Develop Bugs

Will WP7 stay one step behind?

With the addition of a gyroscope (see 1:25 in the video) and the 960 x 640 screen to the iPhone 4, certainly WP7 developers will try to one-up or match Apple on these features. This makes me wonder if we'll end up with a Windows Phone 7 market with tons of different hardware features and form-factors (an achilles heel for the dead Windows Mobile market) that would create a hell for developers. Or, will WP7 be perpetually one step behind Apple in these regards?

wp7 has a gyroscope. a gyroscope isnt a matter of hardware as much as it is programming. obv it requires hardware though dont get me wrong.
pretty much its like this....wp7 releases in october. they arent going to be bested by whats released in june. if you found out about this recently, imagine how long ago windows found out about it.

davidstre said:
wp7 has a gyroscope. a gyroscope isnt a matter of hardware as much as it is programming. obv it requires hardware though dont get me wrong.
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Sorry, but I think only the iPhone 4 has the gyroscope so far. Not to be confused with accelerometer (which both devices have). Check out the video link in the OP.
I understand that manufacturers will try to compete. But the problem is, is you don't want to have so many different hardware capabilities between WP7 phones as soon as they are released. It will just fragment the market and make the software suck. For example, find good accelerometer support on windows mobile or an app that takes GOOD advantage of WVGA screens.

WP7 devices aren't supposed to have gyroscopes, only accelerometers ("g-sensors"). And yes, these are hardware components.

WhyBe said:
But the problem is, is you don't want to have so many different hardware capabilities on WP7 as soon as it is released. It will just fragment the market and make the software suck.
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Well, adding gyroscope will fragment the appstore as well, won't it?

vangrieg said:
Well, adding gyroscope will fragment the appstore as well, won't it?
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Thus the point of my thread. If WP7 doesn't hit the market with these features, it will be perpetually behind Apple. If it DOES have these features upon RTM, they haven't been announced yet and it flies in the face of Microsofts already announced strict hardware standards. Either way it doesn't look good.
Gyroscope /= accelerometer.

Well, I'm not at all convinced that the gyroscope will add that much to the user experience in practice. And at least for a year or so developers will build apps that will work without one, so it'll play a marginal role. You can substitute pretty much everything a gyroscope does with a g-sensor and a compass, IMO.

vangrieg said:
Well, I'm not at all convinced that the gyroscope will add that much to the user experience in practice. And at least for a year or so developers will build apps that will work without one, so it'll play a marginal role. You can substitute pretty much everything a gyroscope does with a g-sensor and a compass, IMO.
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I think the iPhone 4 will get those apps a lot sooner than a year just because the hardware specs and phone upgrade path are so streamlined in that market.
Some creative people will come up with something, even if it's just a game.
Gyroscopes, I believe, add a level of precision and responsiveness that you don't get with accelerometers and compass alone.
I want MS to step their game up before RTM and not try to rationalize 2nd best. I expect nothing less than something sexy and amazing come end of year from MS and partners.

Well, I'm afraid it's not just up to MS, and it's too late for OEMs to change their designs, find suppliers etc. etc. I'm not even sure there is capacity to produce enough gyroscopes to satisfy Apple's demand and then some - we're talking about production growth to tens of millions from essentially zero.

I don't think a gyroscope will be a deal maker/breaker. If you are into game phone, you will notice a larger screen and X Box Live before wondering if it would be better with a gyroscope.
The Wii sold a lot but it never lived to its potential. There aren't that many Wii games that used the controllers better than Nintendo's Wii sports resort.

A gyroscope's usefullness is subjective. But I would prefer my phone to have it and it be widely supported by developers. Another losing point for the WP7 phones upon release will be the WVGA screen (compared to the iPhone 4 screen). Maybe many people won't know the difference, but as a photographer who uses his phone to show off pics, the higher the res of my phone the better.
My main point is, I don't want MS and partners to be perpetually one generation behind the competition. They need to be innovators on the software and hardware side.

