Related
I have frequented this site over the past few weeks or so and am outright disturbed by the disrespect some "NEW" members are getting. I haven't actually encountered this personally, but as I have read numerous post, I see things that make me want to turn around and split! Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members. Is this really tolerated here? I really hope not because I like the site for the most part. I just refuse to be part of a forum that lets rudeness and disrespect go unattended.
I don't mean to be a bother, but the forum I moderate at would NEVER let this happen. We BAN members for disrespecting one another. I thought that's what I would encounter here as well.
I am not really looking for a response here, just wanted to let someone who cares know what I experienced over the past few weeks here as a new member. Thank you to whomever takes the time and interest to read this.
-Tommy
NOTE TO ALL: DO NOT POST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD! IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED ALREADY. THANKS -Tommy
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm glad to see you guys are aware of this and working to cut down on the rudeness. I myself have told "newer" members to search instead of posting new threads that look like new mods as well. I do like the site though, and will continue to frequent it. I am SOLD on htc's, as I have recently chased a TD2 and love it. I will also be able to contribute new mods as soon as I can get used to the platform.
Thanks again,
-Tommy
tomtommy306 said:
Senior members calling names and being VERY rude to existing and newer members.
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Tommy, I'm someone who felt, 2 years ago, exactly what you describe here. It was always justified as senior members getting tired of volunteering their time to help people -- only to have some new members bypass reading any "sticky threads" or any admonitions to "please read before posting a new thread" (in which tips are provided for how to get answers to frequently asked questions) -- and seemingly never bothering to search at all.
Over the past 2 years I have observed 2 things, trend-wise: (1) Once I gained some decent baseline proficiency in understanding how the basics work re upgrading my phone with new & improved software, I then started to see, as though appearing for the first time (but they were always present) the TONS of repeated questions and downright disrespect some new members had for even following the most basic of protocols -- like -- "please post that at the forum dedicated to your phone model; you can find it here..." generating responses like
"I don't have time for that. I just need to know what HardSPL means and where I can find the latest ROM for my T-Mobile Wing"
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Personally I attribute a HUGE amount of this to the less-than-optimal information design of this site, which sends people back and forth from here to there to a wiki, then searching for acronyms and definitions, then to a sticky thread (MANY OF WHICH ARE NOW OUTDATED AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR), then back to a hacking section, being shouted at that "this isn't for asking questions, moron; this is for contributing software hacks", and eventually generating some dog-chasing-tail experiences for new members. One of the people working his damned hardest to help minimize this is nir36 (SHOUTOUT!) with his excellent GUIDES, and with his patience within the "Questions and Answers" section.
But -- (2) Here's what I have also seen: A huge disruption of culture here at XDA, prompted, I believe, by the mainstreaming of touchscreen phones with the introduction of Apple's iPhone. Two- to three- to four years ago, the people who frequented this site were predominantly hackers who banded together to solve many of the deficiencies of WindowsMobile software, and who shared their expertise knowing that other people's expertise would benefit them and solve annoying problems, or push a certain envelope. There was, as a result, a culture of CONTRIBUTION, vs one of "gimme gimme gimme, I don't have time, just gimme".
I've seen many an essay posted here by veteran members of XDA expressing a real frustration for some of the behaviors caused by the new influx of people seeing tricks and hacks now posted on YouTube, and then discovering XDA, and coming here to "find that and get it onto my device".
This has created a culture clash which is totally understandable from both sides of of the issue. There's more and more abuse of basic rules & process, where, as I said, more people seek to bypass all that rigamaroll and just post wherever it seems to fit, and seek a specific answer about how to get XXX on my device. There are MANY MANY senior members, even veteran senior members who've been here 4-5 years, who still use a soft touch in asking people to "read this FAQ please" or "please post that in THIS forum". But at the same time, when the response to gentle nudges like that is along the lines of "I don't have time for that, I'm in a hurry, and I just need to get this installed", then patience grows thin.
And so yes, of course, you'll see people snapping at one another. But it's born of frustration for the lack of respect of the culture of XDA -- where it had always been part of the quest to have new people work a little at finding answers, not to punish them, but rather to help them connect the dots and see the solutions available to them, and how they often build atop prior work.
Anyway these are my thoughts. I speak only as a member, not as any representative of the site or group of Mods.
I have been looking around quite a bit lately(here @ XDA), and have better feelings about it. There are a lot more helpful and kind people here, then there are rude ones. I guess I was running into a lot of newer members that were being disrespectful to the seniors. I understand the frustrations of members not being appreciative as I see it often where I mod. It does get frustrating when people don't say "please" and "thank you" , but some people must have forgotten what their families have taught them. MANNERS...
I will continue to be around the site.
You ALL do great work here, and I appreciate the time and effort involved.
I rarely ask for help, but I wanted to know it was welcome, just in case.
We are all here for the same thing, and I am very glad to have found XDA to fuel my need.
The site has a great REP, and that means a lot to me.
It was also the reason for concern in the first place.
Thanks again guys,
-Tommy
Note to MODS or ADMINS: PLEASE CLOSE or DELETE THIS THREAD. I am very happy with the responses I have been given, and am happy to be here. The topic will not be brought up again unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
vijay555 said:
At least it's not Howard Forums
Seriously, if you see anything that looks bad, PM a moderator or report the post. We do try to respond.
V
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You got that right.... Howard forums are very out there.
That's where I discovered modding cell phones for the first time.
If any complaints were ever to arise(doubtful), I would communicate via PM only.
Thanks vijay.
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
Drybonz said:
Sounds like somebody called you a noob and you got all flustered and decided to make a thread about it. Hope things get better for you.
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Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
tomtommy306 said:
Actually..... I hadn't even started to post in the forum when I wrote this.
It was from responses like YOURS here, except to other members that made me start this thread. And I had no intention of keeping it going. It was for admins and mods to read.
I'm no noob at any of this. I work as a computer technician for the city I live in. And I moderate at MMUS.us for quite a while now. Tkali & Insecure Spike can vouch for all of this. They mod there too... and have worked with me since I have been there.
AND LASTLY...... WHY DID YOU RESPOND TO A POST DOING EXACTLY WHAT I OPENLY STATED TO DISLIKING?? Disrespectful at the least.
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Well an assumption is an assumption. There is nothing you can do about it if a skeptic has little information to analyze.
