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Hi
I am creating an NFC based solution and i need to send some information from a Nexus S to a desktop (windows 7 with ACR122 NFC Reader) via NFC. I have tried to do it using the P2P mode but i didn't find a way to read those information using the NFC reader.
And since it'is possible for the NFC to reader to reader MiFare NFC card , I need some help to know how is possible to emulate MiFare Card?
Which ROM enable NFC Card Emulation ? And how To Do it ?
Thanks
zouppa said:
Hi
I am creating an NFC based solution and i need to send some information from a Nexus S to a desktop (windows 7 with ACR122 NFC Reader) via NFC. I have tried to do it using the P2P mode but i didn't find a way to read those information using the NFC reader.
And since it'is possible for the NFC to reader to reader MiFare NFC card , I need some help to know how is possible to emulate MiFare Card?
Which ROM enable NFC Card Emulation ? And how To Do it ?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wanted to do the same thing some time ago, but found out that without access to the NFC secure element in the nexus s, this is not possible. Apparently, the 2.3.5 updated for the nexus s 4G has access to the NFC secure element... cant confirm this because I dont have one..
Any updates on this?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using XDA App
i use an access card to get into the office at my workplace. would be cool if i could clone my card, however i dont think that is possible (security reasons). However if i had admin write the data to my nexus s NFC im sure it would be possible
Access to the SE is VERY limited. There is no public access to the SE currently.
AFAIK full Card Emulation is not in the SDK either (and may not be from an API perspective). Google in the past has cited issues with replication of all card technologies as well as lack of existing standards for emulation. They prefer to fall back on NDEF push at the API level. There is a bit of card emu stuff in the code base, but that may be related solely to payments / loyalty cards and it's not in the public API.
Thanks krohnjw - I was waiting for you to chime in. Keep us informed, if you don't mind.
Would be nice to get my transit pass on my phone...
I answered to this question on this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1443624
Just read this article
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=16659
The interesting thing is that they must have been using the hidden API to be able to use card emulation.
From my experience with hotel nfc cards they often are Mifare UltraLight cards.
Maybe they are giving out special phones using a custom ROM made by samsung that has this enabled.
I'm currently checking the 4.1 sources to see if anything can be done with that.
So what do you guys think about this? If someone with access to this phone could dump the rom it could be easily checked with the current S3 and see the diff.
This is interesting but I think we will have to wait. The article says only 40 VIPs will get it to start, the odds of any of them dumping the the ROM is slim to none.
Fredro said:
Just read this article
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=16659
The interesting thing is that they must have been using the hidden API to be able to use card emulation.
From my experience with hotel nfc cards they often are Mifare UltraLight cards.
Maybe they are giving out special phones using a custom ROM made by samsung that has this enabled.
I'm currently checking the 4.1 sources to see if anything can be done with that.
So what do you guys think about this? If someone with access to this phone could dump the rom it could be easily checked with the current S3 and see the diff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have the Holiday Inn app on their phone, as shown on Engadget. I think there are already apps that let you copy NFC card data to your phone.
Product F(RED) said:
They have the Holiday Inn app on their phone, as shown on Engadget. I think there are already apps that let you copy NFC card data to your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed copying the card is no problem, though it's the ability to use the phone to emulate the card that is interesting
Fredro said:
Indeed copying the card is no problem, though it's the ability to use the phone to emulate the card that is interesting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All it does is transmit what was copied on the card via NFC. But in my experience most hotels don't use NFC yet; they still use magnetic strip cards, which by the way can still be easily copied. Just because they're encrypted doesn't mean you can't just copy the raw encrypted data to another card. Check this out:
Product F(RED) said:
All it does is transmit what was copied on the card via NFC. But in my experience most hotels don't use NFC yet; they still use magnetic strip cards, which by the way can still be easily copied. Just because they're encrypted doesn't mean you can't just copy the raw encrypted data to another card. Check this out:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been to several new hotels which indeed use NFC Ultralight cards.
I'm saying that, to be able to use this data you've copied from a card onto your phone, you need to be able to make the phone emulate the same card as the one you copied from. And that is the interesting part.
I'm working on a patch for 4.1.1 (galaxy nexus) that will enable this option, same as the phones used at this olympic hotel.