I'm sure Samsung will implement their SuperAMOLED tech into WP7 devices. And S-AMOLED is pretty much the same as the retina display. The resolution is not the same but 800x480 on a 3.8 screen plus super vivid colors and sunlight readability is absoluetly on par with the iPhone 4. In fact Apple is playing catch-up here
You know, I've been thrilled after the Jobs-keynote. But as soon as my brain got sober from all the marketing blahblah I started to realize Apple didn't innovate that much with the iPhone4. Sure it is good but I am absolutely sure that HTC and Samsung can best this until october or so.

WhyBe said:
Another losing point for the WP7 phones upon release will be the WVGA screen (compared to the iPhone 4 screen). Maybe many people won't know the difference, but as a photographer who uses his phone to show off pics, the higher the res of my phone the better.
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I'm a photographer too and I think WVGA is quite good for the form factor.
Have you used OLED screens? They are great for photos and the resolution isn't even true WVGA.
The main thing I'm missing in WM6.5 is color management, or even just an icc profile for my phone which I can convert to manually.

As i came to know the size of the screen is the same on the iPhone 4, this means that the Pixels density is too high.
Notice that the eye cannot see anything smaller than 0.1mm and in the iPhone case it is 0.07 so the pixels cannot be seen by the naked eye. if the iPhone's screen was larger (maybe like the HD2) it would make more sense to include this high resolution.
Anyhow, choosing this resolution is a matter of technical implementation as the old one is 480x320 (new is 2*480x2*320) so this means that all they have to do to allow old iPhone apps to run full screen is to render the screen with 2 times hight and 2 times width (much easier and way better than the iPad).
Now regarding viewing photos! come on, you need a full HD TV to see a photo taken by a 2Mega Pixels camera.

CSMR said:
I'm a photographer too and I think WVGA is quite good for the form factor.
Have you used OLED screens? They are great for photos and the resolution isn't even true WVGA.
The main thing I'm missing in WM6.5 is color management, or even just an icc profile for my phone which I can convert to manually.
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Yeah, my X1 and TP2 look pretty nice displaying the pics. Only time I've seen OLED in action they had animation videos running...no real people. I'll have to look into the color accuracy.
anaadoul said:
As i came to know the size of the screen is the same on the iPhone 4, this means that the Pixels density is too high.
Notice that the eye cannot see anything smaller than 0.1mm and in the iPhone case it is 0.07 so the pixels cannot be seen by the naked eye. if the iPhone's screen was larger (maybe like the HD2) it would make more sense to include this high resolution.
[...........]
Now regarding viewing photos! come on, you need a full HD TV to see a photo taken by a 2Mega Pixels camera.
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The MP of the original photo is irrelevant (I shoot 14.2MP). The high PPI (of mobile screen) just gives you the ultimate sharpness. WVGA displaying of photos is quite nice, but I think the 960x640 should be that much better. I'm wondering what's the likely hood of seeing a 2x(800x480) anytime soon? Probably nil on mobile form-factors.
Has anyone found out the CPU speed of the new iPhone 4 ? EDIT: Never mind...

Microsoft just built this OS and Iphone has been around for years now. They will eventually get all the features packed in that you would expect to have it's just going to take sometime because they want to bring those features to you in a manner that is easy to use so they aren't going to just throw it in there and call it good. They released an article saying that it will probably take around 5 years to get every single feature that they have planned into the devices and working the way it should. They made something that looks great and although right now it lacks functionality of Windows 6.5 it;s way more polished and no one can deny that. If you want to maintain your backwards compatability get yourself a Windows Phone handheld edition when it comes out.

