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Many people believe that SAMOLED screens on Samsung devices are far superior in every way to other devices. Recently with the addition of all these new and similarly spec'd WP7 phones, it seems like a big deciding factor is the screen display.
I have used a focus and a htc surround for a week in addition to my iphone 4. Watching avatar on both devices, I realize that both screens have their setbacks, thats right even the AMOLED!
The general consensus with htc devices is that the viewing angles are terrible. Check out any video review of a HD7 or Surround and you can see that the screens are extremely washed out when viewed at an angle, and unfortunately, many of these reviewers shoot their videos not head on for obvious viewing reasons.
But when viewed normally, the wp7 htc devices are definitely not as awful as at an angle. Still, it is nowhere near SAMOLED crispness or vibrancy. One thing I did notice, however, is that when watching the same video or viewing the same webpages on my iphone 4, I can rightfully say that the lcd screens from htc are just as good as the overly praised retina display. The differences of colors and sharpness between the two are too subtle to tell.
The SAMOLED screens "pop" in color and vibrancy. Whites are glowing white and blacks are dead on black. No one can say that the Samsung did a bad job on their new screens. However, one thing that people tend to misjudge is the color production on their devices like the focus or omnia 7. It seems that while the surround may not produce white and dark as vibrantly, the ACTUAL colors (red, blue, green) are pretty close to what they should appear. What I am saying is the SAMOLED screens are TOO SATURATED. Again this could all be subjective, but I find that the SAMOLED screen just goes for as vibrant and colorful as they can get, disregarding true color tones. For instance, skin in pictures looks intensely orange and I have never seen skies so blue in real life. Webpage colors can be a bit to contrasting as well. And my opinion is from comparing the SAMOLED to my macbook pro LED screen.
I watched avatar on my blu ray and compared it to the surround and the focus. unfornately to say, the focus just makes the navis look almost syrup-y bubblegum blue. The high contrast of samsung screens are good in some ways but in others, it just seems overdone.
HTC may have made their screens to warm in color, thus appearing a bit washed out when comparing to other wp7 devices. But the AMOLED screen seems too saturated in color production, not just compared to my surround, but also my macbook's screen as well as my LED tv.
So in the end which would you pick? What are your guy's thoughts?
I've never done that kind of testing but my captivate has an awesome screen and I would put it against any other screen. The ritna screen isn't as impressive as apple makes it out to be. At least for me. But I will say these are the best out of all of them. My friend just picked up the x10 and boy does the screen look like $h!#, next to mine.
Sent from my cogcap
I 100% agree with you, infact I have had alot of iphone 4 users comment on how good the screen is on the HD7 which shows what a difference using the phone in a normal way makes when compare to viewing at some obsure angle.
I also have always though the colours look wrong on OLED screens, but having said that, I have always though that about samsungs HDTVs, they seem to over exagerate all the colours and sharpness to make you initially go "WOW", then when you think about it, they just look wrong.
Personally, im happy with my HD7 LCD, and would take SLCD over OLED at the moment.
The over-the-top vibrance is a reason why I went SLCD.
That and the Pentile pattern. My eyes are still well enough to notice fringing on rendered text as well as the pattern generally on evenly lit surfaces.
I had a Nexus One, the OMG-in-your-face colors get old quickly.
thanks for input, the captivate looks amazing running android and playing videos I agree.
But do you think there is a line between displaying vibrancy vs true colors?
Sometimes when I view images in the focus, it feels like I opened a photo in Lightroom or Photoshop and just cranked up the vibrancy settings to the max, resulting in some drastic color contrasts.
But then again, the LCD screens of HTC do seem last generation. If only they could meet in the middle.
@ Tom Servo, I actually think the Nexus One did a good job on their screens. They use regualr AMOLED screens just like the Zune HD from microsoft.
Color production was beautiful. Only complaint with those screens are that they practically turn invisible in sunlight haha.
For me, WindowsPhone7 is all about white letters on black background and some coloured squares in between.
I do not watch videos on the phone and I don't have much photos to display.
So I chose the Omnia7 with that gorgeous SAMOLED screen because it's superior for my use.
SAMLOED ftw. IPSLCD (retina display) is old, Apple just upped the pixel count. Put that many pixels in a SLCD and would look gorgeous.
Take a peek at this article, it has all you need to know:
displaymate.com/Galaxy_S_ShootOut.htm
Scroll down to section 8: Gamut.
You'll see that the SAMOLED is way over-saturated and that the
iPhone4 is very washed-out.
I own a Focus and a Droid, as well as an e-IPS and s-IPS panels, and I can
tell you that the article is spot on. Colors on the Focus are like crayola simple.
If you want accurate colors, then go somewhere else, but if you want the
"wow factor" then go SAMOLED hands down.
Hope that helps.
mrroey said:
@ Tom Servo, I actually think the Nexus One did a good job on their screens. They use regualr AMOLED screens just like the Zune HD from microsoft.
Color production was beautiful. Only complaint with those screens are that they practically turn invisible in sunlight haha.
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I went from Nexus to Trophy. Looking at the same pictures, I actually preferred SLCD. That and as I said, some people notice the Pentile pattern. Which also makes text fuzzier. With Metro being pretty sparse in busy textures and mostly text based, I think it makes more sense to use the display technology that has full resolution on all color channels. AMOLED has currently half the horizontal resolution on the red and blue channels.
