Related
>>>Click Me<<<
or for offical specs here
http://www.htc.com/www/product/touchpro2/specification.html
Shame about the processor....
It´s almost the same as my 2005 Universal....
Anyway it´s something to consider!
udgn said:
TouchPro2 no Flash.
Just Stick to your TouchPro:
1. NO CAMERA FLASH:
To HTC... Accept the fact that we end-up relying to the phones
camera; Who wants to go to a PARTY!!! WhooooWho!!, Activity or
to anywhere.... ohhh! wait [email protected]*# WITH a Camera and a phone (2
devices to carry with).... VEEERY UNCOMFORTABLE it is, NO PARTY
WILL BE.
2. DON'T FALL FOR IT: Thinnnk!
They did this:
- Removed the TILT capabilities from the TouhPro, and added Flash (a mayor for decent pics).
- Removed the FLASH from TP2, and leaved same camera 3.2.
- Infra RED from tilt, ETC, ETC, ETC.
Whyyyy???? THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE....BECAUSE THEY WANTED US TO
BUY THE TP2, or in other words FORCED US to UPGRADE.
It is ALL well planed.
Besides the Bigger Screen, Dual Speakers, Dual Microphones and
the more stylish design IMO (None of them are reason for
upgrade), the only thing worth for an upgrade is the
integration and usability of the TouchFlo 3D that integrates
with the OS and overall apps "PEOPLE CENTRIC", VERY GOOD, and will help you avoid 3rd parties Apps.
but......
.... Thank GOD, Angels, and whoever you believe in, that
XDA-Developers exist, BECAUSE I will just STICK with my
TouchPRO and will Integrate the TP2 Software into my
device, until TP3, TP4 or until they stop playing or RUN
OUT of OPTIONS to MUCK US.
For those with a TILT... Just upgrade to TouchPRO, is worth it. It have same Procesor and Memory, and you will get it in a VERY GOOD PRICE.
For those with a TouchPRO ..... Stick with it and support XDA-Developers, and just modified it as YOU like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK just to let you know if you're comming from a tilt you DIDN'T have infrared or flash to begin with so they won't really be missed. I also want to point out that they are not needed. Tilt and Touch Pro are marketed as Business phones where you want to focus on texting and connection rather than "flashy" things like Pictures. that's why the Diamond 2 (the consumer version) has a much better camera.
Also, wtf is with "Besides the Bigger Screen, Dual Speakers, Dual Microphones and...None of them are reason for upgrade"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? Screen size is a major reason in upgrading. Like you said most of it's new M3D features will most likely be ported later but you can't port a screen's size and resolution also Dual speakers?? I don't even use my phone like a phone anymore I either have it on speaker or BT how can you say that doesn't matter. The Dual Mic. thing will only be cool if it works. Anyway that was my rant for the day....
I don't get all the negative vibes in the Rhodium forum?
So I have the device. Sitting right in front me at this moment. I also have the Touch Pro. I'd definately pick the Rhodium, you just have to see the screen to understand. It looks like it could eat an iPhone for breakfast. The back lighting under the keys is just wicked cool... all the keys are translucent on the sides but not on the top and the white led's light up the whole thing. Its fantastic.
I'll attach a panaromic shot I did of my very dim light kitchen. It came out incrediably.
Ahhh! Whatt? Think again, Think twice.
xcom923 said:
OK just to let you know if you're comming from a tilt you DIDN'T have infrared or flash to begin with so they won't really be missed. I also want to point out that they are not needed. Tilt and Touch Pro are marketed as Business phones where you want to focus on texting and connection rather than "flashy" things like Pictures. that's why the Diamond 2 (the consumer version) has a much better camera.
Also, wtf is with "Besides the Bigger Screen, Dual Speakers, Dual Microphones and...None of them are reason for upgrade"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? Screen size is a major reason in upgrading. Like you said most of it's new M3D features will most likely be ported later but you can't port a screen's size and resolution also Dual speakers?? I don't even use my phone like a phone anymore I either have it on speaker or BT how can you say that doesn't matter. The Dual Mic. thing will only be cool if it works. Anyway that was my rant for the day....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to appoint that they eliminated or "EXCLUDED" the IR from the tilt, REMEMBER 8525 HAD IT, then TILT did not, so there you have REMOVED.
Now in your favor it is OBVIOUS that the dual mic/speaker, screen etc. and everything they improved or redesigned is amazing.
NOW for the part of the FLASH and Infrared NOT BEING a business tool..... YOU ARE WROOOONG.
And I'll explain why; let's just say I was waiting for a shipment of CONTAINER with merchandise and most of it arrived damaged, A CAMERA IS NEEDED.
let's just say you are in a meeting low level light in the place and someone came with the idea of taking some pictures, you don't want to look like an idiot struggling with the stupid phone trying over and over to get the best shot, DON"T YOU THINK YOU NEED A FLASH? I'll answer that for you a MAAAAAAJOR YES.
JUST READ WHAT I posted again, and while you read, pay more attention to the essence, and if for some reason, I ate up words just because I'm a busy business man, and do not have time to eleborate, just focus, so you can get it right.
AND I WON'T continue giving examples of business situations where you would kill for a phone with a flash, or with IR because I won't be able to finish. OBviously your experience in BUSINESS is SHORT, by the look of your comments. YOU SOUND like a very and loved GOOD friend of mine, that his father spoiled all his life, and because of that he dares to say that the Iphone is a business phone too, JAAA!! I'm sorry for him.
Again your points of the upgrades they made are tempting me, and I would love to go through my docs and edit my contracts from that BIG screen, and also while business flight being able to watch a movie. But I just put everything up together in my mind, and still I won't buy a TP2 if they do not release it with a CAMERA FLASH. It's just not enough.
The WORST of ALL is KNOWING they are doing it on PURPOSE and BET YOUR LIFE they will next release a TouchPro 3 with the flash and even with an IR (so you can even use your phone as a remote, AND A BUNCH OF BUSINESS APPLICATIONS)
I think I explained my reasons in my previous post. That by the way I copied paste it everywhere without knowing I was violating the rules of the FORUM, so I'm really sorry, won't happen again.
Just can't stand HTC playing with everyone's heads.
Believe me never flashed a phone but if I have to in order to have my Fuze with the same productivity APPs in TP2, I WILL this TIME.
XDA will help me in the process.
udgn said:
Just to appoint that they eliminated or "EXCLUDED" the IR from the tilt, REMEMBER 8525 HAD IT, then TILT did not, so there you have REMOVED.
Now in your favor it is OBVIOUS that the dual mic/speaker, screen etc. and everything they improved or redesigned is amazing.
NOW for the part of the FLASH and Infrared NOT BEING a business tool..... YOU ARE WROOOONG.
And I'll explain why; let's just say I was waiting for a shipment of CONTAINER with merchandise and most of it arrived damaged, A CAMERA IS NEEDED.
let's just say you are in a meeting low level light in the place and someone came with the idea of taking some pictures, you don't want to look like an idiot struggling with the stupid phone trying over and over to get the best shot, DON"T YOU THINK YOU NEED A FLASH? I'll answer that for you a MAAAAAAJOR YES.
JUST READ WHAT I posted again, and while you read, pay more attention to the essence, and if for some reason, I ate up words just because I'm a busy business man, and do not have time to eleborate, just focus, so you can get it right.
AND I WON'T continue giving examples of business situations where you would kill for a phone with a flash, or with IR because I won't be able to finish. OBviously your experience in BUSINESS is SHORT, by the look of your comments. YOU SOUND like a very and loved GOOD friend of mine, that his father spoiled all his life, and because of that he dares to say that the Iphone is a business phone too, JAAA!! I'm sorry for him.
Again your points of the upgrades they made are tempting me, and I would love to go through my docs and edit my contracts from that BIG screen, and also while business flight being able to watch a movie. But I just put everything up together in my mind, and still I won't buy a TP2 if they do not release it with a CAMERA FLASH. It's just not enough.