Google Wallet works in the same way, doesn't it? Card emulation is built into Android, but for an application (like Google Wallet) to use it, it must hold the access keys to the secure element.
Samsung controls the secure element in the S3; writing an application that can access the secure element is no problem for them.
Also, someone above said something about just copying the 'raw data' from an 'encrypted' card. You'll need access keys to access the data stored in each sector, so I doubt that would work.
LoveNFC said:
Google Wallet works in the same way, doesn't it? Card emulation is built into Android, but for an application (like Google Wallet) to use it, it must hold the access keys to the secure element.
Samsung controls the secure element in the S3; writing an application that can access the secure element is no problem for them.
Also, someone above said something about just copying the 'raw data' from an 'encrypted' card. You'll need access keys to access the data stored in each sector, so I doubt that would work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, it's correct that samsung has control over who has access to it, but it's easy to "add yourself" if you patch the software.
About the keys for each sector, this is no problem because the ultralight cards dont use any encryption, even for the classic cards the protection is broken. So this doesn't really matter, the point is that people should be able to create their own cards inside the phone for their own usage for example.
Fredro said:
I've been to several new hotels which indeed use NFC Ultralight cards.
I'm saying that, to be able to use this data you've copied from a card onto your phone, you need to be able to make the phone emulate the same card as the one you copied from. And that is the interesting part.
I'm working on a patch for 4.1.1 (galaxy nexus) that will enable this option, same as the phones used at this olympic hotel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please kindly let me know if you succeed in patching the galaxy nexus, as I really want to use my phone as a nfc to open my building entrance door!
any. outhosur
Fredro said:
yes, it's correct that samsung has control over who has access to it, but it's easy to "add yourself" if you patch the software.
About the keys for each sector, this is no problem because the ultralight cards dont use any encryption, even for the classic cards the protection is broken. So this doesn't really matter, the point is that people should be able to create their own cards inside the phone for their own usage for example.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes I totally no idea why RFID card or NFC tag emulation so complicated.
fordiy said:
Sometimes I totally no idea why RFID card or NFC tag emulation so complicated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cuz of the thousands of geezers who wanna abuse cards or nfs tags
LoveNFC said:
Also, someone above said something about just copying the 'raw data' from an 'encrypted' card. You'll need access keys to access the data stored in each sector, so I doubt that would work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've succesfully copied and cracked a Mifare classic card, thus accessing all the data in the sectors. It took me just over 10 minutes for a single card. But my interest is also, how can I put this card dump file on my phone and let the NFC chip push/emulate this card dump as a Mifare card?
See also http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1706057
Is there any reason it has to be your phone? Could you write the info to a mifare tag, and get the same effect? This would allow you to clone the card to a paper sticker.
sysadmn said:
Is there any reason it has to be your phone? Could you write the info to a mifare tag, and get the same effect? This would allow you to clone the card to a paper sticker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Problem is that you can't change the ID of the card. Most applications check (only) for the ID as it is (falsely) seen by many as unique and unspoofable. So an card emulator able to let you change the ID as handy as a smartphone would be really really nice
nookieman said:
The Problem is that you can't change the ID of the card. Most applications check (only) for the ID as it is (falsely) seen by many as unique and unspoofable. So an card emulator able to let you change the ID as handy as a smartphone would be really really nice
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But this feature is normally not accessible in the phones - partly also because of these reasons.
You would have to obtain keys to the ecure element from the operator or the handset manufacturer and will surely not give it to you if you are not a bank or someone of a similar size
---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------
Perhaps you could also try to use an unofficial ROM, but I am not sure if that solves the problem
In order to emulate MIFARE Ultralight, you need the first UID byte = 0x04. NXP Semiconductors have introduced a restriction in their interface chips such that UID0 is hardwired to 0x08, meaning "random UID" according to their specifications. So even if hidden Android API get released, it will still not be possible to use the phone itself for MIFARE Ultralight tag emulation. However, EMUTAG emulator on emutag.com totally solves the problem by being portable, and can emulate any UID with almost no restrictions* (see Manual).
yeah its right.. i agree with you
Hi there,
right now I am researching for a possibility to emulate a smartcard with a smartphone. As we all know, the standard os and api won't let us do this. What I want to achieve is create a way to use the smartphone for physical access without the need to change the existing infrastructure. o achieve that, the smart phones gets a localy and time limited informationtoken it should present to the reader. In other words, I actually dont realy need access to the secure element, as any data would be temporary.