In relation to Samsung devices, it's possible they're running their Digital Natural Imagine Engine in background. I haven't had a direct Samsung device with AMOLED, so I can't say.
Oranjoose said:
Take a peek at this article, it has all you need to know:
displaymate.com/Galaxy_S_ShootOut.htm
Scroll down to section 8: Gamut.
You'll see that the SAMOLED is way over-saturated and that the
iPhone4 is very washed-out.
I own a Focus and a Droid, as well as an e-IPS and s-IPS panels, and I can
tell you that the article is spot on. Colors on the Focus are like crayola simple.
If you want accurate colors, then go somewhere else, but if you want the
"wow factor" then go SAMOLED hands down.
Hope that helps.
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Click to collapse
That was a GREAT article and very informative, though it can get a bit technical at times. To quote some interesting conclusions from the articles...(NOTE THAT THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN PRIOR TO WP7 PHONE RELEASE)
"We compared the Galaxy S side-by-side to a calibrated Professional Sony High Definition Studio Monitor using a large set of DisplayMate Calibration and Test Photographs. All of the photos on the Galaxy S had too much color saturation, to the point of appearing gaudy, particularly faces and well known objects such as fruits, vegetables, flowers, grass, even a Coca-Cola can. Photos that include very color saturated objects, such as a fire engine, were in some cases painful to look at. These effects are similar to setting an HDTV to a Vivid picture mode and then turning up the Color and Sharpness Controls. The punchy and excessively vibrant looking images on the Galaxy S may initially get lots of oohs and aahs, like in many of the early reviews, but after a while the gaudy looking images will become tiresome and unpleasant."
"There is no decisive winner as each of the three “Super” displays significantly outperforms the others in more than one important area and significantly underperforms in other areas. The iPhone 4 by far has the brightest and sharpest display and is the most power efficient of the displays. The Motorola Droid by far has the best picture quality and accuracy. The Samsung Galaxy S by far has the lowest screen reflectance and largest Contrast for both bright and dark ambient lighting, and the best viewing angles. On the flip side, the iPhone 4 has a weak color gamut and viewing angles, the Motorola Droid has weak screen reflectance and viewing angles, and the Samsung Galaxy S has lower brightness, excessive color saturation, higher power consumption and some sharpness issues. "
so there you have it. according to Displaymate,
iphone 4 = best mobile display
motorola droid (surprisingly) = best mobile picture quality
Samsung vibrant = best mobile display technology
Samsung is notorious for producing display panels with oversaturated color pallet.
It is true for their Plasma, LCD, LED's on the consumer grade television sets and now SAMOLED displays on the mobile devices.
the oversaturation of the AMOLED's have been well documented prior to now. it doens't seem to be a problem for many as everyone has different interpretation of colors in their own eyes anyway.
I just think when u put these phone side by side...and contrast and vibrance of the samsung phones is just ridiculous...true color representation kinda falls to the side
The Retna screen is very impressive because the pixel density is much higher than on other screens. That makes reading on the screen MUCH easier on the eyes than on other screens. You may not consciously know it, but eye fatigue does happen and it's a huge consideration when buying a device you will spend so much time looking at. It also means the text will look much better when/if you zoom in on it.
It's like comparing a crappy CRT monitor to a high class LCD.
The color reproduction on sAMOLED is nice.
However, there's more to a phone than the screen.
HD7 has more RAM than other WP7 devices. It has a bigger screen than other WP7 devices. It has more storage than many other WP7 devices.
The only major downside to that phone, IMO, is small battery and the fact that the screen is flush with the front of the phone. Unlike something like a Vibrant, if you drop an HD2 or HD7 on its face it can destroy your screen.
Of course, that can be somewhat fixed with a case... Some people don't like cases, though...
I like the SAMOLED screens, but when I looked at the HD7 it was better than I thought it would be. That being said I do still want the SAMOLED. The other factors leaning me toward the focus (or samsung in general) are the fact that the screen has gorilla glass, making it much less likely to be scratched and when I was playing with the Focus and the Quantum/Surround/HD7 the screen on the Focus also seemed much more sensitive and responsive compared to the others.
Omega Ra said:
...the screen on the Focus also seemed much more sensitive and responsive compared to the others.
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This might have to do with the fact Samsung places the SAMOLED display directly beneath the capacitive screen. Other phones have a much larger space between the two.
The result is Samsung phones are often thinner, and they appear to be more accurate and responsive.
i put my omnia 7 up against a hd7 in the flesh ( metal/plastic) and there is no comparison. Theres just no going back to LCD now. and as for viewing angles, seriously?, viewing angles on a mobile phone? are you kidding me? no one holds their phone at an angle! its not like we are going to mount our phones onto walls and have 10 people gathered around to watch it.
Since having my desire with amoled display for about half a year I won't go back to lcd/slcd because I think the colors are far more superior at least to me.
I went for the Omnia 7 as business device and I couldn't be happier. Build quality is surprisingly very good, perfect screen size for my needs and all in all I'm glad that I didn't choose the HD7 imho.
Regards
It may not be the sharpest of display and not produce the most accurate colour and I wasn't particularly impressed with Galaxy S S-AMOLED screen on android!
However IMHO S-AMOLED looks stunning on WP7 OS, it really compliments the Metro-UI and when put side by side with S-LCD running the same OS it's just not the same! It's for this very reason that I went for Omnia 7 over HD7.
lqaddict said:
Samsung is notorious for producing display panels with oversaturated color pallet.