WhyBe said:
Yeah, my X1 and TP2 look pretty nice displaying the pics. Only time I've seen OLED in action they had animation videos running...no real people. I'll have to look into the color accuracy.
The MP of the original photo is irrelevant (I shoot 14.2MP). The high PPI (of mobile screen) just gives you the ultimate sharpness. WVGA displaying of photos is quite nice, but I think the 960x640 should be that much better. I'm wondering what's the likely hood of seeing a 2x(800x480) anytime soon? Probably nil on mobile form-factors.
Has anyone found out the CPU speed of the new iPhone 4 ? EDIT: Never mind...
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Hell there aren't even many 17" monitors that have more then a 1600x960 display so I doubt it will happen on a mobile but they do have support for HVGA which means that by scaling that 2x they can get there 960x640 and match what Apple has to offer and I bet the resolution would look so much better on a 4.3" device. I don't even know how people use a 3.5" these days lol.

I don't mind small screens. I love the SE X1 form factor. The bigger TP2 is cool too though.
If it takes 5 years for Microsoft to implement everything into WP7, then imagine the features being added to the competition products for the same 5 years. In order to catch up, MS is going to need to come up with some revolutionary ideas (to give the 'impression' of being ahead like Apple did) and work twice as hard as the other developers.

WhyBe said:
I don't mind small screens. I love the SE X1 form factor. The bigger TP2 is cool too though.
If it takes 5 years for Microsoft to implement everything into WP7, then imagine the features being added to the competition products for the same 5 years. In order to catch up, MS is going to need to come up with some revolutionary ideas (to give the 'impression' of being ahead like Apple did) and work twice as hard as the other developers.
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I don't think their 5 year plan involves catching up to the competition I think they are more about how long it's going to take to pass the competition in terms of offerings. If it was just about adding what's out there now then they should just give up already. I don't think they are that naive. I think they are pulling out there most important features right out the gate which makes the most sense. Xbox live intergration, Zune services, a better marketplace, and a great marketing campaign. These are what the average consumer is looking for. Cut and paste, 3rd party multitasking, etc is not going to cross the average person's mind when they look at a phone but it will make the experience better and that's what they are going for next.
I use the TP2 right now. I like the 3.7" screen but I still think something HD2 size with a keyboard would be the greatest device on the planet. But that's because I love landscape sliders but not everyone else shares the same opinion.

Its hard to say if they'll pass the competition or not, because Im sure the competition is working on some innovations too. This makes the task very difficult for MS unless they're working on some groundbreaking technology no one else has.

Who is planning to stick with WinMo7?

I made this poll last time, but this was around when the news of WP7 was just getting out. I'm sure that from then and now, we've learned a lot more about the OS and MS has released a lot more info regarding the OS. So with that being said, I was just curious to see if there were any change of hearts.
Vote on!

I plan on buying a windows phone whenever some nice looking hardware comes to Verizon. I might have to wait a while since ill have to buy one at full price because my upgrade isn't until 2012.

Never will I ever choose anything besides Windows 7 or their webcam for my products.
Ad notifications? What kind of nonsense is this?
And here is the real nail in the coffin:
"At launch, Windows Phone 7 will not have the ability to cut, copy, and paste. It will recognize telephone numbers and addresses, but Microsoft says the majority of users don't need 'cut, copy, and paste'."
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
I hope they die in the mobile arena. Their efforts have been haphazard and poor. If it does turn out to be good (doubtful since I've used Windows Mobile since the Blackjack) I don't see anything it offers that Android or iPhone doesn't already do, and better.
Fun phones are the iPhone and Android systems. They're also very good for work as well.
Blackberry handles business as usual.
And Microsoft, your best move was investing in Apple.

