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Ever since going from MyFroyo RC4 to RC5 & RC6 (and even the Cyanogen RC01, I have had problems with my wifi.
I am posting here to see if anyone else is experiencing these problems, and to find out what changed between RC4 and RC5.
I have no cell service at my house, so when I flash a new ROM, I need to leave the house and go to an area where I get service before I can connect to the Google Servers to set up my device. When on Wifi, I also have problems downloading Google items in the market (such as Google Search Bar) and can't even use Google.com to search for anything. It times out. I can, however, use other websites and download other items (once I've set up my device remotely).
If I am setting this up over Edge or 3G, there are never any problems.
If I re-flash back to MyFroyo RC4, I can use my wifi with no problem to do everything I need.
I really love the updates since RC4 - but am worried that I'll be left in the dust since all the builds since RC4 have had this issue for me. :-/
I'm in the same boat and experience the same WiFi issues.
Sent from my HTC mytouch slide using XDA App
I've never had a single Wifi issue, although I never really tested on RC1 too much. I'm currently running Eugene's newest CM6, have you tried that one yet?
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using XDA App
supposed to be a cyanogenmod issue though i havent experienced it myself (i also have horrible service 1-2 bars edge max) using wifi everything loads up fast and everything downloads just fine! but if i were you i would try the nightlies they are supposed to have fixed the problem by now if im not mistaken
I've experienced a lot of this too. Marker downloads were pretty much not happening for me, no matter what - Wifi or Data. On data, it would download but never install. On Wifi no images in the market would load and no download would activate. I also couldn't use Google.com or sign into Gmail via the browser or other Google services. I did a lot of searching and heard it could be Google.
What I did to fix it... I did some nandroids, I did some wipes and updates and complete formats, etc. What I finally think I had was a problem in my packages.xml file where so many programs were mismatched due to Froyo's ability to use apps2fat32. I think at some point some nandroiding I had done,etc screwed up my package assignments and then I just fresh installed and DO NOT BACK DATA/SETTINGS UP WITH GOOGLE! haha, I honestly think that had a lot to do with it also...Go into your Privacy and turn auto restore off, turn backup data off, then reset your device with a wipe of it all and such, boot up and don't select backup with Google. I've had no more issues really.
TJD319 said:
I've experienced a lot of this too. Marker downloads were pretty much not happening for me, no matter what - Wifi or Data. On data, it would download but never install. On Wifi no images in the market would load and no download would activate. I also couldn't use Google.com or sign into Gmail via the browser or other Google services. I did a lot of searching and heard it could be Google.
What I did to fix it... I did some nandroids, I did some wipes and updates and complete formats, etc. What I finally think I had was a problem in my packages.xml file where so many programs were mismatched due to Froyo's ability to use apps2fat32. I think at some point some nandroiding I had done,etc screwed up my package assignments and then I just fresh installed and DO NOT BACK DATA/SETTINGS UP WITH GOOGLE! haha, I honestly think that had a lot to do with it also...Go into your Privacy and turn auto restore off, turn backup data off, then reset your device with a wipe of it all and such, boot up and don't select backup with Google. I've had no more issues really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've actually tried the new nightly's and still have the same problems. I've also tried completely wiping it and starting from scratch- and made sure not to back up w/ GOOGLE servers- but to no avail.
I wonder if anyone on here can figure out what changed between MyFroyo RC4 and RC5 that could cause this - seems something is blocking the Google Synch. I've also experienced the problems mentioned above regarding the market items not downloading, no images, etc. Just seems weird that it worked completely fine before RC5, which came out around the same time as the Cyanogen 6 Slide RC1
From my personal experience I'd have to say that wifi is slightly bugged. Drops randomly and occassionally won't detect my network when other Android devices will (any encryption, which is for suckers anyway )
At least I know I'm not the only one w/ this problem. I couldn't find a cyanogen defect for this issue.