To explain the frustrations of the "meanies" here are two situations I come up with:
Situation 1
The problem is that XDA is very likely to be the most visited forum as a technical support forum but stupid idiots are just too stupid to fix their problem when the answer is right there.
Example
For example, I have seen plenty on the Xperia forums in which some dude asks for panels when it is available as a sticky called "panels library" and the links worked at the moment, and yet the he requests for an existing panel.
Situation 2
Someone asks for a Windows Live Messenger download, and he/she says that he "looked everywhere, up and down" ... I tell him that it's easy to find and he isn't really looking ... he defense himself saying that he really did look ... we say o rly?
Example
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=517909
By the way, I declare this a skeleton war, since both of you are likely to argue and you both have skull faces
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
But if a skeleton war is in order...... I have some tattooed on me and am infatuated with them, so I WIN...hahaha
sakshamkatyal said:
I would say, empathise, its not about senior members but about those people who stay a lot on this forum & loves this place too much that they get annoyed when they find someone littering around or violating the rules.
But being a senior member or more so a lover of XDA I would not allow myself to offend anyone's feelings or his/her dignity.
Enjoy & report mods in case you feel something is too offending & the suggestion is going out of context. Cheers
Saksham Katyal
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Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
tomtommy306 said:
Very mature words.... This is what I expect from a forum.
Is that your little girl there..... I read about the tragedy.
Broke my heart into a million pieces!!!
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No its not mine but it was our's.
Even we are stunned with what happened to her in this little age.
get more about her here.
http://www.supportalessandra.com/
I wish you have a nice time over here. Dont worry xda is community inhabited more by mature people fortunately. Or else mods would be always there.
Regards
Saksham Katyal
tomtommy306 said:
I am a 28 year old male with not much to worry about.
Arguing on a Smart_phone/PPC forum is a little too juvenile for myself.
I was merely reading some threads, saw some rudeness.... read some more.... saw some more.
Then asked if the admins were aware.
I didn't expect it to cause such a stir. WOW!
Most people here have seemed rather decent since I posted this, and I expected nothing from XDA, but a place to learn new things.
I'm not really that concerned about it, just wanted to let the admins know my initial experience.
I was never directly disrespected.... The fact is, I haven't asked for help here at all.
I actually answered a few questions and really nothing more.
So, is there really a need to continue this discussion??
Not for me.... but you guys feel free to continue.
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Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
Drybonz said:
Lol... I love this thread. You got upset because you saw some guys tell some noobs to search for stuff instead of starting a new thread, so you get all flustered, start a thread about it and then you get all defensive when somebody responds to your post.
OMG I can't believe it caused SUCH A STIR... oh wow.
28 year old male with not much to worry about... lol... this is classic stuff.
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What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
poetryrocksalot said:
Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
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Dunno... I'm 32 and I was quoting it.
Yeash, this is turning into that thread about religion.
Guys, please.
Noobs: sometimes, seniors get tired of answering the same old questions that can be easily found by a quick google.
Seniors: sometimes noobs are coming from a world of Nokias and iphones. You live in a world where people make ROMs for fun. Seriously.
The lot of you: you live in a world where you rub shoulders with Doctor Manhattan style giants, and don't even know it. Some of the guys on this site will astound you with their knowledge of the intricacies of the minutiae of the encryption systems used in the CE rom structure. They could blow you all away.
Experience is a sliding scale, and even George Lucas knows that "there's always a bigger fish".
Everyone should be polite, you were all noobs once.
V
PS be polite, serious, cus I'll start getting medieval soon.
poetryrocksalot said:
What are you from ebaumsworld? Ya know, I am offended by what you just said, and I'm 19. Does age really matter?
There is always a chance that a question/thread is plausible and that he actually tried to search. And beside, sometimes I get lazy about searching and I just ask the question too. Well actually I ask the question first, and search immediately after because I want to gather all the result as soon as possible.
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Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
wagonis said:
Nope, age never has anything to do with it as is evident by Drybonz reply...and like he/she said, he/she is 32. Even at the age of 32 he/she still enjoys coming on to a forum and slamming someone for simply stating something the is bothersome to them, then gets a bigger kick when he/she sees that the reply got under their skin. Sad part is he/she will probably see my reply and some how get joy from it too.
Basically you have 1 of 2 choices on internet forums;
1. Let people bother you and lose sight of why you got on to a forum in the first place just to end up not coming back and missing out because of it.
2. Let it go and realize life is too short to care about people with more guts behind a screen/keyboard and what they have to say. You see a post that bothers you? Skip it and go to the next, simple as that.
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kudos to you sir
I agree with Wagonis: just ignore any remarks by others that you dislike for any reason.
To Tomtommy: I agree with you that everyone ought to be polite, it is an excellent thing to strive for yourself. But if you let impolite remarks bother you, you just make things worse than they need be. If you ignore them, they will bother you far less. Indignation is a dangerous emotion, because it tends to swell with time. Just let people bicker; when they are really offended, they will make it known. Most people can take a bit of bullying.
[What I am going to say now borders on the insolent, so that I must apologize beforehand, but: I think those who are most insecure about themselves are the ones most easily offended. Those who are confident just think: "oh, an impolite remark" without experiencing much emotional impact. Sometimes, others are judged "offended" even when they themselves do not care.
Another option is that there are just differences in culture: in some groups, rude remarks are considered a form of innocent teasing.]
I just really don't understand.. I have been reading though many different threads for a long time now (lurking cuz I dont have any issues to report on) but thats not the point of my post right now...
most people are helpful and respectful and thats what we fellow android lovers should be about, BUT then there are some people that are just straight up A-holes... and people in the android community wonder what is happening to XDA as a whole... just read through pretty much any thread and you can see it...
we are all here to HELP not FLAME!!! we are NO better than others cuz we know more or have more posts, big deal, we all started out at post count 1... alot of times I wonder how old the people on here really are? cuz they act like high schoolers... again, the majority is a good group of people but alot of people need to check themselves... i hate to say it(not really) but everyone is going to rootzwiki and android central for this reason alone... DISRESPECT... think about it.... seriously, just think about it.
If we, or anyone who honestly gives a sh** wants to restore this site to its former glory, then first start showing respect!!!