Dratini said:
Never will I ever choose anything besides Windows 7 or their webcam for my products.
Ad notifications? What kind of nonsense is this?
And here is the real nail in the coffin:
"At launch, Windows Phone 7 will not have the ability to cut, copy, and paste. It will recognize telephone numbers and addresses, but Microsoft says the majority of users don't need 'cut, copy, and paste'."
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
I hope they die in the mobile arena. Their efforts have been haphazard and poor. If it does turn out to be good (doubtful since I've used Windows Mobile since the Blackjack) I don't see anything it offers that Android or iPhone doesn't already do, and better.
Fun phones are the iPhone and Android systems. They're also very good for work as well.
Blackberry handles business as usual.
And Microsoft, your best move was investing in Apple.
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Sounds like a guy who is been around for a long time !!?. I respect your opinion but it is windows mobile what made this forum what it is today. So let it die?
It depends what kind of user you are, I have always been a fan of windows because its customizable, what is for me an added value. Now with the coming of mobile7, I dont know, but I´m sure we can support and make the OS better around here.
Iphone is in my opinion a hyped phone (especially the iphone4) and clearly is not as good as the previous versions because of its hardware malfunction.
Respecting Andriod, I like the phones and they are great but still I´m staying old fashioned and try and stick to WinMo.
As you can notice I will buy a phone with the new OS because I´m just curious and its flawless integrated with windows platforms in private and corporate perspective. What i believe is the advantage of Microsoft software.

I will buy a WP7 device in Germany as soon a device similar to the HD2 is released. For me are a display around 4 inch, arround 448 MB RAM, at least 16GB flash memory important. An amoled display is prefered.
Why WP7? As a developer I have with Silverlight much more fun and I have no fun to flash my device regularry to get the rom to a quality level that should be out of box. Is's a shame but big thanks to this board for making the good HD2 roms

Just waiting on what T-Mobile USA will bring us

Dratini said:
With that attitude, do I trust this company for phones? No. The iPhone 2G had more features than this!
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Sure it did.
Main difference between WP7 and other mobile OSes, that it is being complex. iOS has just core stuff - kernel, some core APIs and few built-in apps like mail or safari. Android adds some wannabe support for integrating facebook, today widgets. WP7 comes as latest one with around 2 year development as of now, including full facebook integration at launch, combining and integrating your contacts into facebook. This was just an example, that WP7 is way more complex system, than any other mobile OS we have now. It allows integration into hubs, ... while all you can do on iOS is just add your icon on app launcher. No integration into core apps.
Also the biggest fun will begin shortly. Possibility to develop for PC-Xbox360-WP7 with one source code (and just optimizing user input for mouse, joystick or touchscreen) is f...in promising. And Silverlight, C# and XNA are awesome to play and create with, compared to native coding.
I will be getting WP7 as soon as I get the opportunity. Love the UI (I'd just say more colors into icons in the applist). Love the possibilities. Love MS!

OndraSter said:
Sure it did.
Main difference between WP7 and other mobile OSes, that it is being complex. iOS has just core stuff - kernel, some core APIs and few built-in apps like mail or safari. Android adds some wannabe support for integrating facebook, today widgets. WP7 comes as latest one with around 2 year development as of now, including full facebook integration at launch, combining and integrating your contacts into facebook. This was just an example, that WP7 is way more complex system, than any other mobile OS we have now. It allows integration into hubs, ... while all you can do on iOS is just add your icon on app launcher. No integration into core apps.
Also the biggest fun will begin shortly. Possibility to develop for PC-Xbox360-WP7 with one source code (and just optimizing user input for mouse, joystick or touchscreen) is f...in promising. And Silverlight, C# and XNA are awesome to play and create with, compared to native coding.
I will be getting WP7 as soon as I get the opportunity. Love the UI (I'd just say more colors into icons in the applist). Love the possibilities. Love MS!
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what?!!
xbox-wp7-pc game integration is a possibility? but how is a phone going to be as capable as the three cores plus graphics core of a 360?

As soon as Sprint gets a killer 4G enabled one. Bamn! I'm there.
Gota get on the leading edge again and start promoting the thing to my friends/family/co-workers/etc.

theomni said:
what?!!
xbox-wp7-pc game integration is a possibility? but how is a phone going to be as capable as the three cores plus graphics core of a 360?
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First of all, WP7 has a lower target resolution than XBox and PCs. You also can use a lower resolution than the native resolution of WP7 and the phone will resize the image "for free" using a dedicated chip. To target the different input formats, you have to tweak the code and use conditional compilation (like #If Xbox; #If WP7; #If Windows). If you want to utilize the full potential of each platform, there may be many conditional compilation instructions, but it is possible. Depending on the architecture, the main game logic can remain the same and does not need (many) changes.

