Develop Bugs

Poll: Marketplace: Keep It Open or Close It

The Marketplace section of XDA has been only open for a short time. There are currently 8 potential users in our community who have been ripped off and may not be capable of receiving their payments back and/or punishing the people that scammed them. There also exist a number of buyers that await their devices to be received but the sellers have not contacted them.
There are several benefits of selling on XDA and there are many drawbacks. Please let me remind you that this is a developers (or those interested in the processes, aka users like me) forum. Please take the time to reflect the benefits and the drawbacks and vote.
I know the poll results will lean towards keeping the Marketplace open because those who visit this section on a regular would want to keep using it as a resource. Yet there are many on this site that still do not have any idea that this marketplace exist, simply because they bookmark their device's section.
Please vote after reading the Fraud Thread,Thank You.
If you have new guidelines that will help deter criminals from scamming our members please post. Please note, your suggestions may be criticized.

My vote to third option. I dont believe in throwing the baby with the bath water. Everything faces problem in the beginning, so is this marketplace. Let's make it a better place.

Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.

|Jason8| said:
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with your opinion. What do you think about banning device sale transactions altogether?
Just like XDA bans warez but obviously users can PM each other regarding warez.

I would think that there is a way to keep the market section open, yet make it safer. I don't think it is XDA's responsibility to make sure every transaction is 100% safe, not even eBay can do that. I don't even think it is responsible to go above and beyond "buyer/seller beware". But I know this communitty and to simply leave it at "stock" isn't an option.
It has proven true that it is hard to identify a good scammer. Post counts, length of membership, and so forth have all proven indicators of trustworthiness, but not a guarantee. And while a guarantee surely isn't possible in reality, I know it is always the goal of those in this communitty to get it right and as close to perfect as possible.
I am currently trying to sell a couple phones, and half my worry is that people have enough trust and faith in me to feel comfortable buying from me. The other half is that I find a legit buyer. I can't even image being the actual buyer!
I feel that stricter guidelines and oversight will go a long way, although likely more time consuming as well. Perhaps making it so new listings have to get approved? And setting criteria for approval asking for photographic proof that the item exists? As well, maybe create an XDA paypal account, where the buyer pays XDA, and upon shipping confirmation/ receipt confirmation the funds are then transfered to the seller? This would put a lot of liability on XDA, which might not be plausable.
Ultimately, buyer and seller beware is and always will be the most important rule.

may555 said:
Although opening the market place means that many problems exist,which is seller make slow response to buying,I may strengthen to monitor.Opening the market place may improve the dynamic of the forum.
If you want to savvy more information about mobile phone, please come to [scamlink]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you give a link to a Kirf phone site... shakes head... maybe we can also look into strengthening membership requirements/ process?

XDA can't take guarantee for anything that happens in marketplace, that is something ebay doesn't take inspite of such a heavy fee amount they charge. I feel xda is the best way to share things like pocket pc phones in like minded people to get the get value for both buyer & seller. It would be there no matter you have the marketplace or not. Marketplace has provided outlet to all such dealings.
We can ponder over how to make it more secure, but giving marketplace an existential threat is not I am in agreement with.

Marketplace open!!
As I said before,
All transactions between particulars on the WWW have some risk.
If you are not willing to take that risk please do not use marketplace and go and buy to a regular store!
You should be aware that if you want to buy cheap there is always a risk!
Let´s continue with marketplace!!

I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.

Keep the market place.. I have used it for purchasing more than 1 phone, and lucky for me, my experiance here has been fantastic... I think people should pay for their transactions using a credit card... even with PayPal.. You can pay with credit card there.. That way if you are scammed and do no receive what you payed for, open up a dispute with both your credit card company as well as paypal.. evne if paypal can not "collect" anything, you credit card can cancel the transaction all together and take the money from paypal... (which will, in turn, make them want to look for the money a little harder, and even possibley bring up legal action againt the fraud monger!) In closing, KEEP THE MARKET PLACE...

I totally agree with 'Teej53214' and have voted for option 1.
I don't see why XDA should shoulder any responsibilty, nor have to police the marketplace,
since with all online dealing it is the buyers responsibility, not XDA's, to take adequate steps to protect himself.
as such, using a credit card is far the best way.

Yes, but at what point? A spammer will get a couple hundred posts in a few minutes, where as a legit member might not in a couple years.
As well, one of the most infamous scams thus far was carried out by a member with over 1000 posts, and 2 years of community involvement.