/END RANT
This thread is for voicing opinions/issues ONLY!!! Rumors will not be allowed and NO flaming tolerated!!! thanks
THIS. Over in Fascinate land, we're losing our best developers as well as some VERY helpful "average users" due to an apparent surge in all-around immaturity and stupidity. Thing is, in my 27 years, I have yet to find a community (online or not) bereft of the "our community's dying!" mentality.
Wherever you have people, you have politics; wherever you have politics, you have conflict. While it's frustrating to see highly valued contributors moving on, we can still follow (and learn from) their continuing efforts while remaining part of XDA ourselves. The Internet's handy like that, but it's a double-edged sword: the masses always follow the content they desire and migrate as needed. The devs are our content providers, but donations and "Thank You" buttons can only go so far to outweigh general Internet shenanigans / douchebaggery.
Basically, I am confident that the greater XDA community will continue to thrive as long as the vast majority of users continue to conduct themselves appropriately and remain intersted in the subject matter. There'll always be petty squabbling and "shocking" departures, but it takes more than that to truly ruin a community.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
Omnichron said:
I agree with Jazz. In the many years I've been online I have seen forums go through stuff like this. It's part of our nature as human beings. And eventually the voice of reason prevails.
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I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
ssethv said:
I agree with you both... my point is respecting others... I have been a part of this forum and AndroidCentral for years and have never seen such disrespect at android cent...
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
the point: I hope this place comes back around
and thank you both for your input, hopefully others will read this and think about it. and I am sure I will probably get flamed for posting this
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
MartyLK said:
I wouldn't worry about it. Just as soon as someone shows the slightest anti-social attitude, put their user ID in your ignore list and you will never be troubled by them again. You won't be able to see anything they say. The thread will be populated only with constructive and helpful posts.
Since I started doing this myself, XDA has been a wonderful site for me.
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Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Jazz848 said:
Marty, you make a good point. The sad part about it is that when / if those people grow up, any worthwhile posts they make will go unseen by many; in a way, they really end up cheating themselves.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
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That's very true. But there are some who are not children who are just as disrespectful as some of the younger ones.
ssethv said:
Thanks, But what if that 'someone' does have some very helpful info but is just an A-hole. is there a way to filter. or just block them and deal with the loss of their info?
PS. I really like your tiny signature at the bottom... awesome
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Though it is possible such disrespectful people could have valuable info, I would rather not use it anyway. I'm funny that way. If someone disrespects me, nothing they do is liked. And I personally don't consider anything from them of use.
Thanks for the compliment. It was an addition when I started using the ignore list.
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
@orb3000
Thanks for the feedback... I never feed the fires of a flame... I am here for two reasons only... to get info (by READING or using the search tool) and to help other people out...
I am looking forward to "said" changes coming to the site
tek818 said:
I agree. I definitely wish XDA was brought back to the way it was a few years ago, however back then it was mostly devs and power users. It's really hard today with the influx of newbs making threads like "I CAN HAZ CM7 ON MY EVO 3D YET?"
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I somewhat agree with you... but we all started at post count 1, and were all noobs at one time... everyone that enters this site should be treated with dignity and respect. unless, the are undeserving of it, then as Marty said "block them"
but i understand exactly what you mean.. and it can be annoying at times. thats when i go smoke a cig or take a breath and break from the computer for a while.
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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You are going on my block list. Sheesh, flaming on a thread about stopping the flames. Shame on you!
LOL.... i cant stop laughing, you just made my day a little better
ssethv said:
I just don't get why some(not all) people (mainly the ones with high post counts) think they have the right to flame new people, or people that are asking for help. yes, this help may be obvious to some and not so obvious to others. but isn't the point of an tech forum to get help in a respectful manner? the other day I asked a question (and yes I did use the search tool first to no avail), and I was majorly flamed by two different people for something that was obvious to them but not to others...
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The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
When you're the kind of person who does things like, say, read all 800 pages of a thread (and weeding out al the useless posts) so you're sure to be up to date, then someone waltzes in and asks a question for the 100th time... it's just incredibly frustrating. For every user that does that, there's one that has come in quietly and found the information on their own, which means the information CAN be found. Heck, I was able to find it. I know it's out there. I earned it and they want it for free. So how many lazy so-and-sos should I give it away to before I get a bit irate? Frustration is instantly doubled if the post is in a Development thread.
We're all standing on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. Problem is, some n00bs don't seem to care if they kick the guys under them in the nuts on the way up. It gets old.
But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
mrkite38 said:
The answer is that after you've been here a while and see crop after crop of n00bs come in and ask the same. frigging. questions when the answers are right there, you get a little jaded and start to lose patience. Sometimes you forget which things are really obvious and which were hard to figure out. All you know is that you've answered it 100 times. So some 'power users' burn out, some keep trucking, and some turn to flaming. This is NOT EXCUSABLE, just explaining the lifecycle.
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But, as Orb stated, we're making some changes that should start to reverse that trend.
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well said, and I understand and agree with you... I am low on my post count on this site becuase I do use the search tool and EVERY singe question known to man has been asked and answered on this site, thats why I lurk and reseach, so I don't ask the same question again... I am on Android Central and know exactly what you mean. I was asked to be a moderator but turned it down cuz I don't always have the time... I mainly try to create guides/fixes/tutorials for the thunderbolt rooting roms and hacks section.
thanks to everyone for there thoughts and replies thus far, hopefully some more people will read and take to heart all of our opinions and issues
orb3000 said:
@OP
Indeed we have millions of members who love and respect what XDA stands for: Development!
And with a site of almost 4 million of course problems are in millions, we will be making some changes soon that will lead into a better XDA, of course with the help of all good members out there!
As a recommendation when you detect some problem, instead of reacting yourself and possibly starting a bigger issue please report to us and we will take care.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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Click to collapse
I agree, especially the bold part. But the current system in place doesn't help us report any problem posts. I've been here since 2007 (in fact the only other older person in this thread is you) and just comparing what was back in 2007 to now, the problem is worse with hot tempered devs and or members in general. Like I said the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
And while I agree that the site is mostly created by developers for developers, everyone started on page 1. Everyone started asking questions. I understand that some devs (and members) will get frustrated after the same question is asked over and over. But there isn't any need to go off the deep end. The same goes for any member. In the time that one wastes making a post flaming the member, they could have reported it or better yet, provide the answer.
I've gone through threads with hundreds of pages to get an answer, but seeing so many with flames, arguments and nonsense forces those that rather not deal with it to ask the question even if it was asked before.