Ima stick with it. WP7 is nice.

Yep, just as Reihnold described it.
The main logic and core is the same, you just optimalize it for different input and ofc slower HW (but with coming Hummingbird etc we will see reaching Xbox on WVGA screen in few years I bet). You disable some cool effects etc, but you do that with those #If Xbox360 fxRainbow.Enable = true; #Endif etc, so nothing huge. Compared to Linux-Android it is something quite easy. Mostly because of awesome IDE.

Wouldn't consider anything else.

I will definitely buy one. Love MS products and services and using them all integrated on my phone is the biggest thing they could ever made!
Cloud is the future

I'd be more interested to know what percentage of people would switch to wp7 in an iphone and/or android forum really. That to me is a better indicator of how well wp7 will do at launch.

I eventually want to switch, but ill do it further down the line when the OS matures.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I voted for sticking with WP7, all the latest videos I've seen show how super smooth it is so I wont be switching to clunky Andriod anytime soon

I am waiting to actually see how well the office, RDP and other apps integrate into windows before I pull the trigger on one. I really could care less about facebook integration or twitter or any social networking. Sure I use facebook, but I want to keep my contacts seperate from my social networking. I want a business device first. Not to say I won't try one out, but I intend on keeping my Tilt2 around unless they release a WM6.5 handset with a keyboard and a faster processor and more RAM! like that will happen...
And if it comes to switching platforms, android is next in line. No apple products ever in my house.

kdj67f said:
No apple products ever in my house.
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I second that

I am so ready to purchase one of Windows Phone 7 phones! Why? please... for those ppl who say WP7 is not as great as their beloved WM 6 series, you gotta let your ego go. And yes, i have HD2. So this is a customer with experiences with hacking my device and use cooked ROMs. And yes i hate using cooked ROMs. Althogh i use cooked ROMs that looks like stock version atm. But i am planning to purchase it in this holiday or wait for htc to announce HD3 the beast! I really want my phone to have 1.5ghz or something downgraded clocked duo cpu.

Why did you buy WP7?

Just trying to bring some positivity to the forums.
I bought WP7 because it's got the best music player on the market, a smooth UI, xbox live integration, great games with the promise of even better which is completely believable after seeing such titles as ilomilo, xbox live integration, it's range of hardware selection which though it can't touch android beats out iphones selection, expandable memory, and because overall it's just got the most beautiful UI. It never feels like they took the best from another OS and just improved it.

I had a Zune HD and loved it so much that when i saw WP7 had taken the metro ui, Zune media and xbox live and put it on a phone that was it for me.
Zune is so far ahead of itunes it makes them look out of date (bar the remote control features this needs to be implemented asap)
Quality for me is so much more important than quantity. Other phones have a lot of cool stuff but none look and feel like WP7 or the quality of its media.
Then the cherry comes xbox live this is it for me, I am a huge gamer and xbox live is where it is at, period. All in all this is the greatest user phone ever it may lack high end features but it more than makes up for it by doing what it does better smoother and sexier then any other device you can buy today.

Loved the look of the UI, and Xbox live intergration. I bought a HD7 for the big screen, I was bored of my iPhone too

REason
I have tried all other OS and I am somewhat I would say loyal to Windows mobile. Honestly I sortof got tired of having to update my device bi-weekly or resetting device to do certain things, and for all the features it had build in I had purchased from someone for wm6.5. Like checking my friends online status on xbox live, I loved the zune interface I had a regular not an HD but my kid brother had one and loved it. I am optimistic they will enable more functions built and I am patiently waiting on the other things from 6.5 to be ported and more. And I was somewhat jealous of every other phones bigger screen (than my tp2)

Got pissed with Android, waiting for updates and the UI. I hated WP7 first, because I was in love with Android guy, but after some time I saw what **** it is and just started to get to know with WP7. And then I realised that this OS will be perfect for my needs and after some time, I sold my Desire Z, it had defect with keyboard (before I had desire, which had defects too) and bought Omnia7. It's perfect, I'm perfectionist and this phone is just awesome, no single flaw so far...