Right now I am a bit confused about this. Is there a way to use card emulation, without the need of a secure element? I have searched for different ways to acchieve this, but on many ends, I can't seem to find a definitv answer.
For example I stumbled on OpenNFC. They praise that they can acchieve card emulation. Yet, they don't provide any examples on this and fail to actualy deliver some sort of information on the requirements of this. As I understand it, it seems like this method only works when the smartphone uses Inside Secures Chips MicroRead or SecuRead. Anyone knows more about this?
I'm realy open to ideas on this one, as it seems theres little to no documentation or examples to go on.
I'd realy be happy to read about what you guys found out on this issue as of yet.
I've been looking into it too. This is what I have found:
EddieLeeDefcon20.pdf
nfcproxy
(Google them, I can't post links)
So, yeah, it can be done, but you have to modify android to be able to.
I ended up to OpenNFC too, but no sample code!
I have a good background on Mifare Classic 1K and 4K programming using RFM130 under linux and win.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Ok, so after browsing the mailinglist like a maniac I found this answer from one of OpenNFCs developers:
Hello,
The OpenNFC stack porting on Android complies to the Google API, as far as the applications are concerned.
Since these API do not allow an APK to do card emulation, it is not possible to use this mode on the Nexus,
nor on any Android phone, with or without OpenNFC.
However, OpenNFC provides card emulation feature for other porting (Win32, linux), depending on the hardware capabilities.
Kind regards,
Stephane
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source is on their mailing list on sourceforge, cant post link....
So seems we can forget this one... Only option would be using the Cyanogenmod patch that is used by NFCProxy.
When this message has been posted? I think things has changed (not sure)
Anyway, I posted a message yesterday to have more informations about their projects on Android
The Message is from March 29th, 2012.
Again as I said, if that has changed, they really have to work on their communication to the outside. There seems to be noone but the devs that can say anything about this. And that means quite a lot.
When there is no API for something, we can use native code and directly communicate to NFC hardware. Agree?
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Well, the way I understand it is, that we could take a build of android and tinker with it to get it to work. We would have to change the NFC softwarestack and its interaction with the rest of the system in order to make software emulation possible. That is quite some pile of nontrivial work to do if you ask me.
Sorry for doing a new reply instead of editing the old one, but I think this is interesting enoug to not get overread.
I got an answer from the OpenNFC Developerteam regarding my question. Part of my question was also if it was possible to emulate for example a Mifare Tag through their NFC Stack. Here is the answer:
Hello XXXXX,
The Open NFC stack is designed to be largely hardware-independent, with a small adaptation module (NAL) for each hardware chipset. However, currently we only provide the NAL module for the MicroRead / Securead chipsets; therefore out of the box we are only compatible with these chipsets.
It is possible to emulate ISO 14443-4A and -4B cards and Type 4 tags from the Open NFC stack; for emulation of MiFare Tag, you’d indeed need to use a Secure Element.
Best regards,
Sebastien.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hope this clears some questions regarding OpenNFC.
I've been looking into NFC card emulation on Android and have done some pretty thorough Googling.
As far as I understand, some modifications were made way back in Android 2.3 by another XDA member. Later on, a more complete framework for emulation was made by adding PCD tag types to Cyanogen 9.1+, enabling emulation in a semi-supported way for those running Cyanogen. With the latest versions of Android, it seems like Google has semi-official support for card emulation through the com.android.nfc_extras class.
My main questions: are there any useful apps out there that take advantage of this? Does this semiofficial API work with the Nexus 4 / GS4, which use a different NFC chip (non-NXP) from all other Android phones? Does this, perhaps, enable easy card emulation for assorted cards like Blackberry has had for a while?