Now mind you, I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere. Its a fine line to cross. Now, what the solution or middle ground is, is anyone's guess. Hopefully the upcoming changes will be a start. But in the meantime, I for one will continue to report anyone that is out of line regardless of post count or title.
TS out
Another thing that throws a wrench into this is the fact that staff may be reluctant to give out a warning, infraction or a temp ban to those disrespectful members with high posts counts especially if they are developers for fear that they may take their stuff elsewhere.
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Very true!!!
the system doesn't give those that care the affordability to actually report a problem post or member. Having to go through a list of mods and having to choose one to send the complaint is not efficient. Maybe the report button should generate a report post that deposits in a specially created forum for the staff to see and then take care of. This not only keeps a record of problem members but is quicker than the current system.
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Hopefully this idea will be considered by the mods, its a good idea!!!
I firmly believe its not just mods but everyone's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly. If a member starts flaming, being disrespectful, etc, don't add to the argument, report it, this way the staff can remove the post. Maybe then the 100 pages threads won't be so riddled with nonsense or be so long. We can't rely on the staff to see everything, so we should do our part as well. But like I mentioned above the reporting system doesn't help.
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well put... thanks for contributing to this thread... I want this to get the wheels turning, I love this place and hate what is and has happened to it...
New report post system is on the way pretty soon
Anyone that has been reading the Dev section or been in the IRC chat has probably seen plenty of flaming going on by some people that think they're Elite compared to everyone else. If you think another chatroom would be nice for users to get help when needed without fear of getting banned, flamed, yelled at, told to STFU, ridiculed or more, then let's set it up.
XDA is about a community of users and devs helping each other to tweak their phones as a hobby. Let's get the friendliness back into these forums and start helping each other out.
There's quite a few options for IRC chat, EFnet, Undernet, Mibbit, Freenode, etc. What's everyone's preference? I'm also voting myself NOT to be an Op, I have limited time available between working 50-60 hours a week, having time for my wife and kids, and doing Android app development on the side.
-Daryel
If I can ever help. PLEASE don't hesitate to ask.
Great post....
Rob
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
geekaren said:
Excellent idea.
I've also wondered if it might be helpful to have a separate E4GT Q&A forum (similar to what's set up for the international SGS2):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1148
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Once we have 1,000 threads in General or 10,000 posts in General we'll be able to split that out - XDA rules.
Glad to hear a Q&A forum will be an option in future.
Thanks, jerdog!
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
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Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
henbone11 said:
not for nothing daryelv, but you keep making it appear as though you were just an innocent victim to an irc tirade. that simply is not the case. you did everything you could to badger and harass a rom dev about something that everyone in the thread clearly understood. before jumping on here to cry to whomever will listen, try taking a moment to look at the situation and figure out why the results were what they were. people here, that were not there at the time, have no idea what happened, only your word. there are two sides to every conflict. making it seem as though you were just randomly assaulted is irresponsible.
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While I wasn't privy to what you are referring to, have to agree that in general this is a very true statement. I'm not taking sides here at all but in my experience this is a common concern across the boards, regardless of devices.
XDA is a development community but we would be nothing without a user base. We need to lead by example and do our best to be patient with those that are new to the game. We were all there once.
With that said, as a newer user you have a responsibility to research, read, search and read some more before you start asking questions that have been answered over and over again. I'm a patient guy and I love helping people that need help but it honestly does get a bit rough when people don't take the time to at least try to learn before bombarding you with questions about your ROM when the answers are in the OP. If the user would have taken the time to read they would have found what they were looking for. You have to understand that you are one of many people asking the same questions over and over again. So if your met in an unpleasant way, sometimes thats why. Not that it makes it right but maybe just a bit of insight.
We need to all work together and make this community worth participating in.
At the end of the day, all this stuff is about a phone. Trust me, there are much bigger and more important things in life to worry about than a phone......
Well hit 1ooo threads by the end of the week
But there is probably 1oooo post by now
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
xak944 said:
Perhaps if everyone searched for their issue, took some initiative, and did some research before posting they would get flamed a lot less.
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You make a great point, but it doesn't matter. Someone could ask a question after spending days searching for an answer and still get flamed. These no way to know if someone has taken the time to search, so people that are really trying to learn and have put the time in themselves are getting lumped into the same group as those to lazy to use the search button.
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
To be honest, douchebaggery is rampant at most android forums. Take a gender at the CM7 port for the touchpad thread at rootzwiki.
Ill credit it to the expansion of android
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
fadetobolivia said:
Actually, I was present in irc for the exchange.
I had the same confusion as daryelv with regards to the question he was asking, and it's not because "i cant red gud." In fact, if daryelv hadn't asked the question, then I wouldn't have flashed the rom due to the confusion. So I, for one, benefited from the clarification.
But when he pointed out the source of the confusion, he did get flamed and it did turn racist. It's too bad, because it was all really over an outdated sentence in the rom thread disclaimer, and it was pretty unnecessary.
I get the hard work that devs put into their projects; I wouldn't want to be bothered with dumb questions either. But there was a genuine confusion and a lack of receptiveness in hearing about it.
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I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
daryelv said:
Oh, I know I was banned for asking why an Op didn't update his thread to make things a little more clearer so there would be fewer questions on it. It's when 4 other people jumped into the conversation and started calling me an idiot, a f-ing indian, and more that things went way overboard.
It's not just me though, look through all the chat logs and you will see a repeated pattern of attacks by anyone coming into the chat room to ask about the LOS problem, or wants to ask about Rev B, or has a question about a ROM. It's usually 1 or 2 Ops jumping down the user's throat telling them to "STFU" and then kicking them out.
Anyone voicing their opinion usually gets kicked if it doesn't match the opinions of the Ops. I'm sorry, but the playground has been taken over by a bunch of bullies that sit waiting to tell someone to F-off. That's why we're looking at possibly making a new playground. If you don't like it, don't come. If you want to discuss this more, do it in PM.
-Daryel
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It's because all of these things have been answered, or there's a thread dedicated directly to it. It takes only a few seconds to search. I'm not a dev and I already find it irritating seeing 5 new threads about the same thing every day. If people would simply search on the forums, or even do a quick Google search, I'm 100% sure they'll find the answer to any questions about any of the topics you just brought up.
ptfdmedic said:
I had this very same discussion back in the Epic 4G forums earlier in the year. Something that everyone needs to understand is that the developers are no better than anyone else. Everyone in the community plays a role.