It is true for their Plasma, LCD, LED's on the consumer grade television sets and now SAMOLED displays on the mobile devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung plasma and in general any plasma is not as oversaturated as other technologies. LCD and LED displays from all manufacturers are setup to be in the "torch" mode (sometimes called dynamic by the manufacturers) to stand out on the floor. And to compensate for the grayish black level they oversaturate the color.
After you calibrate though, they all look the same, almost. LEDs will have a bit of blooming, LCDs will not be as black as plasmas and plasmas will lack the brightness in case you want to watch in a sunlit room.
The iPhone 4's screen looks pretty good, but 3.5 inches? Ugh.
So I am coming from an LCD screen to the Nokia's Amoled screen and I am curious on Amoled screen is the white supposed to be a "rainbow" color? Like on my LCD screen White is well WHITE no other colors bleeding through. On this amoled screen I am see like a rainbow of colors behind the white like reds, blues, etc it's till white sort of but not as crystal white as the LCD.
Is this by design and something I should get used to? I thought Amoled was supposed to be better...
Laquox said:
So I am coming from an LCD screen to the Nokia's Amoled screen and I am curious on Amoled screen is the white supposed to be a "rainbow" color? Like on my LCD screen White is well WHITE no other colors bleeding through. On this amoled screen I am see like a rainbow of colors behind the white like reds, blues, etc it's till white sort of but not as crystal white as the LCD.
Is this by design and something I should get used to? I thought Amoled was supposed to be better...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whites on Amoled appear to be off-white. It's been this way with every Amoled device. I've never seen it to appear "rainbow" colored.
Amoled produces richer more saturated colors and outstanding black levels.
LCD and SLCD is a lot brighter than Amoled (hence the crystal white) but the black levels do not compare.
Before my 900, I was an SLCD fan. But Amoled with the clearblack looks like SLCD on steroids. Minus the lower white levels. Of course this is just my opinion.
So it's possibly just the ultra saturation bleeding through the "whites" that give it the "rainbow" effect. I don't know how else to to describe it. White is simply no white but like a multi spectrum white with other colors bleeding through.
Looking at mine right now the white looks pretty darn white.
The thing I have noticed is for instance when I bought a samsung focus I was torn between it and two HTC Devices... I forget the names. Both were SLCD. I just COULD NOT get past the washed out look of the HTC devices over the samsung.
The nokia is even richer in color than the samsung.
hx4700 Killer said:
Looking at mine right now the white looks pretty darn white.
The thing I have noticed is for instance when I bought a samsung focus I was torn between it and two HTC Devices... I forget the names. Both were SLCD. I just COULD NOT get past the washed out look of the HTC devices over the samsung.
The nokia is even richer in color than the samsung.
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Agreed - I've had the Focus, HD7s, and now the Nokia 900 and the Nokia is so far my favorite. I feel I should point out that the 'Nokia Blue' theme is sharper than the default windows phone blue theme, making the other devices appear washed out when in fact it's the correct color.
But the ability to use the device outdoors was a huge factor in my selection, certainly.
I like all the colors in the amoled except white. White really looks washed out compared to LCD screens and this is the only disappointment I have with amoled screens.
the benefits of an amoled are color saturation, deep rich blacks, and energy consumption on non-white backgrounds
SLCD create more "accurate" colors, that some see as washed out - generally are a bit brighter (lumens) and more white whites
the amoled produce off whites - if you compare the two, but you should not really notice it on an amoled unless you compare it to a true white
also, off angles can produce a slight blue hue to the whites
to each his own - I prefer the amoleds blacks (with the WP7 metro themes), to the washed out colors of an SLCD - but that does not mean you or someone else will too
could it be that your screen might be dirty?
i know on mine if i have some water or oil on the screen it will create a prism effect, which will rainbow the colors, especially with a white screen.
personally i haven't seen whites get a rainbow effect, but they are a little dim, which could be partly due to the screen tech (amoled) and could also be the hardware dimming them intentionally to save on battery (white is a battery killer on amoled screens)
but the inky blacks and pop of color from amoled makes me not really care, as the screen looks brilliant.
and the clearblack display on the nokia is great in the sun.
rainbow colors are only suppose appear on pentile displays. this phone has a true rgb screen so i dont see why
Nissan350 said:
Whites on Amoled appear to be off-white. It's been this way with every Amoled device. I've never seen it to appear "rainbow" colored.
Amoled produces richer more saturated colors and outstanding black levels.
LCD and SLCD is a lot brighter than Amoled (hence the crystal white) but the black levels do not compare.
Before my 900, I was an SLCD fan. But Amoled with the clearblack looks like SLCD on steroids. Minus the lower white levels. Of course this is just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMOLED does not inherently have dim whites. Samsung just programs a dimming condition into the firmware on some its AMOLED panels that make it dim the brightness based on the % of white pixels on the screen (as a sneaky way to improve battery). The Focus S has an extra setting that lets you disable this, but the L900 does not have that setting.
drleospaceman said:
AMOLED does not inherently have dim whites. Samsung just programs a dimming condition into the firmware on some its AMOLED panels that make it dim the brightness based on the % of white pixels on the screen (as a sneaky way to improve battery). The Focus S has an extra setting that lets you disable this, but the L900 does not have that setting.
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I see. Bummer
A dim AMOLED screen also helps prolong the panel life span a lot. AMOLED screens are extremely prone to burn in. Avoid extreme brightness and avoid leave screen on for extended period.
