Hey guys
Im on holiday now so cannot really check myself the differences, but just wanted some quick info on the A2SD, with the official froyo i was hoping everybody will start using it, but somehow people still using the old method, whys that?
thanks
Froyo A2SD is completely reliant on app developers. If the devs doesn't allow it in their app then it can't be moved to the SD card. This is really only a problem because Froyo is still new.
Old A2SD you can dump everything on the SD
However, I'd be interested in seeing if there is a way to force an app onto the nand using A2SD+. Would work better for things like widgets, home replacements etc, as they'd run quicker for people with slow sd cards.
Probably because the FroYo one sucks !
Why ? Well, mostly because devs have to rewrite their apps so they can use FroYo's app2sd function...
With the "old-fashioned" a2sd, there is no need to do anything, just sit and enjoy the free space
APP2SD allows you to move certain apps to your SD card and run them from there BUT as these are placed on the normal root of the SD when you mount the SD, via USB for example, you loose access to these apps until you remount SD. This means you cant install widgets to the SD and such like.
APP2SD+ on the other hand uses an ext3 partition (or ext4 on newer versions) which then installs all apps & widgets to that partition and when the SD is mounted you dont lose any apps or widgets as is located in a seperate partition.
Hope that helps.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
wow! thats quick thanks for you input guys think you explained everything i wanted to know really
Id want to use the offical a2sd as i think using ext3 partitioned sd card have already slightly damaged the card cuz it keeps giving me errors everytime i connect it to a pc
mrwookie6379 said:
APP2SD allows you to move certain apps to your SD card and run them from there BUT as these are placed on the normal root of the SD when you mount the SD, via USB for example, you loose access to these apps until you remount SD. This means you cant install widgets to the SD and such like.
APP2SD+ on the other hand uses an ext3 partition (or ext4 on newer versions) which then installs all apps & widgets to that partition and when the SD is mounted you dont lose any apps or widgets as is located in a seperate partition.
Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me understand the names:
APPS2SD = Froyo Original (comes with official Froyo release)
APPS2SD+ = Hacked version which has been out since FRF50 leak?
EDIT: But if APPS2SD+ is so much better (keeps apps on ext3 partition), why to people keep using the original APPS2SD on their ROMs?
Check this explaination. Quoted from neoKushan from yesterdays thread.
neoKushan said:
Ok, so here's the deal, in a very longwinded way that should hopefully explain everything and answer ALL questions.
You have an SD card in your phone and, a bit like normal PC Hard Drives, you can "partition" them (split them into two or more sections of different filesystems). Normally, your SD card is just one big FAT32 partition, which is fine for storing your pics, messages, emails, etc.
Now, other then your Phone's SD card, your phone will have its own internal flash memory (or "NAND") storage. Tradditionally with Android, you could only install applications to this NAND storage, you cannot install them onto your SD card. So if you have an empty 32GB SD card, but only 5Mb of internal phone storage, you still wont be able to install many apps, if any at all.
This was done to protect the apps from things like piracy - it's not easy to access the location where apps are installed on your phone's internal storage (normally impossible without root), so you can't for example buy an app, copy it, refund it, then install it again.
Still, this is no good for those of us who like to install lots and lots of apps, legitimately, as we run out of internal storage very quickly.
So Google came up with a way to install apps to the SD card. A folder is created called something like .android_secure and this stores (I believe) encrypted versions of applications, but there's a few catches:
1) Apps aren't automatically stored here, you have to manually "move" them
2) Not all apps are capable of being moved, in fact most apps aren't, the developer needs to update their app and allow it. Some apps aren't and wont be updated and some developers may not want to allow it for whatever reason.
3) Not all app data is moved, most of it is but some data is left on your phone so many people still run out of internal storage quickly.
4) You can force ALL apps to be moved to this area by default, but it breaks incompatible ones - such as Widgets, which are unable to load due to the SD card not being "prepared".
So that's Froyo's version. Before Froyo existed, some very clever people came up with a thing called "Apps2SD". Remember I said that your SD card normally is one big FAT32 partition? Well, Apps2SD works by having your SD card patitioned into TWO filesystems. A normal FAT32 partition for your usual stuff and a secondary "EXT" partition. EXT is just a filesystem, like FAT32 or NTFS, but it's the filesystem used by Android internally. The SD card is normally FAT32 because it's a "universal" filesystem, that just about any machine will be able to read, whereas EXT filesystems are generally Linux only, but I digress.