Same here. I have no wifi. My g1 connects just fine and my hd2 but on the slide its a no go. Ive tried everything but eventually just gave up. Im using Eugenes Ota update. Im not sure if its just the slide in general but my wifi doesn't work period. It'll connect but if i load up youtube or try the web I get a no connection error. Its very peculiar. Incredibly peculiar.
I am having the same issue. I noticed people talked about it with CM6 rc1 but not everyone was having the issue and the subject died off. Ive tried reloading, wiping everything, htcclay's new version but nothing seems to help. The wifi is just strange will work for a page or two than fail to load or loads half way. Also tried on several different networks. Does anyone know if the driver is the same in eugenes as in these later ones?
After wiping and keeping a good eye on everything, the issue I have with Wifi and the browser is that sometimes it just hangs about 75% page load and doesn't really change unless I leave the phone go for a bit and wait for it to load.
Downloaded Opera Mini (only browser I could find that doesn't use the native browser). With Opera, I've actually hadn't had any loading issues or anything weird like that happen. So many a possible partial-bypass is using another browser? It helped me, just thought I'd share.
acejoker25000 said:
supposed to be a cyanogenmod issue though i havent experienced it myself (i also have horrible service 1-2 bars edge max) using wifi everything loads up fast and everything downloads just fine! but if i were you i would try the nightlies they are supposed to have fixed the problem by now if im not mistaken
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WesGarner is looking into this problem with...
the wifi issues.. asap he's juggling this and vibrant please be patient i've spoken to wes myself and he's told me when he has the time this will be one thing he looks into
I 2nd this, my friend...
r0man said:
From my personal experience I'd have to say that wifi is slightly bugged. Drops randomly and occassionally won't detect my network when other Android devices will (any encryption, which is for suckers anyway )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same bugginess happening here, too. Iffy, at best. Other than that and of course the non-necessary FN and CAPS light, this is the only issue, anymore, that I can see.
Virus1x said:
WesGarner is looking into this problem with...
the wifi issues.. asap he's juggling this and vibrant please be patient i've spoken to wes myself and he's told me when he has the time this will be one thing he looks into
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the update - I look forward to the day when I can use the wifi AND a camera MyFroyo RC4 is still working well for me, but I miss my camera
Does anyone know if there is any headway in fixing this issue?
DenominatorX said:
Does anyone know if there is any headway in fixing this issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not to knowledge
Post logcats to Pastebin and/or the issue tracker so Wes has more data on the issue.
r0man said:
Post logcats to Pastebin and/or the issue tracker so Wes has more data on the issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with what logcats or pastebin is - If anyone can point me to an issue tracker, I'd be glad to oblige.
HebrewToYou said:
If anyone is having issues with the Android Market over wifi, please post a logcat of the issue along with the relevant details over at the CM6 issue tracker. We're trying to pin down this annoying bug. Here is a link to the issue:
http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/detail?id=2153
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe this is the right place...
donkey72 said:
I believe this is the right place...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx donkey72!
I'm referring to the inability to sign in to Google Talk or download Market apps when connected via the Sprint network, as described here:
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=815345
To summarize... When connected using Sprint 3G, I often get these problems
- Can't sign in to Google Talk (I get the message "Cannot connect to server, will retry shortly"
- Can't download or update apps (I get stuck on "Starting Download...")
- Other internet features work OK
- Switching to Wifi solves the problem
no problems at all for me
why is this here ?? should be in
Q&A
and no im not
Yeah just started today though?
Sent from my Airborne rEVOlution.
Not as much problems as you're having posting in the right section.
BOOOOOO-YAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
lol......j/k.....I couldn't help it. To answer your question: No, I haven't. All my rom/kernel/software info is in the sig. I've had an update/download hang on "starting download" before, but I'll just cancel the download and restart it and that usually fixes the hiccup. If not, it's nothing a quick reboot won't fix. Try clearing the data and cache from the market app.
P.S. If switching to WiFi solves the issue, it could be poor reception that is causing the said problems to happen. I get very poor 3G reception in the building I work in, and many things have problems working when I'm not on WiFi.