Just remember this: it is very easy to bump up a screen's brightness (brighter back light on LCD) but it is extremely difficult to produce true blackness on a screen. The strength of AMOLE is the true black because it has no back light. Each pixels emit light. Darker black = higher contrast. No LCD can ever match the black level of an AMOLED screen.
foxbat121 said:
A dim AMOLED screen also helps prolong the panel life span a lot. AMOLED screens are extremely prone to burn in. Avoid extreme brightness and avoid leave screen on for extended period.
Just remember this: it is very easy to bump up a screen's brightness (brighter back light on LCD) but it is extremely difficult to produce true blackness on a screen. The strength of AMOLE is the true black because it has no back light. Each pixels emit light. Darker black = higher contrast. No LCD can ever match the black level of an AMOLED screen.
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i wouldnt keep saying that lol, htcs IPS SLD 2 can almost match against the blacks of a super amoled and has better colors all around without having to be pentile. unless you were to compare side to side you would be completely happy with the blacks on the one x.
edit: http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/05/htc-one-x-vs-one-s/ compare the blacks, barely a difference unless you were looking hard
i would go with the ips slcd 2 anyday considering no burn, great viewing angles, great battery life especially whites and cloes to as good battery life on blacks, visable outdoors, realistic looking colors/not over saturated, etc. its a balance between good blacks, and good whites. still wouldnt touch the one x though
^^^ above poster have never used an amoled display
slpin said:
^^^ above poster have never used an amoled display
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I most definitely have. from samsungs first amoled screens the behold 2. and both gens of galaxy s.
and i take it you have used the one x? no? since its the only phone with the IPS SLCD "2". not talking about regular SLCD, i have the amaze and the blacks look like crap.
almost every reviewer that has had their hands on nearly every android handset has stated its the best screen they have seen. just my 2 cents.
LCD is growing, OLED is still failing with screen burn.
also, im no htc fanboy (anymore). i really want the lumia 900 actually
Any reviewer says SLCD2 is better or equal to AMOLED has no clue what they are talking about. For the most part, they equal high brightness to better display. Read those reviews carefully. They are probably the same idiots who prefer LCD TVs to Plasma TVs. They made no scientific measurements of the contrast ratio of the screens. So, basically they are simply talking out of their a**.
Yes, LCD has more accurate colors. But it can never have better or equal blacks. There is no way to make LCD panel to block backlight completely.
foxbat121 said:
Any reviewer says SLCD2 is better or equal to AMOLED has no clue what they are talking about. For the most part, they equal high brightness to better display. Read those reviews carefully. They are probably the same idiots who prefer LCD TVs to Plasma TVs. They made no scientific measurements of the contrast ratio of the screens. So, basically they are simply talking out of their a**.
Yes, LCD has more accurate colors. But it can never have better or equal blacks. There is no way to make LCD panel to block backlight completely.
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I guess almost every reviewer that has reviewed this phone talks out of their ass, technobuffalo, engadget, phonedog, telegraph? lol, nearly every review that i have read said that. people who love the galaxy s 2, and both aaron from phonedog and john from technobuffalo used the note as their daily and preferred the one x screen.
just because the blacks are one notch off doesnt mean it's not superior. considering it will have better battery life, much more accurate colors, sharper images (when compared to pentile especially), no screen burn (plasma tvs have that horribly, so id stick with my lcd tv). blacks arent the most important color on a phone lol, and i never said they are better or as good. they are pretty damn close though. especially for being a LCD. after seeing screen burn on plasma tvs and oled screen its hard to say id rather have one. people who want a little bit more black screens are okay with screen burn?
and horrible whites?
also, people who dont stay in a cave all day. the ones who go out side, ips is far superior lol considering you have grea viewing angles and its completely viewable outside.
compared to the galaxy nexus the blacks almost looks exactly the same.
i would rather have amoled screen on wp7, but on android i would probably rather have the sld2
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/13/lg-renames-optimus-lte-to-optimus-true-hd-lte-disses-samsungs/
look at this photo: http://i43.tinypic.com/2wn7jfd.jpg
you can barely tell a difference between the menu dots and the bezel. opposed to other lcds. it could be comparable to amoled defintely.
outside photo with low brightness: http://i44.tinypic.com/ipqgzs.jpg
still compeltely visible
overal its all about personal preference, but im sure saying that the new screen is comparable and would even be hard to choose from even over super amoled. i was about to ditch LCD honestly (my amaze has horrible blacks) before seeing this screen. too bad its not in other phones.
Screen quality better be left to those know how to compare, e.g. those who review hdtv for a living. lmao the stuff you quoted above.
Remember, contrast ratio = brigest / darkest. The slight difference in black level significantly changes the contrast ratio. Not so much on brightness.
Yes, there are magic coatings on LCD screens that make them appear dark then actually is. The problem is such coating could cause black crush or false contour. Of course those phone reviewer didn't test those important aspect of PQ of a panel, did they?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
foxbat121 said:
Screen quality better be left to those know how to compare, e.g. those who review hdtv for a living. lmao the stuff you quoted above.
