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Hi, I really want to buy a Desire but when I tried it in a store I could easily notice the fuziness caused by the Pentile subpixel layout. This was on white text on a medium coloured background - I've read it's worst on black/white. I also looked at the Galaxy S and the fuzziness was much less noticable - I just hate the look and feel of that phone.
The problem is I have a pretty low tolerance to small details like that and pretty good eyesight, so I was wondering if anyone here is as anal about visual flaws as me but happily lives with the Desire's screen? I want my next phone purchace to last a couple of years at least...
I also thought it might be nice to wait and see if HTC release a Desire with a S-LCD screen - sharpness wins over deep blacks for me considering the other potential flaws with the AMOLED screens. Any thoughts?
(If the Wildfire had either an AMOLED RGB screen or a higher resolution LCD then I'd just settle for that - it looks sexy enough to live with the lack of power.)
any thoughts? eh, sure. I don't see the the "potential flaws" of AMOLED screens at all. Sure a true LCD display will have sharper definition for black on white text, but I hardly would clal my Desire screen blurred or fuzzy. I think its fine. I do a lot of reading on the net too and its absolutely fine, but you are right an LCD like iPhone is sharper for text.
I prefer the colours and the perfect blacks myself. Makes using the phone for watching movies etc a pleasure. If you use it just for very small text though, get something else. If your as picky as you seem, you will definitely have problems with this one with its amoled screen. I won't even mention the over saturated colours or the pink hue when viewing grays. You won't like that either.
i compared the screen on my desire to my friends new iphone 4 and honestly i could only tell the difference when i got so close it was physically hurting my eyes to focus on it, i really think that the screen on the desire is top and i dont seem to have much trouble with it in the daylight either for some reason
By potential flaws I meant the uneven & relatively fast fading and the burn in that some people are reporting.
I looked for the pink hue in the shop but couldn't notice it. Isn't that a hit or miss thing?
OLED is a major selling point for me. But then is resolution (<3 my x50v)
Anyone think the Desire with an S-LCD would be a big improvement?
Yeah, daylight didn't seem to be an issue at all, compared to other devices I've used over the years.
I definitely see a huge difference between Desire and iPhone 4 though. Desire is actually about on par with the previous iPhones in terms of actual blurryness, but the fact the pattern is staggered makes it more noticeable.
Schmeggma said:
I looked for the pink hue in the shop but couldn't notice it. Isn't that a hit or miss thing?
Anyone think the Desire with an S-LCD would be a big improvement?
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Click to collapse
No the pink hue effects all AMOLED screens when displaying certain gray shades. I suggest you read the sticky post all about the AMOLED Pentile display and how it works.
Is the Desire available with S-LCD? If not, whats the point? Just get yourself a phone with LCD and be happy. The power drain on a desire with LCD would be significantly increased too. Sure AMOLED uses more on a 100% white screen, but it use much less on darker themed screens or coloured screens.
I've read the sticky and think I have a good grasp of the issue, but I've seen reports from people saying the pinkness varies.
I also have 20/20 vision and this screen is fine, the only times I'm disappointed is while text is scrolling there is a visable wave in the letters and outdoor in direct sunlight you need to find the good angle to read.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I used to be very anal about my phone. And of course you might be different but for me trying to choose the perfect one / making the perfect one ever more perfect just does not work. Huge effort, lots of frustration, little or no results and even the ones you get are brief. That's the problem with this attitude - you'll just always find another flaw to frown upon.
What worked for me was taking positive action rather than getting rid of all the faults. I implemented Allen's GTD system and I'm using my phone as a collection/organisation tool. Works great and now my phone is a very useful tool instead of being just a gadget. Flaws don't matter anymore. And with GTD I can be as anal as I only wish and still happy
BTW totally agree on Galaxy S. It's so much better phone than Desire but it's simply atrocious. Couldn't bear the thought of carrying something that makes me wanna puke for next 2/3 years.
mcgon1979 said:
No the pink hue effects all AMOLED screens when displaying certain gray shades. I suggest you read the sticky post all about the AMOLED Pentile display and how it works.
Is the Desire available with S-LCD? If not, whats the point? Just get yourself a phone with LCD and be happy. The power drain on a desire with LCD would be significantly increased too. Sure AMOLED uses more on a 100% white screen, but it use much less on darker themed screens or coloured screens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pink hue is not AMOLED related since it shows also in software emulator (on PC) and varies among phones. Sticky post is wrong all around but arguments for that are buried too deep in long thread.
AS for OP, HTC announced LCD Desire, and I would like to see one. I can notice PenTile artifacts and don't like it (together with over saturated colors and pink hue), but phone is so good in other segments it is worth owning.
Lots of anal talk in this thread!
Seriously, I have never seen the pink everyone is talking about and I have had my phone since the middle of april. It's weird that some phones are affected and some are not.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Yeah sure the screen has some negatives about it but when compared side to side to my old iPhone's screen its blows the iPhone out of the water. I prefer AMOLED because I can turn it up full brightness and not be blinded by an annoying backlight that make sthe phone more suitable as a flashlight than a screen.
I thought I replied earlier, but it seems Opera 10.60 is a little glitchy with the forum (and in general...)