I have this problem as well. If you do find a solution, let us know! I've had this problem for a while now but could not pinpoint when it began. I know I didn't have this problem on 2.1 though. Definitely not due to weak signal (Chicago).
FluShot said:
I have this problem as well. If you do find a solution, let us know! I've had this problem for a while now but could not pinpoint when it began. I know I didn't have this problem on 2.1 though. Definitely not due to weak signal (Chicago).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Were you running 2.1 on the same device?
And, I'm guessing you were rooted both with 2.1 and 2.2, right?
rugedraw said:
Not as much problems as you're having posting in the right section.
BOOOOOO-YAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
lol......j/k.....I couldn't help it. To answer your question: No, I haven't. All my rom/kernel/software info is in the sig. I've had an update/download hang on "starting download" before, but I'll just cancel the download and restart it and that usually fixes the hiccup. If not, it's nothing a quick reboot won't fix. Try clearing the data and cache from the market app.
P.S. If switching to WiFi solves the issue, it could be poor reception that is causing the said problems to happen. I get very poor 3G reception in the building I work in, and many things have problems working when I'm not on WiFi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omg.. classic response. job well done sir. i am still laughing.
+1 on the advice too
uninstalling the market update usually solves the problem for good. Ive noticed it on hybrid fr83/91 roms as well
rooted with fresh and kingkernel 10 and have had apps hanging after downloading and wont install/update...
I had those problems for a while a couple days ago. They said it was a network problem. It resolved after about 8 hours.
No problems here. Using 135 nightly.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
I was having no problems at all for a while but yesterday market downloads over wifi no longer work for me. Everything downloads fine over 3G just not wifi. Weird. If anybody knows how to fix this I would be eternally grateful.
Sent from my addiction using XDA App
Go under applications and clear data for vending...sometimes files get crossed. Will fix market problem
I don't have anything called vending in applications
this is a known problem and has been for months....
usually if you uninstall the market updagte the problem goes away for good.
also try a non hybrid rom thats not based on fr83/91
fresh, evervolv, cm, evo nonsense work
I've had this exact problem for a while now. Its incredibly annoying. What usually works for me is stopping both talk and market then clearing the date and doing the same with the HTC_checkin service.
This usually lets me download the app but not always. I haven't tried uninstalling market updates, will that remove any features like the search prediction and such?
zikronix said:
this is a known problem and has been for months....
usually if you uninstall the market updagte the problem goes away for good.
also try a non hybrid rom thats not based on fr83/91
fresh, evervolv, cm, evo nonsense work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was having the problem with Fresh too. I just installed the new stock deodexed 3.30.651.2 ROM, and I'm STILL experiencing the issue. Very annoying!
a friend and i are having the same problem except she never has a problem connecting to gchat. but when shes not signed in it she's not able to download apps from the market place.
me on the other hand there are times when i cant sign on gtalk at all, i'd either have to restart the phone or switch to wifi like the op said. oh and i'm also unable to download apps when i'm not signed in gchat.
this gets especially annoying when i'm in a middle of a conversation in gchat and i lose connection and cant log back on! and i hate using 3rd party messengers since there arent any good ones out! but trillian is starting to creep up on me.
oh i'm also rooted with fresh
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=21445390
Anyone want to test it out?
Korey_Nicholson said:
Anyone want to test it out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I nominate you!
Korey_Nicholson said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=21445390
Anyone want to test it out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Already testing... I was already getting good GPS results on the EL29 ROM I built (even indoors). This mod is really just another gps.conf edit.
I installed the mod over an hour ago, reset agps data, rebooted and got a pretty quick lock (indoors) immediately. I just tried again and it's not getting a lock at all. I think I'll go back to the original gps.conf and see if it locks properly.
Update: After reverting back to the original gps.conf, clearing agps data, and rebooting, I got a lock in 5-6 seconds. I think part of the issue is that this is now hitting "derekgordon.com" instead of the regular GPS servers. This mod was sent out to the interwebs and I'm sure there are TONS of people installing. I'm not sure if the server is overloaded or whatnot, but I don't want to rely on someone's private website for my Navigation and other GPS needs.