EXT has several different versions. The most common one you'll see is ext3. The main difference between ext2 and ext3 is "journaling", which is just a fancy way of saying that should an operation (such as copying, writing or reading) be interrupted unexpectedly (say, by you turning your phone off), then no data should be lost or corrupted. You know how when you turn your phone on, it says "preparing SD card"? It takes a few minutes, but what it's actually doing is checking that the FAT32 partition hasn't been damaged, because FAT does NOT have journaling. If you used a computer back in the Windows 98 days, you may remember that lovely blue "Scandisk" screen that had to run every time you didn't shut your computer down correctly - that's the same thing. But then Windows 2000/XP came along with NTFS, which also has journaling, meaning you had less chance of loosing data. But I digress once more.
So you have your SD card partitioned into EXT and FAT32. Generally it doesn't matter if it's ext3 or ext4, but you don't get any real advantage with ext4 over ext3 in this instance. Apps2SD then runs a special script on your phone which "symbolically links" the folder from your phone's internal storage where your apps are normally stored, to the ext partition on your SD card. A symbolic link is a bit like a shortcut for folders, except it's transparent to the OS: In other words, Android doesn't know that when it's installing it's apps to the internal phone storage, it's actually being stored on the SD card. This effectively boosts your internal phone memory from the previous 5mb that you had in my example above, up to whatever size you made the ext partition on your SD card (often 512Mb or 1Gb, but it depends on how many apps you install).
Plus, because it's "journaled", it doesn't need to be "prepared", meaning it's ready to go as soon as the phone starts - so your widgets and apps work immediately (unlike "forced" Froyo Apps2SD, where widgets disappear).
The catch with Apps2SD is that whatever space the ext partition takes up is taken away from the SD card. So if you have a 4Gb card (with something like 3.5Gb of actual storage) and you make a 512Mb ext partition, your SD card will "shrink" to 3Gb. The space isn't actually lost, it's just being used by the ext partition. If you reformat your card, you'll get it back.
Finally, there's a difference between "Apps2SD" and "Apps2SD+". Remember I said that your apps are stored on a special folder inside your Phone's NAND storage? Well, that was a bit of a lie. It's actually stored in TWO places. There's a second area which is called the Davlik Cache. You don't really need to worry about what this is for (Hint: IT's to do with the Java runetime your phone uses to run apps), all you need to know is that apps use it to store data, which also eats up internal phone memory. Apps2SD+ moves davlik cache to the ext partition on your SD card as well, freeing up even more space. Some people believe that this may come at the cost of performance, as the internal NAND memory should be faster than your SD card (Which is why you also get people arguing over which "class" SD card is better for Apps2SD - the logic being that a faster SD card means less impact from this move), but the truth of the matter is that your applications will be running from your Phone's RAM anyway, so performance isn't really impacted at all. Since most apps are only a few hundred Kb's in size, or a couple of MB at the most, it's a non-issue.
Finally, any recent version of Apps2SD/Apps2SD+ should work with an SD card that is or isn't formatted with an ext partition. It'll check for this partition when your phone first boots and if it's not there, just use internal phone storage.
Having an ext partition WITHOUT Apps2SD+ shouldn't cause any issues, either, so you can format your SD card whenever you're ready.
So in summary:
Apps2SD "fakes" your phone's internal memory and puts it all on a hidden section of your SD card.
Apps2SD+ pushes even more content to the SD card, freeing up even more space on the phone itself.
"Froyo" Apps2SD has various limitations that "old" apps2SD does not, but is much easier to handle as it doesn't involve any kind of "partitioning".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Vice83 said:
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do that thru recovery-windows.bat by going thru recovery mode by volume down + power, go to recovery then when the red exclamation point appears just run the recovery-windows.bat by double clicking on it. You can get these files from r5-desire-root-alt from the rooting process files (search the forums for this if you don't have it). But be cautious cause when you partition your sd card, all your files will be wiped so make sure to backup everything you need. Cheers!
Edit:
Actually this summary about the ap2sd and ap2sd+ and froyo ap2sd should be stickyed for everyone, so it would not be ask over and over again.
Couple of extra ways to partition:
1) Flash AmonRA's Recovery to your phone (I used Unrevoked to do it)
2) Use GParted on a Linux LiveCD (e.g Slax) to partition your card exactly how you want it
Vice83 said:
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM Manager is probably the easiest way to do it, but I was stuck with EXACTLY the same problem when I rooted. I chose to flash AMON Ra recovery (don't have the link, but you can google it up), and then used that to create a 1024MB ext partition. Then used AMON Ra again to convert the ext partition to ext3. Hope that helps.