Anyway, thanks for all the replies guys. On the way home I had a look at the Desire again in another store and found the screen a lot more agreeable. I tried it sitting down, making me naturally hold it a couple of inches farther away, which makes a big difference. Plus I had more of an "how nice is this display?" attitude rather than "can I notice the flaw?"
So I came home and ordered one online. If the text bugs me that much, I can always stick to my Axim for ebooks.
edit: Still eager to see what S-LCD brings to the table, though.
Apparently, S-LCD does not stand for 'Super LCD', it is just a name of Samsung-Sony LCD factory.
Schmeggma said:
I thought I replied earlier, but it seems Opera 10.60 is a little glitchy with the forum (and in general...)
Anyway, thanks for all the replies guys. On the way home I had a look at the Desire again in another store and found the screen a lot more agreeable. I tried it sitting down, making me naturally hold it a couple of inches farther away, which makes a big difference. Plus I had more of an "how nice is this display?" attitude rather than "can I notice the flaw?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you know that PenTile OLED was in tens of thousands of cell phones for over a year before anyone noticed that they were different? If one has to be told that they are different... well that tells me that they work as designed.
Full Disclosure: I'm one of the inventors of PenTile technology.
PenTile technology was actually designed with a specific minimum distance from which to view it. Bring it too close to one's eyes, one will see the pattern. Actually the same thing also happens with the legacy RGB Stripe matrix, but since one is used to seeing that pattern, one mentally filters it out. The same should happen with the PenTile screen, once one is used to seeing it, one no longer "sees" it, if you can pardon my circular explanation, but it's true. If you use the phone at a more comfortable distance, as opposed to as close to your eyes as you can get, the screen will appear as intended.
vlasac said:
Apparently, S-LCD does not stand for 'Super LCD', it is just a name of Samsung-Sony LCD factory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes me happy, if it's just another IPS or whatever then I know what to expect.
DisplayGeek said:
Did you know that PenTile OLED was in tens of thousands of cell phones for over a year before anyone noticed that they were different? If one has to be told that they are different... well that tells me that they work as designed.
Full Disclosure: I'm one of the inventors of PenTile technology.
PenTile technology was actually designed with a specific minimum distance from which to view it. Bring it too close to one's eyes, one will see the pattern. Actually the same thing also happens with the legacy RGB Stripe matrix, but since one is used to seeing that pattern, one mentally filters it out. The same should happen with the PenTile screen, once one is used to seeing it, one no longer "sees" it, if you can pardon my circular explanation, but it's true. If you use the phone at a more comfortable distance, as opposed to as close to your eyes as you can get, the screen will appear as intended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely would have noticed it if I didn't know in advance. (I'm not trying to imply there's anything good about extreme pickiness - it's a compulsive disorder and a bloody nightmare.)
I appreciate the minimum distance thing, but obviously it varies with eyesight - hence the brief controversy over Apple's 'retina' claims. It's just going to require a slight adjustment to my habits while standing to compensate for this.
As for the RGB thing, I feel that's easier to mentally filter out because it's consistent vertically whereas Pentile alternates the relatively larger red/blue subpixels. I imagine this is why the effect was less noticeable on the Galaxy S's RGBW layout, despite the slightly lower DPI?
markuz85 said:
Lots of anal talk in this thread!
Seriously, I have never een the pink everyone is talking about and I have had my phone since the middle of april. It's weird that some phones are affectewd and some are not.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your saying the new forum theme doesn't look pink to you on your phone? All the grey bits around the forum are definitely pink in colour on mine. Maybe i have one of the affected phones.
vlasac said:
Pink hue is not AMOLED related since it shows also in software emulator (on PC) and varies among phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then it can be fixed with firmware right.
markuz85 said:
Lots of anal talk in this thread!
Seriously, I have never seen the pink everyone is talking about and I have had my phone since the middle of april. It's weird that some phones are affected and some are not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you have not noticed the pink? well then you are not anal enough. try harder
DisplayGeek said:
Did you know that PenTile OLED was in tens of thousands of cell phones for over a year before anyone noticed that they were different?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As above, I think this is subjective. Some people stare at their phones looking for dust, looking for a hint of pink, looking for a mark in the case, looking for... etc etc etc... If you want to treat it like that you will be a very miserable camper. It's a phone, it has an average lifespan of 2 years probably. Use it. It reminds of these people who own a beautiful Ferrari but on't drive it. just keep it in a garage and rub it with a cloth. whats the point?
I think the only thing thats variable on the pink hue thing is the persons opinion of how pink it is. not noticeable or noticeable. some people will say its not there, some people will say it sso pink they cannot even see any other colours.
I had my eyes colour calibrated in a 16 hour operation at an optical lab in switzerland 4 weeks ago, they now recognise 400 shades of pink and have 20/20 vision, so I KNOW my phone has pink. etc etc LOL
FSake said:
So your saying the new forum theme doesn't look pink to you on your phone? All the grey bits around the forum are definitely pink in colour on mine. Maybe i have one of the affected phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The forum doesn't look at all pink on my phone, I've never seen this issue either.
mcgon1979 said:
people who own a beautiful Ferrari but on't drive it. just keep it in a garage and rub it with a cloth. whats the point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rubbing certain things can be very, um, therapeutic...