Code:
NTP_SERVER=ntp.derekgordon.com
AGPS=http://derekgordon.com/gps-files/bin/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://derekgordon.com/gps-files/bin/xtra.bin
-Daryel
daryelv said:
Update: After reverting back to the original gps.conf, clearing agps data, and rebooting, I got a lock in 5-6 seconds. I think part of the issue is that this is now hitting "derekgordon.com" instead of the regular GPS servers. This mod was sent out to the interwebs and I'm sure there are TONS of people installing. I'm not sure if the server is overloaded or whatnot, but I don't want to rely on someone's private website for my Navigation and other GPS needs.
Code:
NTP_SERVER=ntp.derekgordon.com
AGPS=http://derekgordon.com/gps-files/bin/xtra.bin
XTRA_SERVER_1=http://derekgordon.com/gps-files/bin/xtra.bin
-Daryel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i already get decent gps as well but this mod has me curious.
i totally agree with you about not wanting to rely on someones personal server.. though only v3+ includes this server. there are older mods that rely on qualcomms servers.
I tried this mod (V3) and it made no difference for me.. I'm afraid my GPS problems are hardware related, I've tried almost every 'fix' available.
Well it probably has to be manipulated to work with our device. The file is for the international sgs2
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
ker0zene said:
I tried this mod (V3) and it made no difference for me.. I'm afraid my GPS problems are hardware related, I've tried almost every 'fix' available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...i wish u didnt say that...because my gps is fukked...i was hoping this patch would fix it but if i end up being in the same boat as you where its a hardware problem ill just take it into sprint...i havent done it yet partially because i am hopeful that i can fix it too lazy to go and scared they r gunna find out i rooted my phone even tho ill rest it back to stock
I'm getting my hardware replacement this Friday. I've done everything from scripts, to gps drivers, nothing is consistent. Even reverting back to stock didn't do anything.
Hopefully it will fix it.
I tested this today. Before the fix I couldn't get more than 3 satellites in GPS Status, after the fix I got 9.
Also noticed that while navigating I could get a lock in under a minute instead of 5+ minutes before the fix.
Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk HD
Mine is stuck on roaming after flashing, weird
Edit: fixed now, no idea what caused it but fine now
Gps crazy fixed now too
loaded the new config file last night and day later it still won't get a lock. i guess this mod isn't for me.
edit: after few reboots it gets lock in under 5 seconds... hope it stays that way
Anyone know if this patch helps at all on ICS ROMs?
-Sent from my CM9 E4GT using Tapatalk
Is it possible for someone to upload the original gps.conf ?
I lost mine after trying many different modes, to get the damn gps working lol.
Here's my stock gps.conf from /etc/
It may help some but I know that some of the phones have bad gps chips in them. My first one did. I had to get it replaced in order to get a gps lock. The first one I had would never see more than 1 sattelite and never lock. Nothing I did or that the sprint techs did could change it so they swapped it out for me.
Hey guys,
I've clicked around a bit but can't seem to find anyone with the same issue, and I went through about 40 pages on Calkulin's ROM but I really don't want to go through all 200 and some if somebody here can provide a solution.
I've used his ROMs for the past year, really fantastic, no complaints at all. I flashed his beta ICS build a few months ago and it worked well with the exception that it would randomly reboot for no apparent reason. I could be in the middle of a text message or it could be sitting on my desk and all of a sudden, reboot. I went back to his old ROM and decided to put off ICS for a few months to work out the bugs. Today I put his newest ICS ROM up and once again, random reboots. It doesn't seem that others are having the same problem so I'm not sure what to make of it. And for the sake of putting it out there, it's always a clean install - Format All, flash modem and ROM.
Anybody have any ideas? Suggestions? Any help is seriously appreciated.
Thanks guys.