I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted

Ather said:
there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can we not delete it? Someone may suggest a new guideline, which could be useful for both seller/buyer

I may be new here, but i feel i'll be around for a while. I feel the Market Place is a great idea for everyone, but some guildlines should be improved for everyoens experience.
I feel that the suggestions (option 3?) would to invoke a Post Count Requirement, but to add to this a review (to enter into the market place) must be made by an admin to make sure all posts to that post count are not spam to scam.
I also feel that the market place should incorporate some kind of market system. I know there's plugins for vBulletin that would allow such a thing, or better yet, force all users to mediate through another site for sales (eBay?). This way we'll know they're scammers...
ie if someone posts a acution on eBay for the sole purpose to sell an item (Buy it now at discolsed price in forum) and they're new user on eBay then more caution flags are thrown up... (Could use many other auction sites, etc).
Edit:
Maybe enforce some kind of physical conversation about products as well, phone call, etc?
Just my $.02

Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.

skuliaxe said:
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.

redbandana said:
As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12

12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to repeat my suggestions: I was once really involved at notebookreview and this is how we ran things
1. Require a set form for selling and buying. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=243274
2. Require a picture with proof of ownership. (a photo of the item with a piece of paper containing the username and a dated newspaper)
3. Require feedback sources: Amazon, ebay, heatware.
4. Reference previous sales. (some sort of internal feedback system)
I think this can help make the Marketplace a bit safer to everyone involved.

12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both of those could be restrictive to real sellers, and not actually scare off scammers.
The spam guys will get a couple hundred posts really quickly. If you toss in a 1 year time limit type thing, then people that are active, like me, wouldn't even be able to sell because I haven't been a member for over a year.
I think we should ask sellers to post at least 5 pics, with their username and a newspaper pictured in one. As well, they need to send their contact info to the section mod. They also need to put a random word picked by the mod and PM to them on the piece of paper with their username on it. Only then would the post actually be made public.
As well, you can ask that they also have shown themself a member of this community, either through length of time here, post count, etc., but subject to the mods descretion.

Want to be an Author on my blog?

Ok well I'm looking for some good quality authors who can bring some good stuff to my blog.
**Link removed**
It's mostly about Android but I'd like to make it do with everything technology related. From product reviews all the way to interesting graphical work.
I need someone who will be dedicated and who can help get more and more visitors on my blog.
I've had my blog for only a month now and already got over 70000 views, a lot of the visitors on my blog are from this forum but I need visitors to come from all over the internet and from a lot of different forums.
If you think you could help me get my blog out there or would like to become an author email me and let me know.
[email protected]

Am I right in thinking that any link on that site generates revenue for you?
Please confirm.
WB

Nope not any link.
Only the ads.

Thread closed as the soliciting for paid work on the external site and the nature of the site itself constitutes advertising a commercial site/service which breaches XDA rule 11.
WB

Time for a MP mod?

Lately we have seen many users been scammed over here,, and with the lack of stickies its really difficult to know if the trader was bad or good for scams( had that recently where a member had scammed another member, and then one day he PM'd me asking to trade, but i was aware of it, but others may not be.) no ppl are getting banned who cheat on this forum. We need a mod who has traded before and just for this section, i dont think its hard to have one mod here who can delete threads, ban users who misuse the MP, make stickies on threads which have disputes, he can also act as a middle man if the User's chooses to. if you support me along this road, then please reply so we can have one

I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.

Cheeze[iT] said:
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah we need it, he could also verify the IP address is not of a scammer or near by.

I agree aswell although I've only done two trades here both of which wer successful there's always a bad apple out there ready to scam some unfortunate person and I personally think we should be doing everything we can to prevent it
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster

it would be great ive wanted to offer on sum trades just have been kinda checking things out to see who is legit because we know everyone is not trust worthy

I think a Feedback system will be more helpful than moderators. Having feedback and mod will be even better.

Ya we need feedback, it will make checking someones transaction history very easy.

On my Suzuki Hayabusa forum you must have 50 posts to sell something - this is easily done with a simple vbulletin mod. The mod makes it possible for someone with less than 50 posts to browse and post in a thread in the "for sale" forums, but impossible to start a thread. I know you might think it's easy for someone to signup and post 50 times, but members notice that pretty damn quick - and we ban anyone who tries. We also have iTrader (another vbulletin mod) and once a sale is completed one of my Admins will post and ask the buyer and seller to post feedback.
The fact that people sell $6000+ motorcycles makes it a necessity to police and manage the "for sale" forums to the best of our ability for the protection of my members.
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.

biggeorgef said:
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i deeply agree with this one , there should be zero tolerance , no posting suspension , no infractions , just insta-ban

pinstack.com has a "trust" meter, I've found it very useful at times. Plus this gives a better all-around feel for someone instead of just what's gone on in the marketplace.
http://forums.pinstack.com/trust.php

How about for now, we try and get people to use HeatWare? You can build a rep that's damn hard to fake.