The WORST of ALL is KNOWING they are doing it on PURPOSE and BET YOUR LIFE they will next release a TouchPro 3 with the flash and even with an IR (so you can even use your phone as a remote, AND A BUNCH OF BUSINESS APPLICATIONS)
I think I explained my reasons in my previous post. That by the way I copied paste it everywhere without knowing I was violating the rules of the FORUM, so I'm really sorry, won't happen again.
Just can't stand HTC playing with everyone's heads.
Believe me never flashed a phone but if I have to in order to have my Fuze with the same productivity APPs in TP2, I WILL this TIME.
XDA will help me in the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I have a couple things to say about that.
1. I was raised by a single mother and very NOT spoiled having to also take care of my younger bro. growing up...oh, what's a father??
2. Anyway you are still missing what I'm saying I'm not saying flash and IR are useless I'm saying if you are going from a TILT to a touch pro2 you won’t' miss a feature that you never had. Yes they removed it and it's probably because IR is old tech and flash is still considered consumer. Yes you can go on about how you can use it BUT the fact of the matter is that's what they consider it as. I'm not saying ME but HTC decided that. And the evidence is in their phones.
Next time you want to slam my knowledge of business actually read what I said (even though you said you read it twice) not once did I say that "People don't need this" or "People don't need that" I said "marketed" HTC has a way they market their phones whether you like it or not, it's just how they work. Also don't ever mention an Iphone to me. I hate apple with a passion
Guys Take It Easy
I hear both sides of the argument and I must say that both you guys make valid points.
As a user of a Tilt, I must say I hate the fact that it does not have flash. The example of the damaged goods is a usual for me. And when it comes down to the business sense. I consider myself productive when I can take the pictures on my phone, directly e-mail it to the people responsible then wait 5 minutes, call and make noise right on site. But thats just me.
I love all the new features of the TP2. Trust me, from the big screen to the dual mic to the dual speakers, the M3D interface, and the illuminated keyboard. Whereas I'll continue to miss the flash, I'mma jump on this thing first chance I get. In terms of the IR, I mean this is aging technology. BT is taking over and it is equipped on this phone so I see no reason why they should not have removed it.
I don't know why HTC adds or removes certain things. I guess that its because they have a range of phones for different purposes and targeting different audiences. Hopefully one day will come when we can custom build our phone. Until that time, I think HTC is on track to making better built phones everytime.
mystikal87 said:
I hear both sides of the argument and I must say that both you guys make valid points.
As a user of a Tilt, I must say I hate the fact that it does not have flash. The example of the damaged goods is a usual for me. And when it comes down to the business sense. I consider myself productive when I can take the pictures on my phone, directly e-mail it to the people responsible then wait 5 minutes, call and make noise right on site. But thats just me.
I love all the new features of the TP2. Trust me, from the big screen to the dual mic to the dual speakers, the M3D interface, and the illuminated keyboard. Whereas I'll continue to miss the flash, I'mma jump on this thing first chance I get. In terms of the IR, I mean this is aging technology. BT is taking over and it is equipped on this phone so I see no reason why they should not have removed it.
I don't know why HTC adds or removes certain things. I guess that its because they have a range of phones for different purposes and targeting different audiences. Hopefully one day will come when we can custom build our phone. Until that time, I think HTC is on track to making better built phones everytime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from what I understand all the different radios like, wifi, BT, IR, 3g, etc...take up physical space in the phone and you can only make the phone so big. I'm sure HTC has a priority system on what they should have on the phone and it probably goes something like 3G, BT, Wifi, then IR and I think they only put IR if they possibly can and I'm sure a led light is lower than that. but I would like to see IR and a flash there are some pretty cool things that can be dones especially with an IR port.
the spec says the Rhodium has the qualcomm MSM 7200A CPU. The Rhodium phone I have got has a MSM 7600 CPU, handles both CDMA and GSM
kluks said:
the spec says the Rhodium has the qualcomm MSM 7200A CPU. The Rhodium phone I have got has a MSM 7600 CPU, handles both CDMA and GSM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where did you get it?? Also what bands does it support.
let me get this right.
this phone doesnt have a flash?
a dated processer too? is the processor better than the TP?
i agree stick with touch pro the next device i go for is not the tp2 i know now...Maybe a shift ...
The lamest of them all
Ok so I will add my 2 cents, I had the Tilt and when I found out about the Touch HD, i couldnt wait to get my hands on it. I did, i like it and i have it but miss my keyboard dearly. The touch keypad is nice but its not like having physical keys.
I have had my touch HD for about 3 months and plan on putting it up on Ebay, keeping my Tilt and selling it on Ebay once the Touch Pro 2 comes out and getting it. I know the processor is smaller which is ALMOST a deal breaker, i dont have a flash on my camera now and dont really care but going down to a 3.15 meg cam from a 5 kinda sucks too but whatever. I like a keypad, "Gimme da keeeeys ill drive!!!"
Also how much slow down do you think i can expect coming from the 7201 processor to the 7200? Doenst seem like it would be much of a difference. Not a deal breaker thats for sure. The camera issue sucks but whatever im not big on pics really. Can someone tell me the diff between WAP 2.0/xHTML, and just HTML? Deal breaker? I know the HD is a much better phone but i really miss typing with keys
johseph said:
Can someone tell me the diff between WAP 2.0/xHTML, and just HTML?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WAP is the mobile view of internet and HTML is the standard (barely) for internet for PC. However that shouldn't matter to you since we have Opera Mobile and that runs most everything pretty well.
HI,
Do you know what VGA-Out (or XVGA) resolution have-it?
daphix said:
HI,
Do you know what VGA-Out (or XVGA) resolution have-it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the link posted in first post.
Or click device database at the top of the forum.
Dave
Grrr, I wish it had an 800Mhz Snapdragon Processor, or even one that isn't Qualcomm . . .
just giving my own opinion here
first of all i own the touch pro..
honestly i couldnt care less that the TP2 has no flash. Looking at the TP1 it has a crappy flash to begin with..wanna take a pic at night?i suggest you start praying they COULD put a better flash on it but i dont see the use for it..HTC Phones are not known for their camera quality anyway...
As about the TP2 being worth it..PERSONALLY i say hell yes..I find the bigger screen a HUGE benefit as compared to the TP1..Thats along with other small benefits of course..I use TF3D2 on my touch pro now andits great..but it surely is a different feeling when you use it on a bigger screen
too bad my contract will last an extra year so i cant make the jump now
Sprint TP2 Worldphone?
Somwhere I have seen that Sprint would release the TP2 as Worldphone. Means with CDMA and GSM radios. Somebody out there who can give thoughts on this? Oh, got it http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1792 .
I just recently bought a Palm Pre and returned it, hated it! So I bought the touch pro knowing it cam out almost a year ago (impulse buy). Now I am just curious, I know the touch pro 2 is coming to sprint, but its rumored that the hero will be out for sprint later this year, possibly December. Which one should i wait for?
i think major difference is the qwerty keyboard so decide if you need this or not.
lhwparis said:
i think major difference is the qwerty keyboard so decide if you need this or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ one is android and other WM, usually a big difference depending on what you like.
That will depend on what is for you need the device
TP2: Buissness oriented device with the second best physical keyboard (1st is from Universal)
Hero: Multimedia oriented device with an OS tha promises a lot in the future, by now it needs to grow up and madurate
Welcome to my world, all these damn phones coming out, Hero I like however things I dont like are the shape, imagine that in your pocket? "Are you pleased to see me or is that a HTC Hero in your pocket?" and as the person above mentioned, lack of keyboard.
White doesnt stay clean for long either.
SuperAdvan said:
Welcome to my world, all these damn phones coming out, Hero I like however things I dont like are the shape, imagine that in your pocket? "Are you pleased to see me or is that a HTC Hero in your pocket?" and as the person above mentioned, lack of keyboard.