DisplayGeek said:
Full Disclosure: I'm one of the inventors of PenTile technology.
PenTile technology was actually designed with a specific minimum distance from which to view it. Bring it too close to one's eyes, one will see the pattern. Actually the same thing also happens with the legacy RGB Stripe matrix, but since one is used to seeing that pattern, one mentally filters it out. The same should happen with the PenTile screen, once one is used to seeing it, one no longer "sees" it, if you can pardon my circular explanation, but it's true. If you use the phone at a more comfortable distance, as opposed to as close to your eyes as you can get, the screen will appear as intended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but all your arguments don't add up. On LCD screens i have perfectly straight horizontal and vertical lines, there is no need to filter out anything.
On PenTile displays i dont have straight lines because of the pattern that is used. THAT is the problem. Lines look like zigzag-lines not straight ones. And no i'm not looking at my phone from 1 cm distance, i'm looking at it from a normal distance and i can see the pentile effect on my Nexus One. I also had a Motorola Milestone which comes with an LCD that surpasses any AMOLED PenTile screen quality regarding resolution. (while both claim to have wvga)
There is a very easy test for this. Take a Motorola Droid and a Nexus One. Place them side by side and open a webpage on full zoomed out view. You will see the difference in resolution quality VERY clearly. Anybody who claims that there is no difference is lying. You can't just imply that the eye can't see an difference because there are many people out there with normal eyesight (i'm not talking about eagle eyes here) which see the pentile pattern too clearly.
The whole topic is quite frustrating because when buying a nexus one you make one step forward (generall hardware) and two steps back (pentile).
I have a diagonal line that runs along the width of the display it runs at a slight angel, it can be only seen with the display set a its lowest setting and running a black image in a very dark room. I have taken the phone back to three (solihull) who after 3 goes of trying to see it are aware of the problem and acknowledged it. They checked their demo phone which didn't have the problem. They have contacted their Samsung rep who I am awaiting a call from.
Does anyone have a similar problem?
This is normal with AMOLED displays.
the thing is, my GS2 doesnt have this "problem" on the lowest screen brightness.
I compared them last night side by side and its very noticable on my Nexus
That said, i've already accepted the fact that everyone else has some variation of this "issue" but im more curious on what the Samsung rep has to say about it. I'm also curious if its more visible on some devices as opposed to others.
I put my brightness on a static settings so it doenst effect me much (I can see it a bit on dark grey backgrounds) but i'm just imagining people who use auto brightness cause there's NO way you can miss it on whites/greys
you must have a magic Galaxy S II then, because it is a known issue with AMOLED screens when running at low brightness.
ill try and take a picture tonight with my devices side by side
honestly, anyone would be able to spot it out if you saw them in person.
Either my GS2 doesnt have the issue, or its VERY hard to see. I took long hard looks because i was really debating if my Nexus was defective - if this is just how it is then im willing to accept it - i just want to make sure we're not part of some funky batch
i assume like this here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19881421&postcount=87
And if you said they tested the demo units, thats also my observation. Some screens have it more than others (others being almost not visible) and some inbetween
oscillik said:
you must have a magic Galaxy S II then, because it is a known issue with AMOLED screens when running at low brightness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be a known issue, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable. I've not experienced any issues like this on either of my Fascinates. I'd certainly return mine if there were any screen issues.
oscillik said:
This is normal with AMOLED displays.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the artefacts you mean but this is a single bar about 3mm thick its not dead pixels like the three store suggested otherwise it wouldn't matter about the brightness it almost looks like something is pressing gently against the screen. I have tried to photograph it but my camera/me are not the best.
Thyrus said:
i assume like this here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19881421&postcount=87
And if you said they tested the demo units, thats also my observation. Some screens have it more than others (others being almost not visible) and some inbetween
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah its pretty much like that
it's like...grainy with weird colours. I wouldnt say i see any thick LINES, instead it reminds me of throwing paint on a wall and letting it slide down. I'll try and take a picture tonight with some high res camera so you guys can hopefully see what im talking about
unfortauntely its not so easy for me to get a return since im in canada and i bought mine through Handtec in the UK - im pretty sure RMA-ing is a huge hassle and wait, plus im not sure if i have to pay for the shipping
Thyrus said:
i assume like this here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19881421&postcount=87
And if you said they tested the demo units, thats also my observation. Some screens have it more than others (others being almost not visible) and some inbetween
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not like that on mine.
lol i took that pic with my G2x, its not as extreme as that in real life.
An OLED (organic light-emitting diode) is a light-emitting diode (LED) in which the emissive electroluminescent layer is a film of organic compounds which emit light in response to an electric current.
It;s Organic. Each row of organic pixels may have slightly different tolerances to voltage than the next, hence you get dark and lighter rows varying to different degrees on different screens.
By all means take a chance and see if a replacement is all the same tolerances with no darker or lighter lines or if it has lots of them and looks like a striped screen. I don't think its a "defect" as such, its just a "characteristic" of AMOLED. If they wanted Samsung could measure the tolerance of each OLED to a very accurate level and there would be no dark or light lines on any screen. It would be very expensive though, so they fall into a catagory of acceptable or not.