Remember, contrast ratio = brigest / darkest. The slight difference in black level significantly changes the contrast ratio. Not so much on brightness.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using XDA
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Not really something to even think about. OLED hasnt been seen on a mobile devices over WVGA resolution WITHOUT pentile, we all know pentile sucks. colors, sharpness, etc. we have HD screens with IPS completely sharp, great colors, etc. just my 2 cents
http://i-cdn.phonearena.com/images/articles/48137-image/100-Crop-Red.jpg <- pentile
you dont need to review tvs to know if a mobile screen is good or not. these people have had their hands on nearly every android/wp7/blackberry/wm6 handset. pretty sure they have some say, especially for engadget always hating on every company besides apple then says the one x has the best screen they have seen lol.
both AMOLED/SAMOLED, and IPS SLCD have 16m colors. except the IPS has better viewing angles, no screen bleed, able to see the screen outside, whites to look blue, etc. you dont need to be a reviewer to know which is better.
unless your like everything on your phone to be black, and nothing but black then i dont see the point of saying oled is better just because the blacks are a notch better..
on different OS i would prefer different types of screens. LCD would be crap on wp7 i think unless you used whites a lot. we have yet to see IPS SLCD on wp7 i dont ever think we will. on android though i and other people like having high resolution, good looking colors, etc. cant have that with amoled unless you like pentile. wvga doesnt cut it with android anymore
take a look at the nokia 701, has lcd with clearblack and the blacks look great one it.
FYI, iPhone 4/4s has IPS screen and yet it looks hazey and has the lowest contrast ratio among almost all smartphone screens. IPS maybe better than other LCD screens. But it is still LCD screen. It is physically not possible to completely block the backlite. Otherwise, we don't need local dimming technology on high end LCD TVs anymore.
It's actually a serious question. From what I've been reading, I'm supposed to dislike it, but no website I've found had been able to give a quantitative reason why. The screen on my GNex looks perfectly fine to me. Not perfect, but color reproduction is at least reasonable. If I don't have the brightness on full, whites look a little grey, but nothing that would make me say it's terrible. response time for pixels is very good. Images look very sharp and clear to me. I even looked at it with a magnifying glass, and lines looked really clear up close even.
So, what's wrong with Pentile that I'm missing?
Traditional pixels on an LCD have three sub-pixels, red, green and blue. Each lights up at a different level to give you whatever color you need to. For yellow, the red and green pixels light up 100% and blue stays down at 0%. For white, they all light up 100%, gray, they're all ~50%. Etc.
PenTile, in essence, uses some clever tricks to use only two subpixels in each pixel. Every pixel might have a green pixel, but only every other one has a red pixel, with each empty spot being filled with blue. So when you want the same yellow color as before, some pixels will light up 100% (R&G) and others will light up 50% (since it has a green subpixel at 100% and a blue at 0%), creating a slight checkerboard effect that can be visible if the pixels are too large (like on the Nexus One).
However, the pixels on the GN are tiny. You don't see them in normal use. They don't cause many of the problems people ascribe to them (I've read complaints about color accuracy, banding and other crap), thus anyone complaining about them are usually being neckbeards or trolls. It would be preferable to have an RGB 720p vs PentTile 720p, but again you're really not going to notice unless you go look for it.
Archpope said:
It's actually a serious question. From what I've been reading, I'm supposed to dislike it, but no website I've found had been able to give a quantitative reason why. The screen on my GNex looks perfectly fine to me. Not perfect, but color reproduction is at least reasonable. If I don't have the brightness on full, whites look a little grey, but nothing that would make me say it's terrible. response time for pixels is very good. Images look very sharp and clear to me. I even looked at it with a magnifying glass, and lines looked really clear up close even.
So, what's wrong with Pentile that I'm missing?
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Click to collapse
I think you will find that a lot of the hate comes from people associating what are screen defects with pentile, rather than pentile issues themselves.
So it was poorly-implemented Pentile that they were complaining about, I suppose. People really seem to hate it, though. There's a group on FB for people who hate Pentile, but none for people who like it. If even the best implementation just means people are OK with it, is there some other benefit, like faster rendering, better battery life, or thinner panels?
Archpope said:
So it was poorly-implemented Pentile that they were complaining about, I suppose. People really seem to hate it, though. There's a group on FB for people who hate Pentile, but none for people who like it. If even the best implementation just means people are OK with it, is there some other benefit, like faster rendering, better battery life, or thinner panels?
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Cheaper manufacturing and better battery life.
Archpope said:
So it was poorly-implemented Pentile that they were complaining about, I suppose. People really seem to hate it, though. There's a group on FB for people who hate Pentile, but none for people who like it. If even the best implementation just means people are OK with it, is there some other benefit, like faster rendering, better battery life, or thinner panels?
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Given the state of technology, you can only make the subpixels so small. So given the timeframe last year, Google/Samsung probably had to choose between having a PenTile AMOLED 1280x720 or an RGB AMOLED 960x540, or go with an LCD which may have worse contrast or power drain. Given the amount of defects on early GN screens, they were clearly pushing the state of the art of AMOLED, even using PenTile. As technology improves, expect PenTile to eventually disappear. It already has on LCD's.
Pentile on resolutions below 720p - sucks and thats a fact. Those ppl on fb are/have used Pentile screens at lower res, 840*48X or even below, as the pixels can be seen and every object looks like as if they were stitched (lil dots) and not glossy smooth.
mythamp said:
Pentile on resolutions below 720p - sucks and thats a fact. Those ppl on fb are/have used Pentile screens at lower res, 840*48X or even below, as the pixels can be seen and every object looks like as if they were stitched (lil dots) and not glossy smooth.
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Most of those people talking about that are probably using Moto devices, which many use a Pentile rgb-w arrangement.