White doesnt stay clean for long either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, yeah I know, keyboard is a big deal to me. It's just WM seems to disappoint me a lot. Although I have high hopes for 6.5, I'm thinking sprint is waiting for 6.5 to release to touch pro 2, it would make it all that better!
But still, functionality versus a keyboard, I don't know! haah
I know what you mean about WM, but HTC have done a great job of masking the dull and boring monolike OS with Touchflo from what I have seen and WM 6.5 looks like a vast improvement at least visually.
Personally I think you, like me, would probably get bored of Android and the touch screen keypad would drive me nuts in the end.
I tried typing on an Iphone 3GS yesterday to get a (improved) idea of what a Diamond 2 or Hero might be like and with my fingers theres no chance I would type quickly on that ever, it would be like trying to look behind you without moving your head.
TP2 is the way to go, however the Omnia Pro is coming soon too, but then the Nvidia Tegra chipset powered HTC HD sequal is comign - I cant decide either, phones are like PC graphics cards these days.
SuperAdvan said:
however things I dont like are the shape, imagine that in your pocket? and as the person above mentioned, lack of keyboard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the shape is virtually the same as the G1, and I've never heard anyone complain about any discomfort when they put the G1 in their pocket. and there may not be a hardware KB, but as far as onscreen KB's go, it looks like the Hero's will be one of best so far. and I like how the screen is capacitive and thus supports multi touch.
personally, I'm getting the TP2 when it comes out on AT&T. I'm also planning on picking up an unlocked Hero (unless it finds its way to the states, specifically AT&T). just want something else to play around with
Please buy both. Both has different strength, features & abilities. Both are totally different. I hope i will get one if god willing
For me it will be the one with the biggest screen & WM on it...TP2!
galaxys said:
For me it will be the one with the biggest screen & WM on it...TP2!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah but the hero has a capacitive screen right? or am I wrong about that? Im actually not sure but I would think that it does because all the other android ones by HTC ara capacitive
Edit: I checked and im pretty sure its capacitive but I just browsed through search results
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=530600
The same question has been haunting me lately too. I've been waiting forever for the TP2 to come to AT&T and now I see this. If they end up having release dates close together I'm thinking I might go with the hero. The main thing that will bother me is the lack of keyboard since I'm coming from a Kaiser (Tilt).
SuperAdvan said:
White doesnt stay clean for long either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
White is not definite. Colors and providers are yet to be determined according to an HTC rep on a youtube video that I saw earlier (If I can track it down again I'll include it with an edit....)
SuperAdvan said:
I cant decide either, phones are like PC graphics cards these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but there's one big difference. You can get an upgrade discount on phones once every 1.5 years, otherwise you're paying out your A$$. Graphics cards are always the same (usually relatively lower) price.
SuperAdvan said:
I know what you mean about WM, but HTC have done a great job of masking the dull and boring monolike OS with Touchflo from what I have seen and WM 6.5 looks like a vast improvement at least visually.
Personally I think you, like me, would probably get bored of Android and the touch screen keypad would drive me nuts in the end.
I tried typing on an Iphone 3GS yesterday to get a (improved) idea of what a Diamond 2 or Hero might be like and with my fingers theres no chance I would type quickly on that ever, it would be like trying to look behind you without moving your head.
TP2 is the way to go, however the Omnia Pro is coming soon too, but then the Nvidia Tegra chipset powered HTC HD sequal is comign - I cant decide either, phones are like PC graphics cards these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah you seem like you have the same thoughts as I do. I think you're right about getting tired with the android phone. I love messing with WM and modding it. I know you can with android, but it will have its limits. The thing about touch pro 2 not being a capacitive touch screen, it bums me out and makes me ask why they won't do this with WM yet. I can say they have been improving their resistive screens, big difference from the mogul to the touch pro, so I hope they can do that again. I am definitely leaning toward the touch pro 2. Does anyone know why they won't go with the capacitive screen on WM or touch pro 2?
josiah7 said:
Yeah you seem like you have the same thoughts as I do. I think you're right about getting tired with the android phone. I love messing with WM and modding it. I know you can with android, but it will have its limits. The thing about touch pro 2 not being a capacitive touch screen, it bums me out and makes me ask why they won't do this with WM yet. I can say they have been improving their resistive screens, big difference from the mogul to the touch pro, so I hope they can do that again. I am definitely leaning toward the touch pro 2. Does anyone know why they won't go with the capacitive screen on WM or touch pro 2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is exactly why I'm shying away from the TP2 and leaning towards the Hero or the Magic. The sheer idea of there being opportunities where I might need to resort to the stylus are completely holding me back. Guess I'll have to actually play with one before I make my decision; but, since using the capacitive touchscreen (iphone/G1), I'm not sure I can go back.
SuperAdvan said:
Welcome to my world, all these damn phones coming out, Hero I like however things I dont like are the shape, imagine that in your pocket? "Are you pleased to see me or is that a HTC Hero in your pocket?" and as the person above mentioned, lack of keyboard.
White doesnt stay clean for long either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL! Yeah, I don't like the shape of it too..
I would go for TP2 as it's not going to disappoint you!
Hard descision
touch pro 2 is coming to tmobile august 8th and hero im not sure but the magic is coming july 8th..the resisitive touch screen on the pro is so smooth it feels like its capacitive..and its alot bigger screen and has multitouch..but the hero has android and its built very nicely with the teflon coat and finger print proof screen..i hate phones so many choices ((
Mi|enko said:
This is exactly why I'm shying away from the TP2 and leaning towards the Hero or the Magic. The sheer idea of there being opportunities where I might need to resort to the stylus are completely holding me back. Guess I'll have to actually play with one before I make my decision; but, since using the capacitive touchscreen (iphone/G1), I'm not sure I can go back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The resistive screen is one of the selling points for me, especially one as finger-friendly as TP2s. Best of both worlds. I get easy navigation without having to constantly sheath and unsheath the stylus, but I can use a compact and conveniently tucked away stylus when needed. I very much doubt I'll ever need it for the basic interface, but with some apps I'll want it. My Palm TX has been my primary Chinese-English dictionary for some time (before it, my Palm T|T and m500 served the same purpose), and the same software is available for WinMo. I'd just as soon use a stylus for character recognition. For that matter, I'd just as soon use a stylus for handwritten memos. I imagine capacitative screen users get by on both fronts just fine, but for me, I'm glad there's a good resistive screen still available.
Mi|enko said:
This is exactly why I'm shying away from the TP2 and leaning towards the Hero or the Magic. The sheer idea of there being opportunities where I might need to resort to the stylus are completely holding me back. Guess I'll have to actually play with one before I make my decision; but, since using the capacitive touchscreen (iphone/G1), I'm not sure I can go back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far with my TP2, I have not used the stylus at all and I am a pretty heavy business user, thats emails, facebook, youtube, general browsing and posting on forums, stock, sms.
Whats more I have yet to use the actual qwerty keyboard aswell, I find the touch one good enough everytime unless I'm typing a huge email or document.
My advice is go and actually look at the Diamond 2 and TP2 in the flesh, it is totally different to looking at it on the internet, it really is a quality product.
bobdude5 said:
touch pro 2 is coming to tmobile august 8th and hero im not sure but the magic is coming july 8th..the resisitive touch screen on the pro is so smooth it feels like its capacitive..and its alot bigger screen and has multitouch..but the hero has android and its built very nicely with the teflon coat and finger print proof screen..i hate phones so many choices ((
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry to burst your bubble, sir, but the TP2 doesn't support multi touch. that luxury is reserved for devices that have a capacitive display. and while the TP2 feels like it's capacitive, it isn't. the Hero, on the other hand, IS capacitive and therefore the screen supports multi touch
Wow is all I can say...I bought the focus and the UI blew me away as soon as I turned it on, I bought the focus. I have used all the mobile OS and this by far is the most sleek, easy to use, and just plain nice of all, I don't miss c&p bug I do miss multitasking in apps like last.fm, I can still send it back and get something else, but what's better then this? I'm typing this from wp7 now and man this keyboard is awesome, the level of little details they put into wp7 is crazy, gotta say I'm really impressed here, I'm sticking with this for a while to see where this goes, hopefully MS stays true to their word and keeps on supporting with updates, as for apps, I've come to realize that I don't need a million apps, I only use like 20 anyway, but it seems to be growing fast anyway. All in all super impressed with wp7,9/10 from me and if this keeps getting better, I don't see myself going back to anything else.