Also came from iOS (iPhone 3G, 3GS) Android (nexus one). Reasons why i switched to WP7:
1. Xbox live and also their promise of great games, as i also am a gamer
2. Metro UI, slick and smooth. It just works
3. Xbox live
4. Zune
5. Xbox live

It does what I need it to do and does it efficiently.

1) I liked how the UI looked
2) I want something fast
3) I wanted something that was standardized (with minimum system specs) so I could expect apps to work with it for a while
4) I wanted something different
5) I didn't want to have to spend time tweaking my phone in order to get it to work well.
6) XBOX Live
7) Fast camera

1. Its smooth and fast
2. Its different
3. Its v1.0 of an OS, something I hadn't had before
4. Got tired of tweaking the hell out of winmo
5. Tried android on the hd2 and it reminded me of IOS, just laggier, with no promise of device updates.
6. All the multimedia options: netflix, slingbox, bitbop, zune for music, zune for video, zune handles all my podcasts
7. It doesn't freeze up for me, ever! (OK once since US launch, but even then it soft reset itself)
8. Developers: the apps were are getting seem to be at least as good as IOS and look better and smoother than the same apps on android (if they even have them)
9. Games: once again, on par with IOS games, most android phones can't handle top games. Definitely better than Winmo games of the same name.
10. Notice how I didn't say enterprise or office integration, etc. My phone is a toy to keep me occupied at work, when out with the family and there is down time, at the gym on the treadmill, etc.
11. It's nice to show off a new feature/app of the phone to someone and not have the phone freeze on you!!!

Getting Older and Wiser ?
I came from a WM 6.5 environment where I tweaked, flashed new ROMs and Radios, and updated applications for several hours a week. What I wanted was:
. No more stylus, fingers only (I won't get into a fight over WM 6.5, no matter what I did, it was NEVER totally finger friendly).
. Larger screen (at least 4.0", my eyes aren't getting any better).
. Faster processor, more memory
. Fluid and fast OS/UI
. Something that just works and does not REQUIRE tweaking and endless flashing
. Apps that are updated automatically (some 6.5 ROMs and apps support this, but not integrated seamlessly)
. Something that let's ME use IT and doesn't use ME.
I am finished with tweaking and flashing. I did it in the beginning because I thought I had to in order to get a phone the way I liked it. After WP7, I understand there is no real need, I just got so used to it. I thought it was "normal". I now realize how much time I wasted and how the OS was driving me to waste time rather than save time.

JamesAllen said:
I came from a WM 6.5 environment where I tweaked, flashed new ROMs and Radios, and updated applications for several hours a week. What I wanted was:
. No more stylus, fingers only (I won't get into a fight over WM 6.5, no matter what I did, it was NEVER totally finger friendly).
. Larger screen (at least 4.0", my eyes aren't getting any better).
. Faster processor, more memory
. Fluid and fast OS/UI
. Something that just works and does not REQUIRE tweaking and endless flashing
. Apps that are updated automatically (some 6.5 ROMs and apps support this, but not integrated seamlessly)
. Something that let's ME use IT and doesn't use ME.
I am finished with tweaking and flashing. I did it in the beginning because I thought I had to in order to get a phone the way I liked it. After WP7, I understand there is no real need, I just got so used to it. I thought it was "normal". I now realize how much time I wasted and how the OS was driving me to waste time rather than save time.
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ah yes, the number 1 reason I got wp7, to actually use the phone, instead of always tweaking/fixing it!

1/. I had a Zune HD which I enjoy immensely, WP7 is Zune HD+++
2/. I play my XBL games more than my actual XBOX games, +1 WP7 for fun games
3/. I hated tweaking my Touch Cruise and Symbian Phones
4/. I like smooth scrolling.
5/. I really didn't like the icon grid, which is why I sold my Ipod Touch and got a Zune HD in the first place.
6/. The animation speed of Bing Maps was ridiculous on the phone I played with at the T-Mo store.
7/. Not many people have it, not because it's a **** product, but because they just don't know what they're missing. I like quiet brilliance and WP7 is just that.
Quiet brilliance. I just hope for MS and our sakes that that turns into a smash hit for them somewhere down the line.