I would argue that the developers should be setting the example of how to conduct one's self and not fall victim to the god complex that has affected some of us. I always throw my friend k0nane under the bus at times like this not because of anything he has done wrong but because of the example he sets. He is easily one of the best developers I've met and yet he treats everyone with respect and affords them the dignity that they deserve.
There will always be a-holes out there but if you lower yourselves to there level than your no better than they are.
As developers, we need to remember that we are no better than anyone else. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect whether they are developing or simply asking an honest question.
Please remember that the Epic Touch 4G is only a phone. Life is way bigger than this and if the biggest thing you have to worry about is flashing a phone than count yourself lucky.
This is way to early in the cycle to have the forums going down the toilet. Take control back and lead by example. You should NOT be afraid to ask a question, especially if you tried to find the answer or simply need clarification.
While I'm far from the best developer I do always try to respond to everyone's questions and PM's. Hit my up on my blog and send me an email. I'll get back to you when I can. Please don't ever be afraid to ask me a question.
Let's keep this community moving forward.
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Theoretically, no devs aren't better than anyone else. Realistically, yes they are. They are the people who spend hundreds of hours (unpaid) doing something that directly benefits you. I'm sure they get hundreds of the same question every single day that they've answered already. If I were a dev, spending all my time doing something for other people, then get spammed with messages because someone is too lazy to spend a few seconds of their time (when I'm spending hours of my own) searching the forums, I'd get pissed too. Have you ever donated to a dev? Have you ever even said thank you for all of their hard work? Why are the only things devs get repetitive questions and complaints?
Anyone with questions about Odin, flashing, or need help finding an apk you accidentally deleted or just have a general question, PM me anytime. It wasn't very long ago that I had to search to see what root was. Ask anyone with an Epic..I will help out in any way I can so don't hesitate to ask. On a side note, I sure am glad ptfdmedic got an ET4G...pure class and he was the same way on the Epic threads as well. That's why everyone over there respects him so much.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
i dont know what exactly happened in the IRC, buuut like someone posted earlier... there are two sides of the story so im not agreeing with anybody, BUT i will point this out...
the person asking the question was right in the sense of asking a question because s/he was confused... on the other other hand, i understand ppl here repeat a lot of questions that have an open thread on that very same subject and make devs inpatient but turning this into a racist argument was uncalled for in my opinion... what does being indian, even if the person asking the question isnt one, have to do with being confused?
seems silly to me, cuz being confused DOES NOT have anything to do with color or race! just my two cents....
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
musclehead84 said:
I don't understand why people have to make racial comments. Not just in Daryl's story but there are other instances I saw. Nobody is better than anyone else. We all come for the same reason. If u can't handle don't log on. It would make the thread less crowded if u answered that repetitive question instead of flaming them. If anyone has anyone questions that they want to ask they can pm me as well. I know JC will go out of his way as well as ptfdmedic. There are more as well.
The Evo3D Killer!!!
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No one said there aren't people out there that are helpful, but continuing to ask the same questions that are asked in threads pretty much daily when there's a search function is pretty frustrating.
I do agree that bringing anything racial (or anything offensive) was incredibly immature and wrong. There's absolutely no reason to be rude, but people to need to be more aware of how to get answers other than spamming devs with the same questions.
IF YOU WERE GIVEN A LINK TO THIS THREAD BY ANOTHER MEMBER OF XDA IT'S PROBABLY FOR A GOOD REASON!
PLEASE HEED THE WARNING, TAKE A LITTLE LESSON IN POSTING ETIQUETTE, BEFORE YOU ARE REPORTED TO A MOD, IF THAT HAS NOT ALREADY HAPPENED.
Far too often people post in threads without thinking of the developers feelings and it's becoming a big problem!
Think of it this way!
You just spent countless hours working building your new custom car.
Now your such a nice guy you let people take it for a drive and check it out for FREE!
How would feel if they come back and most LOVE IT and appreciate the work you've done but,,
some say..
"It uses too much gas"
"It's way too slow"
"It hesitates when I tow a tractor trailer"
"I Hate the colors"
If you were the developer sharing your hard work for free and reading comments like that, you would think, Dam What a ^%*&%^*& *&^*&^, why am letting people trash my hard work!?! Heck with this, I don't need this!
THINK A LITTLE BEFORE POSTING!!
In stead of saying
"This ROM sucks the life out of my battery"
Try
"How is everyone's battery life on this? I'm getting 10 hours with 2 hours screen on time. This is my 3rd battery cycle, I'm on WIFI 90% of the time. I installed BetterBattery Stats and it shows xxx. Any recommendations / ideas? Also did A Clean with a full wipe, did not flash and mods / kernels" Even better add a Logcat, you may find in the logcat that X app is checking your location every 2 seconds and shows up 1000 times in the log.
In stead of saying
"This sucks! Every time I open the camera it crashes"
Try
"Is anyone else having this problem? For some reason every time I open the camera app it crashes. I tried redownloading the ROM, double checked the MD5, did a clean install, full wipe, and let it sit for 10 min after 1st boot then rebooted. Attached is the Logcat I grabbed using CatLog from the play store"
Look at that! That way your not assuming that the developer messed up! And you may actually be being helpful by providing a Logcat so he can actually look into the problem.
Making statements without providing information is,, well rude and not helpful to anyone!
And worst of all, it can discourage or drive the Developers away!
If you were smart enough to be able to make your own ROM - Kernel you would not need the Developers help, and could fix it yourself!
Most of us do not have the time and or brains to be a developer!
So PLEASE show some respect to the Developers that are kind enough to share their work with us for FREE!
Hit their Thanks Button often, and consider buying them a Coke or Redbull aka Donate :highfive:
Same basic principal goes for when you reply to someone!
IMO if the question has already been asked and answered, quote the last answer. Or the part of the OP with the answer.
Better yet quote a few of the last times the question was answered and show that you can use the search feature.
To me, if you can show me the question has been answered 3 times already, I feel like a fool with egg on my face and will STFU.
Smart comments and rude answers, even just saying, use search, usually just leads to more useless comments and bickering for all of us to read through!