Yea I played with the Focus today at the AT&T(worst wireless carrier in the universe) store and I love the UI and how smooth the OS is. I'm currently on Evo 4G, but I'm considering WP7 once it comes to Sprint. I previously had the iPhone 3GS and WP7 user experience is very comparable with iOS. While I like Android the lack of GPU acceleration is a huge issue, until that's implemented the user experience will never compare to iOS and WP7. I'm holding out for the January update to see if MS adds free turn by turn navigation, better landscape support(what idiot decided that you can't input a URL in landscape mode?), flash and copy and paste.
Is there a list of wp7 problems or missing features? Cause it seems like I'm missing very little atm.
solidkevin said:
Is there a list of wp7 problems or missing features? Cause it seems like I'm missing very little atm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=814075
first pinned thread.
though i'm happy with my phone.
Believe it Or not I am very tempted to get an n8 as well, saw it in person and wow, what excellent hardware!! And it does all those little things like mass storage etc. Anyone here have an n8?
N8, looks great. But lacks balls and has a very crappy OS. Know of two friends whom have returned them. Due to bad reception and a buggy slow OS playing up..
Go Android or if you must iPh or W7 if you want all that exchange compatibility with MS apps etc at work.
That's where it is at...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
solidkevin: The windows phone might have some small problems but that nothing compared to the N8. I only hear bad stories from people that have that phone.
KMino said:
N8, looks great. But lacks balls and has a very crappy OS. Know of two friends whom have returned them. Due to bad reception and a buggy slow OS playing up..
Go Android or if you must iPh or W7 if you want all that exchange compatibility with MS apps etc at work.
That's where it is at...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Symbian has way better Exchange functionality than Windows Phone 7. WP7 may not be thoroughly suitable for serious business use until Q3/Q4 2011. It's not the device/OS to get if you want great Exchange support. An HD2 or Blackberry Torch would be optimal for business use (assuming you like Touchscreens, otherwise a Bold would do).
There is no comparison between WM6.5/Symbian and WP7 when it comes to Exchange support. WP7's support is actually kind of embarassing considering it comes from Microsoft, TBQH. It's better than Android at least, and maybe on par with iOS, or perhaps a little worse than Apple, even - at the moment, at least.
Yes, the N8 isn't the best device, but it works well. Nokia will be patching Symbian the same way MS will be patching WP7. If you can deal with Windows Phone 7 and its functionality gaps, etc. then I don't see why anyone can simply discount an N8 when it's not out of the realm of possibility that it too can/will benefit from updates from Nokia.
Symbian also supports the ActiveSync Protocol, more Media formats, more DRM formats (including Windows Media DRM for syncing ZunePass subscription content to the phone).
The worse thing about Symbian is the user interface and the Screen Resolution of their touchscreen phones (what an odd choice of resolution, IMO).
I'm not even gonna continue. I've gotten my point across by now, hopefully.
The Samsung Focus is available for 79 bucks on contract at the local Wal-Mart here. The 8GB storage is a showstopper, though. I'm not playing SD Roulette with a phone. 16GB is the bare minimum I can put up with. The build quality isn't all that great. The back cover pulls off like a cheap hooker's bra.
TBQH, the only WP7 device I feel is worth buying is the Dell Venue Pro. Fortunately it's on T-Mobile and I get Corporate Discounts from Dell, so I'm sort of thinking about it. It's a shame the HD7 has such terrible build quality with such a bad LCD on it... Thoroughly pissed me off...
But I'm going to wait until CES. Maybe an Android device from a decent manufacturer will come out and I will stick it out here.
Judging from what Microsoft is saying, it's gonna take them a year to really get WP7 functionality up to par and judging form my experience with this phone... I simply don't have the patience for that...
I also want to see if RIM will come out with a decent Touchscreen phone soon with a more refined/better OS on it, as well. We'll see at CES. I'm holding off all purchases until then.
Well while I AM enjoying the focus at the moment, I am waiting for CES as well, I want to see what everyone offers as far as Android and Hopefully Nokia shows what it plans to do with Symbian because if it gets a revamp, I may have to get the N8, I will have a lot of money to spend, because I sold the extra focus I had (buy one get one free ATT), so If I want something else I can sell this one as well. But yea hopefully theres some interesting things at CES, really just Android and Symbian are what interest me though.
solidkevin said:
Well while I AM enjoying the focus at the moment, I am waiting for CES as well, I want to see what everyone offers as far as Android and Hopefully Nokia shows what it plans to do with Symbian because if it gets a revamp, I may have to get the N8, I will have a lot of money to spend, because I sold the extra focus I had (buy one get one free ATT), so If I want something else I can sell this one as well. But yea hopefully theres some interesting things at CES, really just Android and Symbian are what interest me though.
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Isn't it just Nokia now who are actively developing Symbian?
Symbian will be ditched to midend and Meego or however it's called will be used as highend platform. Known for months.
Symbian development is over for me. Nokia has a reeeaally hard time to give really competitive hardwarwe. I would forget it.
And yes, only Nokia does Symbian. All of the rest kicked it out, significant move.
N8ter said:
Symbian has way better Exchange functionality than Windows Phone 7. WP7 may not be thoroughly suitable for serious business use until Q3/Q4 2011. It's not the device/OS to get if you want great Exchange support. An HD2 or Blackberry Torch would be optimal for business use (assuming you like Touchscreens, otherwise a Bold would do).
There is no comparison between WM6.5/Symbian and WP7 when it comes to Exchange support. WP7's support is actually kind of embarassing considering it comes from Microsoft, TBQH. It's better than Android at least, and maybe on par with iOS, or perhaps a little worse than Apple, even - at the moment, at least.
Yes, the N8 isn't the best device, but it works well. Nokia will be patching Symbian the same way MS will be patching WP7. If you can deal with Windows Phone 7 and its functionality gaps, etc. then I don't see why anyone can simply discount an N8 when it's not out of the realm of possibility that it too can/will benefit from updates from Nokia.
Symbian also supports the ActiveSync Protocol, more Media formats, more DRM formats (including Windows Media DRM for syncing ZunePass subscription content to the phone).
The worse thing about Symbian is the user interface and the Screen Resolution of their touchscreen phones (what an odd choice of resolution, IMO).
I'm not even gonna continue. I've gotten my point across by now, hopefully.
The Samsung Focus is available for 79 bucks on contract at the local Wal-Mart here. The 8GB storage is a showstopper, though. I'm not playing SD Roulette with a phone. 16GB is the bare minimum I can put up with. The build quality isn't all that great. The back cover pulls off like a cheap hooker's bra.
TBQH, the only WP7 device I feel is worth buying is the Dell Venue Pro. Fortunately it's on T-Mobile and I get Corporate Discounts from Dell, so I'm sort of thinking about it. It's a shame the HD7 has such terrible build quality with such a bad LCD on it... Thoroughly pissed me off...
But I'm going to wait until CES. Maybe an Android device from a decent manufacturer will come out and I will stick it out here.
Judging from what Microsoft is saying, it's gonna take them a year to really get WP7 functionality up to par and judging form my experience with this phone... I simply don't have the patience for that...