Makes everything look like cheesecloth is overlayed on it.
ATnTdude said:
Traditional pixels on an LCD have three sub-pixels, red, green and blue. Each lights up at a different level to give you whatever color you need to. For yellow, the red and green pixels light up 100% and blue stays down at 0%. For white, they all light up 100%, gray, they're all ~50%. Etc.
PenTile, in essence, uses some clever tricks to use only two subpixels in each pixel. Every pixel might have a green pixel, but only every other one has a red pixel, with each empty spot being filled with blue. So when you want the same yellow color as before, some pixels will light up 100% (R&G) and others will light up 50% (since it has a green subpixel at 100% and a blue at 0%), creating a slight checkerboard effect that can be visible if the pixels are too large (like on the Nexus One).
However, the pixels on the GN are tiny. You don't see them in normal use. They don't cause many of the problems people ascribe to them (I've read complaints about color accuracy, banding and other crap), thus anyone complaining about them are usually being neckbeards or trolls. It would be preferable to have an RGB 720p vs PentTile 720p, but again you're really not going to notice unless you go look for it.
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the issue is not wanting 720p rgb, it's about prefering having like 580p rgb over 720p pentile
Most of us know by now the limitations of Producing AMOLED Displays for devices such as the Galaxy S, S2, Note 1, S3, and Note 2. All of these devices share the same screen-technology. There is always praise for OLED, but the technology is still pre-mature; that is why when you look at your display in the dark, you come across something called, the Mura Effect. Some folks claim they don't have it on their AMOLED displays. However, all AMOLED displays have this limitation. Obviously, Samsung doesn't want to tell you this. Some might then consider their phone to be defective, whereas some won't.. There is some degree as to how much Mura Effect your display has. Some displays have the Mura Effect in the form of black lines, / blotches, & dots, and some will have them in the form of faint stains, which can only be looked upon when viewed closely in the dark.
From my understanding, the Mura Effect occurs due to the way the display is aligned with the TFT. AMOLED displays are assembled in two layers, the OLED film on top, and the transistor plane below. Due to limitations of the manufacturing process, it is very difficult to get both layers aligned correctly & perfectly to produce a uniform, seamless, display; note that AMOLED displays are very thin. The contacts of the transistors which power the OLED screen are not 100% set on our displays. Therefore, problems begin to stir when you bring the brightness down to the minimum level; insufficient voltage prevents all the pixels on your AMOLED display to light uniformly. That's why brightness unformity issues are very common in AMOLED Displays as well. Voltage is too low at low brightness to get flawless picture quality. The low voltage at low brightness is too low to power all the pixels effectively in our displays. This explains why the Mura Effect shows.
I've made some interesting observations on the past AMOLED display's I've dealt with in the past.
1). In Displays which do not consist of black lines and blotches, but do consist of blocks of faint black stains entailing the Mura Effect; and faint horizontal lines (which become more prominent overtime), burn-in faster, and brightness uniformity issues, become quickly apparent in these particular displays. Colors are warmer compared to the contrary. Some yellowish tint / pink hue is also to be spotted.
2). Whereas, in displays which do display their Mura Effect in the form of lines of little blotches / dots, tend to have a better color reproduction & brightness uniformity, and do not show faint horizontal lines quickly overtime; though they eventually do due to the organic (half-life) nature of OLED's. Yellowish-tint is rarely found. However, blue-tint is more apparent on displays with this degree of Mura Effect.
[Note: Yellowish tint is not the result of glue (common in LCDs); the Yellow tint is a calibration issue, and though sometimes kernel / software updates may resolve the issue, the yellow tint is not completely gone].
My ultimate question is, does the kind of Mura Effect on the AMOLED screen on each Note 2 unit manufacture thus far determine the life expectancy of the display itself? What about the formation of dead pixels? Do dead pixels (due to low-voltage effect) form frequently depending on the extent of Mura Effect on our displays? If my display for instance has black lines / blotches / dots, does that increase my chances of living with a dud phone?
Re: How Does Mura Effect Affect AMOLED Displays In Terms of Life Expectancy?
My guess would be, that by the time the mural effects the screen negatively (if at all) you will have moved on to a different phone. As opposed to a TV which is expensive and you'll be keeping it for way longer than a phone.
That's just my 2.cents
Sent from my SGH-T889
Similarly explained in the following thread from last week,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36908128
The AMOLED Displays use an "Active-Matrix" compared to standard OLED's in today's flag ship televisions which do not have an Active Matrix.
In AMOLED, as a result of continuous low voltage that is being fed into OLED via the TFT even in the lowest brightness, the blacks won't be necessarily black.
Every Note 2 has the Mura Effect like in previous Galaxy Devices. However, the manufacturing process has slightly improved, but not to the extent we all would like it to be.
Unfortunately, I don't consider our displays to feature local dimming, because individual pixels do not actually turn off. Blacks are not blacks, as a result of the varying voltage.
Although there are improvements to the AMOLED display as explained here,
http://www.ignisinnovation.com/technology/ignis-technology-overview/ignis-admo-p-technology
Unfortunately, even though the solution provided in the above link by ignisinnovation has been in the market for a couple of years already, Samsung does not employ these kind of standards, therefore every AMOLED display has the Mura effect but in varying degrees such as in the form of stains, lines, blobs, dots, and splothces. This can also affect the display output when it comes to uniformity because the TFT is solely responsible for the luminescence of individual sub-pixels on the OLED film.