There is always someone willing to take the role and help out.
Furthermore we have a "thanks" system, so I don't see it being too difficult to add some sort of "trust" system as previously mentioned. Though if there is an acceptable volunteer for thread mod, that would be a good idea too.

I also vouch for heatware. Great service and have used it on many forum trades sections.

or post names of scammers until mods start banning them.
TheAndroider
iDroidfan
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App

Plus guys get scammed when they do things in private. Keep as much as possible public and you are safer since everyone reads the posts and someone will know if one of the parties is bogus.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App

i suggest rules(vBulletin mod) to be able to use marketplace:
1.over 50 posts
2. member for atleast 6months
in addition to:
1.transparency-every single deal should be public, pm's allowed for chatting etc, but all conditions, offers etc will be sellers&buyers thing to do in their thread(go public if you don't wanna get scammed)
2.bans for people (proved)scamming-hasn't been on xda 1 week from bogus deal, didn't respond buyer's PM's, sent fake/empty product etc
3.more mods assinged to this part of forum-"too good to be true" offers will be removed/reported in short period of time, preventing anyone to reply, and could be reactivated when seller responds to mod's pm and proves he's legit and has item for sale(especially first few sales)
4. whitelist of members who made over 20 deals succsessfully in longer period of time, separate items, with higher value(not sending 20 e.g. batteries at once).

killster said:
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do those 37 count the ones you committed to and then backed out of killster? Seems mlee and i are not the only ones. Not the same as scamming but questionable nonetheless.

As per Marketplacer Rule #1:
The XDA-Developers.com Market Place, hereafter MP, is provided free to members with at least 8 posts at XDA-Developers.com. XDA-Developers.com, its moderators, administrators, owners and legal advisors do not warrant, guarantee or endorse any item offered for sale or trade on this forum.
SIMPLE ENGLISH: Trade at your own Risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have many Senior moderators who actively monitor the Marketplace forum We don't need anymore.
XDA will not get actively involved in a Marketplace dispute under normal circumstances. And we will never act as a "middle man". The above quoted rule underlines this.

Just to elaborate on what the_scotsman says above.
There are resource issues in providing checks on those trading in the Marketplace. We simply don't have these resources in terms of people to monitor trades, or systems to test or validate Users.
Equally, we do not have the resources to investigate when things go wrong. Inevitably in such cases, there will be conflicting accounts of what has happened and we have no way to prove or disprove the claims that are made by the parties in dispute. This is not an area with which we would ever suggest we can become involved.
Just occassionally we will disable the account of a member if there are repeated claims that purchased items have not been received, but Users should NEVER assume that we are checking sellers, because we are not.
We have no plans to bring in a checking system because with the resources we have, we simply wish to provide a basic noticeboard for sellers and a forum for threads where the transaction can be conducted in public. We do not Moderate the Marketplace except in a very cursory way, because it cannot be done reliably and more importantly it would give the FALSE impression that we were checking and validating the trades and sales in the Forum; in other words it might make buyers feel more secure in buying and yet the risk is ALL theirs.
It may be possible for us to implement some kind of User rating system whereby Users, not Moderators or Admin, can rate a Member according to how well or badly a sale/trade has gone. I understand this is being considered. Nevertheless, it would still be "buyer beware!".
If you are looking to buy and want guarantees and insurance if things go wrong, then our Marketplace Forum is not the place to buy! That said, if you are tempted to buy, then it may be possible for you to carry out some checks yourself, by looking at post history, previous sales if any and perhaps even a few checks using Google. You might also prefer to deal only with Members you have known over many months, even years!
Mike

Link to similar forums

To: XDA Developers Forum
I spent so long trying to recover my password (your Captcha is insensitive to humans) that I searched my own old records and found it.
I also found a Paypal payment for $10.00 USD to Rob van Egdom as "XDA File Server"
Unfortunately, I find the tone of your forum too 'dominant' and classroom to be of any use to me.
Could you please suggest links to other forums where I might discuss some ideas on MIFI and mobile devices or anything similar.so that I may cut my losses and get on with what I am doing.
With kind regards,
Donald O'Sullivan
cc [email protected]

Hi,
AFAIK saying it to you can break the 11th forum rule, so sorry, but I think there's no answer for you here. The best in your case is searching in Google.
11. Don’t post with the intention of selling something.
* Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. Proprietors of for-pay products or services, may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or a free version of their product for XDA users and to offer support, but not to post with the intention of selling. This includes promoting sites similar / substantially similar to XDA-Developers.com.
* Do not post press releases, announcements, links to trial software or commercial services, unless you’re posting an exclusive release for XDA-Developers.com.
* Encouraging members to participate in forum activities on other phone related sites is prohibited.
* Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.
* Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if both of the following conditions are met:
A) The site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership, who actively maintains an XDA-Developers support thread(s) / posts, related to the download.
B) The site is a relatively small, personal website without commercial advertising / links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
~Lord
"Time is too short to cry, long enough to try." - March of Time (Helloween)
Sent from my KitKat Nexus 10