I also want to see if RIM will come out with a decent Touchscreen phone soon with a more refined/better OS on it, as well. We'll see at CES. I'm holding off all purchases until then.
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Click to collapse
Good post. You made some valid points, but I got the impression that you believe MS dropped the ball with WP7, and I don't believe that to be a true..or even fair assessment.
It is the nature of version 1.0 of just about anything to be incomplete..to be a work in progress. In regards to smart phone OS's, its always been that way. iOS v1.0 was very limited, as was Android 1.0, and so on so forth. I was an early adopter of both platforms and was at times frustrated by the limitations. But, as an early adopter I understood that this was the way it usually is, and that things would gradually flesh out.
For me, iOS never did "flesh out" enough. I've always loved the smoothness and general quality of iOS and the iPhone, but I found myself bored by it. Android did grow and develop quickly enough to keep me engaged, and I still enjoy the control I have when using Android...and also enjoy that the relatively open nature of it allows be to constantly tinker with my device. But, even though I usually enjoy doing so, the main reason I'm always tinkering with my Android devices is because I've never been satisfied with how they felt. I hate the apparently inherent choppiness and occasional lag of Android, and my main motivation for rooting my Android devices had always been to try to get rid that.
Somewhere between those 2 extremes lies WP7. Yes, in some regards it is limited. But, I can accept this for now because, as I mentioned earlier it is v1.0 and I know these limitations are being worked on as we speak. Many people are refusing to accept that, though...and it seems that you're one of them.
The gist of the argument seems to be that MS came late to the party, so they had already known what the dress code was, and shouldve showed up fully decked out. That they shouldn't have released v1.0 until it matched its contemporaries feature for feature. I disagree with this. I think MS was right in getting a v1.0 that provided the basic user experience that they were aiming for out there as soon as was possible. Did this strategy suddenly propel WP7 to the top of the smart phone world? No, not even close. But it has managed to grab just about everyone's attention...and has solidified it's position as a viable player. I believe that is all MS wanted to accomplish by rushing to release v1.0 just before the holiday season...and I also believe that it was better for them to do so than for them to sit out until after the holidays.
I am convinced that WP7 v1.0 is the best 1.0 smart phone OS released to date. I think that MS got the basics incredibly right...and that the limitations are going to begin to be addressed very soon. Yes, MS was late to the party, but they've shown up with more style than anyone else, if not with as much substance...and they are moving much faster than both Google and Apple did to provide said substance. WP7 is a joy to interact with. It is beautiful. It's fun. So much so, that despite the current limitations, I choose to use my HD7 as my daily driver...and to leave my Android phones at home.
WP7 is in many ways very good right now, and it has an extremely bright future. I can understand that some of you don't have the patience to wait for WP7 to catch up in the few areas that it's lacking in, but such patience is a prerequisite of being a happy early adopter. If you can't enjoy experiencing the growth process of a new platform, then maybe being an early adopter isn't for you. But, please people, don't make it seem like MS blew it in regards to WP7, because that couldn't be further from the truth.
Oh, one last thing. How in the world does the HD7 have horrible build quality?? Yes, as you tilt the phone away from the optimal viewing angle, the colors somewhat fade. It is not an AMOLED screen and the black levels pale in comparison..quite literally. But, when I use my phone, I tend to keep it within the optimal viewing angles...and within those parameters, the HD7's screen displays good and VERY natural colors..unlike the overwhelmingly oversaturated colors that my Galaxy S displays...and without any banding.
Also, I love the 4.3" screen. Those extra .3" make a real difference. Do I prefer the outrageously deep blacks and the incredibly effective viewing angles of the Super AMOLED screen? Yes, if course. But, I prefer my HD7's spacious, natural looking screen in every other way.
Outside of the screen though, I don't see how anyone can critize it's quality. I've owned MANY top of the line mobile devices, and none have felt better in the hand than the HD7. It looks good and feels good because HD7 uses high quality materials..unlike Samsung. People complain about the thinness of the back cover. It is just as thin..or thick, as the one on the Evo...and I don't see anyone criticizing it's quality. Despite being thin, it feels great when attached to the phone. The soft touch surface is great.
I'm also aware of the complaints about a relatively large gap between the removable and fixed portions if the back of the phone. I found this to be an optical illusion caused by the unfortunate location of the white sim card right where it's partially visible through the gap. But, I found an easy fix. I pulled my SIM card and colored the upper third of it with a black sharpie. Guess what...after that, the so called huge gap magically disappeared. The gap itself is no larger than on most phones. The location of the sim card was the problem. It looks great after taking a sharpie to it.
I can't reply to all the parts of that. Will take too long.
The build quality of the HD7 is terrible compared to the Dell Venue Pro. HTC was never known for having superior build quality. The HD2 was pretty good, though. Don't know why they paid so little attention to the HD7...
The HD7 has basically the same LCD panel from the Evo and/or HD2. It's not a good panel. It has bad color saturation and terrible viewing angles. It's also overly reflective. Size can only make up for so much, but you can get a Dell Venur Pro 16GB on contract for $50 less than an HD7 and the screen is only 0.2" smaller. The HD7 is a pretty bad phone by current standards. They used parts from last year to build a phone this year, and it's pretty apparent if you look at it next to other WP7 devices.
You can harp on the oversaturation in sAMOLED panels, but the fact and the matter is that it blows this crappy HD7 panel out of the water in almost any category. Viewing Angles, Brightness, Color Representation, etc. It's a bad screen. You can't make excuses for that... It almost looks foggy compared to an AMOLED panel (even something like the MyTouch 4G screen is obviously better).
Also, it has a smaller battery than some Blackberry Curve smartphones. 1150 mAh... Seriously? Anyone who uses their phone moderately will not be able to get good battery life out of that. It may be fine for YOU, at least now, especially with no third-party multi-tasking (this also makes WP7 perform artificially better compared to competing products - it only has to do one task at a time), but once that update comes and you're running 3-4 apps concurrently it will nosedize. All reviews has been pretty negative on the small battery in the phone.
The camera also isn't anything to rave about.
The materials used to build the phone are pretty dubious.
Build quality means the hardware build quality. It has nothing to do with the software.
Moving on to the software (WP7). Yes, they dropped the ball. They missed an opportunity to get a ton of frustrated Nokia and RIM users, as well as pick off more Android/iOS users when they decided to rush the OS out 6-12 months early with entire classes of functinality missing.
WP7 fails as a business phone right now, and Microsoft saying they're focusing on consumers is nothing short of an excuse. They said it will take almost a year to bake the business into the phone, so obviously that was in the roadmap. What they did was rush it out to try to save face while they "finished' the job. Coming from Android and Windows Mobile, some people are tired waiting on Manufacturers, etc. to "finish the job" while they sit there with a down syndrome phone saying "look how smooth it is, it's worth it!"
No HTML5 in the browser. No multi-tasking, C&P, embarassing Exchange Policy Support for a Microsoft OS, a user interface that in several areas looks like only 5 minutes was dedicated to design (Calendar, Dialer, etc.), lack of Flash (oand/r Silverlight), etc. Even blackberries have an HTML browser, now Not to mention WP7 didn't evne attempt to really exploit the enhancements made in Microsoft Exchange to convince business users to use it instead of RIM/Nokie/WM6.5 devices...
If you read my posts in this thread, you can clearly see that I'm not some Anti-WP7 fanboi.
But I think some people are making this OS to be way better than it actually is.
It really isn't revolutionary in any way, and falls on it face in many areas given what competing products can do and [rightfully] assuming competing products will improve as well.
The only thing that's really good about WP7 is the fact that it doubles up as a ZuneHD.
But a ZuneHD is cheaper than a whole smartphone and at this point in time it's almost worth buying an Andriod/iOS device and carrying a (much smaller) ZuneHD around than buying a WP7 device.
The hardware isn't all that good right now (will probably make a lot of "early adopters" mad at CES), and the manufacturers are paying little attention to what they're putting out.