Your not the only one trying to figure the problem of NFC emulation on Android devices,
From what I've been been able to conclude so far:
1) Stock versions of Android don't support smart card emulation
2) The NFC libraries that the Stock versions of Android do not contain smart card emulation libraries (as you mentioned the ISOPcdA and ISOPcdB classes)
3) Of the NFC chipsets out on the market right now, not all NFC chipsets have a Secure Element
4) There are only three (as far as I know) Android application that utilize the NFC Chipsets for contactless money transactions (Google Wallet, ISIS Mobile Wallet and Simply Tapp)
Some technical background stuff on the Secure Element
1) The Secure Element is not directly accessed from the Android Operating system, but an applications ability to access the secure element is dependent upon the proper keys (public/private keys), where the manufacturer holds the master key for access
2) When the proper key(s) is/are entered the application writes some code into the memory of the Secure Element. To prevent a brute force attack, after several incorrect password attempts, access to the Secure Element is permanently disabled
3) When the Application needs the Secure Element, what could be assumed as a vector is preformed within the Android operating system that requests the code stored on the Secure Element to execute
4) Early adopters of Google Wallet faced the possibility of borking the Secure Element if they did not deattach Wallet before preforming an Android System update (from what I've read AFAIK, Google has since moved to a cloud storage of the needed keys)
From the business perspective:
1) Only one Major US Cell Carrier, Sprint, officially supports Google Wallet
2) The other three carriers, AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon refuses to allow Google Wallet to be installed on their devices, instead forcing users to use ISIS Mobile Wallet
3) Speculation is that these three carriers may have wanted a monetary kickback for transactions
Looking at the reviews for ISIS Mobile Wallet, majority of them are poor reviews with a handful easily citing the actions of these three as anti-competitive. There where also reports of a poor supporting backbone, inability of specialized SIM cards that contain a secure element (access to the NFC is done via a decitated wire or wire pair link), and non-compatibility even with the official hardware needed. Back in May Verizon was quoted as blocking Google Wallet due to needed access to the Secure Element, yet has no problem with ISIS accessing it (http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/16/google-wallet-rolls-out-to-more-devices-nope-still-no-love-for-verizon-att-or-t-mobile-owners/) From a good faith perspective of these action, I recently submitted a concern of anti-trust to the US Department of Justice.
You mentioned the NFC emulation in CM 9.1 + . To extend upon the post mentioned, other developers continued down that path to improve the code. As a good reference, this blog link does provide some technical info about the emulation (http://nelenkov.blogspot.com/2012/10/emulating-pki-smart-card-with-cm91.html). Doug Yeager, one who holds several patents in NFC technology ended up writing the ISOPcdA and ISOPcdB classes with official incorporation into CM 9.1 + (git link, https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_frameworks_base/tree/ics/core/java/android/nfc/tech). Yeager and his business partner Ted Fifelski (coming from the Point of Sale sector), both wanting to create a more open NFC environment created Simply Tapp (http://www.simplytapp.com/about.html). Simply Tapp also stores the keys remotely. As of right now, there has been no reported cases of the cell carriers blocking Simply Tapps' data connection.
Because the frameworks of the manufacturers variants of the Android Operating system are closed source, difficulty has been encountered trying to add these classes. To try and remove this barrier, I ended up submitted an enhancement ticket to try and get Google to add this code (http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=56509) with what appears to be a positive response.
Hopefully this information helps you out seeing the current situation with NFC emulation,
Joe
Thanks
This information is very useful it's a shame there is not a simple way or at least a better way to emulate any NFC Forum defined tag hopefully google will make aviable in it's Android SDK a way to emulate a NFC tag
luisrojito said:
This information is very useful it's a shame there is not a simple way or at least a better way to emulate any NFC Forum defined tag hopefully google will make aviable in it's Android SDK a way to emulate a NFC tag
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only viable way (I'm concluded) to get NFC to move beyond a novelty to a truly respectable standard is to adapt the technology to devices that are not subject to the polices of the cellular carriers ( I have a concept, but I don't want to disclose too much at this point in the brainstorming)
Sending an email to NXP semiconductor about the access to the secure element resulted in a reply directed me to their product page http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/reader_ics/nfc_contactless_reader_ics/ (link working as of 2013-08-07).