Thats just my opinion by the way.
edit: Im actual glad so many others are questioning this too. I feel less pedantic now. lol
mcgon1979 said:
By all means take a chance and see if a replacement is all the same tolerances with no darker or lighter lines or if it has lots of them and looks like a striped screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bear in mind that any replacement you get may in fact have a worse screen. I was lucky when I got my replacement phone (replaced due to volume bug, nothing to do with the screen) and my screen was luckily better. You may not be so lucky.
mcgon1979 said:
I don't think its a "defect" as such, its just a "characteristic" of AMOLED.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed
well i just got my nexus today and as expected noticed a small transparant line running down with screen with auto brightness / low brightness. So i turned it of and manualy set to around 55 60% defintly cant notice it now just bummer cant use auto brightness .... will have to see how battery holds out like this as i luv this phone
Hi all.
Last night I accidentally discovered the burnt pixels on my one year old Focus screen The sights of high contrasts Metro-style icons (such as IE, phone and marketplace) are visible on the white background as a darker "shadows" (actual color is like a light-light yellow, close to white). These "shadows" are visible on the white background in the dark only.
It's not a big deal but I'm kinda disappointed
So, my conclusions are:
- high contrasts Metro-style tiles on the home screen are evil, at least for AMOLED screens. However live tiles (probably) can solve the issue (he-he, just thought - may be it's a real reason why MS implemented and pushing live tiles? Kidding );
- periodical changing of tile location on the home screen also can help;
- using AMOLED handsets for development is not so good. The best practice is to keep AMOLED screens off all the time (what is not acceptable for development).
My Focus is one year old, but I don't have any burn in problems some reported. Granted, I don't leave my phone screen on for extended periods, but my live tile arrangement really never changed.
Now that I have the HTC Titan, I have no regrets with the SLCD screen. The colors seem more natural to me. While AMOLED screens certainly have a "pop" factor, it's not a must-have for me.
This is a well known issue that you have to live with: AMOLED will get screen burn-in if it is use for an extend period of time.
I know most of the Android Galaxy phones also have screen burn-in especially on the status bar.
My own Samsung Focus developed screen burn-in (esp. Metro buttons) after only three months of use.
day2die said:
This is a well known issue that you have to live with: AMOLED will get screen burn-in if it is use for an extend period of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
I notice things on my Omnia 7. Normally if i've had a menu open for a minute or more and i switch to a black background i can see a kind of greyish imprint of the last displayed icons.
sensboston said:
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SAMOLED has it as well. I'm sure it was a big issue in the focus forums last year
The biggest disadvantage of an amoled screen is when you move to another type of screen, and notice just how gray blacks can be. Using my old focus and having the blacks blend with the bezel was so visually pleasing, and the colors had so much pop. I hear that the colors aren't as accurate, but what does that mean really? 90% of what I look at on a phone is arbitrary colors anyway; how would I ever know that the blue tiles are really supposed to be one shade vs. another, and why would I care?
(btw yes, I had the same screen burn-in problem on my focus)
Yeah i had a major burn in problem with my Omnia 7, I think it was something to do with the bright blue theme i used, i have pictures here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=973337
use a screen saver?
Oh ya.. nevermind
Wow... I had no idea of this...
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Is this a really wide spread problem?
renatofontes said:
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to look at your screen in darkness (set white background on the fullscreen first), then say "luckily"
sensboston said:
How about Super AMOLED screens, is problem still persists?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is particularly bad on Super AMOLED screens.
Super AMOLED is still AMOLED.
My Vibrant, if I turn my screen on to the home screen and let it sit there for 10 seconds and then open another app, I can see the shadows on the home screen superimposed onto the app that's running. It's very noticeable, and gets irksome after a while. You won't see that on LCD screens.
The status bar is burnt in, which is noticeable when the phone is used in landscape mode because you can always see that faint strip where the status bar is (in portrait) on the side of the screen.
I set my screen timeout to 30 seconds to "preserve" the screen.
---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------
renatofontes said:
Wow... I had no idea of this...
I have a Galaxy S I9000 (as well as an LG Quantum) and luckily it hasn't burnt in...
Is this a really wide spread problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All of Samsung's displays have this issue. Perhaps you just haven't noticed it, or are just fortunate
Not really widespread, and not really a "problem" per se. Just a component of the screen tech. It burns in and shadows easily.
However they have better power management than LCD screens and better brightness, viewing angles, and outdoor visibility - as well as better color saturation and reproduction. For example, I increase my Vibrant's stock battery life by like 4+ hours doing absolutely nothing but putting a true black background on the launcher...
It's a trade-off. It's worth it for someone like you who doesn't notice it, though. It's worth it even for some people who do. It really depends on how long you keep your phone, Lol. If you upgrade yearly it's not that big a deal. I can't see myself going 2 years with the Vibrant as my primary device and dealing with it, though. It's too startling to look at at times, especially after you spend a significant amount of time in one app with static UI elements and move to something else...
If you look at the AMOLED technology, it's understandable really. All the colours displayed on the screen are composed of green, red and blue sub-pixels.