Ive heard of someone else having this issue before have you tried a fresh install with a new download of EL29 or EL26? When i have had issuez in the past that could be the culprit try a new download also you could try one of the new kernals posted that may help as well.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
Are you using 4g?? This is a known issue with leaving 4g enabled.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
It is a known issue that if the hacked Hotspot is installed and you are running on 4G that you will experience random reboots. Mijjah74 has implemented a fix for it in his ROMs and it is beginning to go out among the other developers as well.
Until your developer implements the fix the cure is to not use 4G.
Awesome, thanks a ton. What a goofy bug. Yes I frequently use 4g, hourly even, and although I rarely use the hot spot, it is installed. I wonder if un installing it would fix the issue.
Thanks again.
Any idea if using am older modem would fix it?
iJoshh said:
Awesome, thanks a ton. What a goofy bug. Yes I frequently use 4g, hourly even, and although I rarely use the hot spot, it is installed. I wonder if un installing it would fix the issue.
Thanks again.
Any idea if using am older modem would fix it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, reinstalling won't help. I was testing 4g for this and (for me at least) it would reboot at about exactly the 1 hr mark if 4g is running constantly. Pretty strange but it did it several times in a row that way. I think someone said that they have the timing down pretty well and I can't recall exactly what the recommendation was, turn 4g off and back on right before it's going to reboot (you should time yours to see when it does it). Something like that.
Addendum: FYI, I'm running stock EL29 modem. A different modem won't change the 4g reboot issue either, sorry.
I had random reboots on every ROM. I went all the way back to stock unrooted, and started back over. Haven't has any issues since.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Hey. I flashed task's AOKP 8/26 rom and started experiencing strange loading times when on the internet. I just flashed Paranoid Android's rom today and I'm having the same result. SpeedTest app says I only have 40-100ms ping, but takes 5 minutes for it to actually find that data.
It says on the top that I am in '4G'
I don't think it's a throttling issue, I get 20 Mb/s down after speed test finishes
My ping is 95ms, but it takes about 4 or 5 minutes to finish the ping process
I am on the LTE settings that came with my ROM and they are the same as task's as well.
Upload speed is around .84, 4.0, 3.0 MB/s respectively
All Web-browsing, SpeedTest app, Google Music, and Play Store take forever to initially load
Any ideas on what it could be or what I could try? I have tried flashing the latest modem, same result as I had on task's and Paranoid's rom.
I was just about to post a thread on this same issue. Its driving me nuts!
I fist noticed the issue when I flashed from CM9 to CM10. Today I tried task's jb aokp ROM. Same issue. So I flashed cm9, it didn't get any better. Next I'm gonna try Odin back to stock. What's really odd to me is WiFi is unaffected. Only when on 3g/4g.
I've checked my imei, and its still correct. I've tried all 3 available modems.
I'm not to sure what else to try. Hopefully we can come up with a solution.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
I had the same exact issues with tasks ROM and paranoid android too lol.. went back to wanam lite 1.3... the T-Mobile jb leak that was ported to our phone I had no issues with so I don't think it has anything to do with jb but I could be wrong...
Sent from my SGH-I747M using xda app-developers app
crewxp said:
Hey. I flashed task's AOKP 8/26 rom and started experiencing strange loading times when on the internet. I just flashed Paranoid Android's rom today and I'm having the same result. SpeedTest app says I only have 40-100ms ping, but takes 5 minutes for it to actually find that data.
It says on the top that I am in '4G'
I don't think it's a throttling issue, I get 20 Mb/s down after speed test finishes
My ping is 95ms, but it takes about 4 or 5 minutes to finish the ping process
I am on the LTE settings that came with my ROM and they are the same as task's as well.
Upload speed is around .84, 4.0, 3.0 MB/s respectively
All Web-browsing, SpeedTest app, Google Music, and Play Store take forever to initially load
Any ideas on what it could be or what I could try? I have tried flashing the latest modem, same result as I had on task's and Paranoid's rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you all with these issues posted these with the ROMS thread and brainstorm with other users of the ROM? You could try that. I personally heard great things about Task's ROMS and paranoids. To make sure, have you all tried wiping EVERYTHING in recovery and i mean wipe data, cache, dalvik cache, before flashing the ROM? You all might have to do that and then report back.