1. I wanted a different OS. Most of the other OS' seem a bit boring to me.
2. I like being an early adopter. I was with iOS (sort of) and having something that no one else has is pretty nice.
3. The apps are pretty good thus far. I can see myself getting more apps compared to Android.
4. I trust Microsoft more than Google. Mostly because my current laptop (running Windows 7) has not failed me and Google is, well, Google.

I was planning to get a Captivate but I realized that I would waste hours of my time hacking and flashing it and I didn't want to do that anymore. I wanted a phone that had great features and was just a great experience out of the box. The Focus did that for me.

1. Fluid and Intuituve UI
2. Zune
3. All the live stuff
4. Zune
5. UI

z33dev33l said:
Just trying to bring some positivity to the forums.
I bought WP7 because it's got the best music player on the market, a smooth UI, xbox live integration, great games with the promise of even better which is completely believable after seeing such titles as ilomilo, xbox live integration, it's range of hardware selection which though it can't touch android beats out iphones selection, expandable memory, and because overall it's just got the most beautiful UI. It never feels like they took the best from another OS and just improved it.
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you know, i really like it when folks are positive in starting a thread. even mentioning the competition, in a positive way. kudos to you for not stooping.
also, i could have almost bought an ATT product today, except there are so few choices besides the iphone over there. tmo is having terrible connectivity problems in my area, and if there were a non-contract alternative, i -may- just give it a shot (wp7).
again, thanks for the fresh air.

Coming from Winmo6.5 (HTC Touch HD)
1) Wanted something different/New compared to what's out there already. I believe this is the only smartphone OS that has actually been designed in an artistic/consistent kind of way. Other OS' resemble desktops too much and are either too messy/cheap looking and inconsistent (Android) or just look plain and static looking (iOS app-launcher UI). Though, the home and app screen on WP could be better if the background was customisable, as well as offer more themes.
2) Liked the closed ecosystem of iOS (where all apps just work, and no more tweaking required to get the phone to perform smoothly) but wanted hardware choice. Plus I've got the iPad already, and didn't want to buy what is basically the same device.
3) Wanted to adopt a new OS that could become a major player in the smartphone industry.

1. WM 6.5 was not supported anymore
2. UI made the way I like it - look, concept, homescreen, and unified across all of apps - something I hated on other platforms because of design fragmentation
3. Stable and fast
4. Intergrated with Hotmail
5. All the Office (email, docs, OneNote) however this needs to be improved
6. Hope for a great support by MS giant and their promised commitment
7. Integrated Maps, Music, Xbox, Marketplace
I just pointed things which I thought are better than on other OSes.
P.S. I also dream of some OFFLINE apps especially dictionaries.

1. Somehing new.
2. Wife has Android, mates have BB's and iPhones... wanted something different to tell them how much their phones suck compared to mine.
3. Cloud Sync
4. Office & Exchange
5. Beautifull UI design

was due for an upgrade and able to grab a samsung focus for $30 from wally world. i though, why not? i decided it was time to let my N1 go as well as many other google products/services i had been using because i don't like googles stance on net neutrality and them crawling in bed with the government.
surprisingly, i've really enjoyed my focus. the battery life is outstanding, the camera is quite good, the screen looks great, great games, the music player rocks and i love wireless syncing, it's very fast and smooth. i'm looking forward for the bugs to get ironed out, some very necessary features added and the app store to grow. one of the BEST features is that you can simply uninstall all the bloatware crap att or any other carrier puts on there.
i hope the gates clan keeps this os fresh and up to date with some thoughtful innovations.

Why Windows Phone 7 doesn't desperately need more powerful devices this year

I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...

Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.