In an AMOLED screen, there is no backlighting. The sub-pixels themselves generate the visible light, hence why the blacks are so black, because the black pixels are not powered on. (Think of an AMOLED screen as having thousands of tiny tiny LED's)
However the problem with AMOLED is the manufacturers could not produce a specific chemical compound for each colour that would wear evenly. For example, the blue sub pixel has a shorter lifespan than the green. When the AMOLED sub-pixels gets used, the intensity of light produced decreases, hence there is uneven wear. The pentile arrangement was to actually arrange the pixels in a way, which as the display wears, the colours look normal. When there are static pixels displayed, a certain portion of sub pixels gets used more than others, hence why you can notice it.
In an LCD, each sub-pixel is a polarizing filter, which filters out either red/blue/green and displays it or blocks it, so an LCD doesn't suffer from screen burn in as much as AMOLED and PLASMA displays.
From day one I have only ever used my phone on the lowest setting and I have alternated every few days from red/green tiles. I have never used blue due to the low lifespan of blues!!
I don't think it's a huge problem if you are smart. I made the mistake of leaving my screen on as often as possible when I first got my focus. Once I started noticing the burn in, I moved my tiles around, put my screen on 2 minute timeout, and didn't notice any more of the burn in. Just the original images.
As Big K mentions, blue pixels are the quickest to degrade, that is why you never use a blue theme with an AMOLED display. Also, displaying white actually activates some blue pixels and draws more power, so the black system theme should always be used over white.
Every AMOLED owner should know these 2 things and it is a shame that Samsung and the carriers don't do a better job of informing their customers of these simple facts.
I cringe every time I see an AMOLED phone with a white background and blue theme.
This is why I still stick to Super LCD.
I saw an S2 get a burn in within 2 months of use. Lawl.
ohgood said:
use a screen saver?
Oh ya.. nevermind
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The solution is ridiculously obvious: turn off your screen when you're done using the phone. Duh. That's obvious from a simple battery life perspective.
Of course, I see people *constantly* who just set their phones down with the screen on and walk away. Idiots.
jasongw said:
The solution is ridiculously obvious: turn off your screen when you're done using the phone. Duh. That's obvious from a simple battery life perspective.
Of course, I see people *constantly* who just set their phones down with the screen on and walk away. Idiots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The solution is not ridiculously obvious because other screen types do not suffer from thsi issue, therefor the user who moves from an LCD screen to an AMOLED has absolutely no clue that this screen type has these deficiencies. They simply assume their screen will always look the way it does as long as they take care of their phone.
That is not a bad assumption. It just doesn't jive with this display tech.
I love the deep blacks and color saturation on Samsung's AMOLED screens, but I don't think I can ever convince myself to get another one.
The issue isn't just keeping the screen on. I've always used a 30 second screen time-out on all my phones, so they aren't just sitting there a ton with an image on them. Even when you have something on the screen for like 10 seconds and move to another app you can see the image shadows on the screen. Yes, it gets pretty noticeable after a while to the point where it's constantly drawing your attention.
It's actually worse than the PenTile they use in the 1st gen SAMOLED screens, TBH.
N8ter said:
The solution is not ridiculously obvious because other screen types do not suffer from thsi issue, therefor the user who moves from an LCD screen to an AMOLED has absolutely no clue that this screen type has these deficiencies. They simply assume their screen will always look the way it does as long as they take care of their phone.
That is not a bad assumption. It just doesn't jive with this display tech.
I love the deep blacks and color saturation on Samsung's AMOLED screens, but I don't think I can ever convince myself to get another one.
The issue isn't just keeping the screen on. I've always used a 30 second screen time-out on all my phones, so they aren't just sitting there a ton with an image on them. Even when you have something on the screen for like 10 seconds and move to another app you can see the image shadows on the screen. Yes, it gets pretty noticeable after a while to the point where it's constantly drawing your attention.
It's actually worse than the PenTile they use in the 1st gen SAMOLED screens, TBH.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1st gen? It's being used in the Galaxy Nexus, too
It's a really useful point to raise, and something to think about for people using their phones for development. Automatic screen time-outs can be an annoyance when you're testing features (against a real device), and wanting to stay connected (in visual studio) to the phone for debugging info and deployment. I know I have my current phone on most of the day to test tile and page updates etc. so there's bound to be large areas of the screen remaining static for long periods of time.
It's made me think twice about getting a Lumia (which I assume would be prone too) for this reason
I'm surprised manufactures don't include info on it bundled with the phones (e.g. on not having a white background) - that's pretty irresponsible.
I have been through three separate Galaxy Nexus handsets and they all had issues.. mainly screen related!
1st handset - got it on launch day UK.. vertical grey lines on screen and volume bug.. exchanged it..
2nd handset - last week.. horizontal grey lines on screen and paint like blobs all over the screen in lower brightness levels.. exchanged it..
3rd handset - today.. horizontal white band across screen.. and vertical colour gradient down the screen.. returned!
I really like ICS and wanted to like the Galaxy Nexus.. I am really disapointed to have waited months for this phone to be let down by poor quality control..
I have decided I will not get another Galaxy Nexus (or Samsung phone - past experience)..
Eagerly waiting for HTC's interpretation of ICS.. meantime.. I sold my HTC Desire (big mistake)..
Wanted to thank everyone here who posted a lot of useful information..
Could be worse... you could be in the US and not even be able to purchase it yet.