Sent from my SGSIII with the XDA Premium App
wow, wasn't expecting people with the same issue lol. I checked my Data usage also. Only at 4.1 out of 5 Gigs.
And yes Bruce, thanks for the suggestion. I wipe everything possible before every flash and always have. To the point where I even wipe things twice without realizing. (Cache, Dalvik, storage, system, cache, etc etc, even the eemc).
Tried basic apn settings as well as the 'phone' hdspa+ settings. same issue. reflashed over and over again, problem persists.
AT&T is beginning to work on a major LTE rollout from what I understand. I suspect this is a side effect of preparation. It would be interesting to see what going back to stock does.
Time_Zone said:
AT&T is beginning to work on a major LTE rollout from what I understand. I suspect this is a side effect of preparation. It would be interesting to see what going back to stock does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I thought too but flashing back to stock with Odin seemed to fix it. Problem started after installing 9-02 cm10.
how are you guys doing on this issue?
i flashed back to stock as well and my problems were fixed.
...really want a modded rom though. think it's a cm10 issue?
Same here. Flashed back yo stock because my h+ was behaving like 2g...seems to have helped quite a bit.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
I see similar behavior while stock, have managed to not root and flash yet. Although, in my case it isn't actually 5 minutes, but there's definitely latency, it just doesn't normally show up in the ping time.
A friend with his also at stock (never rooted nor flashed) mentioned he was seeing this as well...
I too have been getting problems. I thought initially that it was due to Task's ROM, but then i went back to CM10. And im still getting these issues. My girlfriend is running AOKP on her SG3 on Tmobile, and she's not getting data issues. Im thinking its a problem with AT&T.
I was about to go back to stock and see how that goes. But since 78c10 says he sees no improvement, then....idk wats going on. =(
stock not rooted. same here.. takes forever for things to load. the connection seems to stall for a bit then kick back in.. has to be something with att not the phone or roms etc..
Having the same issue. Just got done wiping everything and formatting my SD. Still VERY slow. Was going to try stock next.
On task's AOKP.
If anyone finds a solution please post.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda premium
Everyone here should post their issues and location because they've been rolling out LTE here in Philadelphia & it caused a lot of the same issues for me & others. It may be completely unrelated but it's a strange coincidence considering how much work they're doing on LTE right now.
Sent from my SGS3 using Apple's patents
It seems to be hit and miss here I just keep rebooting and then I'll get lucky one time and it will have a snappy data connection lol and its universal so I think its an ATT thing. I have been back and forth between stock, ktoonsez, and cm10 today and it isn't bias. I am in fort Irwin, CA right now and am straddling H and H+ but with solid bars... and sometimes I can't even load xda it will take like 5 minutes but what in really find strange is that I can stream Netflix...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
A few of us in the Houston area are reporting data connection problems (reported in AOKP thread). Someone stated that Houston has been having problems with their LTE network... This would make sense, as i was at a friends house in the heights on Sunday, and we had full bars LTE and neither of us could connect or stream anything data wise. Now, while I'm on latest AOKP, he has a skyrocket, and is running stock ICS... So it has to be the network.
I live in the Woodlands, and ive been having the same issues up here too (just speed tested, & topped out at 9 mb/s - i remember getting upwards of 40 mb/s when I first got this phone). Really starting to piss me off.
Anyone in the Houston area herd anything from AT&T yet?
Sent from my SGS III
Up in Humble, have the same issues. Thought it was something I had done so wiped down everything and flashed tasks from again, then switched to a different one, but saw little improvement. Good to know its at&t maybe and not me screwing something up.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
Just to let everyone know my issue was solved by going back to a 8/25 AOKP flash and whola, perfect again.
I would have to say that its related to the current builds. At least on mine.
dhostetter said:
Just to let everyone know my issue was solved by going back to a 8/25 AOKP flash and whola, perfect again.
I would have to say that its related to the current builds. At least on mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm...tats weird. I wonder if this is really the problem. Has anyone tried this approach?