If you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say anything! Just move on
Next time you see someone posting like a jerk, try to provide a nice helpful answer and direct them to this post for a little lesson and consider reporting the post!! See next post for more info!
Please get with the program or expect to be reported and possibly banned for a period!
This includes asking or hinting at an ETA! Don't do it!
On that note here are a few words form Woody about reporting trouble makers
Woody said:
Use your best judgment. We don't need gestapo type reporting, but you get the idea of what is needed.
It would behoove (yes I said behoove) people to maybe look at how a report is done. My buddy TonyStark had put a thread together a while ago on how to use the Report function. {Guide} Getting a Moderators help. I also have it linked in my signature, as well. It can be intimidating a bit when you hit that button. Hopefully this will help.
One thing that I might add regarding the reluctance to report you posted above. All reports are anonymous. Only people who know the names are us (Mods) and the User who reported it. Not the person who is being reported (unless you, yourself post in the thread "Reported")
*********
Now at this point, I think that we have strayed from what this thread is trying to accomplish. Posting with Proper Etiquette. Let's turn it back to that, so that when people who are linked back here will understand why. You can always shoot me a PM if you have a question or anything like that.
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And for crying out loud please learn to Logcat! There are apps for that that can make it easy.
Plus in my never to be humble opinion, if you can't logcat, you should not be flashing anything!
Also read this!
And I recommend reading the following from Recognized Contributor TonyStark
So you are tired of being called a noob - I want to shake the noob status
First and most important, read this New User Guides
Q: How do I contact a forum Moderator for -fill in the blank- on a problem with -fill in the blank-
I have been on XDA for years and have always found these steps to be the best. Not only for you but for the process as well. Please remember to be patient. If you do not receive a message (shown in 4) within 5 days, please re-post.
1) In the upper right hand corner OF EVERY POST you will find this.Click on the caution sign.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
and now in 2013 format
2) Please fill the pertinent information into this screen. PLEASE do not make it personal or use colorful language. Just be brief and to the point
3) You need to make a selection in the drop down. PLEASE do not be overzealous in choosing a topic. In 95% of cases you will only need to choose Other - Non-urgent
4) You will receive a message
In most cases this will be followed by a resolution.
Hope this helps​
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
A lot of people need this
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Maybe a sticky is needed here.
Jelly419 said:
Praise!
Cool story, bro!
They call me "Jelly" cuz jam don't shake like this!
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ktetreault14 said:
A lot of people need this
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
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Hopefully the people that need it, actually read it!
Help out and stick this thread in your sig, or direct the people who need it here!
I'm beyond tired of seeing good developers leaving or getting pissed off by posts from people who post without thinking 1st!
Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...
CitrixLemon said:
Seriously, that's some kindergarten level basics...
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You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.
I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.
Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..
But yes, I still agree with the OP.
sswb27 said:
Maybe a sticky is needed here.
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Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.
I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.
jangst123 said:
You would think so!
But sadly we have all seen them and way too often.
I think some people just forget themselves sometimes, at least I would like to think not that many, are that rude, all the time.
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You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.
ingenious247 said:
I agree with what the OP is saying, however Devs also need to keep in mind there are many "not so savvy" Android users who wouldn't know how to run a logcat, even though they may have learned some of the basics of flashing. I think sometimes (and I'm not making excuses) some Devs are a little hot-headed and need to remember that there are always idiots out there who can ruin it for the rest of us.
Easy to just add the offending user to the ignore list.. instead of screwing over the people who are treating the Dev with respect.. just saying..
But yes, I still agree with the OP.
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I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.
In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.
I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.
The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore. It's difficult to always convey someones personality over text, without emoticons and "lol's" and ":good:" or ":highfive:"... I'm a prime example of that. I try to say lol, or put a winky face or what have you, but I try and get to the point and tell them its a few pages back... orrr I give them 10 links and tell it 'em took me 5 minutes to do that. I'm no search wizard or anything like that, I just use keywords and then read through things. The users that want things handed to them on a gold platter are a large issue at hand. I would go as far to say as 75% of the questions asked in a dev thread, are in the OP in one way shape or form. I have a q&a thread for Cm10 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813456 with 10.1 info (which is almost of use to all 4.2 roms out there)... I have a resource guide http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2088179 Which I'm still ironing things out (should do that today actually, haha) and I have a q&a for Illusion 4.2 rom http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2106546 which for the time being pertained to AOKP and Vanilla Rootbox for the most part. People have looked and looked over them for the most part and still ask the most redundant questions in the dev threads, and open new threads with stuff that I've covered already. If it's something I haven't covered, I answer them respectfully almost every time, and/or point them to a thread that will help them. This needs to be done more often to stop the unnecessary posts, which turn into bashing threads, which turn into more work for the mods. I agree with the OP, some devs will take things to heart and walk away and we are down more person or team that will help us with our phone "needs" ... Devs and themers and such just have to look at it this way... "You can't please them all"-some wise man... And I think I ranted long enough. LUNCH TIME!!!
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
We are doing way better than what was done on the t989 Hercules forums. We should keep it that way. At least til there is a real s4
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
mt3g said:
The best way I see it, now that I've been around the block. You can't take the internet serious anymore.
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Click to collapse
This pretty much sums up all these, in my opinion, useless threads/posts. In one concise sentence.
Guys, we don't need a thread for common sense. People who lack common sense won't have sense enough to read the thread. In other words, you are preaching to the choir. This solves nothing.
Enforce the current forum rules. Ban, or at the very least, suspend idiots. Need more moderators, we don't have anywhere near the amount we need. Two to three moderators for each device forum. None of this would have happened. Rules aren't enforced, plain and simple. Rules that are not enforced will be ignored. Do you drive the speed limit? No. Why? Because the rule isn't enforced.
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
Woody said:
Not likely BUT this does give me an idea about something a little more (un)official that we could post and stick. I'm going to write something up and pitch it to the team and see what they think and refer them back to this thread.
I like the idea, but it has to be as general and vanilla as possible and cannot be black and white, otherwise it won't work.
You have no idea my man. No idea. You should see some of the stuff we deal with.
I like everything about this post. Some people need to be handheld just a bit longer so they can take their first steps. It is Pete and Re-Pete that are the problems.
In the old days, it was Logcat or GTFO. Then the stone got ground down a bit, then a bit more and now we are here. We are trying to make things more Developer oriented and to make it so that Devs are more cherished than they are now, but it all stems from how to get Users to realize this. Hopefully some guidelines and better n-etiquette will help to usher us back to those days.