However, one question I have regarding neoKushan's explanation is that if I did create a 1024MB ext3 partition, then the same capacity should be visible in the phone's internal memory. However, after I rooted and restored my apps, I could only see about 100+ MB of free internal memory. Can anyone help me with this please? Am using the Opendesire Official Froyo 1.0c ROM that has A2SD built in
deepdevil said:
ROM Manager is probably the easiest way to do it, but I was stuck with EXACTLY the same problem when I rooted. I chose to flash AMON Ra recovery (don't have the link, but you can google it up), and then used that to create a 1024MB ext partition. Then used AMON Ra again to convert the ext partition to ext3. Hope that helps.
However, one question I have regarding neoKushan's explanation is that if I did create a 1024MB ext3 partition, then the same capacity should be visible in the phone's internal memory. However, after I rooted and restored my apps, I could only see about 100+ MB of free internal memory. Can anyone help me with this please? Am using the Opendesire Official Froyo 1.0c ROM that has A2SD built in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about what exact capacity for the internal memory after partitioning to ext3 but when I was on Opendesire before for the eclair 2.1 after I'm done flashing the rom and setting up the whole ap2sd+ my internal memory was 410mb. I used:
swap=0
ext=1024
fat32 is for the rest of the card
Then after upgrading to froyo rooted ROM, I'm only getting 140mb tops. I dunno... I'm too lazy now to get into it right now... maybe soon I'll play around with it again so I can get back my 410mb internal space with the ap2sd+
Stewge said:
Froyo A2SD is completely reliant on app developers. If the devs doesn't allow it in their app then it can't be moved to the SD card. This is really only a problem because Froyo is still new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not 100% true, because you can change the default install location to SD card (via ADB if stock, and an app if rooted) and then you can have the vast majority of your apps on SD card even if they've not been updated for Froyo.
Regards,
Dave
I always thought the main negative with A2SD+ was that the cache was moved to the sdcard, which of course would wear out the sdcard (slightly) quicker.
Vice83 said:
So let me understand the names:
APPS2SD = Froyo Original (comes with official Froyo release)
APPS2SD+ = Hacked version which has been out since FRF50 leak?
EDIT: But if APPS2SD+ is so much better (keeps apps on ext3 partition), why to people keep using the original APPS2SD on their ROMs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly!
Prior to Froyo, there were principally two versions of Apps2SD:
1. APPS2SD (or A2SD )
2. APPS2SD+ (or A2SD+)
The first would move your apps to the EXT partition, and the second would move your apps and the Dalvik cache to the EXT partition (see here for an explanation of the Dalvik cache).
Now we have Froyo, we have "native", or "Froyo" apps2sd as well, which does much the same as (1) above except that there is no EXT partition and the apps are on the FAT32 partition of your SD card.
Regards,
Dave
sparksalot said:
I always thought the main negative with A2SD+ was that the cache was moved to the sdcard, which of course would wear out the sdcard (slightly) quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dalvik cache is only actually updated when a new app is installed or and old app is updated, so whilst it will incur more writes to SD card, it probably isn't anywhere near as much as the apps write themselves to the FAT32 partition.
Regards,
Dave
Great summary, but can I format my 8 GB SD card as EXT3 and just forget about the FAT partition? I'm using Ubuntu on my laptop and my EXT4 /home partition is just fine for storing images, movies etc. I really don't get this ado about having an EXT and a FAT partition. Or am I wrong here?
quick question, if i move to another bigger sd card, can i copy my card and transfer it to the new one without losing the EXT, and the apps on it? would i need to make a image of the card? thanx for any advice.
make a backup of them first on your pc and copy them to the newly partitioned sdcard....ext to ext and fat to fat
So there is 3 versions?
1. Froyo A2sd = fat32 only = apps installed to sd
2. A2sd = fat32 + ext = apps installed to sd in ext partition
3. A2sd+ = fat32 + ext = apps installed and Dalvik cache moved to sd in ext partition
Is there any more variants? lol
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I've been trying to learn up on apps to sd from reading several forums, and can't seem to find the right answers.
I've been rooting and ROMing for months now, but never had a need to push phones to SD. Now i think it's time, but have a few questions.
There's a Move to SD Card option under manager applications from the CM menu. How does that differ from the option to push apps to SD in titanium?