Salahoona said:
To: XDA Developers Forum
I spent so long trying to recover my password (your Captcha is insensitive to humans) that I searched my own old records and found it.
I also found a Paypal payment for $10.00 USD to Rob van Egdom as "XDA File Server"
Unfortunately, I find the tone of your forum too 'dominant' and classroom to be of any use to me.
Could you please suggest links to other forums where I might discuss some ideas on MIFI and mobile devices or anything similar.so that I may cut my losses and get on with what I am doing.
With kind regards,
Donald O'Sullivan
cc [email protected]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since you're asking for info about other forums, rather than trying to push people to them, there's no issue here about rule breaking. I understand if you're not happy with a site that you'd want to find a different one, but we're really not the people to ask. I'd recommend simply searching for alternatives using an internet search provider of your choice.
There are tons of other tech related sites out there, so it should be very simple to find something more suited to you and your needs.
I hope you find what you're looking for

[No credits, day-based licenses] Bootloader Unlock Remote.

I would love provide my cheapest service for all here using Huawei, but in the end, I'm not getting that part easy and we'll, since my tools are for lifetime based then it will be okay work with you guys, in the following days, I'll be waiting some of you comment here around, I'll be selecting people to do the bootloader unlock, free of any cost, in exchange of recommendations, you are not getting that part easy ? Well, how to say...
Bootloader unlock here is free but
Just for a few ones, they will test and post results, in the meantime if it's allowed, as we know there's options to unlock your bootloader but this solution may have failed when you walkthrough, because we have not much time for, knowledge or even the mood to try it, or simply you handle a lot of things and cannot carry on cause that.
In this case, then let me help
Requirements:
-Team Viewer.
-A Windows PC.
-A Huawei Device.
-A USB Cable.
-At least 10MB ISP.
Get prepared guys, your devices are waiting for something awesome!
Contact me or simply comment here

@Mafworld
Just a reminder about the XDA Forum Rules. Here's an excerpt:
...
11. Don’t post with the intention of selling something.
Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. Proprietors of for-pay products or services, may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or a free version of their product for XDA users and to offer support, but not to post with the intention of selling. This includes promoting sites similar / substantially similar to XDA-Developers.com.
Do not post press releases, announcements, links to trial software or commercial services, unless you’re posting an exclusive release for XDA-Developers.com.
Encouraging members to participate in forum activities on other phone related sites is prohibited.
Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.
Off-site downloads from sites requiring registration are NOT encouraged but may be permitted if both of the following conditions are met:
A) The site belongs to a member of XDA-Developers with at least 1500 posts and 2 years membership, who actively maintains an XDA-Developers support thread(s) / posts, related to the download.
B) The site is a relatively small, personal website without commercial advertising / links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)
(...)
13. Advertising and Income Generation
Commercial advertising, advertising referral links, pay-per-click links, all forms of crypto-mining and other income generating methods are forbidden. Do not use XDA-Developers as a means to make money.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just wanted to give you a heads-up that we do not accept paid unlock services, their promotion or advertisement. This includes private messages. As soon as you don't offer your unlock service for all XDA members for free, this thread will be closed.
Regards
Oswald Boelcke
Senior Moderator

Yeah, that's something I've made clear since, I've already read rules, so instead I've decided to do it for some users
Oswald Boelcke said:
@Mafworld
Just a reminder about the XDA Forum Rules. Here's an excerpt:
I just wanted to give you a heads-up that we do not accept paid unlock services, their promotion or advertisement. This includes private messages. As soon as you don't offer your unlock service for all XDA members for free, this thread will be closed.
Regards
Oswald Boelcke
Senior Moderator
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Mafworld said:
Yeah, that's something I've made clear since, I've already read rules, so instead I've decided to do it for some users
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks very much for your fast response. Maybe I wasn't clear enough: Just for some users or e.g. temporarily won't be sufficient. It has to be for all users and permanently.
Regards
Oswald Boelcke

I cannot cover all user indeed, as developers can't offer ETA of their work, and btw you were clear enough, is just that, everyone got something in their life to do, so this is why I come here, trying to test a method which involves part of my tools used back in the day for same purposes, regarding about unlock process, yeah will be a service but outside of xda as rules mandate to not offer services here! I just want do test and confirm up to which device is possible do the bootloader unlock if the case presents.

i hope you can help me with my Nova 3i