I've known jangst123 for a long time, so I know that he is very passionate about this and wants the threads to be filled with awesome ROMs but also the community at-large to be a great place to get help, cool mods or bleeding edge development. I think that we all really want that, right? So let's make it happen.
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Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!
I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.
Something needs to change.
Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.
I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!
For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
Re: Posting Ediquette - Don't Anger a Developer
Meh.... The rude and ignorant on tech forums of today are just the newest generation of AOL "me too"ers from yester-year. You couldn't take them seriously either.
I for one am grateful for those that pave the way in new arenas for me.
Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
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Agreed. I absolutely despise people who post, "LEARN 2 USE SEARCH/GOOGLE" instead of simply providing whatever link or help the person is looking for, especially when it's a simple thing like how to get root.
ingenious247 said:
Some of the blame also falls back on the users who do know what they are doing, because instead of helping educate the less-than-friendly user they actually post responses than incite even more anger leading to that user feeling like they are being "jumped" per se.
Really this falls back on the xda community as a whole, I know I've posted things before that could have been worded in a way that would have better served the user and the community, instead of my own cynicism or ego.. none of us are perfect, that includes the Devs.
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Your absolutely correct!
Responding in that way often starts a flame war.
If ya ain't got nothing nice or helpful to say, don't say it.
Quote the last correct answer to the question, or answer the question politely and move on.
Don't stir the pot.
Anything else often leads to 10 or more useless posts to read through.
I for one often don't have the time to read though all the extra crap that gets posted every time someone gets their feelings hurt.
I did not create this tread to address all the issues on XDA.
I created it to have a thread to point to when I come across the poster that needs a lesson in Posting Etiquette.
And hoping in doing so it would not anger the poster but help educate them a little.
So I would appreciate it if we can keep the discussion to, Posting Etiquette and how to nicely respond to those that need a lesson.
I will edit the OP later to include response etiquette.
lol,, just realized in my haste I spelled Etiquette - Ediquette :silly:
unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.
to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.
TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.
"Stop biting the hand that feeds you." I agree with the OP 100000%. Devs are intelligent people. They don't need to stoop to bull****.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
---------- Post added at 04:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------
saranhai said:
unfortunately, stuff like this happens in almost every other device forum across XDA. it's stuff like this that makes us stop wanting to dev, stuff like this can even tear a development Team apart, as it almost did with Team Inferno. those who came from the MyTouch 4G know what i'm talking about. Team Inferno faced many haters, people who just wanted to do everything in their will to destroy a newborn team. it takes a bunch of endurance and encouragement, and i thank all those who supported Team Inferno, those who could see potential in a Team of noobs like us. we all start somewhere, nobody wakes up one day and decides "i'm going to be a dev" and by nightfall pushes out the best ROM/mod/kernel ever seen.
end users need to realize that we developers are not here to serve you. you don't pay us for the stuff we push out. we do it in our own free time, because we want to, we have an interest and a hobby.
to developers: don't get butthurt because of one or a couple of know-it-alls, there are people out there that will try to push you down. if you get pushed down by them, you're the only one hurt, they may even laugh at you. don't fall into their trap! because at the end of the day, you're not developing for others, you're developing because you want to, it's your hobby, and you want to share your work with others.
TL;DR?
read the whole thing you lazy butt.
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Click to collapse
Also, thank you for your work on XDA.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
jangst123 said:
Logcat or GTFO,, o the good old days!
I would love to see a thumbs up and thumbs down on each and every post.
And if your thumbs down is lower or than thumbs up, you can no longer post in development threads.
This would allow the community to police the threads and force people to think twice before posting.
But that is probably too complicated of a system change.
SO
Would it be possible to keep a ranking of sorts?
Something that checks posts to thanks count.
And you must have at least 1 thank for every 3 posts, to post in in anything other than general. Maybe even include the number of thanks given out in the equation.
Something needs to change.
Repeated questions are completely different than people being rude jerks.
Most of the repeated questions are a bit different than being rude. Repeated questions are probably best answered by quoting the last time it was answered. That way everyone can see it's been answered. And the poster should feel the egg on their face. Or by quoting part of the OP when needed.
I for one am willing to help in any way I can. Just let me know how I can help.
I don't have all that much spare time, I have a business to run, so I try to contribute and encourage developers by donating phones and cash to them. On the occasion I have some spare time and I come here to get away and get my crack flash on.
To see Developers get discouraged by rude posts, drives me crazy!
For now I'm pming offenders and kindly suggesting they read this thread.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
+1 Logcat or GTFO days! Those were the days!
Adding a link to my sig! Hopefully someone will read it, but I doubt the jerks that cause the problems will take the time to read it. They already know it all.
Now that I think about it, I don't post that often to begin with, so i doubt anyone will see mys sig, but i will give it a try.
I like the,, BAM Hammer idea, lol
It would be great if we could hit the thumbs down on their post and somehow vote them off the island!
I'll get straight to the point.
The nature of our Development Forums on XDA have changed dramatically since the G1 days and unfortunatly its a change for the worst, its hitting in my opinion rock bottom with less and less people willing to contribute. Back when Android was born and XDA opened its doors to us G1 users we were all there for one reason. To LEARN!
The thirst for knowledge and understanding was exciting and thrilling, being the first to discover something new and letting it be free and available to all who wanted, to strive to break down the barriers that our providers put before us and set us all free! It was to be a complete geek and openly honest a complete rush for me and all of us.
Just writing about it sends a shiver down my spine I so enjoyed it all back then. But todays culture seems to be one of spoon feeding information to people who have no idea what they actually have in there hands, and to be frank would look at me cross eyed if I told them to use terminal emulator to enter a command! Now dont get me wrong I'm no linux expert I'm not even a beginner but I took time to learn terminal commands for Android to help further our community by not asking dumb questions and knowing what a search engine was!
So for my proposal and discussion as a community is.....
Should we allow the developers to HAVE the Developement forums?
We currently have General forums with support threads so basically if your not a developer you simply can't post in there. Lets give the devs somewhere they can talk with other devs and concentrate solely on development and not reading 15,000,000 pages of posts like 'The rom didn't work its rubbish' and replying back to all these people to try and gain some peace to work.