Too bad.. i Love this phone... its superd.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Does this issue have something to do with the super amoled display? Have people heard of this in earlier phones ?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
That's harsh but I've not noticed anything wrong with my handset - perhaps my eyes just don't notice these sorts of things (or I don't seem them as an issue). I'm sure I'd notice white lines though!
there is known issue with the display when its on low brightness. it goes away when its at high brightness.
if you can't live with that, i am sorry for you. you are missing out yet another pure google experience device.
It's hard to say w/o actually seeing them, but the "vertical grey lines" may have been perfectly normal. From what I've read, there's some level of streaking that normally occurs in these types of displays. On mine, when I have the brightness all the way down and am on a white screen, you can see something that might be described as "vertical grey lines."
A lot of Nexus Galaxy's I've seen have this screen anomaly, which is the vertical streak(s) going down the phone. This is only on white/gray backgrounds, as the screen is absolutely fine with other colors. The issue can be resolved by turning off the automatic brightness and manually adjusting the screen to at and/or above 30% brightness. Or you can flash one of the auto-brightness mods to turn up the default brightness.
nyijedi said:
It's hard to say w/o actually seeing them, but the "vertical grey lines" may have been perfectly normal. From what I've read, there's some level of streaking that normally occurs in these types of displays. On mine, when I have the brightness all the way down and am on a white screen, you can see something that might be described as "vertical grey lines."
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My gray lines are horizontal and quite clear on a lighter grey screen.
So sad to hear. I just got my phone and absolutely love it
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
sorry for your issues.. loving mines
fr4c said:
A lot of Nexus Galaxy's I've seen have this screen anomaly, which is the vertical streak(s) going down the phone. This is only on white/gray backgrounds, as the screen is absolutely fine with other colors. The issue can be resolved by turning off the automatic brightness and manually adjusting the screen to at and/or above 30% brightness. Or you can flash one of the auto-brightness mods to turn up the default brightness.
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You shouldn't have to do anything to get a perfect screen on a phone that costs this much.
randypurcz said:
You shouldn't have to do anything to get a perfect screen on a phone that costs this much.
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From what I understand, it's an inherent characteristic of the type of display. If it bothers someone that much, buy a phone w/ a different display.
Hey guys I just saw this and thought I would Give my experience...
I myself got a Galaxy S2 a month back barely and noticed it has the same horizontal lines... about 2 horizontal ones and one diagonal one... along with some blotches... this is a manufacturing fault due to terrible quality control which has started after the super amoled plus screens and sadly and surprisingly seems to have carried on to the amoled HD ones too... never any such issues with the super amoled on the galaxy S including tthe one I owned...
Since it's a manufacturing defect the phone will be replaced generally but unfortunately in my region there is no official Samsung dealer for the S2, I had to live with my purchase...
Again as people have already mentioned you can only see them on the lowest brightness setting or if you are only looking at a dark screen... sometimes can see the lines on grey but depends on other surrounding colours...
I know I'm not happy about iit since it was so frikking expensive, but its still something which guess I can live with... doesn't really make the phone any less amazing...
Would have loved to try the nexus... but just couldn't get myself to go for the missing features...
Sent from my Galaxy SII
feel your pain m8 , ive had like 4 sII returned for same kinda issues sensation xe that twice got dust under screen. And now well first phone transparant line annoying as hell second crazy colour banding like you never seen try searching "crazy colour banding" my third arrived with broken screen so awaiting 4th i love this phone but samsung qq is awfull. I can appreciate people say its down to the tech / characteristic but if thats the case why do the reviewers never get one of these handsets .... hmm wait probably becouse they got a cherry picked one.
Anyway if it is a characteristic they could at least put something in the docs they include with phone so the consumer is aware. Or raise the parameters of the screens they pass thru in manufacturing. I know its a different situation but its not like you would except a tv or laptop with these issues so why do we have to accept it with out phones which quite frankly these days can cost more then a laptop or tv.
you do know there are version of Samsung phones with sLCD instead of SAMOLED displays, eh?
if the display is your gripe, then just waint for the SLCD versions of the same phone
like the SGS2 for example or the next version of Galaxy Nexus i9253 with SLCD
kkh786 said:
I have been through three separate Galaxy Nexus handsets and they all had issues.. mainly screen related!
1st handset - got it on launch day UK.. vertical grey lines on screen and volume bug.. exchanged it..
2nd handset - last week.. horizontal grey lines on screen and paint like blobs all over the screen in lower brightness levels.. exchanged it..
3rd handset - today.. horizontal white band across screen.. and vertical colour gradient down the screen.. returned!
I really like ICS and wanted to like the Galaxy Nexus.. I am really disapointed to have waited months for this phone to be let down by poor quality control..
I have decided I will not get another Galaxy Nexus (or Samsung phone - past experience)..
Eagerly waiting for HTC's interpretation of ICS.. meantime.. I sold my HTC Desire (big mistake)..
Wanted to thank everyone here who posted a lot of useful information..
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I have a horizontal line on my screen. I might be able to post some photos of it later. Adjusting the brightness has no effect.