What's the story with ext3, ext4, and sd-ext partitions?
Do i need one of those, and if so which one?
I've noticed that when trying to put apps on sd using hte application settings, that i sometimes can't find the widget associated to an app. Is that normal?
Thnks for your help.
mangle
It's probably the same function. I haven't used Ti much though. I'm still a newbie with that app. The app itself has to support being put on the SD card in the manifest file for the app in order for you to be able to move it.
thanks for the reply. I guess i'm trying to figure out what the benefit of having an SDcard partition is when it comes to off loading apps to the SD card. There have been plenty of views on the thread. I'm sure someone out there has the knowledge.
The benefit is that it puts the bulk of the app on the the SD card to save space on your internal storage since those are usually smaller size than the SD card. It'll still save some data and prefs on internal storage but the apk for the app will be on the card. This is very useful for apps that are large like games which can sometimes be over 20MB.
You can read some of the developer docs here for more info on app2sd.
http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html
Best way I have found to move apps to sd is to partition your sdcard with ext3 (ext4 if your kernel supports it) and then use the link2sd app from the market to move your apps, their lib files, and their dalvik-cache files to the sd-ext. Saves a ton of space on the /data and /data/data partitions.
Also if your running gingerbread you should check out jermaine151's ext4_no_data_limit mods. They take the tiny /data/data partition (usualy the cause of low space errors) and move it to the larger /data partition, eliminating the low space issue. It also converts the ext3 /data and /cache partitions to the faster ext4 file system, speeding up apps.
All of the new ICS roms talk in their instructions to partition your sd card. Some also have a non partition version for those that wish to not partition but those releases take longer to come out.
So why should I partition? I am asking in a general I really want to know why as on all of the rom release pages it just says to partition but no one every talks about why. Why do the newer roms require partitions while the 2.x Android roms never needed this.
Can't anyone let me know?
A lot of ROMs in 2.x support DarkTremor which allows many of the ROMs files to go onto a separate partition on the SD Card. This speeds up the phones response time as you run various apps.
This is most likely why the ICS builds are asking for you to partition the SD Card since they are automatically enabling this which is unlike the 2.. builds in which it was an option.
Doc
DocEsq said:
A lot of ROMs in 2.x support DarkTremor which allows many of the ROMs files to go onto a separate partition on the SD Card. This speeds up the phones response time as you run various apps.
This is most likely why the ICS builds are asking for you to partition the SD Card since they are automatically enabling this which is unlike the 2.. builds in which it was an option.
Doc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this new automatic thing part of ICS or just something differently the rom developers are now doing?
Was DarkTremor built into the 2.x roms? When I first moved from stock to Cyanogen all I remember doing was wiping and installing the zip file, never did anything extra.
LordJezo said:
Is this new automatic thing part of ICS or just something differently the rom developers are now doing?
Was DarkTremor built into the 2.x roms? When I first moved from stock to Cyanogen all I remember doing was wiping and installing the zip file, never did anything extra.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe that this is something being put in by the developers. The ICS you get from HTC, LG, Samsung etc.. does not have this.
DarkTremor was built into a lot of the 2.x roms and would only become active if you you had the SD Card partitioned properly. It is in Cyanogen but it is something that you did not need to use if you did not want to.
There are some good tutorials out there if you want to give it a try. The big advantages are that it speeds up your phone and frees up precious space on your internal memory.
Doc
I believe the simple answer is that ICS has a bigger footprint and therefore requires more internal system capacity. The phones that come stock with ICS have more system capacity than our EVO 4G. A2sd and an ext partition effectively expand the system partition so that these larger footprints will work on our phones.
Non-a2sd versions take longer because the dev has to figure out how to get ICS working with "insufficient" capacity.
Another development to look at is firerat's mtd mod that allows one to reconfigure the system, cache, and consequently data partitions.
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk 2
dcharleyultra said:
I believe the simple answer is that ICS has a bigger footprint and therefore requires more internal system capacity. The phones that come stock with ICS have more system capacity than our EVO 4G. A2sd and an ext partition effectively expand the system partition so that these larger footprints will work on our phones.
Non-a2sd versions take longer because the dev has to figure out how to get ICS working with "insufficient" capacity.
Another development to look at is firerat's mtd mod that allows one to reconfigure the system, cache, and consequently data partitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! That was exactly what I was looking for.
When people use in in GB roms is it just them trying to optimize things better by freeing up system memory by utilizing sd space?