If the Dell Venue Pro was in T-Mobile stores they would hardly sell any HD7s.
Sorry, gotta disagree about the dvp. It has already been recalled twice due to issues. How can you be confident that you will get 2 years out of it?
Coming from the hd2, the hd7 screen is fine. Maybe coming from a vibrant, its an issue, but I have seen more complaints about oversaturation and color banding of the focus screen then I have of the "washed out" look of the hd7.
I was a little worried about the back of the hd7, coming from the brushed aluminum back of the hd2, but since I'm not having to constantly pop the back to reset the phone, the back is no longer a worry and the texture is nice.
I've owned 4 HTC devices and overall the phones have been great. The best of them all (the hd2), is the only one that I had to replace due to failure. I consider that pretty good.
Maybe some early adopters will be frustrated by CES, but I doubt it. There haven't been many leaks of newer wp7 devices on the horizon. I think it might be fall before the next Gen wp7 devices hit, a full year after the hd7, which is about normal for new devices.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
I had an hd2 before this. I'm not blind and pretty much every review said the screen was pretty bad.
Dev has a warranty. Ill get enough time out of it until I get a mew device, if I get it. It a better phone than the hd7, in every imaginable way.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8er
So now after fighting with everybody and proving WP7 is the best,
you say it basically sucks?
Hard to believe.
And apparently you don't have WP7 device?
It's all well and good comparing feature lists, but really when you are talking about a smart mobile phone, it comes down to usability.
I put up with the quirks of WM5, 6.1 and 6.5 for a few years. While it did technically have a lot of features, it was slow and a pain in the ass to use. And if anyone not familiar with the phone used it they were immediately lost.
Now I'm using WP7 (HD7) since October and it just works. It's fast and everything is intuitive and makes sense. And oddly enough I am only very rarely missing some advanced features. For example, I thought I'd be crippled without tethering, but as it turns out I am using my laptop via tethering much less when I'm travelling because the mobile browser and mobile apps on WP7 are so much better than any previous mobile browsers I'd used, so I'm more likely to use it rather than just getting frustrated and dragging out the laptop to use the "proper" browser. The great WP7 keyboard has a lot to do with this.
And if I lend my phone to someone else so they can make a call or check their email or whatever, they can use it! WP7 passes the idiot test! I would actually get this phone for my father!
A few days ago I met a techy friend who's a nokia die-hard, he had just purchased the N8. We swapped phones for half an hour to test them out, and the look on his face afterwards was proof enough that MS is on to something. My initial impression of the N8 software was that Nokia hasn't changed their OS since 1999. There was an impressive list of features for sure, if you could find them, as the menu system and shortcuts confused the hell out of me. And fonts were tiny everywhere. Maybe I'm just spoiled by WP7 now, but the experience of using the N8 was dreadful.
TLDR; You can compare a list of features as much as you like to see which is best; but you have to experience it to appreciate it. And WP7 seems to have the edge in this regard at the moment, even above iOS and Android.
Focus
nrfitchett4 said:
Sorry, gotta disagree about the dvp. It has already been recalled twice due to issues. How can you be confident that you will get 2 years out of it?
Coming from the hd2, the hd7 screen is fine. Maybe coming from a vibrant, its an issue, but I have seen more complaints about oversaturation and color banding of the focus screen then I have of the "washed out" look of the hd7.
I was a little worried about the back of the hd7, coming from the brushed aluminum back of the hd2, but since I'm not having to constantly pop the back to reset the phone, the back is no longer a worry and the texture is nice.
I've owned 4 HTC devices and overall the phones have been great. The best of them all (the hd2), is the only one that I had to replace due to failure. I consider that pretty good.
Maybe some early adopters will be frustrated by CES, but I doubt it. There haven't been many leaks of newer wp7 devices on the horizon. I think it might be fall before the next Gen wp7 devices hit, a full year after the hd7, which is about normal for new devices.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
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"over saturation and color banding", I have no idea what you are talking about. I have had the focus for a week now and the screen is amazing. I don't even use my laptop any longer, just IE on the Focus. I was an HTC advocate for years (8125, 8525, FUZE) and switched to the Focus after careful consideration and will never look back. I have heard these criticisms of the screen and quite frankly don't see any of it. Am I just lucky? I have been to three ATT stores and played with 3 different Focus's before buying and did not experience these screen issues.
N8ter said:
I had an hd2 before this. I'm not blind and pretty much every review said the screen was pretty bad.
Dev has a warranty. Ill get enough time out of it until I get a mew device, if I get it. It a better phone than the hd7, in every imaginable way.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
the reviews I've read, had the screen as the "worst" of the wp7 phones, but due to bigger color range of wp7, the screen looked better than the hd2. Being the worst of the wp7 phones, is like saying the worst between a lcd, a plasma, and a dlp t.v. They are all perfectly acceptable, some people like lcd, some like plasma, I like dlp because it looks better for sports.
As far as the dvp begin better than the hd7, what are you basing this on? Hardly anyone has been able to get their hands on one. You can't go to a store and try it out since its only coming through dell and MS.
HD7 has a bigger screen, and more RAM.
Hell, even engadget can't get a review out because their demo units keep breaking...
We get it, you hate the hd7, but I don't think the dvp is any better.
JamesAllen said:
"over saturation and color banding", I have no idea what you are talking about. I have had the focus for a week now and the screen is amazing. I don't even use my laptop any longer, just IE on the Focus. I was an HTC advocate for years (8125, 8525, FUZE) and switched to the Focus after careful consideration and will never look back. I have heard these criticisms of the screen and quite frankly don't see any of it. Am I just lucky? I have been to three ATT stores and played with 3 different Focus's before buying and did not experience these screen issues.
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http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010...nding-issue-microsoft-could-partially-fix-it/
I’ve defected from Windows Mobile and the Rhodium over to Android and the HTC Desire Z (code name Vision). About a million years ago (late December, actually) Jackos asked that I write a review/comparison of the device, for which I am happy to oblige. Unfortunately, a newborn baby, holiday travel, and work travel have conspired to delay me from writing such a review. But I’m finally taking the time to fulfill the promise. Jackos thought such a review would be useful for those that are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium, so hopefully that is still relevant. Based on a recent thread, I would think so! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=949121
The move to a different OS was certainly something that I’ve been debating for some time. But as we all know (and possibly unwilling to admit), Windows Mobile is outdated and nearing the end of its useful life. Windows Phone 7 so far is a big disappointment to me. The OS seems very limited in many of the same ways the iPhone is, with reviews at various websites and comments by users verifying this notion. One article I read about WP7 was that the OS is not a good choice for power users. Android was looking more and more attractive to me. To me, it carries on the spirit of Windows Mobile in terms of customization. Things are not accessed quite the same way as Windows Mobile (there is no registry), but there is still tons of customizations, mods, and hacks available.
Being the owner of the Tilt (Kaiser) and Tilt2 (Touch Pro 2, Rhodium), I’ve become a big HTC fan, and wanted something similar, with a hardware keyboard. The Desire Z has a very similar form factor to the Rhodium, with a hardware keyboard, nearly the same screen size, and similar dimensions. I found out that Bell Canada released the HTC Desire Z in November, with 3G bands compatible with ATT's network. I decided to take the plunge. Not an easy pill to swallow, as an unlocked, unsubsidized device like this goes for a premium price of around $600 (and obviously not for everyone). But what the heck, its a been a good year, and I decided to get myself a Christmas gift. Of course, if you are in Canada, Europe, or on T-Mobile, you have access to specific versions for those locations and carriers at a much better price.
Let me tell you guys, this device is amazing. The build quality is excellent, the phone feels very high end, with most of the body being a gorgeous brushed aluminum, accented with some slightly grippy/rubbery “soft touch” plastic (also nice looking, and does not cheapen the appearance). The feel of the phone is much nicer, and seems more sturdy then the Rhodium.