Well I have had my say and I look forward to some serious intelligent debate on this.
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
WCCobra said:
How exactly do you differentiate between a dev and non-dev? Also, there are plenty of non-dev users who find valuable info for the people doing the actual dev work.
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Easy. Can you build a rom? Do you know your arse from your elbow? And have you heard of google?
If you answer Yes to all three you're probably a dev.
No seriously you are perfectly correct and I understand what you are saying but again why couldn't we have that same discussion/help/suggestion here? Its basically the same and the devs can check in whenever they like as they already have to in their development threads now. We have help threads here that are basically unused because they are cluttering up the devs thread instead. We need to look at encouranging devs to stay and this to me gives them that and a lot more would be achieved I feel.
Perhaps a way for devs to have a open or closed thread.
Like asylum rom. There is discussion thread and a development thread.
Maybe an option to allow only recognised developers or senior members in a thread.
I agree junior members (noobs) are a pain in the ass.
I tought myself mostly by reading threads and figuring things out.... Why can't they? I don't know... I try to play nice though sometimes the stupidity bassles me.
A blacklist option or a "kick ban from thread" option for the dev. If someone is anoying to other members or just clutters the thread this would be a nice implementation for a dev.
Send from my Omega/perseus powered SGN2
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
adolfo778 said:
Don't see this being implemented anytime soon. Thread will probably be closed as well. Sad but true. People will always ask assisine questions that can be solved by searching or wiping.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
I'm no dev. I'm far from it. But I can totally agree with what you say about it being different from the g1 days. I too get a little... Choked up...
I didn't even know what adb ment, let alone how to work it. Took me hours just to figure out and set up.
After rooting and handling updates for all my buddies phones plus my own... I'm a little more comfy. But I can't build a ROM.
There definatley a problem with people not reading. I mean... "Does cam work on this ROM?" Its answered on every page. I've seen it answered 3 posts before the question was asked.
Xda-Etiquette got lost somewhere along the way. Some things are too advanced for new android users. If it was, I didn't touch. New members don't think like that.
Read read read. Post in general or q&a. Don't clutter up dev threads with "thanks" and "help... I brick!".
Learn what a brick is. Lol.You don't have to be the first with s-off when you don't even know what it means. Wait til it becomes easier. Don't lose a device cuz you want to be on the cutting edge but don't even know what fastboot means.
Bs in the other topics. When you click that "android development" button, keep your mouth shut and read. Nothing most of the xda users, myself included, can say would be productive and helpful to devs.
And to end... I still <3 xda.
Sent from my One S using xda app-developers app
DisruptiveMind said:
God knows I understand that but again why not let this be the forum to ask them in?
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Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
adolfo778 said:
Xda has gotten a lot more traffic Since the g1 days so noob questions are expected. I imagine if the mods were to implement your idea. Alot of those threads and members would be left with unanswered questions, plus you don't have to read the 500 pages in each thread just the OP we read through the pages to pass time
And most devs already talk to each other via iirc and gtalk and popular ROMs such as venom have there own forums. The difference is xda gets more traffic. More traffic = more downloads. Plus what fun is it if all the threads are serious, and devs dont get to bag on noobs
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again they can! They just do it in here instead when the devs need a laugh. All help and dumb questions can be answered here in the General Forum meaning people would actually be more likely to read at least something of the first post in the Development Forum because its not as daunting knowing there is another 100 pages of posts to read following it.
Did you remember to fastboot flash the boot.img?
Thx for this thread, it always helps to discuss issues if they occur. In any case there is no need for closed dev threads @ XDA, since this would lead to believe we are only developing for our own pleasure. Reality is we all enjoy to push the envelope and share it with other guys in the forum. We all need and want feedback, so it`s not a problem XDA can solve.
All we can do is try to educate users, that we are happy to help them as long as they try to search for answers first either in the thread, on XDA or Google. Users in dev thread need also understand the following:
All custom ROM`s have bugs (so do stock ROM`s)
Not all these bugs are ROM related, in many cases the problem sits in front of the device.
If it`s a real bug, just report it, but don`t be demanding. Most of us just publish stuff here for pure pleasure of sharing and cause we are proud, that we could enhance the user experience with new features.
Users really need to understand, that we don`t have an obligation to update stuff in a certain time frame. We do that in our free time and it`s just a hobby.
Users should especially behave in a friendly manner and be respectful with everyone in the threads.
So bottom line - don`t expect XDA to solve the issues, we as a community must learn to respect each other and understand there`s more important stuff in life then a phone.
Edit: Maybe except the new ONE :laugh::angel::silly:
Well again I find myself saying all that can be done here, I never once said I wanted the Development thread closing or to create a nature of 'building for themselves' we could all still have access and well would need it to download roms so I don't understand where you are coming from on that point. Why do we have a support thread in General if the support is offered in the roms thread?
And to be honest as we need to be I have seen you yourself getting annoyed by the questions that pop up time and time again as has many other devs leading to yet more and more posts about ego wars and the tiredness of answering the same thing again and again and again. Simply let that stuff stay in here otherwise not only is General but Q&A forums seem to be somewhat pointless as no matter how hard you try being nice about it users will never learn. A place where real Developers can go and know the community takes care of the 'silly' stuff, as a developer yourself I would assume you would appreciate not having to spend so much time reading all the pointless posts that appear. You say rightly that you do this as a hobby and in your free time so wouldn't it be better if you knew you had somewhere to get away from it so to speak and spend that time doing work on your rom/s?
The stupid questions are just plain laziness. I'm basically a noob, this is my first android phone and I just got it last October. I can't remember even asking any questions, maybe as couple, literally. I'm usually the one helping out people who have been using android longer than me. In October, I remember having to look up what a kernel even was. Lol. So, yeah, people just have you seriously just read more, but don't just follow steps, try to understand what you are actually doing. Just following steps, you won't learn nothing.
HTC_One_S | Xparent_ICS_Blue_Tapatalk 1.06_Hboot_Downgrade | Root_Box | Bubba_Kernel_2.8b | S-OFF
I don't think things will ever change. There are always going to be lazy, entitled noobs who want to be spoon fed. Changing that I think would be a losing battle. I'm not saying we should encourage them, but fighting and flaming simply won't ever change things. I think we should simply continue helping those who've shown they have no problem making the effort to help themselves and ignore the ones who want everything handed to them.