EDIT: In addition to the above the following links may also help us out:
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/authentication/
Smart Card ICs (Integrated circuits not ice cream sandwich)
-Landing Page
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/smart_card_ics/
-Fast Pay secure Contactless Payment
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/smart_card_ics/fastpay_secure_contactless_payment/
-MIFARE Smart Card ICs
--Landing Page
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/smart_card_ics/mifare_smart_card_ics/
--SmarteID
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/smart_card_ics/smarteid/
--SmartMX contact interface controllers
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/smart_card_ics/smartmx_contact_interface_controllers/
--SmartMX dual interface controllers
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/smart_card_ics/smartmx_dual_interface_controllers/
--SmartMX2
http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/smart_card_ics/smartmx2/
From http://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html#44-hce
New NFC capabilities through Host Card Emulation
Android 4.4 introduces new platform support for secure NFC-based transactions through Host Card Emulation (HCE), for payments, loyalty programs, card access, transit passes, and other custom services. With HCE, any app on an Android device can emulate an NFC smart card, letting users tap to initiate transactions with an app of their choice — no provisioned secure element (SE) in the device is needed. Apps can also use a new Reader Mode to act as readers for HCE cards and other NFC-based transactions.
Android HCE emulates ISO/IEC 7816 based smart cards that use the contactless ISO/IEC 14443-4 (ISO-DEP) protocol for transmission. These cards are used by many systems today, including the existing EMVCO NFC payment infrastructure. Android uses Application Identifiers (AIDs) as defined in ISO/IEC 7816-4 as the basis for routing transactions to the correct Android applications.
Apps declare the AIDs they support in their manifest files, along with a category identifier that indicates the type of support available (for example, "payments"). In cases where multiple apps support the same AID in the same category, Android displays a dialog that lets the user choose which app to use.
When the user taps to pay at a point-of-sale terminal, the system extracts the preferred AID and routes the transaction to the correct application. The app reads the transaction data and can use any local or network-based services to verify and then complete the transaction.
Android HCE requires an NFC controller to be present in the device. Support for HCE is already widely available on most NFC controllers, which offer dynamic support for both HCE and SE transactions. Android 4.4 devices that support NFC will include Tap & Pay for easy payments using HCE.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shouldn't this mean devices like the nexus 7 (2013) without a secure element should be able use Google wallet for NFC payments? I heard somewhere that the nexus 5 uses the same chip as the nexus 7 (2013)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Big_Red77 said:
Shouldn't this mean devices like the nexus 7 (2013) without a secure element should be able use Google wallet for NFC payments? I heard somewhere that the nexus 5 uses the same chip as the nexus 7 (2013)
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does indeed.
What about the AT&T HTC One?
From some general research I did earlier this year with NFC being used for contactless payments, there were three different means of implementation; a) the Secure Element on the NFC chipset itself (Google Wallet), b) The secure element on the SIM card with a SWP link (used by ISIS Mobile wallet) and c) Secure Element Emulation via the cloud (Simply Tapp)
for a) the problem dealt with the fact that for some reason(s) three of the four major United States Cellular Carriers (AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon) would not provide Google with the required TSM (Trusted service management) credentials to access the protected memory of the secure element. It was suggested that because of the time invested prior to actual availability, the above carriers elected to adopt their own standard to implementing the secure element.
for b) The sim cards used by GSM carriers were developed with the secure element onboard. The problem that was experienced dealt with the limited availability of special sim cards (only two markets had them, Salt Lake City and Austin) as well as the poor support and backbone to the system, leaving most users calling foul on the carriers abuse of power (a personal attempt at contacting the FTC about a possible obligopy resulted in that is not).
the concept of c) was approached by Doug Yeager and Ted Fifelski, both of whom are more than knowledgeable with the POS and NFC markets. Instead of requiring the secure element hardware on the device, emulate it by using the cloud. As previously mentioned the libraries in the Android operating system did not include smart/host card emulation. Doug Yeager then created and had merged into the CyangenmodRom builds 9.1 + the open source IsoPCDA and IsoPCDB libraries.
Looking up on NFC World, Google collaborated with Simply Tapp to officially bring HCE into the 4.4 http://www.nfcworld.com/2013/10/31/326619/google-gets-around-carriers-host-card-emulation-nfc-payments/
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what I was wondering as well... tried endlessly searching apps or even figuring out how to do it on my own.Everything was a dead-end, always returning to that damned secure element. Does anyone know if there's any hope?
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 for TJ's question, I'd love to ditch the corporate RFID tag and use my phone. I mean if it's really going to be a wallet replacement, that's one of the things in my wallet.