The AMOLED displays are improved with compensation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctA114zaY98
When I say manufacturing has gotten better, I meant that Samsung's method of making slightly better AMOLED displays has been accomplished by changing the voltage and better quality control handling.
The material has been slightly improved; the material used on today's AMOLED displays is purer than let's say the material that was used on the S2 and Note 1.
Let's hope that future AMOLED displays by Samsung will be free of Mura and other Quality Defects.
Compesation for a Relaxed Area,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgo6CIZgmo
I've noticed that the screen on my N2 is MUCH better than the screen on my old GS2. That phone had blotches galore, and my N2 only has 2 small, barely noticeable blotches. Better manufacturing & QC is pretty clear by the quality improvement.
That's very agreeable. However, a few Note 2 users have also reported severe blotches on their displays.
What has improved is the number of devices that have left the Samsung Factories with those type of displays.
They are far fewer screens on the Note 2 that have severe Mura compared its older sibling, the Galaxy S2. :good:
kabuk1 said:
I've noticed that the screen on my N2 is MUCH better than the screen on my old GS2. That phone had blotches galore, and my N2 only has 2 small, barely noticeable blotches. Better manufacturing & QC is pretty clear by the quality improvement.
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Is this mura the reason i see some color around black text on white background. Kinda makes the text hazy sort of speak. I assume some displays if put together right wont have this issue. Compared to my s3 which has sharper lines so I find reading on it much better on the eyes. Also my note 2 screen has a warmer tint (even when screen set to standard) vs my s3 which is more cooler.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
What you are describing is completely isolated, and the tint varies from display to display. Because the AMOLED display involves an organic layer, you won't find each display appearing the same, although, white should be white, and when there is too much tint like yellow and pink, then your best option is to get the screen replaced.
aznmode said:
Is this mura the reason i see some color around black text on white background. Kinda makes the text hazy sort of speak. I assume some displays if put together right wont have this issue. Compared to my s3 which has sharper lines so I find reading on it much better on the eyes. Also my note 2 screen has a warmer tint (even when screen set to standard) vs my s3 which is more cooler.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
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winlinmac001 said:
What you are describing is completely isolated, and the tint varies from display to display. Because the AMOLED display involves an organic layer, you won't find each display appearing the same, although, white should be white, and when there is too much tint like yellow and pink, then your best option is to get the screen replaced.
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Thanks for the info.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
S4
My note 2 shows a greyish background in a black wallpaper in the dark but my friends galaxy s4 doesn't. Does it mean the s4 doesn't have mura effect?
I have no idea what you guys said.. But does that mean if I keep my screen on lowest brightness setting, I'll kill my screen faster? And I was wondering what those bloches were. I thought water got in it or something,
How do you see those blotches and other indication of Mura effect? Can it be seen using screen test? My screen seems to be fine after running screen test though.
For me, ,it is when I'm watching YouTube and the screen is black for any possible reason. Then I see some spots that are darker . Try to load a black picture and loom closely.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using xda app-developers app
to test this get into a dark room like 100% black or under a blanket and open a black image
Is this mura effect the same thing that the note1 had? The darker pixels? Because if thats it ive yet to find one on my note2
Sent from my SGH-T889 using xda app-developers app
This is pretty interesting information, has anyone had such a problem with it that they tried to claim it under warranty? Or does anybody know if something like this or even "burn-in" would be covered by warranty, and has anyone actually tried yet? The reason I'm asking is because I had no clue that burn-in was possible on Amoled screens (this is only the second device I've owned with one), so I found out the hard way by using an alarm clock app every night at first, and it actually burned in the digits in less than a week. I tried using some dead pixel fixer apps which didn't do anything (even though I knew it was going to be pointless), so I still can see the burn in on almost every white or blue screen. I've considered trying to file a warranty claim but I honestly don't know if they would even do it or not, so I just thought I'd see if anyone else has tried. The worst case scenario is that I have insurance so I could just make a claim, but I'd rather not pay the deductible if I don't have to. It's also not extremely bad because I have to point it out or most people don't even recognize it even if they've been using my phone, but the point is that I know it's there. Anyway I'd appreciate some feedback from anyone with the same problem on what you've tried. Thanks.
Sent from the bag phone in my Pontiac Fierro
Wow then I have horse shoes up my ass cause I've never had any of these issues even on the lowest light settings my phone looks perfect and I had no issues with my s3 as well
Sent from my SGH-T889V
Keeping your AMOLED Display at lowest brightness will help prolong the panels' life. Avoiding blue colors is wise; as the blue colors in any AMOLED display are susceptible to easy burn-in due to its poor engineering. Howeverm the Galaxy S4's blue pixels are more susceptible to burn in (due to its Pentile Matrix) than the Note 2's. (which uses a real RGB stripe) Both models sport different AMOLED panel technology. The Galaxy S4 will has Mura Effect too (Check out the respective forums; its a shock). Samsung doesn't seem to realize that solutions are there, instead the company hides the problems under a rug.
I have had 3 AMOLED Galaxy S family phones, and used root apps at night to lower by brightness past what stock lets you go, and I have never see any inconsistencies in my screens, even at 1% you can still see every pixel.... I must have got lucky to have screens that were in perfect alignment lol... :highfive:
I was wondering if mura could be white blotches as well? I have some uneven backlighting it seems on my S4 near the bottom right. I almost thought it was burn in. It's a lighter blotch that's only noticeable in the dark with a dark gray/black background up and it's in the form of a circle. It's not a "blotch" though and seems to not be apparent during actual "full black" backgrounds...