Sadly getting an exchange. Really enjoying the phone so far.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
I love my nexus
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
I have the gsm GN in US. I have also noticed that at lowest brightness level screen on my phone has a darker red/greyish tint from the top of screen towards the center. But I am not returning it. I have seen similar issues with my SGS2 that I exchanged. However my retired Captivate had a perfect screen. I guess it has to do with SAMOLED displays.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Your first phone had nothing wrong with it. The grey lines are part of the Super AMOLED display. Any Super AMOLED screen will behave that way, apparently. And it's really only apparent on low brightness. I turned mine off auto and set it to about halfway and it looks great now. Can't even notice it.
As for the volume bug, that's a software issue and was fixed with the latest OTA update...
Most of us know by now the limitations of Producing AMOLED Displays for devices such as the Galaxy S, S2, Note 1, S3, and Note 2. All of these devices share the same screen-technology. There is always praise for OLED, but the technology is still pre-mature; that is why when you look at your display in the dark, you come across something called, the Mura Effect. Some folks claim they don't have it on their AMOLED displays. However, all AMOLED displays have this limitation. Obviously, Samsung doesn't want to tell you this. Some might then consider their phone to be defective, whereas some won't.. There is some degree as to how much Mura Effect your display has. Some displays have the Mura Effect in the form of black lines, / blotches, & dots, and some will have them in the form of faint stains, which can only be looked upon when viewed closely in the dark.
From my understanding, the Mura Effect occurs due to the way the display is aligned with the TFT. AMOLED displays are assembled in two layers, the OLED film on top, and the transistor plane below. Due to limitations of the manufacturing process, it is very difficult to get both layers aligned correctly & perfectly to produce a uniform, seamless, display; note that AMOLED displays are very thin. The contacts of the transistors which power the OLED screen are not 100% set on our displays. Therefore, problems begin to stir when you bring the brightness down to the minimum level; insufficient voltage prevents all the pixels on your AMOLED display to light uniformly. That's why brightness unformity issues are very common in AMOLED Displays as well. Voltage is too low at low brightness to get flawless picture quality. The low voltage at low brightness is too low to power all the pixels effectively in our displays. This explains why the Mura Effect shows.
I've made some interesting observations on the past AMOLED display's I've dealt with in the past.
1). In Displays which do not consist of black lines and blotches, but do consist of blocks of faint black stains entailing the Mura Effect; and faint horizontal lines (which become more prominent overtime), burn-in faster, and brightness uniformity issues, become quickly apparent in these particular displays. Colors are warmer compared to the contrary. Some yellowish tint / pink hue is also to be spotted.
2). Whereas, in displays which do display their Mura Effect in the form of lines of little blotches / dots, tend to have a better color reproduction & brightness uniformity, and do not show faint horizontal lines quickly overtime; though they eventually do due to the organic (half-life) nature of OLED's. Yellowish-tint is rarely found. However, blue-tint is more apparent on displays with this degree of Mura Effect.
[Note: Yellowish tint is not the result of glue (common in LCDs); the Yellow tint is a calibration issue, and though sometimes kernel / software updates may resolve the issue, the yellow tint is not completely gone].
My ultimate question is, does the kind of Mura Effect on the AMOLED screen on each Note 2 unit manufacture thus far determine the life expectancy of the display itself? What about the formation of dead pixels? Do dead pixels (due to low-voltage effect) form frequently depending on the extent of Mura Effect on our displays? If my display for instance has black lines / blotches / dots, does that increase my chances of living with a dud phone?
Re: How Does Mura Effect Affect AMOLED Displays In Terms of Life Expectancy?
My guess would be, that by the time the mural effects the screen negatively (if at all) you will have moved on to a different phone. As opposed to a TV which is expensive and you'll be keeping it for way longer than a phone.
That's just my 2.cents
Sent from my SGH-T889
Similarly explained in the following thread from last week,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=36908128
The AMOLED Displays use an "Active-Matrix" compared to standard OLED's in today's flag ship televisions which do not have an Active Matrix.
In AMOLED, as a result of continuous low voltage that is being fed into OLED via the TFT even in the lowest brightness, the blacks won't be necessarily black.
Every Note 2 has the Mura Effect like in previous Galaxy Devices. However, the manufacturing process has slightly improved, but not to the extent we all would like it to be.
Unfortunately, I don't consider our displays to feature local dimming, because individual pixels do not actually turn off. Blacks are not blacks, as a result of the varying voltage.
Although there are improvements to the AMOLED display as explained here,
http://www.ignisinnovation.com/technology/ignis-technology-overview/ignis-admo-p-technology
Unfortunately, even though the solution provided in the above link by ignisinnovation has been in the market for a couple of years already, Samsung does not employ these kind of standards, therefore every AMOLED display has the Mura effect but in varying degrees such as in the form of stains, lines, blobs, dots, and splothces. This can also affect the display output when it comes to uniformity because the TFT is solely responsible for the luminescence of individual sub-pixels on the OLED film.
The AMOLED displays are improved with compensation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctA114zaY98
When I say manufacturing has gotten better, I meant that Samsung's method of making slightly better AMOLED displays has been accomplished by changing the voltage and better quality control handling.
The material has been slightly improved; the material used on today's AMOLED displays is purer than let's say the material that was used on the S2 and Note 1.
Let's hope that future AMOLED displays by Samsung will be free of Mura and other Quality Defects.
