oneplus two. AIDA64 reports 8 A53 cores. So there is no big.LITTLE configuration with the 810. Ran across this from a Nvidia dev forum, seems the A53 are invisible, not turned off as i said above.
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/904289/does-anyone-get-8-cpus-listed-/

dkryder said:
skally,
ok. my previous experience with an octa core, if the X1 is an octa core, is the qualcomm 810 as in the oneplus two. AIDA64 reports 8 A53 cores. So there is no big.LITTLE configuration with the 810. Ran across this from a Nvidia dev forum, seems the A53 are invisible, not turned off as i said above.
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/904289/does-anyone-get-8-cpus-listed-/
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The CPU is still big.LITTLE Architecture in both the Tegra X1 and the SD810. Both Nvidia and Qualcomm license and use unmodified ARM cores in their SoC designs. The kernel task scheduler is where the difference lies, the Tegra uses Symmetric Multi Processing/CPU Migration, while the SD810 uses Heterogeneous Multi Processing/global task scheduling
I have no idea why Nvidia don't enable HMP on the Tegra, it is supposed to be even more power efficient.

skally said:
The CPU is still big.LITTLE Architecture in both the Tegra X1 and the SD810. Both Nvidia and Qualcomm license and use unmodified ARM cores in their SoC designs. The kernel task scheduler is where the difference lies, the Tegra uses Symmetric Multi Processing/CPU Migration, while the SD810 uses Heterogeneous Multi Processing/global task scheduling
I have no idea why Nvidia don't enable HMP on the Tegra, it is supposed to be even more power efficient.
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ok. thanks for the information.