The camera is 5MP with a LED flash, and yields somewhat better photos than the Rhodium. The screen is gorgeous. While the iPhone “Retina” and Samsung AMOLED displays get all the hype, the super LCD screen on the Desire Z is still very nice. Direct comparisons I have read rate it only slightly below the quality of the iPhone or Galaxy S displays. Touch response is excellent, and registers multi-touch very well.
Much has been said about this phone’s unique “Z Hinge”. See the Engadget review, if you aren't familiar with the Z-hinge: http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/11/25/htc-desire-z-review/
Some have complained about the phone not staying firmly enough in the keyboard open or closed position, or have expressed concerns of the durability of the hinge. Personally, I like the hinge and how it is designed to open easily with the flick of your thumb. But if you’re in doubt, you might want to play around with it in person before committing to buying the phone.
The keyboard itself is very good. But strangely, not quite as nice as the one on the Touch Pro 2. The the keys are slightly smaller (and one less row of keys), and do not have quite as much “travel” when pressing the keys. It feels like a slight step backward from the Rhodium, but still one of the best keyboards around. Having come from the ATT version of the Rhodium (which replaced the row of numbers with random symbols and punctuations), the missing 4th row of keys is not a big deal. But owners of other Rhodium variants will no doubt miss the number-dedicated row of keys.
Another piece of hardware that is strangely not as good as the Rhodium is the speaker. The speaker on the Desire Z is not quite a loud as on the Rhodium, but the difference is fairly minor, and most people will probably overlook this. The 3.5mm headphone jack is a welcome addition, and good riddance to adapters and special headphones that were needed on the Rhodium (at least the GSM version).
At the time of the phone’s release, this was one of the fastest Android phones available (although there is a new generation of dual core Snapdragons coming soon). Don’t be fooled by the fact that the CPU is clocked at 800 MHz. This is a newer generation of Snapdragon than the 1 GHz ones found on phones such as Nexus One and the EVO, with a different fab process and faster GPU also. The Desire Z benchmarks faster than those phones, as well as the Galaxy S, Droid X, and others. The CPU can also be easily overclocked to 1 GHz without over-volting and affecting battery lift; and much higher than that with over-volting.
Battery life seems somewhat shorter on the Desire Z compared to the Rhodium. I was often able to get 2-3 days on a change on my old Tilt2. On the Desire Z, I usually have to charge every night. I can maybe get through a day and a half; but at least a day with all but the heaviest usage. And to be honest, I’m using the phone much more than I did my old Rhodium, so that is a factor as well.
I've played around with Project Android on my trusty old Tilt2, so Android is not completely new to me. It took me a bit getting accustomed to where some things are located, but that is true with switching to any new phone OS. The OS is overall pretty user friendly. It just takes a little while to dedicate to memory where some settings and other things are located. And there is certainly a learning curve once you are ready for customizing/modifying. There is lots of new terminology, process, and tools to learn if you want to “root” (gain super user rights to access system files) and flash a custom ROM, or do other system modifications.
Knocks on Android for not being as "smooth" as the iPhone seem largely unfounded to me. The Desire Z is super smooth, and of course has tons of customization and functionality that the iPhone will never have. And if you coming from Windows Mobile, you are going to be blown away by the smoothness and stability of the OS. The only real performance weakness I’ve seen so far is switching from portrait to landscape on the homescreen, particularly when you have lots of widgets loaded.
Using the phone is a pleasure. Browser rendering is fast, with the stock browser working very well, and Flash enabled. I’ve been previously in denial that capacity touchscreens are a good thing, but multi-touch pinch-to-zoom really does make browsing a joy. Text selection (such as for cut/paste) is aided by a zoom feature that activates with a long touch on text, and also by the optical trackpad (which allows moving the cursor by single characters).
I already keep my contacts, email, and calendar on Google. So the Google integration is awesome for me. I just entered my Google login and password, and it synched all that stuff in a couple minutes. If you are not a Google user, things might be slightly annoying, as the OS will try to steer you toward creating a Google login. Google Navigation is built-in, and will give you point-to -point directions, with audio cues, and first person perspective. It works better than the tools on Windows Mobile such as Google Maps and Bing. It works so well, in fact, that I've often been using Google Nav instead of my Garmin Nuvi GPS unit in the car.
I knew moving to Android would open up a lot of software options, and in this I was not disappointed. There are tons of useful applications and games on the Android Market, and the list is constantly growing. Software developers have embraced Android, which is a refreshing change coming from Windows Mobile. Yes, there is a ton of fluff and junk in the Android Market. But most of the major applications you can think of have a quality Android version.
I’m not a developer. So I can’t comments on the development potential of this device and Android versus Windows Mobile. But so far there is pretty good developer support on the Desire Z. And many have claimed that developers will support this phone for a long time, as they seem to favor devices with a hardware keyboard. There are several stable custom Froyo (Android 2.2) ROMs available, including Sense and non-Sense options, as well as CyanogenMod (a popular and highly customized Android ROM). Gingerbread (Android 2.3, the latest version, just released) ROMs are in the works, with alpha/beta versions already available for testing. Personally, the stock ROM has been so stable and usable for me, I haven’t really been that tempted to flash a custom ROM yet, versus a Windows Phone, where a custom ROM is virtually a necessity.
I’ve babbled on for much too long. In short, if you are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium to something with a similar form factor, the Desire Z is highly recommended. Here’s a quick summary of the Desire Z versus my old Rhodium:
Pros
OS is light years ahead of Windows Mobile (smooth, stable, fast)
Awesome build quality, with a sturdy feel
Better display
3.5 mm headphone jack
Great selection of quality applications
Slightly better camera (5MP) with LED flash
Cons
Keyboard not quite as good
Speaker not quite as good (minor)
Shorter battery life
Z Hinge durability may be an issue
P.S.: If you like the review, please click the "Thanks" button below!
I really appreciated reading this review. I'm a Tilt 2 user, that hasn't found anything new out there to make me want to give up my Rhodium and I have the same feelings regarding Windows 7, so I'm very hesitant to give it a try. Android is completely new to me, but from what I've read, it seems like the natural progression for those of us on Windows Mobile.
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Thanks again for posting this. I look forward to reading more about your experiences with this device.
Have fun!
Debbie
Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?
DebbieNY13 said:
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
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Having finally lost iPhone exclusivity, AT&T seems to be starting to release some decent Android devices, such as the HTC Inspire (Desire HD variant). I'm skeptical they would release the Desire Z, but maybe they will release a future HTC device with a QWERTY keyboard. One can only hope.
If the keyboard is not an absolute requirement, the Inspire looks like a very nice phone. Larger display than the Desire Z, 1GHz processor (faster then the Z), and a slightly better camera. I've actually been finding myself using Swype more and more, and the keyboard less and less. So that has me rethinking the whole QWERTY keyboard thing, a little bit. Although I still use it from time to time for longer texts and emails.
BTW, if you like the review, please click the "Thank you" button!
Jackos said:
Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?
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You're very welcome.
For me, spending the money was worth it. It was a lot of money to spend on a phone, but I absolutely love it. I tried to stick with WM as long as I could. But everything just works so much better on the Desire Z. I knew it would be a big improvement, but all my expectations were exceeded.
If you are in a market where your carrier offers this phone for a subsidized price, its a no-brainer.
Very nicely written
I have a TP2 now, also considering the Desire Z since it has a (rare these days) hardware keyboard.
Seeing how the DZ performs (especially when overclocked, wow!) does make me feel quite confident it's somewhat future-proof performance wise.
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
When my contract expires next month I can get a free DZ if I extend my contract.
I'll go to the T-Mobile store tomorrow and see if I can play around with one
ericino said:
Very nicely written
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
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Personally, I was finding myself using the tilt feature on the TP2 less and less. Lots of times, I found it easier to just slide the phone open, write a quick text, then close it quickly, without having to mess with tilting the screen up and down. But of course, this is a personal preference.