I wish I could capture a photo of it but it doesn't really show up on the photos I've attempted to take in the dark.
Hi
I just got a galaxy 10.1 2014 and although it is very sharp it does not seem as dense as the ipad... is it me? Or pixel density on ipad is higher?
ghislandi said:
Hi
I just got a galaxy 10.1 2014 and although it is very sharp it does not seem as dense as the ipad... is it me? Or pixel density on ipad is higher?
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Looking at the specs the Note 10.1 2014 should have higher density
Note: 299ppi
iPad Air: 264 ppi
The N10.1-14 has a PenTile RGBW display which means the PPI count is 299 but there are fewer RGB pixels to accommodate the addition of the white pixel. The white pixel reduces the number of RGB pixels by 8% each. Even with that, the N10.1-14 has more RGB pixels per inch (274) than the iPad Air's 264 so from a sharpness perspective the N10.1-14's superior.
From WiKi....
PenTile RGBW technology, used in LCD, adds an extra subpixel to the traditional red, green and blue subpixels that is a clear area without color filtering material and with the only purpose of letting backlight come through,[11] hence W for white. This makes it possible to produce a brighter image compared to an RGB-matrix while using the same amount of power, or produce an equally bright image while using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types. Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine. When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the LCD levels are increased to compensate. When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.Some folks have noticed some funkiness between certain colors at full saturation due to conflicts between the sub-pixels when all are called to be active under certain display conditions. Yellows and greens on a white background have been pointed out. So depending on what's displayed those with keen eyes could detect some differences between the iPad Air's true RGB stripe display and the N10.1-14's RGBW display.
However, for the same resolution and size the PenTile screen can appear grainy, pixelated, speckled, with blurred text on some saturated colors and backgrounds when compared to RGB stripe color. This effect is understood to be caused by the restriction of the number of subpixels that may participate in the image reconstruction when the color is fully saturated. In the RGBW case, this is caused as the W subpixel will not be available in order to maintain the saturated color. For all other cases, text and especially full color images are fully reconstructed.
thanks
BarryH_GEG said:
The N10.1-14 has a PenTile RGBW display which means the PPI count is 299 but there are fewer RGB pixels to accommodate the addition of the white pixel. The white pixel reduces the number of RGB pixels by 8% each. Even with that, the N10.1-14 has more RGB pixels per inch (274) than the iPad Air's 264 so from a sharpness perspective the N10.1-14's superior.
From WiKi....
PenTile RGBW technology, used in LCD, adds an extra subpixel to the traditional red, green and blue subpixels that is a clear area without color filtering material and with the only purpose of letting backlight come through,[11] hence W for white. This makes it possible to produce a brighter image compared to an RGB-matrix while using the same amount of power, or produce an equally bright image while using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types. Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine. When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the LCD levels are increased to compensate. When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.Some folks have noticed some funkiness between certain colors at full saturation due to conflicts between the sub-pixels when all are called to be active under certain display conditions. Yellows and greens on a white background have been pointed out. So depending on what's displayed those with keen eyes could detect some differences between the iPad Air's true RGB stripe display and the N10.1-14's RGBW display.
However, for the same resolution and size the PenTile screen can appear grainy, pixelated, speckled, with blurred text on some saturated colors and backgrounds when compared to RGB stripe color. This effect is understood to be caused by the restriction of the number of subpixels that may participate in the image reconstruction when the color is fully saturated. In the RGBW case, this is caused as the W subpixel will not be available in order to maintain the saturated color. For all other cases, text and especially full color images are fully reconstructed.
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Thanks
That possibly explains... It is more pronounced at high brightness on black text on white, where iPad seems very dense but on the note seems to have a little grid... More than pixel at ion is the sort of presence of dots on the solid white...
ghislandi said:
Thanks
That possibly explains... It is more pronounced at high brightness on black text on white, where iPad seems very dense but on the note seems to have a little grid... More than pixel at ion is the sort of presence of dots on the solid white...
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What you are probably seeing is the digitizer grid. This is what makes the pen so accurate and pressure sensitive.
[[/INDENT]
ghislandi said:
Thanks
That possibly explains... It is more pronounced at high brightness on black text on white, where iPad seems very dense but on the note seems to have a little grid... More than pixel at ion is the sort of presence of dots on the solid white...
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This is from what I posted above from WiKi...
For all other cases, text and especially full color images are fully reconstructed.
Text, especially black against white, shouldn't be affected by the RGBW display. Examples people gave of the screen being non-traditional was green on white (EG: Play Store).
ghislandi said:
Thanks
That possibly explains... It is more pronounced at high brightness on black text on white, where iPad seems very dense but on the note seems to have a little grid... More than pixel at ion is the sort of presence of dots on the solid white...
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Why do people have to be so damned nitpicky? It seems there is a subset of people on this site hell-bent on picking things apart to find things to bash. It's ridiculous. If you think the iPad is better, GET ONE and stop picking apart everything else and comparing to one.
BretonGirl said:
Why do people have to be so damned nitpicky? It seems there is a subset of people on this site hell-bent on picking things apart to find things to bash. It's ridiculous. If you think the iPad is better, GET ONE and stop picking apart everything else and comparing to one.
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+1 on this. I haven't seen the iPad display so I don't even have a basis of comparison. I'm perfectly happy in my ignorant bliss.