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I'm wondering that same. My senior project is due in 3 weeks and I build a "door unlocker" based off NFC tags. The NFC shield on an Arduino reads a tag and unlocks a door. I have a Nexus 5 and would love to be able to emulate a tag and use it to open a door.
Android 4.4 NFC HCE demo app
Please have a look at this article: blog.opendatalab.de/hack/2013/11/07/android-host-card-emulation-with-acr122/
An Android sample project that use NFC HCE is available here: github.com/grundid/host-card-emulation-sample
Any updates for this? Really looking forward to using my phone as a replacement for transit cards.
Bump? I would really like an emulation app.
TjPhysicist said:
Does this mean I can, with the proper app and so on, "emulate" NFC tags (or at least some types of NFC tags/cards)? Does anyone plan on making an app to do just this...'record' and 'emulate' nfc tags/cards of supported types (not just 'credit cards')?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Host card emulation is not to emulate NFC tags but make payment through NFC possible with Google Wallet even without a secure element chip. The devices technically could be a NFC tags (think about it, android beam can go both directions so the device beams to the other devices which acts KIND of like a tag).
NFC tags are cheap anyway so what's the need to try to emulate them? You can program them from the phone.
tiny4579 said:
Host card emulation is not to emulate NFC tags but make payment through NFC possible with Google Wallet even without a secure element chip. The devices technically could be a NFC tags (think about it, android beam can go both directions so the device beams to the other devices which acts KIND of like a tag).
NFC tags are cheap anyway so what's the need to try to emulate them? You can program them from the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought hce allows for the phone to emulate a NFC card, for example, a transit card.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Sfkn2 said:
I thought hce allows for the phone to emulate a NFC card, for example, a transit card.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's for payments strictly. It emulates a payment card and I think the android implementation is strictly for Google wallet. I'm not sure the transit systems would use Google wallet or not. Maybe they do.
tiny4579 said:
It's for payments strictly. It emulates a payment card and I think the android implementation is strictly for Google wallet. I'm not sure the transit systems would use Google wallet or not. Maybe they do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, KitKat "supports emulating cards that are based on the NFC-Forum ISO-DEP specification (based on ISO/IEC 14443-4)...". This is a standard for Identification cards used for payments but also could be used for other use cases. Android 4.4 also supports different HCE service groups "Category_PAYMENT" and "Category_OTHER" , so I wouldn´t say it´s strictly for payments! (Although, I think, your right, that´s the main purpose Google had in mind by implementing this emulation feature ...)
Doesn´t mean that you could "clone" your (or your neighbors) company badge or transit card and use your android device instead, but that´s a completely different story.
-Psycho- said:
This is what I was wondering as well... tried endlessly searching apps or even figuring out how to do it on my own.Everything was a dead-end, always returning to that damned secure element. Does anyone know if there's any hope?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No hope, secure elements are secure by design. You can't download them wihout hacking the card. In most cases, this is just as complicated as hacking into someone's bank account.
Sorry but that is the reason why we trust these cards in the first place.
ascsa said:
Doesn´t mean that you could "clone" your (or your neighbors) company badge or transit card and use your android device instead, but that´s a completely different story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although that would be awesome..
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Stupid question, but if the secure element isn't necessary anmyore, is Google wallet now secure enough?
I mean, Google kind of used this for a reason I presume before, I know why they got rid of it, but is this risky or not? Because I haven't heard people discussing this side yet.
Also, what other payment services may work with this once they support it (if ever), ISIS? Paypass?
Axe Homeless said:
Stupid question, but if the secure element isn't necessary anmyore, is Google wallet now secure enough?
I mean, Google kind of used this for a reason I presume before, I know why they got rid of it, but is this risky or not? Because I haven't heard people discussing this side yet.
Also, what other payment services may work with this once they support it (if ever), ISIS? Paypass?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A few months ago, a Google patent application surfaced that explains some details of how they did it.
1) Previously, PIN entry to GW did not require a network connection - it only unlocked the SE. Now, you cannot unlock Wallet without a network connection. Also, PINs used to be device-specific but are now common to all devices on your Wallet account
2) The patent application references creation of a virtual card that is geographically and time-restricted
So pretty much, I think what happens is that when you unlock Wallet now, it creates a "virtual" card that is restricted to the unlock timeout in time and to some sort of geographic limitations.