The only times I've been missing the tilt screen is while watching video. With the TP2, I could tilt the screen up, then place the phone down on a table to watch. HTC should have added a kickstand, like on the Desire HD. It would have been a very easy to add, and super useful.
Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?
ronh said:
Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?
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There is a paid Android app called Copilot, which is supposed to be pretty good, and does what you want. But I haven't personally used it. There are others, as well.
Also, the Euro version of the Desire Z has a feature of the "new" Sense called HTC Locations, which has a 30-day free trial, than once you pay the monthly fee or buy a lifetime license, you can navigate using maps downloaded to the SD card. Unfortunately, Locations and the Car Panel were removed in the Bell Canada version of the DZ. Likewise, the T-Mobile G2 does not have it, as it is Sense-free. But the feature can be obtained by flashing the stock Euro ROM to either the Bell DZ or the G2. I haven't done this, and I have no idea how well Locations works in the US. But comments by DZ users in the UK and Europe indicate they seem to like it.
i too miss my tilt 2, especially the tilts sliding kb. thats why i come back to these boards every now and again.
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
almost anything i could do with wm i cant do with android only better. android is way more reliable and the tilt2 was a touch underpowered.
as soon as someone comes out with a 4.3inch lcd with a sliding kb that will be my next phone
off topic, don't believe the hype about the evo battery being weak, i get 24-40 hrs per charge, average is probably around 30 hrs and that's with 2 weather apps, face book, 4 emails accounts and Google searches off and on all day with gps location and blue tooth on. i also have a stock rom, although its rooted.
btw tc excellent read.
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.
Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....
F2504x4 said:
Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....
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I was specifically asked for a comparison between the Touch Pro 2 and the Desire Z; for TP2 owners who may be interested in upgrading. If it was a straight up review of the DZ only, and no mention of the TP2, I would agree with you. But as you can see from reading my review, I make ample comparisons and references to the TP2, so I believe its appropriate here. The DZ is also a very logical upgrade from the TP2 versus just about every other phone on the market, due to its very similar form factor and same manufacturer.
You said I "have quite a few threads" about the DZ. But this is the only thread I started. I posted a reference to this review on 2 other threads started by others. Those threads were started by users looking for an upgrade similar to the TP2, so that actually reinforces my decision that this forum is the correct location for the review/comparison.
I did debate it for a while (of where to post), and your comment is not unreasonable. But I didn't see the Desire Z the best place to post it. The huge majority of the users on the Desire Z/Vision forum already own the phone, and they don't need to see a review for it. If the moderators don't agree with my judgment call, they can move the thread.
And you linked to the forum for the Desire, not the Desire Z. They are completely different phones.
Considering what HTC 7 Pro has become, looks like the Desire Z is the only one phone coming from HTC to replace the TP2. What a pity!
I'll wait until something new comes out to replace my PPC. TP2 still does a great job for me.
Thanks again for the review.
potna said:
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
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It true, with Swype, I actually find myself using the screen keyboard much more than I would have thought. In fact, for my next phone I may seriously consider one without a hardware keyboard . . . maybe. But I personally can't stand typing on-screen without Swype.
potna said:
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had that same thought about having a nav program that doesn't need a data connection, so I have a backup in case I am in an area with dodgy coverage, or for foreign use. I might check out something like Copilot, which is only $5 for the US maps (and interestingly $80 for Europe!).
I would like to thank you also for the comparison and ask you about what I haven't read elsewhere.
Is there ability for teleconferencing inDesire Z?
Besides the mentioned problem with the DZ's speaker there were a few times that the feature was (even more than welcome) life-saving while using my rhodium. That, and the Excel files editing.
Also, (a "pro-" feature, not mentioned elsewhere) what about video out?
Am I asking for too much?
Redpoint:
I too have made the upgrade, from TP2 to G2 (Desire Z). Your findings mirror mine almost exactly.
Just in case any one is curious, I'll add my 2 pence.
I still kind of miss the resistive touch screen (think gloves or stylus for precision), but the cap screen is über responsive, and as you said, multi touch is pretty sweet.
I do not miss the complete lack of development of applications for WM. At least at any corporate or popular apps level.
I do miss the great MS Office and Outlook integration. Android does play nice with Exchange, though.
FWIW: Tmo G2's do have a Office compatible suite that should work for docs and xls, but I didn't get a chance to use it. I flashed to a new ROM too fast
I still have the TP2, and will likely futz with it some more, but the G2/DZ is a worthy successor.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
calrification on pro2 vs DZ
Sir/s,
i would like to know if DZ has the following functionalities:
1. exchange sync of email, calendar and contacts.
2. when you download exchange email, is it in html format?
3. can DZ record 2 way voice call? (not via speakerphone)
Above are the features that im frequently using on pro2.
I loved my HTC Desire Z. It was my 2nd android phone after the HTC Dream and it just felt great to hold and use. Assuming of course that the HTC sense rom was ditched and CM was installed. I loved it.
Two years down the road the hardware keyboard starts to respond poorly to presses. I have to push firmly down some of the keys for them to work. I decide to go ahead and open it up for cleaning in the hopes that it will work better. As a result of my cleaning the keyboard now works even WORSE than before and is practically unusable at the top left corner.
HTC does not have service centers for my phone in Japan where I live so if I want to get it fixed I have to send it to Taiwan with UPS (already done it once for other problem) and the whole process is ridiculously expensive since the phone is no longer in warranty.
I find it kinda depressing that our gear just works for 2 years and has to be thrown away. On the other hand I partially accept responsibility for choosing to buy a handset that is not available in the country where I live.
I don't care that the phone runs an old version of android because I really like the hardware keyboard. So if I'm going to throw this phone away, what should I buy to replace it? i.e. What is the best hardware keyboard android phone out there right now? Please note I'm mainly interested in a great keyboard, not the phone specs.
there are tons of threads on this subject throught xda, i suggest digging a bit to see what others think
but hey, i feel for ya, i am a qwerty fanatic myself! i have a dream, a doubleshot, a sidekick 4g, and the vision, all have pretty good keyboards. the best of these four (to me) are the dream and the sk4g
now the doubleshot beats them all in specs but has the worst keyboard (still nice enough though) but if you are interested in new and a good keyboard try out the samsung relay 4g, test one out and the keyboard is pretty good and will beat any of my other four in performance.
I did a gsmarena search of all android physical keyboard phones* with at least as good spec as the Vision. I don't know how useful this'll be to you, in the UK I think the HTC Desire Z was the last keyboard phone sold. Most of the phones in that link are just "normal" phones with hw keyboards but are rebranded with sometimes completely different names, so if I were you I'd also try to match them up with their non-keyboard equivalents and read reviews about them also.
A big thing for me would also be the dev. Community, and also the support of the manufacturer itself; for that reason I'd go with a Samsung or Sony.
*what is the proper name for a phone with a physical keyboard? All the ones I think of are such a mouthful, if there isn't one we need a short, silly, memorable name for hw keyboard phones preferably just for the Vision forums... It would be kinda like an in joke :silly:
Samsung Galaxy Relay
My wife needed a qwerty after coming to Android from Blackberry, so we bought the Samsung Galaxy Relay. It's a great phone, a definite upward move from the G2/DesireZ, but I'm not sure of its availability outside the US.
What have you used to clean it? It sounds like if you either haven't cleaned it through;y enough, or damaged it. Hopefully the first.
Since no-one seems to be able to manufacture a qwerty android phone anymore (due to lack of demand from us? I don't think so) I'm a little surprised that the aftermarket niche hasn't picked up on this and created a small keyboard that is attachable to the backside of any phone.
This would open up huge alternatives regarding screen-size, upgradeability and also more choices when buying operator-locked phones. All phones would be qwerty-capable.