As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry

I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...

I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/

The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS

I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.

They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.

Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.

Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.

fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.

N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?

Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.

Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.

N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
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I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?

vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.

vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.

Goodbye windows phone?

first of all, I think WP7 OS is great and i have my omnia 7 for about 18months now, so im in a great position to say what i think of it.
for the first time in 18 months, im starting too look at the Android OS. why?
WP7 Hardware STILL dosnt cut it and there not a single true wp7 high end device out there.
examples,
the aging low res
low memory (especially if you live in the UK 8 gb phones really?)
poor GPU (60 fps is the minimum standard and wp7 games seem to be struggling to hit 30 fps. only the games with poor graphics run at 60fps on wp7. its embarrasing. i wouldnt show my android /iphone owning friends these games on my phone.
single core - sure the actual OS generally is nice and smooth ( although mine has definately slowed down recently maybe as im running out of memory?) however try opening PDF files they slow right down and take an age to open
Skydrive, i use skydrive all the time, i log on today and now instead of my usual 25GB i see i now only have 7GB ? whats going on here, skydrive was the only thing keeping my phone running over since i have only 8, ( actually 7GB of storage on my phone........
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish

Read this article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/skydrive-for-windows-now-available-to-download-features-as-promised/
It will give you a link to 'upgrade' your SkyDrive storage back to 25GB. I just did this yesterday for an account, so it should still be working. It also has a link for the new SkyDrive Windows 7 program, which makes SD now on par with DropBox (Better, actually since it now keeps the phone in sync with folders on the computer).

thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?

davidebanks said:
thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?
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I hope they make something like the hardware used for the ONE S.
I was helping my friend get her very first ever smart phone (Lumia 710) yesterday. We were at Car Toys. The sales guy went to the back to get the ONE S to show it off. Granted, I'm in no way passionate about Android, but it is one sexy piece of hardware. Just the right thickness, but a great sturdiness and weight to it. I was really impressed with its feel. Were there no Nokia, I'd go w/ HTC. Samsung's all feel like plastic graham crackers to me.

Single core and all those things, do you really need it or just to say Hey I have dual cores. For me, I don't think dual core is needed.
About the GPU, yes I think the game graphics can be improved by a lot seeing those FPS games on iphone.

To the OP, glad that you have realised and awake about the drawbacks...
Have been using my mozart for 13months++, bought the HTC one X last month,honestly my 1st android device. It is great, don't listen to all those lagging&force close BS...give it a try...no regret on one X...
lol...smoked by WP7???who cares?i can play cut the rope: experiment,angry bird space, highlighting and add notes to my PDF lecture slides(this is the crucial one), cheaper apps and etc....
now my mozart is collecting dusk and work as alarm clock[this is where WP7 excel at (easy task)]

davidebanks said:
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish
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If you like the experience of Windows Phone but want more modern hardware, Windows Phone 8 might be worth looking at.
It will be based on the NT kernel and will support more powerful CPU / GPUs (including multi-core CPUs) and higher screen resolutions.
There are plenty of other threads discussing WP8 (including timing) if you want more information. I'd expect it to be out within 6 months, assuming you're on a 2 year contract.

OP, your post is useless as all your other 232 posts. Hope to never see you again in WP7/Win8 forums (you may also pick up a few andro-stupid-trolls with)

Get a phone to suit your needs end of line.

I'm also leaving windows phone for android.
I've been a huge windows phone supporter (went from windows mobile to windows phone) and i still think metro is the greatest thing on any phone. But i'm tired of not having key features that i find essential for any phone. I mean common, no way to turn off auto rotation? No way to view notifications other than live tiles? No way to lower volume without lowering ring volume? No way to turn off 3G (if you had AT&T in NYC you'd understand why)
These are things i consider very very basic and should be implemented.
I really don't care about the apps. That's not why i'm switching. I'm switching because i have a problem with the OS not having basic functionality.

Hi guys, lets try to keep the forum focused in DEVELOPMENT, in this section for WP7. Thread closed.