LordJezo said:
Thanks! That was exactly what I was looking for.
When people use in in GB roms is it just them trying to optimize things better by freeing up system memory by utilizing sd space?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that's what I think.
Sent from my NookColor using Tapatalk 2
That is why I partitioned my drive (to move apps to my sd card and to free up space on the phone). I am on the MikG ROM.
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1TonyC said:
That is why I partitioned my drive (to move apps to my sd card and to free up space on the phone). I am on the MikG ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you need to partition the sd card to move apps? That's a built in feature of GB.
Or do you mean system apps?
I was constantly getting alerts that I was running out of internal memory. This was after I transferred as many apps as I could to the sd card.
So I partitioned my sd card and flashed the MikG ROM. No more memory problems .
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Partitioning for apps2sd is not to move ur apps to SD card. It will automatically install ALL apps downloaded from play store to the SD. No need to move anything! Its like adding internal memory to our phones! I was hesitant at first but now I wouldn't do it any other way. I noticed a nice increase in performance on ics roms and I can now download whatever the hell I want and not worry about bogging down my internal memory
Sent from my D.I.R.T.y CM9'd EVO 4G using xda premium!
Rather than posting a new thread, I'll ask my question here since it is somewhat relevant to the conversation.
I'm at work while I was updating to jmztaylor's latest nightly, so I do not want to backup my SD onto my work computer. Can apps2sd be flashed at any point after flashing the ROM or does it have to be at the same time as flashing the ROM?
Jaxp3r said:
Rather than posting a new thread, I'll ask my question here since it is somewhat relevant to the conversation.
I'm at work while I was updating to jmztaylor's latest nightly, so I do not want to backup my SD onto my work computer. Can apps2sd be flashed at any point after flashing the ROM or does it have to be at the same time as flashing the ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can be done later.
Captain_Throwback said:
It can be done later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, thanks for the info!
The main difference between the built-in moving of apps and the partition is where the apps go.
With GB's moving (a2sd) the .apk file is moved to a directory on your SD card called .android-secure. The big con to this is that if your SD isn't mounted (for example, if you're moving files from your computer, or on the initial error check on boot), you can't access these apps. You also cannot use any widgets an app might have if it's been moved to .android-secure.
If you have a partition (ext3 generally) then it's a different story. Generally, what happens is that the /data/app directory in your internal storage is symlinked to your partition, /ext. (I think it's /ext/data/app, but I can't remember and haven't used the sd partition for a bit). Pros to this one are much more space, since assuming you have the space and your SD is fast enough you can also symlink your appdata and dalvik-cache. Plus, you are able to use widgets because Android thinks the apps are installed to the internal data. One major con is that you can potentially reduce your SD card's life, since it will be reading and writing a lot more from that portion of it.
And a symlink explanation: In a sense, it points one directory to another area of the filesystem. When I was partitioned Root Explorer showed my symlinked /data/app as this: "/data/app > /ext/data/app". It's a way to have parts of the filesystem "appear" in other areas without having to copy/paste. I've used it to get a few directories to sync to Dropbox without having to keep spare copies of my files in the main Dropbox ones.
Be careful. I just did it an hour ago and everything disappeared from my sd card. So pissed.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
What are partitions..
SLB9884 said:
Be careful. I just did it an hour ago and everything disappeared from my sd card. So pissed.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is because when you re-partition your card (or hard drive,etc..) it basically wipes it. What you are doing is redefining the very volumes that take up space on your card and giving them a starting and ending block address based on the size of the card and the defined size of the partition. You can think of it has a two pieces of glass and you are pouring colored sand in. You pour red in and get your data partition, then you pour in green and get your swap partition so on. Eventually all partitions are defined and ideally will make the most use of the total space on your card.
So when you partition, it's very low level and requires abandoning all data and prior formats on the card unless you are using some special software that attempts to adjust the sizes of the partitions.
Somewhere at the beginning of your card is a small sector that lists all the partitions and their starting/ending blocks, plus other relevant informationj.
So if you plan to partition, you need to back up the data first to your pc or what not.
Storage
Because its an entire system you'll want to to save space on your card, make a backup of any important files because its gonna wipe it and you cant undo it
Here's a couple of great guides for a2sd. Once I finally did my phone performed much better.
http://therootofallevo.com/2011/04/10-step-guide-properly-set-darktremors-a2sd/
http://androplasty.com/2011/08/mini-guide-how-to-re-partition-your-sd-card/