Compesation for a Relaxed Area,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFgo6CIZgmo
I've noticed that the screen on my N2 is MUCH better than the screen on my old GS2. That phone had blotches galore, and my N2 only has 2 small, barely noticeable blotches. Better manufacturing & QC is pretty clear by the quality improvement.
That's very agreeable. However, a few Note 2 users have also reported severe blotches on their displays.
What has improved is the number of devices that have left the Samsung Factories with those type of displays.
They are far fewer screens on the Note 2 that have severe Mura compared its older sibling, the Galaxy S2. :good:
kabuk1 said:
I've noticed that the screen on my N2 is MUCH better than the screen on my old GS2. That phone had blotches galore, and my N2 only has 2 small, barely noticeable blotches. Better manufacturing & QC is pretty clear by the quality improvement.
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Is this mura the reason i see some color around black text on white background. Kinda makes the text hazy sort of speak. I assume some displays if put together right wont have this issue. Compared to my s3 which has sharper lines so I find reading on it much better on the eyes. Also my note 2 screen has a warmer tint (even when screen set to standard) vs my s3 which is more cooler.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
What you are describing is completely isolated, and the tint varies from display to display. Because the AMOLED display involves an organic layer, you won't find each display appearing the same, although, white should be white, and when there is too much tint like yellow and pink, then your best option is to get the screen replaced.
aznmode said:
Is this mura the reason i see some color around black text on white background. Kinda makes the text hazy sort of speak. I assume some displays if put together right wont have this issue. Compared to my s3 which has sharper lines so I find reading on it much better on the eyes. Also my note 2 screen has a warmer tint (even when screen set to standard) vs my s3 which is more cooler.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
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winlinmac001 said:
What you are describing is completely isolated, and the tint varies from display to display. Because the AMOLED display involves an organic layer, you won't find each display appearing the same, although, white should be white, and when there is too much tint like yellow and pink, then your best option is to get the screen replaced.
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Thanks for the info.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
S4
My note 2 shows a greyish background in a black wallpaper in the dark but my friends galaxy s4 doesn't. Does it mean the s4 doesn't have mura effect?
I have no idea what you guys said.. But does that mean if I keep my screen on lowest brightness setting, I'll kill my screen faster? And I was wondering what those bloches were. I thought water got in it or something,
How do you see those blotches and other indication of Mura effect? Can it be seen using screen test? My screen seems to be fine after running screen test though.
For me, ,it is when I'm watching YouTube and the screen is black for any possible reason. Then I see some spots that are darker . Try to load a black picture and loom closely.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using xda app-developers app
to test this get into a dark room like 100% black or under a blanket and open a black image
Is this mura effect the same thing that the note1 had? The darker pixels? Because if thats it ive yet to find one on my note2
Sent from my SGH-T889 using xda app-developers app
This is pretty interesting information, has anyone had such a problem with it that they tried to claim it under warranty? Or does anybody know if something like this or even "burn-in" would be covered by warranty, and has anyone actually tried yet? The reason I'm asking is because I had no clue that burn-in was possible on Amoled screens (this is only the second device I've owned with one), so I found out the hard way by using an alarm clock app every night at first, and it actually burned in the digits in less than a week. I tried using some dead pixel fixer apps which didn't do anything (even though I knew it was going to be pointless), so I still can see the burn in on almost every white or blue screen. I've considered trying to file a warranty claim but I honestly don't know if they would even do it or not, so I just thought I'd see if anyone else has tried. The worst case scenario is that I have insurance so I could just make a claim, but I'd rather not pay the deductible if I don't have to. It's also not extremely bad because I have to point it out or most people don't even recognize it even if they've been using my phone, but the point is that I know it's there. Anyway I'd appreciate some feedback from anyone with the same problem on what you've tried. Thanks.
Sent from the bag phone in my Pontiac Fierro
Wow then I have horse shoes up my ass cause I've never had any of these issues even on the lowest light settings my phone looks perfect and I had no issues with my s3 as well
Sent from my SGH-T889V
Keeping your AMOLED Display at lowest brightness will help prolong the panels' life. Avoiding blue colors is wise; as the blue colors in any AMOLED display are susceptible to easy burn-in due to its poor engineering. Howeverm the Galaxy S4's blue pixels are more susceptible to burn in (due to its Pentile Matrix) than the Note 2's. (which uses a real RGB stripe) Both models sport different AMOLED panel technology. The Galaxy S4 will has Mura Effect too (Check out the respective forums; its a shock). Samsung doesn't seem to realize that solutions are there, instead the company hides the problems under a rug.
I have had 3 AMOLED Galaxy S family phones, and used root apps at night to lower by brightness past what stock lets you go, and I have never see any inconsistencies in my screens, even at 1% you can still see every pixel.... I must have got lucky to have screens that were in perfect alignment lol... :highfive:
I was wondering if mura could be white blotches as well? I have some uneven backlighting it seems on my S4 near the bottom right. I almost thought it was burn in. It's a lighter blotch that's only noticeable in the dark with a dark gray/black background up and it's in the form of a circle. It's not a "blotch" though and seems to not be apparent during actual "full black" backgrounds...
I wish I could capture a photo of it but it doesn't really show up on the photos I've attempted to take in the dark.